If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Salt Lake Tribune)   Will Utah's new school grading system erode support for public schools? The $tate GOP certainly hope$ $o   (sltrib.com) divider line 83
    More: Obvious, Utah, charter schools, letter grade, school website, language arts, Advanced Placement, private schools, college credit  
•       •       •

5227 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Sep 2013 at 2:37 PM (44 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



83 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

First | « | 1 | 2 | » | Last | Show all
 
2013-09-04 02:28:37 PM
There has to be a middle ground between absolutely no accountability at all for a school's performance (what teachers' unions want) and some metric that lets a parent know if they'll be graduating a retard.  Then perhaps we could use those metrics to divert money to schools that are failing.

Seems to me the only real way to do this is to pool school tax money statewide and then funnel it back to districts, since poorer districts are always at the bottom of whatever list you create.
 
2013-09-04 02:44:19 PM
It honestly confuses me what Republicans are trying to accomplish with their insanity, and I keep coming back to "Convert America into a Feudal Plutocracy". I used to joke about it, but now I'm starting to believe it.
 
2013-09-04 02:44:23 PM
Accountability, sure. Are private schools rated too?
 
2013-09-04 02:45:58 PM

Lsherm: There has to be a middle ground between absolutely no accountability at all for a school's performance (what teachers' unions want) and some metric that lets a parent know if they'll be graduating a retard.  Then perhaps we could use those metrics to divert money to schools that are failing.

Seems to me the only real way to do this is to pool school tax money statewide and then funnel it back to districts, since poorer districts are always at the bottom of whatever list you create.


Yeah, they do that here in Texas. It is called Robin Hood. None of our public schools are challenging, and the ones who benefit from Robin Hood still do a crappy job at educating their kids, even with the extra money.

Nuke the public school system nationwide. Its the only way to be sure.

Then we can start with a system that doesn't cater to the lowest denominator and makes us at least somewhat able to compete academically. it is the only way to regain our place in the world's scientific, academic, and financial arenas.
 
2013-09-04 02:48:00 PM
Glad to see the son of the founder of Amway wants to see public schools get trashed.

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2011/05/21/168363/billionaires-pri va tize-education/
 
2013-09-04 02:48:32 PM

Utah's new school grading system


This is your wake-up call! HE IS AN EFF! BEE! EYE! AGENT!

tropicsofmeta.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-09-04 02:48:55 PM

Old enough to know better: It honestly confuses me what Republicans are trying to accomplish with their insanity, and I keep coming back to "Convert America into a Feudal Christian Plutocracy". I used to joke about it, but now I'm starting to believe it.


Fixed for you.
 
2013-09-04 02:52:22 PM

DarkSoulNoHope: Glad to see the son of the founder of Amway wants to see public schools get trashed.

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2011/05/21/168363/billionaires-pri va tize-education/


Ugh. That makes my soul hurt.
 
2013-09-04 02:53:09 PM

StopLurkListen: Accountability, sure. Are private schools rated too?


rated on political donations.
 
2013-09-04 02:53:22 PM
And we all know that whatever the Government does, private industry is a bloated waste of money?  Sorry subby, I don't quite follow the trolling headline.
 
2013-09-04 02:55:41 PM
One problem is that in rural areas there is no alternative. There's no broadband, and the nearest school may be an hour on the bus for your kid. The next school over could well be two hours away, and just as bad.

Taking money away from the school because someone is using a voucher or home schooling certainly won't help the problem, it's just fewer resources for everyone else there.

I don't know what the answer is, but it's not the road we're going down and it involves giving more money to failing schools. You have to hire new people, pay enough money to lure good teachers out of better performing schools and into bad areas, buy new books and equipment, and sometimes even fix the holes in the roof.
 
2013-09-04 02:57:31 PM

Lsherm: There has to be a middle ground between absolutely no accountability at all for a school's performance (what teachers' unions want) and some metric that lets a parent know if they'll be graduating a retard.  Then perhaps we could use those metrics to divert money to schools that are failing.

Seems to me the only real way to do this is to pool school tax money statewide and then funnel it back to districts, since poorer districts are always at the bottom of whatever list you create.


What the fark do you really know about teachers unions besides what the elected representative and news has told you about the? Sweet fark all thats what.
 
2013-09-04 02:58:25 PM

Lsherm: ..... no accountability at all for a school's performance (what teachers' unions want).......

www.troll.me

 
2013-09-04 03:00:19 PM
If we outlaw public education then only criminals will get education.

except they are called born rich rather than criminals and their parents are against level playing fields.
 
2013-09-04 03:00:20 PM
It is a devious scheme. You can't put your political and religious indoctrination in the public schools so you slowly destroy them, while figuring a way to funnel the money to your Christian conservative madrasas; eventually making them the only choice of the poor for "education".

Cutting funding to under-performing schools which are already underfunded will not make them better.
 
2013-09-04 03:01:57 PM

Old enough to know better: It honestly confuses me what Republicans are trying to accomplish with their insanity, and I keep coming back to "Convert America into a Feudal Plutocracy". I used to joke about it, but now I'm starting to believe it.


That's good!  You should keep reading the same news sources!
 
2013-09-04 03:05:32 PM

The Irresponsible Captain: One problem is that in rural areas there is no alternative. There's no broadband, and the nearest school may be an hour on the bus for your kid. The next school over could well be two hours away, and just as bad.

Taking money away from the school because someone is using a voucher or home schooling certainly won't help the problem, it's just fewer resources for everyone else there.

I don't know what the answer is, but it's not the road we're going down and it involves giving more money to failing schools. You have to hire new people, pay enough money to lure good teachers out of better performing schools and into bad areas, buy new books and equipment, and sometimes even fix the holes in the roof.


So use a fractional voucher.  If someone wants out, don't give them a voucher worth 100% of the per-student value.  Give them 40% or whatever allows the voucher to become a benefit to the school system.  That way the school gets 60% of the per-kid value with one fewer child to pay for.  It's a win-win.
 
2013-09-04 03:11:34 PM
Nearly every public junior high and high school in Utah--certainly the ones in smaller towns--have a seminary building right next door, owned and operated by the LDS church.  Seminary classes (kinda like bible school) are scheduled just like any other class, and the school treats them like regular classes for attendance/graduation requirement purposes.  It's not like the religious folks there don't already have their hooks in the schools pretty deeply.
 
2013-09-04 03:11:50 PM

s1ugg0: Lsherm: ..... no accountability at all for a school's performance (what teachers' unions want).......

[www.troll.me image 552x414]


come watch the shenanigans of the LA Unified School district: Budget $1 BILLION dollars and they're still graudating morons. Teachers stealing or molesting kids? Can't fire them says the union - so they're sent to a special room, sometimes for years, at full pay. The've just embarked on a plan to give every child an iPad at a cost of $500 million. Exect now they've decide they forgot about keyboards....
they spent $500 to build 1 SCHOOL!
It's not the teachers that are the problem - it's the bloated administration and their union cronies.
Question: think any teacher's Union officials have taken a pay cut or reduced benefits?
 
2013-09-04 03:12:49 PM
Crap - that should be $500 million to buid 1 school.....
 
2013-09-04 03:19:32 PM
Great idea, giving parents more power. It's not as if they ever want to ban books, have more prayer in school, remove evolution from the curriculum, or teach abstinence only.
 
2013-09-04 03:20:57 PM

Old enough to know better: It honestly confuses me what Republicans are trying to accomplish with their insanity, and I keep coming back to "Convert America into a Feudal Plutocracy". I used to joke about it, but now I'm starting to believe it.


their goal is to return america to the late 19th century. the gilded age of robber barons. this isn't a joke; this is their objective.
 
2013-09-04 03:24:48 PM
I went to private school in Mexico all the way up to my senior year in HS here in Utah. What's crazy is that the infrastructure we have at my school in Mexico is still below what public education gets here. Soccer field AND Football STADIUM. Multiple choices for second language requirement (we were taught in French, that's it). You have multiple teachers to each subject to chose from and you take credits as you would in college or even enroll in college while you're in HS and get ahead, and also AP. I took three; US History, French, English. It's not the system that's flawed, it's the students and their parents making stupid decisions. Like not studying or taking their education seriously.
 
2013-09-04 03:25:46 PM

FlashHarry: Old enough to know better: It honestly confuses me what Republicans are trying to accomplish with their insanity, and I keep coming back to "Convert America into a Feudal Plutocracy". I used to joke about it, but now I'm starting to believe it.

their goal is to return america to the late 19th century. the gilded age of robber barons. this isn't a joke; this is their objective.


THIS
 
2013-09-04 03:29:02 PM

rawbert7: Soccer field AND Football STADIUM


...

Why separate? Soccer fields and football fields are nearly the same size.
 
2013-09-04 03:29:21 PM

This text is now purple: rawbert7: Soccer field AND Football STADIUM

...

Why separate? Soccer fields and football fields are nearly the same size.


Prestige.
 
2013-09-04 03:29:27 PM
Big surprise, ALEC backs parent trigger laws.
 
2013-09-04 03:31:05 PM
Maine's Governor LePage is using a similar letter grading system for schools.  The plan seems to be to redirect funds from failing schools to charter schools (private and religious).  Grades run exactly along economic lines. Schools in wealthy areas score much better than schools in poor areas.  Additional consequences are that home prices have risen and fallen along with the scores.
 
2013-09-04 03:31:13 PM

cwheelie: s1ugg0: Lsherm: come watch the shenanigans of the LA Unified School district: Budget $1 BILLION dollars and they're still graudating morons. Teachers stealing or molesting kids? Can't fire them says the union - so they're sent to a special room, sometimes for years, at full pay. The've just embarked on a plan to give every child an iPad at a cost of $500 million. Exect now they've decide they forgot about keyboards....
they spent $500 to build 1 SCHOOL!
It's not the teachers that are the problem - it's the bloated administration and their union cronies.
Question: think any teacher's Union officials have taken a pay cut or reduced benefits?


Citation Needed.
 
2013-09-04 03:41:14 PM

cwheelie: s1ugg0: Lsherm: ..... no accountability at all for a school's performance (what teachers' unions want).......

[www.troll.me image 552x414]

come watch the shenanigans of the LA Unified School district: Budget $1 BILLION dollars and they're still graudating morons. Teachers stealing or molesting kids? Can't fire them says the union - so they're sent to a special room, sometimes for years, at full pay. The've just embarked on a plan to give every child an iPad at a cost of $500 million. Exect now they've decide they forgot about keyboards....
they spent $500 to build 1 SCHOOL!
It's not the teachers that are the problem - it's the bloated administration and their union cronies.
Question: think any teacher's Union officials have taken a pay cut or reduced benefits?


The people who sold them those iPads are the same ones pushing privatization.
 
2013-09-04 03:42:22 PM

physt: Maine's Governor LePage is using a similar letter grading system for schools.  The plan seems to be to redirect funds from failing schools to charter schools (private and religious).  Grades run exactly along economic lines. Schools in wealthy areas score much better than schools in poor areas.  Additional consequences are that home prices have risen and fallen along with the scores.


Sounds like a geat way to reduce social mobility. Oligarchy is coming.
 
2013-09-04 03:58:17 PM

Ilmarinen: physt: Maine's Governor LePage is using a similar letter grading system for schools.  The plan seems to be to redirect funds from failing schools to charter schools (private and religious).  Grades run exactly along economic lines. Schools in wealthy areas score much better than schools in poor areas.  Additional consequences are that home prices have risen and fallen along with the scores.

Sounds like a geat way to reduce social mobility. Oligarchy is coming.


Coming?
 
2013-09-04 04:04:23 PM
Please do not pretend that you have a right to learn.  You do not.
 
2013-09-04 04:07:02 PM

cwheelie: s1ugg0: Lsherm: ..... no accountability at all for a school's performance (what teachers' unions want).......

[www.troll.me image 552x414]

come watch the shenanigans of the LA Unified School district: Budget $1 BILLION dollars and they're still graudating morons. Teachers stealing or molesting kids? Can't fire them says the union - so they're sent to a special room, sometimes for years, at full pay.


Big numbers are BIG! Shockingly big. Big numbers in and of themselves are something indicative of something. But big somethings! Small good. Big bad. Tree pretty.

LA Unified School Disctrict:
Budget $7.3 billion
Students 662,140
Teachers 31,748

re:Fw:FW:FW:FW:fw:IPads
 
2013-09-04 04:10:23 PM

s1ugg0: Lsherm: ..... no accountability at all for a school's performance (what teachers' unions want).......

img.fark.net
[www.troll.me image 552x414]


1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-09-04 04:10:29 PM

Wangiss: The Irresponsible Captain: One problem is that in rural areas there is no alternative. There's no broadband, and the nearest school may be an hour on the bus for your kid. The next school over could well be two hours away, and just as bad.

Taking money away from the school because someone is using a voucher or home schooling certainly won't help the problem, it's just fewer resources for everyone else there.

I don't know what the answer is, but it's not the road we're going down and it involves giving more money to failing schools. You have to hire new people, pay enough money to lure good teachers out of better performing schools and into bad areas, buy new books and equipment, and sometimes even fix the holes in the roof.

So use a fractional voucher.  If someone wants out, don't give them a voucher worth 100% of the per-student value.  Give them 40% or whatever allows the voucher to become a benefit to the school system.  That way the school gets 60% of the per-kid value with one fewer child to pay for.  It's a win-win.


It doesn't really work that way. There are so many fixed costs involved and so much money is tied down to where it can be spent. Money from the state or federal level is very often that way. You get a fixed income from, generally, property taxes. The margin is razor thin for a poor school. That money is going to someone over in the state capital at the big charter school who may think of a few thousand as a rounding error, but for the poor district that's a free lunch for a few needy students for a year. Even worse, in a rural area you're sending money away from the community.

What happens more often than not, no one wins except the kid who got to go to the better school, and maybe not so much if the bus ride is two hours each way.
 
2013-09-04 04:13:08 PM

cwheelie: they're still graudating morons.


This is why I love Fark.
 
2013-09-04 04:14:44 PM

cwheelie: sTeachers stealing or molesting kids? Can't fire them says the union

img684.imageshack.us

 
2013-09-04 04:26:24 PM

Old enough to know better: It honestly confuses me what Republicans are trying to accomplish with their insanity, and I keep coming back to "Convert America into a Feudal Plutocracy". I used to joke about it, but now I'm starting to believe it.


Because the Democrats are doing a bang up job in the areas they've controlled for decades, right?
 
2013-09-04 04:30:51 PM

reillan: FlashHarry: Old enough to know better: It honestly confuses me what Republicans are trying to accomplish with their insanity, and I keep coming back to "Convert America into a Feudal Plutocracy". I used to joke about it, but now I'm starting to believe it.

their goal is to return america to the late 19th century. the gilded age of robber barons. this isn't a joke; this is their objective.

THIS


But they won't come out and say it.  You know the secret.  You know their true minds.

jdlong.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-09-04 04:35:34 PM

The Irresponsible Captain: Wangiss: The Irresponsible Captain: One problem is that in rural areas there is no alternative. There's no broadband, and the nearest school may be an hour on the bus for your kid. The next school over could well be two hours away, and just as bad.

Taking money away from the school because someone is using a voucher or home schooling certainly won't help the problem, it's just fewer resources for everyone else there.

I don't know what the answer is, but it's not the road we're going down and it involves giving more money to failing schools. You have to hire new people, pay enough money to lure good teachers out of better performing schools and into bad areas, buy new books and equipment, and sometimes even fix the holes in the roof.

So use a fractional voucher.  If someone wants out, don't give them a voucher worth 100% of the per-student value.  Give them 40% or whatever allows the voucher to become a benefit to the school system.  That way the school gets 60% of the per-kid value with one fewer child to pay for.  It's a win-win.

It doesn't really work that way. There are so many fixed costs involved and so much money is tied down to where it can be spent. Money from the state or federal level is very often that way. You get a fixed income from, generally, property taxes. The margin is razor thin for a poor school. That money is going to someone over in the state capital at the big charter school who may think of a few thousand as a rounding error, but for the poor district that's a free lunch for a few needy students for a year. Even worse, in a rural area you're sending money away from the community.

What happens more often than not, no one wins except the kid who got to go to the better school, and maybe not so much if the bus ride is two hours each way.


Well, since I'm clearly not tying you down to any figure here, your only contention is that the only good voucher is a 0% voucher.  But however much you want it to, the math on that doesn't work out.
 
2013-09-04 04:48:45 PM

Ilmarinen: Great idea, giving parents more power. It's not as if they ever want to ban books, have more prayer in school, remove evolution from the curriculum, or teach abstinence only.


If it's a public school, shouldn't democracy work that way?
 
2013-09-04 04:51:38 PM

BgJonson79: Ilmarinen: Great idea, giving parents more power. It's not as if they ever want to ban books, have more prayer in school, remove evolution from the curriculum, or teach abstinence only.

If it's a public school, shouldn't democracy work that way?


No.  Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what's for dinner.

/doingitrite?
 
2013-09-04 04:56:51 PM

This text is now purple: rawbert7: Soccer field AND Football STADIUM

...

Why separate? Soccer fields and football fields are nearly the same size.


Go big or go home seems a recurring American motto. We shared to field in Mexico for sure.
 
2013-09-04 05:14:47 PM
i graded myself in seminary class. what?
 
2013-09-04 05:59:24 PM

Lsherm: There has to be a middle ground between absolutely no accountability at all for a school's performance (what teachers' unions want) and some metric that lets a parent know if they'll be graduatiItng a retard.  Then perhaps we could use those metrics to divert money to schools that are failing.

Seems to me the only real way to do this is to pool school tax money statewide and then funnel it back to districts, since poorer districts are always at the bottom of whatever list you create.


Huh, as a teachers' union member, I want accountability.  However, I also want adequate funding, engaged parents, and children who show up every day.  I would also like for the metrics I am judged on, and my school judged on to be valid.  An assessment that is based on a scan tron test has no real world application and does nothing to help my kids.  Judge me on the material I present, the way that I present it, and the impact I make on children.  Judge my school by the teachers they employ, the programs they offer, and its impact on children.  Don't judge us by a freaking bubble sheet that doesn't matter.  John Irving sucked at standardized tests, and he is one of the best authors of the 20th century.  They don't measure every students abilities or skills, something I am interested in developing in all my students.  I don't want to try to make them fit some mold that YOU expect them to fit into.  I want them to determine their own course in life.
 
2013-09-04 06:03:45 PM

ltr77: Lsherm: There has to be a middle ground between absolutely no accountability at all for a school's performance (what teachers' unions want) and some metric that lets a parent know if they'll be graduatiItng a retard.  Then perhaps we could use those metrics to divert money to schools that are failing.

Seems to me the only real way to do this is to pool school tax money statewide and then funnel it back to districts, since poorer districts are always at the bottom of whatever list you create.

Huh, as a teachers' union member, I want accountability.  However, I also want adequate funding, engaged parents, and children who show up every day.  I would also like for the metrics I am judged on, and my school judged on to be valid.  An assessment that is based on a scan tron test has no real world application and does nothing to help my kids.  Judge me on the material I present, the way that I present it, and the impact I make on children.  Judge my school by the teachers they employ, the programs they offer, and its impact on children.  Don't judge us by a freaking bubble sheet that doesn't matter.  John Irving sucked at standardized tests, and he is one of the best authors of the 20th century.  They don't measure every students abilities or skills, something I am interested in developing in all my students.  I don't want to try to make them fit some mold that YOU expect them to fit into.  I want them to determine their own course in life.


As an educator myself, I would like your sincere opinion on how to gauge success in teaching literacy and mathematics.

Also, I am of the opinion that acceleration in these two fields would create a general uplift among all others.  I would like to know to what extent you agree or disagree and why.
 
2013-09-04 06:44:26 PM
Wangiss:
As an educator myself, I would like your sincere opinion on how to gauge success in teaching literacy and mathematics.

Also, I am of the opinion that acceleration in these two fields would create a general uplift among all others.  I would like to know to what extent you agree or disagree and why.


I gauge success in teaching literacy by my ability to cover the assigned material, and keep students engaged in the process.  I come from a private industry background where I was given yearly evaluations by a superior, and they decided whether or not I was doing my job.  It should work the same way in education.  Now in terms of judging student performance, that should be left up to the schools and the teachers to come up with a metric that works for the students.  One of the problems I have with standardized testing is that it doesn't actually test what it purports to.  For instance, I teach special education.  I had students in the lower elementary level that could not read at a first grade level.  Our math tests required this skill, or the ability to comprehend.  An ability my students did not have.  However, if you gave them a math problem, and asked them to answer it in a straightforward manner, they could easily do the work.  I also have students with god awful anxiety, and when given a scantron sheet, they sit there and cry for 90 minutes.  They never get to take the test.
As an educator, I am sure you are aware that intelligence does not simply start and stop at reading, writing, and mathematics.  Nor does every job require high levels of these skills.  I believe that if a student can excel in other areas without high levels in these areas, they should still be allowed to be a success.   For instance, working in industry, I oversaw people with very rudimentary math skills, and fewer English skills.  They were wildly successful because they had other talents.  Spatial reasoning and artistic merit can get you by in carpentry and welding.  You need a limited understanding of math, but certainly not even college algebra (a rudimentary understanding of geometry is important though).  I do not think that our over reliance on these areas is good for our children or our country.  I have seen how an insistence on college prep reading has taught some children with reading disorders that they are failures, and caused them to become withdrawn from school.  The same happens in math.  In these incidences, the two fields can cause not an upswing in the children's education but actually a degradation.
 
2013-09-04 06:54:14 PM
I thank you for your response.  Do you think that working in special education may limit your ability to relate to the needs of non-special students?
 
2013-09-04 06:59:37 PM

Wangiss: I thank you for your response.  Do you think that working in special education may limit your ability to relate to the needs of non-special students?


Not exactly, in Special education, I spend a chunk of my day working in regular classrooms.  Not all of my students are pulled out, in fact, many of them work in the regular math curriculum and simply need explanations of what is being asked of them.  I work in a small enough school so that this function isn't relegated to an ed tech.  I end up explaining what is needed of my special education students, and then helping other students who need additional instruction during the activities.  I am certified not just in Special Education but in all fields up through middle school (Middle School Math, Science, Social Studies, ELA) and I run after school clubs that all students are involved in.  I have a technology club that is developing video games and building a three dimensional printer.
 
Displayed 50 of 83 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report