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(Washington Post)   When even liberals are calling it the Injustice Department, you might be going too far   (washingtonpost.com ) divider line
    More: Obvious, Injustice Department, Too Far, History of education, racial segregations, Michael Gerson, private schools, University of Arkansas, desegregation  
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2737 clicks; posted to Politics » on 03 Sep 2013 at 12:08 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-03 12:50:36 PM  

Neighborhood Watch: Teachers unions vs poor black kids.

Guess which one the democratic party will defend?


FTFY
 
2013-09-03 12:50:48 PM  

A Dark Evil Omen: Mr. Titanium: The problem with vouchers is that it tacitly agrees that it is OK for some schools stink.  Wnen the public officials in each state insure that ALL public schools in their state are good, then they can gripe.  Until then, they need to get off their butts and do the jobs they take public money for doing.  The teacher unions sometimes just fight for the teachers, but nobody is looking out for the students.  Not the Governor, Legislature, Mayors, local school boards, etc.

The teachers fight for the students. The teachers' unions are made up of teachers. Far from the scumbag right-wing lies about them, unionized teachers are the best advocates and the best defense students have available by a wide margin. Anyone trying to bust or denigrate teachers' unions wants schools to fail their students.


I have a new hypothesis about why young people hate unions so much.

Yeah, a lot of right wing lies, but also, the teacher's strikes.  They planted seeds of doubt in many children's minds.

CSB time: Back in the late 90's, before I knew her, my wife, she actually walked up to the picket line and made her math teacher go over a problem because the scab babysitter they hired in the interim didn't know how to do math.

I think she is more pissed at the voters in Oregon for passing Measure 5, I know I am.  There are rumors it might have enough support to get a repeal or modification back on the ballot.

End CSB
 
2013-09-03 12:51:07 PM  

Neighborhood Watch: Teachers unions vs poor black kids.

Guess which one the democrat party will defend?


pffffffffft neither, because "Where else they gonna go?"TM
 
2013-09-03 12:53:03 PM  
Because liberals always do with a.m. radio talking heads tell them to do!! Hurr.
 
2013-09-03 12:53:45 PM  

Rapmaster2000: Wooly Bully: Super Chronic: I swear, it's like driving with a couple of petulant kids in the backseat. "Democrat party!" "Quit it! Daaaaad, Timmy said 'democrat party' again! Make him stop!"

Right, because when someone points out that this is idiotic they somehow become responsible for the idiocy.

I agree that ideally, it should be ignored.


Speaking as a parent, I know that "ignore it" is often the best policy. And that's generally true for dealing with internet trolls, as well.

But "respected voices" like politicians and journalists shouldn't get away with that crap without at least being ridiculed.
 
2013-09-03 12:56:44 PM  

TofuTheAlmighty: The conservative movement against public schooling is geared solely toward two goals: 1) union busting and 2) funneling more public money to churches.


If you follow the money pretty much all new funding to education goes to the bureaucracy and not to the classroom in the form of books, computers, and teacher's salaries.  I'm atheist so I don't want money to go to churches.  At the same time I'd be happy to have the education budgets in this country decimated the way any large organization removes tiers of management after a while.  Flatten out the system and put more, higher paid teachers out there with fewer kids per classroom.
 
2013-09-03 12:57:00 PM  

Neighborhood Watch: Blathering Idjut: There is no such thing as a "democrat party."
Oh yes there is...  (links to midlly NFSW images, as democrats are pictured in it)



favorited!.
 
2013-09-03 12:58:14 PM  

AngryDragon: I had the choice of private school or Detroit public schools. My parents took an extra job to send me to private school because DPS was already a war zone. If a voucher system had existed we could have gone to a private school without having absentee parents for 4 years.

I'm not seeing the problem


And I think I can count possibly only on one hand the number of my non-weekend baseball and soccer games my folks attended. They both worked to the bone - my mom gave birth to my brother 45 minutes after getting home off a 12-hour shift at the hospital - to send us to the private school they wanted to. My parents weren't "absentee", but between 7am and 7pm, unless they drove the carpool, good luck. In central Jersey, the public schools aren't crap, neither are they crap in the DC suburbs.

Two of my grandparents were teachers - union teachers. Their pensions helped pad their retirement incomes (not huge, but not nothing) and just about covered funeral costs, thanks for asking.

Putting more of a strain on the "education" budget by adding money for vouchers, when everybody knows that it's one of the first things to get cut (and not the vouchers, make those evil unioners pay some), is the absolute wrong thing to do. Make it a separate line-item, or make it statutorily the first part of the Ed budget to get cut, but for god's sake what is the point of paying for schools and then paying people NOT to attend them?

// never once heard them biatch about paying taxes to public schools
// oh, but my brother went to a public school for 7th grade, so they got their money's worth
 
2013-09-03 12:59:31 PM  

AngryDragon: The RIchest Man in Babylon: Neighborhood Watch: Teachers unions vs poor black kids.

Guess which one the democrat party will defend?

What is the Republican end-game with vouchers?  Do we end up sending everyone to private schools?  Do we get rid of public schools completely?

Why does anyone care?  As long as the same amount of money is going into the system and kids are getting educated, why all the outrage?  Give poor parents a choice of where to send their kids.

I had the choice of private school or Detroit public schools.  My parents took an extra job to send me to private school because DPS was already a war zone.  If a voucher system had existed we could have gone to a private school without having absentee parents for 4 years.

I'm not seeing the problem.


The problem is actually quite simple.

Vouchers largely go to religious institutions.

This has both the primary effect of advancing a particular religion(Louisiana being a great example getting a Muslim school to drop their application because it's sole intention is the advancement of Christianity), as well as a secondary effect of excessive entanglement.

Vouchers are also going to lead to the government saying "Hey, if you want this money, you have to teach this" or "You have to follow this regulation, rule, or law if you want the money".
 
2013-09-03 01:00:14 PM  

Dr Dreidel: Uranus Is Huge!: I see some concern trolling about giving taxpayer money to Jesus Day Camps instead of poor public schools. Did I miss something?

Seems only fair that we should first spend our money on fixing public schools and spend a remainder on vouchers rather than on promoting and filling the alternative schools while neglecting the 1-in-10 poor black kids (and thousands of others) who aren't lucky or interested enough to get a voucher.


The voucher is only worth 64% of the cost the state would pay to teach the child in the public school. That leaves a lot more resources for the children who do stay in public schools.
 
2013-09-03 01:00:26 PM  
OH look it's a subby whose knowledge fo the Washington Post stopped with Watergate and still thinksthe paper that employs Howard Jurtz, Jennifer Rubin, Mark Gerson, and Erik Erikson is a "Liberal" paper  (which it hasn;t been since Lally Weymouth took over from Donald Graham as publisher)

this is all you need to know about why the DOJ is suing...
There's no denying the state's racist history of school segregation or its ugly efforts in the late 1960s and early 1970s to undermine desegregation orders by helping white children to evade racially integrated schools. These efforts included funneling public money to all-white private schools."

 given that its PERFECTLY reasonable to question anythin LA does in this area.  Futhermore this argument misses the point entirely:

Since most of the students using vouchers are black, it is, as State Education Superintendent John White pointed out to the New Orleans Times-Picayune, "a little ridiculous" to argue that the departure of mostly black students to voucher schools would make their home school systems less white

No, not "less white"  just less "black" as poor black kids get shoveled out of the Public school system so the disparity they have in performance on test scores and other measures no longer affects LA's school rnaking and Department of Education funding.   Meanwhile the voucher schools will have no standards or over sight.  Jindal himself has already said he's be perfectly fine with such schools teaching, say , young earth creationism exclusively in "science" classes
 
2013-09-03 01:01:35 PM  

meat0918: AngryDragon: The RIchest Man in Babylon: Neighborhood Watch: Teachers unions vs poor black kids.

Guess which one the democrat party will defend?

What is the Republican end-game with vouchers?  Do we end up sending everyone to private schools?  Do we get rid of public schools completely?

Why does anyone care?  As long as the same amount of money is going into the system and kids are getting educated, why all the outrage?  Give poor parents a choice of where to send their kids.

I had the choice of private school or Detroit public schools.  My parents took an extra job to send me to private school because DPS was already a war zone.  If a voucher system had existed we could have gone to a private school without having absentee parents for 4 years.

I'm not seeing the problem.

The problem is actually quite simple.

Vouchers largely go to religious institutions.

This has both the primary effect of advancing a particular religion(Louisiana being a great example getting a Muslim school to drop their application because its(the voucher program) sole intention is the advancement of Christianity), as well as a secondary effect of excessive entanglement.

Vouchers are also going to lead to the government saying "Hey, if you want this money, you have to teach this" or "You have to follow this regulation, rule, or law if you want the money".


Clarified that a bit.
 
2013-09-03 01:01:51 PM  

AngryDragon: The RIchest Man in Babylon: Neighborhood Watch: Teachers unions vs poor black kids.

Guess which one the democrat party will defend?

What is the Republican end-game with vouchers?  Do we end up sending everyone to private schools?  Do we get rid of public schools completely?

Why does anyone care?  As long as the same amount of money is going into the system and kids are getting educated, why all the outrage?  Give poor parents a choice of where to send their kids.

I had the choice of private school or Detroit public schools.  My parents took an extra job to send me to private school because DPS was already a war zone.  If a voucher system had existed we could have gone to a private school without having absentee parents for 4 years.

I'm not seeing the problem.


What happens to all the kids who can't get a voucher, or can't afford to pay the difference?  They just get screwed?  Unless you plan to send every kid to a private school you're screwing all the kids stuck in the [now more] underfunded/under-performing public schools.
 
2013-09-03 01:02:26 PM  

Super Chronic: Rapmaster2000: Dr Dreidel: Blathering Idjut: Neighborhood Watch: Guess which one the democrat party will defend?

There is no such thing as a "democrat party."

It's a useful term - by using it, the speaker reveals themselves as someone whose opinions on matters political (including matters of policy like climate change, labor law, foreign relations...) are irrelevant.

And yes, I know that something like half to all Republicans in Congress use the term as well.

The only reason I can find for the existence of it, is that its proponents think that this really sticks it to the libs and is therefore worthwhile.

It doesn't.  It just makes you sound like a mouthbreather.

And yet, people keep objecting loudly to it, so apparently it does stick it to some of them.  I swear, it's like driving with a couple of petulant kids in the backseat.  "Democrat party!"  "Quit it! Daaaaad, Timmy said 'democrat party' again! Make him stop!"  Well, Tommy, if you want Timmy to stop doing that, why don't you stop acting like it bothers you so much?


so . . . the aristocrat-ics?
 
2013-09-03 01:02:32 PM  
Voucher programs aren't about race, but about funneling taxpayer money to either religious schools who want to retain the rights to discriminate based on race and religion, OR fake out of state "for-profit management" scams.

With just a little research, you'd find out that the Justice Department is getting involved because ongoing fraud.  Of the 117 schools participating in the voucher program only 5 could document where the voucher money was spent.  One school:

"... has no real classrooms and employs uncertified teachers who simply stick students in front of DVDs for instruction. "

"... charged the state $6,300 for each of its 93 voucher students but charged just $530 per person for its 109 non-voucher students. "

"...funneling money to its sponsoring church, handing over $40,235 to the sectarian organization ".

https://www.au.org/church-state/september-2013-church-state/people-e ve nts/la-voucher-schools-ignoring-state-laws

As it stands the state has no idea how much other fraud is going on because schools are refusing to be account for the voucher money.
 
2013-09-03 01:03:08 PM  
This op ed was written by a libertarian, not a liberal. Sometimes newspapers publish opinions that differ from their typical journalistic slant.
 
2013-09-03 01:03:22 PM  
1. Create a charter school
2. Continue the destruction of public schools through mismanagement and underfunding.
3. Create rules that will give PUBLIC money to the PRIVATE schools that you created which are less beholden to Federal guidelines.
4. Profit
 
2013-09-03 01:04:31 PM  

Neighborhood Watch: Teachers unions vs poor black kids.

Guess which one the democrat party will defend?


There have been Charter schools, which are essentially cvoucher schools by a different name, up and running in many places for years now, including DC and other places with chronically underperforming public schools.  Show me one place where they have ever made things better by any measurable standard.  As we saw in Indiana recently, even when Charter Schools do Get high marks from state education boards it's often because their owners are weathly political donors who get their rankings changed through corruption.
 
2013-09-03 01:04:39 PM  

AngryDragon: I had the choice of private school or Detroit public schools. My parents took an extra job to send me to private school because DPS was already a war zone. If a voucher system had existed we could have gone to a private school without having absentee parents for 4 years.

I'm not seeing the problem.


Everyone pays taxes for public schools. Even people without children.
Why should your family be exempt?
 
2013-09-03 01:05:44 PM  
Subby is clearly having trouble reconciling reality with what he learns from Rush and Glenn, regarding "liberals".
 
2013-09-03 01:06:26 PM  

Chagrin: Dr Dreidel: Uranus Is Huge!: I see some concern trolling about giving taxpayer money to Jesus Day Camps instead of poor public schools. Did I miss something?

Seems only fair that we should first spend our money on fixing public schools and spend a remainder on vouchers rather than on promoting and filling the alternative schools while neglecting the 1-in-10 poor black kids (and thousands of others) who aren't lucky or interested enough to get a voucher.

The voucher is only worth 64% of the cost the state would pay to teach the child in the public school. That leaves a lot more resources for the children who do stay in public schools.


Yeah and if I squeeze 46% more blood out of this rock, you're going to be covered in red. The budgets were already decimated. Taking ANY money out of a school system where kids can't take books home because they only have one set for multiple classes isn't helping anyone but the private schools.
 
2013-09-03 01:06:33 PM  
Al Frankin and others already called the DOJ that or the Department of Vengeance over Holder praising one of his goons for driving Aaron Swartz to kill himself
 
2013-09-03 01:07:58 PM  

Neighborhood Watch: Wooly Bully: Maybe someone can explain what "liberals" have to do with the Washington Post, because that one just had me scratching my head.


News Flash:  It's a liberal publication


News flash...not for the last 20 years.   Do try to keep up.
 
2013-09-03 01:08:13 PM  

Without Fail: AngryDragon: I had the choice of private school or Detroit public schools. My parents took an extra job to send me to private school because DPS was already a war zone. If a voucher system had existed we could have gone to a private school without having absentee parents for 4 years.

I'm not seeing the problem.

Everyone pays taxes for public schools. Even people without children.
Why should your family be exempt?


How is choosing where to direct your education dollars being made exempt?
 
2013-09-03 01:09:07 PM  

Chagrin: Dr Dreidel: Uranus Is Huge!: I see some concern trolling about giving taxpayer money to Jesus Day Camps instead of poor public schools. Did I miss something?

Seems only fair that we should first spend our money on fixing public schools and spend a remainder on vouchers rather than on promoting and filling the alternative schools while neglecting the 1-in-10 poor black kids (and thousands of others) who aren't lucky or interested enough to get a voucher.

The voucher is only worth 64% of the cost the state would pay to teach the child in the public school. That leaves a lot more resources for the children who do stay in public schools.


That link is about special ed students, a great example of how the public school system is inadequate.

And if the vouchers save us 33% per student even for the poor kids, I still say it's a bad idea. For the reason I just mentioned - people are more willing to cut the other parts of the Ed budget than vouchers. Let the private sector handle that. Get a scholarship or some church money or a 3rd and 4th job, or go to public school.

Maybe if parents who thought being scared of public schools was "caring for their kids" didn't keep their kids out of public schools, they wouldn't be so bad. Maybe having as many or more administrators in the system as actual teachers (the point of schools in the first place) is a bad idea as well. Maybe we should focus on fixing the schools we do pay for, rather than promoting schools we don't.
 
2013-09-03 01:10:18 PM  
Injustice Department?

images1.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2013-09-03 01:10:30 PM  

The RIchest Man in Babylon: What happens to all the kids who can't get a voucher, or can't afford to pay the difference?  They just get screwed?  Unless you plan to send every kid to a private school you're screwing all the kids stuck in the [now more] underfunded/under-performing public schools


Give them all vouchers.  If you are admitting that being "stuck" in a public school is the equivalent of being "screwed", why not afford the opportunity to everyone?  Again, my choices were private school or DPS.  EVERY student should have had the option to get out of that hellhole.
 
2013-09-03 01:10:41 PM  

Chagrin: Dr Dreidel: Uranus Is Huge!: I see some concern trolling about giving taxpayer money to Jesus Day Camps instead of poor public schools. Did I miss something?

Seems only fair that we should first spend our money on fixing public schools and spend a remainder on vouchers rather than on promoting and filling the alternative schools while neglecting the 1-in-10 poor black kids (and thousands of others) who aren't lucky or interested enough to get a voucher.

The voucher is only worth 64% of the cost the state would pay to teach the child in the public school. That leaves a lot more resources for the children who do stay in public schools.


No it doesn't.  Schools get paid per student.  Less students == less money.
 
2013-09-03 01:11:54 PM  

Neighborhood Watch: Teachers unions vs poor black kids.

Guess which one the democrat party will defend?


Except those really are not the sides. It's more properly funding public schools versus skimming money from public schools to line the pockets of for-profit charter school organizations and using tax dollars to teach religious crap like creationism.
 
2013-09-03 01:16:01 PM  

Chagrin: Dr Dreidel: Uranus Is Huge!: I see some concern trolling about giving taxpayer money to Jesus Day Camps instead of poor public schools. Did I miss something?

Seems only fair that we should first spend our money on fixing public schools and spend a remainder on vouchers rather than on promoting and filling the alternative schools while neglecting the 1-in-10 poor black kids (and thousands of others) who aren't lucky or interested enough to get a voucher.

The voucher is only worth 64% of the cost the state would pay to teach the child in the public school. That leaves a lot more resources for the children who do stay in public schools.


Here's a tip: Public schools have to take everyone. This includes special needs students. The average student is in a class with 30 students and one teacher. Special needs students are in a class with 6 students and 2 teachers, who are higher paid on top of that due to the need for better education. Students getting vouchers cost less than 64% of the average cost of students, because voucher schools don't take the expensive kids.
 
2013-09-03 01:18:26 PM  

Neighborhood Watch: Teachers unions vs poor black kids.

Guess which one the democrat party will defend?


Definitive proof that liberals are racist!

Well done.

By the way, no one who refers to the Democratic Party as the "Democrat Party" can expect to be taken seriously.
 
2013-09-03 01:18:36 PM  

Super Chronic: And yet, people keep objecting loudly to it, so apparently it does stick it to some of them.  I swear, it's like driving with a couple of petulant kids in the backseat.  "Democrat party!"  "Quit it! Daaaaad, Timmy said 'democrat party' again! Make him stop!"  Well, Tommy, if you want Timmy to stop doing that, why don't you stop acting like it bothers you so much?



I'll remember that next time someone complains about Rush Limbaugh being called the DeFacto leader of the GOP.
 
2013-09-03 01:20:08 PM  

AngryDragon: The RIchest Man in Babylon: What happens to all the kids who can't get a voucher, or can't afford to pay the difference?  They just get screwed?  Unless you plan to send every kid to a private school you're screwing all the kids stuck in the [now more] underfunded/under-performing public schools

Give them all vouchers.  If you are admitting that being "stuck" in a public school is the equivalent of being "screwed", why not afford the opportunity to everyone?  Again, my choices were private school or DPS.  EVERY student should have had the option to get out of that hellhole.


They are getting screwed if the public schools are underfunded and poorly managed.  Taking MORE money out of will only exacerbate the problem.

Again I ask, what about the people for whom the voucher is not enough?  Unless the voucher is going to cover 100% of private school tuition and associated fees (including transportation, free/reduced lunches, etc) how is that a solution?  Are you proposing the State of LA should pay 100% of the cost for every student to attend the private school of their choice?  Do you really think that is tenable financially?  Would the private schools even ACCEPT all these students?  Would you REQUIRE these private schools to accept any student that applies?
 
2013-09-03 01:21:18 PM  

Tyee: democrat party


DRINK!

/favorited!ed NW some weeks ago
 
2013-09-03 01:21:57 PM  

Wooly Bully: Super Chronic: I swear, it's like driving with a couple of petulant kids in the backseat. "Democrat party!" "Quit it! Daaaaad, Timmy said 'democrat party' again! Make him stop!"

Right, because when someone points out that this is idiotic they somehow become responsible for the idiocy.


You're the real racist.
 
2013-09-03 01:28:14 PM  

The RIchest Man in Babylon: They are getting screwed if the public schools are underfunded and poorly managed.  Taking MORE money out of will only exacerbate the problem.

Again I ask, what about the people for whom the voucher is not enough?  Unless the voucher is going to cover 100% of private school tuition and associated fees (including transportation, free/reduced lunches, etc) how is that a solution?  Are you proposing the State of LA should pay 100% of the cost for every student to attend the private school of their choice?  Do you really think that is tenable financially?  Would the private schools even ACCEPT all these students?  Would you REQUIRE these private schools to accept any student that applies?


Underfunding and mismanagement are two entirely different problems.

Provide a voucher for each student equal to the amount of tuition the state provides for a public school student.  If the parents want to go to a private school, they pay the difference.  That's why it's a voucher.  If there is excess, it stays in the public system.  Since they are already spending the money per student, it shouldn't be that much of a hardship.  Yes they should accept anyone who applies up to their class size.  Yes they would be required to do so in order to have the vouchers valid.  The public schools then have to compete for their student dollars, ostensibly by cleaning up their acts from a management perspective.

Again, I'm not seeing the problem.
 
2013-09-03 01:29:01 PM  

Magorn: Neighborhood Watch: Wooly Bully: Maybe someone can explain what "liberals" have to do with the Washington Post, because that one just had me scratching my head.


News Flash:  It's a liberal publication

News flash...not for the last 20 years.   Do try to keep up.


A "liberal publication" is one that is not part of the right wing echo chamber.
 
2013-09-03 01:32:59 PM  

Lee Jackson Beauregard: A "liberal publication" is one that is not part of the right wing echo chamber.


Thanks, now I get it! Just trying to understand the memes here.
 
2013-09-03 01:33:09 PM  

czei: Voucher programs aren't about race, but about funneling taxpayer money to either religious schools who want to retain the rights to discriminate based on race and religion, OR fake out of state "for-profit management" scams.

With just a little research, you'd find out that the Justice Department is getting involved because ongoing fraud.  Of the 117 schools participating in the voucher program only 5 could document where the voucher money was spent.  One school:

"... has no real classrooms and employs uncertified teachers who simply stick students in front of DVDs for instruction. "

"... charged the state $6,300 for each of its 93 voucher students but charged just $530 per person for its 109 non-voucher students. "

"...funneling money to its sponsoring church, handing over $40,235 to the sectarian organization ".

https://www.au.org/church-state/september-2013-church-state/people-e ve nts/la-voucher-schools-ignoring-state-laws

As it stands the state has no idea how much other fraud is going on because schools are refusing to be account for the voucher money.


I doubt that they really give a shiat, as the companies running these charter schools will continue to line the LA lawmakers pockets quite handily so that the state looks the other way.
 
2013-09-03 01:37:37 PM  

Neighborhood Watch: Wooly Bully: Maybe someone can explain what "liberals" have to do with the Washington Post, because that one just had me scratching my head.


News Flash:  It's a liberal publication


Some lame troll is letting his own personal biases show, and it ain't me or  Wooly Bully
 
2013-09-03 01:37:59 PM  

AngryDragon: The RIchest Man in Babylon: They are getting screwed if the public schools are underfunded and poorly managed.  Taking MORE money out of will only exacerbate the problem.

Again I ask, what about the people for whom the voucher is not enough?  Unless the voucher is going to cover 100% of private school tuition and associated fees (including transportation, free/reduced lunches, etc) how is that a solution?  Are you proposing the State of LA should pay 100% of the cost for every student to attend the private school of their choice?  Do you really think that is tenable financially?  Would the private schools even ACCEPT all these students?  Would you REQUIRE these private schools to accept any student that applies?

Underfunding and mismanagement are two entirely different problems.

Provide a voucher for each student equal to the amount of tuition the state provides for a public school student.  If the parents want to go to a private school, they pay the difference.  That's why it's a voucher.  If there is excess, it stays in the public system.  Since they are already spending the money per student, it shouldn't be that much of a hardship.  Yes they should accept anyone who applies up to their class size.  Yes they would be required to do so in order to have the vouchers valid.  The public schools then have to compete for their student dollars, ostensibly by cleaning up their acts from a management perspective.

Again, I'm not seeing the problem.


Here is the issue Charters have over public schools: Public schools cannot kick people out. At the very least, they cannot unless the student is violent and considered a danger to either the school or the students at large. In private schools, provided by vouchers, they have the distinct advantage: Academic Minimums. If you don't make it? Good bye. There is no political accountability to whom is being ushered out, there is very little real legal recourse considering there is no guarantee to private school education.

And in the end statistically, they still score about on par with public school systems while not even attempting to address most of the bullshiat public school systems have to deal with. But, there is a farking problem there.
 
2013-09-03 01:40:31 PM  

AngryDragon: The RIchest Man in Babylon: They are getting screwed if the public schools are underfunded and poorly managed.  Taking MORE money out of will only exacerbate the problem.

Again I ask, what about the people for whom the voucher is not enough?  Unless the voucher is going to cover 100% of private school tuition and associated fees (including transportation, free/reduced lunches, etc) how is that a solution?  Are you proposing the State of LA should pay 100% of the cost for every student to attend the private school of their choice?  Do you really think that is tenable financially?  Would the private schools even ACCEPT all these students?  Would you REQUIRE these private schools to accept any student that applies?

Underfunding and mismanagement are two entirely different problems.

Provide a voucher for each student equal to the amount of tuition the state provides for a public school student.  If the parents want to go to a private school, they pay the difference.  That's why it's a voucher.  If there is excess, it stays in the public system.  Since they are already spending the money per student, it shouldn't be that much of a hardship.  Yes they should accept anyone who applies up to their class size.  Yes they would be required to do so in order to have the vouchers valid.  The public schools then have to compete for their student dollars, ostensibly by cleaning up their acts from a management perspective.

Again, I'm not seeing the problem.


And still you don't answer the basic question: What do you say to the students whose family can't afford the difference?  Tough luck?

And really, do you genuinely believe that the public schools suffer no ill-effects from having say, half their funding yanked because half the students can afford a private school?

Why isn't the answer to fix the public schools?

/no new, fix old
 
2013-09-03 01:40:48 PM  
We should keep transferring public education dollars to private schools because a handful of kids might benefit.

Charter/private schools are a money grab scheme that comes at the expense of every other kid that doesn't get to go.
 
2013-09-03 01:41:34 PM  

Neighborhood Watch: Blathering Idjut: There is no such thing as a "democrat party."


Oh yes there is...  (links to midlly NFSW images, as democrats are pictured in it)


That's brilliant!  I mean...you could NEVER do that by photoshopping Republican faces in that picture.  I mean, it would IMPOSSIBRU!
 
2013-09-03 01:44:12 PM  

Dr Dreidel: my mom gave birth to my brother 45 minutes after getting home off a 12-hour shift at the hospital


Sounds like she should have just stayed at the hospital. She wouldn't have had to deal with the traffic and would have been able to lie down sooner.

/I gots me a public edumacation.
 
2013-09-03 01:46:30 PM  
Great, some financially motivated, and totally unaccountable private business will do better than a public school. The problem with vouchers is the lack of any oversight on the people who fund this non-sense, namely the tax payer. With public schools I can elect board members, and can get grievances addressed regardless of if I have a kid that goes there or not. And if I am paying for it your damn straight I should get a say in how an entity is handling the money. Vouchers are an anti-civil society policy. Conservatives are using bullshiat arguments to hide the fact that they want to make government less responsible or accountable. It is an unamerican policy.
 
2013-09-03 01:51:21 PM  
Who would of thought that the Washington Post, a subsidiary of Kaplan Education (a for profit education testing and operator of predatory for-profit schools) would be in favor of vouchers?

Profits from Kaplan have basically been subsidizing the money losing Washington Post.
 
2013-09-03 01:54:32 PM  

Stabone33: Dr Dreidel: my mom gave birth to my brother 45 minutes after getting home off a 12-hour shift at the hospital

Sounds like she should have just stayed at the hospital. She wouldn't have had to deal with the traffic and would have been able to lie down sooner.

/I gots me a public edumacation.


Heh. Well, she returned to the hospital 45 minutes after getting home.

// and I'm pretty sure her water didn't break during rounds
 
2013-09-03 01:55:05 PM  

The RIchest Man in Babylon: And still you don't answer the basic question: What do you say to the students whose family can't afford the difference?  Tough luck?

And really, do you genuinely believe that the public schools suffer no ill-effects from having say, half their funding yanked because half the students can afford a private school?

Why isn't the answer to fix the public schools?


Isn't that what you're saying to them now?  You're kid is in a failing public school but you can't afford to send him/her to a better one, so tough luck?

If you can't throw out the troublemakers, you can't fire the teachers, and the schools are increasingly focused on test scores instead of educating children, what fix are you proposing?
 
2013-09-03 01:57:01 PM  

HairBolus: Who would of thought that the Washington Post, a subsidiary of Kaplan Education (a for profit education testing and operator of predatory for-profit schools) would be in favor of vouchers?

Profits from Kaplan have basically been subsidizing the money losing Washington Post.


I can't believe you're the first to point that out. I'm a little ashamed to have forgotten about it myself.

That thing should have come with a disclaimer longer than the article itself. Interests don't get more conflicting than that.
 
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