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(WTAE)   This just in. Reporting a credit card stolen to the police doesn't automatically cancel the card, as this county on the hook for a summer's $31k worth of stolen fuel discovered   (wtae.com) divider line 45
    More: Dumbass, Fayette County, Greene County, credit cards  
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5991 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Sep 2013 at 12:00 AM (50 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



45 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-09-04 08:24:45 PM
No, it doesn't, but to be fair there's no technical reason why it shouldn't.
 
2013-09-04 08:54:11 PM

nekom: to be fair there's no technical reason why it shouldn't.


What, the police have a red phone hotline to all of the credit card companies?
 
NFA [TotalFark]
2013-09-04 09:29:02 PM

kronicfeld: nekom: to be fair there's no technical reason why it shouldn't.

What, the police have a red phone hotline to all of the credit card companies?


THIS

I'm the first to call the cops idiots and crooks but they're not responsible for reporting stolen credit cards.  Everyone knows the cardholder is responsible for that.
 
2013-09-04 09:32:51 PM

nekom: No, it doesn't, but to be fair there's no technical reason why it shouldn't.


Yes there is a technical reason it doesn't, the police department is not the issuing bank.

Nobody can be that ignorant, well no one except a government employee.
 
2013-09-04 09:34:50 PM

NFA: I'm the first to call the cops idiots and crooks but they're not responsible for reporting stolen credit cards. Everyone knows the cardholder is responsible for that.


Yep... The first step when a card is stolen is to report it to the issuing bank. The county auditor should have noticed the continued unauthorized charges and cancelled the card ASAP... so apparently they weren't even putting in the minimal effort to do their job.
 
2013-09-04 09:37:04 PM

reported: NFA: I'm the first to call the cops idiots and crooks but they're not responsible for reporting stolen credit cards. Everyone knows the cardholder is responsible for that.

Yep... The first step when a card is stolen is to report it to the issuing bank. The county auditor should have noticed the continued unauthorized charges and cancelled the card ASAP... so apparently they weren't even putting in the minimal effort to do their job.


It also appears to be the same station over and over judging from the photographs.

Incompetence in government work, who would have thought?
 
2013-09-05 12:04:49 AM
Hey everyone, I've got a really good idea.  Lets give the police the power to cancel your credit cards.
 
2013-09-05 12:21:50 AM

nekom: No, it doesn't, but to be fair there's no technical reason why it shouldn't.


I can think of at least half a dozen off the top of my head.
 
2013-09-05 12:24:28 AM
Who can afford to pay for their own gas these days, anyway? shiat's expensive, yo.
 
2013-09-05 12:28:28 AM
If there was only someway the police could see a photo of the license plate of the truck so they could run it through DMV to find out who is behind all of this...
 
2013-09-05 12:35:56 AM

mikalmd: If there was only someway the police could see a photo of the license plate of the truck so they could run it through DMV to find out who is behind all of this...


ENHANCE ENHANCE ENHANCE!!!!
 
2013-09-05 01:00:17 AM
Here's how local government works:

The card was not "stolen".  Councilman Bubba and all of his friends and family have been passing it around for two years so they all get free gas on the county's dime.

Eventually Bubba gets told to knock it off, so suddenly it's "stolen" and a police report is filed and nobody is on the hook for all the missing money (except the taxpayers).
 
2013-09-05 01:07:31 AM
I didn't see anything in the article about the county being on the hook for the charges.  Last time I checked, you're not liable for fraudulent charges on your CC.
 
2013-09-05 01:08:22 AM

feckingmorons: Incompetence in government work, who would have thought?


I take it you don't routinely interact with other humans, haven't had a job, have never dealt with or had any awareness of how large organizations actually work, or are uniquely privileged to only have ever encountered the most incredibly responsible, on-task, universally-sharp human beings around? Regardless, congratulations on your willful ignorance or remarkable fortune.

There are incompetent, overworked, and/or unobservant people in all large organizations; they're present throughout society and large organizations, by the fact that they hire more people than smaller organizations, have a higher probability of having at least one such employee. But you keep on ignoring the tens of thousands of misses and reinforcing your wrong belief by focusing on the occasional hit.

/confirmation bias, how does it work?
 
2013-09-05 01:22:37 AM
From the article: "Police said video records show that various people used the card to purchase over 9,000 gallons of regular and diesel fuel."

Ummm... but didn't the police notice that the same guy with the white hat is in every picture? CowardlyLion's observations apply to the police too!
 
2013-09-05 01:34:50 AM
I'm mostly stunned that in one photo they apparently filled six drums worth of gas, plus I'd assume the truck, in one picture . At 55 gallons per drum and at $3 a gallon, there's over $1000 worth of fuel in one trip to the gas station. I'd be willing to bet the gas station owner was in on it since it's illegal to fill non-approved containers, never mind in the bed of a pickup truck without the proper placards. Not to mention it would take almost an hour to pump everything without being seen by the clerk
 
2013-09-05 01:54:24 AM

Honest Bender: I didn't see anything in the article about the county being on the hook for the charges.  Last time I checked, you're not liable for fraudulent charges on your CC.


It gets a little dicey if you know it's stolen and don't cancel it for months.
 
2013-09-05 02:01:07 AM

Honest Bender: I didn't see anything in the article about the county being on the hook for the charges.  Last time I checked, you're not liable for fraudulent charges on your CC.


That.

Someone's bank has the worst fraud detection system yet known...
 
2013-09-05 02:03:08 AM
The police might be able to try to get some information to find out who was responsible, but that means they will have to spend man hours doing things like investigating the crime without a promise of success.  And there isn't much profit in that unlike finding drunk drivers, writing speeding tickets, looking for drunk college students, ect.

No arrests have been made, and the investigation is continuing.

Who will be picking up that tab?
 
2013-09-05 02:06:05 AM

Honest Bender: I didn't see anything in the article about the county being on the hook for the charges.  Last time I checked, you're not liable for fraudulent charges on your CC.


Not if those charges are a year old. So the "town" is on the hook for most of it. For instance, the agreement for my CC (admittedly, something like 7 years old now) says "Fidelity Card Services must hear from you no later than 60 days after we sent you the first bill on which the error or problem appeared."
 
2013-09-05 02:10:30 AM
INSIDE JOB.
 
2013-09-05 02:11:33 AM

nekom: No, it doesn't, but to be fair there's no technical reason why it shouldn't.




Probably not but you know farkers are cheating.

amirite?
 
2013-09-05 05:14:40 AM

CowardlyLion: feckingmorons: Incompetence in government work, who would have thought?

I take it you don't routinely interact with other humans, haven't had a job, have never dealt with or had any awareness of how large organizations actually work, or are uniquely privileged to only have ever encountered the most incredibly responsible, on-task, universally-sharp human beings around? Regardless, congratulations on your willful ignorance or remarkable fortune.

There are incompetent, overworked, and/or unobservant people in all large organizations; they're present throughout society and large organizations, by the fact that they hire more people than smaller organizations, have a higher probability of having at least one such employee. But you keep on ignoring the tens of thousands of misses and reinforcing your wrong belief by focusing on the occasional hit.

/confirmation bias, how does it work?


peter principle: How does it work?
 
2013-09-05 05:21:30 AM

opiumpoopy: Honest Bender: I didn't see anything in the article about the county being on the hook for the charges.  Last time I checked, you're not liable for fraudulent charges on your CC.

That.

Someone's bank has the worst fraud detection system yet known...


It's not up to the bank to detect fraud.  They do try to detect it,but buying gas on a county credit card probably doesn't throw up a whole lot of red flags.

And I guarantee you if you go back more than a month or two your bank is going to tell you "too bad".  There is a time frame in which you have to report fraud to be protected.
 
2013-09-05 05:35:33 AM

CowardlyLion: feckingmorons: Incompetence in government work, who would have thought?

I take it you don't routinely interact with other humans, haven't had a job, have never dealt with or had any awareness of how large organizations actually work, or are uniquely privileged to only have ever encountered the most incredibly responsible, on-task, universally-sharp human beings around? Regardless, congratulations on your willful ignorance or remarkable fortune.

There are incompetent, overworked, and/or unobservant people in all large organizations; they're present throughout society and large organizations, by the fact that they hire more people than smaller organizations, have a higher probability of having at least one such employee. But you keep on ignoring the tens of thousands of misses and reinforcing your wrong belief by focusing on the occasional hit.

/confirmation bias, how does it work?


2 things:

1:  When such gross incompetence resulting in financial loss occurs in the private sector, people get fired
2:  Unless I'm a stockholder or have some other financial stake in the corporation that is incompetent, I'm not directly affected by it.
 
2013-09-05 06:32:42 AM

NFA: kronicfeld: nekom: to be fair there's no technical reason why it shouldn't.

What, the police have a red phone hotline to all of the credit card companies?

THIS

I'm the first to call the cops idiots and crooks but they're not responsible for reporting stolen credit cards.  Everyone knows the cardholder is responsible for that.


I'm willing to call them idiots and crooks for having a year's worth of surveillance video on the perps buying gasoline and not being able to make an arrest yet, however.
 
2013-09-05 06:49:36 AM
Did the article change since being greenlit?  Because the article:

a) doesn't say the county is on the hook for the charges, as the headline does, and

b) does say the card was reported stolen, but doesn't indicate whether it was reported to the bank or only to police.  Farkers earlier in the thread seem to all be under the impression that it was never reported to the bank.

So, updated article or just farkers making unsubstantiated assumptions?
 
2013-09-05 07:36:55 AM
Pretty impressive that some gas station that has rusted out pumps from 1973 has pictures that were not pulled off some VHS tape that has been re-used for the past 25 years.
 
2013-09-05 08:09:34 AM
Tomorrow's Headline:

Fayette County Announces Real Estate Tax Increase To Help Pay for Stupid
 
2013-09-05 08:25:56 AM

nekom: No, it doesn't, but to be fair there's no technical reason why it shouldn't.


Because Nanny State.
 
2013-09-05 08:55:52 AM

jjorsett: I'm willing to call them idiots and crooks for having a year's worth of surveillance video on the perps buying gasoline and not being able to make an arrest yet, however.


No way they have that much surveillance footage.  Most gas stations only keep their tapes for a week or two.
 
2013-09-05 08:59:20 AM

Honest Bender: I didn't see anything in the article about the county being on the hook for the charges.  Last time I checked, you're not liable for fraudulent charges on your CC.


To add to the other replies to your comment, the charges were likely already paid without notice until a clerk noticed the card was still active then added up what has been paid on the card since the card was reported stolen.  We are talking about an office situation with multiple people handling any given situation with one noticed card missing, reporting it and accounting just going along business as usual because no one told them the card was missing till much later.  It isn't like at home where the theft victim, secretary and accountant is all one person.

noitsnot: Here's how local government works:

The card was not "stolen".  Councilman Bubba and all of his friends and family have been passing it around for two years so they all get free gas on the county's dime.

Eventually Bubba gets told to knock it off, so suddenly it's "stolen" and a police report is filed and nobody is on the hook for all the missing money (except the taxpayers).


RTA. The card was reported stolen prior to the $31,000 spending.  No matter how it ends, the taxpayers are covering the tab.
 
2013-09-05 10:02:11 AM

RogermcAllen: Hey everyone, I've got a really good idea.  Lets give the police the power to cancel your credit cards.


Okay, that made me laugh out loud. The very concept!
 
2013-09-05 10:41:18 AM

feckingmorons: reported: NFA: I'm the first to call the cops idiots and crooks but they're not responsible for reporting stolen credit cards. Everyone knows the cardholder is responsible for that.

Yep... The first step when a card is stolen is to report it to the issuing bank. The county auditor should have noticed the continued unauthorized charges and cancelled the card ASAP... so apparently they weren't even putting in the minimal effort to do their job.

It also appears to be the same station over and over judging from the photographs.

Incompetence in government work, who would have thought?



There's plenty of incompetence in regular work, I don't know why you would think it's limited to just the government.  The difference is that less people can see it in companies.
 
2013-09-05 10:42:17 AM

TheHappyCanadian: I'm mostly stunned that in one photo they apparently filled six drums worth of gas, plus I'd assume the truck, in one picture . At 55 gallons per drum and at $3 a gallon, there's over $1000 worth of fuel in one trip to the gas station. I'd be willing to bet the gas station owner was in on it since it's illegal to fill non-approved containers, never mind in the bed of a pickup truck without the proper placards. Not to mention it would take almost an hour to pump everything without being seen by the clerk


From the pictures it looks like one of those commercial gas stations (similar to Pacific Pride or CFN).  No attendant present at those.  But yeah, how does one fill that many drums without a police officer driving past and asking questions?
 
2013-09-05 11:05:56 AM

Honest Bender: I didn't see anything in the article about the county being on the hook for the charges. Last time I checked, you're not liable for fraudulent charges on your CC.


If you timely report it, two years later is not timely.
 
2013-09-05 11:09:21 AM

CowardlyLion: feckingmorons: Incompetence in government work, who would have thought?

I take it you don't routinely interact with other humans, haven't had a job, have never dealt with or had any awareness of how large organizations actually work, or are uniquely privileged to only have ever encountered the most incredibly responsible, on-task, universally-sharp human beings around? Regardless, congratulations on your willful ignorance or remarkable fortune.

There are incompetent, overworked, and/or unobservant people in all large organizations; they're present throughout society and large organizations, by the fact that they hire more people than smaller organizations, have a higher probability of having at least one such employee. But you keep on ignoring the tens of thousands of misses and reinforcing your wrong belief by focusing on the occasional hit.

/confirmation bias, how does it work?


So do you work for he Federal, State or local government?

I do have to agree with you that there are incompetent, overworked and unobservant people in all large organizations. That is an excellent observation and supports my contention that we should make government smaller and more efficicient. It seems they have grown so large and unwieldy that incompetence is commonplace and expected as you so note.
 
2013-09-05 11:27:21 AM

TheHappyCanadian: I'm mostly stunned that in one photo they apparently filled six drums worth of gas, plus I'd assume the truck, in one picture . At 55 gallons per drum and at $3 a gallon, there's over $1000 worth of fuel in one trip to the gas station. I'd be willing to bet the gas station owner was in on it since it's illegal to fill non-approved containers, never mind in the bed of a pickup truck without the proper placards. Not to mention it would take almost an hour to pump everything without being seen by the clerk


You would think someone might notice that, or that someone might notice such an outrageous charge on a gas card and ask a question or two...

I'm with the guy upthread that said it was a case of corruption got out of hand.
 
2013-09-05 12:07:38 PM

TheHappyCanadian: I'm mostly stunned that in one photo they apparently filled six drums worth of gas, plus I'd assume the truck, in one picture . At 55 gallons per drum and at $3 a gallon, there's over $1000 worth of fuel in one trip to the gas station. I'd be willing to bet the gas station owner was in on it since it's illegal to fill non-approved containers, never mind in the bed of a pickup truck without the proper placards. Not to mention it would take almost an hour to pump everything without being seen by the clerk


This is not a retail fuel location with a store and a clerk like you're all thinking.This is a county run fuel depot used to fuel county vehicles only.They don't use "credit cards" in the sense that they are not like an Amex or something.They are magnetic swipe cards, but they have only a 13 digit number programmed on them.In the business we refer to them as proprietary cards.

The site in question clearly is using a Petrovend CoPT which does take credit card shaped object's but not a "credit card' that gets processed through a bank.The Petrovend system is a simple card lock system with a fuel site controller (FSC) in a building and the outdoor payment terminal (CoPT) to scan the card.These are then connected by something they call Petronet and they talk to each other.

Counties issue cards to either a person or a vehicle and that number is then programmed in to the FSC.When a card is dipped at the CoPT outside, the FSC inside verified that that number is in it's database and then turns around and authorizes the pump to activate.The county maintains the database of card numbers using PC software that accesses the FSC and uploads the card datato it (the FSC being the 'brain' of the system.)

When a county or municipal card goes missing, it is the job of the said county or municipality to set flags in their PC software that in turn tells the FSC that the card is no longer valid.When the card is used again, the user with then get a message that the card is no longer valid.

The person at the county that called the police should have set the flag in the software to disable the card as soon as the card went missing.I've seen it a thousand times.There was no credit card company to call.
 
2013-09-05 02:18:44 PM

feckingmorons: CowardlyLion: feckingmorons: Incompetence in government work, who would have thought?

I take it you don't routinely interact with other humans, haven't had a job, have never dealt with or had any awareness of how large organizations actually work, or are uniquely privileged to only have ever encountered the most incredibly responsible, on-task, universally-sharp human beings around? Regardless, congratulations on your willful ignorance or remarkable fortune.

There are incompetent, overworked, and/or unobservant people in all large organizations; they're present throughout society and large organizations, by the fact that they hire more people than smaller organizations, have a higher probability of having at least one such employee. But you keep on ignoring the tens of thousands of misses and reinforcing your wrong belief by focusing on the occasional hit.

/confirmation bias, how does it work?

So do you work for he Federal, State or local government?

I do have to agree with you that there are incompetent, overworked and unobservant people in all large organizations. That is an excellent observation and supports my contention that we should make government smaller and more efficicient. It seems they have grown so large and unwieldy that incompetence is commonplace and expected as you so note.


I do not work for the government (at any level). I was just calling you out on what--at least at the time--seemed to be a faulty assumption that the government was unique or significantly different from most other organizations in levels of employee competence.

That said, I would have to doubt that size, alone, would be the most important factor; I agree that having a smaller and more efficient government is (probably?) always desirable, but you can still have a small organization and incompetent/overworked/unobservant employees, potentially doing even more harm to the organization than if it was larger. I'm sure that someone (much much smarter than I am) has a reasonable theoretical/practical approach for minimizing employee errors. I'm kind of curious to know what such an approach would entail (and if, when used, there was a significant difference in employee performance).
 
2013-09-05 03:10:57 PM

The Irresponsible Captain: I'm with the guy upthread that said it was a case of corruption got out of hand.


Southwestern Pennsylfarkistan? Yer damned right it is.
 
2013-09-05 03:16:38 PM
The police are a law enforcement agency not connedcted with the credit card company.

You have to report it to the company itself, then your liability is limited to $50.

Every time I apply for a card, they try to sell me $30 worth of "insurance" a month against the chance I might lose a card and be out $50.

\\\ not likely.
 
2013-09-05 05:38:40 PM

AltheaToldMe: TheHappyCanadian: I'm mostly stunned that in one photo they apparently filled six drums worth of gas, plus I'd assume the truck, in one picture . At 55 gallons per drum and at $3 a gallon, there's over $1000 worth of fuel in one trip to the gas station. I'd be willing to bet the gas station owner was in on it since it's illegal to fill non-approved containers, never mind in the bed of a pickup truck without the proper placards. Not to mention it would take almost an hour to pump everything without being seen by the clerk

This is not a retail fuel location with a store and a clerk like you're all thinking.This is a county run fuel depot used to fuel county vehicles only.They don't use "credit cards" in the sense that they are not like an Amex or something.They are magnetic swipe cards, but they have only a 13 digit number programmed on them.In the business we refer to them as proprietary cards.

The site in question clearly is using a Petrovend CoPT which does take credit card shaped object's but not a "credit card' that gets processed through a bank.The Petrovend system is a simple card lock system with a fuel site controller (FSC) in a building and the outdoor payment terminal (CoPT) to scan the card.These are then connected by something they call Petronet and they talk to each other.

Counties issue cards to either a person or a vehicle and that number is then programmed in to the FSC.When a card is dipped at the CoPT outside, the FSC inside verified that that number is in it's database and then turns around and authorizes the pump to activate.The county maintains the database of card numbers using PC software that accesses the FSC and uploads the card datato it (the FSC being the 'brain' of the system.)

When a county or municipal card goes missing, it is the job of the said county or municipality to set flags in their PC software that in turn tells the FSC that the card is no longer valid.When the card is used again, the user with then get a message that the ca ...


That is what the pictures looked like, it was a fuel island not a gas station. It should have been quite easy to de-authorize that card. Do they never have anyone quit?
 
2013-09-05 09:14:35 PM
"Honey, remember that credit card we lost over a year ago? Got another bill and boy is it a doozy!"
 I'm surprised it didn't expire before it was canceled.
 
2013-09-05 11:31:56 PM

Fault at Hands: "Honey, remember that credit card we lost over a year ago? Got another bill and boy is it a doozy!"
 I'm surprised it didn't expire before it was canceled.


See my reply above.  Unless the county set the flag for an expiration date, the proprietary card would be valid in perpetuity.  As someone who has installed almost 100 of these systems, I can tell you that NO ONE sets the proper flags to prevent this kind of misuse.


The Irresponsible Captain: You would think someone might notice that, or that someone might notice such an outrageous charge on a gas card and ask a question or two...

I'm with the guy upthread that said it was a case of corruption got out of hand.


See my reply upthread.  It was a proprietary fueling card owned by the county and NOT a credit card processed through a bank.  That said, it could be an inside job by the county

Click me to see what a CoPT looks like and is supposed to do.
 
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