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(CBS News)   "Clearly fish is meat," said Jeff Kerr, an attorney for PETA. "They have thoughts. They have interests. They have a central nervous system. They are not swimming vegetables"   (cbsnews.com) divider line 160
    More: Stupid, PETA, Dietary Reference Intake, vegetarians, Institutionalized Persons Act, Department of Corrections, Religious Land Use  
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4801 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Sep 2013 at 8:22 AM (51 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-05 09:14:26 AM
Damnit! So close
 
2013-09-05 09:14:35 AM

THX 1138: by Terry Bisson, Omni, April 1991. Nominated for the Nebula Award.


Yes!  While it was obviously a short story by somebody, I wanted to know who the author was.
 
2013-09-05 09:18:11 AM

durbnpoisn: At last I can agree with something someone from PETA says.  I've often found the most ridiculous hypocrisy in those that say, "I don't eat meat, except fish."  That makes you sound like an idiot.  An idiot that is not aware of what fish are made of.


Weird, because "I don't do x, except for subset of x" would indicate they do.
 
2013-09-05 09:21:44 AM
They know Finding Nemo is not a documentary, right?
 
2013-09-05 09:27:31 AM
OK he is in prison for 20 years for sexual assault and other crimes. Eat what is served or go hungry Mr POS. And put his dumb ass in general population so he can eat tube steak every day until he has served his time. It's freaking prison, not a G D country club.
 
2013-09-05 09:39:06 AM
OK, so I got around to reading TFA. The guy is being a real pain in the ass. It's not not just a matter of giving him beans instead of meat, theres a lot of nutritional stuff to deal with.
 
2013-09-05 09:43:21 AM
I think he is within his rights to request a strictly vegetarian diet.

And I think the prison is within its rights to provide a basic vegetarian food bar supplemented with the appropriate vitamins and minerals needed to sustain human life.  That vegetarian food bar can be dry and tasteless, there is no guarantee of your special diet request being tasty or appetizing in any way whatsoever.  And if you get tired of it, then you can reconsider whether or not you want to continue your special food request.
 
2013-09-05 09:45:19 AM

unchellmatt: "They are not swimming vegetables"

Of course not. If they were, I wouldn't be deep frying the suckers.


Okra. Green beans. Dill pickles. Broccoli and cheese. Jalapeno poppers. All of these things are delicious when deep fried. You lose.
 
2013-09-05 09:48:27 AM

mainsail: Yeah...but chicken is vegan, right?


Milk and eggs biatch
 
2013-09-05 09:50:02 AM
Most cows are fed either grass or corn. Therefore whenever I have a steak I'm eating a vegan, which is close enough.
 
2013-09-05 09:58:56 AM
"I'm a vegetarian. I'm not strict; I eat fish, and duck. Well, they're nearly fish, aren't they? They're semi-submerged a lot of the time, they spend a lot of time in the water, they're virtually fish, really. And pigs, cows, sheep, anything that lives near water, I'm not strict. I'm sort of like a post-modern vegetarian; I eat meat ironically." - Bill Bailey
 
2013-09-05 10:00:08 AM
It's OK to eat fish, cause they don't have any feelings
 
2013-09-05 10:00:23 AM
Another problem that a bean burrito can solve.

/Your welcome.
 
2013-09-05 10:00:24 AM
I don't eat meat except for fish, pork, babies, beef, and poultry.
 
2013-09-05 10:02:19 AM

a_feral_duck: Most cows are fed either grass or corn. Therefore whenever I have a steak I'm eating a vegan, which is close enough.


When people give me guff about not eating vegetables, I simply tell them that I eat vegetables by outsourcing that job to the meat.
 
2013-09-05 10:06:28 AM
I support PETA- People for the Eating of Tasty Animals.
 
2013-09-05 10:07:50 AM
It's okay to eat fish, cuz they don't have any feelings...
 
2013-09-05 10:09:38 AM
i1.ytimg.com : I have a dream
 
2013-09-05 10:13:13 AM
so what?

We'd eat the lawyer too if there was no fish.

Deal with it.
 
2013-09-05 10:14:59 AM

skozlaw: Grungehamster: I will say that's something that's always bugged me with the "fish can't feel pain" argument.

That's not unique to fish, it's a stupid thing that a lot of people, including a good chunk of biologists, said about all animals at least into the 90s. For a very long time the position was that animals don't feel pain because there's no positive proof that animals feel pain. It was even a "fact" that was used to teach veterinarians to actually ignore discomfort in animals they were treating. It didn't really fall out of favor as a guiding idea until around 20 years ago when people started to think "gee, maybe the odds are a lot better that they do than they don't since they have, you know, nervous systems and display behaviors that appear to be very much like what we know to be human discomfort".


Citation?

(I'll wait over here)
 
2013-09-05 10:25:44 AM
I've been vegan for years and never needed to eat fish.
It's really not that hard to avoid.

/I do eat cows tho. Since they eat grass they are practically a vegetable.
/God made them slow and delicious for a reason. Who am I to question his wisdom?
 
2013-09-05 10:30:13 AM
Forget fish, are oysters meat?  I suppose even thought they function on level much closer to a plant.
 
2013-09-05 10:32:12 AM

skozlaw: BetterMetalSnake: Why are vegans fine killing plants? A life is a life. What makes animal life so special that killing thousands of innocent broccoli can be done with some sort of moral superiority?

Are you aware that vegetables are not conscious? That is one of several key differences that makes animals and plants fundamentally different things?

/ okay... I'll grant you that there's a lot of evidence on the politics tab that suggests otherwise, but I promise you that despite appearances, those posters are not actually partially literate vegetables


When you get down to the lower levels, you can get some interesting questions about whether or not things like nematophagous fungi, nematodes, sea cucumbers, carnivorous plants, or even pole beans are capable of rudimentary consciousness. You can find plants and fungi capable of basic planning, multiple-member communication, or simple hunting. You can also find animals that function in an almost completely passive manner, and just filter nutrients from their immediate surroundings. They basically live like a mushroom or non-photosynthesizing plants.
 
2013-09-05 10:34:07 AM
Hey now,.. if fish was not a vegetable then how come I can have lox and cream cheese at a kosher deli, but not roast beef and cheddar?
 
2013-09-05 10:34:09 AM

unchellmatt: Of course not. If they were, I wouldn't be deep frying the suckers.


Just about any vegetable can be battered and deep fried to deliciousness. Even deep fried tofu can be surprisingly tasty.

/I'm an omnivore, but a good friend of mine is the fattest vegan I've ever met.
//which is to say, moderately overweight
 
2013-09-05 10:34:44 AM

mrEdude: We'd eat the lawyer too if there was no fish.


Empty calories.
 
2013-09-05 10:39:26 AM

NewWorldDan: unchellmatt: Of course not. If they were, I wouldn't be deep frying the suckers.

Just about any vegetable can be battered and deep fried to deliciousness. Even deep fried tofu can be surprisingly tasty.

/I'm an omnivore, but a good friend of mine is the fattest vegan I've ever met.
//which is to say, moderately overweight


Anything deep fried tastes delicious.
 
2013-09-05 10:47:16 AM

genepool lifeboat: mrEdude: We'd eat the lawyer too if there was no fish.

Empty calories.


And they cause dysentery.
 
2013-09-05 10:55:30 AM
static.tumblr.com
 
2013-09-05 10:56:11 AM

for good or for awesome: It's OK to eat fish, cause they don't have any feelings



Zhuangzi and Huizi were strolling along the bridge over the Hao River. Zhuangzi said, "The minnows swim about so freely, following the openings wherever they take them. Such is the happiness of fish."

Huizi said, "You are not a fish, so whence do you know the happiness of fish?"

Zhuangzi said, "You are not I, so whence do you know I don't know the happiness of fish?"

Huizi said, "I am not you, to be sure, so I don't know what it is to be you. But by the same token, since you are certainly not a fish, my point about your inability to know the happiness of fish stands intact."

Zhuangzi said, "Let's go back to the starting point. You said, 'Whence do you know the happiness of fish?' Since your question was premised on your knowing that I know it, I must have known it from here, up above the Hao River."
 
2013-09-05 10:58:54 AM

maddogdelta: Mr Popey sez that fish isn't meat, so its ok to eat on Fridays.  And Mr. Popey can't make mistakes, he said so.


Bill Clinton agrees.
 
2013-09-05 11:07:13 AM

Lady Indica: When we see 'flailing' or any type of stimulus response, we assume there has to be thought or discomfort behind it...but there doesn't. (Hot potato). And in much less complex creatures they simply do not have the brain capacity or structure to experience a lot of what we do...on any level.


There have been some recent studies suggesting that crabs feel pain, not just a direct response to the stimulus but a long-term change in behavior to avoid having it happen again.
 
2013-09-05 11:09:59 AM
I kinda like the old classification of 'meat, fish, poultry'.  They cook differently and taste way different after all.

None of these terms are scientific, so people up on their high horse saying it's all meat are just expressing an opinion, there's no "fact" behind it.  We use the term "meat" all the time to refer to the bulk of a piece of metal being machined, as in "make sure you leave enough meat under the hole so that it doesn't break when you put stress on it".
 
2013-09-05 11:11:08 AM
Mmmmm, all you can eat sushi and sashimi last night was good.
 
2013-09-05 11:15:18 AM

Aegius: Forget fish, are oysters meat?  I suppose even thought they function on level much closer to a plant.


Then there are squid and octopi. And remember that an egg is one single cell, from a single little pink salmon thingee to an ostrich egg bigger'n yer head,
 
2013-09-05 11:24:48 AM
I thought it was okay to eat fish, because they don't have any feelings.
 
2013-09-05 11:33:35 AM

mainsail: Yeah...but chicken is vegan, right?


Chicken are birds. Birds live in trees. Fruit lives in trees. Therefore, birds are fruit and chicken is vegan. Eat up.
 
2013-09-05 11:37:07 AM
My google-fu sucks.

Homer: "fish? Hmmm, I'm not really a vegetarian..."

Homer Simpson on a double-decker bus in London pulling up to a fish and chips place.jpeg

/would've worked if I found the right pic
//I spent 5 minutes looking for it, I'm posting something, dammit.
///dammit.
 
2013-09-05 11:38:08 AM

Grungehamster: I will say that's something that's always bugged me with the "fish can't feel pain" argument. Anyone who has ever caught a fish knows that it will fight and flail to get away with all it's strength, even if it's bleeding out and dying. That means they have to have some sort of rapid response system aimed at self preservation against dangerous stimuli. Sure it might not be experienced the same way as humans do, but "pain" has to exist in all animals to some degree simply because they have something driving them towards self-preservative behavior.


To paraphrase David foster Wallace after his exhaustive research into the nervous system of the lobster, that clattering you hear is the lobster expressing his preference to leave the pot.
 
2013-09-05 11:40:42 AM

Deathfrogg: genepool lifeboat: mrEdude: We'd eat the lawyer too if there was no fish.

Empty calories.

And they cause dysentery.


Lawyers are so full of shiat I'd be more worried about norovirus.
 
2013-09-05 11:43:17 AM

Onkel Buck: ko_kyi: Meat is murder.  Delicious, protein-packed murder.

[i26.photobucket.com image 320x192]
[i26.photobucket.com image 320x192]
/Murder steer approves


When the night is dark and stormy
And the ghost wind moans and chills,
They tell about the Murder Bull
That roams the Texas hills

There's many a year been born and died,
and still it roams the night
with MURDER branded on its side
in letters red and bright...
 
2013-09-05 11:48:59 AM

Tax Boy: [24.media.tumblr.com image 500x251]


The smarter kids would realize that they are now on the menu instead.
 
2013-09-05 11:58:08 AM
the entire college of Cardinals frowns on your Shenannigans:
asiantribune.com
 
2013-09-05 11:58:31 AM

mod3072: unchellmatt: "They are not swimming vegetables"

Of course not. If they were, I wouldn't be deep frying the suckers.

Okra. Green beans. Dill pickles. Broccoli and cheese. Jalapeno poppers. All of these things are delicious when deep fried. You lose.


Wow, Okra, broccoli are one of the healthiest veggies available and you deep fry them? Here's are some tips:
Brocs: stir fry with garlic and olive oil for 5-7mins, and add a lil bit of chinese oyster sauce (or soy sauce) and stir fry for another minute and then pretend you're a brontosaurus.
Okra: just pop them in a slow boiled curry to add thickness.

(okra is also really good for cholesterol if u leave chopped ones in a glass of water for a day in the fridge, and slurp the gooey thing for breakfast....My dad does that, I wouldn't)
 
2013-09-05 11:58:38 AM

THX 1138: "They're made out of meat."

     "Meat?"

     "Meat. They're made out of meat."

     "Meat?"

     "There's no doubt about it. We picked up several from different parts of the planet, took them aboard our recon vessels, and probed them all the way through. They're completely meat."

     "That's impossible. What about the radio signals? The messages to the stars?"

     "They use the radio waves to talk, but the signals don't come from them. The signals come from machines."

     "So who made the machines? That's who we want to contact."

     "They made the machines. That's what I'm trying to tell you. Meat made the machines."

     "That's ridiculous. How can meat make a machine? You're asking me to believe in sentient meat."

     "I'm not asking you, I'm telling you. These creatures are the only sentient race in that sector and they're made out of meat."

     "Maybe they're like the orfolei. You know, a carbon-based intelligence that goes through a meat stage."

     "Nope. They're born meat and they die meat. We studied them for several of their life spans, which didn't take long. Do you have any idea what's the life span of meat?"

     "Spare me. Okay, maybe they're only part meat. You know, like the weddilei. A meat head with an electron plasma brain inside."

     "Nope. We thought of that, since they do have meat heads, like the weddilei. But I told you, we probed them. They're meat all the way through."

     "No brain?"

     "Oh, there's a brain all right. It's just that the brain is made out of meat! That's what I've been trying to tell you."

     "So ... what does the thinking?"

     "You're not understanding, are you? You're refusing to deal with what I'm telling you. The brain does the thinking. The meat."

     "Thinking meat! You're asking me to believe in thinking meat!"

     "Yes, thinking meat! Conscious meat! Loving meat. Dreaming meat. The meat is the whole deal! Are you beginning to get the picture or do I have to start all over?"

     "Omigod. You're serious then. They're made out of meat."

     "Thank you. Finally. Yes. They are indeed made out of meat. And they've been trying to get in touch with us for almost a hundred of their years."

     "Omigod. So what does this meat have in mind?"

     "First it wants to talk to us. Then I imagine it wants to explore the Universe, contact other sentiences, swap ideas and information. The usual."

     "We're supposed to talk to meat."

     "That's the idea. That's the message they're sending out by radio. 'Hello. Anyone out there. Anybody home.' That sort of thing."

     "They actually do talk, then. They use words, ideas, concepts?"

     "Oh, yes. Except they do it with meat."

     "I thought you just told me they used radio."

     "They do, but what do you think is on the radio? Meat sounds. You know how when you slap or flap meat, it makes a noise? They talk by flapping their meat at each other. They can even sing by squirting air through their meat."

     "Omigod. Singing meat. This is altogether too much. So what do you advise?"

     "Officially or unofficially?"

     "Both."

     "Officially, we are required to contact, welcome and log in any and all sentient races or multibeings in this quadrant of the Universe, without prejudice, fear or favor. Unofficially, I advise that we erase the records and forget the whole thing."

     "I was hoping you would say that."

     "It seems harsh, but there is a limit. Do we really want to make contact with meat?"

     "I agree one hundred percent. What's there to say? 'Hello, meat. How's it going?' But will this work? How many planets are we dealing with here?"

     "Just one. They can travel to other planets in special meat containers, but they can't live on them. And being meat, they can only travel through C space. Which limits them to the speed of light and makes the possibility of their ever making contact pretty slim. Infinitesimal, in fact."

     "So we just pretend there's no one home in the Universe."

     "That's it."

     "Cruel. But you said it yourself, who wants to meet meat? And the ones who have been aboard our vessels, the ones you probed? You're sure they won't remember?"

     "They'll be considered crackpots if they do. We went into their heads and smoothed out their meat so that we're just a dream to them."

     "A dream to meat! How strangely appropriate, that we should be meat's dream."

     "And we marked the entire sector unoccupied."

     "Good. Agreed, officially and unofficially. Case closed. Any others? Anyone interesting on that side of the galaxy?"

     "Yes, a rather shy but sweet hydrogen core cluster intelligence in a class nine star in G445 zone. Was in contact two galactic rotations ago, wants to be friendly again."

     "They always come around."

     "And why not? Imagine how unbearably, how unutterably cold the Universe would be if one were all alone ..."


I've read this somewhere...
 
2013-09-05 12:05:21 PM

Grungehamster: I will say that's something that's always bugged me with the "fish can't feel pain" argument. Anyone who has ever caught a fish knows that it will fight and flail to get away with all it's strength, even if it's bleeding out and dying. That means they have to have some sort of rapid response system aimed at self preservation against dangerous stimuli. Sure it might not be experienced the same way as humans do, but "pain" has to exist in all animals to some degree simply because they have something driving them towards self-preservative behavior.


The debate is whether or not that behavior is reflexive or reflective. Is it just an instinctive reaction like a flatworm, or do fish think "about" pain as some other animals do?

Either way, it's a weak argument for or against fishing designed to fan the flames, not reolve anything.
 
2013-09-05 12:06:03 PM

durbnpoisn: At last I can agree with something someone from PETA says.  I've often found the most ridiculous hypocrisy in those that say, "I don't eat meat, except fish."  That makes you sound like an idiot.  An idiot that is not aware of what fish are made of.


Goes back to Catholicism I'm afraid, on "Rogation Days" like Fridays in lent now and all Fridays in prior times, Catholics are not supposed to eat meat.   However Fish and seasfood are exempt from that prohibition.   Why?  Well the first Pope was also a Fisherman, and probably still had a part interest in his fishing fleet, soo do I really need to spell this out for ya?
 
2013-09-05 12:09:55 PM
Then don't eat it.
 
2013-09-05 12:10:45 PM
Beaver=fish

True story.
 
2013-09-05 12:13:19 PM

KrispyKritter: mainsail: Yeah...but chicken is vegan, right?

chicken: the other white meat?

/ Chicken of the Sea - total confusion


A friend of mine, who said he was "mostly vegitarian" always referred to chicken as "the fruit with feathers".
 
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