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(Some Guy)   Too many criminals are paying $500 to a lawyer to establish a trust, then spending $15k more to buy a machine gun, $1k more to buy a silencer, $400 more in tax stamps and waiting 8-10 months to go kill a bunch of people   (blog.princelaw.com) divider line 346
    More: Stupid, rulemaking process, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, law enforcement officer, NICS, FFL  
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12698 clicks; posted to Main » on 03 Sep 2013 at 9:05 AM (47 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-03 08:23:42 AM
The ease with which criminals can legally by machine guns they aren't eligible to own just has to stop!
 
2013-09-03 08:36:15 AM

dittybopper: The ease with which criminals can legally by machine guns they aren't eligible to own just has to stop!


"MACHINE GUNS!  SILENCERS!  FELONS!"

That's all anyone is going to hear, and that's the extent to which the lemmings are going to delve into this.
 
2013-09-03 08:47:24 AM
Obama actually thinks this happens.
 
2013-09-03 08:56:45 AM

dittybopper: The ease with which criminals can legally by machine guns they aren't eligible to own just has to stop!


Mrbogey: Obama actually thinks this happens.


I know, the GOP would never try to pass laws to combat a problem that didn't exist.  That is why they are so down on the anti-voter fraud laws.
 
2013-09-03 09:01:29 AM

EvilEgg: I know, the GOP would never try to pass laws to combat a problem that didn't exist. That is why they are so down on the anti-voter fraud laws.


At least the GOP does it the hard way and goes through the legislature.  Obama is doing this with a stroke of his pen.  And you can actually count instances of voter-fraud (not that that justifies voter disenfranchisement).  Felons obtaining NFA weapons and using them in crimes via the NFA registry, OTOH.....
 
2013-09-03 09:08:01 AM
cdn3.whatculture.com
 
2013-09-03 09:10:02 AM
It should be criminal to own a machine gun or a silencer anyway.
 
2013-09-03 09:10:39 AM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: It should be criminal to own a machine gun or a silencer anyway.


Here comes the derp.
 
2013-09-03 09:10:57 AM
I feel safer already.
 
2013-09-03 09:11:12 AM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: It should be criminal to own a machine gun or a silencer anyway.


When the Zombies come you will change your mind
 
2013-09-03 09:11:36 AM
Hey it's ok if these loopholes exist because only well off people can use them and those people should not have to follow the same laws as poor people and those in the middle class. That's the merkin way.
 
2013-09-03 09:11:52 AM
thought it was called a suppressor?
 
2013-09-03 09:12:48 AM
4/10, subby. You'll get some bites
 
2013-09-03 09:13:07 AM
Of course the Obama administration ignores that whomever is picking up the NFA item still fills out a 4473 and has to under go a NICS check.

Sure, they could still hand them to a felon, but then so could someone who fills out the Form 4 as an individual. The felon still can't possess the item. This just makes it more difficult for all members of a family to legally possess the NFA item.
 
2013-09-03 09:13:23 AM
I came in to say, 'queue dittybopper', but I see I'm late...:)
 
2013-09-03 09:13:49 AM

Headso: Hey it's ok if these loopholes exist because only well off people can use them and those people should not have to follow the same laws as poor people and those in the middle class. That's the merkin way.


I say eliminate the loophole and make it available to everyone.  If you are going to err on the side of caution always go with more personal freedom not less.

Who am I kidding, it's For The Children!TM
 
2013-09-03 09:13:59 AM

gopher321: thought it was called a suppressor?


"Help, we're being suppressed!"
 
2013-09-03 09:14:40 AM

EvilEgg: dittybopper: The ease with which criminals can legally by machine guns they aren't eligible to own just has to stop!

Mrbogey: Obama actually thinks this happens.

I know, the GOP would never try to pass laws to combat a problem that didn't exist.  That is why they are so down on the anti-voter fraud laws.


Ah, I see my work is done here. I'm going to take an early lunch. Thanks.
 
2013-09-03 09:17:17 AM

gopher321: thought it was called a suppressor?


Yes, and you can actually make one really easily out of an oil filter, so even attempting any regulation of them is pretty stupid
 
2013-09-03 09:18:05 AM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: It should be criminal to own a machine gun or a silencer anyway.


I used to respect you. Moron.
 
2013-09-03 09:18:46 AM

IdBeCrazyIf: gopher321: thought it was called a suppressor?

Yes, and you can actually make one really easily out of an oil filter, so even attempting any regulation of them is pretty stupid


And for $50 plus the tax stamp, you can buy an adapter that uses oil filters instead of a dedicated can.
 
2013-09-03 09:21:34 AM

Kit Fister: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: It should be criminal to own a machine gun or a silencer anyway.

I used to respect you. Moron.


That post was meant to be a joke, but I completely farked it up and now it just looks like straight trolling. I think it's because I'm in a staff meeting and I barely made it out of bed this morning.

I'd go ahead and disregard anything I post today...
 
2013-09-03 09:26:24 AM

Kit Fister: IdBeCrazyIf: gopher321: thought it was called a suppressor?

Yes, and you can actually make one really easily out of an oil filter, so even attempting any regulation of them is pretty stupid

And for $50 plus the tax stamp, you can buy an adapter that uses oil filters instead of a dedicated can.




For about 9 bucks you can piece together an adapter from the spare parts bins at your local hardware store.

/not that I would ever do that
 
2013-09-03 09:26:27 AM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: It should be criminal to own a machine gun or a silencer anyway.


I can see why an ignorant person might be concerned about person that passes a background check even more intensive than the usual one for buying a regular rifle legally transferring and owning a $15,000 machine gun, but why exactly should owning a silencer be illegal?

In some European countries, such as Sweden and Norway,  where firearm rights are strictly controlled, use of a silencer is very common.  Put everything else about their firearm aside, and they got this one right:  a device that reduces (does not eliminate) the report of a shot by about -30db protects the hearing of the user and bystanders.  That's a safety, health and politeness all delivered by a little metal tube with some baffles in it.

Only Hollywood silencers make guns go FFFT, FFFT, FFFT!  Ban Hollywood silencers, by all means.  They're only used by scumbags.

Incidentally, you probably already own one.  They're mandatory to stick on the back of your car.  The device that Hiram Maxim invented he called a 'silencer', but you also frequently call them 'muffler'.
 
2013-09-03 09:27:35 AM
Making it harder got get guns?
I'm ok with this.
 
2013-09-03 09:27:56 AM

Kit Fister: IdBeCrazyIf: gopher321: thought it was called a suppressor?

Yes, and you can actually make one really easily out of an oil filter, so even attempting any regulation of them is pretty stupid

And for $50 plus the tax stamp, you can buy an adapter that uses oil filters instead of a dedicated can.


However based on ATF rulings, you, as an individual, cannot legally replace the oil filter. It must be done by an 07/02 as a repair. Cadiz Gunworks will replace it for you for a small fee if you buy their version.
 
2013-09-03 09:28:02 AM
I bought a house out of an estate sale, contents included. The place was a wreck and when cleaning it out we discovered a 50 caliber anti-aircraft gun and a collection of hand grenades. The guy who lived there would have been great on Fark but he did not live long enough. he lived with his mom, collected weapons (some he even fired in the house as we found bullets in the walls), made his own ammo and from what the neighbors told me, he hated everyone.

//The cops came and took all the weapons away when I reported them.
 
2013-09-03 09:28:23 AM

Skyd1v: For about 9 bucks you can piece together an adapter from the spare parts bins at your local hardware store.

/not that I would ever do that


That's the only thing I never understood in all these zombie movies is that you always invariably get the one guy who knows his guns and yet they never bring up the suppressor can when every single person I know who knows guns is aware of how to do this.
 
2013-09-03 09:28:47 AM

HotIgneous Intruder: Making it harder got get guns?
I'm ok with this.



that hurt my brain...:)
 
2013-09-03 09:30:39 AM
Derp.It took me just under a year from the day I had enough money and knew what weapon I wanted. You literally have to get your local Chief of Police to sign a letter saying you're okay. If you live in a big town? Well...good luck.
 
2013-09-03 09:31:07 AM
Or we could just stop treating corporations like people
 
2013-09-03 09:32:00 AM

plausdeny: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: It should be criminal to own a machine gun or a silencer anyway.

I can see why an ignorant person might be concerned about person that passes a background check even more intensive than the usual one for buying a regular rifle legally transferring and owning a $15,000 machine gun, but why exactly should owning a silencer be illegal?

In some European countries, such as Sweden and Norway,  where firearm rights are strictly controlled, use of a silencer is very common.  Put everything else about their firearm aside, and they got this one right:  a device that reduces (does not eliminate) the report of a shot by about -30db protects the hearing of the user and bystanders.  That's a safety, health and politeness all delivered by a little metal tube with some baffles in it.

Only Hollywood silencers make guns go FFFT, FFFT, FFFT!  Ban Hollywood silencers, by all means.  They're only used by scumbags.

Incidentally, you probably already own one.  They're mandatory to stick on the back of your car.  The device that Hiram Maxim invented he called a 'silencer', but you also frequently call them 'muffler'.


Hollywood has a lot of credulous people believing a lot of false things about guns.  They're literally the worst source of gun information you could possibly find.
 
2013-09-03 09:33:13 AM

A Friendly Color: Derp.It took me just under a year from the day I had enough money and knew what weapon I wanted. You literally have to get your local Chief of Police to sign a letter saying you're okay. If you live in a big town? Well...good luck.


I am a resident of Louisville, Kentucky. I was informed that receiving a response on the ATF form from the local sheriff's office could take up to two weeks. The form was signed and returned to me within four business days.

/May actually have a suppressor in October.
//Was considering a second, but not sure if it will be practical now.
 
2013-09-03 09:33:24 AM

plausdeny: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: It should be criminal to own a machine gun or a silencer anyway.

I can see why an ignorant person might be concerned about person that passes a background check even more intensive than the usual one for buying a regular rifle legally transferring and owning a $15,000 machine gun, but why exactly should owning a silencer be illegal?

In some European countries, such as Sweden and Norway,  where firearm rights are strictly controlled, use of a silencer is very common.  Put everything else about their firearm aside, and they got this one right:  a device that reduces (does not eliminate) the report of a shot by about -30db protects the hearing of the user and bystanders.  That's a safety, health and politeness all delivered by a little metal tube with some baffles in it.

Only Hollywood silencers make guns go FFFT, FFFT, FFFT!  Ban Hollywood silencers, by all means.  They're only used by scumbags.

Incidentally, you probably already own one.  They're mandatory to stick on the back of your car.  The device that Hiram Maxim invented he called a 'silencer', but you also frequently call them 'muffler'.


Please contact your friend this Mr.Maxim. I would like to purchase a silencer muffler for my wife. She is louder than a machine gun (I'm guessing) and her report is lengthy indeed. Thank you.
 
2013-09-03 09:34:20 AM
But officer, these guns are part of my worship service! Here at the church of high caliber everyone gets a suppressed mp-5 for bingo night. Do you seriously expect us to mark bingo cards with *pens*?
 
2013-09-03 09:34:39 AM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Kit Fister: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: It should be criminal to own a machine gun or a silencer anyway.

I used to respect you. Moron.

That post was meant to be a joke, but I completely farked it up and now it just looks like straight trolling. I think it's because I'm in a staff meeting and I barely made it out of bed this morning.

I'd go ahead and disregard anything I post today...


It really is a limitation of text that there's no actual "sarcasm" font.  Someone should invent that.  Maybe like.. backwards italics?  To indicate a reverse emphasis?

That being said, it really is unfortunate how many people base all their firearm/accessory knowledge off what they see in TV and film.
 
2013-09-03 09:34:55 AM
Patience is a virtue of the pyscho, subby.

/look up bump firing on youtube, its legal. Sleep well gun grabbers
 
2013-09-03 09:35:40 AM
It's also not terribly difficult, expensive, or illegal to purchase a machine gun kit, an 80% receiver, and a dremel.
 
2013-09-03 09:38:41 AM
The reason most people set up a trust or LLC to obtain NFA items is to name family members as members of the trust. When an individual is named as the owner of an NFA item, upon that persons' death the item in question should be forfeited to the BATFE. It cannot be willed or left to family members. With a trust, my firearms remain the property of my family. Another advantage of a trust is that it eliminates the need for chief law enforcement officer sign-off. Many times the CLEO will not sign due to their personal opinions of "It should be criminal to own a machine gun or a silencer anyway." with no regard for the actual legality of the issue.

Is it possible for this avenue to be exploited by someone who cannot pass a NICS check becoming a part of a trust and gaining access to a NFA regulated firearm? Yes. Is it likely? No. Personally, I don't have a problem with a change in the law which requires a NICS check for all members of the trust or changes which require CLEO sign-off as long as a few provisions are provided.

1. allow holders of NFA items to will said items to family members or keep the provision that members of the trust may continue to hold the NFA item in an instance of death.

2. provide recourse for an applicant who is denied lawful ownership of an NFA item due to CLEO refusal to sign-off based on personal/political beleifs.
 
2013-09-03 09:38:48 AM

IdBeCrazyIf: Skyd1v: For about 9 bucks you can piece together an adapter from the spare parts bins at your local hardware store.

/not that I would ever do that

That's the only thing I never understood in all these zombie movies is that you always invariably get the one guy who knows his guns and yet they never bring up the suppressor can when every single person I know who knows guns is aware of how to do this.


This is what bothers me about things like walking dead. Nobody thought to roll around Atlanta at night in a golf cart mode Prius with suppressed weapons and night vision gear. Or engineer industrial-scale murder with road or farm equipment.
 
2013-09-03 09:38:57 AM
I just use a pillow for all my silenced shooting. It muffles the shot quite well, and all the feathers flying everywhere gives it a real "John Woo" feel to it.
 
2013-09-03 09:39:24 AM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Kit Fister: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: It should be criminal to own a machine gun or a silencer anyway.

I used to respect you. Moron.

That post was meant to be a joke, but I completely farked it up and now it just looks like straight trolling. I think it's because I'm in a staff meeting and I barely made it out of bed this morning.

I'd go ahead and disregard anything I post today...


meh, my sarcasm detector picked it up just fine.
 
2013-09-03 09:40:18 AM

n0nthing: It's also not terribly difficult, expensive, or illegal to purchase a machine gun kit, an 80% receiver, and a dremel.


Make sure you take some video of that when you're finished with your project. I always enjoyed a nice laugh.
 
2013-09-03 09:40:25 AM
For a new regulation that allegedly does nothing, people sure are awfully butthurt about it.
 
2013-09-03 09:40:37 AM

n0nthing: It's also not terribly difficult, expensive, or illegal to purchase a machine gun kit, an 80% receiver, and a dremel.


Yeah, then there's that whole "ten years and $10,000 fine" thing for illegal manufacturing of a Title II firearm...
 
2013-09-03 09:40:40 AM

MythDragon: I just use a pillow for all my silenced shooting. It muffles the shot quite well, and all the feathers flying everywhere gives it a real "John Woo" feel to it.


You are confusing the consequences of your hearing loss with an actual muffling of the gunshot.

/I have the same problem.
 
2013-09-03 09:42:26 AM

Fark It: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: It should be criminal to own a machine gun or a silencer anyway.

Here comes the derp.


Oh, you guys had it covered in the Boobiess.
 
2013-09-03 09:42:42 AM

technofiend: This is what bothers me about things like walking dead. Nobody thought to roll around Atlanta at night in a golf cart mode Prius with suppressed weapons and night vision gear. Or engineer industrial-scale murder with road or farm equipment.


Thank you!

I think the first people I'd try to gather together in a situation like that would be folks who run a meat packing plant, and range owners.
 
2013-09-03 09:43:07 AM

redmid17: n0nthing: It's also not terribly difficult, expensive, or illegal to purchase a machine gun kit, an 80% receiver, and a dremel.

Make sure you take some video of that when you're finished with your project. I always enjoyed a nice laugh.


fair enough, the crazies who bang out that stuff with a dremel and a hammer etc. are always worth a chuckle.
 
2013-09-03 09:43:11 AM

MythDragon: I just use a pillow for all my silenced shooting. It muffles the shot quite well, and all the feathers flying everywhere gives it a real "John Woo" feel to it.


I've never understood why hitmen don't just wear ear muffs like at the gun range. Seems a lot cheaper and more practical than using a silencer.
 
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