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(Washington Post)   What started out as a joke is becoming more likely; GOP Congresscritters might ask that, in exchange for authorizing Syrian actions, the President defund Obamacare   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 205
    More: Unlikely, obamacare, Syrians, GOP, Boehner, Norman Ornstein, Congressional Debate  
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2516 clicks; posted to Politics » on 03 Sep 2013 at 2:58 PM (47 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-03 04:30:42 PM
"It is his escape hatch," Congressional scholar Norman Ornstein told me

"It's not likely that anyone will do that," Ornstein said. "But is it beyond imagining that in some of these negotiations, someone says, `We really want to go with you on the war issue, but our constituents are against it, You want your resolution on Syria? How about [delaying or defunding] Obamacare?'"

"That would have been unthinkable a few years ago," Ornstein concluded. "But now, nothing is unthinkable."
In truth, that does seem highly unlikely, but I suppose you never know.


Sounds like a lock.  If some random congressional scholar says so, it MUST be true.


/not that I'd anything past the party of NO
/or the GOP or DEMS either
 
2013-09-03 04:32:52 PM
Or I don't know, close loop holes shady businesses try to take instead?
 
2013-09-03 04:33:48 PM

Cletus C.: quizzical: Even TFA admits that the request to defund Obamacare in exchange for authorization to act in Syria is "highly unlikely."

Get out of here with that. Our purpose here is to find a distraction to the fact the president's acting like W.


You mean, he's actually following precedent and asking Congress, just like W did before Iraq?  This is a bad thing in what way?
 
2013-09-03 04:33:52 PM

coeyagi: Satanic_Hamster: DamnYankees: The reason its an issue is that, as TFA mentions, the Syria thing totally farks up the debt ceiling/defund Obamacare throwdown. That was supposed to happen this month. But now Syria is preempting it. Congress still has to fund the government and raise the debt ceiling, but now they just don't have the time or airspace to fight about it. So what will they do?

PUT THEM ALL INTO ONE VOTE, LOL

:0

HB 482

-Bomb Camelf*ckers
-Defund Obamacare
-Raise Debt Ceiling
-Provide subsidies to Exxon-Mobil
-Build bridge from Tillman's Corners to Gaillard Island in Mobile Bay because Alabama Gov. Robert Bentley holds sway with the gun lobby and they can fund all the new House GOP primary candidates of the Tea Party because they are TOTALLY about smaller government and not about expanding gun rights, Jesus, stopping abortion, legislating your cock, etc.


Jesus Christ. Why can't people ever get this right.

It's "ExxonMobil"

Not Exxon-Mobil, not Exxonmobile, not Exxon Mobil, it's ExxonMobil. One farking word.

They will want it spelled right so they can cash the subsidy check.
 
2013-09-03 04:34:41 PM

ManateeGag: what about "life begins at erection"? if you get a stiffy and jerk it into a sock, does that mean you are killing a potential child?


Every sperm is sacred.
Every sperm is great.
If a sperm is wasted,
God gets quite irate.

Let the heathen spill theirs
On the dusty ground.
God shall make them pay for
Each sperm that can't be found.

Every sperm is wanted.
Every sperm is good.
Every sperm is needed
In your neighbourhood.

Hindu, Taoist, Mormon,
Spill theirs just anywhere,
But God loves those who treat their
Semen with more care.
 
2013-09-03 04:35:37 PM

Bontesla: Anyone want to wager TF on which Republican will introduce the bill?


House: Louis Gohmert.
Senate: John Cornyn.
 
2013-09-03 04:37:53 PM
This is so Aliens Vs. Predators. No matter who wins, the Republicans are going to lose.
 
2013-09-03 04:44:11 PM

qorkfiend: Question, serious.

Does a declaration of war (or force use authorization, as I'm sure it will be called) require the President's signature to take effect?

If the power to declare war is vested solely with Congress, then the Executive's signature or veto is not required; if the Executive's signature or veto is not required, it doesn't have the force of law and can't be poison-pilled like the GOP seems to be contemplating.


The answer to your two questions are yes and no.  A formal declaration of war does not require the President's approval.  Anything other than that does, and we will not be formally declaring war on Syria.
 
2013-09-03 04:49:19 PM

LasersHurt: Jackson Herring: idk how obvious our two newest gimmick alt accounts have to be to get people to stop responding to them

Honestly it's like watching people address a horse wearing a human wig and it takes them an hour of small talk to go "hey wait a minute..."


There's a photoshop in there somewhere...
 
2013-09-03 04:49:47 PM

Cletus C.: enry: Every now and then Obama comes out as a master troller, and this is another case.

Congress has to act but I doubt the GOP can do anything unified other than put Reagan on the $10,000 bill. Obama wants to act but he's got time and wants to get the evidence in, so he passed the buck to them. The GOP is going to go crazy between their bloodlust for dead brown people and their hatred of anything Obama wants to do.

That is a very cynical view of the president.


How so?
 
2013-09-03 04:53:55 PM

Serious Black: Bontesla: Anyone want to wager TF on which Republican will introduce the bill?

House: Louis Gohmert.
Senate: John Cornyn.


Ohhhhh. Gohmert is a great pick!! I was thinking Cruz of Texas.

I have no money to wager (my mother temporarily is living with me after losing everything when she became disabled).
 
2013-09-03 04:54:40 PM

Geotpf: qorkfiend: Question, serious.

Does a declaration of war (or force use authorization, as I'm sure it will be called) require the President's signature to take effect?

If the power to declare war is vested solely with Congress, then the Executive's signature or veto is not required; if the Executive's signature or veto is not required, it doesn't have the force of law and can't be poison-pilled like the GOP seems to be contemplating.

The answer to your two questions are yes and no.  A formal declaration of war does not require the President's approval.  Anything other than that does, and we will not be formally declaring war on Syria.


Why would the various AUMFs be any different? What's the difference between a Congressionally-approved authorization for the use of force, and a Congressional declaration of war?
 
2013-09-03 04:55:22 PM

qorkfiend: What's the difference between a Congressionally-approved authorization for the use of force, and a Congressional declaration of war?


No one knows.

Seriously. No one knows.
 
2013-09-03 04:56:50 PM

qorkfiend: Geotpf: qorkfiend: Question, serious.

Does a declaration of war (or force use authorization, as I'm sure it will be called) require the President's signature to take effect?

If the power to declare war is vested solely with Congress, then the Executive's signature or veto is not required; if the Executive's signature or veto is not required, it doesn't have the force of law and can't be poison-pilled like the GOP seems to be contemplating.

The answer to your two questions are yes and no.  A formal declaration of war does not require the President's approval.  Anything other than that does, and we will not be formally declaring war on Syria.

Why would the various AUMFs be any different? What's the difference between a Congressionally-approved authorization for the use of force, and a Congressional declaration of war?


Quite a lot if you're on the receiving end of the declaration.
 
2013-09-03 04:59:51 PM

DirkValentine: LasersHurt: Jackson Herring: idk how obvious our two newest gimmick alt accounts have to be to get people to stop responding to them

Honestly it's like watching people address a horse wearing a human wig and it takes them an hour of small talk to go "hey wait a minute..."

There's a photoshop in there somewhere...


I vote we take the lazy way out and just use Chicken Boo as Jackson suggested.
 
2013-09-03 05:01:23 PM

qorkfiend: Geotpf: qorkfiend: Question, serious.

Does a declaration of war (or force use authorization, as I'm sure it will be called) require the President's signature to take effect?

If the power to declare war is vested solely with Congress, then the Executive's signature or veto is not required; if the Executive's signature or veto is not required, it doesn't have the force of law and can't be poison-pilled like the GOP seems to be contemplating.

The answer to your two questions are yes and no.  A formal declaration of war does not require the President's approval.  Anything other than that does, and we will not be formally declaring war on Syria.

Why would the various AUMFs be any different? What's the difference between a Congressionally-approved authorization for the use of force, and a Congressional declaration of war?


The second is mentioned specifically in the constitution as not requiring the President to sign; the first is just a standard bill, which does require the President to sign to become law.
 
2013-09-03 05:01:47 PM

Rwa2play: Cletus C.: quizzical: Even TFA admits that the request to defund Obamacare in exchange for authorization to act in Syria is "highly unlikely."

Get out of here with that. Our purpose here is to find a distraction to the fact the president's acting like W.

You mean, he's actually following precedent and asking Congress, just like W did before Iraq?  This is a bad thing in what way?


Because many people want no part of Syria. Just like many people wanted no part of Iraq. What has changed in this discussion? Certainly not the inevitability of how it will play out.
 
2013-09-03 05:03:28 PM

Bontesla: Serious Black: Bontesla: Anyone want to wager TF on which Republican will introduce the bill?

House: Louis Gohmert.
Senate: John Cornyn.

Ohhhhh. Gohmert is a great pick!! I was thinking Cruz of Texas.

I have no money to wager (my mother temporarily is living with me after losing everything when she became disabled).


No worries on the money.

The only reason I don't see Cruz supporting it more than incidentally is he's publicly stated his opposition to striking Syria, so he couldn't support both a strike on Syria and a repeal on ObamaCare. I think Cornyn is more neocon-ish and would see that as a way to kill two birds with one stone.
 
2013-09-03 05:10:25 PM

Geotpf: qorkfiend: Geotpf: qorkfiend: Question, serious.

Does a declaration of war (or force use authorization, as I'm sure it will be called) require the President's signature to take effect?

If the power to declare war is vested solely with Congress, then the Executive's signature or veto is not required; if the Executive's signature or veto is not required, it doesn't have the force of law and can't be poison-pilled like the GOP seems to be contemplating.

The answer to your two questions are yes and no.  A formal declaration of war does not require the President's approval.  Anything other than that does, and we will not be formally declaring war on Syria.

Why would the various AUMFs be any different? What's the difference between a Congressionally-approved authorization for the use of force, and a Congressional declaration of war?

The second is mentioned specifically in the constitution as not requiring the President to sign; the first is just a standard bill, which does require the President to sign to become law.


Yes, but why is there such a distinction between the two, as there is no operative difference?
 
2013-09-03 05:18:59 PM
They could at least tack on some funding for the perverted arts too.
 
2013-09-03 05:26:52 PM

Nadie_AZ: I don't have a lot of faith in Obama, with regards to these stupid trolls in Congress. But he won't defund his own signature legislation.


Not defunded but probably delayed.  Reps and Dems will use the ever-handy excuse that funds must be diverted to support the troops.  The Obamacare debate is pushed off far into the future and both parties save face.
 
2013-09-03 05:27:34 PM

Serious Black: DamnYankees: Guys, we're screwed - we're definitely getting involved in a massive Syrian war now:


Dick Morris  @DickMorrisTweetSign The Petition To Stay Out Of Syria! http://dickmorris.rallycongress.com/11352/sign-petition-to-stay-out-sy ria/...

Aw shiat. Looks like another decade with boots on the ground in the Middle East.


and if not, you can thank dick morris and all us Patriots who signed his petition!
 
2013-09-03 05:27:59 PM

Serious Black: Bontesla: Serious Black: Bontesla: Anyone want to wager TF on which Republican will introduce the bill?

House: Louis Gohmert.
Senate: John Cornyn.

Ohhhhh. Gohmert is a great pick!! I was thinking Cruz of Texas.

I have no money to wager (my mother temporarily is living with me after losing everything when she became disabled).

No worries on the money.

The only reason I don't see Cruz supporting it more than incidentally is he's publicly stated his opposition to striking Syria, so he couldn't support both a strike on Syria and a repeal on ObamaCare. I think Cornyn is more neocon-ish and would see that as a way to kill two birds with one stone.


I see Cruz misreading the tea leaves and co-sponoring the bill. I think everyone realizes that it would be political theater in the most literal sense so sincerity isn't a requirement. However, he can appear tough on both Obamacare and foreign policy. I also see him taking that gamble thinking that it might help him out in a presidential primary.
 
2013-09-03 05:30:49 PM

SlothB77: There are only nine legislative days from when Congress returns until funding of the government runs out on September 30th

pathetic.  but probably we are better off the

Cletus C.: Rwa2play: Cletus C.: quizzical: Even TFA admits that the request to defund Obamacare in exchange for authorization to act in Syria is "highly unlikely."

Get out of here with that. Our purpose here is to find a distraction to the fact the president's acting like W.

You mean, he's actually following precedent and asking Congress, just like W did before Iraq?  This is a bad thing in what way?

Because many people want no part of Syria. Just like many people wanted no part of Iraq. What has changed in this discussion? Certainly not the inevitability of how it will play out.

Rwa2play: Cletus C.: quizzical: Even TFA admits that the request to defund Obamacare in exchange for authorization to act in Syria is "highly unlikely."

Get out of here with that. Our purpose here is to find a distraction to the fact the president's acting like W.

You mean, he's actually following precedent and asking Congress, just like W did before Iraq?  This is a bad thing in what way?


It came from a Democrat. A Blah one, too.
 
2013-09-03 05:30:54 PM

Aristocles: Serious Black: DamnYankees: Guys, we're screwed - we're definitely getting involved in a massive Syrian war now:


Dick Morris  @DickMorrisTweetSign The Petition To Stay Out Of Syria! http://dickmorris.rallycongress.com/11352/sign-petition-to-stay-out-sy ria/...

Aw shiat. Looks like another decade with boots on the ground in the Middle East.

and if not, you can thank dick morris and all us Patriots who signed his petition!


That sound you just heard was the joke flying over your head.
 
2013-09-03 05:45:22 PM

Rwa2play: Cletus C.: quizzical: Even TFA admits that the request to defund Obamacare in exchange for authorization to act in Syria is "highly unlikely."

Get out of here with that. Our purpose here is to find a distraction to the fact the president's acting like W.

You mean, he's actually following precedent and asking Congress, just like W did before Iraq?  This is a bad thing in what way?


Strictly speaking, it IS better than the implied alternative I suppose. Like a rapist who always wears a condom.
 
2013-09-03 05:53:05 PM
So, will Congress be asked to declare war on Syria, or allow a limited attack? Exactly what will Congress be voting on and will the "defunding" be added on later or be part of the original bill? Also, what's to stop someone from adding a bit in there about a draft?
 
2013-09-03 05:54:36 PM

Ned Stark: Rwa2play: Cletus C.: quizzical: Even TFA admits that the request to defund Obamacare in exchange for authorization to act in Syria is "highly unlikely."

Get out of here with that. Our purpose here is to find a distraction to the fact the president's acting like W.

You mean, he's actually following precedent and asking Congress, just like W did before Iraq?  This is a bad thing in what way?

Strictly speaking, it IS better than the implied alternative I suppose. Like a rapist who always wears a condom.


More like a lotta lube, condom inhibits expulsion of seeds of democracy.
 
2013-09-03 06:00:19 PM

LasersHurt: DirkValentine: LasersHurt: Jackson Herring: idk how obvious our two newest gimmick alt accounts have to be to get people to stop responding to them

Honestly it's like watching people address a horse wearing a human wig and it takes them an hour of small talk to go "hey wait a minute..."

There's a photoshop in there somewhere...

I vote we take the lazy way out and just use Chicken Boo as Jackson suggested.


clampettstudio.com
GOOD.
 
2013-09-03 06:15:54 PM

imontheinternet: Even the current GOP circular firing squad isn't self-destructive enough to tie its war vote to a bullsh*t political stunt like shutting down the government to defund Obamacare.  It's possible that a few idiots will say it to make headlines and cover a no vote with hawkish constituents, but there's no way it gets any significant support.


THIS

This is what I'm thinking. It will make the rounds as an "idea" because a few reactionary sh*t-head Teabaggers brought it up. But it will end there.
 
2013-09-03 06:32:47 PM

LasersHurt: DamnYankees: Linux_Yes: Both a Republican and a Democrat will steal a hot stove.

except, the Republican will wear gloves.

I don't understand what this is supposed to mean.

You can't put a porcupine in a barn, light it on fire, and expect to make popcorn.


Duh. You have to cover the porcupine in movie theater butter first

/Dumbass
 
2013-09-03 06:40:36 PM

DamnYankees: coeyagi: Just think of all the female toes that will be lost via an American strike...

You want a toe? I can get you a toe.

/rare in-context usage of that quote


all I could think of was

"Does it have to be that cop's toe? 'Cause if it's toes you want, I can get toes."
 
2013-09-03 06:44:57 PM

enry: Cletus C.: enry: Every now and then Obama comes out as a master troller, and this is another case.

Congress has to act but I doubt the GOP can do anything unified other than put Reagan on the $10,000 bill. Obama wants to act but he's got time and wants to get the evidence in, so he passed the buck to them. The GOP is going to go crazy between their bloodlust for dead brown people and their hatred of anything Obama wants to do.

That is a very cynical view of the president.

How so?


First, Obama says the evidence is already in. Done deal. Chemical weapons used by the regime on civilians. You seem to be saying he's not telling the truth. That he's waiting for some evidence.

Second, you seem to be saying the president can play for some political points while Syrian civilians continue to suffer. No hurry, they're only brown people, I suppose.

If his intention is to save the suffering of innocent civilians it would seem he would want to act very quickly and do so, rather than look for a way to score political points. I would prefer to think he is looking for a unity of cause before taking action. Or at least as close to unity as he can get.

I don't think there are a lot of points to be scored here anyway. Many right wingers are with him, only preferring more aggressive military action.
 
2013-09-03 07:06:50 PM
"Also, we would like to see the real long-form birth certificate, you know, the Kenyan one."
 
2013-09-03 07:14:45 PM

I_C_Weener: I just love that even in serious conversation I default to muslin instead of muslim now...for any conversation on muslims. Fark...you are in my brain!!!


Congratulations.  It only gets worse from here.
 
2013-09-03 07:15:19 PM
i1089.photobucket.com
Evolution of U.S. conservatives.
 
2013-09-03 07:46:34 PM

Neighborhood Watch: In your little mind, it might have started out as a 'joke' on Fark, subby - but our precious little king should be forced to pay DEARLY for his new war of choice...


Strange, I have you farkied as 'cannot care about other people'. Doesn't your inherently hateful nature drive you to want the maximum population dead\suffering? Or do you prefer the psychological suffering you believe Obama will feel?
 
2013-09-03 08:15:02 PM

Cletus C.: Rwa2play: Cletus C.: quizzical: Even TFA admits that the request to defund Obamacare in exchange for authorization to act in Syria is "highly unlikely."

Get out of here with that. Our purpose here is to find a distraction to the fact the president's acting like W.

You mean, he's actually following precedent and asking Congress, just like W did before Iraq?  This is a bad thing in what way?

Because many people want no part of Syria. Just like many people wanted no part of Iraq. What has changed in this discussion? Certainly not the inevitability of how it will play out.


Well there was that whole invasion thing. Most Americans yawned at Desert Fox.
 
2013-09-03 08:19:43 PM
I think there is going to be a bunch more shist to De-fund after we increase our debt by interfering in Syrias internal civil war.

I pity the 20 somethings.... you guys are gonna be screwed.
 
2013-09-03 08:20:40 PM
Oh, FFS.
 
2013-09-03 08:23:59 PM
 Whatever it's nothing but a bluff. The neocons want this as much if not more than Obama. Although it would be funny to watch them fark it up over an issue that's been settled already.
 
2013-09-03 08:48:52 PM

netcentric: I think there is going to be a bunch more shist to De-fund after we increase our debt by interfering in Syrias internal civil war.

I pity the 20 somethings.... you guys are gonna be screwed.


Gonna be? Already are.
 
2013-09-03 09:34:44 PM

netweavr: ongbok: This is what the GOP has been waiting for with all of these votes to defund ACA. In their minds if they kept this going long enough it would get to the point when Obama was going to desperately need them approve something and they could hold ACA hostage for that approval. They think that they have this now. I can see them rubbing their hands together, smirking and giggling to each other "We got him now!". Unfortunately for them he could pull out the War Powers Act and tell them to go sit and spin.

He won't, he'll just lay the blood of the dead civilians on their heads.


You really think that'll discourage the GOP? The same GOP for whom the blood of 20 school children wasn't enough to even consider tighter gun regulations?
 
2013-09-03 09:52:15 PM
Obama's decision to let Congress be part of this decision was brilliant. What it comes down to is that if they do anything besides simply supporting his decision, they lose. Any attempt to gain, politically, from this situation is going to come back and bite them hard next elections.
 
2013-09-03 10:11:06 PM

cameroncrazy1984: Oh it'll be hilarious when they vote on this thing. The GOP mainstream is going to have to vote against defunding Obamacare or with Obama.


Meanwhile, most of the Democrats, burned by Iraq, will likely vote no anyway, thereby making any deal between the GOP moot.

/Oh, who the fark am I kidding, Kucinich is on F*X News rather than in the House these days...of course they'll rubber stamp it.
 
2013-09-03 10:16:22 PM

Cyclometh: DeaH: Wow. That's some fine hostage taking, GOP!

It's a bold strategy, Cotton.


Let's see if it pays off.
 
2013-09-03 10:52:12 PM

Neighborhood Watch: In your little mind, it might have started out as a 'joke' on Fark, subby - but our precious little king should be forced to pay DEARLY for his new war of choice...


THIS IS WHAT TEAHADISTS ACTUALLY BELIEVE
 
2013-09-03 11:20:13 PM
Is all the conservative outrage because of the thousands of American lives and trillions of dollars lost in Obama's Libyan invasion?
 
2013-09-03 11:36:25 PM

hubiestubert: God bless their poor, dear, sweet hearts, but they do try so very hard don't they...


God better. Because if one of these farkers has a heart attack screaming about Obamacare we're all gonna be stuck with the bill.
 
2013-09-04 01:16:31 AM
bombs and sick people. Sounds like a win win to me.
 
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