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(The Onion)   "Ariel Castro Failed By System"   (theonion.com) divider line 78
    More: Satire, Ariel Castro, prison reform, legal system, rethinks, criminal justice system  
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7557 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Sep 2013 at 8:28 AM (47 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-05 08:07:22 AM
For satire, a lot of that actually isn't wrong.  Not that I give a shiat in this particular case mind you.
 
2013-09-05 08:26:28 AM

nekom: For satire, a lot of that actually isn't wrong.   Not that I give a shiat in this particular case mind you.


For some reason the story of Castro's death somehow compels people to mention that the outcome is fine by them. I saw it yesterday in the various threads here and last night I was out having a pint with friends and they all felt the need to conclude with that sentiment as well.

I have no opinion on it, but it's such a consistent reaction that I can't help but notice it.
 
2013-09-05 08:34:11 AM

Barfmaker: nekom: For satire, a lot of that actually isn't wrong.   Not that I give a shiat in this particular case mind you.

For some reason the story of Castro's death somehow compels people to mention that the outcome is fine by them. I saw it yesterday in the various threads here and last night I was out having a pint with friends and they all felt the need to conclude with that sentiment as well.

I have no opinion on it, but it's such a consistent reaction that I can't help but notice it.


When you do something generally viewed as monstrous then people tend to dehumanized you. Once that happens, even people staunchly opposed to capital punishment tend to get dismissive about you just being dead.

It actually saddens me that he's dead. The guards fell down on their jobs. He should have had a nice long life behind bars where other prisoners could constantly make him feel just like he made those girls feel. He got off easy.
 
2013-09-05 08:34:42 AM

Barfmaker: nekom: For satire, a lot of that actually isn't wrong.   Not that I give a shiat in this particular case mind you.

For some reason the story of Castro's death somehow compels people to mention that the outcome is fine by them. I saw it yesterday in the various threads here and last night I was out having a pint with friends and they all felt the need to conclude with that sentiment as well.

I have no opinion on it, but it's such a consistent reaction that I can't help but notice it.


It's like the people who always say 'I am against the death penalty, but in such and such a case, I feel it is justified'

What that actually means is that they are for the death penalty
 
2013-09-05 08:37:00 AM
Barfmaker:
For some reason the story of Castro's death somehow compels people to mention that the outcome is fine by them. I saw it yesterday in the various threads here and last night I was out having a pint with friends and they all felt the need to conclude with that sentiment as well.

I have no opinion on it, but it's such a consistent reaction that I can't help but notice it.


I think there's a certain threshold where a crime is just so heinous that one can't help but feel the son of a biatch got what he deserved.  If anyone has crossed that threshold, it's Castro.  Hell, he pole vaulted over that line.
 
2013-09-05 08:39:19 AM

MycroftHolmes: Barfmaker: nekom: For satire, a lot of that actually isn't wrong.   Not that I give a shiat in this particular case mind you.

For some reason the story of Castro's death somehow compels people to mention that the outcome is fine by them. I saw it yesterday in the various threads here and last night I was out having a pint with friends and they all felt the need to conclude with that sentiment as well.

I have no opinion on it, but it's such a consistent reaction that I can't help but notice it.

It's like the people who always say 'I am against the death penalty, but in such and such a case, I feel it is justified'

What that actually means is that they are for the death penalty


You can support the idea of capital punishment in certain circumstances without supporting the way we administer it in the US.
 
2013-09-05 08:40:02 AM
Sorry I don't read the Huffington Post .


/DRTFA
 
2013-09-05 08:42:09 AM
I'm not sad that he's dead, but I am slightly pissed off about it. He ran up a huge bill, so to speak, then skipped out on it.
 
2013-09-05 08:42:14 AM

timswar: Barfmaker: nekom: For satire, a lot of that actually isn't wrong.   Not that I give a shiat in this particular case mind you.

For some reason the story of Castro's death somehow compels people to mention that the outcome is fine by them. I saw it yesterday in the various threads here and last night I was out having a pint with friends and they all felt the need to conclude with that sentiment as well.

I have no opinion on it, but it's such a consistent reaction that I can't help but notice it.

When you do something generally viewed as monstrous then people tend to dehumanized you. Once that happens, even people staunchly opposed to capital punishment tend to get dismissive about you just being dead.

It actually saddens me that he's dead. The guards fell down on their jobs. He should have had a nice long life behind bars where other prisoners could constantly make him feel just like he made those girls feel. He got off easy.


In a way I echo both of your sentiments.  It is kind of bittersweet that he couldn't have lived a few more years/decades behind bars just wishing he would die.  For what he did, he did get off way too easy.  It's probably one of those few times even Atheists would be cool with a concept of eternal damnation.
 
2013-09-05 08:42:24 AM
This wass not supposed to happen. It should be investigated fully and responsibilty, if any, ascribed.
 
2013-09-05 08:43:51 AM
GOOD! One less asshole on the planet!
 
2013-09-05 08:44:04 AM

nekom: I think there's a certain threshold where a crime is just so heinous that one can't help but feel the son of a biatch got what he deserved. If anyone has crossed that threshold, it's Castro. Hell, he pole vaulted over that line.


And honestly, we're not talking about a young black kid that got picked up on a drug charge, was given a criminal record, couldn't find a job after that and so ended up in prison again, etc.

The system didn't fail him. He had a great chance to make a life for himself, and he screwed it up. He ended up in prison, and he couldn't face a life of that, so he made his decision. That's really different from being failed by society.
 
2013-09-05 08:46:19 AM
It's a pretty bizarre Onion article. It is very subtle in its humour while being pretty aggressive in its satire. A good proportion of those sentences in the Onion piece could have fit in a real mainstream story about some guy who was eventually found to be innocent but who had killed himself in prison meanwhile.

I'm anti death penalty but have no problem with suicides saving taxpayers big bucks. And I'm always horrified by those stories about innocent people getting locked up let alone raped, killed or suiciding but I don't think there's much doubt about Castro's guilt in this matter.
 
2013-09-05 08:47:52 AM

nekom: Barfmaker:
For some reason the story of Castro's death somehow compels people to mention that the outcome is fine by them. I saw it yesterday in the various threads here and last night I was out having a pint with friends and they all felt the need to conclude with that sentiment as well.

I have no opinion on it, but it's such a consistent reaction that I can't help but notice it.

I think there's a certain threshold where a crime is just so heinous that one can't help but feel the son of a biatch got what he deserved.  If anyone has crossed that threshold, it's Castro.  Hell, he pole vaulted over that line.


I wonder if part of the reason I notice it is because I simply don't give a shiat about Castro or what he did. I understand the story but honestly I have zero feelings about it.

I'm clearly the odd man out, it seems almost everyone else has a visceral reaction to it, however I am utterly unable to give a shiat about it.

I'm not sure why this hasn't touched me at all.
 
2013-09-05 08:48:42 AM
Thing about the Onion...society has gotten so crazy that it's difficult to satirize.
It's almost as though instead of satire being commentary, it's become a goal...to see if that level of herpitude-derpitude cray-cray can be reached.

Survey sez...
"You betcha!"


Dammit all to hell....
 
2013-09-05 08:51:00 AM
One step towards a just society is the separation of revenge from punishment.

His punishment was to live the rest of his natural life in prison. Whether this was excessive is certainly up for debate. Could he have been rehabilitated? Could he have been forced to recompense the girls? Whatever the case, the final judgment was that he would live the rest of his life behind bars away from society.

What many want, though, is revenge for the horrors that he inflicted upon these women. Daily anal rape. Daily beatings. The death penalty by painful means. All of it is driven by the misguided concept of "victims' rights"; that there is something to be gained by forcing upon the monster the legal monstrosities and unlimited viciousness of government. This is satisfying but ultimately brutish and unbecoming of a society that believes itself enlightened and law-bound.

Castro took his life. In this way he has paid the ultimate price for his crime. Putting him in jail for the rest of his life is essentially the same as taking his life, the only question being the duration of the sentence. With Castro dead, justice is served, as that was the ultimate goal of his sentence.
 
2013-09-05 08:51:20 AM
 
2013-09-05 08:52:35 AM
Aussie_As:
I'm anti death penalty but have no problem with suicides saving taxpayers big bucks. And I'm always horrified by those stories about innocent people getting locked up let alone raped, killed or suiciding but I don't think there's much doubt about Castro's guilt in this matter.

I'm anti death penalty as well, for a number of reasons, but I also feel that he got an easy out.  Not that there's much you can do to stop that.  What, suicide watch for life?  No bed sheet?  He could bang his head against the wall.  Padded walls?  He could bite his wrists and bleed out.  What then, restrain him forever?  As a practical matter, if someone is able bodied, desperate to die and doesn't mind suffering a little pain to do it, there's really not much you can do to stop it.
 
2013-09-05 08:53:06 AM
i.imgur.com
 
2013-09-05 08:56:21 AM
I feel the same about this as I did when Anderson and Dahmer were beaten to death.

At least I no longer have to share their air.

If I had been his guard, I'd have offered to help with his noose.
 
2013-09-05 08:58:59 AM
Sure wish they had thought to put him on the chain gang busting rocks.  Do we not do that anymore?
 
2013-09-05 09:00:53 AM
I think the important thing is that we've achieved just enough wrongs to make a right!
 
2013-09-05 09:02:38 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: One step towards a just society is the separation of revenge from punishment.


Well, what's the purpose of punishment?  I suppose it's two-fold.  First and foremost a person like him could NEVER be released because he would continue to pose a danger to other young women.  So keeping violent criminals out of society for the protection of the rest of us is paramount, I would think.  Second of course to serve as a deterrent to others who might otherwise do something like this but fear prison.  I suppose rehabilitation should also be a lot more of the focus than it is, not so much in this case but other cases.  Say some 19 year old steals a car, his time in prison should be spent learning how to become a productive member of society so that when he's out he can function in it.
 
2013-09-05 09:06:05 AM

Barfmaker: For some reason the story of Castro's death somehow compels people to mention that the outcome is fine by them. I saw it yesterday in the various threads here and last night I was out having a pint with friends and they all felt the need to conclude with that sentiment as well.

I have no opinion on it, but it's such a consistent reaction that I can't help but notice it.


I've noticed, occasionally, this type of thing happens all the time. People take these definitive, hard-lined stances about an issue only to back off at the last second, it seems. It's bad because it undermines their own arguments and prevents them from establishing any sort of clear point, not that there's anything wrong with that necessarily. But if someone is bothering to voice their opinion about a controversial topic they need to be prepared to defend it and stick by it with a degree of conviction, don't you think? Just sayin'.
 
2013-09-05 09:12:34 AM

nekom: AverageAmericanGuy: One step towards a just society is the separation of revenge from punishment.

Well, what's the purpose of punishment?  I suppose it's two-fold.  First and foremost a person like him could NEVER be released because he would continue to pose a danger to other young women.  So keeping violent criminals out of society for the protection of the rest of us is paramount, I would think.  Second of course to serve as a deterrent to others who might otherwise do something like this but fear prison.  I suppose rehabilitation should also be a lot more of the focus than it is, not so much in this case but other cases.  Say some 19 year old steals a car, his time in prison should be spent learning how to become a productive member of society so that when he's out he can function in it.


The deterrent effect must come from the nature of the punishment itself and not from an exaggeration of the punishment by means of artificially imposed harshness. A punishment should put the criminal in a situation worse than he would otherwise be in had he not committed the crime. In this way, I think the Swedish system of bungalows and lax rules is wrong as it creates a better situation for criminals than if they were to still be on the street. Criminals should not be encouraged to commit crimes to get into jail.

An even-handed and just punishment structure would be enough deterrent.
 
2013-09-05 09:13:17 AM

nekom: For satire, a lot of that actually isn't wrong.  Not that I give a shiat in this particular case mind you.


thatsthejoke.jpg
 
2013-09-05 09:14:15 AM
Satire?  Maybe.  Funny?  Definitely not.
 
2013-09-05 09:18:58 AM
Sounds like a leftist off this site wrote that.
 
2013-09-05 09:24:07 AM

timswar: It actually saddens me that he's dead. The guards fell down on their jobs. He should have had a nice long life behind bars where other prisoners could constantly make him feel just like he made those girls feel. He got off easy.


A lot of the "positive" reactions I've read of his death say he's now suffering/rotting/burning in hell, without considering that maybe death is the end, and he did get off easy.
 
2013-09-05 09:27:13 AM

QuesoDelicioso: I'm not sad that he's dead, but I am slightly pissed off about it. He ran up a huge bill, so to speak, then skipped out on it.


In what universe do you think he was EVER going to pay it?  He was sentenced to life in prison plus 1000 years.  Even if he made it that far, he would not make enough money in the prison laundry to pay back one cent of what  he cost the taxpayers.

In effect, he saved us all a LOT of money.  It's a shame he can't suffer an longer.  But what are you gonna do?
 
2013-09-05 09:27:18 AM
Think how many millions he just saved the taxpayers by cutting his retirement short.
 
2013-09-05 09:28:58 AM

Barfmaker: I have no opinion on it, but it's such a consistent reaction that I can't help but notice it.


I'm anti-death penalty in the vast majority of cases.  If there isn't concrete physical evidence - and I mean clear video or something of that nature, or the fact that they found three girls in this guys house - I'm against it.  There's just too many instances where it has been applied incorrectly or unjustly.

In this case, I would have been in favor.
 
2013-09-05 09:29:07 AM
I fail to see the satire. It looks to me like the article was dead-balls-on. That article would be appropriate in Onion or The New York Times.
 
2013-09-05 09:31:31 AM
This has rekindled my lack of interest.
 
2013-09-05 09:37:16 AM
This has to be a first for me. I hadn't heard that he'd killed himself.

I had to learn the news from...The Onion.

Bizzaro World
 
2013-09-05 09:42:08 AM

WinoRhino: Barfmaker: For some reason the story of Castro's death somehow compels people to mention that the outcome is fine by them. I saw it yesterday in the various threads here and last night I was out having a pint with friends and they all felt the need to conclude with that sentiment as well.

I have no opinion on it, but it's such a consistent reaction that I can't help but notice it.

I've noticed, occasionally, this type of thing happens all the time. People take these definitive, hard-lined stances about an issue only to back off at the last second, it seems. It's bad because it undermines their own arguments and prevents them from establishing any sort of clear point, not that there's anything wrong with that necessarily. But if someone is bothering to voice their opinion about a controversial topic they need to be prepared to defend it and stick by it with a degree of conviction, don't you think? Just sayin'.


This...this is beautiful.

/unequivocally
 
2013-09-05 09:43:01 AM
There is a large difference between being put to death and allowing someone to take his own life.  I am 100% in favor of the latter, thus my complete lack of emotion over the news of Ariel Castro's passing.
 
2013-09-05 09:51:59 AM

nekom: Aussie_As:
I'm anti death penalty but have no problem with suicides saving taxpayers big bucks. And I'm always horrified by those stories about innocent people getting locked up let alone raped, killed or suiciding but I don't think there's much doubt about Castro's guilt in this matter.

I'm anti death penalty as well, for a number of reasons, but I also feel that he got an easy out.  Not that there's much you can do to stop that.  What, suicide watch for life?  No bed sheet?  He could bang his head against the wall.  Padded walls?  He could bite his wrists and bleed out.  What then, restrain him forever?  As a practical matter, if someone is able bodied, desperate to die and doesn't mind suffering a little pain to do it, there's really not much you can do to stop it.


I was going to write 'Yeah but the taxpayer funds spent on the revenge trip could surely be better spent on services for the wider public' but then I had a hit of weed and saw clearly and realised it's government we're talking about so any savings would have gone on hiring temps to do government work while public servants slack off or on wasteful spending right up to strippers and booze for management lunch hour. So my 'saving taxpayer dollars' line is, I realise in my stoned wisdom, quite wrong.

Being a taxpayer is farking frustrating some days. But then I remember I've actually been paid to do government workers jobs for them at times in my career and calm down again.
 
2013-09-05 10:06:02 AM

timswar: It actually saddens me that he's dead. The guards fell down on their jobs. He should have had a nice long life behind bars where other prisoners could constantly make him feel just like he made those girls feel. He got off easy.


While I agree with your sentiment, upon reflection it isn't any better that he is alive or dead. Admit the fact that you think about him only when he is mentioned. His long illustrious life in jail is more an idea that you entertain in the abstract. What really matters more than anything is that he can never, ever do this to another young lady.
 
2013-09-05 10:06:43 AM

timswar: Barfmaker: nekom: For satire, a lot of that actually isn't wrong.   Not that I give a shiat in this particular case mind you.

For some reason the story of Castro's death somehow compels people to mention that the outcome is fine by them. I saw it yesterday in the various threads here and last night I was out having a pint with friends and they all felt the need to conclude with that sentiment as well.

I have no opinion on it, but it's such a consistent reaction that I can't help but notice it.

When you do something generally viewed as monstrous then people tend to dehumanized you. Once that happens, even people staunchly opposed to capital punishment tend to get dismissive about you just being dead.

It actually saddens me that he's dead. The guards fell down on their jobs. He should have had a nice long life behind bars where other prisoners could constantly make him feel just like he made those girls feel. He got off easy.


When your deal is raping imprisoned girls, getting off easy is merely a by-product.

I suppose it's a sign of something that people feel compelled to explain why they condone the outcome of sloppy guard work. On the other hand, Castro took the libertarian option and freed himself from the shackles of Big Gubmint, so I imagine feelings are confused on the matter.
 
2013-09-05 10:07:54 AM
Really, Onion? You guys don't get enough hate mail from stupid people already?

What's the over-under on some outraged right-winger quoting this as a real story? I give it two days.
 
2013-09-05 10:07:54 AM
anyone who thinks death is punishment obviously hasn't died before.

Those jail guards let that assfark off the hook, he beat em all. Kidnapping, rape- he gets away with it now, basically.
 
2013-09-05 10:07:58 AM

Krowdaddy Chixdiggit: GOOD! One less fewer asshole on the planet!


I'm willing to step up to the plate here.
 
2013-09-05 10:12:49 AM
For all the philosophical or moral arguments to be made, all I can see is the pragmatic argument. He's no longer a problem. The victims nor the public needn't ever bother themselves over him again. Killing himself may be the only decent thing he's done in over a decade.

I don't say this a this as if it's supposed to be a matter of policy, I can't say that I held any strong opinion on execution vs lifetime imprisonment in this case. But, at the end of the day, all "should haves" aside, what "is" is that he did something terrible, displayed he had no place in society, and at the least managed to accomplish his removal in the most economical method possible.
 
2013-09-05 10:16:26 AM
Took the cowards way out

I wonder how he is enjoying the other side?
 
2013-09-05 10:22:57 AM

asquian: For all the philosophical or moral arguments to be made, all I can see is the pragmatic argument. He's no longer a problem. The victims nor the public needn't ever bother themselves over him again. Killing himself may be the only decent thing he's done in over a decade.

I don't say this a this as if it's supposed to be a matter of policy, I can't say that I held any strong opinion on execution vs lifetime imprisonment in this case. But, at the end of the day, all "should haves" aside, what "is" is that he did something terrible, displayed he had no place in society, and at the least managed to accomplish his removal in the most economical method possible.


You're absolutely right, he's done living now and as has been pointed out in the last thread, at least he'll not resurface for interviews or anniversary specials, so perhaps the victims will now be able to move on with their lives easier.  Also, as my grandmother pointed out, at least now Amanda can tell her daughter that her father is dead.  Of course some day she may find out the truth, but a child doesn't need to grapple with such things.

I guess at the end of the day, the only thing really debatable is just how far prison guards should be expected to go to prevent suicides.  Checking on him every half hour is going pretty far as it is, but as I said earlier, if someone really wants to die, it's REALLY tough to keep them from doing it.
 
2013-09-05 10:37:40 AM

durbnpoisn: QuesoDelicioso: I'm not sad that he's dead, but I am slightly pissed off about it. He ran up a huge bill, so to speak, then skipped out on it.

In what universe do you think he was EVER going to pay it?  He was sentenced to life in prison plus 1000 years.  Even if he made it that far, he would not make enough money in the prison laundry to pay back one cent of what  he cost the taxpayers.

In effect, he saved us all a LOT of money.  It's a shame he can't suffer an longer.  But what are you gonna do?


Not much, obviously. I'm only notionally pissed about it, really. Doesn't affect my daily life much, but if I were one of the victims I imagine I'd be wailing and gnashing teeth.
 
2013-09-05 10:38:58 AM

Barfmaker: I'm clearly the odd man out, it seems almost everyone else has a visceral reaction to it, however I am utterly unable to give a shiat about it. I'm not sure why this hasn't touched me at all.


Awww...it's because you're autistic, silly goose.
 
2013-09-05 10:40:45 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: One step towards a just society is the separation of revenge from punishment.

His punishment was to live the rest of his natural life in prison. Whether this was excessive is certainly up for debate. Could he have been rehabilitated? Could he have been forced to recompense the girls? Whatever the case, the final judgment was that he would live the rest of his life behind bars away from society.

What many want, though, is revenge for the horrors that he inflicted upon these women. Daily anal rape. Daily beatings. The death penalty by painful means. All of it is driven by the misguided concept of "victims' rights"; that there is something to be gained by forcing upon the monster the legal monstrosities and unlimited viciousness of government. This is satisfying but ultimately brutish and unbecoming of a society that believes itself enlightened and law-bound.

Castro took his life. In this way he has paid the ultimate price for his crime. Putting him in jail for the rest of his life is essentially the same as taking his life, the only question being the duration of the sentence. With Castro dead, justice is served, as that was the ultimate goal of his sentence.


Isn't all punishment revenge? and what is wrong with that?  Seriously I am asking, I have always wondered why people believe they are necessarily different.  Even the most lenient punishment is treatment of the perpetrator in response to his actions that are disagreed with.  Isn't that revenge?
 
2013-09-05 10:43:14 AM
and no, I am not comparing beating the crap out of somebody for dissing you with taking away your right to drive because you can't manage to stay sober.
 
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