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(The New York Times)   Surveillance changes behavior. Ceiling cat unavailable for comment   (bits.blogs.nytimes.com ) divider line
    More: Obvious, casual dining, case study, fields of study, 39th state, behavioral economics, academic standards, National Catholic Reporter, cats  
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3701 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Sep 2013 at 9:25 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-05 11:41:40 AM  

Cybernetic: lockers: Being paranoid isn't normal, but when you have proof they are indeed watching you, being paranoid is expected.

If you know you're actually being watched, then it's the polar opposite of paranoia. Paranoia (by definition) involves beliefs that are irrational and even delusional.


It is expected you have irrational fears if you understand the gravity of US spying. The chances may be low, therefore little risk, that they will be used against you. The consequences if they do are enormous. That's the point.
 
2013-09-05 11:43:11 AM  

Wangiss: Even with no "motivation," rich people steal, too.  There's greed.


That is the most succinct explanation of why Wall St. and our banking system is a cesspool that I have heard of late.
 
2013-09-05 11:45:39 AM  

Madbassist1: PizzaJedi81: Working in the restaurant industry, I can see both sides of this argument.

Also, subs, way to miss an easy Schrodinger joke.

Seconded.


It might have been a Schrodinger joke until you read it.
 
2013-09-05 11:46:34 AM  

Prophet of Loss: Wangiss: Even with no "motivation," rich people steal, too.  There's greed.

That is the most succinct explanation of why Wall St. and our banking system is a cesspool that I have heard of late.


Greed could be considered a form of motivation.
 
2013-09-05 11:51:20 AM  

RTOGUY: Frederick: e noted; an employee with good pay and benefits has little or no motivation for fraud and/or theft

Not always true. My wife took over as head chef at a country club and it pays their servers not server wage which is less than minimum, or minimum wage, but an actual respectable wage plus tips. Many of the servers have worked there for 10 years or more because they can take home after taxes $700/week not including their cash tips or extra income from the banquets or wedding functions. The first thing she did when she got there was go through the old inventory sheets and found that people had been scamming entire cases of chicken wings, entire prime ribs, cases of wine etc. When she brought it up to the director of operations he said it had been like that since he had started and it was just how restaurants ran. She had the order codes changed so that servers couldn't do refunds or void items without management approval and she installed locks on the fridges and freezers and a camera to monitor the backroom. The result was that immediately the profits started trending up since the inventory makes sense and the food and beverage department actually turned a profit for the first time since it opened. Most people are honest but there will always be people that will see a case of wine as just a nice little extra for putting in that three hours of overtime or a box of chicken wings as payment for not having time to go to the grocery store before work.


...
'the director of operations he said it had been like that since he had started'

Sounds like it was the director with his hand in the cooler.
 
2013-09-05 11:55:54 AM  

pounddawg: Prophet of Loss: Wangiss: Even with no "motivation," rich people steal, too.  There's greed.

That is the most succinct explanation of why Wall St. and our banking system is a cesspool that I have heard of late.

Greed could be considered a form of motivation.


True, but I qualify that motivation as "not even remotely justifiable" as a reason to steal.

If a homeless man steals my apple, I am angry but can understand as I have been hungry before. When the same apple is stolen by a man pushing an apple cart, I have no understanding of his actions. Why would someone who already has so much take what little I have?
 
2013-09-05 12:01:35 PM  
Where is Rick Romero when you need him?
 
2013-09-05 12:14:17 PM  
( ... )
 
2013-09-05 12:16:32 PM  

Arsten: The problem is that it's easier for management to brand everyone a crook than it is to balance between the needs of the company and the respect of the employee. Basically, the true litmus of whether your employees are going to rob you deaf, dumb, and blind is the culture at the work place.


Ageed! 
Unfortunately it's that "easier for management" that is often the crux.  Being "Invested" helps but not just monetarily (i.e. paid OT or sales bonus etc.) if the people your working for are respectful and treat you like a human being rather then "just an employee" it makes a world of difference and this does go back to your comment on the culture at the work place.
I am not a fan of the constant surveillance and camera's everywhere mentality. Surveillance in areas where a crime may occur such as a cash register or a blind spot in a store or and entrance/exit way I can understand but more often once they get one system in it's often followed by another and then another and yet there never seems to be one watching those who are watching again bringing about the mistrust and even more so when the monitors are locked in the managers office or being watch by the owners from their homes.  I've seen and have been part of lawsuits that came from this and it's misuse by management (mostly from an employee's wardrobe Vs' camera angle and saved/posted images from it then from actual footage of an employee's theft or misconduct).
 
2013-09-05 12:17:34 PM  
Mugging someone changes their behavior as well...they will be more cautious, stay away from dangerous areas, etc.

But is it right? Ends justifying means and all that. Will my kids have a better life under a surveillance state? or just a 'safer' one?
 
2013-09-05 12:25:38 PM  

IdBeCrazyIf: Wangiss: But hey, two consulting fees.

I will not deny that very often my livelihood is dependent on stupidity


Well my friend, you've chosen wisely and are set for life.
 
2013-09-05 12:29:38 PM  

sunnewswebguy: Mugging someone changes their behavior as well...they will be more cautious, stay away from dangerous areas, etc.

But is it right? Ends justifying means and all that. Will my kids have a better life under a surveillance state? or just a 'safer' one?


There is no validity in this comparison, but, okay.
 
2013-09-05 12:36:02 PM  
Frederick: "I find it telling that the emerging industry solution is draconian tactics to persuade a more beneficial outcome for the employer as opposed to improving wages for the employee."

... that's *always* the industry solution: whatever benefits the business owners.
Sometimes their plans align with good things for employees, sometimes they don't.  Mostly they don't care.
They generally don't even consider the impact on employees until they're figuring out how to deliver/spin the news.

e.g. pervasive monitoring being sold as "helping the employees succeed".
 
2013-09-05 12:39:55 PM  
I actually handle a lot of CCTV footage (I work security for a major trucking company). The amount of bullshiat damage claims outside drivers have made resolved through our cameras are staggering. Employee theft is also always a problem. People are scum and will steal anything not nailed down. From your lunch, to pallets to actual farking freight.

If you run a business and don't have a CCTV system that works, you're a moron.

/every vow you break, every claim you stake I'll be watching you
 
2013-09-05 12:42:52 PM  

Epicanis: Madbassist1: PizzaJedi81: Working in the restaurant industry, I can see both sides of this argument.

Also, subs, way to miss an easy Schrodinger joke.

Seconded.

It might have been a Schrodinger joke until you read it.


DAMN YOOOUUU!
Shakes tiny fist

 
2013-09-05 12:44:05 PM  

Frederick: Interesting subject regarding the effect of surveillance on employee theft and fraud.  Some thoughts:

Cause (FTA):
"Most of the restaurant industry pays its servers low wages and they depend on tips."

Effect (FTA):
"Employee turnover is high. In that environment, a certain amount of theft has long been regarded as a normal part of the business."

I find it telling that the emerging industry solution is draconian tactics to persuade a more beneficial outcome for the employer as opposed to improving wages for the employee.


FTA:
"Knowing they were being monitored, the servers not only pulled back on any unethical practices, but also channeled their efforts into, say, prompting customers to have that dessert or a second beer, raising revenue for the restaurant and tips for themselves."

As corporate capitalism has shown over decades, increased revenues for businesses do not translate to employee's benefits -only to business profits.  The beneficial effect of the surveillance to the employees was in the form of tips only and likely minimal at best.


It should be noted; an employee with good pay and benefits has little or no motivation for fraud and/or theft.

/The converse is also true.


kinda yes kinda no.

people steal for all sorts of reasons from all pay grades.  some are paid well by your standard or mine, but they feel somehow slighted & justified in their theft thinking the 'deserve' it.

i would also suggest that those paid the bare minimum may be less likely to steal as they have fewer if any options if they get caught, whereas a higher level employee might be able to move on to another gig with less consequence.
 
2013-09-05 12:51:58 PM  

i.imgur.com

RIP Jeremy Bentham

 
2013-09-05 02:22:22 PM  

ikanreed: wildcardjack: I thought that "Reality TV" proved that a thousand times over. 90% of the drama on that Detroit pawn shop show is because there's a camera for the AW's in the crowd. it's fictionalized drama.

If you've ever watched reality TV and thought to yourself "This is how real people actually act," you are the sucker.


Yeah, not only are the owners terrible actors playing up their feuding for the camera, the "customers" are even worse actors getting angry over nothing and making a huge scene just so they can be "escorted" out of the store, where the owners then follow them out and continue to engage them. It's really bad drama in a really bad show for really bad people to feel like they are superior just because they don't tend to take a dump in the middle of a store (most of the time).
 
2013-09-05 05:13:28 PM  

silvervial: ikanreed: wildcardjack: I thought that "Reality TV" proved that a thousand times over. 90% of the drama on that Detroit pawn shop show is because there's a camera for the AW's in the crowd. it's fictionalized drama.

If you've ever watched reality TV and thought to yourself "This is how real people actually act," you are the sucker.

Yeah, not only are the owners terrible actors playing up their feuding for the camera, the "customers" are even worse actors getting angry over nothing and making a huge scene just so they can be "escorted" out of the store, where the owners then follow them out and continue to engage them. It's really bad drama in a really bad show for really bad people to feel like they are superior just because they don't tend to take a dump in the middle of a store (most of the time).


The complaints on Kitchen Nightmares are always so comical.  "This is raw; what the hell?" "This table is so filthy" "There's a spot on my glass" "It's loud in here"
I'll admit to having complaints like this, but usually I keep them to myself.  Often it doesn't even deter me from eating at a given place.  But the sheer quantity and persnicketude the complaints encouraged by the presence of The Chef are is ludicrous.  Everyone speaks up.  That's not normal.
 
2013-09-05 05:29:25 PM  
People in my company think that we have tattlers in our vans. They fired one of the drivers because he tried to park a van behind a dumpster so he could sleep. They caught him on video twice doing this in seperate locations. After that all the drivers thought the vans were bugged.
 
2013-09-05 06:49:42 PM  
It's simple capitalism. If there is something in it for them, they work hard for you. If not, they work for themselves.
 
2013-09-05 07:43:12 PM  

Prophet of Loss: pounddawg: Prophet of Loss: Wangiss: Even with no "motivation," rich people steal, too.  There's greed.

That is the most succinct explanation of why Wall St. and our banking system is a cesspool that I have heard of late.

Greed could be considered a form of motivation.

True, but I qualify that motivation as "not even remotely justifiable" as a reason to steal.

If a homeless man steals my apple, I am angry but can understand as I have been hungry before. When the same apple is stolen by a man pushing an apple cart, I have no understanding of his actions. Why would someone who already has so much take what little I have?


media.onsugar.com
 
2013-09-06 01:37:57 AM  
Working in a drive thru liquor store has its dangers. Not long ago we had the cops visit and tell us we needed two more security cameras out the front - good advice one would think, number plates are helpful to investigations. Guess where the owner put the two new cameras - out the back in the storeroom and delivery area -> no increase in security, but when I wish to have a smoke or read the paper for a bit, I now have to go and hide behind the wine racks. Not because I am not allowed to do these things every now and then, but because the millionaire owner wastes many hours a week of his time fast forwarding through hours and hours of video to see what staff are up too and I just do not like being spyed on. So the cameras just made me sneakier and lowered my morale,
 
2013-09-06 01:48:46 AM  

PiffMan420: I actually handle a lot of CCTV footage (I work security for a major trucking company). The amount of bullshiat damage claims outside drivers have made resolved through our cameras are staggering. Employee theft is also always a problem. People are scum and will steal anything not nailed down. From your lunch, to pallets to actual farking freight.

If you run a business and don't have a CCTV system that works, you're a moron.

/every vow you break, every claim you stake I'll be watching you


That made me remember the day I got to work and had the pleasure of watching the footage of a balaclava clad punk (who borrowed a ladder from a nearby equipment hire place) stealing our outside security camera - it reminded me of the old military adage, obstacles are only useful "if covered by view or fire".
 
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