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(The New York Times)   Surveillance changes behavior. Ceiling cat unavailable for comment   (bits.blogs.nytimes.com) divider line 74
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3679 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Sep 2013 at 9:25 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-05 02:46:41 AM  
Interesting subject regarding the effect of surveillance on employee theft and fraud.  Some thoughts:

Cause (FTA):
"Most of the restaurant industry pays its servers low wages and they depend on tips."

Effect (FTA):
"Employee turnover is high. In that environment, a certain amount of theft has long been regarded as a normal part of the business."

I find it telling that the emerging industry solution is draconian tactics to persuade a more beneficial outcome for the employer as opposed to improving wages for the employee.


FTA:
"Knowing they were being monitored, the servers not only pulled back on any unethical practices, but also channeled their efforts into, say, prompting customers to have that dessert or a second beer, raising revenue for the restaurant and tips for themselves."

As corporate capitalism has shown over decades, increased revenues for businesses do not translate to employee's benefits -only to business profits.  The beneficial effect of the surveillance to the employees was in the form of tips only and likely minimal at best.


It should be noted; an employee with good pay and benefits has little or no motivation for fraud and/or theft.

/The converse is also true.
 
2013-09-05 08:33:06 AM  
easygfree.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-09-05 08:45:00 AM  
The office seekers were asked whether New York City should have more surveillance cameras. Six of the seven, card-carrying liberals all, replied without hesitation, yes. (Only Anthony Weiner said no.)

Weiner prefers to do his own surveillance.
 
2013-09-05 09:26:54 AM  
Wow, way to report on something we've known since 1791.
 
2013-09-05 09:29:05 AM  
i184.photobucket.com
 
2013-09-05 09:32:13 AM  
media.avclub.com

It's part of the arrangement.
 
2013-09-05 09:32:18 AM  

Frederick: I find it telling that the emerging industry solution is draconian tactics to persuade a more beneficial outcome for the employer as opposed to improving wages for the employee.


I do consulting work from time to time and on this one contract I was brought in to consult on designing and implementing a web filter. I offered a design and resultant set of policies but was told it wasn't strict enough. I mean I filtered out the usual you know violence, criminal stuff, proxy... you know typical stuff that could create a liability issue.

Anyway this client in particular said they wanted the internet locked down tighter than a drum and to only allow enough time to use it during their half hour breaks. I tried to explain to them that in this day and age it wouldn't change anything, people would just use their phones instead then and that very likely they would see productivity go down. They would have none of it, so I did what the customer wanted.

Sure enough, six months later they called me back in to change the policy to something much much looser.
 
2013-09-05 09:32:42 AM  
Yeah, it makes it easier to them to eventually tattoo numbers on you and then send you off to a camp.

Have fun with your land of the free, home of the pants wetting cowards.
 
2013-09-05 09:34:00 AM  

reillan: Wow, way to report on something we've known since 1791.


1791 referring to the Panopticon, I'll wager?
Morals reformed-health preserved-industry invigorated-instruction diffused-public burdens lightened-Economy seated, as it were, upon a rock
 
2013-09-05 09:37:11 AM  
Being paranoid isn't normal, but when you have proof they are indeed watching you, being paranoid is expected.
 
2013-09-05 09:39:57 AM  

Barnstormer: reillan: Wow, way to report on something we've known since 1791.

1791 referring to the Panopticon, I'll wager?
Morals reformed-health preserved-industry invigorated-instruction diffused-public burdens lightened-Economy seated, as it were, upon a rock


I'm glad someone got it :)
 
2013-09-05 09:51:57 AM  
www.rickey.org
 
2013-09-05 09:52:13 AM  
Working in the restaurant industry, I can see both sides of this argument.

Also, subs, way to miss an easy Schrodinger joke.
 
2013-09-05 09:56:02 AM  
Next up: do drivers slow down when they see a police car ahead?

Duh
 
2013-09-05 10:09:22 AM  
upload.wikimedia.org

Jeremy Bentham agrees.
 
2013-09-05 10:27:05 AM  
So, from a societal/civilization stand point, does the "knowing you're being watched" facilitate better behavior, or just obedience?

If they informed the servers that they were now getting paid 7% more because revenue increased, would the servers have been trained to do better and therefore view the constant surveillance as a good thing overall?

How does this fit in to a Big Brother is Watching society? Or a God is watching society? If individuals see personal benefit, will they then justify the surveillance?
 
GBB
2013-09-05 10:27:31 AM  
Surveillance changes behavior?   Isn't the the entire premise of creating an omnipotent god, or Santa Claus?
 
2013-09-05 10:29:06 AM  

IdBeCrazyIf: Frederick: I find it telling that the emerging industry solution is draconian tactics to persuade a more beneficial outcome for the employer as opposed to improving wages for the employee.

I do consulting work from time to time and on this one contract I was brought in to consult on designing and implementing a web filter. I offered a design and resultant set of policies but was told it wasn't strict enough. I mean I filtered out the usual you know violence, criminal stuff, proxy... you know typical stuff that could create a liability issue.

Anyway this client in particular said they wanted the internet locked down tighter than a drum and to only allow enough time to use it during their half hour breaks. I tried to explain to them that in this day and age it wouldn't change anything, people would just use their phones instead then and that very likely they would see productivity go down. They would have none of it, so I did what the customer wanted.

Sure enough, six months later they called me back in to change the policy to something much much looser.


But hey, two consulting fees.
 
2013-09-05 10:31:19 AM  
If you want to watch me scratch my balls that's on you.
 
2013-09-05 10:32:18 AM  

GBB: Surveillance changes behavior?   Isn't the the entire premise of creating an omnipotent god, or Santa Claus?


It might help explain the meme influence loop, at least.
 
2013-09-05 10:35:22 AM  

Frederick: e noted; an employee with good pay and benefits has little or no motivation for fraud and/or theft


Not always true. My wife took over as head chef at a country club and it pays their servers not server wage which is less than minimum, or minimum wage, but an actual respectable wage plus tips. Many of the servers have worked there for 10 years or more because they can take home after taxes $700/week not including their cash tips or extra income from the banquets or wedding functions. The first thing she did when she got there was go through the old inventory sheets and found that people had been scamming entire cases of chicken wings, entire prime ribs, cases of wine etc. When she brought it up to the director of operations he said it had been like that since he had started and it was just how restaurants ran. She had the order codes changed so that servers couldn't do refunds or void items without management approval and she installed locks on the fridges and freezers and a camera to monitor the backroom. The result was that immediately the profits started trending up since the inventory makes sense and the food and beverage department actually turned a profit for the first time since it opened. Most people are honest but there will always be people that will see a case of wine as just a nice little extra for putting in that three hours of overtime or a box of chicken wings as payment for not having time to go to the grocery store before work.
 
2013-09-05 10:36:31 AM  

icebergcomics: So, from a societal/civilization stand point, does the "knowing you're being watched" facilitate better behavior, or just obedience?


Dunno. But it does work.
 
2013-09-05 10:37:54 AM  
I thought that "Reality TV" proved that a thousand times over. 90% of the drama on that Detroit pawn shop show is because there's a camera for the AW's in the crowd.
 
2013-09-05 10:42:08 AM  

RTOGUY: ays true. My wife took over as head chef at a country club and it pays their servers not server wage which is less than minimum, or minimum wage, but an actual respectable wage plus tips. Many of the servers have worked there for 10 years or more because they can take home after taxes $700/week not including their cash tips or extra income from the banquets or wedding functions. The first thing she did when she got there was go through the old inventory sheets and found that people had been scamming entire cases of chicken wings, entire prime ribs, cases of wine etc. When she brought it up to the director of operations he said it had been like that since he had started and it was just how restaurants ran. She had the order codes changed so that servers couldn't do refunds or void items without management approval and she installed locks on the fridges and freezers and a camera to monitor the backroom. The result was that immediately the profits started trending up since the inventory makes sense and the food and beverage department actually turned a profit for the first time since it opened. Most people are honest but there will always be people that will see a case of wine as just a nice little extra for putting in that three hours of overtime or a box of chicken wings as payment for not having time to go to the grocery store before work.


See also Act Three of "This American Life" episode "See No Evil"

In the 1970s, Dave Kestenbaum's cousin Dan Weiss got promoted from stocker to gift shop manager at the Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts in Washington DC. It was a good job... except for the fact that the place was bleeding cash because of apparent embezzlement. The gift shop staff? Almost all senior citizen volunteers. Dave is a reporter with NPR's Planet Money.
 
2013-09-05 10:42:50 AM  

RTOGUY: Frederick: e noted; an employee with good pay and benefits has little or no motivation for fraud and/or theft

Not always true. My wife took over as head chef at a country club and it pays their servers not server wage which is less than minimum, or minimum wage, but an actual respectable wage plus tips. Many of the servers have worked there for 10 years or more because they can take home after taxes $700/week not including their cash tips or extra income from the banquets or wedding functions. The first thing she did when she got there was go through the old inventory sheets and found that people had been scamming entire cases of chicken wings, entire prime ribs, cases of wine etc. When she brought it up to the director of operations he said it had been like that since he had started and it was just how restaurants ran. She had the order codes changed so that servers couldn't do refunds or void items without management approval and she installed locks on the fridges and freezers and a camera to monitor the backroom. The result was that immediately the profits started trending up since the inventory makes sense and the food and beverage department actually turned a profit for the first time since it opened. Most people are honest but there will always be people that will see a case of wine as just a nice little extra for putting in that three hours of overtime or a box of chicken wings as payment for not having time to go to the grocery store before work.


Yes to all of that.  My uncle served at a country club and would bring home $6000 in December, $4000 most other months.  It's an excellent career if you know your wines and have the right demeanor.  The most skillful waitstaff can make even more than that.  Don't feel bad for a 60-year-old guy working the tables at a fancy restaurant.  He's made more money, eaten better food, and drank finer wine than most people ever will.

Even with no "motivation," rich people steal, too.  There's greed, there's "what can I get away with," and there's "look how clever I am!" And there's Marie Schrader.
 
2013-09-05 10:44:56 AM  

wildcardjack: I thought that "Reality TV" proved that a thousand times over. 90% of the drama on that Detroit pawn shop show is because there's a camera for the AW's in the crowd.

it's fictionalized drama.

If you've ever watched reality TV and thought to yourself "This is how real people actually act," you are the sucker.
 
2013-09-05 10:48:34 AM  

Wangiss: But hey, two consulting fees.


I will not deny that very often my livelihood is dependent on stupidity
 
GBB
2013-09-05 10:49:26 AM  

IdBeCrazyIf: Frederick: I find it telling that the emerging industry solution is draconian tactics to persuade a more beneficial outcome for the employer as opposed to improving wages for the employee.

I do consulting work from time to time and on this one contract I was brought in to consult on designing and implementing a web filter. I offered a design and resultant set of policies but was told it wasn't strict enough. I mean I filtered out the usual you know violence, criminal stuff, proxy... you know typical stuff that could create a liability issue.

Anyway this client in particular said they wanted the internet locked down tighter than a drum and to only allow enough time to use it during their half hour breaks. I tried to explain to them that in this day and age it wouldn't change anything, people would just use their phones instead then and that very likely they would see productivity go down. They would have none of it, so I did what the customer wanted.

Sure enough, six months later they called me back in to change the policy to something much much looser.


I work as a dispatcher in law enforcement.  Our IT dept subscribes to WebSense and has it set to "China".  Their reasoning makes a little sense: they want us focused on answering 911 calls in a timely manner, don't want us to be distracted when calls for service pop up on our monitors, and management wants to limit liability when shat meets fan.   The only issues with this is that when we need legitimate access to sites, many times innocuous, it turns out to be blocked.  No one has any problems with social media being blocked, but it makes no sense that when we try to get onto a neighboring police department's website, it's blocked.   Heck, up until a few months ago, I was using Yahoo! Maps because they accurately shade different tax jurisdictions (used to determine law enforcement jurisdiction) on their maps.  Blocked, for no reason, and they refuse to unblock it.  We are forced to use Google Maps, which if you've ever noticed, randomly shade all over the place through random property lines for no apparent reason.  And, they suck at mapping addresses on numerically and directionally named highways.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-09-05 10:50:46 AM  
While I don't generally care for Glenn Greenwald, I have several times pointed people to his surveillance state speech from last year. He makes good points about how being watched changes people even when they aren't doing anything illegal.
 
2013-09-05 10:54:01 AM  

IdBeCrazyIf: Wangiss: But hey, two consulting fees.

I will not deny that very often my livelihood is dependent on stupidity


I love getting a call back when someone finally takes my advice.  I won't link to it, but one website I built looked very, very bad.  Good bones, but a teal and orange color scheme.  I called it "garish" and advised we change it to something more professional.  But the owner paid me for it; it was what he wanted.  Two months later an independent reviewer said it looked "like a Mexican's website" and that SoCal client of mine ran back with money in hand for a do-over.  Yeah, I'll take money from racists, lol.
 
2013-09-05 10:54:20 AM  
not always, else the scumbags on reality TV would be less scumbaggy
 
2013-09-05 10:54:25 AM  
I have also changed my behavior thanks to watching surveillance videos. Liveleak has really made me think about how I move about as a pedestrian.

I haven't suddenly started scampering around, jumping at shadows, just made some simple adjustments to lessen the odds of becoming road kill due to rotten bad luck. eg. Where possible I always choose to walk on the footpath facing oncoming traffic**. To be extremely cautious if, as a pedestrian crossing a road, a car stops and waves you thru. And never evarr again am I going to cross a busy road in two stages via waiting on a centre island. I've probably made a dozen adjustments to varying degrees.


** That one's been around probably before cars were invented. But watching Liveleak CCTV reminders of pedestrian maimings REALLY sheets it home!

I've seen quite a few Liveleak forum members who freely admit they've shown graphic CCTV traffic video clips to their children. "Kid being violently thrown 30 feet along the road coz he ran out without checking properly" videos. For their own good.
 
2013-09-05 10:55:00 AM  
It makes sense.
When there is the definite situation of "I can get fired" or "It's going to come out of my pocket", a person is more likely to follow the rules.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-09-05 10:55:41 AM  
The only issues with this is that when we need legitimate access to sites, many times innocuous, it turns out to be blocked.

I'm lucky I haven't had to deal with that sort of corporate IT since the 1990s. Back then the network security guy blocked Dilbert and geocities and anything else that might be considered frivolous. But there was something nonfrivolous on geocities that I needed to get to for work, and the security boss had gone on vacation with instructions to stall any complainers until he got back in a couple weeks.

These days corporations don't seem to be as strict, and if they allow outbound ssh I can get what I want anyway.
 
2013-09-05 10:57:16 AM  

ZAZ: While I don't generally care for Glenn Greenwald, I have several times pointed people to his surveillance state speech from last year. He makes good points about how being watched changes people even when they aren't doing anything illegal.


It's been said "a watched man is not a free man."

A former boss of mine, on his last day, mentioned that he thought it would help humanity to have RF chips embedded at birth.  (This did not reflect his management style, thank God.)  I asked him, "then whose conscience would you be following, yours or the state's?"  I think that changed his mind.
 
2013-09-05 10:58:29 AM  

PizzaJedi81: Working in the restaurant industry, I can see both sides of this argument.

Also, subs, way to miss an easy Schrodinger joke.


Seconded.
 
2013-09-05 10:59:54 AM  
I'm not a fan of the premise that all employees are crooks.  Most of the places I've worked for, that is not the case and in the instances where owners or management had that concept, it turned out that THEY were the dishonest and or the crooks.  It is not a positive, team forming or confidence building  employee - management relationship model to follow.  It disrupts cohesion and creates an "Us Vs' Them" mentality. If your fist step in relations is to basically accuse your employees of being thief's then don't be surprised if people who would normally not take that extra little bit or leftover what ever, now do since you have all ready tried and found them guilty of having done it.  Don't start off by bringing about that which you don't want.
 
2013-09-05 11:03:11 AM  
www.jcnot4me.com

What surveillance to change behavior looks like...
 
2013-09-05 11:05:02 AM  

reillan: Barnstormer: reillan: Wow, way to report on something we've known since 1791.

1791 referring to the Panopticon, I'll wager?
Morals reformed-health preserved-industry invigorated-instruction diffused-public burdens lightened-Economy seated, as it were, upon a rock

I'm glad someone got it :)


The term panopticon should be used more often.

Also, do people start exhibiting the kind of neurotic behavior you see in zoo animals when they are aware they are always being watched?
 
2013-09-05 11:05:04 AM  

Misch: icebergcomics: So, from a societal/civilization stand point, does the "knowing you're being watched" facilitate better behavior, or just obedience?

Dunno. But it does work.


Someone needs to read Michele Foucault.
 
2013-09-05 11:07:49 AM  

ikanreed: wildcardjack: I thought that "Reality TV" proved that a thousand times over. 90% of the drama on that Detroit pawn shop show is because there's a camera for the AW's in the crowd. it's fictionalized drama.

If you've ever watched reality TV and thought to yourself "This is how real people actually act," you are the sucker.


I don't know, buddy. I tell you what, I've got a pal who's an expert at suckers. Let me call him so he can come on down and confirm this.
 
2013-09-05 11:08:06 AM  

ikanreed: wildcardjack: I thought that "Reality TV" proved that a thousand times over. 90% of the drama on that Detroit pawn shop show is because there's a camera for the AW's in the crowd. it's fictionalized drama.

If you've ever watched reality TV and thought to yourself "This is how real people actually act," you are the sucker.


It's as real as pro wrestling. Using racial slurs for ratings? Pretty much stealing from the Iron Sheik. Kayfabe, baby.
 
2013-09-05 11:11:41 AM  

Misch: icebergcomics: So, from a societal/civilization stand point, does the "knowing you're being watched" facilitate better behavior, or just obedience?

Dunno. But it does work.


Which is why prisons are the most obedient places around.
 
2013-09-05 11:13:06 AM  

Quackadam: I'm not a fan of the premise that all employees are crooks.  Most of the places I've worked for, that is not the case and in the instances where owners or management had that concept, it turned out that THEY were the dishonest and or the crooks.  It is not a positive, team forming or confidence building  employee - management relationship model to follow.  It disrupts cohesion and creates an "Us Vs' Them" mentality. If your fist step in relations is to basically accuse your employees of being thief's then don't be surprised if people who would normally not take that extra little bit or leftover what ever, now do since you have all ready tried and found them guilty of having done it.  Don't start off by bringing about that which you don't want.


The problem is that it's easier for management to brand everyone a crook than it is to balance between the needs of the company and the respect of the employee. Basically, the true litmus of whether your employees are going to rob you deaf, dumb, and blind is the culture at the work place.

The less people care and are invested in success, the more it will cost you to get to success. This includes all costs, not just in theft. Overtime? If they are invested, they might forgive you an hour of OT at some point. That's cheaper! Productivity? They will spend better mental and physical resources on your task (this is beyond "goofing off") if they are invested.

And so forth. Unfortunately, companies don't care about this as it's not dollars and cents trackable (E.G., if you track the overtime you aren't paid for, a smart company would pay you when it found out about it to avoid the potential labor board), which makes them popular with investors. Employees are second-rate.
 
2013-09-05 11:20:01 AM  
"Will we next create false gods to rule over us? How proud we have become, and how blind."

-Sister Miriam Godwinson,
"We Must Dissent"

Amazing how technology has enabled us to be in favor of surveillance and snitching that makes the Stasi look like a cub scout troop.

That said, solid management and controls help keep a good man honest. Even honest people will pocket something if it's easy with little chance of being caught.
 
2013-09-05 11:20:50 AM  
"Not surprisingly, NCR is delighted by the results. "It validates the customer data we've seen," said Jeff Hindman, a vice president at NCR."

I'm Mr. New Vegas, and that's all the news I have for you today.
 
2013-09-05 11:28:10 AM  
By casual dining they mean Chipoltes. There are cameras above the register and software hooked into the POS to identify suspicious transactions(eg if someone is paying cash, keep the money and remove the items from the ticket and just add the next customers) and correlate them to the correct spot on the video.
 
2013-09-05 11:28:40 AM  

lockers: Being paranoid isn't normal, but when you have proof they are indeed watching you, being paranoid is expected.


If you know you're actually being watched, then it's the polar opposite of paranoia. Paranoia (by definition) involves beliefs that are irrational and even delusional.
 
2013-09-05 11:35:48 AM  
 
2013-09-05 11:40:16 AM  
Frederick: FTA: "Knowing they were being monitored, the servers not only pulled back on any unethical practices, but also channeled their efforts into, say, prompting customers to have that dessert or a second beer, raising revenue for the restaurant and tips for themselves."
~
~
Yeah that really jumped out at me too. It sounded like a bullet talking point from a large business-oriented think tank lobby group.

 
Also reminded me a bit of those charming old "community service" short films from the 1940s and 1950s, where everything has a happy ending and people are easily shown the error of their ways by a know-it-all mentor.

i42.tinypic.com


The comment is quite conspicuous, wedged in there after all the fairly interesting "before and after" theft statistics. Conspicuous and very slimy, like a paid piece.
 
2013-09-05 11:41:40 AM  

Cybernetic: lockers: Being paranoid isn't normal, but when you have proof they are indeed watching you, being paranoid is expected.

If you know you're actually being watched, then it's the polar opposite of paranoia. Paranoia (by definition) involves beliefs that are irrational and even delusional.


It is expected you have irrational fears if you understand the gravity of US spying. The chances may be low, therefore little risk, that they will be used against you. The consequences if they do are enormous. That's the point.
 
2013-09-05 11:43:11 AM  

Wangiss: Even with no "motivation," rich people steal, too.  There's greed.


That is the most succinct explanation of why Wall St. and our banking system is a cesspool that I have heard of late.
 
2013-09-05 11:45:39 AM  

Madbassist1: PizzaJedi81: Working in the restaurant industry, I can see both sides of this argument.

Also, subs, way to miss an easy Schrodinger joke.

Seconded.


It might have been a Schrodinger joke until you read it.
 
2013-09-05 11:46:34 AM  

Prophet of Loss: Wangiss: Even with no "motivation," rich people steal, too.  There's greed.

That is the most succinct explanation of why Wall St. and our banking system is a cesspool that I have heard of late.


Greed could be considered a form of motivation.
 
2013-09-05 11:51:20 AM  

RTOGUY: Frederick: e noted; an employee with good pay and benefits has little or no motivation for fraud and/or theft

Not always true. My wife took over as head chef at a country club and it pays their servers not server wage which is less than minimum, or minimum wage, but an actual respectable wage plus tips. Many of the servers have worked there for 10 years or more because they can take home after taxes $700/week not including their cash tips or extra income from the banquets or wedding functions. The first thing she did when she got there was go through the old inventory sheets and found that people had been scamming entire cases of chicken wings, entire prime ribs, cases of wine etc. When she brought it up to the director of operations he said it had been like that since he had started and it was just how restaurants ran. She had the order codes changed so that servers couldn't do refunds or void items without management approval and she installed locks on the fridges and freezers and a camera to monitor the backroom. The result was that immediately the profits started trending up since the inventory makes sense and the food and beverage department actually turned a profit for the first time since it opened. Most people are honest but there will always be people that will see a case of wine as just a nice little extra for putting in that three hours of overtime or a box of chicken wings as payment for not having time to go to the grocery store before work.


...
'the director of operations he said it had been like that since he had started'

Sounds like it was the director with his hand in the cooler.
 
2013-09-05 11:55:54 AM  

pounddawg: Prophet of Loss: Wangiss: Even with no "motivation," rich people steal, too.  There's greed.

That is the most succinct explanation of why Wall St. and our banking system is a cesspool that I have heard of late.

Greed could be considered a form of motivation.


True, but I qualify that motivation as "not even remotely justifiable" as a reason to steal.

If a homeless man steals my apple, I am angry but can understand as I have been hungry before. When the same apple is stolen by a man pushing an apple cart, I have no understanding of his actions. Why would someone who already has so much take what little I have?
 
2013-09-05 12:01:35 PM  
Where is Rick Romero when you need him?
 
2013-09-05 12:14:17 PM  
( ... )
 
2013-09-05 12:16:32 PM  

Arsten: The problem is that it's easier for management to brand everyone a crook than it is to balance between the needs of the company and the respect of the employee. Basically, the true litmus of whether your employees are going to rob you deaf, dumb, and blind is the culture at the work place.


Ageed! 
Unfortunately it's that "easier for management" that is often the crux.  Being "Invested" helps but not just monetarily (i.e. paid OT or sales bonus etc.) if the people your working for are respectful and treat you like a human being rather then "just an employee" it makes a world of difference and this does go back to your comment on the culture at the work place.
I am not a fan of the constant surveillance and camera's everywhere mentality. Surveillance in areas where a crime may occur such as a cash register or a blind spot in a store or and entrance/exit way I can understand but more often once they get one system in it's often followed by another and then another and yet there never seems to be one watching those who are watching again bringing about the mistrust and even more so when the monitors are locked in the managers office or being watch by the owners from their homes.  I've seen and have been part of lawsuits that came from this and it's misuse by management (mostly from an employee's wardrobe Vs' camera angle and saved/posted images from it then from actual footage of an employee's theft or misconduct).
 
2013-09-05 12:17:34 PM  
Mugging someone changes their behavior as well...they will be more cautious, stay away from dangerous areas, etc.

But is it right? Ends justifying means and all that. Will my kids have a better life under a surveillance state? or just a 'safer' one?
 
2013-09-05 12:25:38 PM  

IdBeCrazyIf: Wangiss: But hey, two consulting fees.

I will not deny that very often my livelihood is dependent on stupidity


Well my friend, you've chosen wisely and are set for life.
 
2013-09-05 12:29:38 PM  

sunnewswebguy: Mugging someone changes their behavior as well...they will be more cautious, stay away from dangerous areas, etc.

But is it right? Ends justifying means and all that. Will my kids have a better life under a surveillance state? or just a 'safer' one?


There is no validity in this comparison, but, okay.
 
2013-09-05 12:36:02 PM  
Frederick: "I find it telling that the emerging industry solution is draconian tactics to persuade a more beneficial outcome for the employer as opposed to improving wages for the employee."

... that's *always* the industry solution: whatever benefits the business owners.
Sometimes their plans align with good things for employees, sometimes they don't.  Mostly they don't care.
They generally don't even consider the impact on employees until they're figuring out how to deliver/spin the news.

e.g. pervasive monitoring being sold as "helping the employees succeed".
 
2013-09-05 12:39:55 PM  
I actually handle a lot of CCTV footage (I work security for a major trucking company). The amount of bullshiat damage claims outside drivers have made resolved through our cameras are staggering. Employee theft is also always a problem. People are scum and will steal anything not nailed down. From your lunch, to pallets to actual farking freight.

If you run a business and don't have a CCTV system that works, you're a moron.

/every vow you break, every claim you stake I'll be watching you
 
2013-09-05 12:42:52 PM  

Epicanis: Madbassist1: PizzaJedi81: Working in the restaurant industry, I can see both sides of this argument.

Also, subs, way to miss an easy Schrodinger joke.

Seconded.

It might have been a Schrodinger joke until you read it.


DAMN YOOOUUU!
Shakes tiny fist
 
2013-09-05 12:44:05 PM  

Frederick: Interesting subject regarding the effect of surveillance on employee theft and fraud.  Some thoughts:

Cause (FTA):
"Most of the restaurant industry pays its servers low wages and they depend on tips."

Effect (FTA):
"Employee turnover is high. In that environment, a certain amount of theft has long been regarded as a normal part of the business."

I find it telling that the emerging industry solution is draconian tactics to persuade a more beneficial outcome for the employer as opposed to improving wages for the employee.


FTA:
"Knowing they were being monitored, the servers not only pulled back on any unethical practices, but also channeled their efforts into, say, prompting customers to have that dessert or a second beer, raising revenue for the restaurant and tips for themselves."

As corporate capitalism has shown over decades, increased revenues for businesses do not translate to employee's benefits -only to business profits.  The beneficial effect of the surveillance to the employees was in the form of tips only and likely minimal at best.


It should be noted; an employee with good pay and benefits has little or no motivation for fraud and/or theft.

/The converse is also true.


kinda yes kinda no.

people steal for all sorts of reasons from all pay grades.  some are paid well by your standard or mine, but they feel somehow slighted & justified in their theft thinking the 'deserve' it.

i would also suggest that those paid the bare minimum may be less likely to steal as they have fewer if any options if they get caught, whereas a higher level employee might be able to move on to another gig with less consequence.
 
2013-09-05 12:51:58 PM  
i.imgur.com

RIP Jeremy Bentham
 
2013-09-05 02:22:22 PM  

ikanreed: wildcardjack: I thought that "Reality TV" proved that a thousand times over. 90% of the drama on that Detroit pawn shop show is because there's a camera for the AW's in the crowd. it's fictionalized drama.

If you've ever watched reality TV and thought to yourself "This is how real people actually act," you are the sucker.


Yeah, not only are the owners terrible actors playing up their feuding for the camera, the "customers" are even worse actors getting angry over nothing and making a huge scene just so they can be "escorted" out of the store, where the owners then follow them out and continue to engage them. It's really bad drama in a really bad show for really bad people to feel like they are superior just because they don't tend to take a dump in the middle of a store (most of the time).
 
2013-09-05 05:13:28 PM  

silvervial: ikanreed: wildcardjack: I thought that "Reality TV" proved that a thousand times over. 90% of the drama on that Detroit pawn shop show is because there's a camera for the AW's in the crowd. it's fictionalized drama.

If you've ever watched reality TV and thought to yourself "This is how real people actually act," you are the sucker.

Yeah, not only are the owners terrible actors playing up their feuding for the camera, the "customers" are even worse actors getting angry over nothing and making a huge scene just so they can be "escorted" out of the store, where the owners then follow them out and continue to engage them. It's really bad drama in a really bad show for really bad people to feel like they are superior just because they don't tend to take a dump in the middle of a store (most of the time).


The complaints on Kitchen Nightmares are always so comical.  "This is raw; what the hell?" "This table is so filthy" "There's a spot on my glass" "It's loud in here"
I'll admit to having complaints like this, but usually I keep them to myself.  Often it doesn't even deter me from eating at a given place.  But the sheer quantity and persnicketude the complaints encouraged by the presence of The Chef are is ludicrous.  Everyone speaks up.  That's not normal.
 
2013-09-05 05:29:25 PM  
People in my company think that we have tattlers in our vans. They fired one of the drivers because he tried to park a van behind a dumpster so he could sleep. They caught him on video twice doing this in seperate locations. After that all the drivers thought the vans were bugged.
 
2013-09-05 06:49:42 PM  
It's simple capitalism. If there is something in it for them, they work hard for you. If not, they work for themselves.
 
2013-09-05 07:43:12 PM  

Prophet of Loss: pounddawg: Prophet of Loss: Wangiss: Even with no "motivation," rich people steal, too.  There's greed.

That is the most succinct explanation of why Wall St. and our banking system is a cesspool that I have heard of late.

Greed could be considered a form of motivation.

True, but I qualify that motivation as "not even remotely justifiable" as a reason to steal.

If a homeless man steals my apple, I am angry but can understand as I have been hungry before. When the same apple is stolen by a man pushing an apple cart, I have no understanding of his actions. Why would someone who already has so much take what little I have?


media.onsugar.com
 
2013-09-06 01:37:57 AM  
Working in a drive thru liquor store has its dangers. Not long ago we had the cops visit and tell us we needed two more security cameras out the front - good advice one would think, number plates are helpful to investigations. Guess where the owner put the two new cameras - out the back in the storeroom and delivery area -> no increase in security, but when I wish to have a smoke or read the paper for a bit, I now have to go and hide behind the wine racks. Not because I am not allowed to do these things every now and then, but because the millionaire owner wastes many hours a week of his time fast forwarding through hours and hours of video to see what staff are up too and I just do not like being spyed on. So the cameras just made me sneakier and lowered my morale,
 
2013-09-06 01:48:46 AM  

PiffMan420: I actually handle a lot of CCTV footage (I work security for a major trucking company). The amount of bullshiat damage claims outside drivers have made resolved through our cameras are staggering. Employee theft is also always a problem. People are scum and will steal anything not nailed down. From your lunch, to pallets to actual farking freight.

If you run a business and don't have a CCTV system that works, you're a moron.

/every vow you break, every claim you stake I'll be watching you


That made me remember the day I got to work and had the pleasure of watching the footage of a balaclava clad punk (who borrowed a ladder from a nearby equipment hire place) stealing our outside security camera - it reminded me of the old military adage, obstacles are only useful "if covered by view or fire".
 
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