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(CBS News)   "Clearly fish is meat," said Jeff Kerr, an attorney for PETA. "They have thoughts. They have interests. They have a central nervous system. They are not swimming vegetables"   ( divider line 160
    More: Stupid, PETA, Dietary Reference Intake, vegetarians, Institutionalized Persons Act, Department of Corrections, Religious Land Use  
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4868 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Sep 2013 at 8:22 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»

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2013-09-05 05:41:07 PM  

JungleBoogie: Bag-o-Nugs: My brother does not approve of hunting, but he fishes.  I've made the argument to him before that fishing is every bit as cruel if not more-so than hunting.  The typical kill when hunting is supposed to kill the animal with one shot.  The kill in fishing typically comes from the fish slowly suffocating inside an ice box.  Fish are ugly though.  It's easier to not care about them.  Me personally, I don't care about my meals' feelings, hopes, aspirations, or even species to an extent.  If it's tasty meat, then it's tasty meat.  I was given incisors to chew flesh, and I'm going to use them dammit!

[ image 259x171][ image 259x173][ image 259x194]

Humans don't really have much in the way of incisors canines.

Fixed that for you, and in fact, the short canines in humans is NOT a sign that we're herbivores (in fact, the gorilla--which you showed as one of your exhibits--IS a great ape that IS exclusively herbivorous, and has the long-ass intestinal tract and big gut to go with it).

Short canines in Homo and Australopithecus are actually thought to be a neotenous trait--basically, young apes don't have huge canine teeth, and the australopithecine/human line doesn't either.  The thing is, canines in great apes are as much a sexual trait (particularly with male hominin apes, and often used in territorial fighting for mates) as anything used for hunting down prey; sexual competition of the sort that dominates chimpanzee and gorilla cultures wasn't as strong in the sub-clade that led to humans.

Chimpanzees actually have longer canines than the great ape that is closest to the Most Recent Common Ancestor of chimpanzees, bonobos and australopithecines (good old Ardipithecus)--there's some evidence to suggest that the long canines in chimps are due to social aggression.  (Bonobos, which are not as aggressive physically as chimpanzees, tend to have smaller canines in the Ardipithecus range.  In this case it may well be a reversion to the old type, as bonobos speciated from chimpanzees after chimps split from ardipithecines.)

To throw even more of a monkey wrench (pun intended) into things--there IS a known line of australopithecines that DID pretty much go to gorilla-style herbivory (Paranthropus spp., which would look a hell of a lot like Sasquatch if you ever met one face to face).  They developed big jaws and big sagittal crests (for big jaw muscles) and big guts (we can tell from their pelvises)--rather different than the line of australopithecines that eventually led to Homo (and which we do have some good evidence indicating omnivory).

Even worse, even those apes that HAVE big canines tend to NOT use them for hunting.  Chimpanzees are the one ape known to actively hunt for prey (besides man)...and, well, chimpanzees, just like us, use TOOLS to do this (the use of thrown stones and sticks has been documented, and most recently chimpanzees have been documented making primitive wooden spears).  Interestingly, hunting with chimpanzees is closely connected to sexual courting behaviour--he who brings home the bacon brings home the lovin', so to speak.

If we go beyond primates...there are a number of other species that have large canines but are completely herbivorous--musk deer (a rather basal deer clade that are damn near sabertoothed--again, it's all a sexual thing, these are not meat-eating deer) are a fun example.

On the other end, the closest living sister group to primates (the rodent/lagomorph clade) has a number of species that engage in frank omnivory but do not have hueg canines (and in some cases lack canine teeth at all); rats, in particular, are quite opportunistic omnivores (and will happily take down birds and mice if they can get hold of them; hell, anything you can eat, they can eat, for the most part).

Hence one has to be VERY careful at trying to associate canine size with predatory behaviour, especially in omnivorous species.  A better guide is either a long intestinal tract (longer than that of humans, comparatively--think more "length of gorilla intestinal tract") and/or evidence of primary or secondary ruminant behaviour (either something chews its cud--like cows--or passes "cud stool" and eats that (lagomorphs).
2013-09-05 06:41:19 PM  

Madbassist1: "Through the Wormhole"

Sounds like a metaphor for your tiny weenus!

Madbassist1: Morgan: (paraphrased, obviously) Our brains need energy to think and function. We get that energy from food. Sheep get their energy grazing in the meadow. How much grass would it take to power a human brain?

I know exactly how much, about 1800-2300 calories worth a day.  You know humans don't eat grass, and its quite simply when eating a balanced diet of fruits, vegetables, legumes, and grains to get over 2300 calories a day.  All 20 "essential amino acids" (which are the building blocks of ALL proteins in your body) ultimately come from a plant based source, none of them are manufactured or synthesized within an animal.

Madbassist1: Preach all you want my sanctimonious brother. I ain't buying your schtick.

What is more "sanctimonious" in your opinion, treating other living beings like objects, by stealing their purpose, controlling their reproductive cycles, hyper confining them and mutilating them, or the person that tells you that's wrong, and that eating them is going to make you ill, and probably give you heart disease, diabetes, and cancer, not to mention make you fat? Think about it.

like I said , this is how meat eaters play dogpile on the criminal?  ..and since he claims to be vegetarian, the carnists cant help in feeling better than him, so pile on they must, like school children.

This thread is merely a chime in for the status quo robots!  Haven't you drones ever wondered why you feel obligated to defend your programming, like trained sea lions?  The responses in this thread not only show a total lack of empathy, but basic understanding of anatomy. I think deep down everyone here understands the difference between running over the grass with their lawnmower, and running over a dog with their lawn mower.  Yet you meat slaves squirm every which way to defend your fragile egos, its really quite sad to witness.

As Emerson wrote, "Tis said that the view of nature held by any people determine all their institutions." Is it any wonder that the American war machine keeps turning when its citizens hold such a lack of regard for the celebration of nature, in all its glory.

As Singer wrote, "When a human kills an animal for food, he is neglecting his own hunger for justice.  Man prays for mercy, but is unwilling to extend it to others."

As Shaw wrote "The worst sin toward our fellow creatures is not to hate them, but to be indifferent to them, that is the essence of inhumanity."

As Cardinal John Henry Newman wrote "Cruelty to animals is as if man didn't love God...there is something so dreadful, so satanic, in tormenting those who have never harmed us, and who cannot defend themselves, who are utterly in our power."

Oh the Irony of your farkers, always on the lookout for a post to hide your guilt within the rest of society. when in reality, your shallow minded responses to this article really just display an obsolete food orientation.  At least you all have that in common, and there is obviously power in numbers! 
If you've ever wondered why heart disease, diabetes, obesity, and cancer are rampant in our culture, you only need look to a food thread on fark, where they vehemently defend that which is unhealthy to their body and soul like a chorus of computers lacking compunction.
2013-09-05 07:24:21 PM  

THX 1138: LindenFark: Do these people actually claim 'counts as meat' or are you assuming that from a statement like 'I don't eat X'?

I'm not assuming anything.  TFA clearly says that the Connecticut Department of Correction takes the position taken that fish does not count as meat.  It's in the first and the third paragraphs.  Did you not read it?

In the lengthy context of the thread, it's not obvious that your comment about "some people" was about some people in TFA. I was responding to the general comment it sounded like.
2013-09-05 07:25:43 PM  

unchellmatt: "They are not swimming vegetables"

Of course not. If they were, I wouldn't be deep frying the suckers.

Clearly, you are not Southern. That's the only way we know to eat vegetables. That's the only way we know to eat anything.
2013-09-05 08:20:46 PM  

cptjeff: Lady Indica: We do give a shiat about things that have agency, and to what degree they have a mind. And there's a lot that is still debated. I personally tend to lean towards anthropomorphizing.

Stuff is still debated, but the trend line as we get more data and real studies is, "Hey, looks like more complex mammals are capable of abstract thought and emotion! Who knew!". One of the big ones that first proved emotion was a study that showed that dogs are capable of jealousy. Upon hearing about the study, every dog owner on the planet responded with, "no shiat, sherlock. Why are we giving you money for this, again?"

Next you'll tell me that the primary emotion of Cats is schadenfreude.

My dog headbutted my brother because of jealousy. It was hilarious.  My mother would 'call' on me in a specific manner and my dog would come to basically stake his place as the 'favorite'.  Then he stopped doing it (he knew it was a schtick) so my mother proceeded to do it with my brother when he was home. Dog did not like that, brother was leaning toward my mother was if to hug her. Wham, headbutt and dog in mother's lap for petting (beagle, not lap dog)..
2013-09-05 09:32:35 PM  
Fish for sport only. The meat of the fish is like a vegetable. - Ron Swanson
2013-09-05 09:58:33 PM
2013-09-06 01:07:09 AM  
You're a rapist, and you got busted.  You no longer get to choose your own menu.  Perhaps is you were not a scumbag, you would have rights, but as things stand, eat what you are given or don't eat, nobody cares.
2013-09-06 02:35:44 AM  
He's right. All that is true.

But humans are natural predators. It's the way the world works, my friend. Why isn't PETA protesting that cats kill birds?
2013-09-06 12:05:26 PM  


like I said , this is how meat eaters play dogpile on the criminal?  ..and since he claims to be vegetarian, the carnists cant help in feeling better than him, so pile on they must, like school children.

This thread is merely a chime in for the status quo robots!  Haven't you drones ever wondered why you feel obligated to defend your programming, like trained sea lions?...

Lusebagage 2013-09-05 01:43:04 PM

Is this how meat eaters play dogpile on the criminal?...This thread is merely a chime in for the status quo robots! Haven't you drones ever wondered why you feel obligated to blah blah blah tape recorder blah...


How many times are you gonna repeat that same speech?
And why does it have that peculiarly copy/pasted feel?
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