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(Some Guy)   Too many criminals are paying $500 to a lawyer to establish a trust, then spending $15k more to buy a machine gun, $1k more to buy a silencer, $400 more in tax stamps and waiting 8-10 months to go kill a bunch of people   (blog.princelaw.com) divider line 346
    More: Stupid, rulemaking process, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, law enforcement officer, NICS, FFL  
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12698 clicks; posted to Main » on 03 Sep 2013 at 9:05 AM (47 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-03 09:44:05 AM

Onkel Buck: Patience is a virtue of the pyscho, subby.

/look up bump firing on youtube, its legal. Sleep well gun grabbers


It's legal, but good luck hitting anything with it. At a buck a round it's only fun once.
 
2013-09-03 09:44:50 AM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: MythDragon: I just use a pillow for all my silenced shooting. It muffles the shot quite well, and all the feathers flying everywhere gives it a real "John Woo" feel to it.

I've never understood why hitmen don't just wear ear muffs like at the gun range. Seems a lot cheaper and more practical than using a silencer.


I just use a 50 gallon drum lined with foam.
 
2013-09-03 09:44:57 AM

Pelvic Splanchnic Ganglion: n0nthing: It's also not terribly difficult, expensive, or illegal to purchase a machine gun kit, an 80% receiver, and a dremel.

Yeah, then there's that whole "ten years and $10,000 fine" thing for illegal manufacturing of a Title II firearm...


Sure, building out the receiver as full auto is probably not healthy for your future freedom...merely pointing out that there are relatively easy and cheap ways to legally obtain all of the parts needed to assemble a full-auto firearm.
 
2013-09-03 09:46:49 AM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: MythDragon: I just use a pillow for all my silenced shooting. It muffles the shot quite well, and all the feathers flying everywhere gives it a real "John Woo" feel to it.

I've never understood why hitmen don't just wear ear muffs like at the gun range. Seems a lot cheaper and more practical than using a silencer.


The good ones don't need a gun
 
2013-09-03 09:49:50 AM
Who said Americans were impatient?  USA!  USA!  USA!
 
2013-09-03 09:50:20 AM

n0nthing: Pelvic Splanchnic Ganglion: n0nthing: It's also not terribly difficult, expensive, or illegal to purchase a machine gun kit, an 80% receiver, and a dremel.

Yeah, then there's that whole "ten years and $10,000 fine" thing for illegal manufacturing of a Title II firearm...

Sure, building out the receiver as full auto is probably not healthy for your future freedom...merely pointing out that there are relatively easy and cheap ways to legally obtain all of the parts needed to assemble a full-auto firearm.


Bumpfire, ftw.
 
2013-09-03 09:50:54 AM
Is this a "We just need better enforcement of existing laws" week, or is it an "Existing laws are stupid and unenforcable" week?  What with the excitement of the long holiday it seems I've lost track.
 
2013-09-03 09:51:46 AM

Brew78: That being said, it really is unfortunate how many people base all their firearm/accessory knowledge off what they see in TV and film.


Meh, it's a general all around problem.
I still occasionally run into people who believe that hoverboards are real but have been banned for safety reasons.
 
2013-09-03 09:52:34 AM

c0penhaqen: Personally, I don't have a problem with a change in the law which requires a NICS check for all members of the trust or changes which require CLEO sign-off as long as a few provisions are provided.


Difficulty: United States v. Huet.

That you have a felon in your house does not abridge your 2nd Amendment rights.
 
2013-09-03 09:53:02 AM
Make no mistake about it, the ultimate goal is to eventually make it impossible to own NFA items, just like the registry was closed in '86.
 
2013-09-03 09:57:30 AM
I wonder if even ONE person has successfully done this.

Regardless of how they obtained it felons are still prohibited from possessing a firearm.

This is just a way to deny NFA transfers by requiring all of them to have CLEO signoff.  The administration can pretend that they did nothing to stop anyone legally allowed from obtaining firearms.
 
2013-09-03 09:57:37 AM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: It should be criminal to own a machine gun or a silencer anyway.


Suppressors (which if you've ever actually heard one used outside Hollywood fiction) are a safety device that protects people's hearing when firing at a range. Not only should they be legal, their use should be encouraged. OSHA should be all over that shiat for indoor ranges to protect the hearing of the employees.

plausdeny: a device that reduces (does not eliminate) the report of a shot by about -30db protects the hearing of the user and bystanders.


And even at 30 dB reduction, they're still very loud, and you still need to wear hearing protection.

hoo_hoo_fred: meh, my sarcasm detector picked it up just fine.


I've heard that same horse shiat said too many times with complete seriousness and exactly that way to automatically assume it's sarcasm.
 
2013-09-03 09:58:15 AM
Same problem with felons using Zombies to buy guns. When it was discovered that Lepers and Zombies are not the same the guys using Lepers got treated for those rashes and stuff falling off and having to explain it to your girlfriend at the STD clinic.

This looks like a good faith effort to keep (now's a good time to close your ears SOTUS) ficticious corporate (now you can open your ears again) persons showing their flesh and blood presence on a government form, with a similar logic that allows the Fetus to Vote in those states which ban brown or student or old people from voting.
 
2013-09-03 09:59:36 AM

c0penhaqen: Personally, I don't have a problem with a change in the law which requires a NICS check for all members of the trust or changes which require CLEO sign-off as long as a few provisions are provided.


I'd rather just remove that requirement so that police chiefs can't supplant the law with their own personal opinions.
 
2013-09-03 10:02:25 AM

n0nthing: redmid17: n0nthing: It's also not terribly difficult, expensive, or illegal to purchase a machine gun kit, an 80% receiver, and a dremel.

Make sure you take some video of that when you're finished with your project. I always enjoyed a nice laugh.

fair enough, the crazies who bang out that stuff with a dremel and a hammer etc. are always worth a chuckle.


I've built my own AK. Mine looked like crap because I was a newbie and dead tired at the time, but it worked. Never fired it again after the first test, and it's just a souvenier today. and yes, it was done legally - cost about $20 for the form if i recall. some of my friends' aks look and work really good.

modifying a gun and making your own silencer isn't easy, and requires craftsman skill and some good tools. you need

1. a long barrel, or extra long barrel for semi autos
2. a threading tool and metal lathe
3. a tapping tool
4. the actual can (oil filter? haven't seen but sounds legit)
5. some way of replacing the front sight if you had to remove it
6. good old lock tite

this is just a guess here as ive never done it or would I. but the point is that it isn't as easy as sticking an oil filter onto the end of your pistol.

and i will probably try to get a suppressor through nfa process. I'd hate to lose hearing because I had to fire my gun inside my own home in self defense.
 
2013-09-03 10:03:22 AM

HotIgneous Intruder: Bumpfire, ftw.


For the lose.

Anyone who needs to hook a part of their Bushmaster to their belt in order to clumsily engage automatic fire is going to get owned by someone with a Ruger II. Yes, technically you are on autofire. From the hip. With a special hook. That would never become a problem in a firefight.
 
2013-09-03 10:03:27 AM
i75.photobucket.com

Don't care, going back to lolcats.
 
2013-09-03 10:04:33 AM
Are gun rights advocates against any additional regulations? That is what I am getting out of this. Is it that they are afraid of a slippery slope? Give and inch and Obama has your guns? Is regulation a dirty word? Please explain.
 
2013-09-03 10:05:07 AM

technofiend: IdBeCrazyIf: Skyd1v: For about 9 bucks you can piece together an adapter from the spare parts bins at your local hardware store.

/not that I would ever do that

That's the only thing I never understood in all these zombie movies is that you always invariably get the one guy who knows his guns and yet they never bring up the suppressor can when every single person I know who knows guns is aware of how to do this.

This is what bothers me about things like walking dead. Nobody thought to roll around Atlanta at night in a golf cart mode Prius with suppressed weapons and night vision gear. Or engineer industrial-scale murder with road or farm equipment.


OHHHH combine with reaping blades..... 1500hp of spinning death.
 
2013-09-03 10:05:52 AM

Devo: Are gun rights advocates against any additional regulations? That is what I am getting out of this. Is it that they are afraid of a slippery slope? Give and inch and Obama has your guns? Is regulation a dirty word? Please explain.


Gun rights advocates generally oppose idiotic regulation based upon no actual demonstrable need, which is the case for the regulation under discussion.
 
2013-09-03 10:05:58 AM
Sounds like everyone will have to live under New Jerseys laws regarding getting a FIC & Handgun permit.
 
2013-09-03 10:09:36 AM

Devo: Are gun rights advocates against any additional regulations? That is what I am getting out of this. Is it that they are afraid of a slippery slope? Give and inch and Obama has your guns? Is regulation a dirty word? Please explain.


Did you read the article?  Are you familiar with the NFA process of obtaining machine guns, silencers?  Are you aware of any actual instances where the "loophole" Obama is saving us from resulted in an NFA item falling into the hands of a prohibited person?  Let alone any instances where said NFA item was used in the commission of a crime.
 
2013-09-03 10:09:49 AM

whatsupchuck: Is this a "We just need better enforcement of existing laws" week, or is it an "Existing laws are stupid and unenforcable" week?  What with the excitement of the long holiday it seems I've lost track.


It is "Let's pass us some laws to stop somethin' I saw on the teevee! Herp!" week.
 
2013-09-03 10:10:12 AM

pedrop357: I wonder if even ONE person has successfully done this.



According to the ATF, no.  No one has ever done this.  One person has tried and the ATF denied them.


Devo: Are gun rights advocates against any additional regulations? That is what I am getting out of this. Is it that they are afraid of a slippery slope? Give and inch and Obama has your guns? Is regulation a dirty word? Please explain.


Gun rights advocates are against adding additional regulation to and already cumbersome and lengthy process (my last NFA process took seven months start to finish) that is designed to prevent an issue that the ATF itself says has never happened, and can't happen anyways because the person taking possession of the NFA item still has to fill out a From 4473 and get a background check.
 
2013-09-03 10:10:38 AM
What's the big deal with silencers? If I've learned anything from Hollywood it's that a gun can be rendered noiseless by the simple application of a pillow. We all have pillows lying around.
 
2013-09-03 10:11:01 AM

n0nthing: Pelvic Splanchnic Ganglion: n0nthing: It's also not terribly difficult, expensive, or illegal to purchase a machine gun kit, an 80% receiver, and a dremel.

Yeah, then there's that whole "ten years and $10,000 fine" thing for illegal manufacturing of a Title II firearm...

Sure, building out the receiver as full auto is probably not healthy for your future freedom...merely pointing out that there are relatively easy and cheap ways to legally obtain all of the parts needed to assemble a full-auto firearm.


You have to wonder then why are they going after the far more difficult and expensive ways to obtain machine guns and suppressors? They're not targeting the 'loophole', they're focusing on the least likely way a criminal will get this hands on a machine gun. It really does look like they're just doing this to piss off gun owners, and not combat crime in any manner.
 
2013-09-03 10:11:12 AM

Lutrasimilis: HotIgneous Intruder: Bumpfire, ftw.

For the lose.

Anyone who needs to hook a part of their Bushmaster to their belt in order to clumsily engage automatic fire is going to get owned by someone with a Ruger II. Yes, technically you are on autofire. From the hip. With a special hook. That would never become a problem in a firefight.


You should re-review your bumpfire setup. I can bumpfire with the weapon shouldered and no "attachment" etc.
 
2013-09-03 10:11:17 AM

Krymson Tyde: What's the big deal with silencers? If I've learned anything from Hollywood it's that a gun can be rendered noiseless by the simple application of a pillow. We all have pillows lying around.


And an empty water bottle.
 
2013-09-03 10:12:50 AM

Fark It: Krymson Tyde: What's the big deal with silencers? If I've learned anything from Hollywood it's that a gun can be rendered noiseless by the simple application of a pillow. We all have pillows lying around.

And an empty water bottle.


Pillows work once. Water bottle sucks, water bottle stuffed with something like choreboy sponges work OK. Oil filters are still the best.
 
2013-09-03 10:13:11 AM

pyrotek85: n0nthing: Pelvic Splanchnic Ganglion: n0nthing: It's also not terribly difficult, expensive, or illegal to purchase a machine gun kit, an 80% receiver, and a dremel.

Yeah, then there's that whole "ten years and $10,000 fine" thing for illegal manufacturing of a Title II firearm...

Sure, building out the receiver as full auto is probably not healthy for your future freedom...merely pointing out that there are relatively easy and cheap ways to legally obtain all of the parts needed to assemble a full-auto firearm.

You have to wonder then why are they going after the far more difficult and expensive ways to obtain machine guns and suppressors? They're not targeting the 'loophole', they're focusing on the least likely way a criminal will get this hands on a machine gun. It really does look like they're just doing this to piss off gun owners, and not combat crime in any manner.


It's propaganda.  If you're against it then you want to make it easy for criminals and turrsts to get machine guns that can shoot down airplanes silently from the hip.
 
2013-09-03 10:14:38 AM

c0penhaqen: The reason most people set up a trust or LLC to obtain NFA items is to name family members as members of the trust. When an individual is named as the owner of an NFA item, upon that persons' death the item in question should be forfeited to the BATFE. It cannot be willed or left to family members.


Completely untrue. They are passed, tax free, on a Form 5.

The reason you do a trust is a) to avoid the CLEO b) so that other family members can possess the items. If the Form 4 is filled out as an individual, only the person who is list on the form can possess the Title II weapon.
 
2013-09-03 10:16:31 AM

heili skrimsli: And even at 30 dB reduction, they're still very loud, and you still need to wear hearing protection.


Typical shooters hearing protection muffs are 26 to 30 db of reduction.  33 is about the max.   So no, if the silencer reduces it by 30db, you do NOT need hearing protection.  It would be no louder than shooting with a good pair of hearing protection muffs already on.
 
2013-09-03 10:17:46 AM

Kit Fister: Fark It: Krymson Tyde: What's the big deal with silencers? If I've learned anything from Hollywood it's that a gun can be rendered noiseless by the simple application of a pillow. We all have pillows lying around.

And an empty water bottle.

Pillows work once. Water bottle sucks, water bottle stuffed with something like choreboy sponges work OK. Oil filters are still the best.


If you have several bottles you can cut and then stack them creating baffles which increases the efficacy and duration that you can use it. With that and duct tape you can make it through a 10 round clip before it needs replaced, but its such a damn hassle you might as well use an oil filter.
 
2013-09-03 10:19:00 AM

EvilEgg: dittybopper: The ease with which criminals can legally by machine guns they aren't eligible to own just has to stop!

Mrbogey: Obama actually thinks this happens.

I know, the GOP would never try to pass laws to combat a problem that didn't exist.  That is why they are so down on the anti-voter fraud laws.


Both sides are bad, so vote Democrat?
 
2013-09-03 10:19:05 AM

youmightberight: You should re-review your bumpfire setup. I can bumpfire with the weapon shouldered and no "attachment" etc.


I just reviewed the guys showing off their various setups on Youtube. I haven't seen anyone pull it off without having to bind the weapon to them in some way, or else to hold the weapon in a less controllable manner.
 
2013-09-03 10:19:13 AM

Kit Fister: Fark It: Krymson Tyde: What's the big deal with silencers? If I've learned anything from Hollywood it's that a gun can be rendered noiseless by the simple application of a pillow. We all have pillows lying around.

And an empty water bottle.

Pillows work once. Water bottle sucks, water bottle stuffed with something like choreboy sponges work OK. Oil filters are still the best.


Oil filters are silly unless you're really good at point shooting or at point blank range.
 
2013-09-03 10:19:28 AM

Fark It: EvilEgg: I know, the GOP would never try to pass laws to combat a problem that didn't exist. That is why they are so down on the anti-voter fraud laws.

At least the GOP does it the hard way and goes through the legislature.  Obama is doing this with a stroke of his pen.  And you can actually count instances of voter-fraud (not that that justifies voter disenfranchisement).  Felons obtaining NFA weapons and using them in crimes via the NFA registry, OTOH.....


If this EO does nothing, and curtails no-one's rights, then why complain about it?
 
2013-09-03 10:21:31 AM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: It should be criminal to own a machine gun or a silencer anyway.


I think it should be illegal to own a car with a muffler.
 
2013-09-03 10:21:47 AM
give me doughnuts: If this EO does nothing, and curtails no-one's rights, then why complain about it?

Who said it does nothing?  It does nothing to curtail an actual problem with firearms getting into the hands of criminals.  It does  a whole heck of a lot to make it more difficult, or impossible, for law abiding people to get certain firearms.
 
2013-09-03 10:23:23 AM
Also, suppressors shouldn't be NFA items.
 
2013-09-03 10:24:29 AM

dr_blasto: Kit Fister: Fark It: Krymson Tyde: What's the big deal with silencers? If I've learned anything from Hollywood it's that a gun can be rendered noiseless by the simple application of a pillow. We all have pillows lying around.

And an empty water bottle.

Pillows work once. Water bottle sucks, water bottle stuffed with something like choreboy sponges work OK. Oil filters are still the best.

Oil filters are silly unless you're really good at point shooting or at point blank range.


Laser sight works fine.
 
2013-09-03 10:24:35 AM

Onkel Buck: Patience is a virtue of the pyscho, subby.

/look up bump firing on youtube, its legal. Sleep well gun grabbers


Ahemm, you will be told what is "legal" and what is not.
Inch by inch, increment by increment.
Derp by derp.
Move along.
 
2013-09-03 10:25:24 AM
And you know, those laws will really stop criminals.....
 
2013-09-03 10:25:47 AM
Rule of thumb, if you want it, there is a Nanny agin' it.
 
2013-09-03 10:25:47 AM

alienated: 4/10, subby. You'll get some bites


1, Skim article - Check.
2, Scroll down to comments section. - Check
3, Copypasta the Weeners FTFA. - Check
4, Submit said copypasta as 'clever' headline to Fark. - Check
5, Instant Green Light - Check.

Da phark?

0/10 for lack of any cognitive thinking.

/Really, Fark?
//Seriously?
 
2013-09-03 10:26:43 AM

smokingcrator: heili skrimsli: And even at 30 dB reduction, they're still very loud, and you still need to wear hearing protection.

Typical shooters hearing protection muffs are 26 to 30 db of reduction.  33 is about the max.   So no, if the silencer reduces it by 30db, you do NOT need hearing protection.  It would be no louder than shooting with a good pair of hearing protection muffs already on.


Sounds great. Instead of standing next to a jet engine with no protection, it's like attending a loud rock concert with no ear protection. Lord knows why one wouldn't want to use both if you're shooting for any extended period of time...
 
2013-09-03 10:29:07 AM

smokingcrator: Typical shooters hearing protection muffs are 26 to 30 db of reduction.  33 is about the max.   So no, if the silencer reduces it by 30db, you do NOT need hearing protection.  It would be no louder than shooting with a good pair of hearing protection muffs already on.


This is a horribly misguided sentiment. What you really ought to be doing is understanding the actual risk your weapon presents to your hearing.

Firing an M1 Garand (old school battle rifle firing .30-06) generates 168db of sound pressure, so one hearing protection device that reduces 30db will only take it down to 138db, which is still above the threshold of audible pain (130db) and well above the threshold for hearing damage at 85db. To safely fire such a weapon would require at a minimum both earmuffs and earplugs.

Silencers are only one way to reduce sound pressure, but a smart person uses all available tools at their disposal to protect their hearing.

Remember: All hearing damage is permanent. It might not feel like a lot today or tomorrow, but 30 years of that shiat will leave you deaf.
 
2013-09-03 10:29:28 AM

Mrbogey: Obama actually thinks this happens.


No. The right wing is the main reason more effective rules and laws don't go through. The ATF is intentionally hamstrung.
 
2013-09-03 10:30:10 AM
redmid17:

Sounds great. Instead of standing next to a jet engine with no protection, it's like attending a loud rock concert with no ear protection. Lord knows why one wouldn't want to use both if you're shooting for any extended period of time...

Yup. I shoot virtually everything suppressed and I use 30 db muffs with plugs. The only thing I would consider shooting without protection is my suppressed .22 with subsonic ammo.
 
2013-09-03 10:30:44 AM

redmid17: smokingcrator: heili skrimsli: And even at 30 dB reduction, they're still very loud, and you still need to wear hearing protection.

Typical shooters hearing protection muffs are 26 to 30 db of reduction.  33 is about the max.   So no, if the silencer reduces it by 30db, you do NOT need hearing protection.  It would be no louder than shooting with a good pair of hearing protection muffs already on.

Sounds great. Instead of standing next to a jet engine with no protection, it's like attending a loud rock concert with no ear protection. Lord knows why one wouldn't want to use both if you're shooting for any extended period of time...


Heck even .22s will damage your hearing, despite what some people will say. It's not as loud, but it's still enough to cause damage. Outdoor vs indoor shooting makes a difference too, some guns are so damn loud I'd never want to be shooting indoors with one.
 
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