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(BBC)   It's worse then expected; the NSA hasn't been spying on just a few thousand or even million people. They've been spying on Brazilians   (bbc.co.uk) divider line 115
    More: Scary, NSA, Brazilians, Politics of Brazil, President of Mexico, Glenn Greenwald, secret documents  
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1457 clicks; posted to Politics » on 02 Sep 2013 at 8:44 PM (51 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-02 06:31:33 PM
Does this leak help American privacy?
No , it greatly damages relations with one of Americas allies in South America.
Still think Snowdens a hero?
He is a spy who is looking to cause as much damage to the US as possible.
 
2013-09-02 06:34:52 PM

sithon: Does this leak help American privacy?
No , it greatly damages relations with one of Americas allies in South America.
Still think Snowdens a hero?
He is a spy who is looking to cause as much damage to the US as possible.


This is by the Brit, Greedwald, not Snowden.  Though I agree with your general point.
 
2013-09-02 06:39:38 PM

Satanic_Hamster: This is by the Brit, Greedwald, not Snowden. Though I agree with your general point.


He obtained the info from Snowden.  Therefore Snowden is the leaker.
 
2013-09-02 06:53:18 PM
I thought Greenwald said he was going to put the boot into the UK after Miranda was detained. That doesn't seem to have happened. I wonder what his game really is and who is really pulling his strings
 
2013-09-02 06:57:48 PM

Satanic_Hamster: sithon: Does this leak help American privacy?
No , it greatly damages relations with one of Americas allies in South America.
Still think Snowdens a hero?
He is a spy who is looking to cause as much damage to the US as possible.

This is by the Brit, Greedwald, not Snowden.  Though I agree with your general point.


Greenwald was born and raised in America
 
2013-09-02 07:01:36 PM

21-7-b: Greenwald was born and raised in America


Not REAL America.  Otherwise he wouldn't be writing for a British newspaper living in South America and having the gay sex.
 
2013-09-02 07:44:39 PM
Ummm... When I was 11 years-old I knew that the NSA monitored all electronic and other signals intel pretty much everywhere in the world.

Why? Phillip Agee wrote a book about it 40 years ago. CIA and NSA have been tracking everything they can since the Cold War. Hell, since Wild Bill Donovan came up with the OSS.

I'm fairly sure every foreign intelligence service and country is aware of this fact.

We're just pissed they turned those tools on us. And we should be because we pay for it.
 
2013-09-02 08:13:54 PM

sithon: Does this leak help American privacy?
No , it greatly damages relations with one of Americas allies in South America.
Still think Snowdens a hero?
He is a spy who is looking to cause as much damage to the US as possible.


Just remember, folks. Americans are the only people who matter in the world. The rest of the world can go screw themselves if they don't like what America does, and they especially have no right to get all uppity and complain if America does it to them. F*CK YEAH!
 
2013-09-02 08:41:14 PM

mamoru: sithon: Does this leak help American privacy?
No , it greatly damages relations with one of Americas allies in South America.
Still think Snowdens a hero?
He is a spy who is looking to cause as much damage to the US as possible.

Just remember, folks. Americans are the only people who matter in the world. The rest of the world can go screw themselves if they don't like what America does, and they especially have no right to get all uppity and complain if America does it to them. F*CK YEAH!


The reality is that countries have secrets from other countries and countries try to get at other countries' secrets. It's the way of the world.
 
2013-09-02 08:54:07 PM
We spy on other countries?  Where's the fainting couch.
 
2013-09-02 08:58:22 PM

NewportBarGuy: since Wild Bill Donovan came up with the OSS.


He and J. Edgar Hoover were in a competition of equals, which FDR loved to arrange, to see who got the gold star on their report card,
 
2013-09-02 08:58:40 PM

NewportBarGuy: Ummm... When I was 11 years-old I knew that the NSA monitored all electronic and other signals intel pretty much everywhere in the world.

Why? Phillip Agee wrote a book about it 40 years ago. CIA and NSA have been tracking everything they can since the Cold War. Hell, since Wild Bill Donovan came up with the OSS.

I'm fairly sure every foreign intelligence service and country is aware of this fact.

We're just pissed they turned those tools on us. And we should be because we pay for it.


You're just pissed because you thought they meant it when they said they'd only use it on "bad guys". Those of us who are more cynical always knew they meant they were using it on everyone.
 
2013-09-02 09:00:56 PM
Spying on Brazil? Can you really blame them?

i1126.photobucket.com
 
2013-09-02 09:01:42 PM
But was it really "SPY" spying we were doing? Or were we just looking inquisitively over their shoulder?

Cuz there's a difference between discreetly reading the same newspaper that someone else is reading vs. breaking into his office and rooting through his desk.
 
2013-09-02 09:01:59 PM
Yeah, I'd spy on brazil too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYA9twQXBq8 (nsfw-ish)
 
2013-09-02 09:03:10 PM
Americans only care about Brazil's opinion of them when it gives them a reason to whine about something. Or when cotton's involved.
 
2013-09-02 09:05:06 PM

sithon: Satanic_Hamster: This is by the Brit, Greedwald, not Snowden. Though I agree with your general point.

He obtained the info from Snowden.  Therefore Snowden is the leaker.


Greenwald is a reporter and doesn't have a security clearance. However no good is served by this, it will just cause problem for our international relations, and hurt existing trade deals.
 
2013-09-02 09:05:59 PM

sithon: Does this leak help American privacy?
No , it greatly damages relations with one of Americas allies in South America.
Still think Snowdens a hero?
He is a spy who is looking to cause as much damage to the US as possible.


Typical fascist. Blame the guy who reported the crime, not the one who committed it.
 
2013-09-02 09:08:45 PM
So?
 
2013-09-02 09:08:48 PM

Gyrfalcon: You're just pissed because you thought they meant it when they said they'd only use it on "bad guys".


I was that old when I found out they used the CIA to do basically the same sh*t the mafia does. No, I've always known they were assholes. I just liked to think the majority of what they did was outside CONUS.

Once they decided to turn the entire apparatus onto ourselves? They went full retard.

I'm fine with them listening to everything outside the US. Hell, they've been doing industrial espionage and counter-espionage forever.

2wolves: He and J. Edgar Hoover were in a competition of equals, which FDR loved to arrange, to see who got the gold star on their report card,


I like that J. Edgar created the FBI. Great organization on the whole. We need federal agents for large-scale crimes that span the several states. But, J. Edgar has a lot of sh*t going on. I don't know enough about him, but what I do know makes me question his motives. He was an innovator, but he got power hungry.

A lot of that could seem to come from the fact that Congress tried to kill the FBI at every early stage, but he became a lot like Nixon. Afraid of his own shadow.
 
2013-09-02 09:09:31 PM

Arachnophobe: Spying on Brazil? Can you really blame them?

[i1126.photobucket.com image 850x850]

 Maybe Greenwald would like it more if they were spying on this:
dyertimes.com/I know I would
 
2013-09-02 09:10:14 PM

LoneWolf343: Typical fascist. Blame the guy who reported the crime, not the one who committed it.


Please name what's illegal by reading emails of Brazilians.
 
2013-09-02 09:10:55 PM

sithon: Does this leak help American privacy?
No , it greatly damages relations with one of Americas allies in South America.
Still think Snowdens a hero?
He is a spy who is looking to cause as much damage to the US as possible.


Nice troll... I'll bite.

Who is the evil one? The organization that spied on the Brazilians? Or the man who exposed the act of spying?

/do you always kill the messenger?
 
2013-09-02 09:22:08 PM

sithon: Does this leak help American privacy?
No , it greatly damages relations with one of Americas allies in South America.
Still think Snowdens a hero?
He is a spy who is looking to cause as much damage to the US as possible.


I think the US Government is doing a fine enough job hurting our relations, thank you.

Not even the UK will back us in Syria now. This administration has alienated the entire world.
 
2013-09-02 09:24:54 PM

Nemo's Brother: This administration has alienated the entire world.


Just this administration? You are such a Boy Scout.
 
2013-09-02 09:29:11 PM

sithon:  looking to cause as much damage to the US as possible.


Good. The US needs to be taken down a peg or two.

/hi NSA!
 
2013-09-02 09:29:17 PM
Fairy soon there will be a U.N. resolution from the South America coalition revoking the use of 'America' by the filthy Gringo's in the United States of America.

/The mess that the Republicans have bestowed on the World for 60 years are coming to bite the U.S.A. in its ass.
//Its all Japans fault anyways(bombed Pearl Harbor and the U.S. entered the world stage as the worlds cop, because nukes and Israel).
 
2013-09-02 09:29:46 PM
Obligatory:

Donald Rumsfeld is giving the president his daily briefing. He concludes by saying: "Yesterday, 3 Brazilian soldiers were killed."

"OH NO!" the President exclaims. "That's terrible!"

His staff sits stunned at this display of emotion, nervously watching as the President sits, head in hands.

Finally, the President looks up and asks, "How many is a brazillion?"
 
2013-09-02 09:30:37 PM

Nemo's Brother: sithon: Does this leak help American privacy?
No , it greatly damages relations with one of Americas allies in South America.
Still think Snowdens a hero?
He is a spy who is looking to cause as much damage to the US as possible.

I think the US Government is doing a fine enough job hurting our relations, thank you.

Not even the UK will back us in Syria now. This administration has alienated the entire world.


Yeah!  That Dumbocrat is sure a loser, I can't wait until GW Bush the Greatest runs again in 2014 to right the wrongs of 80% of an entire decade of inept mismanagement, empty-suited nefarious masterminded plotting to take down Murrica and her values.  Amen.
 
2013-09-02 09:30:46 PM
i'll happily review all females over the age of legal & under the age of 30 in bikinis
 
2013-09-02 09:35:16 PM

TalenLee: Americans only care about Brazil's opinion of them when it gives them a reason to whine about something. Or when cotton's involved.


That and it's the home of the next World Cup and Summer Olympics.

Which, if it's anything like the FIFA Confederations Cup, it's going to be a disaster.

So get ready for stories of Brazil racing to get it's infrastructure and stadiums ready in time as well as foreign media complaining that Brazil isn't perfect.
 
2013-09-02 09:35:49 PM

tbhouston: i'll happily review all females over the age of legal & under the age of 30 in bikinis


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_consent_in_Brazil

The age of consent in Brazil is 14, regardless of gender or sexual orientation, with a judicial precedent showing that a close-in-age exception that allows those aged 12 and 13 to engage in sexual activity with partners who are 5 years older or less is legal, although not constitutionally formalized.

igossip.com
 
2013-09-02 09:53:38 PM

NewportBarGuy: J. Edgar has a lot of sh*t going on


Had, not has.

He thought that all intel in the Americas was his bailiwick and FDR refused to more closely define area of operations for the OSS and the FBI.  Made for some interesting ops.
 
2013-09-02 09:55:56 PM

Satanic_Hamster: LoneWolf343: Typical fascist. Blame the guy who reported the crime, not the one who committed it.

Please name what's illegal by reading emails of Brazilians.


Whichever one the NSA is obviously feeling guilty about.
 
2013-09-02 09:58:09 PM
First thing I would do, as head of the post-9/11 intel harvester, is go after those who could prosecute me later.
 
2013-09-02 09:59:48 PM
Getting a heads up on impending policy of other countries is a basic purpose of intelligence agencies. NSA tampering with communications without being noticed is simply an upgrade over the CIA hiring insiders to carry nifty information out the front door.
 
2013-09-02 10:01:58 PM
Cm'n now- who doesn't like shaved pussy?
 
2013-09-02 10:02:42 PM

sithon: Does this leak help American privacy?
No , it greatly damages relations with one of Americas allies in South America.
Still think Snowdens a hero?
He is a spy who is looking to cause as much damage to the US as possible.


Well, you're certainly correct about damaged relations. As to whether Snowden is a bad guy or not, I think that's kind of irrelevant. If you're going to spy on your allies, naturally they're going to be pissed off when they find out and you basically get what you deserved. If some Chinese or Russian leaked info that showed how their government was spying on the US, we'd call them a hero. If a Brazilian did this, we'd still call him a hero.

I think having this made public helps American privacy (and freedom) in that it shows just how out of control all this spook stuff has gotten.

I do wonder about Snowden. How did a guy without a college degree 1) make such good money and 2) get a clearance that gave him access to all this info. I'm not saying not having a college degree is a bad thing, but without one it's pretty difficult to get your foot in the door with either the federal government or a Beltway Bandit corporation. And getting the clearance wouldn't be easy either. It's easy to believe this guy is a mole, although who he's working for isn't clear. It's not like Russia is a pal of radial Islam.
 
2013-09-02 10:05:25 PM

21-7-b: Satanic_Hamster: sithon: Does this leak help American privacy?
No , it greatly damages relations with one of Americas allies in South America.
Still think Snowdens a hero?
He is a spy who is looking to cause as much damage to the US as possible.

This is by the Brit, Greedwald, not Snowden.  Though I agree with your general point.

Greenwald was born and raised in America


Did he spend most of his days on the playground?
 
2013-09-02 10:06:48 PM

sithon: Does this leak help American privacy?
No , it greatly damages relations with one of Americas allies in South America.
Still think Snowdens a hero?
He is a spy who is looking to cause as much damage to the US as possible.


What the hell are you smoking? You think that the embarrassing revelation that the NSA is going far and beyond its authority to spy on people around the world who have no need to be spied on ISN'T going to cause lawmakers to eventually shut this stuff down?

Remember that one of the things Barack Obama campaigned on was increased protection for government whistleblower -- the sort of people who put themselves and their careers at risk to bring public attention to the government behaving in ways it shouldn't. Snowden's leaks have led to the revelation of secret interpretations of the Patriot Act, massive lying by the NSA and its contracted agencies to the United States Congress, a toothless rubber-stamp FISA court and other major areas of concern. He is, as the ACLU and other organizations have pointed out, exactly the definition of a whistleblower. We're not supposed to be comfortable when a whistleblower steps forward -- we're supposed to be alarmed. Snowden has helped many Americans to get to that point.

He's also demonstrating what many of us who felt we needed to vote third party in this last election have been saying for years -- that both the Democrats and the Republicans have been doing this stuff for at least a decade and can't be trusted to tell the truth. For example, President Obama has not only shown himself to be extraordinarily hard on whistleblowers, but also has directed his administration to bully other countries to behave the same way. His campaign rhetoric hasn't matched his actions.
 
2013-09-02 10:09:17 PM

sithon: Does this leak help American privacy?
No , it greatly damages relations with one of Americas allies in South America.
Still think Snowdens a hero?
He is a spy who is looking to cause as much damage to the US as possible.


I don't know why we have to characterize him as either a hero or a villain.  This isn't a comic book, and the real world is full of moral and legal gray areas.
 
2013-09-02 10:09:38 PM

sithon: Does this leak help American privacy?
No , it greatly damages relations with one of Americas allies in South America.
Still think Snowdens a hero?
He is a spy who is looking to cause as much damage to the US as possible.


Yes, I do still think Snowden is a hero. And Greenwald is too.

So what if it damages US relations with South America? The US government broke the law and now they have to pay a price for it.

Nations spy on each other, we all know that. But it is still illegal to do so, and when a nation catches someone spying on them they are going to punish that person. The US government wants to punish Snowden for "spying" on them by revealing their secrets. Now the Brazillians, and Mexicans, and Germans and a bunch of others would also like to punish the US for its spying on the world, and quite frankly a lot of Americans - myself included of course - would like the punish the government for spying on Americans!

Exposing crimes and trying to stop them is what good people do. You seem to think that crime is OK as long as you benefit from it. Well, I'm sorry, but morality doesn't work that way. Edward Snowden and Glenn Greenwald are American heroes because they have exposed the criminals in our own government and given us an opportunity to bring justice to Keith Alexander, Michael Hayden, George Bush, Barack Obama and all the others who have betrayed the trust of the American people and undermined the very foundation of our constitutional government.

I hope that enough Americans rise up and seize this opportunity to clean up the corruption in our government and build a better future for us. I am not hopeful. The vast majority seem more interested in gawking at Miley Cyrus than they are in having a good government.
 
2013-09-02 10:09:50 PM
Shocking! Next you'll be telling me we've destabilized South American countries in the past.


2wolves: NewportBarGuy: J. Edgar has a lot of sh*t going on

Had, not has.

He thought that all intel in the Americas was his bailiwick and FDR refused to more closely define area of operations for the OSS and the FBI.  Made for some interesting ops.


And J Edgar would blush if he saw what the FBI was up to these days. A network of paid informants that exceeds anything in the bureau's history. Hoover was a piker by comparison.
 
2013-09-02 10:21:35 PM

Moriel: sithon: Does this leak help American privacy?
No , it greatly damages relations with one of Americas allies in South America.
Still think Snowdens a hero?
He is a spy who is looking to cause as much damage to the US as possible.

Yes, I do still think Snowden is a hero. And Greenwald is too.

So what if it damages US relations with South America? The US government broke the law and now they have to pay a price for it.

Nations spy on each other, we all know that. But it is still illegal to do so, and when a nation catches someone spying on them they are going to punish that person. The US government wants to punish Snowden for "spying" on them by revealing their secrets. Now the Brazillians, and Mexicans, and Germans and a bunch of others would also like to punish the US for its spying on the world, and quite frankly a lot of Americans - myself included of course - would like the punish the government for spying on Americans!

Exposing crimes and trying to stop them is what good people do. You seem to think that crime is OK as long as you benefit from it. Well, I'm sorry, but morality doesn't work that way. Edward Snowden and Glenn Greenwald are American heroes because they have exposed the criminals in our own government and given us an opportunity to bring justice to Keith Alexander, Michael Hayden, George Bush, Barack Obama and all the others who have betrayed the trust of the American people and undermined the very foundation of our constitutional government.

I hope that enough Americans rise up and seize this opportunity to clean up the corruption in our government and build a better future for us. I am not hopeful. The vast majority seem more interested in gawking at Miley Cyrus than they are in having a good government.


Define corruption.
 
2013-09-02 10:24:24 PM

sithon: Does this leak help American privacy?
No , it greatly damages relations with one of Americas allies in South America.
Still think Snowdens a hero?
He is a spy who is looking to cause as much damage to the US as possible.


Your trolling aside, I think the spies who have caused as much damage to the US as possible are the NSA, primarily for spying on everyone that draws breath, but secondarily for having such lax internal security measures that a single independent contractor was able the extensive information on their spying activities.
 
2013-09-02 10:30:34 PM

sithon: Does this leak help American privacy?
No , it greatly damages relations with one of Americas allies in South America.


Well, yeah, spying on your allies  will sometimes damage relations with them.

What does that have to do with Snowden or Greenwald?  They just pointed it out, they didn't do it.
 
2013-09-02 10:30:40 PM

clowncar on fire: Define corruption.


Why? Are you too lazy to look it up yourself?

Corruption at dictionary.reference.com

Senses 3 and 4 both apply. "perversion of integrity" and "corrupt or dishonest proceedings".
 
2013-09-02 10:38:02 PM
static6.businessinsider.com
 
2013-09-02 10:38:58 PM
Here's a handy way to spy on Brazilians:
oldleathershoe.com
 
2013-09-02 10:48:25 PM
I don't have a problem with them spying on other countries.  That's their job.  I have a big problem with their domestic spying, a massive violation of the Constitution.
 
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