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(NPR)   Pastor preaching against vaccinations at megachurch, which is now the site of a measles outbreak: "So I'm going to tell you what the facts are and the facts are the facts but then we know the truth, that always overcomes facts"   ( npr.org) divider line
    More: Followup, Weekend Edition Sunday, vaccinations, outbreaks, measles, Children's Hospital of Philadelphia, MMR vaccine, sermons, truth  
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15025 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Sep 2013 at 1:04 PM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-01 05:27:13 PM  

LouDobbsAwaaaay: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: I'm being persecuted? In what way?

Some people indulge others in this "explain my own post back to me" game.  I don't.


My post didn't insinuate that I was being persecuted at all. I pointed out how people treat two groups with the same opinion differently, and you apparently assumed I belonged to one of those groups. Most likely becaus you aren't very bright.
 
2013-09-01 05:28:01 PM  

mongbiohazard: Evolution does not mean that a population of organisms "get more intelligent" - it just means that they change. That change could also possibly take the form of them getting more stupid. That human evolution appears to be accelerating does not actually contradict the premise of that "cult comedy's opening credits" like you seem to be arguing it does.


NO ONE IS SAYING THAT.

The original claim was that natural selection is dead.  That's something that internet hipsters who don't understand evolution say in order to make themselves feel smarter.  Evolution and natural selection are working just fine, as the people who understand evolution have explained over and over in this thread.  It doesn't matter whether the results turn out to be progressive or regressive because evolution only operates in the now.
 
2013-09-01 05:32:27 PM  

Mentat: NO ONE IS SAYING THAT.


Except, you know, in contextthe guy I was responding to was. That's why I quoted his whole post and responded with that. Save your knee-jerk for someone else.
 
2013-09-01 05:36:11 PM  

Kumana Wanalaia: God is a part of us. It is not a magic sky wizard, it is an aspect of the mind.

People said this thousands of years ago and this is the age where we will prove it.


I like that idea.

here's mine:  God is the universal energy that is the entirety of existence.  So when we die, we go "back" to that universal energy which is "heaven"..  so we essentially "join" with God when our conscious existence ends.
 
gja
2013-09-01 05:37:28 PM  

Mentat: mongbiohazard: Evolution does not mean that a population of organisms "get more intelligent" - it just means that they change. That change could also possibly take the form of them getting more stupid. That human evolution appears to be accelerating does not actually contradict the premise of that "cult comedy's opening credits" like you seem to be arguing it does.

NO ONE IS SAYING THAT.

The original claim was that natural selection is dead.  That's something that internet hipsters who don't understand evolution say in order to make themselves feel smarter.  Evolution and natural selection are working just fine, as the people who understand evolution have explained over and over in this thread.  It doesn't matter whether the results turn out to be progressive or regressive because evolution only operates in the now.


31.media.tumblr.comView Full Size
 
2013-09-01 05:54:01 PM  

BadJazz: Saul T. Balzac: Saul T. Balzac:
THE DMV SKIPPED NUMBER 666!  It went straight from 664 665 to 667.

*facepalm*

Even the State of Georgia believes there's something wrong with the number 666!

FTFM

I saw a 666 XXX Oregon license plate a few days ago.  Made me smile.


s66256.gridserver.comView Full Size
 
2013-09-01 05:54:25 PM  
What a wanker.
 
2013-09-01 05:57:03 PM  
Kenneth Copeland Word of Faith churches are some of the worst Prosperity Theology shillers you'll encounter.  The Waterford, CT IFWC is a known group of local criminals.
 
2013-09-01 05:58:47 PM  

AeAe: Kumana Wanalaia: God is a part of us. It is not a magic sky wizard, it is an aspect of the mind.

People said this thousands of years ago and this is the age where we will prove it.

I like that idea.

here's mine:  God is the universal energy that is the entirety of existence.  So when we die, we go "back" to that universal energy which is "heaven"..  so we essentially "join" with God when our conscious existence ends.


So God is not a conscious being and therefore cannot influence anything one way or the other, so why pray to it?  Or on the other hand, why not pray to microwave radiation, or dark energy?
 
2013-09-01 06:07:19 PM  

lokis_mentor: It's a church in Texas.  Someone call Janet Reno. She'll fix it.


Is it wrong I laughed at this?
 
2013-09-01 06:08:18 PM  

ex-nuke: The FARK headline was pretty good, it sort of reminds me of Democrats Anti-Gun folks talking about gun control.


FTFY, I'm a Democrat that completely agrees with the corrected version of your statement.
 
2013-09-01 06:11:17 PM  

mongbiohazard: Mentat: NO ONE IS SAYING THAT.

Except, you know, in contextthe guy I was responding to was. That's why I quoted his whole post and responded with that. Save your knee-jerk for someone else.


No, he wasn't saying that at all.  Nothing in his original quote implied that.  He said that the rate of evolution in human populations is increasing, and that's correct.  That doesn't imply progress, it's simply a statement of fact.  I'm sorry you have trouble understanding this.
 
2013-09-01 06:12:24 PM  

Mentat: Coming on a Bicycle: You don't die from Measles. Or well, hardly anyone dies from Measles. I mean, my kids are vaccinated as well, but certain things in modern day medicine are simply luxury, and that's not bad. But at least be so fair as to acknowledge that, and let's not pretend some parents are complicit in causing the Second Plague here.

You know measles isn't the only disease out there, right?  You know people still get bubonic plague, right?


Should we vaccinate for bubonic plague?
 
2013-09-01 06:19:19 PM  

The Southern Dandy: AeAe: Kumana Wanalaia: God is a part of us. It is not a magic sky wizard, it is an aspect of the mind.

People said this thousands of years ago and this is the age where we will prove it.

I like that idea.

here's mine:  God is the universal energy that is the entirety of existence.  So when we die, we go "back" to that universal energy which is "heaven"..  so we essentially "join" with God when our conscious existence ends.

So God is not a conscious being and therefore cannot influence anything one way or the other, so why pray to it?  Or on the other hand, why not pray to microwave radiation, or dark energy?


Why pray at all?  What does that accomplish?  You think if you pray to God for a horse you'll get one?
 
2013-09-01 06:19:56 PM  
The best remedy for a weasles outbreak is lots of .22s and poison.
 
2013-09-01 06:24:00 PM  

drp: Something about how curing that condition would harm the rest of us, who would then not have the cultural perspective and count-our-blessings gratitude that comes from having a bunch of people with preventable mental retardation all around us?


No, but what I was actually trying to argue was more complicated than I could articulate at the time, which is why (if I remember correctly), I didn't come back to that thread. I'd dug a hole I knew I wouldn't be able to get out of, and by the time I tried, Fark would have (and did) twist it into something way different from what I intended. *shrug* It's the internet. It happens.

drp:   I mean, if trisomy 21 isn't a "defect" as you claim, then surely measles isn't either.


Even if I were as dumb as you think I am, I'd still know there's a difference between a genetic mutation and a virus.

drp: as long as it's someone else's kid, well, then for you it's just a learning opportunity and slice of culture.


And that was a great example of today's winner of assumption junction. You have no idea what my living situation is, whether or not I myself am "differently abled" or a genetic mutant, or whether I deal with such people on a daily basis. I'm not going to enlighten you, but trust me it's not nearly the cheery educational PBS documentary you seem to think it might be.

ON TOPIC, I'm of two minds about vaccines. On the one hand, the WHO schedule looks a little obscene. On the other hand, how many germs attack a baby the second she's out of the womb? On the other hand, do I really trust pharmaceutical companies to not put in additives or chemicals when they aren't really sure or don't want to admit to the public what the dangers are? Unfortunately, the idea of "informed consumption" in the U.S. is laughable, because you can't trust any of the information coming from anyone, doctor, Big Pharma, WHO, left-wing anti-vaccinating Jenny McCarthy-clone, or Aunt Jemima who's idea of vaccinating was throwing the kids in the swamp for 8 hours.

We need to be demanding better information. Not arguing over whether or not vaccines are a good idea.
 
2013-09-01 06:27:34 PM  

AeAe: The Southern Dandy: AeAe: Kumana Wanalaia: God is a part of us. It is not a magic sky wizard, it is an aspect of the mind.

People said this thousands of years ago and this is the age where we will prove it.

I like that idea.

here's mine:  God is the universal energy that is the entirety of existence.  So when we die, we go "back" to that universal energy which is "heaven"..  so we essentially "join" with God when our conscious existence ends.

So God is not a conscious being and therefore cannot influence anything one way or the other, so why pray to it?  Or on the other hand, why not pray to microwave radiation, or dark energy?

Why pray at all?  What does that accomplish?  You think if you pray to God for a horse you'll get one?


It makes people feel better about themselves.
 
2013-09-01 06:31:06 PM  

SilentStrider: If I weren't agnostic i'd be praying that this guy gets struck down by lightning.


It's for people like this that I maintain a nominal belief in god.
 
2013-09-01 06:33:51 PM  

FunkOut: Mentat: Coming on a Bicycle: You don't die from Measles. Or well, hardly anyone dies from Measles. I mean, my kids are vaccinated as well, but certain things in modern day medicine are simply luxury, and that's not bad. But at least be so fair as to acknowledge that, and let's not pretend some parents are complicit in causing the Second Plague here.

You know measles isn't the only disease out there, right?  You know people still get bubonic plague, right?

Should we vaccinate for bubonic plague?


Because you don't vaccinate for bacterial infections.
 
2013-09-01 06:34:20 PM  

DoctorWhat: I'm sad that no one has photoshopped the picture in TFA to say "Measle Mountain Church".


Meh, don't have to.  The eagle on the right of the banner is flipping the bird to science, modern medicine, and all other libtardo wordly things of that ilk.

media.npr.orgView Full Size
 
2013-09-01 06:39:33 PM  

mongbiohazard: Evolution does not mean that a population of organisms "get more intelligent" - it just means that they change. That change could also possibly take the form of them getting more stupid.


Yes, but evolution driven by natural selection tends to make organisms more fit to compete for mates, rather than just changing in an unhelpful direction.

The Idiocracy hypothesis is based on two bogus premises.  The first is that intelligence is inherited, which is only partially true.  The second is that dumber people reproduce more than smarter people.  In reality, intelligence is a significant advantage to reproduction.

People only think the opposite is true lower socioeconomic classes have higher rates of reproduction, and people in the higher classes confuse class with intelligence.
 
2013-09-01 06:40:56 PM  

TheRameres: FunkOut: Mentat: Coming on a Bicycle: You don't die from Measles. Or well, hardly anyone dies from Measles. I mean, my kids are vaccinated as well, but certain things in modern day medicine are simply luxury, and that's not bad. But at least be so fair as to acknowledge that, and let's not pretend some parents are complicit in causing the Second Plague here.

You know measles isn't the only disease out there, right?  You know people still get bubonic plague, right?

Should we vaccinate for bubonic plague?

Because you don't vaccinate for bacterial infections.


Really?  Somebody tell the CDC.  They're spreading misinformation.

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/hib/

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/pneumo/

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/diphtheria/default.htm

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/pertussis/default.htm

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/mening/default.htm

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/typhoid/default.htm

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/tb/default.htm

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/anthrax/default.htm
 
2013-09-01 06:41:01 PM  
So, apparently the fact is that the Good Lord really dislikes folks with smooth skins, and the truth is he really hates folks with compromised immune systems and small children...

That's the lesson I'm getting from this.

Seriously Christians, I respect a good many of you, and your zeal and compassion, but it's folks like this that really helped me to return to my mother's faith, and seek the Middle Path...
 
2013-09-01 06:42:52 PM  

whatshisname: AeAe: The Southern Dandy: AeAe: Kumana Wanalaia: God is a part of us. It is not a magic sky wizard, it is an aspect of the mind.

People said this thousands of years ago and this is the age where we will prove it.

I like that idea.

here's mine:  God is the universal energy that is the entirety of existence.  So when we die, we go "back" to that universal energy which is "heaven"..  so we essentially "join" with God when our conscious existence ends.

So God is not a conscious being and therefore cannot influence anything one way or the other, so why pray to it?  Or on the other hand, why not pray to microwave radiation, or dark energy?

Why pray at all?  What does that accomplish?  You think if you pray to God for a horse you'll get one?

It makes people feel better about themselves.


This is true.  I saw this cartoon that said "Prayer gives people the feeling that they are doing something while accomplishing nothing" .. or something like that.
 
2013-09-01 06:43:52 PM  

vpb: Tigger: Ideas as stupid as these eventually eliminate the individuals who support them. It just takes too farking long.

There is no natural selection anymore.  Stupidity has become survivable because modern society will provide food and medical treatment.


Um, yes there is still natural selection for humans. It is arguable that since the advent of large population centers, with their communicable diseases that resistance to disease has become the primary human selector. Some individuals survive plagues and diseases, and those who don't are selected out. Also, whole populations can be affected, like native American populations once exposed to European diseases.
 
2013-09-01 06:44:56 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: LouDobbsAwaaaay: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: I'm being persecuted? In what way?

Some people indulge others in this "explain my own post back to me" game.  I don't.

My post didn't insinuate that I was being persecuted at all. I pointed out how people treat two groups with the same opinion differently, and you apparently assumed I belonged to one of those groups. Most likely becaus you aren't very bright.


Except that it doesn't matter who's bringing the idiotic anti-vaxxer idea forward; whether they're a super-fundamentalist preacher or a super left-wing Hollywood celebrity, if they espouse anti-vax propaganda the only people who take them seriously are those who are already anti-vaxxers.  I see just as much scorn heaped upon Jenny Farking McCarthy as I see directed at this pastor.
 
2013-09-01 06:46:50 PM  

lack of warmth: Coincidently, a couple months ago, I was in attendance for a couple services where the speaking priesthood either works as a medical doctor or a science college professor. With all these discussions of prayer verses medical science, I can't help but recall the stories coming from a medical doctor of how prayer saved him from a life of being permanently crippled as a kid. Why not take both prayer and medicine serious? I'm with OtherLittleGuy on this.


Because when it has been tested prayer doesn't work. God is for the gullible and prayer works the same way as letters to Santa. I'll take prayer seriously when, never mind, no I won't, doing so would show me to be stupid.
 
2013-09-01 06:51:03 PM  

Parthenogenetic: TheRameres: FunkOut: Mentat: Coming on a Bicycle: You don't die from Measles. Or well, hardly anyone dies from Measles. I mean, my kids are vaccinated as well, but certain things in modern day medicine are simply luxury, and that's not bad. But at least be so fair as to acknowledge that, and let's not pretend some parents are complicit in causing the Second Plague here.

You know measles isn't the only disease out there, right?  You know people still get bubonic plague, right?

Should we vaccinate for bubonic plague?

Because you don't vaccinate for bacterial infections.

Really?  Somebody tell the CDC.  They're spreading misinformation.

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/hib/

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/pneumo/

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/diphtheria/default.htm

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/pertussis/default.htm

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/mening/default.htm

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/typhoid/default.htm

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/tb/default.htm

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/anthrax/default.htm


I'd like to point out the Anthrax vaccine is not nearly as effective as you would believe. If memory serves correct from when both my brothers got vaccinated in the Army, you still have a 6 in 7 chance of getting Anthrax.
 
2013-09-01 06:51:55 PM  

Lachwen: sterility.


Silver lining time!
 
2013-09-01 06:52:59 PM  

Peki: ....


Dude, you're arguing with someone who's handle is "derp."
 
gja
2013-09-01 06:53:49 PM  

Xcott: mongbiohazard: Evolution does not mean that a population of organisms "get more intelligent" - it just means that they change. That change could also possibly take the form of them getting more stupid.

Yes, but evolution driven by natural selection tends to make organisms more fit to compete for mates, rather than just changing in an unhelpful direction.

The Idiocracy hypothesis is based on two bogus premises.  The first is that intelligence is inherited, which is only partially true.  The second is that dumber people reproduce more than smarter people.  In reality, intelligence is a significant advantage to reproduction.

People only think the opposite is true lower socioeconomic classes have higher rates of reproduction, and people in the higher classes confuse class with intelligence.


I can verify undeniably that having money does NOT equate to those who possess it having class. Sadly, some of the most well-heeled people I know are some of the most disgusting people I have had the displeasure of having to deal with. Additionally, some of them make me wonder how the hell they are able to clothe themselves sans assistance. Some are blathering idiots. Others make me fearful in that they are driving cars about, as they routinely wreck them in glorious fashion.

On the other hand, I recently went to Indiana. When I travel I tend to 'go native' and eat/spend at local places rather than chains who couldn't care less about my patronage of their establishments. I did so on this trip and ate at a place where it was evident the place was staffed by almost all family and friends. What ensued was a dinner with folks who surely made very little for a living but were as gracious as could possibly be. The owner, a Guyanese gent who emigrated here in '82,  had some of the most educated views on macro-economics I have ever heard outside a lecture hall at university. The common folk are the best.

Evolution needs to hurry the hell up. The dumbness just ain't dieing off fast enough.
 
2013-09-01 07:00:27 PM  

MithrandirBooga: bigsteve3OOO: If vaccines are effective then a few people not getting them should have zero effect on the rest of the vaccinated population.

WRONG.

FTFA:

"Typically, it's the fear that the combination measles-mumps-rubella, or MMR vaccine may have in some way contributed to the epidemic of autism - which has clearly been shown not to be true in study after study," Offit says. He says those who chose to skip vaccines cause serious ripple effects.

There are hundreds of thousands of people in the United States who can't get vaccinated because they're undergoing medical treatment or are too young, for example.


Also, vaccines are never 100% effective. So there is another significant population group that benefits from universal vaccination.
 
2013-09-01 07:00:40 PM  

Parthenogenetic: TheRameres: FunkOut: Mentat: Coming on a Bicycle: You don't die from Measles. Or well, hardly anyone dies from Measles. I mean, my kids are vaccinated as well, but certain things in modern day medicine are simply luxury, and that's not bad. But at least be so fair as to acknowledge that, and let's not pretend some parents are complicit in causing the Second Plague here.

You know measles isn't the only disease out there, right?  You know people still get bubonic plague, right?

Should we vaccinate for bubonic plague?

Because you don't vaccinate for bacterial infections.

Really?  Somebody tell the CDC.  They're spreading misinformation.

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/hib/

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/pneumo/

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/diphtheria/default.htm

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/pertussis/default.htm

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/mening/default.htm

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/typhoid/default.htm

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/tb/default.htm

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/anthrax/default.htm


I stand corrected.

Learned something new and it's not even a school day!
 
2013-09-01 07:02:02 PM  

Don't Troll Me Bro!: Peki: ....

Dude, you're arguing with someone who's handle is "derp."


And you're on Fark. Both just as productive. :)
 
2013-09-01 07:03:12 PM  

jayphat: I'd like to point out the Anthrax vaccine is not nearly as effective as you would believe. If memory serves correct from when both my brothers got vaccinated in the Army, you still have a 6 in 7 chance of getting Anthrax.


To be fair, the Army is pretty metal.

metal-archives.comView Full Size
 
2013-09-01 07:04:44 PM  

whatshisname: It makes people feel better about themselves.


That praying makes people feel better about themselves is the best argument against prayer I can think of. If you want to feel better about yourself do something constructive (like make fun of religious folk on Fark) don't pray, that only gives you undeserved good feelings
 
2013-09-01 07:19:31 PM  

gja: Not all of us who identify as Christian are so universally idiotic.


Like all other mental illnesses and defects, religious belief has a spectrum of severity. You might think you lie on the lower end of the spectrum, like a highly functioning autistic or addict, but you still suffer from the same delusion and irrational beliefs as the full blown fundamentalists. 

In fact, I think it's very telling that the fundamentalists are proof for religious faith being a bad thing. if your religion has a problem with its fundamentalists, more than likely it's an issue with the fundamental beliefs and way of thinking your religion promotes.
 
2013-09-01 07:21:12 PM  

Peki: Don't Troll Me Bro!: Peki: ....

Dude, you're arguing with someone who's handle is "derp."

And you're on Fark. Both just as productive. :)


Smart'd and Funny'd..... Well played.
 
2013-09-01 07:24:33 PM  

AeAe: Kumana Wanalaia: God is a part of us. It is not a magic sky wizard, it is an aspect of the mind.

People said this thousands of years ago and this is the age where we will prove it.

I like that idea.

here's mine:  God is the universal energy that is the entirety of existence.  So when we die, we go "back" to that universal energy which is "heaven"..  so we essentially "join" with God when our conscious existence ends.


the force? ok sure Jedi is an official recognized religion somewhere
 
2013-09-01 07:27:25 PM  
I thought the headline was another fark fake "quote", just wow.

/welcome to conservative logic.
 
2013-09-01 07:31:35 PM  
I have a question in all of this. Why is it that the "churches" are being ignored when they practice medicine without a license? Offering up opinions about medical practice or giving out medical advice IS practicing medicine no matter how much you try to rationalize it. Are these preachers Doctors? Do they have any actual medical information? Or are they merely breaking the Law, like any other huckster looking for an edge over the rubes to keep their attention focused up front while the dips work the back of the crowd.

Seems to me that there are some serious Medical Ethics issues here and likely some legal problems with this.
 
gja
2013-09-01 07:31:55 PM  

Kali-Yuga: gja: Not all of us who identify as Christian are so universally idiotic.

Like all other mental illnesses and defects, religious belief has a spectrum of severity. You might think you lie on the lower end of the spectrum, like a highly functioning autistic or addict, but you still suffer from the same delusion and irrational beliefs as the full blown fundamentalists. 

In fact, I think it's very telling that the fundamentalists are proof for religious faith being a bad thing. if your religion has a problem with its fundamentalists, more than likely it's an issue with the fundamental beliefs and way of thinking your religion promotes.


You assume, and like to generalize in the extreme. So your dismissive attitude shows your lack of cognitive ability where something does not fit neatly into your preconceived hole and molds.
I have had this discussion in numerous other threads. One can be a Christian person without wholesale and blind belief in the 'organized' religion of it.

Don't assume that I will just leave you be on this. You have asserted I have a mental illness. That is both asinine and offensive on many levels.
 
2013-09-01 07:32:40 PM  

Lionel Mandrake: Shirley Ujest: Is there a vaccine for twerking?

One bullet.  Apply directly to the forehead.


I would suggest two immediate booster shots, one to the head and one to the heart, just to be sure that the immunization is effective.
 
2013-09-01 07:34:08 PM  

Aldon: I thought the headline was another fark fake "quote", just wow.

/welcome to conservative Fundamentalist Christian logic.


FTFY. Please don't lump my fiscal conservatism with these idiots.
 
2013-09-01 07:34:31 PM  
These idiots are harming people.
They need to be prosecuted to the fullest extent.
 
2013-09-01 07:40:52 PM  

snocone: These idiots are harming people.
They need to be prosecuted to the fullest extent.


Freedom of religion is a landmine that no elected official would ever step on. As long as this is blanketed under the protection of religion, the precedence has been set.
 
gja
2013-09-01 07:42:20 PM  

PainfulItching: snocone: These idiots are harming people.
They need to be prosecuted to the fullest extent.

Freedom of religion is a landmine that no elected official would ever step on. As long as this is blanketed under the protection of religion, the precedence has been set.


^This^
It would equate to career suicide. An idea I admit I find not that unpleasant an outcome for most politicians.
 
2013-09-01 07:44:02 PM  

loonatic112358: AeAe: Kumana Wanalaia: God is a part of us. It is not a magic sky wizard, it is an aspect of the mind.

People said this thousands of years ago and this is the age where we will prove it.

I like that idea.

here's mine:  God is the universal energy that is the entirety of existence.  So when we die, we go "back" to that universal energy which is "heaven"..  so we essentially "join" with God when our conscious existence ends.

the force? ok sure Jedi is an official recognized religion somewhere


The Force?  Sure why not.  I'm not into labels.  George Carlin called it "The Big Electron".  Same idea.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFKLc6K8Ydo
 
2013-09-01 07:59:25 PM  

gja: One can be a Christian person without wholesale and blind belief in the 'organized' religion of it.



All religious faith is irrational
The contradictions, errors, and absurdities contained within the bible and other religious texts cannot be reconciled through the use of reason or logic.
In order to reconcile these errors, contradictions, and absurdities, believers must make a leap to faith
The leap to faith is a leap away from rationality. (See Kierkegaard among others)
All religious faith is irrational
Q.E.D.

Delusions are simply irrational beliefs, like religious faith, held with a high level of conviction and highly resistant to change even when the delusional person is exposed to forms of proof that contradict the belief.

Perhaps mental illness is the wrong term, a mental disorder is probably a more correct.   Like I said mental illnesses and disorders have a spectrum. If you truly are some sort of moderate christian, cherry-picking the few verses you like and ignoring the rest, you're just like that person who has just a slight case of OCD or ADD or whatever.

Delusional disorder isn't quite the same as other psychotic disorders either, it doesn't usually cause people to act too peculiar, other than perhaps engaging in some rituals to make themselves feel better, or making other life choices based on their delusional beliefs.  People with delusional disorder also are known to suffer from delusions like believing all of their actions are constantly monitored by some outside force that exerts supernatural forces to intervene in their lives.
 
2013-09-01 08:02:31 PM  

Coming on a Bicycle: You don't die from Measles. Or well, hardly anyone dies from Measles. I mean, my kids are vaccinated as well, but certain things in modern day medicine are simply luxury, and that's not bad. But at least be so fair as to acknowledge that, and let's not pretend some parents are complicit in causing the Second Plague here.


http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/whatifstop.htm#measles
 
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