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(CBS News)   "Clearly fish is meat," said Jeff Kerr, an attorney for PETA. "They have thoughts. They have interests. They have a central nervous system. They are not swimming vegetables"   (cbsnews.com) divider line 160
    More: Stupid, PETA, Dietary Reference Intake, vegetarians, Institutionalized Persons Act, Department of Corrections, Religious Land Use  
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4814 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Sep 2013 at 8:22 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



160 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2013-09-05 08:03:19 AM  
Presumably he'd be OK with raping the fish, however.
 
2013-09-05 08:22:21 AM  
21- So I guess I should become a vegetarian?
24 - No, everything living has a soul. Even spinach. You can't win.
 
2013-09-05 08:23:21 AM  
He forgot to mention tasty.
 
2013-09-05 08:26:22 AM  
"They are not swimming vegetables"

Of course not. If they were, I wouldn't be deep frying the suckers.
 
2013-09-05 08:26:36 AM  
While I've never considered the profound interests of fish, I do agree that they are a type of meat. Tasty, lean and healthy.
 
2013-09-05 08:26:56 AM  
Yeah...but chicken is vegan, right?
 
2013-09-05 08:28:21 AM  

mainsail: Yeah...but chicken is vegan, right?


Sorry, no. I heard porterhouses are OK though.
 
2013-09-05 08:28:24 AM  
If he'd practiced that Buddhist life of nonviolence, perhaps he wouldn't be in the pokey.
 
2013-09-05 08:28:26 AM  

mainsail: Yeah...but chicken is vegan, right?


chicken: the other white meat?

/ Chicken of the Sea - total confusion
 
2013-09-05 08:28:37 AM  
If fish were so smart they'd pull those nets down to the sea floor by working together
 
2013-09-05 08:29:42 AM  

mainsail: Yeah...but chicken is vegan, right?


1.bp.blogspot.com

Am I red meat yet?
 
2013-09-05 08:30:18 AM  
Vegans are murderers! They pollute the environment with all the fecal matter they use to raise the crops and the pesticides! The pesticides kill insects, small mammals, and birds! It causes cancers in humans and birth defects in babies! Down with vegans!
 
2013-09-05 08:31:27 AM  
At last I can agree with something someone from PETA says.  I've often found the most ridiculous hypocrisy in those that say, "I don't eat meat, except fish."  That makes you sound like an idiot.  An idiot that is not aware of what fish are made of.
 
2013-09-05 08:32:27 AM  
dilbert.com
 
2013-09-05 08:33:05 AM  
Meat is murder.  Delicious, protein-packed murder.
 
2013-09-05 08:34:54 AM  

durbnpoisn: At last I can agree with something someone from PETA says.  I've often found the most ridiculous hypocrisy in those that say, "I don't eat meat, except fish."  That makes you sound like an idiot.  An idiot that is not aware of what fish are made of.


"I don't eat meat except for fish" is fine. It's means you do eat meat... fish meat.

It's people who claim they are vegetarians who still eat fish that are the idiots.
 
2013-09-05 08:34:59 AM  
i.imgur.com
 
2013-09-05 08:36:04 AM  
I will say that's something that's always bugged me with the "fish can't feel pain" argument. Anyone who has ever caught a fish knows that it will fight and flail to get away with all it's strength, even if it's bleeding out and dying. That means they have to have some sort of rapid response system aimed at self preservation against dangerous stimuli. Sure it might not be experienced the same way as humans do, but "pain" has to exist in all animals to some degree simply because they have something driving them towards self-preservative behavior.
 
2013-09-05 08:36:08 AM  
I don't understand the mindset where some people draw arbitrary lines and declare that only red meat counts as meat, or only land animals (which adds chicken, turkey, etc) count as meat.

Fish are animals, just like land animals, but they just happen to live in water.  Hell, they're even vertebrates, which puts them a helluva lot closer to land animals we use for food than it puts them to invertebrates like squid or scallops.

They're animals.  Animals are made of meat, for fark's sake.
 
2013-09-05 08:36:40 AM  

unchellmatt: "They are not swimming vegetables"

Of course not. If they were, I wouldn't be deep frying the suckers.


French fries?
 
2013-09-05 08:37:48 AM  

unchellmatt: "They are not swimming vegetables"

Of course not. If they were, I wouldn't be deep frying the suckers.


Let's not be hasty - fried zucchini flowers are amazing

Some would even call potatoes vegetables - so fries....


My ancestors did not kill their way to the top of the food chain just so I would abdicate from the throne they passed down to me.

// On the other hand, thanks to the foodies/vegans/grass-eaters, and other non-traditional eaters, I can get some great ingredients at my normal grocery store that my parents had never even heard of.  So there's that.
 
2013-09-05 08:38:21 AM  

ko_kyi: Meat is murder.  Delicious, protein-packed murder.


i26.photobucket.com
i26.photobucket.com
/Murder steer approves
 
2013-09-05 08:38:26 AM  

js34603: mainsail: Yeah...but chicken is vegan, right?

Sorry, no. I heard porterhouses are OK though.


Veal is sort of a vegetable. I think it may have touched a carrot as it frolicked in the garden
 
2013-09-05 08:38:41 AM  
Seafood three times a week?

I need to get myself arrested. This oughta do it... I just add the magic "get arrested" words to my post:

Pressure cooker, backpack, nails, shoe bomb, my little pony.
 
2013-09-05 08:38:50 AM  

ko_kyi: Meat is murder.  Delicious, protein-packed murder.


If you eat a steak you're responsible for about 1% of a murder. If you eat a shrimp cocktail you're a serial killer. Justify that, I only eat fish vegetarians.
 
2013-09-05 08:39:27 AM  
Give them pasta all week long, problem solved
 
2013-09-05 08:42:18 AM  
Why are vegans fine killing plants? A life is a life. What makes animal life so special that killing thousands of innocent broccoli can be done with some sort of moral superiority?

Life feeds on life.
 
2013-09-05 08:42:56 AM  
"They're made out of meat."

     "Meat?"

     "Meat. They're made out of meat."

     "Meat?"

     "There's no doubt about it. We picked up several from different parts of the planet, took them aboard our recon vessels, and probed them all the way through. They're completely meat."

     "That's impossible. What about the radio signals? The messages to the stars?"

     "They use the radio waves to talk, but the signals don't come from them. The signals come from machines."

     "So who made the machines? That's who we want to contact."

     "They made the machines. That's what I'm trying to tell you. Meat made the machines."

     "That's ridiculous. How can meat make a machine? You're asking me to believe in sentient meat."

     "I'm not asking you, I'm telling you. These creatures are the only sentient race in that sector and they're made out of meat."

     "Maybe they're like the orfolei. You know, a carbon-based intelligence that goes through a meat stage."

     "Nope. They're born meat and they die meat. We studied them for several of their life spans, which didn't take long. Do you have any idea what's the life span of meat?"

     "Spare me. Okay, maybe they're only part meat. You know, like the weddilei. A meat head with an electron plasma brain inside."

     "Nope. We thought of that, since they do have meat heads, like the weddilei. But I told you, we probed them. They're meat all the way through."

     "No brain?"

     "Oh, there's a brain all right. It's just that the brain is made out of meat! That's what I've been trying to tell you."

     "So ... what does the thinking?"

     "You're not understanding, are you? You're refusing to deal with what I'm telling you. The brain does the thinking. The meat."

     "Thinking meat! You're asking me to believe in thinking meat!"

     "Yes, thinking meat! Conscious meat! Loving meat. Dreaming meat. The meat is the whole deal! Are you beginning to get the picture or do I have to start all over?"

     "Omigod. You're serious then. They're made out of meat."

     "Thank you. Finally. Yes. They are indeed made out of meat. And they've been trying to get in touch with us for almost a hundred of their years."

     "Omigod. So what does this meat have in mind?"

     "First it wants to talk to us. Then I imagine it wants to explore the Universe, contact other sentiences, swap ideas and information. The usual."

     "We're supposed to talk to meat."

     "That's the idea. That's the message they're sending out by radio. 'Hello. Anyone out there. Anybody home.' That sort of thing."

     "They actually do talk, then. They use words, ideas, concepts?"

     "Oh, yes. Except they do it with meat."

     "I thought you just told me they used radio."

     "They do, but what do you think is on the radio? Meat sounds. You know how when you slap or flap meat, it makes a noise? They talk by flapping their meat at each other. They can even sing by squirting air through their meat."

     "Omigod. Singing meat. This is altogether too much. So what do you advise?"

     "Officially or unofficially?"

     "Both."

     "Officially, we are required to contact, welcome and log in any and all sentient races or multibeings in this quadrant of the Universe, without prejudice, fear or favor. Unofficially, I advise that we erase the records and forget the whole thing."

     "I was hoping you would say that."

     "It seems harsh, but there is a limit. Do we really want to make contact with meat?"

     "I agree one hundred percent. What's there to say? 'Hello, meat. How's it going?' But will this work? How many planets are we dealing with here?"

     "Just one. They can travel to other planets in special meat containers, but they can't live on them. And being meat, they can only travel through C space. Which limits them to the speed of light and makes the possibility of their ever making contact pretty slim. Infinitesimal, in fact."

     "So we just pretend there's no one home in the Universe."

     "That's it."

     "Cruel. But you said it yourself, who wants to meet meat? And the ones who have been aboard our vessels, the ones you probed? You're sure they won't remember?"

     "They'll be considered crackpots if they do. We went into their heads and smoothed out their meat so that we're just a dream to them."

     "A dream to meat! How strangely appropriate, that we should be meat's dream."

     "And we marked the entire sector unoccupied."

     "Good. Agreed, officially and unofficially. Case closed. Any others? Anyone interesting on that side of the galaxy?"

     "Yes, a rather shy but sweet hydrogen core cluster intelligence in a class nine star in G445 zone. Was in contact two galactic rotations ago, wants to be friendly again."

     "They always come around."

     "And why not? Imagine how unbearably, how unutterably cold the Universe would be if one were all alone ..."
 
2013-09-05 08:43:02 AM  
Fish is meat.  Birds are meat.

Pretty simple.
 
2013-09-05 08:44:06 AM  

Grungehamster: I will say that's something that's always bugged me with the "fish can't feel pain" argument.


That's not unique to fish, it's a stupid thing that a lot of people, including a good chunk of biologists, said about all animals at least into the 90s. For a very long time the position was that animals don't feel pain because there's no positive proof that animals feel pain. It was even a "fact" that was used to teach veterinarians to actually ignore discomfort in animals they were treating. It didn't really fall out of favor as a guiding idea until around 20 years ago when people started to think "gee, maybe the odds are a lot better that they do than they don't since they have, you know, nervous systems and display behaviors that appear to be very much like what we know to be human discomfort".
 
2013-09-05 08:44:34 AM  

BetterMetalSnake: Life feeds on life.


These are the cries of the carrots, the cries of the carrots! You see, Reverend Maynard, tomorrow is harvest day and to them it is the holocaust!

This is necessary.
 
2013-09-05 08:46:07 AM  
Plants also have primitive intelligence and are known to communicate with each other and call for help when being eaten or threatened. The idea that you are morally superior because your food doesn't have a face is laughable.
 
2013-09-05 08:48:34 AM  
Mr Popey sez that fish isn't meat, so its ok to eat on Fridays.  And Mr. Popey can't make mistakes, he said so.
 
2013-09-05 08:48:48 AM  

BetterMetalSnake: Why are vegans fine killing plants? A life is a life. What makes animal life so special that killing thousands of innocent broccoli can be done with some sort of moral superiority?


Are you aware that vegetables are not conscious? That is one of several key differences that makes animals and plants fundamentally different things?

/ okay... I'll grant you that there's a lot of evidence on the politics tab that suggests otherwise, but I promise you that despite appearances, those posters are not actually partially literate vegetables
 
2013-09-05 08:49:47 AM  

THX 1138: "They're made out of meat."


If you're going to copypaste a short story from the 90's, you could at least credit the author, you heathen.
 
2013-09-05 08:50:00 AM  

VeggieDelight: French fries?


Deep fried oreos, twinkies, beer and nutella are viable options for deep frying.
 
2013-09-05 08:51:23 AM  
Clearly the warden is an old school Roman Catholic who believes fish is not meat!
 
2013-09-05 08:51:39 AM  

starsrift: If you're going to copypaste a short story from the 90's, you could at least credit the author, you heathen.


- by Terry Bisson,  Omni, April 1991.  Nominated for the Nebula Award.

Are we good now?
 
2013-09-05 08:53:49 AM  

NicoFinn: While I've never considered the profound interests of fish, I do agree that they are a type of meat. Tasty, lean and healthy.


Oh, fish are renowned for their broad and eclectic interests. I remember a walleye named Kentrobu Shinsaw who lived under a frozen lake in Canada's northern territories, and you should have seen this fish's library. Granted it was underwater, but it was still amazing and so diverse. Everything from a first edition biography of Adrien-Marie Legendre to an anthology of Brazilian poets to a series of physics sketches by an early assistant of Einstein as he tried to help the old man figure out constants to molecular dimensions.

Kentrobu was a former mountaineer, drove a race car for two years in Spain until a crash left him with a broken dorsal fin that never set right and sometimes caused him to swim in circles when he got excited. He eschewed the snobby wine collecting and instead became a water connoisseur. He could tell you if water was from a pond, stream or sea, if the snowmelt where it originated had more conifers or deciduous trees, and even the region from where it originated. He used to explain the concept of the interplay between light and magnetic fields, how gravity explained particle theory, and the rather obscure topics of consciousness and perception between humans and animals.

Sadly, he was caught last April by an angler named Chuck.
 
2013-09-05 08:55:42 AM  

THX 1138: starsrift: If you're going to copypaste a short story from the 90's, you could at least credit the author, you heathen.

- by Terry Bisson,  Omni, April 1991.  Nominated for the Nebula Award.

Are we good now?


Yup. :)
 
2013-09-05 08:56:24 AM  
24.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-09-05 08:58:51 AM  

HailRobonia: durbnpoisn: At last I can agree with something someone from PETA says.  I've often found the most ridiculous hypocrisy in those that say, "I don't eat meat, except fish."  That makes you sound like an idiot.  An idiot that is not aware of what fish are made of.

"I don't eat meat except for fish" is fine. It's means you do eat meat... fish meat.

It's people who claim they are vegetarians who still eat fish that are the idiots.


They don't call  themselves vegetarians anymore. They call themselves pescatarians.
 
2013-09-05 08:59:20 AM  

VeggieDelight: unchellmatt: "They are not swimming vegetables"

Of course not. If they were, I wouldn't be deep frying the suckers.

French fries?


Fried okra. Good stuff.
 
2013-09-05 09:03:22 AM  

starsrift: THX 1138: starsrift: If you're going to copypaste a short story from the 90's, you could at least credit the author, you heathen.

- by Terry Bisson,  Omni, April 1991.  Nominated for the Nebula Award.

Are we good now?

Yup. :)


Seems unnecessary since this is Fark and nothing is obscure here. But citations are always good I guess.
 
2013-09-05 09:05:46 AM  
Just use the right fishing tackle, and the poor creatures won't feel a thing.
85playgames.eval.hwcdn.net
 
2013-09-05 09:06:23 AM  

Grungehamster: I will say that's something that's always bugged me with the "fish can't feel pain" argument. Anyone who has ever caught a fish knows that it will fight and flail to get away with all it's strength, even if it's bleeding out and dying. That means they have to have some sort of rapid response system aimed at self preservation against dangerous stimuli. Sure it might not be experienced the same way as humans do, but "pain" has to exist in all animals to some degree simply because they have something driving them towards self-preservative behavior.


I struggle with this too, but that doesn't mean they're feeling it.

I'm a big fan of ants. In one of the many, many docs. I've watched on them, I saw some ants in Argentina being killed by fire. The cowboys there do controlled burns. The ants haven't evolved to deal with fire in any way. They simply can't. So they do not respond to it. They continue to work, as the flames are close...and then just shut down. There's no flailing or anything else.

When we see 'flailing' or any type of stimulus response, we assume there has to be thought or discomfort behind it...but there doesn't. (Hot potato). And in much less complex creatures they simply do not have the brain capacity or structure to experience a lot of what we do...on any level.

And with ants, there's no thought at all. They're little robots. They have programming to do what they do, and its very limited. Because of how they process data, the more in a colony you have, the 'smarter' the colony is by virtue of processing power.

Anyhoo the question of agency is pretty important because we (humans) do give a shiat if something is an agent. We can't 'hurt' a rock, so fark rocks we don't have people caring about what happens to rocks. No one cares if you kick a stone. We do give a shiat about things that have agency, and to what degree they have a mind. And there's a lot that is still debated. I personally tend to lean towards anthropomorphizing.
 
2013-09-05 09:09:58 AM  
Genju:
They don't call  themselves vegetarians anymore. They call themselves pescatarians.

Not to be confused with pescitarians, who are cannibals who hunger for the flesh of this guy:

aliasmissmellie.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-09-05 09:11:08 AM  
Wait, I thought PETA firmly established that fish are kittens.  Mmmm.... Sea kittens.  Grilled golden brown with butter and garlic.  Just a squeeze of lemon at the end.  Served piping hot with a nice bed of rice and a nice, crisp salad.  Right.  It's decided.  Having Sea Kitten for lunch.
 
2013-09-05 09:13:49 AM  
A story about fish and PETA and no mention of the Sea Kittens? http://features.peta.org/PETASeaKittens/
Fark, I am disappoint. :(
 
2013-09-05 09:14:18 AM  
 
2013-09-05 09:14:26 AM  
Damnit! So close
 
2013-09-05 09:14:35 AM  

THX 1138: by Terry Bisson, Omni, April 1991. Nominated for the Nebula Award.


Yes!  While it was obviously a short story by somebody, I wanted to know who the author was.
 
2013-09-05 09:18:11 AM  

durbnpoisn: At last I can agree with something someone from PETA says.  I've often found the most ridiculous hypocrisy in those that say, "I don't eat meat, except fish."  That makes you sound like an idiot.  An idiot that is not aware of what fish are made of.


Weird, because "I don't do x, except for subset of x" would indicate they do.
 
2013-09-05 09:21:44 AM  
They know Finding Nemo is not a documentary, right?
 
2013-09-05 09:27:31 AM  
OK he is in prison for 20 years for sexual assault and other crimes. Eat what is served or go hungry Mr POS. And put his dumb ass in general population so he can eat tube steak every day until he has served his time. It's freaking prison, not a G D country club.
 
2013-09-05 09:39:06 AM  
OK, so I got around to reading TFA. The guy is being a real pain in the ass. It's not not just a matter of giving him beans instead of meat, theres a lot of nutritional stuff to deal with.
 
2013-09-05 09:43:21 AM  
I think he is within his rights to request a strictly vegetarian diet.

And I think the prison is within its rights to provide a basic vegetarian food bar supplemented with the appropriate vitamins and minerals needed to sustain human life.  That vegetarian food bar can be dry and tasteless, there is no guarantee of your special diet request being tasty or appetizing in any way whatsoever.  And if you get tired of it, then you can reconsider whether or not you want to continue your special food request.
 
2013-09-05 09:45:19 AM  

unchellmatt: "They are not swimming vegetables"

Of course not. If they were, I wouldn't be deep frying the suckers.


Okra. Green beans. Dill pickles. Broccoli and cheese. Jalapeno poppers. All of these things are delicious when deep fried. You lose.
 
2013-09-05 09:48:27 AM  

mainsail: Yeah...but chicken is vegan, right?


Milk and eggs biatch
 
2013-09-05 09:50:02 AM  
Most cows are fed either grass or corn. Therefore whenever I have a steak I'm eating a vegan, which is close enough.
 
2013-09-05 09:58:56 AM  
"I'm a vegetarian. I'm not strict; I eat fish, and duck. Well, they're nearly fish, aren't they? They're semi-submerged a lot of the time, they spend a lot of time in the water, they're virtually fish, really. And pigs, cows, sheep, anything that lives near water, I'm not strict. I'm sort of like a post-modern vegetarian; I eat meat ironically." - Bill Bailey
 
2013-09-05 10:00:08 AM  
It's OK to eat fish, cause they don't have any feelings
 
2013-09-05 10:00:23 AM  
Another problem that a bean burrito can solve.

/Your welcome.
 
2013-09-05 10:00:24 AM  
I don't eat meat except for fish, pork, babies, beef, and poultry.
 
2013-09-05 10:02:19 AM  

a_feral_duck: Most cows are fed either grass or corn. Therefore whenever I have a steak I'm eating a vegan, which is close enough.


When people give me guff about not eating vegetables, I simply tell them that I eat vegetables by outsourcing that job to the meat.
 
2013-09-05 10:06:28 AM  
I support PETA- People for the Eating of Tasty Animals.
 
2013-09-05 10:07:50 AM  
It's okay to eat fish, cuz they don't have any feelings...
 
2013-09-05 10:09:38 AM  
i1.ytimg.com : I have a dream
 
2013-09-05 10:13:13 AM  
so what?

We'd eat the lawyer too if there was no fish.

Deal with it.
 
2013-09-05 10:14:59 AM  

skozlaw: Grungehamster: I will say that's something that's always bugged me with the "fish can't feel pain" argument.

That's not unique to fish, it's a stupid thing that a lot of people, including a good chunk of biologists, said about all animals at least into the 90s. For a very long time the position was that animals don't feel pain because there's no positive proof that animals feel pain. It was even a "fact" that was used to teach veterinarians to actually ignore discomfort in animals they were treating. It didn't really fall out of favor as a guiding idea until around 20 years ago when people started to think "gee, maybe the odds are a lot better that they do than they don't since they have, you know, nervous systems and display behaviors that appear to be very much like what we know to be human discomfort".


Citation?

(I'll wait over here)
 
2013-09-05 10:25:44 AM  
I've been vegan for years and never needed to eat fish.
It's really not that hard to avoid.

/I do eat cows tho. Since they eat grass they are practically a vegetable.
/God made them slow and delicious for a reason. Who am I to question his wisdom?
 
2013-09-05 10:30:13 AM  
Forget fish, are oysters meat?  I suppose even thought they function on level much closer to a plant.
 
2013-09-05 10:32:12 AM  

skozlaw: BetterMetalSnake: Why are vegans fine killing plants? A life is a life. What makes animal life so special that killing thousands of innocent broccoli can be done with some sort of moral superiority?

Are you aware that vegetables are not conscious? That is one of several key differences that makes animals and plants fundamentally different things?

/ okay... I'll grant you that there's a lot of evidence on the politics tab that suggests otherwise, but I promise you that despite appearances, those posters are not actually partially literate vegetables


When you get down to the lower levels, you can get some interesting questions about whether or not things like nematophagous fungi, nematodes, sea cucumbers, carnivorous plants, or even pole beans are capable of rudimentary consciousness. You can find plants and fungi capable of basic planning, multiple-member communication, or simple hunting. You can also find animals that function in an almost completely passive manner, and just filter nutrients from their immediate surroundings. They basically live like a mushroom or non-photosynthesizing plants.
 
2013-09-05 10:34:07 AM  
Hey now,.. if fish was not a vegetable then how come I can have lox and cream cheese at a kosher deli, but not roast beef and cheddar?
 
2013-09-05 10:34:09 AM  

unchellmatt: Of course not. If they were, I wouldn't be deep frying the suckers.


Just about any vegetable can be battered and deep fried to deliciousness. Even deep fried tofu can be surprisingly tasty.

/I'm an omnivore, but a good friend of mine is the fattest vegan I've ever met.
//which is to say, moderately overweight
 
2013-09-05 10:34:44 AM  

mrEdude: We'd eat the lawyer too if there was no fish.


Empty calories.
 
2013-09-05 10:39:26 AM  

NewWorldDan: unchellmatt: Of course not. If they were, I wouldn't be deep frying the suckers.

Just about any vegetable can be battered and deep fried to deliciousness. Even deep fried tofu can be surprisingly tasty.

/I'm an omnivore, but a good friend of mine is the fattest vegan I've ever met.
//which is to say, moderately overweight


Anything deep fried tastes delicious.
 
2013-09-05 10:47:16 AM  

genepool lifeboat: mrEdude: We'd eat the lawyer too if there was no fish.

Empty calories.


And they cause dysentery.
 
2013-09-05 10:55:30 AM  
static.tumblr.com
 
2013-09-05 10:56:11 AM  

for good or for awesome: It's OK to eat fish, cause they don't have any feelings



Zhuangzi and Huizi were strolling along the bridge over the Hao River. Zhuangzi said, "The minnows swim about so freely, following the openings wherever they take them. Such is the happiness of fish."

Huizi said, "You are not a fish, so whence do you know the happiness of fish?"

Zhuangzi said, "You are not I, so whence do you know I don't know the happiness of fish?"

Huizi said, "I am not you, to be sure, so I don't know what it is to be you. But by the same token, since you are certainly not a fish, my point about your inability to know the happiness of fish stands intact."

Zhuangzi said, "Let's go back to the starting point. You said, 'Whence do you know the happiness of fish?' Since your question was premised on your knowing that I know it, I must have known it from here, up above the Hao River."
 
2013-09-05 10:58:54 AM  

maddogdelta: Mr Popey sez that fish isn't meat, so its ok to eat on Fridays.  And Mr. Popey can't make mistakes, he said so.


Bill Clinton agrees.
 
2013-09-05 11:07:13 AM  

Lady Indica: When we see 'flailing' or any type of stimulus response, we assume there has to be thought or discomfort behind it...but there doesn't. (Hot potato). And in much less complex creatures they simply do not have the brain capacity or structure to experience a lot of what we do...on any level.


There have been some recent studies suggesting that crabs feel pain, not just a direct response to the stimulus but a long-term change in behavior to avoid having it happen again.
 
2013-09-05 11:09:59 AM  
I kinda like the old classification of 'meat, fish, poultry'.  They cook differently and taste way different after all.

None of these terms are scientific, so people up on their high horse saying it's all meat are just expressing an opinion, there's no "fact" behind it.  We use the term "meat" all the time to refer to the bulk of a piece of metal being machined, as in "make sure you leave enough meat under the hole so that it doesn't break when you put stress on it".
 
2013-09-05 11:11:08 AM  
Mmmmm, all you can eat sushi and sashimi last night was good.
 
2013-09-05 11:15:18 AM  

Aegius: Forget fish, are oysters meat?  I suppose even thought they function on level much closer to a plant.


Then there are squid and octopi. And remember that an egg is one single cell, from a single little pink salmon thingee to an ostrich egg bigger'n yer head,
 
2013-09-05 11:24:48 AM  
I thought it was okay to eat fish, because they don't have any feelings.
 
2013-09-05 11:33:35 AM  

mainsail: Yeah...but chicken is vegan, right?


Chicken are birds. Birds live in trees. Fruit lives in trees. Therefore, birds are fruit and chicken is vegan. Eat up.
 
2013-09-05 11:37:07 AM  
My google-fu sucks.

Homer: "fish? Hmmm, I'm not really a vegetarian..."

Homer Simpson on a double-decker bus in London pulling up to a fish and chips place.jpeg

/would've worked if I found the right pic
//I spent 5 minutes looking for it, I'm posting something, dammit.
///dammit.
 
2013-09-05 11:38:08 AM  

Grungehamster: I will say that's something that's always bugged me with the "fish can't feel pain" argument. Anyone who has ever caught a fish knows that it will fight and flail to get away with all it's strength, even if it's bleeding out and dying. That means they have to have some sort of rapid response system aimed at self preservation against dangerous stimuli. Sure it might not be experienced the same way as humans do, but "pain" has to exist in all animals to some degree simply because they have something driving them towards self-preservative behavior.


To paraphrase David foster Wallace after his exhaustive research into the nervous system of the lobster, that clattering you hear is the lobster expressing his preference to leave the pot.
 
2013-09-05 11:40:42 AM  

Deathfrogg: genepool lifeboat: mrEdude: We'd eat the lawyer too if there was no fish.

Empty calories.

And they cause dysentery.


Lawyers are so full of shiat I'd be more worried about norovirus.
 
2013-09-05 11:43:17 AM  

Onkel Buck: ko_kyi: Meat is murder.  Delicious, protein-packed murder.

[i26.photobucket.com image 320x192]
[i26.photobucket.com image 320x192]
/Murder steer approves


When the night is dark and stormy
And the ghost wind moans and chills,
They tell about the Murder Bull
That roams the Texas hills

There's many a year been born and died,
and still it roams the night
with MURDER branded on its side
in letters red and bright...
 
2013-09-05 11:48:59 AM  

Tax Boy: [24.media.tumblr.com image 500x251]


The smarter kids would realize that they are now on the menu instead.
 
2013-09-05 11:58:08 AM  
the entire college of Cardinals frowns on your Shenannigans:
asiantribune.com
 
2013-09-05 11:58:31 AM  

mod3072: unchellmatt: "They are not swimming vegetables"

Of course not. If they were, I wouldn't be deep frying the suckers.

Okra. Green beans. Dill pickles. Broccoli and cheese. Jalapeno poppers. All of these things are delicious when deep fried. You lose.


Wow, Okra, broccoli are one of the healthiest veggies available and you deep fry them? Here's are some tips:
Brocs: stir fry with garlic and olive oil for 5-7mins, and add a lil bit of chinese oyster sauce (or soy sauce) and stir fry for another minute and then pretend you're a brontosaurus.
Okra: just pop them in a slow boiled curry to add thickness.

(okra is also really good for cholesterol if u leave chopped ones in a glass of water for a day in the fridge, and slurp the gooey thing for breakfast....My dad does that, I wouldn't)
 
2013-09-05 11:58:38 AM  

THX 1138: "They're made out of meat."

     "Meat?"

     "Meat. They're made out of meat."

     "Meat?"

     "There's no doubt about it. We picked up several from different parts of the planet, took them aboard our recon vessels, and probed them all the way through. They're completely meat."

     "That's impossible. What about the radio signals? The messages to the stars?"

     "They use the radio waves to talk, but the signals don't come from them. The signals come from machines."

     "So who made the machines? That's who we want to contact."

     "They made the machines. That's what I'm trying to tell you. Meat made the machines."

     "That's ridiculous. How can meat make a machine? You're asking me to believe in sentient meat."

     "I'm not asking you, I'm telling you. These creatures are the only sentient race in that sector and they're made out of meat."

     "Maybe they're like the orfolei. You know, a carbon-based intelligence that goes through a meat stage."

     "Nope. They're born meat and they die meat. We studied them for several of their life spans, which didn't take long. Do you have any idea what's the life span of meat?"

     "Spare me. Okay, maybe they're only part meat. You know, like the weddilei. A meat head with an electron plasma brain inside."

     "Nope. We thought of that, since they do have meat heads, like the weddilei. But I told you, we probed them. They're meat all the way through."

     "No brain?"

     "Oh, there's a brain all right. It's just that the brain is made out of meat! That's what I've been trying to tell you."

     "So ... what does the thinking?"

     "You're not understanding, are you? You're refusing to deal with what I'm telling you. The brain does the thinking. The meat."

     "Thinking meat! You're asking me to believe in thinking meat!"

     "Yes, thinking meat! Conscious meat! Loving meat. Dreaming meat. The meat is the whole deal! Are you beginning to get the picture or do I have to start all over?"

     "Omigod. You're serious then. They're made out of meat."

     "Thank you. Finally. Yes. They are indeed made out of meat. And they've been trying to get in touch with us for almost a hundred of their years."

     "Omigod. So what does this meat have in mind?"

     "First it wants to talk to us. Then I imagine it wants to explore the Universe, contact other sentiences, swap ideas and information. The usual."

     "We're supposed to talk to meat."

     "That's the idea. That's the message they're sending out by radio. 'Hello. Anyone out there. Anybody home.' That sort of thing."

     "They actually do talk, then. They use words, ideas, concepts?"

     "Oh, yes. Except they do it with meat."

     "I thought you just told me they used radio."

     "They do, but what do you think is on the radio? Meat sounds. You know how when you slap or flap meat, it makes a noise? They talk by flapping their meat at each other. They can even sing by squirting air through their meat."

     "Omigod. Singing meat. This is altogether too much. So what do you advise?"

     "Officially or unofficially?"

     "Both."

     "Officially, we are required to contact, welcome and log in any and all sentient races or multibeings in this quadrant of the Universe, without prejudice, fear or favor. Unofficially, I advise that we erase the records and forget the whole thing."

     "I was hoping you would say that."

     "It seems harsh, but there is a limit. Do we really want to make contact with meat?"

     "I agree one hundred percent. What's there to say? 'Hello, meat. How's it going?' But will this work? How many planets are we dealing with here?"

     "Just one. They can travel to other planets in special meat containers, but they can't live on them. And being meat, they can only travel through C space. Which limits them to the speed of light and makes the possibility of their ever making contact pretty slim. Infinitesimal, in fact."

     "So we just pretend there's no one home in the Universe."

     "That's it."

     "Cruel. But you said it yourself, who wants to meet meat? And the ones who have been aboard our vessels, the ones you probed? You're sure they won't remember?"

     "They'll be considered crackpots if they do. We went into their heads and smoothed out their meat so that we're just a dream to them."

     "A dream to meat! How strangely appropriate, that we should be meat's dream."

     "And we marked the entire sector unoccupied."

     "Good. Agreed, officially and unofficially. Case closed. Any others? Anyone interesting on that side of the galaxy?"

     "Yes, a rather shy but sweet hydrogen core cluster intelligence in a class nine star in G445 zone. Was in contact two galactic rotations ago, wants to be friendly again."

     "They always come around."

     "And why not? Imagine how unbearably, how unutterably cold the Universe would be if one were all alone ..."


I've read this somewhere...
 
2013-09-05 12:05:21 PM  

Grungehamster: I will say that's something that's always bugged me with the "fish can't feel pain" argument. Anyone who has ever caught a fish knows that it will fight and flail to get away with all it's strength, even if it's bleeding out and dying. That means they have to have some sort of rapid response system aimed at self preservation against dangerous stimuli. Sure it might not be experienced the same way as humans do, but "pain" has to exist in all animals to some degree simply because they have something driving them towards self-preservative behavior.


The debate is whether or not that behavior is reflexive or reflective. Is it just an instinctive reaction like a flatworm, or do fish think "about" pain as some other animals do?

Either way, it's a weak argument for or against fishing designed to fan the flames, not reolve anything.
 
2013-09-05 12:06:03 PM  

durbnpoisn: At last I can agree with something someone from PETA says.  I've often found the most ridiculous hypocrisy in those that say, "I don't eat meat, except fish."  That makes you sound like an idiot.  An idiot that is not aware of what fish are made of.


Goes back to Catholicism I'm afraid, on "Rogation Days" like Fridays in lent now and all Fridays in prior times, Catholics are not supposed to eat meat.   However Fish and seasfood are exempt from that prohibition.   Why?  Well the first Pope was also a Fisherman, and probably still had a part interest in his fishing fleet, soo do I really need to spell this out for ya?
 
2013-09-05 12:09:55 PM  
Then don't eat it.
 
2013-09-05 12:10:45 PM  
Beaver=fish

True story.
 
2013-09-05 12:13:19 PM  

KrispyKritter: mainsail: Yeah...but chicken is vegan, right?

chicken: the other white meat?

/ Chicken of the Sea - total confusion


A friend of mine, who said he was "mostly vegitarian" always referred to chicken as "the fruit with feathers".
 
2013-09-05 12:20:42 PM  

stryed: mod3072: unchellmatt: "They are not swimming vegetables"

Of course not. If they were, I wouldn't be deep frying the suckers.

Okra. Green beans. Dill pickles. Broccoli and cheese. Jalapeno poppers. All of these things are delicious when deep fried. You lose.

Wow, Okra, broccoli are one of the healthiest veggies available and you deep fry them? Here's are some tips:
Brocs: stir fry with garlic and olive oil for 5-7mins, and add a lil bit of chinese oyster sauce (or soy sauce) and stir fry for another minute and then pretend you're a brontosaurus.
Okra: just pop them in a slow boiled curry to add thickness.

(okra is also really good for cholesterol if u leave chopped ones in a glass of water for a day in the fridge, and slurp the gooey thing for breakfast....My dad does that, I wouldn't)


If you take the okra slime and let it dry out, then break it up at snort it, you'll trip balls.
 
2013-09-05 12:23:49 PM  

Yes please: ko_kyi: Meat is murder.  Delicious, protein-packed murder.

If you eat a steak you're responsible for about 1% of a murder. If you eat a shrimp cocktail you're a serial killer. Justify that, I only eat fish vegetarians.


I've hit up Red Lobster's Endless shrimp 5 times this year already.

What does that make me?

/Aside from fat.
 
2013-09-05 12:30:31 PM  

stryed: mod3072: unchellmatt: "They are not swimming vegetables"

Of course not. If they were, I wouldn't be deep frying the suckers.

Okra. Green beans. Dill pickles. Broccoli and cheese. Jalapeno poppers. All of these things are delicious when deep fried. You lose.

Wow, Okra, broccoli are one of the healthiest veggies available and you deep fry them? Here's are some tips:
Brocs: stir fry with garlic and olive oil for 5-7mins, and add a lil bit of chinese oyster sauce (or soy sauce) and stir fry for another minute and then pretend you're a brontosaurus.
Okra: just pop them in a slow boiled curry to add thickness.

(okra is also really good for cholesterol if u leave chopped ones in a glass of water for a day in the fridge, and slurp the gooey thing for breakfast....My dad does that, I wouldn't)


I'm pretty sure the list is only meant to discredit the "if they were vegetables, I wouldn't deep fry them" bit.  Not a "these are all the vegetable that are eaten deep fried, and only deep fried.

Y SO SERIOUS?  :)
 
2013-09-05 12:30:54 PM  
I don't believe all fish have a central nervous system... like Clams and Oysters.
 
2013-09-05 12:31:35 PM  

Andy Andy: mainsail: Yeah...but chicken is vegan, right?

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 320x240]

Am I red meat yet?


Beautiful.

(obscure only to the historically deficient)
 
2013-09-05 12:31:58 PM  
see this is why those non-incarcerated get the opinion that prison is a "country club" which is not. but people read this crap and all of a sudden it's "and they watch t.v. too!"
/I wonder what's on the menu at a prison in El Salvador today?
//and can you get kosher?
 
2013-09-05 12:38:53 PM  
I only eat animals that kill plants for food. So, just categorize me as a plant defender against the evil vegetarian killers.

//They kill plants and then eat their kill. *GASP*
 
2013-09-05 12:45:44 PM  
DEEP THOUGHTS WITH FISH
 
2013-09-05 12:46:01 PM  
Strange, I've been calling them meat-tubes for years.
 
2013-09-05 12:47:54 PM  

Via Infinito: 21- So I guess I should become a vegetarian?
24 - No, everything living has a soul. Even spinach. You can't win.


Humans are designed to, and function best when, they eat other creatures. This is a scientific fact.

/suck it vegans.
 
2013-09-05 12:55:52 PM  

Lee Jackson Beauregard: If he'd practiced that Buddhist life of nonviolence, perhaps he wouldn't be in the pokey.


I'm guessing he converted to Buddhism after he was incarcerated.
 
TWX
2013-09-05 12:58:09 PM  

one-in-the-chamber: see this is why those non-incarcerated get the opinion that prison is a "country club" which is not. but people read this crap and all of a sudden it's "and they watch t.v. too!"
/I wonder what's on the menu at a prison in El Salvador today?
//and can you get kosher?


I have a simple solution...

Since the military has meals for Kosher diets and for vegetarians, serve him surplus C-rations for veggies.

/Vegetarianism isn't a religion in of itself
//it shouldn't be treated that way
///if he wants to convert to a religion that practices it then maybe he'd be entitled, maybe.
 
2013-09-05 01:00:29 PM  

Madbassist1: Humans are designed ... This is a scientific fact.


See, I'm just going to have to disagree with you on that.
 
2013-09-05 01:02:49 PM  
Another command in Buddhism is to "eat what is given to you" (provided, of course, that it is actually edible). This prevents many itinerant monks from being strict vegetarians, because people (including other Buddhists) will sometimes offer them meat. One could argue that it is admirable for the man to protest, but by the dictates of his own faith, he can and in fact should still eat the fish.
 
2013-09-05 01:04:18 PM  

js34603: mainsail: Yeah...but chicken is vegan, right?

Sorry, no. I heard porterhouses are OK though.


1. PETA says animals have rights and privledges the same as people
2. You are what you eat.
3. Therefore Grain fed Cattle are a grain, which is not meat.
4. Enjoy your grainloaf, with gravy of course.
 
2013-09-05 01:09:03 PM  
My brother does not approve of hunting, but he fishes.  I've made the argument to him before that fishing is every bit as cruel if not more-so than hunting.  The typical kill when hunting is supposed to kill the animal with one shot.  The kill in fishing typically comes from the fish slowly suffocating inside an ice box.  Fish are ugly though.  It's easier to not care about them.  Me personally, I don't care about my meals' feelings, hopes, aspirations, or even species to an extent.  If it's tasty meat, then it's tasty meat.  I was given incisors to chew flesh, and I'm going to use them dammit!
 
2013-09-05 01:16:39 PM  
I'll never understand why so many farkers (and people in general, I guess) seem threatened by vegetarians.
 
2013-09-05 01:17:46 PM  

Lee Jackson Beauregard: If he'd practiced that Buddhist life of nonviolence, perhaps he wouldn't be in the pokey.


Most people are in jail for drugs. So he probably smoked a joint once.
 
2013-09-05 01:23:05 PM  

THX 1138: Animals are made of meat, for fark's sake.


Yes, an immediate trigger to the Bisson story
  

THX 1138: You know how when you slap or flap meat, it makes a noise? They talk by flapping their meat at each other.


I love that story, and this line still makes me laugh, even after more than twenty years
 
2013-09-05 01:23:15 PM  

starsrift: THX 1138: starsrift: If you're going to copypaste a short story from the 90's, you could at least credit the author, you heathen.

- by Terry Bisson,  Omni, April 1991.  Nominated for the Nebula Award.

Are we good now?

Yup. :)


I just automatically assumed he was plagiarizing (not just him, any fark user) and looked it up myself. That's how I found the collected works of John G Ballard when some farker posted part of a story about such overcrowding that people lived in a legal maximum of 4 square meter blocks of space.

This is Fark, not high school english. I just assume no orginal works unless otherwise proven.
 
2013-09-05 01:30:07 PM  

TinyFist: Beaver=fish

True story.


No, beaver just smells like fish
 
2013-09-05 01:31:44 PM  

stryed: Wow, Okra, broccoli are one of the healthiest veggies available and you deep fry them?


This is America, pal. If it can't be deep fried and/or shoved onto a stick, it ain't food.
 
2013-09-05 01:32:44 PM  
He should be fed a steady diet of brussel sprouts then, for the remainder of his sentence.
 
2013-09-05 01:34:47 PM  

mod3072: stryed: Wow, Okra, broccoli are one of the healthiest veggies available and you deep fry them?

This is America, pal. If it can't be deep fried and/or shoved onto a stick, it ain't food.


mmmmm... tempura
 
2013-09-05 01:35:40 PM  

BetterMetalSnake: Why are vegans fine killing plants? A life is a life. What makes animal life so special that killing thousands of innocent broccoli can be done with some sort of moral superiority?

Life feeds on life.


This, este, etc.

You can't even legitimately use the "But plants don't feel pain" excuse, either--it's actually been found that plants (including a lot of the common food species like tomatoes and brassica-family veggies like lettuce and broccoli and the like) as well as a surprising number of trees DO "scream" chemically when injured or under predation, and other plants within the vicinity increase levels of natural insecticides and/or bitterants depending on the particular nature of the chemical "scream" and its intensity.  This is pretty much directly analgous to how insects, particularly eusocial insects, communicate threats.

(This isn't even touching on plants that have hydrodynamic analogues to muscle systems and try to actively either get away from humans (touch-me-nots) or interpret human touch as a prey response (Venus flytraps and a few other predatory plants).  Venus flytraps and other predatory plants even have an analogue to our touch sensory system (despite not having a clear analogue to the nervous system proper)...)

And nope, can't even get out of it with fungi either; if eating plants is dubious because they can chemically scream, fungi may be even MORE dubious as the fungi are the sister group to animals within the unikonts.  (Yes, it sounds weird as hell, but in the actual big division within eukaryotes--unikonts (which tend to use mitochondria to produce energy thanks to endosymbiosis between early unikont eukaryotes and rickettsia) and bikonts (which tend to use chloroplasts to produce energy thanks to the same kind of endosymbiosis early in their evolutionary history--only with cyanobacteria)--actually tends to place animals and fungi as a sister group, just as it tends to place most "green things" (not just plants but plant-like living things) together.)

We won't even get into how Jains are more moral in a sense than the average vegan if the whole worry is "killing a living thing".  (Jains, of note, will not eat anything with a live culture or which involves the killing of a live bacterial or fungal culture--out of a sense of ahimsa or not knowingly killing other living beings.  Yes, this means beer (actually, pretty much all alcohol) is out as well as yogurt, cheese, and Quorn is RIGHT the fark out.)

Interestingly, Jains do NOT seem to have issues with consuming milk or eggs as long as the critters involved are treated humanely (as it is not taking life from a living being).  They also won't eat root vegetables (because the harvesting of them will kill the plant), only harvest those parts of plants that will not kill or otherwise severely injure the plant, and pretty much are ovo-lacto-leaf-eating-fructivores in practice.

/not Jain
//more recognising that life feeds on life and I do in my own way thank the life that sacrificed itself so I can live
///not a fan of fundamentalism of any stripe, including militant vegans who don't realise that some folks may actually need to consume animal-origin foods to remain healthy (yes, it happens, there are folks who HAVE to eat meat or become seriously anemic who CANNOT absorb iron from supplements or the usual vegetable sources--everyone's metabolism is different)
 
2013-09-05 01:43:04 PM  
Is this how meat eaters play dogpile on the criminal?

This thread is merely a chime in for the status quo robots!  Haven't you drones ever wondered why you feel obligated to defend your programming, like trained sea lions?  The responses in this thread not only show a total lack of empathy, but basic understanding of anatomy. I think deep down everyone here understands the difference between running over the grass with their lawnmower, and running over a dog with their lawn mower.  Yet you meat slaves squirm every which way to defend your fragile egos, its really quite sad to witness.

As Emerson wrote, "Tis said that the view of nature held by any people determine all their institutions." Is it any wonder that the American war machine keeps turning when its citizens hold such a lack of regard for the celebration of nature, in all its glory.

As Singer wrote, "When a human kills an animal for food, he is neglecting his own hunger for justice.  Man prays for mercy, but is unwilling to extend it to others."

As Shaw wrote "The worst sin toward our fellow creatures is not to hate them, but to be indifferent to them, that is the essence of inhumanity."

Oh the Irony of your farkers, always on the lookout for a post to hide your guilt within the rest of society. when in reality, your shallow minded responses to this article really just display an obsolete food orientation.  At least you all have that in common, and there is obviously power in numbers!

As Cardinal John Henry Newman wrote "Cruelty to animals is as if man didn't love God...there is something so dreadful, so satanic, in tormenting those who have never harmed us, and who cannot defend themselves, who are utterly in our power."

If you've ever wondered why heart disease, diabetes, obesity, and cancer are rampant in our culture, you only need look to a food thread on fark, where they vehemently defend that which is unhealthy to their body and soul like a chorus of computers lacking compunction.
 
2013-09-05 01:47:32 PM  

Science_Guy_3.14159: I don't believe all fish have a central nervous system... like Clams and Oysters.


???

Fish are vertebrates.  One of the requirements for being a fish is the existence of a central nervous system.

Clams and oysters are bivalve mollusks.  Yes, they live underwater but not every animal that does so is a fish.

They all fall under the category of delicious seafood, however.
 
2013-09-05 01:47:53 PM  

Lusebagage: As Cardinal John Henry Newman wrote "...there is something so dreadful, so satanic, in tormenting those who have never harmed us, and who cannot defend themselves, who are utterly in our power."


Sort of like how the Christian God did to Job?
 
2013-09-05 01:51:38 PM  

TinyFist: Beaver=fish

True story.


It's supposed to be about the sacrifice of not eating meat and the symbolism of eating fish. The catholics know perfectly well what is and isn't a fish but sometimes you're poor and don't have any fish so large aquatic rodents will have to do.
 
2013-09-05 01:56:30 PM  

Bag-o-Nugs: Sort of like how the Christian God did to Job?


Yes Bag, sort of like that!  As Chuck Palahniuk wrote in Damned, "The paradox: Is God a racist, homophobic, anti-Semitic ass? Or is God testing to see if I am?"
 
2013-09-05 01:57:59 PM  

THX 1138: I don't understand the mindset where some people draw arbitrary lines and declare that only red meat counts as meat, or only land animals (which adds chicken, turkey, etc) count as meat.

Fish are animals, just like land animals, but they just happen to live in water.  Hell, they're even vertebrates, which puts them a helluva lot closer to land animals we use for food than it puts them to invertebrates like squid or scallops.

They're animals.  Animals are made of meat, for fark's sake.


Do these people actually claim 'counts as meat' or are you assuming that from a statement like 'I don't eat X'?

The lines probably aren't arbitrary, but are either (1) drawn for something that you overlooked, (2) drawn for something that is rational but unimportant to you, (3) drawn for something that is objectively* stupid.

For an example of (1),  if the concern environmental, cows require 8 pounds of feed for one pound of meat. Pigs have a 4:1 ratio and chickens have a 2:1 ratio. So a good rule of thumb is don't eat mammals to combat environmental erosion.

For an example of (2), the closer an animal looks to human, the more it triggers a cannibalism aversion reflex. As a species, this is an understandable survival trait. As individuals, if the choice is between starving to death and eating a chimpanzee, sorry Bonzo.

For an example of (3), there are people that get offended if their shrink-wrapped supermarket flesh in any way resembles an animal. These people should not be allowed to eat meat.
 
2013-09-05 02:09:52 PM  

LindenFark: Do these people actually claim 'counts as meat' or are you assuming that from a statement like 'I don't eat X'?


I'm not assuming anything.  TFA clearly says that the Connecticut Department of Correction takes the position taken that fish does not count as meat.  It's in the first and the third paragraphs.  Did you not read it?
 
2013-09-05 02:12:06 PM  
Great Porn Dragon:  "plants...scream" chemically when injured"

They just don't have a brain, or nerves, or sensory organs, or vocal cords, or the ability to run away, but besides that, they are just like us!

The bigger question is, why do you feel obligated to defend your food choices with arguments you don't even truly believe?
 
2013-09-05 02:23:00 PM  

archbishop: Madbassist1: Humans are designed ... This is a scientific fact.

See, I'm just going to have to disagree with you on that.


You'll just have to be wrong, then.
 
2013-09-05 02:26:53 PM  

Great Porn Dragon: trees DO "scream" chemically when injured or under predation, and other plants within the vicinity increase levels of natural insecticides and/or bitterants depending on the particular nature of the chemical "scream" and its intensity. This is pretty much directly analgous to how insects, particularly eusocial insects, communicate threats.

 
2013-09-05 02:28:01 PM  

Madbassist1: Great Porn Dragon: trees DO "scream" chemically when injured or under predation, and other plants within the vicinity increase levels of natural insecticides and/or bitterants depending on the particular nature of the chemical "scream" and its intensity. This is pretty much directly analgous to how insects, particularly eusocial insects, communicate threats.


Post fail. Meant to post this with the above comment *facepalm*

recluse.me
 
2013-09-05 02:40:47 PM  
My interests include swimming, spawning, eating things that are small enough to fit in my mouth, and spawning.
 
2013-09-05 02:41:04 PM  
 
2013-09-05 02:46:36 PM  
Goddamn Kingdomists.  When will they learn?
 
2013-09-05 02:46:44 PM  

Lusebagage: If you've ever wondered why heart disease, diabetes, obesity, and cancer are rampant in our culture, you only need look to a food thread on fark, where they vehemently defend that which is unhealthy to their body and soul like a chorus of computers lacking compunction.


I looked and looked for this video clip, but I could not find it. I am fairly certain it's from "Through the Wormhole", which is about the only documentary series I regularly watch anymore.

The scene opens. A scientist is sitting at a table in the middle of a field. The table is set for dinner. There are sheep grazing behind him. His kitchen help sets down a small serving of some type of greens on his plate. He begins to eat.

Morgan: (paraphrased, obviously) Our brains need energy to think and function. We get that energy from food. Sheep
get their energy grazing in the meadow. How much grass would it take to power a human brain?

The server returns to the table pulls the cover off of a plate containing about a three foot ball of grass.

Morgan: The time it would take for a human to eat this much to power their bodies is prohibitive. All humans would do is eat. How are we to get the protein needed to power our bodies?

The server returns yet a third time. This time with a lambchop.

oh yes...


Preach all you want my sanctimonious brother. I ain't buying your schtick.
 
2013-09-05 02:57:34 PM  

mainsail: Yeah...but chicken is vegan, right?


it is in my house...
 
2013-09-05 03:12:10 PM  

maddogdelta: VeggieDelight: French fries?

Deep fried oreos, twinkies, beer and nutella are viable options for deep frying.


They're also healthy, if you do it right. Follow me on this one: Beer contains hops, which are green. That's close enough to being a vegetable for me. Therefore anything that is dipped in BEER batter before being fried can technically be considered a vegetable. You can now enjoy your state fair food guilt-free, my friend. You're welcome.
 
2013-09-05 03:31:59 PM  
SOYLENT GREEN IS PEOPLE!!!
 
2013-09-05 03:51:12 PM  

skozlaw: 69gnarkill69: Citation?

(I'll wait over here)

The idea that animals might not experience pain or suffering as humans do traces back at least to the 17th-century French philosopher, René Descartes, who argued that animals lack consciousness.[9][10][11]Researchers remained unsure into the 1980s as to whether animals experience pain, and veterinarians trained in the U.S. before 1989 were simply taught to ignore animal pain.[12]


I'll accept that. Please understand my skepticism of your claim when so many farkers pull facts from their ass and nobody calls them out.
 
2013-09-05 03:53:03 PM  
encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com
....and when there was no meat, we ate fowl.
....and when there was no fowl, we ate crawdad.
....and when there was no crawdad to be found, we ate sand.
 
2013-09-05 04:38:01 PM  

Lady Indica: We do give a shiat about things that have agency, and to what degree they have a mind. And there's a lot that is still debated. I personally tend to lean towards anthropomorphizing.


Stuff is still debated, but the trend line as we get more data and real studies is, "Hey, looks like more complex mammals are capable of abstract thought and emotion! Who knew!". One of the big ones that first proved emotion was a study that showed that dogs are capable of jealousy. Upon hearing about the study, every dog owner on the planet responded with, "no shiat, sherlock. Why are we giving you money for this, again?"

Next you'll tell me that the primary emotion of Cats is schadenfreude.
 
2013-09-05 04:40:35 PM  

Bag-o-Nugs: The kill in fishing typically comes from the fish slowly suffocating inside an ice box.


Not if you're doing it right. You're supposed to give them a quick, hard blow to the top of the head with a rock or the back of the knife. Done right, you crack the skull and kill them instantly.
 
2013-09-05 05:00:12 PM  

Bag-o-Nugs: My brother does not approve of hunting, but he fishes.  I've made the argument to him before that fishing is every bit as cruel if not more-so than hunting.  The typical kill when hunting is supposed to kill the animal with one shot.  The kill in fishing typically comes from the fish slowly suffocating inside an ice box.  Fish are ugly though.  It's easier to not care about them.  Me personally, I don't care about my meals' feelings, hopes, aspirations, or even species to an extent.  If it's tasty meat, then it's tasty meat.  I was given incisors to chew flesh, and I'm going to use them dammit!


www.scientificamerican.comimages.supportingservices.dkfiles.myopera.com

Humans don't really have much in the way of incisors.
 
2013-09-05 05:24:39 PM  
Yet, they still eat bee vomit.

Er, I mean, honey.

Because that is not an 'animal' product, right?
 
2013-09-05 05:34:41 PM  
www.thedeeparchives.com
some fish even cheat on their wifey
 
2013-09-05 05:41:07 PM  

JungleBoogie: Bag-o-Nugs: My brother does not approve of hunting, but he fishes.  I've made the argument to him before that fishing is every bit as cruel if not more-so than hunting.  The typical kill when hunting is supposed to kill the animal with one shot.  The kill in fishing typically comes from the fish slowly suffocating inside an ice box.  Fish are ugly though.  It's easier to not care about them.  Me personally, I don't care about my meals' feelings, hopes, aspirations, or even species to an extent.  If it's tasty meat, then it's tasty meat.  I was given incisors to chew flesh, and I'm going to use them dammit!

[www.scientificamerican.com image 259x171][images.supportingservices.dk image 259x173][files.myopera.com image 259x194]

Humans don't really have much in the way of incisors canines.


Fixed that for you, and in fact, the short canines in humans is NOT a sign that we're herbivores (in fact, the gorilla--which you showed as one of your exhibits--IS a great ape that IS exclusively herbivorous, and has the long-ass intestinal tract and big gut to go with it).

Short canines in Homo and Australopithecus are actually thought to be a neotenous trait--basically, young apes don't have huge canine teeth, and the australopithecine/human line doesn't either.  The thing is, canines in great apes are as much a sexual trait (particularly with male hominin apes, and often used in territorial fighting for mates) as anything used for hunting down prey; sexual competition of the sort that dominates chimpanzee and gorilla cultures wasn't as strong in the sub-clade that led to humans.

Chimpanzees actually have longer canines than the great ape that is closest to the Most Recent Common Ancestor of chimpanzees, bonobos and australopithecines (good old Ardipithecus)--there's some evidence to suggest that the long canines in chimps are due to social aggression.  (Bonobos, which are not as aggressive physically as chimpanzees, tend to have smaller canines in the Ardipithecus range.  In this case it may well be a reversion to the old type, as bonobos speciated from chimpanzees after chimps split from ardipithecines.)

To throw even more of a monkey wrench (pun intended) into things--there IS a known line of australopithecines that DID pretty much go to gorilla-style herbivory (Paranthropus spp., which would look a hell of a lot like Sasquatch if you ever met one face to face).  They developed big jaws and big sagittal crests (for big jaw muscles) and big guts (we can tell from their pelvises)--rather different than the line of australopithecines that eventually led to Homo (and which we do have some good evidence indicating omnivory).

Even worse, even those apes that HAVE big canines tend to NOT use them for hunting.  Chimpanzees are the one ape known to actively hunt for prey (besides man)...and, well, chimpanzees, just like us, use TOOLS to do this (the use of thrown stones and sticks has been documented, and most recently chimpanzees have been documented making primitive wooden spears).  Interestingly, hunting with chimpanzees is closely connected to sexual courting behaviour--he who brings home the bacon brings home the lovin', so to speak.

If we go beyond primates...there are a number of other species that have large canines but are completely herbivorous--musk deer (a rather basal deer clade that are damn near sabertoothed--again, it's all a sexual thing, these are not meat-eating deer) are a fun example.

On the other end, the closest living sister group to primates (the rodent/lagomorph clade) has a number of species that engage in frank omnivory but do not have hueg canines (and in some cases lack canine teeth at all); rats, in particular, are quite opportunistic omnivores (and will happily take down birds and mice if they can get hold of them; hell, anything you can eat, they can eat, for the most part).

Hence one has to be VERY careful at trying to associate canine size with predatory behaviour, especially in omnivorous species.  A better guide is either a long intestinal tract (longer than that of humans, comparatively--think more "length of gorilla intestinal tract") and/or evidence of primary or secondary ruminant behaviour (either something chews its cud--like cows--or passes "cud stool" and eats that (lagomorphs).
 
2013-09-05 06:41:19 PM  

Madbassist1: "Through the Wormhole"


Sounds like a metaphor for your tiny weenus!

Madbassist1: Morgan: (paraphrased, obviously) Our brains need energy to think and function. We get that energy from food. Sheep get their energy grazing in the meadow. How much grass would it take to power a human brain?


I know exactly how much, about 1800-2300 calories worth a day.  You know humans don't eat grass, and its quite simply when eating a balanced diet of fruits, vegetables, legumes, and grains to get over 2300 calories a day.  All 20 "essential amino acids" (which are the building blocks of ALL proteins in your body) ultimately come from a plant based source, none of them are manufactured or synthesized within an animal.

Madbassist1: Preach all you want my sanctimonious brother. I ain't buying your schtick.


What is more "sanctimonious" in your opinion, treating other living beings like objects, by stealing their purpose, controlling their reproductive cycles, hyper confining them and mutilating them, or the person that tells you that's wrong, and that eating them is going to make you ill, and probably give you heart disease, diabetes, and cancer, not to mention make you fat? Think about it.

like I said , this is how meat eaters play dogpile on the criminal?  ..and since he claims to be vegetarian, the carnists cant help in feeling better than him, so pile on they must, like school children.

This thread is merely a chime in for the status quo robots!  Haven't you drones ever wondered why you feel obligated to defend your programming, like trained sea lions?  The responses in this thread not only show a total lack of empathy, but basic understanding of anatomy. I think deep down everyone here understands the difference between running over the grass with their lawnmower, and running over a dog with their lawn mower.  Yet you meat slaves squirm every which way to defend your fragile egos, its really quite sad to witness.

As Emerson wrote, "Tis said that the view of nature held by any people determine all their institutions." Is it any wonder that the American war machine keeps turning when its citizens hold such a lack of regard for the celebration of nature, in all its glory.

As Singer wrote, "When a human kills an animal for food, he is neglecting his own hunger for justice.  Man prays for mercy, but is unwilling to extend it to others."

As Shaw wrote "The worst sin toward our fellow creatures is not to hate them, but to be indifferent to them, that is the essence of inhumanity."

As Cardinal John Henry Newman wrote "Cruelty to animals is as if man didn't love God...there is something so dreadful, so satanic, in tormenting those who have never harmed us, and who cannot defend themselves, who are utterly in our power."

Oh the Irony of your farkers, always on the lookout for a post to hide your guilt within the rest of society. when in reality, your shallow minded responses to this article really just display an obsolete food orientation.  At least you all have that in common, and there is obviously power in numbers! 
If you've ever wondered why heart disease, diabetes, obesity, and cancer are rampant in our culture, you only need look to a food thread on fark, where they vehemently defend that which is unhealthy to their body and soul like a chorus of computers lacking compunction.
 
2013-09-05 07:24:21 PM  

THX 1138: LindenFark: Do these people actually claim 'counts as meat' or are you assuming that from a statement like 'I don't eat X'?

I'm not assuming anything.  TFA clearly says that the Connecticut Department of Correction takes the position taken that fish does not count as meat.  It's in the first and the third paragraphs.  Did you not read it?


In the lengthy context of the thread, it's not obvious that your comment about "some people" was about some people in TFA. I was responding to the general comment it sounded like.
 
2013-09-05 07:25:43 PM  

unchellmatt: "They are not swimming vegetables"

Of course not. If they were, I wouldn't be deep frying the suckers.


Clearly, you are not Southern. That's the only way we know to eat vegetables. That's the only way we know to eat anything.
 
2013-09-05 08:20:46 PM  

cptjeff: Lady Indica: We do give a shiat about things that have agency, and to what degree they have a mind. And there's a lot that is still debated. I personally tend to lean towards anthropomorphizing.

Stuff is still debated, but the trend line as we get more data and real studies is, "Hey, looks like more complex mammals are capable of abstract thought and emotion! Who knew!". One of the big ones that first proved emotion was a study that showed that dogs are capable of jealousy. Upon hearing about the study, every dog owner on the planet responded with, "no shiat, sherlock. Why are we giving you money for this, again?"

Next you'll tell me that the primary emotion of Cats is schadenfreude.


My dog headbutted my brother because of jealousy. It was hilarious.  My mother would 'call' on me in a specific manner and my dog would come to basically stake his place as the 'favorite'.  Then he stopped doing it (he knew it was a schtick) so my mother proceeded to do it with my brother when he was home. Dog did not like that, brother was leaning toward my mother was if to hug her. Wham, headbutt and dog in mother's lap for petting (beagle, not lap dog)..
 
2013-09-05 09:32:35 PM  
Fish for sport only. The meat of the fish is like a vegetable. - Ron Swanson
 
2013-09-05 09:58:33 PM  
orthodoxnorth.net
 
2013-09-06 01:07:09 AM  
You're a rapist, and you got busted.  You no longer get to choose your own menu.  Perhaps is you were not a scumbag, you would have rights, but as things stand, eat what you are given or don't eat, nobody cares.
 
2013-09-06 02:35:44 AM  
He's right. All that is true.

But humans are natural predators. It's the way the world works, my friend. Why isn't PETA protesting that cats kill birds?
 
2013-09-06 12:05:26 PM  

Lusebagage:

like I said , this is how meat eaters play dogpile on the criminal?  ..and since he claims to be vegetarian, the carnists cant help in feeling better than him, so pile on they must, like school children.

This thread is merely a chime in for the status quo robots!  Haven't you drones ever wondered why you feel obligated to defend your programming, like trained sea lions?...

Lusebagage 2013-09-05 01:43:04 PM

Is this how meat eaters play dogpile on the criminal?...This thread is merely a chime in for the status quo robots! Haven't you drones ever wondered why you feel obligated to blah blah blah tape recorder blah...


Hi.

How many times are you gonna repeat that same speech?
And why does it have that peculiarly copy/pasted feel?
 
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