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(NPR)   Pastor preaching against vaccinations at megachurch, which is now the site of a measles outbreak: "So I'm going to tell you what the facts are and the facts are the facts but then we know the truth, that always overcomes facts"   (npr.org) divider line 354
    More: Followup, Weekend Edition Sunday, vaccinations, outbreaks, measles, Children's Hospital of Philadelphia, MMR vaccine, sermons, truth  
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14978 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Sep 2013 at 1:04 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-01 03:36:31 PM
Don't feed the troll.
 
2013-09-01 03:37:16 PM
Is there a vaccine for twerking?
 
2013-09-01 03:37:41 PM

Benevolent Misanthrope: Earlier this week crowds flooded in for regular services. Rose Mwangi had her Bible in hand, and said she's not worried.
 

"Because I know Jesus is a healer, so I know he's covered us with the blood," Mwangi says. "There's no place for fear."

"The concerns we have had are primarily with very young children who have family history of autism and with bundling too many immunizations at one time," she [the pastor] said.
 

"You don't take the word of the guy that's trying to give the shot about what's good and what isn't," he [pastor's father, noted nutbag Kenneth Copland] said.

And Christians wonder why the rest of us think of them as a bunch of servile f*ckwits.


paint with a broad strokes much? there are literally tens of millions of Christians in the US but yeah one fringe group in Texas represents all of them.
 
2013-09-01 03:40:20 PM

Kumana Wanalaia: God is a part of us. It is not a magic sky wizard, it is an aspect of the mind.

People said this thousands of years ago and this is the age where we will prove it.



"If we smash in the skulls of these young virgins on a mountaintop our crops will grow better next year!"

"Every day the sun is carried across the sky in the back of a chariot!"

"The world is flat and carried on the back of a turtle!"

"Diseases are caused by evil spirits!"


Those are all things people said thousands of years ago. You're engaging in the logical fallacy of anappeal to ancient wisdom.

People said plenty of utterly idiotic things "thousands of years ago". Something simply being shiat people said a long time ago doesn't make it true, and in fact would give a higher likelihood of the opposite being that our sum total of knowledge has increased exponentially over the millennia by correcting old myths and building on successive generations of discovery and knowledge.
 
2013-09-01 03:40:31 PM

SuperNinjaToad: Benevolent Misanthrope: Earlier this week crowds flooded in for regular services. Rose Mwangi had her Bible in hand, and said she's not worried.
 

"Because I know Jesus is a healer, so I know he's covered us with the blood," Mwangi says. "There's no place for fear."

"The concerns we have had are primarily with very young children who have family history of autism and with bundling too many immunizations at one time," she [the pastor] said.
 

"You don't take the word of the guy that's trying to give the shot about what's good and what isn't," he [pastor's father, noted nutbag Kenneth Copland] said.

And Christians wonder why the rest of us think of them as a bunch of servile f*ckwits.

paint with a broad strokes much? there are literally tens of millions of Christians in the US but yeah one fringe group in Texas represents all of them.


Most of them are at church or eating chicken today.
 
2013-09-01 03:41:02 PM

GBB: [wp.patheos.com.s3.amazonaws.com image 480x543]


Bears repeating.
 
2013-09-01 03:44:09 PM

KrispyKritter: Benevolent Misanthrope: Earlier this week crowds flooded in for regular services. Rose Mwangi had her Bible in hand, and said she's not worried.
 

"Because I know Jesus is a healer, so I know he's covered us with the blood," Mwangi says. "There's no place for fear."

"The concerns we have had are primarily with very young children who have family history of autism and with bundling too many immunizations at one time," she [the pastor] said.
 

"You don't take the word of the guy that's trying to give the shot about what's good and what isn't," he [pastor's father, noted nutbag Kenneth Copland] said.

And Christians wonder why the rest of us think of them as a bunch of servile f*ckwits.

Measure all by the action of one. You're a straight thinker.


Ummm... are you honestly going to pretend that this is an unprecedented, isolated incident of the credulous being fleeced by the church?  Really?  Seriously?
 
2013-09-01 03:44:47 PM
I'm sad that no one has photoshopped the picture in TFA to say "Measle Mountain Church".
 
2013-09-01 03:44:58 PM

bigsteve3OOO: Because your science is not 100% effective and in some cases deadly; some people opt out.  You think they are fool.  I think they know statistics.


People who eschew vaccines because of either thoroughly debunked rumors/pseudo-science or because in their arrogant willful ignorance wish to put their deity to a foolish test rather than make use of the medicine and doctors he's provided ARE fools even if you are a believer in the supernatural.

The only thing you're proving in this thread is that you don't understand science, statistics OR theology and shouldn't be careless with the use of the word "fool".
 
2013-09-01 03:45:27 PM

SuperNinjaToad: Benevolent Misanthrope: Earlier this week crowds flooded in for regular services. Rose Mwangi had her Bible in hand, and said she's not worried.
 

"Because I know Jesus is a healer, so I know he's covered us with the blood," Mwangi says. "There's no place for fear."

"The concerns we have had are primarily with very young children who have family history of autism and with bundling too many immunizations at one time," she [the pastor] said.
 

"You don't take the word of the guy that's trying to give the shot about what's good and what isn't," he [pastor's father, noted nutbag Kenneth Copland] said.

And Christians wonder why the rest of us think of them as a bunch of servile f*ckwits.

paint with a broad strokes much? there are literally tens of millions of Christians in the US but yeah one fringe group in Texas represents all of them.


See my comment immediately previous.
 
2013-09-01 03:46:55 PM
"You don't take the word of the guy that's trying to give the shot about what's good and what isn't," he said.

The, uh, doctor? (I know doctors normally don't actually give shots...shut up.) I guess he is one of the smart people, which would put him on the "other" side, according to Rick "Foamy" Santorum. You don't want to just take the word of a guy on the other side. Our ignorance is at least as good as his knowledge.

MY EYES ARE WIDE OPEN...SHEEPLE. Yours should be too.
 
2013-09-01 03:48:59 PM

Benevolent Misanthrope: SuperNinjaToad: Benevolent Misanthrope: Earlier this week crowds flooded in for regular services. Rose Mwangi had her Bible in hand, and said she's not worried.
 

"Because I know Jesus is a healer, so I know he's covered us with the blood," Mwangi says. "There's no place for fear."

"The concerns we have had are primarily with very young children who have family history of autism and with bundling too many immunizations at one time," she [the pastor] said.
 

"You don't take the word of the guy that's trying to give the shot about what's good and what isn't," he [pastor's father, noted nutbag Kenneth Copland] said.

And Christians wonder why the rest of us think of them as a bunch of servile f*ckwits.

paint with a broad strokes much? there are literally tens of millions of Christians in the US but yeah one fringe group in Texas represents all of them.

See my comment immediately previous.


I agree it is not an isolated incident but it is far from mainstream Christian beliefs. Heck the church I go to has at least half a dozen physicians in our congregation.
 
2013-09-01 03:51:56 PM

PainfulItching: GrayGush: Coming on a Bicycle: You don't die from Measles. Or well, hardly anyone dies from Measles. I mean, my kids are vaccinated as well, but certain things in modern day medicine are simply luxury, and that's not bad. But at least be so fair as to acknowledge that, and let's not pretend some parents are complicit in causing the Second Plague here.

http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs286/en/
"Measles is a highly contagious, serious disease caused by a virus. In 1980, before widespread vaccination, measles caused an estimated 2.6 million deaths each year. "

Just because we do a decent job of keeping it from being a rampant plague, doesn't mean we should lessen the severity of its prevention.

And the symptoms, like fever - which was a major part of the deaths in the past, can be managed with over the counter meds. Antibiotics take care of any secondary infections. So for most it is survivable, with the assistance of some older "acceptable" medications. It's a matter of degree I guess.


Again, not farking true in the case of most vaccine-preventable diseases, and CERTAINLY not true in the case of measles.

Measles, in case you're not aware (and honestly most people aren't), is basically human rinderpest; cow rinderpest (which is now extinct outside of labs, thanks to a massive livestock immunisation program; the second disease we wiped out after smallpox) crossed over to humans sometime in the late Dark Ages to early Middle Ages, and also crossed over into dogs sometime in the late Middle Ages separately (as canine distemper).

Measles is a morbillivirus, and morbilliviruses tend to kill in four different ways:

a) Attacking the gastrointestinal system (common in ovine rinderpest aka "peste-de-petits-ruminants" and canine distemper as well as in regular rinderpest before we wiped it out)--basically wrecks the intestines and causes gastric bleeds and diarrhea.

b) Causing a general haemorrhagic fever (common in ovine rinderpest and (before we wiped it out) cow rinderpest; a common presentation of measles proper when isolated peoples are exposed to it for the first time (and apparently common when rinderpest crossed over into humans and became measles); common in canine distemper; common in phocine distemper (aka seal distemper); the typical presentation in lions that contract canine distemper).  Even the famous red rash of measles is a mild form of this--it's literally a haemorrhagic rash.

c) A general weakening of the immune system--not quite full-blown haemorrhagic fever but a lesser version of the same thing (happens in measles, EXTREMELY common in canine and phocine distemper, a typical presentation of the newly discovered cetacean morbillivirus (we don't technically know if it should be formally classified as "dolphin rinderpest", "dolphin distemper" or "dolphin measles" as we don't know which morbillivirus it's most closely related to--signs are pointing MAYBE to dolphin distemper, though).)

d) Morbilliviruses can actually cause their own explicit type of encephalitis--yes, the virus tends to DIRECTLY ATTACK THE BRAIN (TWO different encepalitides in humans--subacure sclerosing panencephalitis (uniformly fatal unless caught VERY early and requires lifetime treatment with ribavirin, progressive disease caused by reactivation of measles virus years after infection) and acute measles encephalitis; very common sequelae of canine distemper and ovine rinderpest resulting in permanent brain damage or death (to the point that if a dog with distemper is seizing it's considered to be a sign of a poor prognosis and euthanasia is recommended); a type of subacute sclerosing panencephalitis-like syndrome is known in canine distemper survivors that in its later stages is considered to be an indication for euthanasia; may be part of what's killing dolphins with cetacean morbillivirus/"dolphin distemper"; typical presentation of canine distemper in black-footed ferrets (which were almost wiped out in a distemper zoonotic--zoos have done much work to bring them back, and released ferrets are usually vaccinated for distemper), also happens in lions that contract canine distemper).

To my knowledge, I really don't know of any OTC medications available for disseminated bleeding, wreckage of the gastrointestinal tract (no, Imodium would not fix the malabsorption that occurs nor the ulceration), encephalitis, and wreckage of the immune system :D

/GET.  YOUR.  DAMN.  KIDS.  THE.  JAB.
//have been sick this weekend with a 100 degree fever and HOPING I haven't caught the damn flu before I could get the flu jab
 
2013-09-01 03:51:58 PM

mongbiohazard: bigsteve3OOO: Because your science is not 100% effective and in some cases deadly; some people opt out.  You think they are fool.  I think they know statistics.

People who eschew vaccines because of either thoroughly debunked rumors/pseudo-science or because in their arrogant willful ignorance wish to put their deity to a foolish test rather than make use of the medicine and doctors he's provided ARE fools even if you are a believer in the supernatural.

The only thing you're proving in this thread is that you don't understand science, statistics OR theology and shouldn't be careless with the use of the word "fool".


Yeah, Doctor Without Borders is making a mint immunizing people in SIerra Leone.
 
2013-09-01 03:53:17 PM

rekoil: vpb: There actually is a theory called dysgenics that proposes that people are becoming less healthy because harmful mutations don't die out because of modern medicine.

I think I've heard this theory before:


Going Under

Think you heard this all before
Now you're gonna hear some more
I know a place where dreams get crushed
Hopes are smashed but that ain't much
Voluntary experimentation
Going through soft core mutation
userserve-ak.last.fm
 
2013-09-01 03:55:43 PM

Trance354: Lionel Mandrake: Benevolent Misanthrope: "You don't take the word of the guy that's trying to give the shot about what's good and what isn't," he [pastor's father, noted nutbag Kenneth Copland] said.

You'd think a prosperity theologian would want his suckers - er, congregants - to stay healthy.  It's hard to convince corpses that Jesus loves rich people most of all, and that the first step to becoming rich is robust tithing.

Of course, if you can get them to include the Church in their wills...ka-ching!!  I mean, hallelujah!!

you know, I'll go back and read the rest of the comments, but I had to get this in quickly.

Some years back in NH, I used to listen to a religious talk radio network on the radio during long commutes to work.  I had them on the speed numbers right beside NPR, which was right beside the local metal station.  So when Metalica came on, I'd check NPR, then try and laugh my way through the fundy station for a while before going back to NPR or metal.  So one day I'm cruising though the channels and I hear one of the fundy pastors come on, and I recognize the voice.  He's on all the time.  He's relating a story where one of his flock is asking him how much he should give to the local church.  He says he gives 10% tithe, but he feels empty inside.  As though he had more to give.  Rather than asking for him to volunteer, to give of his time the greedy pastor shows his true colors and goes right for the pocketbook, telling this well-off flock-member that he should give more of his income, 20-30%.  To give until it hurts, for "That is the path to heaven."

yeah, right about there I lost my faith in organized religion.

/not in God, just the greed induced lust of the clergy


I so get that.  A priesthood man not serving God the way he promised to, is only serving himself.

Coincidently, a couple months ago, I was in attendance for a couple services where the speaking priesthood either works as a medical doctor or a science college professor.  With all these discussions of prayer verses medical science, I can't help but recall the stories coming from a medical doctor of how prayer saved him from a life of being permanently crippled as a kid.  Why not take both prayer and medicine serious?  I'm with OtherLittleGuy on this.
 
2013-09-01 03:57:40 PM
If it's truth you're looking for, Dr. Tyree's philosophy class is right down the hall.
 
2013-09-01 04:00:13 PM

Peki: Darwin doesn't always reward the smartest, just the most successful at breeding.


True.  But as far as humans go he does often punish the dumbest.
 
2013-09-01 04:00:21 PM

SuperNinjaToad: I agree it is not an isolated incident but it is far from mainstream Christian beliefs.


I disagree, I think it's a very natural progression to go from faith in God to faith healing to rejecting medical treatment so as not to demonstrate a lack of faith. The politics that have gotten baked into American Christianity aren't helping either, because it's thrown the ignorant-and-proud hicks in with devout Christians (insert joke about the circular Venn diagram here...) and together they've created a near-perfect storm of anti-intellectualism that's still gaining momentum as far as I can tell.

It's true not all Christians are scientifically backward-ass hicks. In fact, I'd even say the ones that are are a minority of all Christians. But...I also don't think it's as rare as you'd like to believe, and I think the problem's getting worse.

/Born and raised Christian, devout through college, attended church until about a year ago...highly skeptical these days.
 
2013-09-01 04:01:40 PM

Great Porn Dragon: PainfulItching: GrayGush: Coming on a Bicycle:


I'm not backing the anti-vax crowd by a far shot. I'm firmly behind medical science, but I also know that they do not have all the answers. Any doctor would admit that. But there is scientific evidence and anecdotal evidence. The second may become the first after extensive testing, but until then it is useless, unless there are no other options -AND- you are well informed about your body and the potential results.
 
2013-09-01 04:02:13 PM
I think it is funny that parents who refuse to get their kids vaccinated have been vaccinated themselves.

I work with a fat chick who is in her 30s who has an 7 year old brother because seems like her mom had one last good egg holding out and dropped the brat at a late age.

Mom, dad, and the entire family have been vaccinated, but the little sprig no.  They have decided to home school him and keep him away from the evil needles.

So this mom in her 50s has a high school education and the kids home "learnin" consists of video tapes and older sis taking the the tests for him.

He is always wheezing and sound like he has the whooping cough mixed with TB.

The kicker is that before I took my annual trip to Colombia most people were asking me to bring them coffee back, or chocolate, or a knick knack, this girl comes up to me and hands me a 100 dollar bill and says "buy all the antibiotics down there you can for that" She says that her little brother is often sick and that the doctor refuses to see him until he has had his shots, and she said the doctor was a Nazi.

I handed her mony back and said I was going to be supplying any meds, she could go do the doctor for that.
 
2013-09-01 04:04:05 PM

Shirley Ujest: Is there a vaccine for twerking?


One bullet.  Apply directly to the forehead.
 
2013-09-01 04:05:56 PM

bigsteve3OOO: Raw_fishFood: bigsteve3OOO: If vaccines are effective then a few people not getting them should have zero effect on the rest of the vaccinated population.

Herd immunity works by having everybody who can get vaccinated, well, get vaccinated. By greatly reducing the people who can get sick this protects the people who cannot get vaccinated for legitimate reasons, like being too young or weak immune systems.

When people don't get vaccinated despite not having any medical reason not to do so it not only makes the people who can't get vaccinated more vulnerable but gives the disease a chance to mutate and infect people who are only vaccinated against the original strain.

Seems like praying to your god of science has not helped you.  Perhaps a different god would.



The god of Eagle Mountain Church sure didn't.
 
2013-09-01 04:06:01 PM

Tigger: Peki: Tigger: Benevolent Misanthrope: Earlier this week crowds flooded in for regular services. Rose Mwangi had her Bible in hand, and said she's not worried.
 

"Because I know Jesus is a healer, so I know he's covered us with the blood," Mwangi says. "There's no place for fear."

"The concerns we have had are primarily with very young children who have family history of autism and with bundling too many immunizations at one time," she [the pastor] said.
 

"You don't take the word of the guy that's trying to give the shot about what's good and what isn't," he [pastor's father, noted nutbag Kenneth Copland] said.

And Christians wonder why the rest of us think of them as a bunch of servile f*ckwits.

Ideas as stupid as these eventually eliminate the individuals who support them. It just takes too farking long.

And they breed in the meantime. Darwin doesn't always reward the smartest, just the most successful at breeding.

It's not a simple as 'the less fit can now survive'. We eventually get rid of the idiots. It just takes a really long time. Took a thousand years to get these people out of government in Europe but they are now essentially relegated to fringe loony positions. Hopefully that takes less time in the US.


Maybe we can aggressively promote something that is beneficial or essential for survival as 'the mark of the beast'. Xtians will fall all over themselves trying to distance themselves... Any ideas?
 
2013-09-01 04:07:08 PM

PainfulItching: mongbiohazard: bigsteve3OOO: Because your science is not 100% effective and in some cases deadly; some people opt out.  You think they are fool.  I think they know statistics.

People who eschew vaccines because of either thoroughly debunked rumors/pseudo-science or because in their arrogant willful ignorance wish to put their deity to a foolish test rather than make use of the medicine and doctors he's provided ARE fools even if you are a believer in the supernatural.

The only thing you're proving in this thread is that you don't understand science, statistics OR theology and shouldn't be careless with the use of the word "fool".

Yeah, Doctor Without Borders is making a mint immunizing people in SIerra Leone.


The disheartening thing is that I am well aware of how sarcastic what you said is, but there are far too many people in America would would think you were being serious - and agree. And they vote. And they get elected to congress. And they get on the House Science Committee.

There's a reason that those people also tend to want to weaken public education, and oppose public higher education. Education tends to be an anathema to their beliefs, and more quality education makes it harder to brainwash successive generations in to perpetuating their willful ignorance. Whether they admit it or not, I think they know this - even if only subconsciously (and often it's not subconscious I think).
 
2013-09-01 04:08:22 PM

Guntram Shatterhand: On the bright side, this would be a great reality show:  "Tard Circus," where several believers test their faith by swimming in infected blood, eating various contaminated bread, and seeing if they can take a bullet to the face to see how much they love God.  And if they catch something/die, then it's their fault and it's some sin that the announcer, safe in a plastic bubble, can make up on the spot.

It's much better than electing these sad idiots to any positions of power, really.


The funny thing is that THIS ACTUALLY EXISTS (after a fashion) already in parts of Appalachia--"Church of Jesus Christ with Signs Following" and other Oneness Pentecostal churches that tend to be more than a bit infamous for things like drinking poison and picking up timber rattlers during services.

And yes, even though snake-handlin' in "snake handlin' churches" is technically illegal and HAS been since 1946 here in Kentucky, we still get at least one person a year who kicks up dead because they managed to handle a "hot herp" which gave them a full envenomating dose or because the poison kicked in that time.  (Keep in mind that a lot of the areas where "snake handlin' churches" exist are sufficiently remote that it would take a Level 1 trauma flight team the better part of a half hour to get to a hospital with proper facilities to treat a serious crotalid envenomation or a major poisoning.  Keep in mind that a LOT of these "snake handlin' churches" tend to eschew most medical treatment anyways.)

And yes, they DO tend to blame the inevitable deaths resulting from Russian Roulette For Gawd as the person having insufficient faith or "Their Time Had Come".
 
2013-09-01 04:08:28 PM

Elzar: Tigger: Peki: Tigger: Benevolent Misanthrope: Earlier this week crowds flooded in for regular services. Rose Mwangi had her Bible in hand, and said she's not worried.
 

"Because I know Jesus is a healer, so I know he's covered us with the blood," Mwangi says. "There's no place for fear."

"The concerns we have had are primarily with very young children who have family history of autism and with bundling too many immunizations at one time," she [the pastor] said.
 

"You don't take the word of the guy that's trying to give the shot about what's good and what isn't," he [pastor's father, noted nutbag Kenneth Copland] said.

And Christians wonder why the rest of us think of them as a bunch of servile f*ckwits.

Ideas as stupid as these eventually eliminate the individuals who support them. It just takes too farking long.

And they breed in the meantime. Darwin doesn't always reward the smartest, just the most successful at breeding.

It's not a simple as 'the less fit can now survive'. We eventually get rid of the idiots. It just takes a really long time. Took a thousand years to get these people out of government in Europe but they are now essentially relegated to fringe loony positions. Hopefully that takes less time in the US.

Maybe we can aggressively promote something that is beneficial or essential for survival as 'the mark of the beast'. Xtians will fall all over themselves trying to distance themselves... Any ideas?


Obamacare?
 
2013-09-01 04:16:50 PM
The truth and a few facts.

A rubella (measles) infection can cause miscarriage, preterm birth, or stillbirth, as well as a variety of birth defects, but it depends on how far along you are when you contract the virus. The risks are highest during the early stages of a baby's development and they go down as pregnancy progresses.
If you get rubella during the first 12 weeks of pregnancy, there's a high chance (up to 85 percent) that your baby will develop CRS (Congenital Rubella Syndrome). The rate of CRS for a baby whose mother is infected between 13 and 16 weeks is about 54 percent, and the rate continues to go down sharply from there. After 20 weeks there's very little risk that the infection will cause a birth defect.
There's a wide range of very serious problems associated with CRS, most commonly deafness, eye defects (which may lead to blindness), heart malformations, and neurologic problems, such as mental retardation. Other defects may also be evident at birth, or problems may surface later in infancy and childhood.

Early in my professional training (1970's), I spent a couple of months in a care unit for children with CRS.  It was horrible, a living nightmare.  Just wait until some of these unvaccinated women start hitting reproductive age and then contracting rubella early in their pregnancies.  I suppose there will again be care units for children with CRS because their stupid mothers weren't vaccinated.
 
2013-09-01 04:16:53 PM

Elzar: Tigger: Peki: Tigger: Benevolent Misanthrope: 

Maybe we can aggressively promote something that is beneficial or essential for survival as 'the mark of the beast'. Xtians will fall all over themselves trying to distance themselves... Any ideas?


As long as nothing has a barcode on it.

/yes some of them believe that
 
drp
2013-09-01 04:21:29 PM

Peki: And they breed in the meantime. Darwin doesn't always reward the smartest, just the most successful at breeding.


Aren't you the farking idiot who passionately argued against treating people with Downs Syndrome?  Something about how curing that condition would harm the rest of us, who would then not have the cultural perspective and count-our-blessings gratitude that comes from having a bunch of people with preventable mental retardation all around us?


Yeah ... it was ... http://www.fark.com/comments/7883698

No. There is not necessarily anything "wrong" with these folks. They have a chromosomal abnormality. The "defect" is that they cannot survive in *this* culture. It's the culture that's the problem, not them; the solution is not Gattaca.

We will always have genetic "mistakes." Evolution requires it. The trick is to learn how to accommodate those realities, not to make those "mistake" conform to the reality we have artificially created.


So, what is it you've got against measles?  Shouldn't we refrain from treating or preventing it?  I mean, if trisomy 21 isn't a "defect" as you claim, then surely measles isn't either.  The crippled and disabled victims are just differently-abled, and as long as it's someone else's kid, well, then for you it's just a learning opportunity and slice of culture.
 
2013-09-01 04:21:32 PM

J. Frank Parnell: Promised myself i wouldn't post in another pro-vaccination troll thread.

/dammit


Well, yeah, now that you're here it IS a troll thread, Derptaculus.
 
2013-09-01 04:22:00 PM

pissnmoan: The truth and a few facts.

A rubella (measles) infection can cause miscarriage, preterm birth, or stillbirth, as well as a variety of birth defects, but it depends on how far along you are when you contract the virus. The risks are highest during the early stages of a baby's development and they go down as pregnancy progresses.
If you get rubella during the first 12 weeks of pregnancy, there's a high chance (up to 85 percent) that your baby will develop CRS (Congenital Rubella Syndrome). The rate of CRS for a baby whose mother is infected between 13 and 16 weeks is about 54 percent, and the rate continues to go down sharply from there. After 20 weeks there's very little risk that the infection will cause a birth defect.
There's a wide range of very serious problems associated with CRS, most commonly deafness, eye defects (which may lead to blindness), heart malformations, and neurologic problems, such as mental retardation. Other defects may also be evident at birth, or problems may surface later in infancy and childhood.

Early in my professional training (1970's), I spent a couple of months in a care unit for children with CRS.  It was horrible, a living nightmare.  Just wait until some of these unvaccinated women start hitting reproductive age and then contracting rubella early in their pregnancies.  I suppose there will again be care units for children with CRS because their stupid mothers weren't vaccinated.


My mom tells the story of being exposed to rubella when she was pregnant for me. She's a nurse, and was working pediatrics, small kid with measles upchucked on her, she tested pregnant a few days later. Massive concern all around. II semed tu trun aut OK
 
2013-09-01 04:23:01 PM

AeAe: Can we try this?  Send a guy in a hazmat suit to the church and give away t-shirts covered in small pox that reads "Jesus saves!"..

If it doesn't wipe out the church, then the t-shirts are right.  If it does, I guess God was angry with them for some reason.  Possibly because of the gays.


Old and busted: snake handling
New hotness: smallpox handling
 
2013-09-01 04:27:14 PM

PainfulItching: Elzar: Tigger: Peki: Tigger: Benevolent Misanthrope: 

Maybe we can aggressively promote something that is beneficial or essential for survival as 'the mark of the beast'. Xtians will fall all over themselves trying to distance themselves... Any ideas?

As long as nothing has a barcode on it.

/yes some of them believe that



I actually know, and am distantly related to, some of these folks who think barcodes are the sign of the devil.

unrelated csb:

Went to the DMV here in Georgia to get a Georgia driver's license.   Had to take a number (671) and wait for it to be called.  So I'm sitting there waiting for my turn, when I notice the current number is 665. I make a joke to my neighbor about how funny it would be if the person who drew the number 666 refused to respond to the number because of the superstition surrounding it.

Then the time comes...

THE DMV SKIPPED NUMBER 666!  It went straight from 664 to 667.

*facepalm*

Even the State of Georgia believes there's something wrong with the number 666!
 
2013-09-01 04:29:30 PM
Saul T. Balzac:
THE DMV SKIPPED NUMBER 666!  It went straight from 664 665 to 667.

*facepalm*

Even the State of Georgia believes there's something wrong with the number 666!


FTFM
 
2013-09-01 04:30:31 PM

Great Porn Dragon: Guntram Shatterhand: On the bright side, this would be a great reality show:  "Tard Circus," where several believers test their faith by swimming in infected blood, eating various contaminated bread, and seeing if they can take a bullet to the face to see how much they love God.  And if they catch something/die, then it's their fault and it's some sin that the announcer, safe in a plastic bubble, can make up on the spot.

It's much better than electing these sad idiots to any positions of power, really.

The funny thing is that THIS ACTUALLY EXISTS (after a fashion) already in parts of Appalachia--"Church of Jesus Christ with Signs Following" and other Oneness Pentecostal churches that tend to be more than a bit infamous for things like drinking poison and picking up timber rattlers during services.

And yes, even though snake-handlin' in "snake handlin' churches" is technically illegal and HAS been since 1946 here in Kentucky, we still get at least one person a year who kicks up dead because they managed to handle a "hot herp" which gave them a full envenomating dose or because the poison kicked in that time.  (Keep in mind that a lot of the areas where "snake handlin' churches" exist are sufficiently remote that it would take a Level 1 trauma flight team the better part of a half hour to get to a hospital with proper facilities to treat a serious crotalid envenomation or a major poisoning.  Keep in mind that a LOT of these "snake handlin' churches" tend to eschew most medical treatment anyways.)

And yes, they DO tend to blame the inevitable deaths resulting from Russian Roulette For Gawd as the person having insufficient faith or "Their Time Had Come".


I hate that stupid fatalistic attitude. It fills me with disgust.

It reminds me of the time I took a driving safety class to have a speeding ticket erased from my record (was doing 10 over the limit in a speed trap). A guy in the class got into an argument with the instructor about how if he's speeding through a small residential road and hits a little kid who darts into his path, well, it was just fate. Completely absolves him of responsibility.

Really, guy? So if I murder you out in the parking lot and steal your car that's just fate too, right? Not my problem!
 
2013-09-01 04:32:48 PM
Who's up for revoking tax exempt status? Tax the fark outta them, and get a nonbiased, non bible thumping judge to uphold the resulting case, and rule in favor of the plaintiffs. And there will be, the church as a nuisance to the community.
/I can dream, can't I?
//Where's Jenny mccarthy when you need her?
 
2013-09-01 04:32:52 PM
"Because I know Jesus is a healer, so I know he's covered us with the blood," Mwangi says. "There's no place for fear."

Well, there's your problem!  Blood is a well-known vector for infectious disease.  Letting yourself get covered with the stuff is a sure-fire way to get sick.  This Jesus guy, he didn't go to med school, did he?
 
2013-09-01 04:37:29 PM

bigsteve3OOO: If vaccines are effective then a few people not getting them should have zero effect on the rest of the vaccinated population.


5.5/10. Theres just something that doesn't put it over the edge.
 
2013-09-01 04:37:44 PM

Dawnrazor: "Because I know Jesus is a healer, so I know he's covered us with the blood," Mwangi says. "There's no place for fear."

Well, there's your problem!  Blood is a well-known vector for infectious disease.  Letting yourself get covered with the stuff is a sure-fire way to get sick.  This Jesus guy, he didn't go to med school, did he?


Nope, but he sure does a great job at mowing the lawn...
 
2013-09-01 04:38:53 PM
Always fun for the family.
 
2013-09-01 04:44:05 PM

Coming on a Bicycle: You don't die from Measles. Or well, hardly anyone dies from Measles. I mean, my kids are vaccinated as well, but certain things in modern day medicine are simply luxury, and that's not bad. But at least be so fair as to acknowledge that, and let's not pretend some parents are complicit in causing the Second Plague here.


Measles infection of the brain (encephalitis) can cause convulsions, mental retardation, and even death.
 
2013-09-01 04:49:35 PM

bingo the psych-o: Dear Christians:

Immunization prevents more diseases than prayer ever will.  Insulin treats more diabetes than prayer ever will.  Chemotherapy has cured more cancers than prayer ever will.

Please, please, please educate yourselves for the sake of your own children.


Dear Christians:

God gave humans the intelligence to discover immunizations.   God gave humans the intelligence to discover insulin and God gave humans the intelligence to discover Chemotherapy.   Please start using them as you are making God very sad that you are ignoring all the good he has placed in your hands.
 
2013-09-01 05:00:13 PM

PainfulItching: ruta: Wait til they get their wave of pertussis and they have babies dying horrific deaths. That'll learn 'em. Or maybe diphtheria. Diphtheria's pretty farking biblical.

If you've got any concerns about vaccines, do a GIS for diphtheria and then re-consider the validity of your concerns. Also be prepared to be haunted by the image of a "pseudomembrane" forever after.

I've actually had pertussis as an adult. I was immunized as a kid. Sometimes the vax loses its efficacy. Relatively mild case, but it still sucked. Got a booster shot once the infection was cleared. My ribs haven't been the same since though.


Same here. I wish my doctor had told me to get the booster before. I have asthma and my lungs were a wreck for a year. Can't imagine having to watch a kid with that cough.

\And IIRC, the vaccine is only 80% successful, which makes the fact that it's going around adults again rather scary even for parents who do fully vaccinate.
 
2013-09-01 05:01:37 PM
I'm not sure which I hate more... Measles, Texas, or Megachurches.
But right now, measles has the Bronze medal.
 
2013-09-01 05:05:40 PM
The FARK headline was pretty good, it sort of reminds me of Democrats talking about gun control.
 
2013-09-01 05:06:15 PM

Guest: bingo the psych-o: Dear Christians:

Immunization prevents more diseases than prayer ever will.  Insulin treats more diabetes than prayer ever will.  Chemotherapy has cured more cancers than prayer ever will.

Please, please, please educate yourselves for the sake of your own children.

Dear Christians:

God gave humans developedthe intelligence to discover immunizations.   God gave humans hadthe intelligence to discover insulin and God gave humans also hadthe intelligence to discover Chemotherapy.   Please start using them your intelligence as you are making God us reasonable and logical folks very sad that you are ignoranting all the good he has placed in your hands.


FTFY
 
2013-09-01 05:08:07 PM

ex-nuke: The FARK headline was pretty good, it sort of reminds me of Democrats talking about gun control.


It's a bit late in the thread, but not bad!
 
2013-09-01 05:17:02 PM
I just wish we had the guts to take kids away from people like this (and other losers) and the brains to have a safe, healthy environment to raise them. But, I guess letting them die is another, more cruel way of dealing with them.

Other than doing stupid, fake stuff to 'protect' our kids (freaking out about porn and making war on drugs) our society doesn't seem to give two shiats about kids. And we wonder where all the screwed up adults come from.
 
2013-09-01 05:25:00 PM

Saul T. Balzac: Saul T. Balzac:
THE DMV SKIPPED NUMBER 666!  It went straight from 664 665 to 667.

*facepalm*

Even the State of Georgia believes there's something wrong with the number 666!

FTFM


I saw a 666 XXX Oregon license plate a few days ago.  Made me smile.
 
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