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(NPR)   Pastor preaching against vaccinations at megachurch, which is now the site of a measles outbreak: "So I'm going to tell you what the facts are and the facts are the facts but then we know the truth, that always overcomes facts"   (npr.org) divider line 194
    More: Followup, Weekend Edition Sunday, vaccinations, outbreaks, measles, Children's Hospital of Philadelphia, MMR vaccine, sermons, truth  
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14997 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Sep 2013 at 1:04 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

2013-09-01 10:21:22 AM  
16 votes:
4.bp.blogspot.com
2013-09-01 11:29:44 AM  
14 votes:
So let's get this straight-

Parents refuse vaccinations for their kid, kid doesn't get sick- "See, God protects our children!"

Parents refuse vaccinations for their kid, kid gets sick- "This is Gods will!"

Parents get vaccinations for their kid, kid doesn't get sick- "This is Gods will!"

Parents get vaccinations for their kid, kid gets sick - "It's that evil science!"
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-09-01 11:38:15 AM  
11 votes:

Tigger: Ideas as stupid as these eventually eliminate the individuals who support them. It just takes too farking long.


There is no natural selection anymore.  Stupidity has become survivable because modern society will provide food and medical treatment.
2013-09-01 01:28:15 PM  
9 votes:
For reference, here's how creators of vaccines were viewed around a century ago:

farm6.staticflickr.com

It's one of those "it's so effective, people take for granted that it is what's working" phenomena. Like "there's no lead in my water, I guess we don't need a clean water act."
2013-09-01 11:13:46 AM  
8 votes:
Earlier this week crowds flooded in for regular services. Rose Mwangi had her Bible in hand, and said she's not worried.
 

"Because I know Jesus is a healer, so I know he's covered us with the blood," Mwangi says. "There's no place for fear."

"The concerns we have had are primarily with very young children who have family history of autism and with bundling too many immunizations at one time," she
[the pastor] said.
 

"You don't take the word of the guy that's trying to give the shot about what's good and what isn't," he [pastor's father, noted nutbag Kenneth Copland] said.

And Christians wonder why the rest of us think of them as a bunch of servile f*ckwits.
2013-09-01 03:51:56 PM  
7 votes:

PainfulItching: GrayGush: Coming on a Bicycle: You don't die from Measles. Or well, hardly anyone dies from Measles. I mean, my kids are vaccinated as well, but certain things in modern day medicine are simply luxury, and that's not bad. But at least be so fair as to acknowledge that, and let's not pretend some parents are complicit in causing the Second Plague here.

http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs286/en/
"Measles is a highly contagious, serious disease caused by a virus. In 1980, before widespread vaccination, measles caused an estimated 2.6 million deaths each year. "

Just because we do a decent job of keeping it from being a rampant plague, doesn't mean we should lessen the severity of its prevention.

And the symptoms, like fever - which was a major part of the deaths in the past, can be managed with over the counter meds. Antibiotics take care of any secondary infections. So for most it is survivable, with the assistance of some older "acceptable" medications. It's a matter of degree I guess.


Again, not farking true in the case of most vaccine-preventable diseases, and CERTAINLY not true in the case of measles.

Measles, in case you're not aware (and honestly most people aren't), is basically human rinderpest; cow rinderpest (which is now extinct outside of labs, thanks to a massive livestock immunisation program; the second disease we wiped out after smallpox) crossed over to humans sometime in the late Dark Ages to early Middle Ages, and also crossed over into dogs sometime in the late Middle Ages separately (as canine distemper).

Measles is a morbillivirus, and morbilliviruses tend to kill in four different ways:

a) Attacking the gastrointestinal system (common in ovine rinderpest aka "peste-de-petits-ruminants" and canine distemper as well as in regular rinderpest before we wiped it out)--basically wrecks the intestines and causes gastric bleeds and diarrhea.

b) Causing a general haemorrhagic fever (common in ovine rinderpest and (before we wiped it out) cow rinderpest; a common presentation of measles proper when isolated peoples are exposed to it for the first time (and apparently common when rinderpest crossed over into humans and became measles); common in canine distemper; common in phocine distemper (aka seal distemper); the typical presentation in lions that contract canine distemper).  Even the famous red rash of measles is a mild form of this--it's literally a haemorrhagic rash.

c) A general weakening of the immune system--not quite full-blown haemorrhagic fever but a lesser version of the same thing (happens in measles, EXTREMELY common in canine and phocine distemper, a typical presentation of the newly discovered cetacean morbillivirus (we don't technically know if it should be formally classified as "dolphin rinderpest", "dolphin distemper" or "dolphin measles" as we don't know which morbillivirus it's most closely related to--signs are pointing MAYBE to dolphin distemper, though).)

d) Morbilliviruses can actually cause their own explicit type of encephalitis--yes, the virus tends to DIRECTLY ATTACK THE BRAIN (TWO different encepalitides in humans--subacure sclerosing panencephalitis (uniformly fatal unless caught VERY early and requires lifetime treatment with ribavirin, progressive disease caused by reactivation of measles virus years after infection) and acute measles encephalitis; very common sequelae of canine distemper and ovine rinderpest resulting in permanent brain damage or death (to the point that if a dog with distemper is seizing it's considered to be a sign of a poor prognosis and euthanasia is recommended); a type of subacute sclerosing panencephalitis-like syndrome is known in canine distemper survivors that in its later stages is considered to be an indication for euthanasia; may be part of what's killing dolphins with cetacean morbillivirus/"dolphin distemper"; typical presentation of canine distemper in black-footed ferrets (which were almost wiped out in a distemper zoonotic--zoos have done much work to bring them back, and released ferrets are usually vaccinated for distemper), also happens in lions that contract canine distemper).

To my knowledge, I really don't know of any OTC medications available for disseminated bleeding, wreckage of the gastrointestinal tract (no, Imodium would not fix the malabsorption that occurs nor the ulceration), encephalitis, and wreckage of the immune system :D

/GET.  YOUR.  DAMN.  KIDS.  THE.  JAB.
//have been sick this weekend with a 100 degree fever and HOPING I haven't caught the damn flu before I could get the flu jab
GBB
2013-09-01 03:21:10 PM  
7 votes:
wp.patheos.com.s3.amazonaws.com
2013-09-01 01:30:33 PM  
7 votes:

bigsteve3OOO: If vaccines are effective then a few people not getting them should have zero effect on the rest of the vaccinated population.


Herd immunity works by having everybody who can get vaccinated, well, get vaccinated. By greatly reducing the people who can get sick this protects the people who cannot get vaccinated for legitimate reasons, like being too young or weak immune systems.

When people don't get vaccinated despite not having any medical reason not to do so it not only makes the people who can't get vaccinated more vulnerable but gives the disease a chance to mutate and infect people who are only vaccinated against the original strain.
2013-09-01 03:22:14 PM  
6 votes:

Coming on a Bicycle: You don't die from Measles. Or well, hardly anyone dies from Measles. I mean, my kids are vaccinated as well, but certain things in modern day medicine are simply luxury, and that's not bad. But at least be so fair as to acknowledge that, and let's not pretend some parents are complicit in causing the Second Plague here.


Apparently someone isn't aware of the complications of measles, then (like, oh, fun things like subacute sclerosing panencephalitis and other forms of measles encephalitis)--not only can measles kill, it also can pretty much render you into a rutabaga if one is unlucky, so to speak.

Also, we have a LOT more immunocompromised people (both in numbers and as a percentage of the population) than we had in the days of "pox parties"--not just folks with HIV (and AIDS and ARC--the latter being basically "pre-AIDS") but kids born with immunodeficiencies, people with asthma, people with rheumatoid arthritis and Crohn's disease and psoriasis and multiple sclerosis (which anymore are routinely treated with certain immunosuppressants, now that we realise that these are autoimmune diseases), people who've had organ and tissue transplants (again, immunosuppressants happen), even shiat like type I and type II and OTHER forms of diabetes (some of which are autoimmunity-linked; all diabetes makes you more susceptible to things going bad with getting sick, and there is a theory that in at least SOME types of autoimmune diabetes the downward spiral IS triggered by catching a virus in childhood).

And now you all are going to have the rare pleasure of seeing me go on a DOUBLE rant.  I'm going to TRY to keep this short and sweet:

a) Vaccines do not cause autism.  Your gebroken swimmers and eggs cause autism (probably because they're too old or you have a milder version of the gebrokenness); almost all ASD that does not have some other form of known genetic basis is a neural and cellular migration and differentiation disorder (and it probably affects all cells)--one we can literally detect in the placenta, the VERY FIRST ORGAN that forms in an embryo, which is a major clue-by-four that it's broken genes that are responsible.

(Mind, these prosperity-gospel-peddling chucklefarks probably don't even BELIEVE in gene and germ theory, thinking diseases are caused by demonic oppression or possession...yes, unfortunately, I grew up in a church of folks who would be Fellow Travellers to the Texas megachurch chucklefarks, hence my unfortunate knowledge.  I'm mostly posting this for REASONABLE people.)

b) Prosperity gospel maims, kills, and is probably one of the very few religious movements that I think NEEDS to be given a very hairy eyeball by CPS officials because of the real risk of damage to kids who HAVE NO FARKING SAY.  You know, like those poor kids who are farking sick with the measles thanks to the "name it and claim yer healing!" and "Diseases are really the result of demons that infest you because your distant ancestors read HOROSCOPES!" goddamn bullshiat chucklefarkery.

(Yes, this is a subject that gets me livid to near-Khornate levels.  I've seen where prosperity gospel has killed, firsthand; my smother, who eventually died of a massive heart attack caused by complications of a previous cardiac arrest (which was in turn the result of poorly-controlled diabetes) when she stopped going to cardio rehab thanks to some goddamn name-it-and-claim-it hucksterfark telling her she had a Miraculous Healing Coming.   I lived in effective poverty my entire childhood because said smother would give fully fifty percent of the pre-tax income to the church under the Prosperity Gospel Delusion that somehow the Abrahamic God ran a Ponzi For Christ.  I have PERMANENT, UNCORRECTABLE (nope, not even glasses work) vision impairment in one of my eyes because of the fact aforementioned smother did NOT get the surgery that was recommended (by one of the best pediatric opthamologists in the state) but instead went to numerous "prosperity gospel" services to fill the preacher's coffers and try to pray the eye fixed.)

c) I am actually a bit of an apatheist now, in part because I sincerely do believe that if the Abrahamic Deity actually GAVE a literal goddamn about humanity that "prosperity gospel" hucksters would be among the first against the wall (along with religionationalist terrorists like Al Quaida and the Army of God).  Because Prosperity Gospel Farking Kills.

(And this is not just restricted to the Abrahamics; there are certain groups like Soka Gakkai that I would love to see die in a fire and sent to one of the 108 Hells because they're pretty much the Buddhist version of "name it and claim it" chucklefarkery; hell, one of the Korean "name it and claim" it arsecoonts who pretty much popularised the concept of cell churches (one "David" nee "Paul" Yonggi Cho, may the sanshin have a special hell prepared for him) pretty much ADMITS he cribbed the concept from the Nichiren "prosperity gospel" hucksters..)
2013-09-01 01:39:30 PM  
6 votes:

bigsteve3OOO: If vaccines are effective then a few people not getting them should have zero effect on the rest of the vaccinated population.


In a small, tightly-knit community like this church? The effectiveness of herd immunity in a community of a thousand is far more greatly impacted by a dozen holdouts than in a population of millions. Ever notice that, where there's a cluster of anti-vaxxers, there also tends to be am outbreak of diseases like this? That's what the breakdown of herd immunity looks like.

The vaccine was so effective that we'd completely eradicated measles in the US. Then the farking anti-vaxxer morons came along and ruined it. Good job, idiots.
2013-09-01 01:27:15 PM  
6 votes:

ThePastafarian: Something good happens: "This was the work of God"

Something bad happens: "The Lord works in mysterious ways"


Religion is the pinnacle of circular reasoning.  Since their god is all good, all the good stuff is attributable to him and proof of his goodness.  Since he is all good, all the bad stuff is someone else's fault - usually the victim's, since it's just punishment for their "sins" (i.e., bad decisions and normal imperfection), thus proving their god's goodness.

Seriously, it's the biggest scam in history.  Pretty amazing, actually.
2013-09-01 11:52:13 AM  
6 votes:

vpb: There is no natural selection anymore. Stupidity has become survivable because modern society will provide food and medical treatment.


Which proves that you don't understand natural selection.
2013-09-01 11:37:46 AM  
6 votes:

Tigger: Benevolent Misanthrope: Earlier this week crowds flooded in for regular services. Rose Mwangi had her Bible in hand, and said she's not worried.
 

"Because I know Jesus is a healer, so I know he's covered us with the blood," Mwangi says. "There's no place for fear."

"The concerns we have had are primarily with very young children who have family history of autism and with bundling too many immunizations at one time," she [the pastor] said.
 

"You don't take the word of the guy that's trying to give the shot about what's good and what isn't," he [pastor's father, noted nutbag Kenneth Copland] said.

And Christians wonder why the rest of us think of them as a bunch of servile f*ckwits.

Ideas as stupid as these eventually eliminate the individuals who support them. It just takes too farking long.


And they breed in the meantime. Darwin doesn't always reward the smartest, just the most successful at breeding.
2013-09-01 01:31:03 PM  
5 votes:

Benevolent Misanthrope: ThePastafarian: Something good happens: "This was the work of God"

Something bad happens: "The Lord works in mysterious ways"

Religion is the pinnacle of circular reasoning.  Since their god is all good, all the good stuff is attributable to him and proof of his goodness.  Since he is all good, all the bad stuff is someone else's fault - usually the victim's, since it's just punishment for their "sins" (i.e., bad decisions and normal imperfection), thus proving their god's goodness.

Seriously, it's the biggest scam in history.  Pretty amazing, actually.



I personally believe the staying-power of Christiantity over most other religions is the whole "You can still go to heaven no matter how many people you murder, just as long as you say you believe in Jesus before you die" bullshiat.

That makes the religion very attractive to lazy people who aren't at all concerned about being good people.
2013-09-01 01:16:32 PM  
5 votes:

vpb: There actually is a theory called dysgenics that proposes that people are becoming less healthy because harmful mutations don't die out because of modern medicine.


To say that a mutation is harmful is to make a value judgement, since even some "harmful" mutations impart a benefit. Sickle-cell carriers, for example, are somewhat resistant to malaria.
2013-09-01 02:07:35 PM  
4 votes:
Wait til they get their wave of pertussis and they have babies dying horrific deaths. That'll learn 'em. Or maybe diphtheria. Diphtheria's pretty farking biblical.

If you've got any concerns about vaccines, do a GIS for diphtheria and then re-consider the validity of your concerns. Also be prepared to be haunted by the image of a "pseudomembrane" forever after.
2013-09-01 01:41:23 PM  
4 votes:

bigsteve3OOO: If vaccines are effective then a few people not getting them should have zero effect on the rest of the vaccinated population.


If the anti-vac people were spread evenly throughout the population, it wouldn't be a big deal.  But as shown in the article, when they congregate, they create an incubator population where the disease can thrive and evolve, possibly to the point of becoming resistant to the vaccine.  That puts everyone at risk.
2013-09-01 01:32:25 PM  
4 votes:

MithrandirBooga: bigsteve3OOO: If vaccines are effective then a few people not getting them should have zero effect on the rest of the vaccinated population.WRONG.


No, he's right. It has zero affect on the vaccinated population. You pointed out unvaccinated people, though they are unvaccinated by necessity, not by choice.

That's really the point, these parents don't just endanger their children (which is bad enough) but they also endanger people who cannot, for whatever reason, be vaccinated. Their decision has no bearing on me, a healthy vaccinated person. But I'm not so selfish as to only care about myself.
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-09-01 12:04:17 PM  
4 votes:

Tigger: The rate of human evolution actually appears to be accelerating. Despite the well-argued claims of a cult comedy's opening credits.


No, It's actual biology, despite the fact that some guy used the idea to make a movie.

Besides, it's not too hard to figure out that someone with a fatal genetic flaw who is able to survive and breed because of modern medicine will pass on his genetic condition instead of becoming a genetic dead end.
2013-09-01 12:00:22 PM  
4 votes:
I have no problem at all with this.  Provide that all of them are quarantined in their church, under armed guard, and nobody can leave unless they provide evidence of a vaccination or a positive antibody titer two weeks earlier.  You don't get to fark with herd immunity, morons.
2013-09-01 06:40:56 PM  
3 votes:

TheRameres: FunkOut: Mentat: Coming on a Bicycle: You don't die from Measles. Or well, hardly anyone dies from Measles. I mean, my kids are vaccinated as well, but certain things in modern day medicine are simply luxury, and that's not bad. But at least be so fair as to acknowledge that, and let's not pretend some parents are complicit in causing the Second Plague here.

You know measles isn't the only disease out there, right?  You know people still get bubonic plague, right?

Should we vaccinate for bubonic plague?

Because you don't vaccinate for bacterial infections.


Really?  Somebody tell the CDC.  They're spreading misinformation.

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/hib/

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/pneumo/

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/diphtheria/default.htm

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/pertussis/default.htm

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/mening/default.htm

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/typhoid/default.htm

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/tb/default.htm

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/anthrax/default.htm
2013-09-01 04:07:08 PM  
3 votes:

PainfulItching: mongbiohazard: bigsteve3OOO: Because your science is not 100% effective and in some cases deadly; some people opt out.  You think they are fool.  I think they know statistics.

People who eschew vaccines because of either thoroughly debunked rumors/pseudo-science or because in their arrogant willful ignorance wish to put their deity to a foolish test rather than make use of the medicine and doctors he's provided ARE fools even if you are a believer in the supernatural.

The only thing you're proving in this thread is that you don't understand science, statistics OR theology and shouldn't be careless with the use of the word "fool".

Yeah, Doctor Without Borders is making a mint immunizing people in SIerra Leone.


The disheartening thing is that I am well aware of how sarcastic what you said is, but there are far too many people in America would would think you were being serious - and agree. And they vote. And they get elected to congress. And they get on the House Science Committee.

There's a reason that those people also tend to want to weaken public education, and oppose public higher education. Education tends to be an anathema to their beliefs, and more quality education makes it harder to brainwash successive generations in to perpetuating their willful ignorance. Whether they admit it or not, I think they know this - even if only subconsciously (and often it's not subconscious I think).
2013-09-01 03:19:28 PM  
3 votes:

Noticeably F.A.T.: Coming on a Bicycle: You don't die from Measles. Or well, hardly anyone dies from Measles. I mean, my kids are vaccinated as well, but certain things in modern day medicine are simply luxury, and that's not bad. But at least be so fair as to acknowledge that, and let's not pretend some parents are complicit in causing the Second Plague here.

1) Nobody is pretending that it's the plague.

B) Lethality is not the point at all. The point is, it's a stupidly easy disease to not get. The vaccine is so effective now you basically have a choice of getting measles or not getting measles. They chose... poorly.


Furthermore, it's not just about people dying from Measles -- which of course people aren't dying from. A significant number of the vaccine preventable diseases have medical complications: http://www.cdc.gov/measles/about/complications.html

Risking deafness, possible brain damage, miscarriage or low-weight babies is part of the message as well.
2013-09-01 02:00:34 PM  
3 votes:
Pray to God but row to shore.
2013-09-01 01:58:37 PM  
3 votes:
The thing that gets me is that these people are all too happy to put their trust in the "science" that vaccines cause autism, while ignoring the actual science that says otherwise. Just like with the Bible, they pick and choose only the parts they like.
2013-09-01 01:50:38 PM  
3 votes:

F42: vpb: There actually is a theory called dysgenics Naziism that proposes that people are becoming less healthy because harmful mutations don't die out because of modern medicine.

The phrase "life unworthy of life" (in "Lebensunwertes Leben") was a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthanized" title="Euthanized" class="mw-redirect">euthanized". The term included people with serious medical problems and those considered grossly inferior according to the [1] The euthanasia program was known as


In the long run, I believe the worst thing the Nazis did may have been to destroy the nascent eugenics movement.

Divorced from ideas of racial superiority, eugenics makes sense. But suggest anything having to do with improving the genetic fitness of our species, even based on purely objective criteria like stamina or immune function, and everyone screams "OMG HITLER!!1!1!"
2013-09-01 01:48:44 PM  
3 votes:

Mentat: Coming on a Bicycle: You don't die from Measles. Or well, hardly anyone dies from Measles. I mean, my kids are vaccinated as well, but certain things in modern day medicine are simply luxury, and that's not bad. But at least be so fair as to acknowledge that, and let's not pretend some parents are complicit in causing the Second Plague here.

You know measles isn't the only disease out there, right?  You know people still get bubonic plague, right?


And let's not forget that measles may be an uncomfortable but ultimately non-serious disease for most children, if you contract it as an adult you run a MUCH higher risk of serious, permanent damage, like blindness and sterility.
2013-09-01 01:47:23 PM  
3 votes:

vpb: There actually is a theory called dysgenics that proposes that people are becoming less healthy because harmful mutations don't die out because of modern medicine.


If a species can adopt behaviors that mitigates a mutation's effects, then as far as natural selection is concerned, it isn't harmful.
2013-09-01 01:40:58 PM  
3 votes:
On the bright side, this would be a great reality show:  "Tard Circus," where several believers test their faith by swimming in infected blood, eating various contaminated bread, and seeing if they can take a bullet to the face to see how much they love God.  And if they catch something/die, then it's their fault and it's some sin that the announcer, safe in a plastic bubble, can make up on the spot.

It's much better than electing these sad idiots to any positions of power, really.
2013-09-01 01:32:15 PM  
3 votes:
ThePastafarian:
Something good happens: "This was the work of God"

Something bad happens: "The Lord works in mysterious ways"


this is why I completely lost my faith, after seeing a family member battle ovarian cancer for 4 years. no one should have to go through that level of suffering, regardless of the final outcome.
2013-09-01 01:27:38 PM  
3 votes:

ThePastafarian: Dinki: So let's get this straight-

Parents refuse vaccinations for their kid, kid doesn't get sick- "See, God protects our children!"

Parents refuse vaccinations for their kid, kid gets sick- "This is Gods will!"

Parents get vaccinations for their kid, kid doesn't get sick- "This is Gods will!"

Parents get vaccinations for their kid, kid gets sick - "It's that evil science!"

Something good happens: "This was the work of God"

Something bad happens: "The Lord works in mysterious ways"


Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.

Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.

Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?

Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?
2013-09-01 01:26:18 PM  
3 votes:

bigsteve3OOO: If vaccines are effective then a few people not getting them should have zero effect on the rest of the vaccinated population.


WRONG.

FTFA:

"Typically, it's the fear that the combination measles-mumps-rubella, or MMR vaccine may have in some way contributed to the epidemic of autism - which has clearly been shown not to be true in study after study," Offit says. He says those who chose to skip vaccines cause serious ripple effects.

There are hundreds of thousands of people in the United States who can't get vaccinated because they're undergoing medical treatment or are too young, for example.

2013-09-01 01:25:24 PM  
3 votes:
but Pearsons released a statement after the outbreak saying she isn't anti-vaccine. But Pearsons added that she still has some reservations about vaccines. "The concerns we have had are primarily with very young children who have family history of autism and with bundling too many immunizations at one time," she said.

 . . . . citing the research of world famous immunologist, Dr Jenny McCarthy.
2013-09-01 01:24:31 PM  
3 votes:

jayhawk88: "Because I know Jesus is a healer, so I know he's covered us with the blood," Mwangi says. "There's no place for fear."

And if she were to contract measles, that would just be God testing her faith and giving her an opportunity to get closer to Him.


Read the Book of Job sometime.  Her god is a real prick that way.
2013-09-01 01:15:35 PM  
3 votes:

gilgigamesh: "So I'm going to tell you what the facts are, and the facts are the facts, but then we know the truth. That always overcomes facts," she has said.

I love, love, love that that is an actual quote.

You just can't write self-parody that unconsciously witty, You just can't.


Landover Baptist has been overtaken by a reality more parodic than they could ever been.

Also, I have to say that more dead and crippled fundies is an answered prayer...if you assume prayers are answered. Get on the escalator to Jeebus, godbots...he's "waiting".
2013-09-01 01:01:15 PM  
3 votes:
"So I'm going to tell you what the facts are, and the facts are the facts, but then we know the truth. That always overcomes facts," she has said.

I love, love, love that that is an actual quote.

You just can't write self-parody that unconsciously witty, You just can't.
2013-09-01 12:54:52 PM  
3 votes:

Lionel Mandrake: Benevolent Misanthrope: "You don't take the word of the guy that's trying to give the shot about what's good and what isn't," he [pastor's father, noted nutbag Kenneth Copland] said.

You'd think a prosperity theologian would want his suckers - er, congregants - to stay healthy.  It's hard to convince corpses that Jesus loves rich people most of all, and that the first step to becoming rich is robust tithing.

Of course, if you can get them to include the Church in their wills...ka-ching!!  I mean, hallelujah!!


You just hit the nail on the head.  My maternal grandparents were manipulated by an unscrupulous pastor into that very thing.  It's pro forma in many churches (every one I've ever seen, actually) to play upon people's fear of death, remind them of their sins, and convince them that their god will be pleased with them in the afterlife if they prove their love for him in the here and now by signing their estate over to the church.

Buncha farking parasites.
2013-09-01 12:44:07 PM  
3 votes:

vpb: Tigger: The rate of human evolution actually appears to be accelerating. Despite the well-argued claims of a cult comedy's opening credits.

No, It's actual biology, despite the fact that some guy used the idea to make a movie.

Besides, it's not too hard to figure out that someone with a fatal genetic flaw who is able to survive and breed because of modern medicine will pass on his genetic condition instead of becoming a genetic dead end.


You're arguing two completely separate things.  The rate of evolution in the human population has increased, but technology and civilization has also changed the evolutionary parameters under which selection and genetic drift operate.  Natural selection is most definitely still occurring and would actually be predicted to get stronger as the various world populations increasingly intermingle.
2013-09-01 12:30:22 PM  
3 votes:

Dinki: So let's get this straight-

Parents refuse vaccinations for their kid, kid doesn't get sick- "See, God protects our children!"

Parents refuse vaccinations for their kid, kid gets sick- "This is Gods will!"

Parents get vaccinations for their kid, kid doesn't get sick- "This is Gods will!"

Parents get vaccinations for their kid, kid gets sick - "It's that evil science!"


Don't forget parents refuse vaccinations for their kid, kid gets sick, infects someone allergic to the vaccination- "oops".

I don't want to find out the hard way that I am not immune to measles because some dickhead chose not to vaccinate their kids. The odds of a serious allergic reaction are so small there is no reason not to inoculate your kids.
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-09-01 11:58:50 AM  
3 votes:
There actually is a theory called dysgenics that proposes that people are becoming less healthy because harmful mutations don't die out because of modern medicine.
gja
2013-09-01 06:53:49 PM  
2 votes:

Xcott: mongbiohazard: Evolution does not mean that a population of organisms "get more intelligent" - it just means that they change. That change could also possibly take the form of them getting more stupid.

Yes, but evolution driven by natural selection tends to make organisms more fit to compete for mates, rather than just changing in an unhelpful direction.

The Idiocracy hypothesis is based on two bogus premises.  The first is that intelligence is inherited, which is only partially true.  The second is that dumber people reproduce more than smarter people.  In reality, intelligence is a significant advantage to reproduction.

People only think the opposite is true lower socioeconomic classes have higher rates of reproduction, and people in the higher classes confuse class with intelligence.


I can verify undeniably that having money does NOT equate to those who possess it having class. Sadly, some of the most well-heeled people I know are some of the most disgusting people I have had the displeasure of having to deal with. Additionally, some of them make me wonder how the hell they are able to clothe themselves sans assistance. Some are blathering idiots. Others make me fearful in that they are driving cars about, as they routinely wreck them in glorious fashion.

On the other hand, I recently went to Indiana. When I travel I tend to 'go native' and eat/spend at local places rather than chains who couldn't care less about my patronage of their establishments. I did so on this trip and ate at a place where it was evident the place was staffed by almost all family and friends. What ensued was a dinner with folks who surely made very little for a living but were as gracious as could possibly be. The owner, a Guyanese gent who emigrated here in '82,  had some of the most educated views on macro-economics I have ever heard outside a lecture hall at university. The common folk are the best.

Evolution needs to hurry the hell up. The dumbness just ain't dieing off fast enough.
2013-09-01 06:34:20 PM  
2 votes:

DoctorWhat: I'm sad that no one has photoshopped the picture in TFA to say "Measle Mountain Church".


Meh, don't have to.  The eagle on the right of the banner is flipping the bird to science, modern medicine, and all other libtardo wordly things of that ilk.

media.npr.org
2013-09-01 05:57:03 PM  
2 votes:
Kenneth Copeland Word of Faith churches are some of the worst Prosperity Theology shillers you'll encounter.  The Waterford, CT IFWC is a known group of local criminals.
2013-09-01 05:06:15 PM  
2 votes:

Guest: bingo the psych-o: Dear Christians:

Immunization prevents more diseases than prayer ever will.  Insulin treats more diabetes than prayer ever will.  Chemotherapy has cured more cancers than prayer ever will.

Please, please, please educate yourselves for the sake of your own children.

Dear Christians:

God gave humans developedthe intelligence to discover immunizations.   God gave humans hadthe intelligence to discover insulin and God gave humans also hadthe intelligence to discover Chemotherapy.   Please start using them your intelligence as you are making God us reasonable and logical folks very sad that you are ignoranting all the good he has placed in your hands.


FTFY
2013-09-01 04:32:52 PM  
2 votes:
"Because I know Jesus is a healer, so I know he's covered us with the blood," Mwangi says. "There's no place for fear."

Well, there's your problem!  Blood is a well-known vector for infectious disease.  Letting yourself get covered with the stuff is a sure-fire way to get sick.  This Jesus guy, he didn't go to med school, did he?
2013-09-01 04:21:32 PM  
2 votes:

J. Frank Parnell: Promised myself i wouldn't post in another pro-vaccination troll thread.

/dammit


Well, yeah, now that you're here it IS a troll thread, Derptaculus.
2013-09-01 04:16:50 PM  
2 votes:
The truth and a few facts.

A rubella (measles) infection can cause miscarriage, preterm birth, or stillbirth, as well as a variety of birth defects, but it depends on how far along you are when you contract the virus. The risks are highest during the early stages of a baby's development and they go down as pregnancy progresses.
If you get rubella during the first 12 weeks of pregnancy, there's a high chance (up to 85 percent) that your baby will develop CRS (Congenital Rubella Syndrome). The rate of CRS for a baby whose mother is infected between 13 and 16 weeks is about 54 percent, and the rate continues to go down sharply from there. After 20 weeks there's very little risk that the infection will cause a birth defect.
There's a wide range of very serious problems associated with CRS, most commonly deafness, eye defects (which may lead to blindness), heart malformations, and neurologic problems, such as mental retardation. Other defects may also be evident at birth, or problems may surface later in infancy and childhood.

Early in my professional training (1970's), I spent a couple of months in a care unit for children with CRS.  It was horrible, a living nightmare.  Just wait until some of these unvaccinated women start hitting reproductive age and then contracting rubella early in their pregnancies.  I suppose there will again be care units for children with CRS because their stupid mothers weren't vaccinated.
2013-09-01 04:05:56 PM  
2 votes:

bigsteve3OOO: Raw_fishFood: bigsteve3OOO: If vaccines are effective then a few people not getting them should have zero effect on the rest of the vaccinated population.

Herd immunity works by having everybody who can get vaccinated, well, get vaccinated. By greatly reducing the people who can get sick this protects the people who cannot get vaccinated for legitimate reasons, like being too young or weak immune systems.

When people don't get vaccinated despite not having any medical reason not to do so it not only makes the people who can't get vaccinated more vulnerable but gives the disease a chance to mutate and infect people who are only vaccinated against the original strain.

Seems like praying to your god of science has not helped you.  Perhaps a different god would.



The god of Eagle Mountain Church sure didn't.
2013-09-01 03:34:59 PM  
2 votes:

bigsteve3OOO: Because your science is not 100% effective and in some cases deadly; some people opt out.  You think they are fool.  I think they know statistics.


Wow, and do they. They know exactly what their outcome will be beforehand.

Or, they don't really understand statistics.
2013-09-01 02:45:15 PM  
2 votes:

Apos: Are Jenny McCarthy and Rob Schneider among their faithful congregation?


Holy crap, who in their right mind would give Schneider any credibility on medical issues?  It's unbelievable.
2013-09-01 02:32:27 PM  
2 votes:

Dinki: So let's get this straight-

Parents get vaccinations for their kid, kid doesn't get sick- "This is Gods will!"


Reminds me of this story:

This is a story of a man, who was a firm believer of God.

One day it began to rain very heavily. It kept raining and a big flood came.

The man climbed up on the roof of his house, and knew that he would be ok. God would protect him.

It kept raining and now the water had reached his waist. A boat came by and a guy in the boat said: "Hey, jump in. We will take you with us".

"No thanks", said the man. "I'm a firm believer in God. He will rescue me". He sent the boat away.

It kept on raining and now the water had reached his neck. Another boat came by and a guy in the boat said: "You look like you could need some help. Jump in and we will take you with us".

"No", said the man. "I'm a firm believer in God. He will rescue me. Don't worry about me". The boat sailed away.

It still rained and the water now reached his mouth. A helicopter came by and a guy in the helicopter threw down a rope and said: "Hi there my friend. Climb up. We will rescue you".

"No", said the man. "I'm a firm believer in God. He will rescue me. I know he will". The helicopter flew away.

It kept on raining, and finally the man drowned.

When the man died, he went to heaven. When entering Heaven, he had an interview with God.
After giving a polite greeting and sitting down, the man asked: "Where were you. I waited and waited. I was sure you would rescue me, as I have been a firm believer all my life, and have only done good to others. So where were you when I needed you?"

God scratched His confused looking face and answered: "I don't get it either. I sent you two boats and a helicopter".


/"I sent vaccines and medicines and doctors. Why did you refuse them?"
2013-09-01 02:30:46 PM  
2 votes:

Raw_fishFood: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: When a liberal celebrity does it: "Ooh lets examine the science, it's good to question big Pharma!"

When a pastor does it: "Haha, dumb hillbillies, they dont bieve in science and modern medicine, what a bunch of rubes!"

Pretty sure in both cases the anti-vaccination person is usually labeled a "Dumb motherfarker."


Yeah, I don't see hordes of liberals rushing to support Jenny McCarthy.  The anti-vax crowd is laughed at pretty universally, doesn't matter if it's got its roots in religion or new age foofery.
2013-09-01 02:27:26 PM  
2 votes:

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: I'm being persecuted? In what way?


Some people indulge others in this "explain my own post back to me" game.  I don't.
2013-09-01 02:03:24 PM  
2 votes:

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: When a liberal celebrity does it: "Ooh lets examine the science, it's good to question big Pharma!"


Who is embracing this argument?  I've never seen anyone defend an anti-vaxxer celebrity other than another anti-vaxxer.  You're just making stuff up so you can complain about being persecuted.
2013-09-01 02:01:21 PM  
2 votes:

cameroncrazy1984: Mister Peejay: 150-200 years ago, I probably wouldn't have lived past childhood, or if I did, I would have been labeled a moron or something because I can't see six inches in front of my face.

/happy little cyborg

You do realize that 150-200 years ago, glasses did exist, right? They aren't necessarily a modern invention.


You do realize that, 150-200 years ago, the vast number of people who'd need glasses could never afford them.
2013-09-01 01:46:59 PM  
2 votes:

nmrsnr: MithrandirBooga: bigsteve3OOO: If vaccines are effective then a few people not getting them should have zero effect on the rest of the vaccinated population.WRONG.

No, he's right. It has zero affect on the vaccinated population. You pointed out unvaccinated people, though they are unvaccinated by necessity, not by choice.

That's really the point, these parents don't just endanger their children (which is bad enough) but they also endanger people who cannot, for whatever reason, be vaccinated. Their decision has no bearing on me, a healthy vaccinated person. But I'm not so selfish as to only care about myself.


He's not though. Vaccines are not 100% effective. There are people who have been vaccinated but still find themselves susceptible to the disease. They're a minority, but one should never be under the assumption that you cannot get a disease because you've been vaccinated.

There's a reason you need to be revaccinated for many diseases.
2013-09-01 01:45:22 PM  
2 votes:

bigsteve3OOO: Raw_fishFood: bigsteve3OOO: If vaccines are effective then a few people not getting them should have zero effect on the rest of the vaccinated population.

Herd immunity works by having everybody who can get vaccinated, well, get vaccinated. By greatly reducing the people who can get sick this protects the people who cannot get vaccinated for legitimate reasons, like being too young or weak immune systems.

When people don't get vaccinated despite not having any medical reason not to do so it not only makes the people who can't get vaccinated more vulnerable but gives the disease a chance to mutate and infect people who are only vaccinated against the original strain.

Seems like praying to your god of science has not helped you.  Perhaps a different god would.


How did you get that from what he wrote? My god that's retarded.
F42
2013-09-01 01:44:42 PM  
2 votes:

vpb: Besides, it's not too hard to figure out that someone with a fatal genetic flaw who is able to survive and breed because of modern medicine


...does not, therefore, have a fatal flaw. By definition.
2013-09-01 01:37:08 PM  
2 votes:

dumbobruni: ThePastafarian:
Something good happens: "This was the work of God"

Something bad happens: "The Lord works in mysterious ways"

this is why I completely lost my faith, after seeing a family member battle ovarian cancer for 4 years. no one should have to go through that level of suffering, regardless of the final outcome.


Sorry it took that. But welcome to reality.
2013-09-01 01:33:29 PM  
2 votes:
It's almost like Someone is trying to tell them something.

And that something is likely "modern medicine".
2013-09-01 01:33:20 PM  
2 votes:
It's a church in Texas.  Someone call Janet Reno. She'll fix it.
2013-09-01 01:31:55 PM  
2 votes:

Coming on a Bicycle: You don't die from Measles. Or well, hardly anyone dies from Measles. I mean, my kids are vaccinated as well, but certain things in modern day medicine are simply luxury, and that's not bad. But at least be so fair as to acknowledge that, and let's not pretend some parents are complicit in causing the Second Plague here.


You know measles isn't the only disease out there, right?  You know people still get bubonic plague, right?
2013-09-01 01:29:50 PM  
2 votes:

bigsteve3OOO: If vaccines are effective then a few people not getting them should have zero effect on the rest of the vaccinated population.


If god is effective then a few people not believing in god should have zero effect...
2013-09-01 01:23:10 PM  
2 votes:

Dinki: So let's get this straight-

Parents refuse vaccinations for their kid, kid doesn't get sick- "See, God protects our children!"

Parents refuse vaccinations for their kid, kid gets sick- "This is Gods will!"

Parents get vaccinations for their kid, kid doesn't get sick- "This is Gods will!"

Parents get vaccinations for their kid, kid gets sick - "It's that evil science!"


Something good happens: "This was the work of God"

Something bad happens: "The Lord works in mysterious ways"
2013-09-01 01:22:21 PM  
2 votes:

jayhawk88: "Because I know Jesus is a healer, so I know he's covered us with the blood," Mwangi says. "There's no place for fear."

And if she were to contract measles, that would just be God testing her faith and giving her an opportunity to get closer to Him.


How did our species get to the point it has with all these fatalist farks around?
2013-09-01 01:18:28 PM  
2 votes:
Can we try this?  Send a guy in a hazmat suit to the church and give away t-shirts covered in small pox that reads "Jesus saves!"..

If it doesn't wipe out the church, then the t-shirts are right.  If it does, I guess God was angry with them for some reason.  Possibly because of the gays.
2013-09-01 01:09:32 PM  
2 votes:
Quarantine them and let it burn itself out.
2013-09-01 01:07:38 PM  
2 votes:
farm3.staticflickr.com
2013-09-01 12:26:06 PM  
2 votes:

Benevolent Misanthrope: Earlier this week crowds flooded in for regular services. Rose Mwangi had her Bible in hand, and said she's not worried.
 

"Because I know Jesus is a healer, so I know he's covered us with the blood," Mwangi says. "There's no place for fear."

"The concerns we have had are primarily with very young children who have family history of autism and with bundling too many immunizations at one time," she [the pastor] said.
 

"You don't take the word of the guy that's trying to give the shot about what's good and what isn't," he [pastor's father, noted nutbag Kenneth Copland] said.

And Christians wonder why the rest of us think of them as a bunch of servile f*ckwits.


Funny how the take the word of the Pastor, though.
2013-09-01 11:43:20 AM  
2 votes:

Peki: Darwin doesn't always reward the smartest, just the most successful at breeding.


This.  Just ask Clevon

api.ning.com
jbc [TotalFark]
2013-09-01 11:28:47 AM  
2 votes:
Congrats to Copeland for being both a religious quack and a medical quack. Dipshart.
2013-09-01 11:27:24 AM  
2 votes:
Wasn't St. Luke a doctor?
2013-09-01 11:27:14 AM  
2 votes:

Benevolent Misanthrope: Earlier this week crowds flooded in for regular services. Rose Mwangi had her Bible in hand, and said she's not worried.
 

"Because I know Jesus is a healer, so I know he's covered us with the blood," Mwangi says. "There's no place for fear."

"The concerns we have had are primarily with very young children who have family history of autism and with bundling too many immunizations at one time," she [the pastor] said.
 

"You don't take the word of the guy that's trying to give the shot about what's good and what isn't," he [pastor's father, noted nutbag Kenneth Copland] said.

And Christians wonder why the rest of us think of them as a bunch of servile f*ckwits.


Ideas as stupid as these eventually eliminate the individuals who support them. It just takes too farking long.
2013-09-02 09:45:37 AM  
1 votes:

mofa: Why don't they think the vaccines are the result of their god's good works? Do they eschew the transistor and the electric light as well? If any technology worked against the wishes of the OT god, I think it would be the electric light. And don't get me started on "daylight savings," aka Satan's Wristwatch.


Satan designed the Easy Cut Dispenser for Glad.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glad_%28company%29
2013-09-02 09:01:26 AM  
1 votes:

Ruiizu: does that imply the vaccination is not 100%


Vaccines are not 100% for various reasons.

This is where herd immunity would have protected those still vulnerable ... but incredibly stupid people decided to put their children and other vulnerable people at risk.
2013-09-02 04:11:01 AM  
1 votes:

Mentat: psychosis_inducing: It really is a shame people have forgotten how awful a lot of these diseases are. It makes me think of this girl who was talking about how her housing application was delayed because she didn't have a meningitis shot. She said "I don't even know what meningitis is, but it must be terrible because they made such a big deal about getting vaccinated." She did reach the conclusion that it would be wise to get the shot, so her biggest problem was just getting the documentation through all the university offices.

I think that's key.  My parents lived through the last gasp of polio, so there was never any question we would get vaccinated.  We have a couple of generations now that have never known polio or small pox or measles.  The idea of an epidemic that could kill millions has been relegated to the realm of science fiction, despite the fact that the Spanish Flu did exactly that just a hundred years ago.  It's the curse of success, I guess.


Even today, people think of measles as something that IF kids get it "Oh, doctors can treat that pretty easily"...which they can, up to a certain point. If few enough kids are sick, and the cases aren't too severe. Same with whooping cough. "Oh, kids don't die of whooping cough!" until the last year or two, when they did. Seems like unless it's really weird and exotic--OMG! West Nile! SARS!--people don't pay attention, nevermind the fact that those haven't yet killed large numbers of people. Or something gruesome and hard to catch--OMG! Flesh-eating bacteria!! But like I said, that could change in a couple of generations, we could be back to endemic measles and mumps and epidemic polio if we're not careful.
2013-09-02 03:04:49 AM  
1 votes:

psychosis_inducing: It really is a shame people have forgotten how awful a lot of these diseases are. It makes me think of this girl who was talking about how her housing application was delayed because she didn't have a meningitis shot. She said "I don't even know what meningitis is, but it must be terrible because they made such a big deal about getting vaccinated." She did reach the conclusion that it would be wise to get the shot, so her biggest problem was just getting the documentation through all the university offices.


I think that's key.  My parents lived through the last gasp of polio, so there was never any question we would get vaccinated.  We have a couple of generations now that have never known polio or small pox or measles.  The idea of an epidemic that could kill millions has been relegated to the realm of science fiction, despite the fact that the Spanish Flu did exactly that just a hundred years ago.  It's the curse of success, I guess.
2013-09-02 01:16:41 AM  
1 votes:

nmrsnr: For reference, here's how creators of vaccines were viewed around a century ago:

[farm6.staticflickr.com image 378x560]

It's one of those "it's so effective, people take for granted that it is what's working" phenomena. Like "there's no lead in my water, I guess we don't need a clean water act."


Well, it's one of the problems, if you can get past the "Har har lookit them dum religulous folkses" that seems to go on when this topic comes up. There are plenty of quite smart, non-god-bothering people who really don't understand the need for everyone to keep getting vaccinated against diseases that haven't been seen--as even TFA acknowledges--in America in decades. And after all, nobody gets vaccinated for smallpox any more, right? (Except, unnervingly, soldiers)

So a small part of the issue is that quite honestly, nobody now remembers when kids routinely died of measles or mumps; or when families held their breaths all summer long hoping their kids' runny noses were only colds, and not the onset of polio. And without that immediacy, it becomes much easier to fall for the antivaxxer's message, since one has no personal memory of a sibling dead of measles or a cousin confined to an iron lung.

That could change in another generation.
2013-09-02 12:52:33 AM  
1 votes:

Tigger: Benevolent Misanthrope: Earlier this week crowds flooded in for regular services. Rose Mwangi had her Bible in hand, and said she's not worried.
 

"Because I know Jesus is a healer, so I know he's covered us with the blood," Mwangi says. "There's no place for fear."

"The concerns we have had are primarily with very young children who have family history of autism and with bundling too many immunizations at one time," she [the pastor] said.
 

"You don't take the word of the guy that's trying to give the shot about what's good and what isn't," he [pastor's father, noted nutbag Kenneth Copland] said.

And Christians wonder why the rest of us think of them as a bunch of servile f*ckwits.

Ideas as stupid as these eventually eliminate the individuals who support them. It just takes too farking long.


They also take far too many others with them. All it takes is 'herd immunity' to be broken and we're screwed. These (and other anti-vaxxer) nutters are going to be the cause of the next pandemic I'm guessing.
2013-09-01 11:57:32 PM  
1 votes:

Kali-Yuga: gja: Not all of us who identify as Christian are so universally idiotic.

Like all other mental illnesses and defects, religious belief has a spectrum of severity. You might think you lie on the lower end of the spectrum, like a highly functioning autistic or addict, but you still suffer from the same delusion and irrational beliefs as the full blown fundamentalists.

In fact, I think it's very telling that the fundamentalists are proof for religious faith being a bad thing. if your religion has a problem with its fundamentalists, more than likely it's an issue with the fundamental beliefs and way of thinking your religion promotes.



You foolishly have bought into the myth that being a "fundamentalist" has anything to do with the "fundamentals" of a religion.  It's understandable; the name was chosen to convey that misleading impression.   But, while exactly what the "fundamentals" of Christianity are is a somewhat slippery and subjective question, almost any attempt to define them, even by fundamentalists themselves, will demonstrate ways in which American fundamentalist Christianty departs markedly from these fundamentals.

I'm less certain about fundamentalist varieties of other faiths, but at the least I would urging taking with a grain of salt any claim that "being a fundamentalist X" really has anything to do with the defining characteristics or fundamentals of "X."
2013-09-01 11:45:47 PM  
1 votes:

Medusa's Daughter: Moral: Trust in God, but use common sense, logic and reason.


You were so close.
2013-09-01 11:26:16 PM  
1 votes:

Lachwen: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: My post didn't insinuate that I was being persecuted at all. I pointed out how people treat two groups with the same opinion differently, and you apparently assumed I belonged to one of those groups. Most likely becaus you aren't very bright.

Except that it doesn't matter who's bringing the idiotic anti-vaxxer idea forward; whether they're a super-fundamentalist preacher or a super left-wing Hollywood celebrity, if they espouse anti-vax propaganda the only people who take them seriously are those who are already anti-vaxxers.  I see just as much scorn heaped upon Jenny Farking McCarthy as I see directed at this pastor.


Keep in mind you're talking to a Holocaust Denier who has been known to make up lies on other topics as well (even before this thread).  Don't expect much.
2013-09-01 11:05:45 PM  
1 votes:
Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: My post didn't insinuate that I was being persecuted at all. I pointed out how people treat two groups with the same opinion differently, and you apparently assumed I belonged to one of those groups.

That's true, if by "pointed out " you mean "made up a bald-faced, transparent lie."
2013-09-01 10:56:15 PM  
1 votes:

Fuggin Bizzy: The best remedy for a weasles outbreak is lots of .22s and poison.


No, no, boots.   Put down your gun, it's Weasel Stomping Day.
2013-09-01 10:19:53 PM  
1 votes:
Someday, my grandkids will be amazed that people like this were not institutionalized. Or fixed by nanobots or whatever.
2013-09-01 09:53:58 PM  
1 votes:
I had the measles vaccine as a baby. I got the measles in 4th grade.  I got mumps in 5th grade.  I had scarlet fever in 6th grade.  I have the immune system of a carrot.  I catch everything.  If I were to have children, they would all be vaccinated against everything.  I am thankful I had the polio vaccine or I probably would have caught that when I was in Kenya.  Caught enough stuff there for the airline to want to make a detour to Greenland to get me to a hospital.

Don't lump all Christians with these douchebags.  This Sunday our pastor reminded people to get their kids vaccinated.

It is like this story:

A man was in a flood and had climbed onto his roof for safety.  A man in a boat came along and offered him a ride to safety.  The man said No, God will save me.  Awhile longer a larger boat came and the people offered to take him to safety.  No, he said, God will rescue me.  Awhile longer a helicopter came overhead, as the water were rising.  Let us help you.  They called.  No, the man said, God will save me.
The man drowned in the waters.
In heaven he asked God why he didn't save him.
God looked at the man and sighed, I sent two boats and a helicopter, what more do you want.

Moral: Trust in God, but use common sense.
2013-09-01 09:35:08 PM  
1 votes:

Fuggin Bizzy: "You don't take the word of the guy that's trying to give the shot about what's good and what isn't," he said.

The, uh, doctor? (I know doctors normally don't actually give shots...shut up.) I guess he is one of the smart people, which would put him on the "other" side, according to Rick "Foamy" Santorum. You don't want to just take the word of a guy on the other side. Our ignorance is at least as good as his knowledge.

MY EYES ARE WIDE OPEN...SHEEPLE. Yours should be too.


imgs.xkcd.com
Big mistake.
2013-09-01 09:22:01 PM  
1 votes:
Sure, you can raise your kids how you want, but when it seriously harms them, then you should be charged with child abuse and be forced to take responsibility for your irresponsible behavior.
2013-09-01 09:21:04 PM  
1 votes:

SuperNinjaToad: Benevolent Misanthrope: Earlier this week crowds flooded in for regular services. Rose Mwangi had her Bible in hand, and said she's not worried.
 

"Because I know Jesus is a healer, so I know he's covered us with the blood," Mwangi says. "There's no place for fear."

"The concerns we have had are primarily with very young children who have family history of autism and with bundling too many immunizations at one time," she [the pastor] said.
 

"You don't take the word of the guy that's trying to give the shot about what's good and what isn't," he [pastor's father, noted nutbag Kenneth Copland] said.

And Christians wonder why the rest of us think of them as a bunch of servile f*ckwits.

paint with a broad strokes much? there are literally tens of millions of Christians in the US but yeah one fringe group in Texas represents all of them.


A group with millions of members and a ministry that spans 190 countries, does not make a fringe group. He also has massive ties to other groups, Oral Roberts university, and massive control over a number of politicians.

Saying they are a fringe group is a bit understating one of the most powerful evangelical groups in the US and the damage they have caused.
2013-09-01 09:18:00 PM  
1 votes:

gja: You assume, and like to generalize in the extreme. So your dismissive attitude shows your lack of cognitive ability where something does not fit neatly into your preconceived hole and molds.
I have had this discussion in numerous other threads. One can be a Christian person without wholesale and blind belief in the 'organized' religion of it.

Don't assume that I will just leave you be on this. You have asserted I have a mental illness. That is both asinine and offensive on many levels.


No one said anything about the "organized religion" being the reason for calling religious people delusional. While "mental illness" MAY  be a bit strong religious people are DEFINITLY delusional. If you claim to be a christian, and you did, you must hold beliefs that contradict reality and you draw those beliefs from a single self contradictory book. Reading the book should be enough to show you that anyone who calls themselves "christian" is at least mildly delusional. And yes I would say the same thing about ALL religions.
drp
2013-09-01 09:09:32 PM  
1 votes:

jayphat: I'd like to point out the Anthrax vaccine is not nearly as effective as you would believe. If memory serves correct from when both my brothers got vaccinated in the Army, you still have a 6 in 7 chance of getting Anthrax.


That's not quite right.

The anthrax vaccine is very effective against what it was developed to do:  protect veterinarians and livestock workers from cutaneous infections caused by exposure to spores in soil.

There is some question as to whether it is effective for the DOD's purpose - to protect people from inhalational infections caused by airborne exposure to weaponized strains.  Obviously this is something that is more or less impossible to test or collect data on, particularly human data.

That "6 in 7" failure rate is about 99% likely to be a fabricated statistic.

Around 2004 when the military's anthrax vaccination program was tied up in the courts, servicemembers had the option of refusing the anthrax vaccine.  (That's something pretty extraordinary for the military.)  At the time, I chose not to get the vaccine, prior to deploying to the middle east.

For you antivax retards, this is what a rational decision to decline a vaccine looks like.  Refusing vaccines because some religious leader said so, or because b-b-b-b-b-but pharmaceutical companies just marks you a fool.  Unwind the tinfoil.  Pediatricians aren't getting pharma kickbacks.  Hell, drug reps don't even bring sandwiches to the hospital any more.
2013-09-01 09:03:19 PM  
1 votes:

Tigger: Ideas as stupid as these eventually eliminate the individuals who support them. It just takes too farking long.


Sadly, I have a father inlaw who believes in all this BS and has a son with serious medical issues, and the father believes that Jesus or God or whatever will fix whatever problems his son has and he hasn't brought him to a doctor yet.  It's pathetic and the biggest reason why I will never talk to him until he's on his deathbed.  Idiot's like these also impact the people around them too, if it was just him, I could care less.

/I will be dancing on his grave and he knows it.
2013-09-01 08:54:03 PM  
1 votes:
Great Porn Dragon: I am actually a bit of an apatheist now, in part because I sincerely do believe that if the Abrahamic Deity actually GAVE a literal goddamn about humanity that "prosperity gospel" hucksters would be among the first against the wall (along with religionationalist terrorists like Al Quaida and the Army of God).  Because Prosperity Gospel Farking Kills.

I used to be a regular attendee at the local Apatheist church, but one day I stopped going because I realized I just didn't care anymore.
2013-09-01 08:23:54 PM  
1 votes:

milkyshirt: fark you, you stupid, mouth breathing, moronic, yearning-for-the-dark-ages dipshiat. Seriously. I hope you die from a horrific disease.

Now that I've let off some steam, I'd like to note that I first read Dr. Jason Terk's name as Dr. Jason Twerk. *shakes fist at media*


In this case it's definitely NOT "Nobody's business but the TERK'S"

I wonder if he would have hired Mary Mallion as a cook?

http://history1900s.about.com/od/1900s/a/typhoidmary.htm
2013-09-01 08:16:28 PM  
1 votes:
Isn't intentionally giving false medical information with the intent to harm them or someone they know via the false information given a crime?
2013-09-01 08:02:31 PM  
1 votes:

Coming on a Bicycle: You don't die from Measles. Or well, hardly anyone dies from Measles. I mean, my kids are vaccinated as well, but certain things in modern day medicine are simply luxury, and that's not bad. But at least be so fair as to acknowledge that, and let's not pretend some parents are complicit in causing the Second Plague here.


http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/whatifstop.htm#measles
2013-09-01 07:59:25 PM  
1 votes:

gja: One can be a Christian person without wholesale and blind belief in the 'organized' religion of it.



All religious faith is irrational
The contradictions, errors, and absurdities contained within the bible and other religious texts cannot be reconciled through the use of reason or logic.
In order to reconcile these errors, contradictions, and absurdities, believers must make a leap to faith
The leap to faith is a leap away from rationality. (See Kierkegaard among others)
All religious faith is irrational
Q.E.D.

Delusions are simply irrational beliefs, like religious faith, held with a high level of conviction and highly resistant to change even when the delusional person is exposed to forms of proof that contradict the belief.

Perhaps mental illness is the wrong term, a mental disorder is probably a more correct.   Like I said mental illnesses and disorders have a spectrum. If you truly are some sort of moderate christian, cherry-picking the few verses you like and ignoring the rest, you're just like that person who has just a slight case of OCD or ADD or whatever.

Delusional disorder isn't quite the same as other psychotic disorders either, it doesn't usually cause people to act too peculiar, other than perhaps engaging in some rituals to make themselves feel better, or making other life choices based on their delusional beliefs.  People with delusional disorder also are known to suffer from delusions like believing all of their actions are constantly monitored by some outside force that exerts supernatural forces to intervene in their lives.
2013-09-01 07:44:02 PM  
1 votes:

loonatic112358: AeAe: Kumana Wanalaia: God is a part of us. It is not a magic sky wizard, it is an aspect of the mind.

People said this thousands of years ago and this is the age where we will prove it.

I like that idea.

here's mine:  God is the universal energy that is the entirety of existence.  So when we die, we go "back" to that universal energy which is "heaven"..  so we essentially "join" with God when our conscious existence ends.

the force? ok sure Jedi is an official recognized religion somewhere


The Force?  Sure why not.  I'm not into labels.  George Carlin called it "The Big Electron".  Same idea.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFKLc6K8Ydo
gja
2013-09-01 07:42:20 PM  
1 votes:

PainfulItching: snocone: These idiots are harming people.
They need to be prosecuted to the fullest extent.

Freedom of religion is a landmine that no elected official would ever step on. As long as this is blanketed under the protection of religion, the precedence has been set.


^This^
It would equate to career suicide. An idea I admit I find not that unpleasant an outcome for most politicians.
2013-09-01 07:31:35 PM  
1 votes:
I have a question in all of this. Why is it that the "churches" are being ignored when they practice medicine without a license? Offering up opinions about medical practice or giving out medical advice IS practicing medicine no matter how much you try to rationalize it. Are these preachers Doctors? Do they have any actual medical information? Or are they merely breaking the Law, like any other huckster looking for an edge over the rubes to keep their attention focused up front while the dips work the back of the crowd.

Seems to me that there are some serious Medical Ethics issues here and likely some legal problems with this.
2013-09-01 07:27:25 PM  
1 votes:
I thought the headline was another fark fake "quote", just wow.

/welcome to conservative logic.
2013-09-01 07:24:33 PM  
1 votes:

AeAe: Kumana Wanalaia: God is a part of us. It is not a magic sky wizard, it is an aspect of the mind.

People said this thousands of years ago and this is the age where we will prove it.

I like that idea.

here's mine:  God is the universal energy that is the entirety of existence.  So when we die, we go "back" to that universal energy which is "heaven"..  so we essentially "join" with God when our conscious existence ends.


the force? ok sure Jedi is an official recognized religion somewhere
2013-09-01 07:21:12 PM  
1 votes:

Peki: Don't Troll Me Bro!: Peki: ....

Dude, you're arguing with someone who's handle is "derp."

And you're on Fark. Both just as productive. :)


Smart'd and Funny'd..... Well played.
2013-09-01 07:03:12 PM  
1 votes:

jayphat: I'd like to point out the Anthrax vaccine is not nearly as effective as you would believe. If memory serves correct from when both my brothers got vaccinated in the Army, you still have a 6 in 7 chance of getting Anthrax.


To be fair, the Army is pretty metal.

www.metal-archives.com
2013-09-01 07:02:02 PM  
1 votes:

Don't Troll Me Bro!: Peki: ....

Dude, you're arguing with someone who's handle is "derp."


And you're on Fark. Both just as productive. :)
2013-09-01 07:00:40 PM  
1 votes:

Parthenogenetic: TheRameres: FunkOut: Mentat: Coming on a Bicycle: You don't die from Measles. Or well, hardly anyone dies from Measles. I mean, my kids are vaccinated as well, but certain things in modern day medicine are simply luxury, and that's not bad. But at least be so fair as to acknowledge that, and let's not pretend some parents are complicit in causing the Second Plague here.

You know measles isn't the only disease out there, right?  You know people still get bubonic plague, right?

Should we vaccinate for bubonic plague?

Because you don't vaccinate for bacterial infections.

Really?  Somebody tell the CDC.  They're spreading misinformation.

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/hib/

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/pneumo/

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/diphtheria/default.htm

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/pertussis/default.htm

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/mening/default.htm

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/typhoid/default.htm

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/tb/default.htm

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/anthrax/default.htm


I stand corrected.

Learned something new and it's not even a school day!
2013-09-01 07:00:27 PM  
1 votes:

MithrandirBooga: bigsteve3OOO: If vaccines are effective then a few people not getting them should have zero effect on the rest of the vaccinated population.

WRONG.

FTFA:

"Typically, it's the fear that the combination measles-mumps-rubella, or MMR vaccine may have in some way contributed to the epidemic of autism - which has clearly been shown not to be true in study after study," Offit says. He says those who chose to skip vaccines cause serious ripple effects.

There are hundreds of thousands of people in the United States who can't get vaccinated because they're undergoing medical treatment or are too young, for example.


Also, vaccines are never 100% effective. So there is another significant population group that benefits from universal vaccination.
2013-09-01 06:52:59 PM  
1 votes:

Peki: ....


Dude, you're arguing with someone who's handle is "derp."
2013-09-01 06:43:52 PM  
1 votes:

vpb: Tigger: Ideas as stupid as these eventually eliminate the individuals who support them. It just takes too farking long.

There is no natural selection anymore.  Stupidity has become survivable because modern society will provide food and medical treatment.


Um, yes there is still natural selection for humans. It is arguable that since the advent of large population centers, with their communicable diseases that resistance to disease has become the primary human selector. Some individuals survive plagues and diseases, and those who don't are selected out. Also, whole populations can be affected, like native American populations once exposed to European diseases.
2013-09-01 06:41:01 PM  
1 votes:
So, apparently the fact is that the Good Lord really dislikes folks with smooth skins, and the truth is he really hates folks with compromised immune systems and small children...

That's the lesson I'm getting from this.

Seriously Christians, I respect a good many of you, and your zeal and compassion, but it's folks like this that really helped me to return to my mother's faith, and seek the Middle Path...
2013-09-01 06:39:33 PM  
1 votes:

mongbiohazard: Evolution does not mean that a population of organisms "get more intelligent" - it just means that they change. That change could also possibly take the form of them getting more stupid.


Yes, but evolution driven by natural selection tends to make organisms more fit to compete for mates, rather than just changing in an unhelpful direction.

The Idiocracy hypothesis is based on two bogus premises.  The first is that intelligence is inherited, which is only partially true.  The second is that dumber people reproduce more than smarter people.  In reality, intelligence is a significant advantage to reproduction.

People only think the opposite is true lower socioeconomic classes have higher rates of reproduction, and people in the higher classes confuse class with intelligence.
2013-09-01 06:33:51 PM  
1 votes:

FunkOut: Mentat: Coming on a Bicycle: You don't die from Measles. Or well, hardly anyone dies from Measles. I mean, my kids are vaccinated as well, but certain things in modern day medicine are simply luxury, and that's not bad. But at least be so fair as to acknowledge that, and let's not pretend some parents are complicit in causing the Second Plague here.

You know measles isn't the only disease out there, right?  You know people still get bubonic plague, right?

Should we vaccinate for bubonic plague?


Because you don't vaccinate for bacterial infections.
2013-09-01 06:31:06 PM  
1 votes:

SilentStrider: If I weren't agnostic i'd be praying that this guy gets struck down by lightning.


It's for people like this that I maintain a nominal belief in god.
2013-09-01 05:58:47 PM  
1 votes:

AeAe: Kumana Wanalaia: God is a part of us. It is not a magic sky wizard, it is an aspect of the mind.

People said this thousands of years ago and this is the age where we will prove it.

I like that idea.

here's mine:  God is the universal energy that is the entirety of existence.  So when we die, we go "back" to that universal energy which is "heaven"..  so we essentially "join" with God when our conscious existence ends.


So God is not a conscious being and therefore cannot influence anything one way or the other, so why pray to it?  Or on the other hand, why not pray to microwave radiation, or dark energy?
gja
2013-09-01 05:37:28 PM  
1 votes:

Mentat: mongbiohazard: Evolution does not mean that a population of organisms "get more intelligent" - it just means that they change. That change could also possibly take the form of them getting more stupid. That human evolution appears to be accelerating does not actually contradict the premise of that "cult comedy's opening credits" like you seem to be arguing it does.

NO ONE IS SAYING THAT.

The original claim was that natural selection is dead.  That's something that internet hipsters who don't understand evolution say in order to make themselves feel smarter.  Evolution and natural selection are working just fine, as the people who understand evolution have explained over and over in this thread.  It doesn't matter whether the results turn out to be progressive or regressive because evolution only operates in the now.


31.media.tumblr.com
2013-09-01 05:36:11 PM  
1 votes:

Kumana Wanalaia: God is a part of us. It is not a magic sky wizard, it is an aspect of the mind.

People said this thousands of years ago and this is the age where we will prove it.


I like that idea.

here's mine:  God is the universal energy that is the entirety of existence.  So when we die, we go "back" to that universal energy which is "heaven"..  so we essentially "join" with God when our conscious existence ends.
2013-09-01 05:17:02 PM  
1 votes:
I just wish we had the guts to take kids away from people like this (and other losers) and the brains to have a safe, healthy environment to raise them. But, I guess letting them die is another, more cruel way of dealing with them.

Other than doing stupid, fake stuff to 'protect' our kids (freaking out about porn and making war on drugs) our society doesn't seem to give two shiats about kids. And we wonder where all the screwed up adults come from.
2013-09-01 05:08:07 PM  
1 votes:

ex-nuke: The FARK headline was pretty good, it sort of reminds me of Democrats talking about gun control.


It's a bit late in the thread, but not bad!
2013-09-01 05:00:13 PM  
1 votes:

PainfulItching: ruta: Wait til they get their wave of pertussis and they have babies dying horrific deaths. That'll learn 'em. Or maybe diphtheria. Diphtheria's pretty farking biblical.

If you've got any concerns about vaccines, do a GIS for diphtheria and then re-consider the validity of your concerns. Also be prepared to be haunted by the image of a "pseudomembrane" forever after.

I've actually had pertussis as an adult. I was immunized as a kid. Sometimes the vax loses its efficacy. Relatively mild case, but it still sucked. Got a booster shot once the infection was cleared. My ribs haven't been the same since though.


Same here. I wish my doctor had told me to get the booster before. I have asthma and my lungs were a wreck for a year. Can't imagine having to watch a kid with that cough.

\And IIRC, the vaccine is only 80% successful, which makes the fact that it's going around adults again rather scary even for parents who do fully vaccinate.
2013-09-01 04:49:35 PM  
1 votes:

bingo the psych-o: Dear Christians:

Immunization prevents more diseases than prayer ever will.  Insulin treats more diabetes than prayer ever will.  Chemotherapy has cured more cancers than prayer ever will.

Please, please, please educate yourselves for the sake of your own children.


Dear Christians:

God gave humans the intelligence to discover immunizations.   God gave humans the intelligence to discover insulin and God gave humans the intelligence to discover Chemotherapy.   Please start using them as you are making God very sad that you are ignoring all the good he has placed in your hands.
2013-09-01 04:44:05 PM  
1 votes:

Coming on a Bicycle: You don't die from Measles. Or well, hardly anyone dies from Measles. I mean, my kids are vaccinated as well, but certain things in modern day medicine are simply luxury, and that's not bad. But at least be so fair as to acknowledge that, and let's not pretend some parents are complicit in causing the Second Plague here.


Measles infection of the brain (encephalitis) can cause convulsions, mental retardation, and even death.
2013-09-01 04:32:48 PM  
1 votes:
Who's up for revoking tax exempt status? Tax the fark outta them, and get a nonbiased, non bible thumping judge to uphold the resulting case, and rule in favor of the plaintiffs. And there will be, the church as a nuisance to the community.
/I can dream, can't I?
//Where's Jenny mccarthy when you need her?
2013-09-01 04:30:31 PM  
1 votes:

Great Porn Dragon: Guntram Shatterhand: On the bright side, this would be a great reality show:  "Tard Circus," where several believers test their faith by swimming in infected blood, eating various contaminated bread, and seeing if they can take a bullet to the face to see how much they love God.  And if they catch something/die, then it's their fault and it's some sin that the announcer, safe in a plastic bubble, can make up on the spot.

It's much better than electing these sad idiots to any positions of power, really.

The funny thing is that THIS ACTUALLY EXISTS (after a fashion) already in parts of Appalachia--"Church of Jesus Christ with Signs Following" and other Oneness Pentecostal churches that tend to be more than a bit infamous for things like drinking poison and picking up timber rattlers during services.

And yes, even though snake-handlin' in "snake handlin' churches" is technically illegal and HAS been since 1946 here in Kentucky, we still get at least one person a year who kicks up dead because they managed to handle a "hot herp" which gave them a full envenomating dose or because the poison kicked in that time.  (Keep in mind that a lot of the areas where "snake handlin' churches" exist are sufficiently remote that it would take a Level 1 trauma flight team the better part of a half hour to get to a hospital with proper facilities to treat a serious crotalid envenomation or a major poisoning.  Keep in mind that a LOT of these "snake handlin' churches" tend to eschew most medical treatment anyways.)

And yes, they DO tend to blame the inevitable deaths resulting from Russian Roulette For Gawd as the person having insufficient faith or "Their Time Had Come".


I hate that stupid fatalistic attitude. It fills me with disgust.

It reminds me of the time I took a driving safety class to have a speeding ticket erased from my record (was doing 10 over the limit in a speed trap). A guy in the class got into an argument with the instructor about how if he's speeding through a small residential road and hits a little kid who darts into his path, well, it was just fate. Completely absolves him of responsibility.

Really, guy? So if I murder you out in the parking lot and steal your car that's just fate too, right? Not my problem!
2013-09-01 04:29:30 PM  
1 votes:
Saul T. Balzac:
THE DMV SKIPPED NUMBER 666!  It went straight from 664 665 to 667.

*facepalm*

Even the State of Georgia believes there's something wrong with the number 666!


FTFM
2013-09-01 04:27:14 PM  
1 votes:

PainfulItching: Elzar: Tigger: Peki: Tigger: Benevolent Misanthrope: 

Maybe we can aggressively promote something that is beneficial or essential for survival as 'the mark of the beast'. Xtians will fall all over themselves trying to distance themselves... Any ideas?

As long as nothing has a barcode on it.

/yes some of them believe that



I actually know, and am distantly related to, some of these folks who think barcodes are the sign of the devil.

unrelated csb:

Went to the DMV here in Georgia to get a Georgia driver's license.   Had to take a number (671) and wait for it to be called.  So I'm sitting there waiting for my turn, when I notice the current number is 665. I make a joke to my neighbor about how funny it would be if the person who drew the number 666 refused to respond to the number because of the superstition surrounding it.

Then the time comes...

THE DMV SKIPPED NUMBER 666!  It went straight from 664 to 667.

*facepalm*

Even the State of Georgia believes there's something wrong with the number 666!
2013-09-01 04:23:01 PM  
1 votes:

AeAe: Can we try this?  Send a guy in a hazmat suit to the church and give away t-shirts covered in small pox that reads "Jesus saves!"..

If it doesn't wipe out the church, then the t-shirts are right.  If it does, I guess God was angry with them for some reason.  Possibly because of the gays.


Old and busted: snake handling
New hotness: smallpox handling
2013-09-01 04:22:00 PM  
1 votes:

pissnmoan: The truth and a few facts.

A rubella (measles) infection can cause miscarriage, preterm birth, or stillbirth, as well as a variety of birth defects, but it depends on how far along you are when you contract the virus. The risks are highest during the early stages of a baby's development and they go down as pregnancy progresses.
If you get rubella during the first 12 weeks of pregnancy, there's a high chance (up to 85 percent) that your baby will develop CRS (Congenital Rubella Syndrome). The rate of CRS for a baby whose mother is infected between 13 and 16 weeks is about 54 percent, and the rate continues to go down sharply from there. After 20 weeks there's very little risk that the infection will cause a birth defect.
There's a wide range of very serious problems associated with CRS, most commonly deafness, eye defects (which may lead to blindness), heart malformations, and neurologic problems, such as mental retardation. Other defects may also be evident at birth, or problems may surface later in infancy and childhood.

Early in my professional training (1970's), I spent a couple of months in a care unit for children with CRS.  It was horrible, a living nightmare.  Just wait until some of these unvaccinated women start hitting reproductive age and then contracting rubella early in their pregnancies.  I suppose there will again be care units for children with CRS because their stupid mothers weren't vaccinated.


My mom tells the story of being exposed to rubella when she was pregnant for me. She's a nurse, and was working pediatrics, small kid with measles upchucked on her, she tested pregnant a few days later. Massive concern all around. II semed tu trun aut OK
drp
2013-09-01 04:21:29 PM  
1 votes:

Peki: And they breed in the meantime. Darwin doesn't always reward the smartest, just the most successful at breeding.


Aren't you the farking idiot who passionately argued against treating people with Downs Syndrome?  Something about how curing that condition would harm the rest of us, who would then not have the cultural perspective and count-our-blessings gratitude that comes from having a bunch of people with preventable mental retardation all around us?


Yeah ... it was ... http://www.fark.com/comments/7883698

No. There is not necessarily anything "wrong" with these folks. They have a chromosomal abnormality. The "defect" is that they cannot survive in *this* culture. It's the culture that's the problem, not them; the solution is not Gattaca.

We will always have genetic "mistakes." Evolution requires it. The trick is to learn how to accommodate those realities, not to make those "mistake" conform to the reality we have artificially created.


So, what is it you've got against measles?  Shouldn't we refrain from treating or preventing it?  I mean, if trisomy 21 isn't a "defect" as you claim, then surely measles isn't either.  The crippled and disabled victims are just differently-abled, and as long as it's someone else's kid, well, then for you it's just a learning opportunity and slice of culture.
2013-09-01 04:08:28 PM  
1 votes:

Elzar: Tigger: Peki: Tigger: Benevolent Misanthrope: Earlier this week crowds flooded in for regular services. Rose Mwangi had her Bible in hand, and said she's not worried.
 

"Because I know Jesus is a healer, so I know he's covered us with the blood," Mwangi says. "There's no place for fear."

"The concerns we have had are primarily with very young children who have family history of autism and with bundling too many immunizations at one time," she [the pastor] said.
 

"You don't take the word of the guy that's trying to give the shot about what's good and what isn't," he [pastor's father, noted nutbag Kenneth Copland] said.

And Christians wonder why the rest of us think of them as a bunch of servile f*ckwits.

Ideas as stupid as these eventually eliminate the individuals who support them. It just takes too farking long.

And they breed in the meantime. Darwin doesn't always reward the smartest, just the most successful at breeding.

It's not a simple as 'the less fit can now survive'. We eventually get rid of the idiots. It just takes a really long time. Took a thousand years to get these people out of government in Europe but they are now essentially relegated to fringe loony positions. Hopefully that takes less time in the US.

Maybe we can aggressively promote something that is beneficial or essential for survival as 'the mark of the beast'. Xtians will fall all over themselves trying to distance themselves... Any ideas?


Obamacare?
2013-09-01 04:08:22 PM  
1 votes:

Guntram Shatterhand: On the bright side, this would be a great reality show:  "Tard Circus," where several believers test their faith by swimming in infected blood, eating various contaminated bread, and seeing if they can take a bullet to the face to see how much they love God.  And if they catch something/die, then it's their fault and it's some sin that the announcer, safe in a plastic bubble, can make up on the spot.

It's much better than electing these sad idiots to any positions of power, really.


The funny thing is that THIS ACTUALLY EXISTS (after a fashion) already in parts of Appalachia--"Church of Jesus Christ with Signs Following" and other Oneness Pentecostal churches that tend to be more than a bit infamous for things like drinking poison and picking up timber rattlers during services.

And yes, even though snake-handlin' in "snake handlin' churches" is technically illegal and HAS been since 1946 here in Kentucky, we still get at least one person a year who kicks up dead because they managed to handle a "hot herp" which gave them a full envenomating dose or because the poison kicked in that time.  (Keep in mind that a lot of the areas where "snake handlin' churches" exist are sufficiently remote that it would take a Level 1 trauma flight team the better part of a half hour to get to a hospital with proper facilities to treat a serious crotalid envenomation or a major poisoning.  Keep in mind that a LOT of these "snake handlin' churches" tend to eschew most medical treatment anyways.)

And yes, they DO tend to blame the inevitable deaths resulting from Russian Roulette For Gawd as the person having insufficient faith or "Their Time Had Come".
2013-09-01 04:06:01 PM  
1 votes:

Tigger: Peki: Tigger: Benevolent Misanthrope: Earlier this week crowds flooded in for regular services. Rose Mwangi had her Bible in hand, and said she's not worried.
 

"Because I know Jesus is a healer, so I know he's covered us with the blood," Mwangi says. "There's no place for fear."

"The concerns we have had are primarily with very young children who have family history of autism and with bundling too many immunizations at one time," she [the pastor] said.
 

"You don't take the word of the guy that's trying to give the shot about what's good and what isn't," he [pastor's father, noted nutbag Kenneth Copland] said.

And Christians wonder why the rest of us think of them as a bunch of servile f*ckwits.

Ideas as stupid as these eventually eliminate the individuals who support them. It just takes too farking long.

And they breed in the meantime. Darwin doesn't always reward the smartest, just the most successful at breeding.

It's not a simple as 'the less fit can now survive'. We eventually get rid of the idiots. It just takes a really long time. Took a thousand years to get these people out of government in Europe but they are now essentially relegated to fringe loony positions. Hopefully that takes less time in the US.


Maybe we can aggressively promote something that is beneficial or essential for survival as 'the mark of the beast'. Xtians will fall all over themselves trying to distance themselves... Any ideas?
2013-09-01 04:02:13 PM  
1 votes:
I think it is funny that parents who refuse to get their kids vaccinated have been vaccinated themselves.

I work with a fat chick who is in her 30s who has an 7 year old brother because seems like her mom had one last good egg holding out and dropped the brat at a late age.

Mom, dad, and the entire family have been vaccinated, but the little sprig no.  They have decided to home school him and keep him away from the evil needles.

So this mom in her 50s has a high school education and the kids home "learnin" consists of video tapes and older sis taking the the tests for him.

He is always wheezing and sound like he has the whooping cough mixed with TB.

The kicker is that before I took my annual trip to Colombia most people were asking me to bring them coffee back, or chocolate, or a knick knack, this girl comes up to me and hands me a 100 dollar bill and says "buy all the antibiotics down there you can for that" She says that her little brother is often sick and that the doctor refuses to see him until he has had his shots, and she said the doctor was a Nazi.

I handed her mony back and said I was going to be supplying any meds, she could go do the doctor for that.
2013-09-01 03:45:27 PM  
1 votes:

SuperNinjaToad: Benevolent Misanthrope: Earlier this week crowds flooded in for regular services. Rose Mwangi had her Bible in hand, and said she's not worried.
 

"Because I know Jesus is a healer, so I know he's covered us with the blood," Mwangi says. "There's no place for fear."

"The concerns we have had are primarily with very young children who have family history of autism and with bundling too many immunizations at one time," she [the pastor] said.
 

"You don't take the word of the guy that's trying to give the shot about what's good and what isn't," he [pastor's father, noted nutbag Kenneth Copland] said.

And Christians wonder why the rest of us think of them as a bunch of servile f*ckwits.

paint with a broad strokes much? there are literally tens of millions of Christians in the US but yeah one fringe group in Texas represents all of them.


See my comment immediately previous.
2013-09-01 03:44:09 PM  
1 votes:

KrispyKritter: Benevolent Misanthrope: Earlier this week crowds flooded in for regular services. Rose Mwangi had her Bible in hand, and said she's not worried.
 

"Because I know Jesus is a healer, so I know he's covered us with the blood," Mwangi says. "There's no place for fear."

"The concerns we have had are primarily with very young children who have family history of autism and with bundling too many immunizations at one time," she [the pastor] said.
 

"You don't take the word of the guy that's trying to give the shot about what's good and what isn't," he [pastor's father, noted nutbag Kenneth Copland] said.

And Christians wonder why the rest of us think of them as a bunch of servile f*ckwits.

Measure all by the action of one. You're a straight thinker.


Ummm... are you honestly going to pretend that this is an unprecedented, isolated incident of the credulous being fleeced by the church?  Really?  Seriously?
2013-09-01 03:40:20 PM  
1 votes:

Kumana Wanalaia: God is a part of us. It is not a magic sky wizard, it is an aspect of the mind.

People said this thousands of years ago and this is the age where we will prove it.



"If we smash in the skulls of these young virgins on a mountaintop our crops will grow better next year!"

"Every day the sun is carried across the sky in the back of a chariot!"

"The world is flat and carried on the back of a turtle!"

"Diseases are caused by evil spirits!"


Those are all things people said thousands of years ago. You're engaging in the logical fallacy of anappeal to ancient wisdom.

People said plenty of utterly idiotic things "thousands of years ago". Something simply being shiat people said a long time ago doesn't make it true, and in fact would give a higher likelihood of the opposite being that our sum total of knowledge has increased exponentially over the millennia by correcting old myths and building on successive generations of discovery and knowledge.
2013-09-01 03:29:52 PM  
1 votes:
God is a part of us. It is not a magic sky wizard, it is an aspect of the mind.

People said this thousands of years ago and this is the age where we will prove it.
2013-09-01 03:14:16 PM  
1 votes:

Coming on a Bicycle: You don't die from Measles. Or well, hardly anyone dies from Measles. I mean, my kids are vaccinated as well, but certain things in modern day medicine are simply luxury, and that's not bad. But at least be so fair as to acknowledge that, and let's not pretend some parents are complicit in causing the Second Plague here.


http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs286/en/
"Measles is a highly contagious, serious disease caused by a virus. In 1980, before widespread vaccination, measles caused an estimated 2.6 million deaths each year. "

Just because we do a decent job of keeping it from being a rampant plague, doesn't mean we should lessen the severity of its prevention.
2013-09-01 03:10:36 PM  
1 votes:

Kahabut: I farking hate that movie, because it essentially turns what was an entirely logical conclusion into a dick and fart joke, which makes it very easy for people to dismiss it.  Despite the FACT that it's not inaccurate.


IMO the greatest flaw in that movie (idiocracy) is that it conflates stupidity with ignorance. They are not the same. Both the ignorant and the stupid are likely to breed like bunnies, but the stupid will end up darwinning themselves with meth or krokodil, or in "Hey Cletus! Watch this!" moments. The smart but ignorant would somehow muddle along.

We fangless, clawless, thin-skinned creatures are absolutely dependent on a working brain to survive. We're goners without it.
2013-09-01 03:09:49 PM  
1 votes:

OtherLittleGuy: Dinki: So let's get this straight-

Parents get vaccinations for their kid, kid doesn't get sick- "This is Gods will!"


Reminds me of this story:

This is a story of a man, who was a firm believer of God.

One day it began to rain very heavily. It kept raining and a big flood came.

The man climbed up on the roof of his house, and knew that he would be ok. God would protect him.

It kept raining and now the water had reached his waist. A boat came by and a guy in the boat said: "Hey, jump in. We will take you with us".

"No thanks", said the man. "I'm a firm believer in God. He will rescue me". He sent the boat away.

It kept on raining and now the water had reached his neck. Another boat came by and a guy in the boat said: "You look like you could need some help. Jump in and we will take you with us".

"No", said the man. "I'm a firm believer in God. He will rescue me. Don't worry about me". The boat sailed away.

It still rained and the water now reached his mouth. A helicopter came by and a guy in the helicopter threw down a rope and said: "Hi there my friend. Climb up. We will rescue you".

"No", said the man. "I'm a firm believer in God. He will rescue me. I know he will". The helicopter flew away.

It kept on raining, and finally the man drowned.

When the man died, he went to heaven. When entering Heaven, he had an interview with God.
After giving a polite greeting and sitting down, the man asked: "Where were you. I waited and waited. I was sure you would rescue me, as I have been a firm believer all my life, and have only done good to others. So where were you when I needed you?"

God scratched His confused looking face and answered: "I don't get it either. I sent you two boats and a helicopter".


/"I sent vaccines and medicines and doctors. Why did you refuse them?"


Dangit! I had my post all written up, but got interrupted and couldn't post it for a little bit... But yeah, exactly. People who eschew modern medical breakthroughs like vaccines in favor of prayer, depending on "god's will" to protect them are really only - poorly - trying to rationalize away their arrogant, willful ignorance. If you believe in god, then logically he sent doctors, scientists, vaccines and medicine to protect you. By shunning these things in favor of putting god to a "foolish test" instead a believer is actually rejecting god's will and his plan in their aforementioned arrogance and ignorance.

If you're the kind of person who believes in such foolish nonsense such as deities of course...
2013-09-01 03:05:32 PM  
1 votes:

Coming on a Bicycle: You don't die from Measles. Or well, hardly anyone dies from Measles. I mean, my kids are vaccinated as well, but certain things in modern day medicine are simply luxury, and that's not bad. But at least be so fair as to acknowledge that, and let's not pretend some parents are complicit in causing the Second Plague here.


But there is the risk of deafness and mental retardation in kids. Also, there's a neurodegenerative condition that can show up years after clearing the measles.
2013-09-01 03:04:05 PM  
1 votes:

mhuckins: Dinki: So let's get this straight-

Parents refuse vaccinations for their kid, kid doesn't get sick- "See, God protects our children!"

Parents refuse vaccinations for their kid, kid gets sick- "This is Gods will!"

Parents get vaccinations for their kid, kid doesn't get sick- "This is Gods will!"

Parents get vaccinations for their kid, kid gets sick - "It's that evil science!"

Don't forget parents refuse vaccinations for their kid, kid gets sick, infects someone allergic to the vaccination- "oops".

I don't want to find out the hard way that I am not immune to measles because some dickhead chose not to vaccinate their kids. The odds of a serious allergic reaction are so small there is no reason not to inoculate your kids.


They'd better not try any of this nonsense in Madagascar.
2013-09-01 02:59:20 PM  
1 votes:

bigsteve3OOO: Raw_fishFood: bigsteve3OOO: If vaccines are effective then a few people not getting them should have zero effect on the rest of the vaccinated population.

Herd immunity works by having everybody who can get vaccinated, well, get vaccinated. By greatly reducing the people who can get sick this protects the people who cannot get vaccinated for legitimate reasons, like being too young or weak immune systems.

When people don't get vaccinated despite not having any medical reason not to do so it not only makes the people who can't get vaccinated more vulnerable but gives the disease a chance to mutate and infect people who are only vaccinated against the original strain.

Seems like praying to your god of science has not helped you.  Perhaps a different god would.


You know that old joke about the farmer in the flood... First a neighbor comes by with a canoe, and the farmer sends him away saying "I have faith in god, god will protect me." The flood gets higher and another neighbor comes by in a speedboat, and again the farmer waves him off saying, "I have faith in god, god will protect me." Then later the flood has gotten so high the farmer is now stuck on his roof. A national guard helicopter comes to get him and he sends them away too, once again saying, "I have faith in god, god will protect me."

The flood finally washes away his home and kills him. He gets to heaven and is at the pearly gates and demands an answer from St. Peter, "I had all my faith in god, why did he forsake me? Why wouldn't he protect me?" St. Peter incredulously replies, "What are you talking about? He sent you a canoe, he sent you a speedboat, he sent you a helicopter... what more did you want?"

This old joke nicely illustrates the stupidity of those who eschew vaccinations due to "faith in god" - which is really just ignorance in reality. "I sent you doctors and scientists and vaccines... What more did you want?"
2013-09-01 02:52:09 PM  
1 votes:
This is what morons believe.
2013-09-01 02:50:58 PM  
1 votes:

Coming on a Bicycle: Mentat: Coming on a Bicycle: You don't die from Measles. Or well, hardly anyone dies from Measles. I mean, my kids are vaccinated as well, but certain things in modern day medicine are simply luxury, and that's not bad. But at least be so fair as to acknowledge that, and let's not pretend some parents are complicit in causing the Second Plague here.

You know measles isn't the only disease out there, right?  You know people still get bubonic plague, right?

Is your point that the Bubonic Plague can be prevented with the Measles vaccin? Or is your point that the Bubonic Plague is treated with antibiotics these days? If you have a point, I'd like to know about it.


Your original comment implied that it was no big deal because it's just measles.  It ignored the fact that measles has been eradicated in the US and that the only reason it appeared in this community is because one of its members took a trip to Indonesia and contracted it there.  He could just as easily picked up any disease.  There is a bubonic plague outbreak going on right now in central Asia.  There are still areas of this world where polio exists.  The anti-vacc community is susecptible to all of them, not just the relatively minor diseases like measles or mumps.  If the person in question had visited Kazakhstan instead and decided to try some roasted marmot, this church could be suffering from the Plague right now.

Do you get the point now, or should I use smaller words?
2013-09-01 02:48:11 PM  
1 votes:
But would those Good Christians refuse to get a transplant for themselves or their loved ones?  Are they refusing to consume pharmaceuticals like anti-hypertensives and statins and anti-diabetes meds and Cialis?

No.

/farking hypocrites
2013-09-01 02:47:22 PM  
1 votes:

Coming on a Bicycle: Ilmarinen: Coming on a Bicycle: Lachwen: Mentat: Coming on a Bicycle: You don't die from Measles. Or well, hardly anyone dies from Measles. I mean, my kids are vaccinated as well, but certain things in modern day medicine are simply luxury, and that's not bad. But at least be so fair as to acknowledge that, and let's not pretend some parents are complicit in causing the Second Plague here.

You know measles isn't the only disease out there, right?  You know people still get bubonic plague, right?

And let's not forget that measles may be an uncomfortable but ultimately non-serious disease for most children, if you contract it as an adult you run a MUCH higher risk of serious, permanent damage, like blindness and sterility.

Sure. But that's more of a risk you run in an almost-fully-vaccinated society, than in a hardly-vaccinated-at-all society. Because in the latter environment, you would have had it as a child. So I would contend that you're arguing against yourself here.

Vaccinated people HAVE had it as a child.

Yes. But what I meant is (at the risk of explaining myself to a troll) - that non-vaccinated people walking around in an almost-fully-vaccinated environment, run a much greater risk of catching it as an adult, because they are more mobile as an adult. Our society is the almost-fully-vaccinated environment, and therefore much more dangerous to the non-vaccinated. Were our society the non-vaccinated kind, then people would have had an equal chance to get it as a child (because when you're vaccinated, you get the disease, but you're not - or hardly - contageous). Which is why - to the non-vaccinated person, the non-vaccinated society is the better one. Get my point?


Or maybe everyone that is not allergic should be vaccinated. If everyone who is not allergic is vaccinated, given the low incidence of allergies to the vaccinations, the allergic people will have a small chance of getting sick. The problem starts when foolish people stop vaccinating their children for made-up, unsupported, and demonstrably false reasons.

Also for the record, measles may not be that bad of a disease as a child, but preventing the disease in healthy children is not the point of the vaccine. The main point of the MMR vaccine is to control when people become immune to the virus; we don't want pregnant women getting those diseases because it can cause birth defects or even kill the kid. We also don't want six-year-olds passing their measles to babies, or those who have compromised immune systems, which they come into contact with.  Six-year-olds have terrible hygiene habits.

Either way, your argument is kinda silly because in a non-vaccinated society, more non-vaccinated people will die from MMR than people in an almost fully vaccinated society, if only because there are simply more non-vaccinated people to die. I am sure the percentage dead will be greater in the non-vaccinated society too because of rarity of the disease in the almost fully vaccinated society. In other words, a non-vaccinated person will be less likely to encounter the virus.

In conclusion: Don't be a fool, get your kid vaccinated.
2013-09-01 02:44:49 PM  
1 votes:
FTFA:

"This is a good example, unfortunately, of how birds of a feather flock together," Terk says. "If you have individuals who are vaccine-hesitant or vaccine-hostile, they congregate together, and that creates its own unique situation where a population of individuals is susceptible to getting the very disease that they decided they don't want to protect themselves from."

...and thus the problem solves itself.
2013-09-01 02:35:05 PM  
1 votes:

I_Can't_Believe_it's_not_Boutros: cameroncrazy1984: Mister Peejay: 150-200 years ago, I probably wouldn't have lived past childhood, or if I did, I would have been labeled a moron or something because I can't see six inches in front of my face.

/happy little cyborg

You do realize that 150-200 years ago, glasses did exist, right? They aren't necessarily a modern invention.

They are, in fact, a medieval invention--late thirteenth century. Benjamin Franklin invented bifocals.


Correct. The idea that glasses were some sort of novelty around the time of the Revolution is hilarious.
2013-09-01 02:34:07 PM  
1 votes:

theorellior: ThePastafarian: Dinki: So let's get this straight-

Parents refuse vaccinations for their kid, kid doesn't get sick- "See, God protects our children!"

Parents refuse vaccinations for their kid, kid gets sick- "This is Gods will!"

Parents get vaccinations for their kid, kid doesn't get sick- "This is Gods will!"

Parents get vaccinations for their kid, kid gets sick - "It's that evil science!"

Something good happens: "This was the work of God"

Something bad happens: "The Lord works in mysterious ways"

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.

Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.

Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?

Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?


I wish that I was familiar with Epicurus back in my catholic high school days.
2013-09-01 02:30:27 PM  
1 votes:

cameroncrazy1984: Mister Peejay: 150-200 years ago, I probably wouldn't have lived past childhood, or if I did, I would have been labeled a moron or something because I can't see six inches in front of my face.

/happy little cyborg

You do realize that 150-200 years ago, glasses did exist, right? They aren't necessarily a modern invention.


They are, in fact, a medieval invention--late thirteenth century. Benjamin Franklin invented bifocals.
2013-09-01 02:29:32 PM  
1 votes:
On behalf of Texas -- I'd like to apologize for the insane amount of stupid that spews from the people depicted in this article. I live in the DFW, TX area -- and yeah there are a few of those mega churches here and there. What's really messed up is for all the "giving/love/chairity" these people claim to have, when your church occupies 2 city blocks, pays no taxes, and the people running the show (because that's all it really is, a show) are making six or seven figures... just.... fark you church. If they are so against basic science and medicine if I had my way, when they show up at the hospital desperate for care, give them the bible and tell them to pray harder. When their child dies it will be "because they didn't love jesus enough". hah (so much fun twisting their own retard logic against them)

I remember getting my MMR (measles, mumps, rubella) shot as a kid> worked out great seeing as how we were keeping the shiat in "eradicated" status.

I also like how these morons spout "it's the will of god" only when it's convenient... always fun to twist it back on them and tell them it's the will of god that your child get sick of an easily preventable disease because mommy and daddy are too stupid to think for themselves.  In situations like this -- I'd have no problem with making the parents lives a living hell via child protective services. Worse is one of these know it all bible beaters is going to raise the next david koresh someday.
2013-09-01 02:23:18 PM  
1 votes:

ruta: Wait til they get their wave of pertussis and they have babies dying horrific deaths. That'll learn 'em. Or maybe diphtheria. Diphtheria's pretty farking biblical.

If you've got any concerns about vaccines, do a GIS for diphtheria and then re-consider the validity of your concerns. Also be prepared to be haunted by the image of a "pseudomembrane" forever after.


I've actually had pertussis as an adult. I was immunized as a kid. Sometimes the vax loses its efficacy. Relatively mild case, but it still sucked. Got a booster shot once the infection was cleared. My ribs haven't been the same since though.
2013-09-01 02:15:19 PM  
1 votes:

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: When a liberal celebrity does it: "Ooh lets examine the science, it's good to question big Pharma!"

When a pastor does it: "Haha, dumb hillbillies, they dont bieve in science and modern medicine, what a bunch of rubes!"


Pretty sure in both cases the anti-vaccination person is usually labeled a "Dumb motherfarker."
2013-09-01 02:10:27 PM  
1 votes:

buzzcut73: rohar: The hell with the vaccination issue, how is ANYTHING in the retrograde, flat state of Texas named "mountain" anything?

I don't know about the area the church is in, but there are mountains in the El Paso area.



Those mountains belong to Las Cruces, dammit.  You better be grateful that New Mexico lets you use 'em!
2013-09-01 02:10:19 PM  
1 votes:

Saul T. Balzac: I'd be pissed as hell if some Fundie inbred gave me measles despite my best efforts to prevent it from happening.


The thing is, anti-vac isn't just the Fundies.

I understand why the Fark wants to label anti-vac as such (since Fundies are like Hitlar or whatever), but avoiding vaccines is hardly confined to the retard fringe of the Xian Fundie movement.
2013-09-01 02:06:28 PM  
1 votes:

MithrandirBooga: bigsteve3OOO: If vaccines are effective then a few people not getting them should have zero effect on the rest of the vaccinated population.

WRONG.

FTFA:

"Typically, it's the fear that the combination measles-mumps-rubella, or MMR vaccine may have in some way contributed to the epidemic of autism - which has clearly been shown not to be true in study after study," Offit says. He says those who chose to skip vaccines cause serious ripple effects.

There are hundreds of thousands of people in the United States who can't get vaccinated because they're undergoing medical treatment or are too young, for example.


I'm one of those folks who keeps getting MMR boosters, but my titers keep saying I'm not immune to measles (which is why I keep getting boosters).  I'd be pissed as hell if some Fundie inbred gave me measles despite my best efforts to prevent it from happening.
2013-09-01 02:03:46 PM  
1 votes:

Tigger: Benevolent Misanthrope: Earlier this week crowds flooded in for regular services. Rose Mwangi had her Bible in hand, and said she's not worried.
 

"Because I know Jesus is a healer, so I know he's covered us with the blood," Mwangi says. "There's no place for fear."

"The concerns we have had are primarily with very young children who have family history of autism and with bundling too many immunizations at one time," she [the pastor] said.
 

"You don't take the word of the guy that's trying to give the shot about what's good and what isn't," he [pastor's father, noted nutbag Kenneth Copland] said.

And Christians wonder why the rest of us think of them as a bunch of servile f*ckwits.

Ideas as stupid as these eventually eliminate the individuals who support them. It just takes too farking long.


"The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right." - Mark Twain
2013-09-01 02:01:19 PM  
1 votes:

i upped my meds-up yours: NeverDrunk23: And it was said that God created man in his image, and as history has shown, humans can do good and bad things.

Maybe God is just one big human.

Pastor Copeland obviously believes God is just one big Texan.


I doubt there is any possible way to insult God worse than that.
2013-09-01 01:58:50 PM  
1 votes:
Dear Christians:

Immunization prevents more diseases than prayer ever will.  Insulin treats more diabetes than prayer ever will.  Chemotherapy has cured more cancers than prayer ever will.

Please, please, please educate yourselves for the sake of your own children.
2013-09-01 01:54:32 PM  
1 votes:
Ban these people from all public services immediately.  There is no reason to compromise herd immunity for the sake of these people's self-destructive beliefs.  It's not worth the deaths of innocent children just to avoid hurting the easily-bruised feelings of the Faithful.

Let them form a leper colony and pray away the measles if they like, but contain them and keep everyone else safe.
2013-09-01 01:51:31 PM  
1 votes:

bigsteve3OOO: Seems like praying to your god of science has not helped you.  Perhaps a different god would.


Pretty sure this story is evidence against "praying to god" being an effective alternative to vaccination.
2013-09-01 01:51:21 PM  
1 votes:

bigsteve3OOO: If vaccines are effective then a few people not getting them should have zero effect on the rest of the vaccinated population.


Vaccinated people are less likely than unvaccinated people to become infected once exposed. If that likelihood dropped to zero, then bigsteve3000's statement would be true. But it doesn't, so it isn't.

/ I apologize for responding straight, instead of making a joke answer to what may well have been a joke post
2013-09-01 01:50:49 PM  
1 votes:

lokis_mentor: It's a church in Texas.  Someone call Janet Reno. She'll fix it.


We have to get rid of high concentrations of lunatics and child molesters somehow. If the Janet Reno method is the best, let's use it.
2013-09-01 01:50:15 PM  
1 votes:

Mentat: vpb: Tigger: The rate of human evolution actually appears to be accelerating. Despite the well-argued claims of a cult comedy's opening credits.

No, It's actual biology, despite the fact that some guy used the idea to make a movie.

Besides, it's not too hard to figure out that someone with a fatal genetic flaw who is able to survive and breed because of modern medicine will pass on his genetic condition instead of becoming a genetic dead end.

You're arguing two completely separate things.  The rate of evolution in the human population has increased, but technology and civilization has also changed the evolutionary parameters under which selection and genetic drift operate.  Natural selection is most definitely still occurring and would actually be predicted to get stronger as the various world populations increasingly intermingle.


And you are missing the point.  No one ever said natural selection (which I think is the wrong term for what humans practice) had to be good for the population.  For every existent animal on earth, there are dozens of extinct ones.  If we assume the classic definition of natural selection, then the strongest "most successful" BREEDERS are the ones pushing evolution.  In many populations, that isn't the one most capable of surviving, as evidenced by extinction.  Furthermore, if we are talking about humans, the people who have the most kids are not necessarily the most adapted to survival.  In point of fact, if you want to go by socio-economic station, they are the least adapted.

I farking hate that movie, because it essentially turns what was an entirely logical conclusion into a dick and fart joke, which makes it very easy for people to dismiss it.  Despite the FACT that it's not inaccurate.

Is evolution happening faster in humans, yes because we are breeding faster, this isn't difficult to understand.  The part you seem to be missing is, evolution isn't necessarily a good thing.  The name implies getting better, but that's not the reality.
2013-09-01 01:49:01 PM  
1 votes:

Coming on a Bicycle: You don't die from Measles. Or well, hardly anyone dies from Measles. I mean, my kids are vaccinated as well, but certain things in modern day medicine are simply luxury, and that's not bad. But at least be so fair as to acknowledge that, and let's not pretend some parents are complicit in causing the Second Plague here.


1) Nobody is pretending that it's the plague.

B) Lethality is not the point at all. The point is, it's a stupidly easy disease to not get. The vaccine is so effective now you basically have a choice of getting measles or not getting measles. They chose... poorly.
2013-09-01 01:48:19 PM  
1 votes:

MithrandirBooga: Benevolent Misanthrope: ThePastafarian: Something good happens: "This was the work of God"

Something bad happens: "The Lord works in mysterious ways"

Religion is the pinnacle of circular reasoning.  Since their god is all good, all the good stuff is attributable to him and proof of his goodness.  Since he is all good, all the bad stuff is someone else's fault - usually the victim's, since it's just punishment for their "sins" (i.e., bad decisions and normal imperfection), thus proving their god's goodness.

Seriously, it's the biggest scam in history.  Pretty amazing, actually.


I personally believe the staying-power of Christiantity over most other religions is the whole "You can still go to heaven no matter how many people you murder, just as long as you say you believe in Jesus before you die" bullshiat.

That makes the religion very attractive to lazy people who aren't at all concerned about being good people.


They do not want to learn or live like Christ, they just want to have good seats in Heaven; not make the world a better place for everyone but to make their afterlife better.
2013-09-01 01:45:16 PM  
1 votes:

bigsteve3OOO: MithrandirBooga: bigsteve3OOO: If vaccines are effective then a few people not getting them should have zero effect on the rest of the vaccinated population.

WRONG.

FTFA:

"Typically, it's the fear that the combination measles-mumps-rubella, or MMR vaccine may have in some way contributed to the epidemic of autism - which has clearly been shown not to be true in study after study," Offit says. He says those who chose to skip vaccines cause serious ripple effects.

There are hundreds of thousands of people in the United States who can't get vaccinated because they're undergoing medical treatment or are too young, for example.

But people who omit vaccinations for whatever reason should only be exposed to vaccinated people therefore no risk.



You must be trolling, because nobody can possibly be this stupid.

bigsteve3OOO: MithrandirBooga: bigsteve3OOO: If vaccines are effective then a few people not getting them should have zero effect on the rest of the vaccinated population.

WRONG.

FTFA:

"Typically, it's the fear that the combination measles-mumps-rubella, or MMR vaccine may have in some way contributed to the epidemic of autism - which has clearly been shown not to be true in study after study," Offit says. He says those who chose to skip vaccines cause serious ripple effects.

There are hundreds of thousands of people in the United States who can't get vaccinated because they're undergoing medical treatment or are too young, for example.

But people who omit vaccinations for whatever reason should only be exposed to vaccinated people therefore no risk.


0/10. I did not enjoy my trolling experience with this troll at all. I would not utilize his services again. Caveat Emptor.
2013-09-01 01:44:24 PM  
1 votes:

Coming on a Bicycle: You don't die from Measles. Or well, hardly anyone dies from Measles. I mean, my kids are vaccinated as well, but certain things in modern day medicine are simply luxury, and that's not bad. But at least be so fair as to acknowledge that, and let's not pretend some parents are complicit in causing the Second Plague here.


That is because we have vaccines. Before then it had a 5% death rate. There was a 33% rate of complications including pneumonia, very deadly before antibiotics, hearing loss, and seizures.
2013-09-01 01:44:23 PM  
1 votes:

bigsteve3OOO: Seems like praying to your god of science has not helped you. Perhaps a different god would.


Seriously?
2013-09-01 01:44:00 PM  
1 votes:

nmrsnr: MithrandirBooga: bigsteve3OOO: If vaccines are effective then a few people not getting them should have zero effect on the rest of the vaccinated population.WRONG.

No, he's right. It has zero affect on the vaccinated population. You pointed out unvaccinated people, though they are unvaccinated by necessity, not by choice.

That's really the point, these parents don't just endanger their children (which is bad enough) but they also endanger people who cannot, for whatever reason, be vaccinated. Their decision has no bearing on me, a healthy vaccinated person. But I'm not so selfish as to only care about myself.


Vaccines aren't 100% effective. It's possible to contract a disease for which you've been vaccinated, just much less likely. Herd immunity works because even a marginally effective vaccine, if applied to an entire population, will drastically reduce each individuals likelihood of encountering someone carrying the pathogen being vaccinated against.
2013-09-01 01:43:05 PM  
1 votes:

Mister Peejay: 150-200 years ago, I probably wouldn't have lived past childhood, or if I did, I would have been labeled a moron or something because I can't see six inches in front of my face.

/happy little cyborg


You do realize that 150-200 years ago, glasses did exist, right? They aren't necessarily a modern invention.
2013-09-01 01:42:30 PM  
1 votes:

gilgigamesh: "So I'm going to tell you what the facts are, and the facts are the facts, but then we know the truth. That always overcomes facts," she has said.

I love, love, love that that is an actual quote.

You just can't write self-parody that unconsciously witty, You just can't.


Maybe God's plan involves using these people as an example for everyone else: 'Don't be this stupid.'
2013-09-01 01:42:04 PM  
1 votes:

gilgigamesh: "So I'm going to tell you what the facts are, and the facts are the facts, but then we know the truth. That always overcomes facts," she has said.

I love, love, love that that is an actual quote.

You just can't write self-parody that unconsciously witty, You just can't.


What the good Reverend Snotbrains here has done is actually quite cunning. He applied the rules of politics to science. In politics, you can tell people the facts - the verifiable knowledge - without revealing the truth of your intents, goals, motivations, etc. In science, the facts ARE the truth. Everything else is spin.
2013-09-01 01:39:46 PM  
1 votes:

nmrsnr: MithrandirBooga: bigsteve3OOO: If vaccines are effective then a few people not getting them should have zero effect on the rest of the vaccinated population.WRONG.

No, he's right. It has zero affect on the vaccinated population. You pointed out unvaccinated people, though they are unvaccinated by necessity, not by choice.

That's really the point, these parents don't just endanger their children (which is bad enough) but they also endanger people who cannot, for whatever reason, be vaccinated. Their decision has no bearing on me, a healthy vaccinated person. But I'm not so selfish as to only care about myself.



When you're all done feeling superior, you might want to look up how vaccines actually work, and why the bolded part isn't true.
2013-09-01 01:38:33 PM  
1 votes:

sno man: Benevolent Misanthrope: Earlier this week crowds flooded in for regular services. Rose Mwangi had her Bible in hand, and said she's not worried.
 

"Because I know Jesus is a healer, so I know he's covered us with the blood," Mwangi says. "There's no place for fear."

"The concerns we have had are primarily with very young children who have family history of autism and with bundling too many immunizations at one time," she [the pastor] said.
 

"You don't take the word of the guy that's trying to give the shot about what's good and what isn't," he [pastor's father, noted nutbag Kenneth Copland] said.

And Christians wonder why the rest of us think of them as a bunch of servile f*ckwits.

Funny how the take the word of the Pastor, though.


Well, the Pastor offers them truth. The medics just offer pesky, dirty facts.
2013-09-01 01:37:33 PM  
1 votes:

Tigger: Ideas as stupid as these eventually eliminate the individuals who support them. It just takes too farking long.


The problem is that, especially with stuff like infectious diseases, these morons put the rest of us at risk.
2013-09-01 01:34:34 PM  
1 votes:

lokis_mentor: It's a church in Texas.  Someone call Janet Reno. She'll fix it.


90% of this crowd won't get your reference without googling Janet Reno.
2013-09-01 01:32:51 PM  
1 votes:
The truth is that you got your facts wrong.
2013-09-01 01:32:00 PM  
1 votes:
Things will really get interesting when we start to take matters into our own hands at the design level, DNA-wise.  Tons of fairly simple DNA mods are just waiting to be made, I'm betting.  Turn on all sorts of suppressed traits.  Muscle growth/density alone should be an easy one to crack, future humans should all be at least as strong as chimpanzees.
2013-09-01 01:31:17 PM  
1 votes:

Gergesa: cause I know Jesus is a healer, so I know he's covered us with the blood," Mwangi says.

I think she may be a worshiper of Khorne.


MORE BLOOD FOR MY KHORNE FLAKES.
2013-09-01 01:30:26 PM  
1 votes:
cause I know Jesus is a healer, so I know he's covered us with the blood," Mwangi says.

I think she may be a worshiper of Khorne.
2013-09-01 01:26:04 PM  
1 votes:
and he preaches a prosperity gospel message, why does this not surprise me
2013-09-01 01:25:43 PM  
1 votes:

Foxxinnia: jayhawk88: "Because I know Jesus is a healer, so I know he's covered us with the blood," Mwangi says. "There's no place for fear."

And if she were to contract measles, that would just be God testing her faith and giving her an opportunity to get closer to Him.

How did our species get to the point it has with all these fatalist farks around?


Rampant overbreeding. The death of a 40 year old who has pumped out 10 crotchfruit is irrelevant if only three of them make it to 40 themselves and pump out three kids each. The net gain is significant, and Heaven gets a new tranche of harpists...or whatever those dummies are supposed to do post-discorporation.
2013-09-01 01:25:03 PM  
1 votes:

vpb: There actually is a theory called dysgenics that proposes that people are becoming less healthy because harmful mutations don't die out because of modern medicine.


This.

Hell, just look at how many people have horrible eyesight today.

150-200 years ago, I probably wouldn't have lived past childhood, or if I did, I would have been labeled a moron or something because I can't see six inches in front of my face.

/happy little cyborg
2013-09-01 01:22:00 PM  
1 votes:
That's a very strong denial of reality. Think they'd wake up if one if their kids died from something preventable, or just say "God's will." Over and over again to the parents grieving for their dead child?
2013-09-01 01:19:17 PM  
1 votes:

trainershark: vpb: There actually is a theory called dysgenics that proposes that people are becoming less healthy because harmful mutations don't die out because of modern medicine.

To say that a mutation is harmful is to make a value judgement, since even some "harmful" mutations impart a benefit. Sickle-cell carriers, for example, are somewhat resistant to malaria.


I'll stick to Gin and Tonic thanks.
2013-09-01 01:12:50 PM  
1 votes:

vpb: There actually is a theory called dysgenics that proposes that people are becoming less healthy because harmful mutations don't die out because of modern medicine.


A trip to a suburban mall will validate large chunks of this theory once one has observed the large chunks waddling to the checkouts.
2013-09-01 01:02:21 PM  
1 votes:

Benevolent Misanthrope: Lionel Mandrake: Benevolent Misanthrope: "You don't take the word of the guy that's trying to give the shot about what's good and what isn't," he [pastor's father, noted nutbag Kenneth Copland] said.

You'd think a prosperity theologian would want his suckers - er, congregants - to stay healthy.  It's hard to convince corpses that Jesus loves rich people most of all, and that the first step to becoming rich is robust tithing.

Of course, if you can get them to include the Church in their wills...ka-ching!!  I mean, hallelujah!!

You just hit the nail on the head.  My maternal grandparents were manipulated by an unscrupulous pastor into that very thing.  It's pro forma in many churches (every one I've ever seen, actually) to play upon people's fear of death, remind them of their sins, and convince them that their god will be pleased with them in the afterlife if they prove their love for him in the here and now by signing their estate over to the church.

Buncha farking parasites.


My grandparents paid their 10% before taxes/retirement funds then 10% again as it came out. I think the church even asked for 10% of the life insurance payouts after grandpa died. Mormons are serious about their tithes.
2013-09-01 12:55:31 PM  
1 votes:
If I weren't agnostic i'd be praying that this guy gets struck down by lightning.
2013-09-01 12:12:58 PM  
1 votes:
Are Jenny McCarthy and Rob Schneider among their faithful congregation?
2013-09-01 12:12:31 PM  
1 votes:

vpb: Tigger: The rate of human evolution actually appears to be accelerating. Despite the well-argued claims of a cult comedy's opening credits.

No, It's actual biology, despite the fact that some guy used the idea to make a movie.

Besides, it's not too hard to figure out that someone with a fatal genetic flaw who is able to survive and breed because of modern medicine will pass on his genetic condition instead of becoming a genetic dead end.


Yes but it's not actually happening. Because it is about a million times more complex than a) wikipedia article b) 'it's not too hard to figure out'.

If you're actually interested this article provides a very superficial overview of the complex interplay between genetic cultural and environmental interplay that is positively affecting the rate of human evolution.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=culture-speeds-up-h um an-evolution

We've known for years that population level genetic variations cannot be sufficiently explained by a simple 'fittest phenotype survives" approach: Kin selection, reciprocal altruism and cooperation all have an impact, and that's just for starters.
2013-09-01 12:06:28 PM  
1 votes:

vpb: There is no natural selection anymore. Stupidity has become survivable because modern society will provide food and medical treatment.


notsureifserious.jpg
2013-09-01 11:57:24 AM  
1 votes:
Saw this biatch on the morning news last week...

Scared the crap out of my daughter when I started screaming at the screen.
2013-09-01 11:42:04 AM  
1 votes:

Peki: Tigger: Benevolent Misanthrope: Earlier this week crowds flooded in for regular services. Rose Mwangi had her Bible in hand, and said she's not worried.
 

"Because I know Jesus is a healer, so I know he's covered us with the blood," Mwangi says. "There's no place for fear."

"The concerns we have had are primarily with very young children who have family history of autism and with bundling too many immunizations at one time," she [the pastor] said.
 

"You don't take the word of the guy that's trying to give the shot about what's good and what isn't," he [pastor's father, noted nutbag Kenneth Copland] said.

And Christians wonder why the rest of us think of them as a bunch of servile f*ckwits.

Ideas as stupid as these eventually eliminate the individuals who support them. It just takes too farking long.

And they breed in the meantime. Darwin doesn't always reward the smartest, just the most successful at breeding.


It's not a simple as 'the less fit can now survive'. We eventually get rid of the idiots. It just takes a really long time. Took a thousand years to get these people out of government in Europe but they are now essentially relegated to fringe loony positions. Hopefully that takes less time in the US.
 
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