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(CBS News)   "Clearly fish is meat," said Jeff Kerr, an attorney for PETA. "They have thoughts. They have interests. They have a central nervous system. They are not swimming vegetables"   (cbsnews.com) divider line 160
    More: Stupid, PETA, Dietary Reference Intake, vegetarians, Institutionalized Persons Act, Department of Corrections, Religious Land Use  
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4800 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Sep 2013 at 8:22 AM (46 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-05 08:03:19 AM
Presumably he'd be OK with raping the fish, however.
 
2013-09-05 08:22:21 AM
21- So I guess I should become a vegetarian?
24 - No, everything living has a soul. Even spinach. You can't win.
 
2013-09-05 08:23:21 AM
He forgot to mention tasty.
 
2013-09-05 08:26:22 AM
"They are not swimming vegetables"

Of course not. If they were, I wouldn't be deep frying the suckers.
 
2013-09-05 08:26:36 AM
While I've never considered the profound interests of fish, I do agree that they are a type of meat. Tasty, lean and healthy.
 
2013-09-05 08:26:56 AM
Yeah...but chicken is vegan, right?
 
2013-09-05 08:28:21 AM

mainsail: Yeah...but chicken is vegan, right?


Sorry, no. I heard porterhouses are OK though.
 
2013-09-05 08:28:24 AM
If he'd practiced that Buddhist life of nonviolence, perhaps he wouldn't be in the pokey.
 
2013-09-05 08:28:26 AM

mainsail: Yeah...but chicken is vegan, right?


chicken: the other white meat?

/ Chicken of the Sea - total confusion
 
2013-09-05 08:28:37 AM
If fish were so smart they'd pull those nets down to the sea floor by working together
 
2013-09-05 08:29:42 AM

mainsail: Yeah...but chicken is vegan, right?


1.bp.blogspot.com

Am I red meat yet?
 
2013-09-05 08:30:18 AM
Vegans are murderers! They pollute the environment with all the fecal matter they use to raise the crops and the pesticides! The pesticides kill insects, small mammals, and birds! It causes cancers in humans and birth defects in babies! Down with vegans!
 
2013-09-05 08:31:27 AM
At last I can agree with something someone from PETA says.  I've often found the most ridiculous hypocrisy in those that say, "I don't eat meat, except fish."  That makes you sound like an idiot.  An idiot that is not aware of what fish are made of.
 
2013-09-05 08:32:27 AM
dilbert.com
 
2013-09-05 08:33:05 AM
Meat is murder.  Delicious, protein-packed murder.
 
2013-09-05 08:34:54 AM

durbnpoisn: At last I can agree with something someone from PETA says.  I've often found the most ridiculous hypocrisy in those that say, "I don't eat meat, except fish."  That makes you sound like an idiot.  An idiot that is not aware of what fish are made of.


"I don't eat meat except for fish" is fine. It's means you do eat meat... fish meat.

It's people who claim they are vegetarians who still eat fish that are the idiots.
 
2013-09-05 08:34:59 AM
i.imgur.com
 
2013-09-05 08:36:04 AM
I will say that's something that's always bugged me with the "fish can't feel pain" argument. Anyone who has ever caught a fish knows that it will fight and flail to get away with all it's strength, even if it's bleeding out and dying. That means they have to have some sort of rapid response system aimed at self preservation against dangerous stimuli. Sure it might not be experienced the same way as humans do, but "pain" has to exist in all animals to some degree simply because they have something driving them towards self-preservative behavior.
 
2013-09-05 08:36:08 AM
I don't understand the mindset where some people draw arbitrary lines and declare that only red meat counts as meat, or only land animals (which adds chicken, turkey, etc) count as meat.

Fish are animals, just like land animals, but they just happen to live in water.  Hell, they're even vertebrates, which puts them a helluva lot closer to land animals we use for food than it puts them to invertebrates like squid or scallops.

They're animals.  Animals are made of meat, for fark's sake.
 
2013-09-05 08:36:40 AM

unchellmatt: "They are not swimming vegetables"

Of course not. If they were, I wouldn't be deep frying the suckers.


French fries?
 
2013-09-05 08:37:48 AM

unchellmatt: "They are not swimming vegetables"

Of course not. If they were, I wouldn't be deep frying the suckers.


Let's not be hasty - fried zucchini flowers are amazing

Some would even call potatoes vegetables - so fries....


My ancestors did not kill their way to the top of the food chain just so I would abdicate from the throne they passed down to me.

// On the other hand, thanks to the foodies/vegans/grass-eaters, and other non-traditional eaters, I can get some great ingredients at my normal grocery store that my parents had never even heard of.  So there's that.
 
2013-09-05 08:38:21 AM

ko_kyi: Meat is murder.  Delicious, protein-packed murder.


i26.photobucket.com
i26.photobucket.com
/Murder steer approves
 
2013-09-05 08:38:26 AM

js34603: mainsail: Yeah...but chicken is vegan, right?

Sorry, no. I heard porterhouses are OK though.


Veal is sort of a vegetable. I think it may have touched a carrot as it frolicked in the garden
 
2013-09-05 08:38:41 AM
Seafood three times a week?

I need to get myself arrested. This oughta do it... I just add the magic "get arrested" words to my post:

Pressure cooker, backpack, nails, shoe bomb, my little pony.
 
2013-09-05 08:38:50 AM

ko_kyi: Meat is murder.  Delicious, protein-packed murder.


If you eat a steak you're responsible for about 1% of a murder. If you eat a shrimp cocktail you're a serial killer. Justify that, I only eat fish vegetarians.
 
2013-09-05 08:39:27 AM
Give them pasta all week long, problem solved
 
2013-09-05 08:42:18 AM
Why are vegans fine killing plants? A life is a life. What makes animal life so special that killing thousands of innocent broccoli can be done with some sort of moral superiority?

Life feeds on life.
 
2013-09-05 08:42:56 AM
"They're made out of meat."

     "Meat?"

     "Meat. They're made out of meat."

     "Meat?"

     "There's no doubt about it. We picked up several from different parts of the planet, took them aboard our recon vessels, and probed them all the way through. They're completely meat."

     "That's impossible. What about the radio signals? The messages to the stars?"

     "They use the radio waves to talk, but the signals don't come from them. The signals come from machines."

     "So who made the machines? That's who we want to contact."

     "They made the machines. That's what I'm trying to tell you. Meat made the machines."

     "That's ridiculous. How can meat make a machine? You're asking me to believe in sentient meat."

     "I'm not asking you, I'm telling you. These creatures are the only sentient race in that sector and they're made out of meat."

     "Maybe they're like the orfolei. You know, a carbon-based intelligence that goes through a meat stage."

     "Nope. They're born meat and they die meat. We studied them for several of their life spans, which didn't take long. Do you have any idea what's the life span of meat?"

     "Spare me. Okay, maybe they're only part meat. You know, like the weddilei. A meat head with an electron plasma brain inside."

     "Nope. We thought of that, since they do have meat heads, like the weddilei. But I told you, we probed them. They're meat all the way through."

     "No brain?"

     "Oh, there's a brain all right. It's just that the brain is made out of meat! That's what I've been trying to tell you."

     "So ... what does the thinking?"

     "You're not understanding, are you? You're refusing to deal with what I'm telling you. The brain does the thinking. The meat."

     "Thinking meat! You're asking me to believe in thinking meat!"

     "Yes, thinking meat! Conscious meat! Loving meat. Dreaming meat. The meat is the whole deal! Are you beginning to get the picture or do I have to start all over?"

     "Omigod. You're serious then. They're made out of meat."

     "Thank you. Finally. Yes. They are indeed made out of meat. And they've been trying to get in touch with us for almost a hundred of their years."

     "Omigod. So what does this meat have in mind?"

     "First it wants to talk to us. Then I imagine it wants to explore the Universe, contact other sentiences, swap ideas and information. The usual."

     "We're supposed to talk to meat."

     "That's the idea. That's the message they're sending out by radio. 'Hello. Anyone out there. Anybody home.' That sort of thing."

     "They actually do talk, then. They use words, ideas, concepts?"

     "Oh, yes. Except they do it with meat."

     "I thought you just told me they used radio."

     "They do, but what do you think is on the radio? Meat sounds. You know how when you slap or flap meat, it makes a noise? They talk by flapping their meat at each other. They can even sing by squirting air through their meat."

     "Omigod. Singing meat. This is altogether too much. So what do you advise?"

     "Officially or unofficially?"

     "Both."

     "Officially, we are required to contact, welcome and log in any and all sentient races or multibeings in this quadrant of the Universe, without prejudice, fear or favor. Unofficially, I advise that we erase the records and forget the whole thing."

     "I was hoping you would say that."

     "It seems harsh, but there is a limit. Do we really want to make contact with meat?"

     "I agree one hundred percent. What's there to say? 'Hello, meat. How's it going?' But will this work? How many planets are we dealing with here?"

     "Just one. They can travel to other planets in special meat containers, but they can't live on them. And being meat, they can only travel through C space. Which limits them to the speed of light and makes the possibility of their ever making contact pretty slim. Infinitesimal, in fact."

     "So we just pretend there's no one home in the Universe."

     "That's it."

     "Cruel. But you said it yourself, who wants to meet meat? And the ones who have been aboard our vessels, the ones you probed? You're sure they won't remember?"

     "They'll be considered crackpots if they do. We went into their heads and smoothed out their meat so that we're just a dream to them."

     "A dream to meat! How strangely appropriate, that we should be meat's dream."

     "And we marked the entire sector unoccupied."

     "Good. Agreed, officially and unofficially. Case closed. Any others? Anyone interesting on that side of the galaxy?"

     "Yes, a rather shy but sweet hydrogen core cluster intelligence in a class nine star in G445 zone. Was in contact two galactic rotations ago, wants to be friendly again."

     "They always come around."

     "And why not? Imagine how unbearably, how unutterably cold the Universe would be if one were all alone ..."
 
2013-09-05 08:43:02 AM
Fish is meat.  Birds are meat.

Pretty simple.
 
2013-09-05 08:44:06 AM

Grungehamster: I will say that's something that's always bugged me with the "fish can't feel pain" argument.


That's not unique to fish, it's a stupid thing that a lot of people, including a good chunk of biologists, said about all animals at least into the 90s. For a very long time the position was that animals don't feel pain because there's no positive proof that animals feel pain. It was even a "fact" that was used to teach veterinarians to actually ignore discomfort in animals they were treating. It didn't really fall out of favor as a guiding idea until around 20 years ago when people started to think "gee, maybe the odds are a lot better that they do than they don't since they have, you know, nervous systems and display behaviors that appear to be very much like what we know to be human discomfort".
 
2013-09-05 08:44:34 AM

BetterMetalSnake: Life feeds on life.


These are the cries of the carrots, the cries of the carrots! You see, Reverend Maynard, tomorrow is harvest day and to them it is the holocaust!

This is necessary.
 
2013-09-05 08:46:07 AM
Plants also have primitive intelligence and are known to communicate with each other and call for help when being eaten or threatened. The idea that you are morally superior because your food doesn't have a face is laughable.
 
2013-09-05 08:48:34 AM
Mr Popey sez that fish isn't meat, so its ok to eat on Fridays.  And Mr. Popey can't make mistakes, he said so.
 
2013-09-05 08:48:48 AM

BetterMetalSnake: Why are vegans fine killing plants? A life is a life. What makes animal life so special that killing thousands of innocent broccoli can be done with some sort of moral superiority?


Are you aware that vegetables are not conscious? That is one of several key differences that makes animals and plants fundamentally different things?

/ okay... I'll grant you that there's a lot of evidence on the politics tab that suggests otherwise, but I promise you that despite appearances, those posters are not actually partially literate vegetables
 
2013-09-05 08:49:47 AM

THX 1138: "They're made out of meat."


If you're going to copypaste a short story from the 90's, you could at least credit the author, you heathen.
 
2013-09-05 08:50:00 AM

VeggieDelight: French fries?


Deep fried oreos, twinkies, beer and nutella are viable options for deep frying.
 
2013-09-05 08:51:23 AM
Clearly the warden is an old school Roman Catholic who believes fish is not meat!
 
2013-09-05 08:51:39 AM

starsrift: If you're going to copypaste a short story from the 90's, you could at least credit the author, you heathen.


- by Terry Bisson,  Omni, April 1991.  Nominated for the Nebula Award.

Are we good now?
 
2013-09-05 08:53:49 AM

NicoFinn: While I've never considered the profound interests of fish, I do agree that they are a type of meat. Tasty, lean and healthy.


Oh, fish are renowned for their broad and eclectic interests. I remember a walleye named Kentrobu Shinsaw who lived under a frozen lake in Canada's northern territories, and you should have seen this fish's library. Granted it was underwater, but it was still amazing and so diverse. Everything from a first edition biography of Adrien-Marie Legendre to an anthology of Brazilian poets to a series of physics sketches by an early assistant of Einstein as he tried to help the old man figure out constants to molecular dimensions.

Kentrobu was a former mountaineer, drove a race car for two years in Spain until a crash left him with a broken dorsal fin that never set right and sometimes caused him to swim in circles when he got excited. He eschewed the snobby wine collecting and instead became a water connoisseur. He could tell you if water was from a pond, stream or sea, if the snowmelt where it originated had more conifers or deciduous trees, and even the region from where it originated. He used to explain the concept of the interplay between light and magnetic fields, how gravity explained particle theory, and the rather obscure topics of consciousness and perception between humans and animals.

Sadly, he was caught last April by an angler named Chuck.
 
2013-09-05 08:55:42 AM

THX 1138: starsrift: If you're going to copypaste a short story from the 90's, you could at least credit the author, you heathen.

- by Terry Bisson,  Omni, April 1991.  Nominated for the Nebula Award.

Are we good now?


Yup. :)
 
2013-09-05 08:56:24 AM
24.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-09-05 08:58:51 AM

HailRobonia: durbnpoisn: At last I can agree with something someone from PETA says.  I've often found the most ridiculous hypocrisy in those that say, "I don't eat meat, except fish."  That makes you sound like an idiot.  An idiot that is not aware of what fish are made of.

"I don't eat meat except for fish" is fine. It's means you do eat meat... fish meat.

It's people who claim they are vegetarians who still eat fish that are the idiots.


They don't call  themselves vegetarians anymore. They call themselves pescatarians.
 
2013-09-05 08:59:20 AM

VeggieDelight: unchellmatt: "They are not swimming vegetables"

Of course not. If they were, I wouldn't be deep frying the suckers.

French fries?


Fried okra. Good stuff.
 
2013-09-05 09:03:22 AM

starsrift: THX 1138: starsrift: If you're going to copypaste a short story from the 90's, you could at least credit the author, you heathen.

- by Terry Bisson,  Omni, April 1991.  Nominated for the Nebula Award.

Are we good now?

Yup. :)


Seems unnecessary since this is Fark and nothing is obscure here. But citations are always good I guess.
 
2013-09-05 09:05:46 AM
Just use the right fishing tackle, and the poor creatures won't feel a thing.
85playgames.eval.hwcdn.net
 
2013-09-05 09:06:23 AM

Grungehamster: I will say that's something that's always bugged me with the "fish can't feel pain" argument. Anyone who has ever caught a fish knows that it will fight and flail to get away with all it's strength, even if it's bleeding out and dying. That means they have to have some sort of rapid response system aimed at self preservation against dangerous stimuli. Sure it might not be experienced the same way as humans do, but "pain" has to exist in all animals to some degree simply because they have something driving them towards self-preservative behavior.


I struggle with this too, but that doesn't mean they're feeling it.

I'm a big fan of ants. In one of the many, many docs. I've watched on them, I saw some ants in Argentina being killed by fire. The cowboys there do controlled burns. The ants haven't evolved to deal with fire in any way. They simply can't. So they do not respond to it. They continue to work, as the flames are close...and then just shut down. There's no flailing or anything else.

When we see 'flailing' or any type of stimulus response, we assume there has to be thought or discomfort behind it...but there doesn't. (Hot potato). And in much less complex creatures they simply do not have the brain capacity or structure to experience a lot of what we do...on any level.

And with ants, there's no thought at all. They're little robots. They have programming to do what they do, and its very limited. Because of how they process data, the more in a colony you have, the 'smarter' the colony is by virtue of processing power.

Anyhoo the question of agency is pretty important because we (humans) do give a shiat if something is an agent. We can't 'hurt' a rock, so fark rocks we don't have people caring about what happens to rocks. No one cares if you kick a stone. We do give a shiat about things that have agency, and to what degree they have a mind. And there's a lot that is still debated. I personally tend to lean towards anthropomorphizing.
 
2013-09-05 09:09:58 AM
Genju:
They don't call  themselves vegetarians anymore. They call themselves pescatarians.

Not to be confused with pescitarians, who are cannibals who hunger for the flesh of this guy:

aliasmissmellie.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-09-05 09:11:08 AM
Wait, I thought PETA firmly established that fish are kittens.  Mmmm.... Sea kittens.  Grilled golden brown with butter and garlic.  Just a squeeze of lemon at the end.  Served piping hot with a nice bed of rice and a nice, crisp salad.  Right.  It's decided.  Having Sea Kitten for lunch.
 
2013-09-05 09:13:49 AM
A story about fish and PETA and no mention of the Sea Kittens? http://features.peta.org/PETASeaKittens/
Fark, I am disappoint. :(
 
2013-09-05 09:14:18 AM
 
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