Do you have adblock enabled?
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(NPR)   Pastor preaching against vaccinations at megachurch, which is now the site of a measles outbreak: "So I'm going to tell you what the facts are and the facts are the facts but then we know the truth, that always overcomes facts"   (npr.org) divider line 354
    More: Followup, Weekend Edition Sunday, vaccinations, outbreaks, measles, Children's Hospital of Philadelphia, MMR vaccine, sermons, truth  
•       •       •

14996 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Sep 2013 at 1:04 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



354 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | » | Last | Show all
 
2013-09-01 02:20:44 PM  

Ilmarinen: Coming on a Bicycle: Lachwen: Mentat: Coming on a Bicycle: You don't die from Measles. Or well, hardly anyone dies from Measles. I mean, my kids are vaccinated as well, but certain things in modern day medicine are simply luxury, and that's not bad. But at least be so fair as to acknowledge that, and let's not pretend some parents are complicit in causing the Second Plague here.

You know measles isn't the only disease out there, right?  You know people still get bubonic plague, right?

And let's not forget that measles may be an uncomfortable but ultimately non-serious disease for most children, if you contract it as an adult you run a MUCH higher risk of serious, permanent damage, like blindness and sterility.

Sure. But that's more of a risk you run in an almost-fully-vaccinated society, than in a hardly-vaccinated-at-all society. Because in the latter environment, you would have had it as a child. So I would contend that you're arguing against yourself here.

Vaccinated people HAVE had it as a child.


Yes. But what I meant is (at the risk of explaining myself to a troll) - that non-vaccinated people walking around in an almost-fully-vaccinated environment, run a much greater risk of catching it as an adult, because they are more mobile as an adult. Our society is the almost-fully-vaccinated environment, and therefore much more dangerous to the non-vaccinated. Were our society the non-vaccinated kind, then people would have had an equal chance to get it as a child (because when you're vaccinated, you get the disease, but you're not - or hardly - contageous). Which is why - to the non-vaccinated person, the non-vaccinated society is the better one. Get my point?
 
2013-09-01 02:22:52 PM  

LouDobbsAwaaaay: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: When a liberal celebrity does it: "Ooh lets examine the science, it's good to question big Pharma!"

Who is embracing this argument?  I've never seen anyone defend an anti-vaxxer celebrity other than another anti-vaxxer.  You're just making stuff up so you can complain about being persecuted.


I'm being persecuted? In what way?
 
2013-09-01 02:23:18 PM  

ruta: Wait til they get their wave of pertussis and they have babies dying horrific deaths. That'll learn 'em. Or maybe diphtheria. Diphtheria's pretty farking biblical.

If you've got any concerns about vaccines, do a GIS for diphtheria and then re-consider the validity of your concerns. Also be prepared to be haunted by the image of a "pseudomembrane" forever after.


I've actually had pertussis as an adult. I was immunized as a kid. Sometimes the vax loses its efficacy. Relatively mild case, but it still sucked. Got a booster shot once the infection was cleared. My ribs haven't been the same since though.
 
2013-09-01 02:24:17 PM  
Pastor preaching against vaccinations at megachurch, which is now the site of a measles outbreak: "So I'm going to tell you what the facts are and the facts are the facts but then we know The Truth™, that always overcomes Libfacts™"

FTFH
 
2013-09-01 02:26:02 PM  

Noticeably F.A.T.: Coming on a Bicycle: Eh.. which was my point as well?

So, what, you just felt the need to chime in to make sure nobody did what nobody was doing (behaving as though this was some sort of Captain Trips outbreak)?


Let's just say that anti-anti-vaccers can get a little bit hysterical on their own at times just as well. The risk of getting Measles when you've had your shots, given those shots and the effect of herd immunity, are absolutely negligible. So why the hush? Why the yelling at TV's (see other posts) for the sake of some children (most of whom will be perfectly fine anyway, for reasons see above) of some nut-heads?
 
2013-09-01 02:27:26 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: I'm being persecuted? In what way?


Some people indulge others in this "explain my own post back to me" game.  I don't.
 
2013-09-01 02:29:32 PM  
On behalf of Texas -- I'd like to apologize for the insane amount of stupid that spews from the people depicted in this article. I live in the DFW, TX area -- and yeah there are a few of those mega churches here and there. What's really messed up is for all the "giving/love/chairity" these people claim to have, when your church occupies 2 city blocks, pays no taxes, and the people running the show (because that's all it really is, a show) are making six or seven figures... just.... fark you church. If they are so against basic science and medicine if I had my way, when they show up at the hospital desperate for care, give them the bible and tell them to pray harder. When their child dies it will be "because they didn't love jesus enough". hah (so much fun twisting their own retard logic against them)

I remember getting my MMR (measles, mumps, rubella) shot as a kid> worked out great seeing as how we were keeping the shiat in "eradicated" status.

I also like how these morons spout "it's the will of god" only when it's convenient... always fun to twist it back on them and tell them it's the will of god that your child get sick of an easily preventable disease because mommy and daddy are too stupid to think for themselves.  In situations like this -- I'd have no problem with making the parents lives a living hell via child protective services. Worse is one of these know it all bible beaters is going to raise the next david koresh someday.
 
2013-09-01 02:30:14 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: When a liberal celebrity does it: "Ooh lets examine the science, it's good to question big Pharma!"

When a pastor does it: "Haha, dumb hillbillies, they dont bieve in science and modern medicine, what a bunch of rubes!"


Way to beat the shiat out of that strawman.  I hope it made you feel momentarily brave.
 
2013-09-01 02:30:27 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: Mister Peejay: 150-200 years ago, I probably wouldn't have lived past childhood, or if I did, I would have been labeled a moron or something because I can't see six inches in front of my face.

/happy little cyborg

You do realize that 150-200 years ago, glasses did exist, right? They aren't necessarily a modern invention.


They are, in fact, a medieval invention--late thirteenth century. Benjamin Franklin invented bifocals.
 
2013-09-01 02:30:46 PM  

Raw_fishFood: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: When a liberal celebrity does it: "Ooh lets examine the science, it's good to question big Pharma!"

When a pastor does it: "Haha, dumb hillbillies, they dont bieve in science and modern medicine, what a bunch of rubes!"

Pretty sure in both cases the anti-vaccination person is usually labeled a "Dumb motherfarker."


Yeah, I don't see hordes of liberals rushing to support Jenny McCarthy.  The anti-vax crowd is laughed at pretty universally, doesn't matter if it's got its roots in religion or new age foofery.
 
2013-09-01 02:31:56 PM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: Earlier this week crowds flooded in for regular services. Rose Mwangi had her Bible in hand, and said she's not worried.
 

"Because I know Jesus is a healer, so I know he's covered us with the blood," Mwangi says. "There's no place for fear."

"The concerns we have had are primarily with very young children who have family history of autism and with bundling too many immunizations at one time," she [the pastor] said.
 

"You don't take the word of the guy that's trying to give the shot about what's good and what isn't," he [pastor's father, noted nutbag Kenneth Copland] said.

And Christians wonder why the rest of us think of them as a bunch of servile f*ckwits.


Measure all by the action of one. You're a straight thinker.
 
2013-09-01 02:32:27 PM  

Dinki: So let's get this straight-

Parents get vaccinations for their kid, kid doesn't get sick- "This is Gods will!"


Reminds me of this story:

This is a story of a man, who was a firm believer of God.

One day it began to rain very heavily. It kept raining and a big flood came.

The man climbed up on the roof of his house, and knew that he would be ok. God would protect him.

It kept raining and now the water had reached his waist. A boat came by and a guy in the boat said: "Hey, jump in. We will take you with us".

"No thanks", said the man. "I'm a firm believer in God. He will rescue me". He sent the boat away.

It kept on raining and now the water had reached his neck. Another boat came by and a guy in the boat said: "You look like you could need some help. Jump in and we will take you with us".

"No", said the man. "I'm a firm believer in God. He will rescue me. Don't worry about me". The boat sailed away.

It still rained and the water now reached his mouth. A helicopter came by and a guy in the helicopter threw down a rope and said: "Hi there my friend. Climb up. We will rescue you".

"No", said the man. "I'm a firm believer in God. He will rescue me. I know he will". The helicopter flew away.

It kept on raining, and finally the man drowned.

When the man died, he went to heaven. When entering Heaven, he had an interview with God.
After giving a polite greeting and sitting down, the man asked: "Where were you. I waited and waited. I was sure you would rescue me, as I have been a firm believer all my life, and have only done good to others. So where were you when I needed you?"

God scratched His confused looking face and answered: "I don't get it either. I sent you two boats and a helicopter".


/"I sent vaccines and medicines and doctors. Why did you refuse them?"
 
2013-09-01 02:32:51 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: When a pastor does it: "Haha, dumb hillbillies, they dont bieve in science and modern medicine, what a bunch of rubes!"


Doesn't it bother you that, to get your "point" across, you have to lie?
 
2013-09-01 02:34:07 PM  

theorellior: ThePastafarian: Dinki: So let's get this straight-

Parents refuse vaccinations for their kid, kid doesn't get sick- "See, God protects our children!"

Parents refuse vaccinations for their kid, kid gets sick- "This is Gods will!"

Parents get vaccinations for their kid, kid doesn't get sick- "This is Gods will!"

Parents get vaccinations for their kid, kid gets sick - "It's that evil science!"

Something good happens: "This was the work of God"

Something bad happens: "The Lord works in mysterious ways"

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.

Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.

Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?

Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?


I wish that I was familiar with Epicurus back in my catholic high school days.
 
2013-09-01 02:35:05 PM  

I_Can't_Believe_it's_not_Boutros: cameroncrazy1984: Mister Peejay: 150-200 years ago, I probably wouldn't have lived past childhood, or if I did, I would have been labeled a moron or something because I can't see six inches in front of my face.

/happy little cyborg

You do realize that 150-200 years ago, glasses did exist, right? They aren't necessarily a modern invention.

They are, in fact, a medieval invention--late thirteenth century. Benjamin Franklin invented bifocals.


Correct. The idea that glasses were some sort of novelty around the time of the Revolution is hilarious.
 
2013-09-01 02:36:51 PM  

theorellior: Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.

Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.

Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?

Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?


The critical flaw in this logical argument is the assumption of God being male. God's a biatch. Period.
 
2013-09-01 02:37:42 PM  

Lionel Mandrake: Benevolent Misanthrope: "You don't take the word of the guy that's trying to give the shot about what's good and what isn't," he [pastor's father, noted nutbag Kenneth Copland] said.

You'd think a prosperity theologian would want his suckers - er, congregants - to stay healthy.  It's hard to convince corpses that Jesus loves rich people most of all, and that the first step to becoming rich is robust tithing.

Of course, if you can get them to include the Church in their wills...ka-ching!!  I mean, hallelujah!!


you know, I'll go back and read the rest of the comments, but I had to get this in quickly.

Some years back in NH, I used to listen to a religious talk radio network on the radio during long commutes to work.  I had them on the speed numbers right beside NPR, which was right beside the local metal station.  So when Metalica came on, I'd check NPR, then try and laugh my way through the fundy station for a while before going back to NPR or metal.  So one day I'm cruising though the channels and I hear one of the fundy pastors come on, and I recognize the voice.  He's on all the time.  He's relating a story where one of his flock is asking him how much he should give to the local church.  He says he gives 10% tithe, but he feels empty inside.  As though he had more to give.  Rather than asking for him to volunteer, to give of his time the greedy pastor shows his true colors and goes right for the pocketbook, telling this well-off flock-member that he should give more of his income, 20-30%.  To give until it hurts, for "That is the path to heaven."

yeah, right about there I lost my faith in organized religion.

/not in God, just the greed induced lust of the clergy
 
2013-09-01 02:41:17 PM  

Coming on a Bicycle: Yes. But what I meant is (at the risk of explaining myself to a troll) - that non-vaccinated people walking around in an almost-fully-vaccinated environment, run a much greater risk of catching it as an adult, because they are more mobile as an adult. Our society is the almost-fully-vaccinated environment, and therefore much more dangerous to the non-vaccinated. Were our society the non-vaccinated kind, then people would have had an equal chance to get it as a child (because when you're vaccinated, you get the disease, but you're not - or hardly - contageous). Which is why - to the non-vaccinated person, the non-vaccinated society is the better one. Get my point?


A non-vaccinated person can easily become a vaccinated person, especially in a society where almost everybody is vaccinated, so the problem should be over soon.
There may be people who can't get vaccinated for medical reasons, but they'd still be better of in a society where people don't become contageous.
 
2013-09-01 02:44:49 PM  
FTFA:

"This is a good example, unfortunately, of how birds of a feather flock together," Terk says. "If you have individuals who are vaccine-hesitant or vaccine-hostile, they congregate together, and that creates its own unique situation where a population of individuals is susceptible to getting the very disease that they decided they don't want to protect themselves from."

...and thus the problem solves itself.
 
2013-09-01 02:45:15 PM  

Apos: Are Jenny McCarthy and Rob Schneider among their faithful congregation?


Holy crap, who in their right mind would give Schneider any credibility on medical issues?  It's unbelievable.
 
2013-09-01 02:46:20 PM  

Kahabut: Mentat: vpb: Tigger: The rate of human evolution actually appears to be accelerating. Despite the well-argued claims of a cult comedy's opening credits.

No, It's actual biology, despite the fact that some guy used the idea to make a movie.

Besides, it's not too hard to figure out that someone with a fatal genetic flaw who is able to survive and breed because of modern medicine will pass on his genetic condition instead of becoming a genetic dead end.

You're arguing two completely separate things.  The rate of evolution in the human population has increased, but technology and civilization has also changed the evolutionary parameters under which selection and genetic drift operate.  Natural selection is most definitely still occurring and would actually be predicted to get stronger as the various world populations increasingly intermingle.

And you are missing the point.  No one ever said natural selection (which I think is the wrong term for what humans practice) had to be good for the population.  For every existent animal on earth, there are dozens of extinct ones.  If we assume the classic definition of natural selection, then the strongest "most successful" BREEDERS are the ones pushing evolution.  In many populations, that isn't the one most capable of surviving, as evidenced by extinction.  Furthermore, if we are talking about humans, the people who have the most kids are not necessarily the most adapted to survival.  In point of fact, if you want to go by socio-economic station, they are the least adapted.

I farking hate that movie, because it essentially turns what was an entirely logical conclusion into a dick and fart joke, which makes it very easy for people to dismiss it.  Despite the FACT that it's not inaccurate.

Is evolution happening faster in humans, yes because we are breeding faster, this isn't difficult to understand.  The part you seem to be missing is, evolution isn't necessarily a good thing.  The name implies getting better, but that's n ...


No I'm not missing the point.  At no point did I say that evolution was progressive, A) because I study evolution for a living and know better and B) that had nothing to do with the original comment.  And no, evolution is not happening faster because we're breeding faster (I'm pretty sure gestation is still 9 months), it's because the effective population size of humanity is increasing because of globalization (intermingling of previously isolated populations) and a higher carrying capacity via technology that allows for a larger population size.
 
2013-09-01 02:47:22 PM  

Coming on a Bicycle: Ilmarinen: Coming on a Bicycle: Lachwen: Mentat: Coming on a Bicycle: You don't die from Measles. Or well, hardly anyone dies from Measles. I mean, my kids are vaccinated as well, but certain things in modern day medicine are simply luxury, and that's not bad. But at least be so fair as to acknowledge that, and let's not pretend some parents are complicit in causing the Second Plague here.

You know measles isn't the only disease out there, right?  You know people still get bubonic plague, right?

And let's not forget that measles may be an uncomfortable but ultimately non-serious disease for most children, if you contract it as an adult you run a MUCH higher risk of serious, permanent damage, like blindness and sterility.

Sure. But that's more of a risk you run in an almost-fully-vaccinated society, than in a hardly-vaccinated-at-all society. Because in the latter environment, you would have had it as a child. So I would contend that you're arguing against yourself here.

Vaccinated people HAVE had it as a child.

Yes. But what I meant is (at the risk of explaining myself to a troll) - that non-vaccinated people walking around in an almost-fully-vaccinated environment, run a much greater risk of catching it as an adult, because they are more mobile as an adult. Our society is the almost-fully-vaccinated environment, and therefore much more dangerous to the non-vaccinated. Were our society the non-vaccinated kind, then people would have had an equal chance to get it as a child (because when you're vaccinated, you get the disease, but you're not - or hardly - contageous). Which is why - to the non-vaccinated person, the non-vaccinated society is the better one. Get my point?


Or maybe everyone that is not allergic should be vaccinated. If everyone who is not allergic is vaccinated, given the low incidence of allergies to the vaccinations, the allergic people will have a small chance of getting sick. The problem starts when foolish people stop vaccinating their children for made-up, unsupported, and demonstrably false reasons.

Also for the record, measles may not be that bad of a disease as a child, but preventing the disease in healthy children is not the point of the vaccine. The main point of the MMR vaccine is to control when people become immune to the virus; we don't want pregnant women getting those diseases because it can cause birth defects or even kill the kid. We also don't want six-year-olds passing their measles to babies, or those who have compromised immune systems, which they come into contact with.  Six-year-olds have terrible hygiene habits.

Either way, your argument is kinda silly because in a non-vaccinated society, more non-vaccinated people will die from MMR than people in an almost fully vaccinated society, if only because there are simply more non-vaccinated people to die. I am sure the percentage dead will be greater in the non-vaccinated society too because of rarity of the disease in the almost fully vaccinated society. In other words, a non-vaccinated person will be less likely to encounter the virus.

In conclusion: Don't be a fool, get your kid vaccinated.
 
2013-09-01 02:48:11 PM  
But would those Good Christians refuse to get a transplant for themselves or their loved ones?  Are they refusing to consume pharmaceuticals like anti-hypertensives and statins and anti-diabetes meds and Cialis?

No.

/farking hypocrites
 
2013-09-01 02:50:31 PM  

SilentStrider: If I weren't agnostic i'd be praying that this guy gets struck down by lightning.


It's still okay to pray if you seriously doubt it will do any good.
 
2013-09-01 02:50:44 PM  
Medical advice from your pastor?  Well there's your problem, see a doctor you farking dopes.
 
2013-09-01 02:50:58 PM  

Coming on a Bicycle: Mentat: Coming on a Bicycle: You don't die from Measles. Or well, hardly anyone dies from Measles. I mean, my kids are vaccinated as well, but certain things in modern day medicine are simply luxury, and that's not bad. But at least be so fair as to acknowledge that, and let's not pretend some parents are complicit in causing the Second Plague here.

You know measles isn't the only disease out there, right?  You know people still get bubonic plague, right?

Is your point that the Bubonic Plague can be prevented with the Measles vaccin? Or is your point that the Bubonic Plague is treated with antibiotics these days? If you have a point, I'd like to know about it.


Your original comment implied that it was no big deal because it's just measles.  It ignored the fact that measles has been eradicated in the US and that the only reason it appeared in this community is because one of its members took a trip to Indonesia and contracted it there.  He could just as easily picked up any disease.  There is a bubonic plague outbreak going on right now in central Asia.  There are still areas of this world where polio exists.  The anti-vacc community is susecptible to all of them, not just the relatively minor diseases like measles or mumps.  If the person in question had visited Kazakhstan instead and decided to try some roasted marmot, this church could be suffering from the Plague right now.

Do you get the point now, or should I use smaller words?
 
2013-09-01 02:52:09 PM  
This is what morons believe.
 
2013-09-01 02:52:22 PM  

bigsteve3OOO: If vaccines are effective then a few people not getting them should have zero effect on the rest of the vaccinated population.


Truck driver skips flu shot, gets flu, drives anyway and hits a school bus.
 
gja
2013-09-01 02:54:41 PM  

Huggermugger: But would those Good Christians refuse to get a transplant for themselves or their loved ones?  Are they refusing to consume pharmaceuticals like anti-hypertensives and statins and anti-diabetes meds and Cialis?

No.

/farking hypocrites


Ah, I see the problem with that statement....you used the word "good" where there is none.
'Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'
I think that covers not being considerate enough to not possibly become a foothold for, or spreader of, horrific disease to your fellow man.
 
2013-09-01 02:58:14 PM  
Doesn't it say something that when I went to college I had to provide proof of my immunization?
 
2013-09-01 02:59:20 PM  

bigsteve3OOO: Raw_fishFood: bigsteve3OOO: If vaccines are effective then a few people not getting them should have zero effect on the rest of the vaccinated population.

Herd immunity works by having everybody who can get vaccinated, well, get vaccinated. By greatly reducing the people who can get sick this protects the people who cannot get vaccinated for legitimate reasons, like being too young or weak immune systems.

When people don't get vaccinated despite not having any medical reason not to do so it not only makes the people who can't get vaccinated more vulnerable but gives the disease a chance to mutate and infect people who are only vaccinated against the original strain.

Seems like praying to your god of science has not helped you.  Perhaps a different god would.


You know that old joke about the farmer in the flood... First a neighbor comes by with a canoe, and the farmer sends him away saying "I have faith in god, god will protect me." The flood gets higher and another neighbor comes by in a speedboat, and again the farmer waves him off saying, "I have faith in god, god will protect me." Then later the flood has gotten so high the farmer is now stuck on his roof. A national guard helicopter comes to get him and he sends them away too, once again saying, "I have faith in god, god will protect me."

The flood finally washes away his home and kills him. He gets to heaven and is at the pearly gates and demands an answer from St. Peter, "I had all my faith in god, why did he forsake me? Why wouldn't he protect me?" St. Peter incredulously replies, "What are you talking about? He sent you a canoe, he sent you a speedboat, he sent you a helicopter... what more did you want?"

This old joke nicely illustrates the stupidity of those who eschew vaccinations due to "faith in god" - which is really just ignorance in reality. "I sent you doctors and scientists and vaccines... What more did you want?"
 
2013-09-01 03:01:17 PM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: jayhawk88: "Because I know Jesus is a healer, so I know he's covered us with the blood," Mwangi says. "There's no place for fear."

And if she were to contract measles, that would just be God testing her faith and giving her an opportunity to get closer to Him.

Read the Book of Job sometime.  Her god is a real prick that way.


The story of Job was one of the ones that convinced me I wasn't religious. As a kid, I had tried to be Christian for years, but I could just never get past the fact that God ruined that guy's life because he was good and faithful.
 
2013-09-01 03:04:05 PM  

mhuckins: Dinki: So let's get this straight-

Parents refuse vaccinations for their kid, kid doesn't get sick- "See, God protects our children!"

Parents refuse vaccinations for their kid, kid gets sick- "This is Gods will!"

Parents get vaccinations for their kid, kid doesn't get sick- "This is Gods will!"

Parents get vaccinations for their kid, kid gets sick - "It's that evil science!"

Don't forget parents refuse vaccinations for their kid, kid gets sick, infects someone allergic to the vaccination- "oops".

I don't want to find out the hard way that I am not immune to measles because some dickhead chose not to vaccinate their kids. The odds of a serious allergic reaction are so small there is no reason not to inoculate your kids.


They'd better not try any of this nonsense in Madagascar.
 
2013-09-01 03:05:32 PM  

Coming on a Bicycle: You don't die from Measles. Or well, hardly anyone dies from Measles. I mean, my kids are vaccinated as well, but certain things in modern day medicine are simply luxury, and that's not bad. But at least be so fair as to acknowledge that, and let's not pretend some parents are complicit in causing the Second Plague here.


But there is the risk of deafness and mental retardation in kids. Also, there's a neurodegenerative condition that can show up years after clearing the measles.
 
2013-09-01 03:09:49 PM  

OtherLittleGuy: Dinki: So let's get this straight-

Parents get vaccinations for their kid, kid doesn't get sick- "This is Gods will!"


Reminds me of this story:

This is a story of a man, who was a firm believer of God.

One day it began to rain very heavily. It kept raining and a big flood came.

The man climbed up on the roof of his house, and knew that he would be ok. God would protect him.

It kept raining and now the water had reached his waist. A boat came by and a guy in the boat said: "Hey, jump in. We will take you with us".

"No thanks", said the man. "I'm a firm believer in God. He will rescue me". He sent the boat away.

It kept on raining and now the water had reached his neck. Another boat came by and a guy in the boat said: "You look like you could need some help. Jump in and we will take you with us".

"No", said the man. "I'm a firm believer in God. He will rescue me. Don't worry about me". The boat sailed away.

It still rained and the water now reached his mouth. A helicopter came by and a guy in the helicopter threw down a rope and said: "Hi there my friend. Climb up. We will rescue you".

"No", said the man. "I'm a firm believer in God. He will rescue me. I know he will". The helicopter flew away.

It kept on raining, and finally the man drowned.

When the man died, he went to heaven. When entering Heaven, he had an interview with God.
After giving a polite greeting and sitting down, the man asked: "Where were you. I waited and waited. I was sure you would rescue me, as I have been a firm believer all my life, and have only done good to others. So where were you when I needed you?"

God scratched His confused looking face and answered: "I don't get it either. I sent you two boats and a helicopter".


/"I sent vaccines and medicines and doctors. Why did you refuse them?"


Dangit! I had my post all written up, but got interrupted and couldn't post it for a little bit... But yeah, exactly. People who eschew modern medical breakthroughs like vaccines in favor of prayer, depending on "god's will" to protect them are really only - poorly - trying to rationalize away their arrogant, willful ignorance. If you believe in god, then logically he sent doctors, scientists, vaccines and medicine to protect you. By shunning these things in favor of putting god to a "foolish test" instead a believer is actually rejecting god's will and his plan in their aforementioned arrogance and ignorance.

If you're the kind of person who believes in such foolish nonsense such as deities of course...
 
2013-09-01 03:10:36 PM  

Kahabut: I farking hate that movie, because it essentially turns what was an entirely logical conclusion into a dick and fart joke, which makes it very easy for people to dismiss it.  Despite the FACT that it's not inaccurate.


IMO the greatest flaw in that movie (idiocracy) is that it conflates stupidity with ignorance. They are not the same. Both the ignorant and the stupid are likely to breed like bunnies, but the stupid will end up darwinning themselves with meth or krokodil, or in "Hey Cletus! Watch this!" moments. The smart but ignorant would somehow muddle along.

We fangless, clawless, thin-skinned creatures are absolutely dependent on a working brain to survive. We're goners without it.
 
2013-09-01 03:14:16 PM  

Coming on a Bicycle: You don't die from Measles. Or well, hardly anyone dies from Measles. I mean, my kids are vaccinated as well, but certain things in modern day medicine are simply luxury, and that's not bad. But at least be so fair as to acknowledge that, and let's not pretend some parents are complicit in causing the Second Plague here.


http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs286/en/
"Measles is a highly contagious, serious disease caused by a virus. In 1980, before widespread vaccination, measles caused an estimated 2.6 million deaths each year. "

Just because we do a decent job of keeping it from being a rampant plague, doesn't mean we should lessen the severity of its prevention.
 
2013-09-01 03:16:53 PM  
Ah the jackpot of Derp. Texas and a Megachurch
 
2013-09-01 03:18:35 PM  

J. Frank Parnell: Promised myself i wouldn't post in another pro-vaccination troll thread.

/dammit



Don't worry....... this one Could evolve differently.
 
2013-09-01 03:19:28 PM  

Noticeably F.A.T.: Coming on a Bicycle: You don't die from Measles. Or well, hardly anyone dies from Measles. I mean, my kids are vaccinated as well, but certain things in modern day medicine are simply luxury, and that's not bad. But at least be so fair as to acknowledge that, and let's not pretend some parents are complicit in causing the Second Plague here.

1) Nobody is pretending that it's the plague.

B) Lethality is not the point at all. The point is, it's a stupidly easy disease to not get. The vaccine is so effective now you basically have a choice of getting measles or not getting measles. They chose... poorly.


Furthermore, it's not just about people dying from Measles -- which of course people aren't dying from. A significant number of the vaccine preventable diseases have medical complications: http://www.cdc.gov/measles/about/complications.html

Risking deafness, possible brain damage, miscarriage or low-weight babies is part of the message as well.
 
GBB
2013-09-01 03:21:10 PM  
wp.patheos.com.s3.amazonaws.com
 
2013-09-01 03:21:56 PM  

GrayGush: Coming on a Bicycle: You don't die from Measles. Or well, hardly anyone dies from Measles. I mean, my kids are vaccinated as well, but certain things in modern day medicine are simply luxury, and that's not bad. But at least be so fair as to acknowledge that, and let's not pretend some parents are complicit in causing the Second Plague here.

http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs286/en/
"Measles is a highly contagious, serious disease caused by a virus. In 1980, before widespread vaccination, measles caused an estimated 2.6 million deaths each year. "

Just because we do a decent job of keeping it from being a rampant plague, doesn't mean we should lessen the severity of its prevention.


And the symptoms, like fever - which was a major part of the deaths in the past, can be managed with over the counter meds. Antibiotics take care of any secondary infections. So for most it is survivable, with the assistance of some older "acceptable" medications. It's a matter of degree I guess.
 
2013-09-01 03:22:02 PM  

gilgigamesh: "So I'm going to tell you what the facts are, and the facts are the facts, but then we know the truth. That always overcomes facts," she has said.

I love, love, love that that is


Do you wonder if she is invoking Poe's law or if she's really what happens when her mother drinks too much homemade corn whiskey when she was pregnant with her.
 
2013-09-01 03:22:14 PM  

Coming on a Bicycle: You don't die from Measles. Or well, hardly anyone dies from Measles. I mean, my kids are vaccinated as well, but certain things in modern day medicine are simply luxury, and that's not bad. But at least be so fair as to acknowledge that, and let's not pretend some parents are complicit in causing the Second Plague here.


Apparently someone isn't aware of the complications of measles, then (like, oh, fun things like subacute sclerosing panencephalitis and other forms of measles encephalitis)--not only can measles kill, it also can pretty much render you into a rutabaga if one is unlucky, so to speak.

Also, we have a LOT more immunocompromised people (both in numbers and as a percentage of the population) than we had in the days of "pox parties"--not just folks with HIV (and AIDS and ARC--the latter being basically "pre-AIDS") but kids born with immunodeficiencies, people with asthma, people with rheumatoid arthritis and Crohn's disease and psoriasis and multiple sclerosis (which anymore are routinely treated with certain immunosuppressants, now that we realise that these are autoimmune diseases), people who've had organ and tissue transplants (again, immunosuppressants happen), even shiat like type I and type II and OTHER forms of diabetes (some of which are autoimmunity-linked; all diabetes makes you more susceptible to things going bad with getting sick, and there is a theory that in at least SOME types of autoimmune diabetes the downward spiral IS triggered by catching a virus in childhood).

And now you all are going to have the rare pleasure of seeing me go on a DOUBLE rant.  I'm going to TRY to keep this short and sweet:

a) Vaccines do not cause autism.  Your gebroken swimmers and eggs cause autism (probably because they're too old or you have a milder version of the gebrokenness); almost all ASD that does not have some other form of known genetic basis is a neural and cellular migration and differentiation disorder (and it probably affects all cells)--one we can literally detect in the placenta, the VERY FIRST ORGAN that forms in an embryo, which is a major clue-by-four that it's broken genes that are responsible.

(Mind, these prosperity-gospel-peddling chucklefarks probably don't even BELIEVE in gene and germ theory, thinking diseases are caused by demonic oppression or possession...yes, unfortunately, I grew up in a church of folks who would be Fellow Travellers to the Texas megachurch chucklefarks, hence my unfortunate knowledge.  I'm mostly posting this for REASONABLE people.)

b) Prosperity gospel maims, kills, and is probably one of the very few religious movements that I think NEEDS to be given a very hairy eyeball by CPS officials because of the real risk of damage to kids who HAVE NO FARKING SAY.  You know, like those poor kids who are farking sick with the measles thanks to the "name it and claim yer healing!" and "Diseases are really the result of demons that infest you because your distant ancestors read HOROSCOPES!" goddamn bullshiat chucklefarkery.

(Yes, this is a subject that gets me livid to near-Khornate levels.  I've seen where prosperity gospel has killed, firsthand; my smother, who eventually died of a massive heart attack caused by complications of a previous cardiac arrest (which was in turn the result of poorly-controlled diabetes) when she stopped going to cardio rehab thanks to some goddamn name-it-and-claim-it hucksterfark telling her she had a Miraculous Healing Coming.   I lived in effective poverty my entire childhood because said smother would give fully fifty percent of the pre-tax income to the church under the Prosperity Gospel Delusion that somehow the Abrahamic God ran a Ponzi For Christ.  I have PERMANENT, UNCORRECTABLE (nope, not even glasses work) vision impairment in one of my eyes because of the fact aforementioned smother did NOT get the surgery that was recommended (by one of the best pediatric opthamologists in the state) but instead went to numerous "prosperity gospel" services to fill the preacher's coffers and try to pray the eye fixed.)

c) I am actually a bit of an apatheist now, in part because I sincerely do believe that if the Abrahamic Deity actually GAVE a literal goddamn about humanity that "prosperity gospel" hucksters would be among the first against the wall (along with religionationalist terrorists like Al Quaida and the Army of God).  Because Prosperity Gospel Farking Kills.

(And this is not just restricted to the Abrahamics; there are certain groups like Soka Gakkai that I would love to see die in a fire and sent to one of the 108 Hells because they're pretty much the Buddhist version of "name it and claim it" chucklefarkery; hell, one of the Korean "name it and claim" it arsecoonts who pretty much popularised the concept of cell churches (one "David" nee "Paul" Yonggi Cho, may the sanshin have a special hell prepared for him) pretty much ADMITS he cribbed the concept from the Nichiren "prosperity gospel" hucksters..)
 
2013-09-01 03:25:22 PM  

vpb: There actually is a theory called dysgenics that proposes that people are becoming less healthy because harmful mutations don't die out because of modern medicine.


I think I've heard this theory before:

cdn.stereogum.com
 
2013-09-01 03:26:14 PM  

Tigger: vpb: Tigger: Ideas as stupid as these eventually eliminate the individuals who support them. It just takes too farking long.

There is no natural selection anymore.  Stupidity has become survivable because modern society will provide food and medical treatment.

It's more complex than that.

The rate of human evolution actually appears to be accelerating. Despite the well-argued claims of a cult comedy's opening credits.


Evolution does not mean that a population of organisms "get more intelligent" - it just means that they change. That change could also possibly take the form of them getting more stupid. That human evolution appears to be accelerating does not actually contradict the premise of that "cult comedy's opening credits" like you seem to be arguing it does.
 
2013-09-01 03:29:52 PM  
God is a part of us. It is not a magic sky wizard, it is an aspect of the mind.

People said this thousands of years ago and this is the age where we will prove it.
 
2013-09-01 03:31:58 PM  
Because your science is not 100% effective and in some cases deadly; some people opt out.  You think they are fool.  I think they know statistics.
 
2013-09-01 03:34:59 PM  

bigsteve3OOO: Because your science is not 100% effective and in some cases deadly; some people opt out.  You think they are fool.  I think they know statistics.


Wow, and do they. They know exactly what their outcome will be beforehand.

Or, they don't really understand statistics.
 
2013-09-01 03:35:44 PM  

Foxxinnia: jayhawk88: "Because I know Jesus is a healer, so I know he's covered us with the blood," Mwangi says. "There's no place for fear."

And if she were to contract measles, that would just be God testing her faith and giving her an opportunity to get closer to Him.

How did our species get to the point it has with all these fatalist farks around?


modern medicine?
 
Displayed 50 of 354 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
Advertisement
On Twitter





In Other Media


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report