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(NPR)   Pastor preaching against vaccinations at megachurch, which is now the site of a measles outbreak: "So I'm going to tell you what the facts are and the facts are the facts but then we know the truth, that always overcomes facts"   (npr.org) divider line 354
    More: Followup, Weekend Edition Sunday, vaccinations, outbreaks, measles, Children's Hospital of Philadelphia, MMR vaccine, sermons, truth  
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14978 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Sep 2013 at 1:04 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-09-01 10:21:22 AM
4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-09-01 11:13:46 AM
Earlier this week crowds flooded in for regular services. Rose Mwangi had her Bible in hand, and said she's not worried.
 

"Because I know Jesus is a healer, so I know he's covered us with the blood," Mwangi says. "There's no place for fear."

"The concerns we have had are primarily with very young children who have family history of autism and with bundling too many immunizations at one time," she
[the pastor] said.
 

"You don't take the word of the guy that's trying to give the shot about what's good and what isn't," he [pastor's father, noted nutbag Kenneth Copland] said.

And Christians wonder why the rest of us think of them as a bunch of servile f*ckwits.
 
2013-09-01 11:24:53 AM
i.imgur.com
 
2013-09-01 11:27:14 AM

Benevolent Misanthrope: Earlier this week crowds flooded in for regular services. Rose Mwangi had her Bible in hand, and said she's not worried.
 

"Because I know Jesus is a healer, so I know he's covered us with the blood," Mwangi says. "There's no place for fear."

"The concerns we have had are primarily with very young children who have family history of autism and with bundling too many immunizations at one time," she [the pastor] said.
 

"You don't take the word of the guy that's trying to give the shot about what's good and what isn't," he [pastor's father, noted nutbag Kenneth Copland] said.

And Christians wonder why the rest of us think of them as a bunch of servile f*ckwits.


Ideas as stupid as these eventually eliminate the individuals who support them. It just takes too farking long.
 
2013-09-01 11:27:24 AM
Wasn't St. Luke a doctor?
 
2013-09-01 11:28:33 AM
Is that anything like Karl Rove's secret math?
 
jbc [TotalFark]
2013-09-01 11:28:47 AM
Congrats to Copeland for being both a religious quack and a medical quack. Dipshart.
 
2013-09-01 11:29:44 AM
So let's get this straight-

Parents refuse vaccinations for their kid, kid doesn't get sick- "See, God protects our children!"

Parents refuse vaccinations for their kid, kid gets sick- "This is Gods will!"

Parents get vaccinations for their kid, kid doesn't get sick- "This is Gods will!"

Parents get vaccinations for their kid, kid gets sick - "It's that evil science!"
 
2013-09-01 11:37:46 AM

Tigger: Benevolent Misanthrope: Earlier this week crowds flooded in for regular services. Rose Mwangi had her Bible in hand, and said she's not worried.
 

"Because I know Jesus is a healer, so I know he's covered us with the blood," Mwangi says. "There's no place for fear."

"The concerns we have had are primarily with very young children who have family history of autism and with bundling too many immunizations at one time," she [the pastor] said.
 

"You don't take the word of the guy that's trying to give the shot about what's good and what isn't," he [pastor's father, noted nutbag Kenneth Copland] said.

And Christians wonder why the rest of us think of them as a bunch of servile f*ckwits.

Ideas as stupid as these eventually eliminate the individuals who support them. It just takes too farking long.


And they breed in the meantime. Darwin doesn't always reward the smartest, just the most successful at breeding.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-09-01 11:38:15 AM

Tigger: Ideas as stupid as these eventually eliminate the individuals who support them. It just takes too farking long.


There is no natural selection anymore.  Stupidity has become survivable because modern society will provide food and medical treatment.
 
2013-09-01 11:42:04 AM

Peki: Tigger: Benevolent Misanthrope: Earlier this week crowds flooded in for regular services. Rose Mwangi had her Bible in hand, and said she's not worried.
 

"Because I know Jesus is a healer, so I know he's covered us with the blood," Mwangi says. "There's no place for fear."

"The concerns we have had are primarily with very young children who have family history of autism and with bundling too many immunizations at one time," she [the pastor] said.
 

"You don't take the word of the guy that's trying to give the shot about what's good and what isn't," he [pastor's father, noted nutbag Kenneth Copland] said.

And Christians wonder why the rest of us think of them as a bunch of servile f*ckwits.

Ideas as stupid as these eventually eliminate the individuals who support them. It just takes too farking long.

And they breed in the meantime. Darwin doesn't always reward the smartest, just the most successful at breeding.


It's not a simple as 'the less fit can now survive'. We eventually get rid of the idiots. It just takes a really long time. Took a thousand years to get these people out of government in Europe but they are now essentially relegated to fringe loony positions. Hopefully that takes less time in the US.
 
2013-09-01 11:43:20 AM

Peki: Darwin doesn't always reward the smartest, just the most successful at breeding.


This.  Just ask Clevon

api.ning.com
 
2013-09-01 11:52:13 AM

vpb: There is no natural selection anymore. Stupidity has become survivable because modern society will provide food and medical treatment.


Which proves that you don't understand natural selection.
 
2013-09-01 11:57:24 AM
Saw this biatch on the morning news last week...

Scared the crap out of my daughter when I started screaming at the screen.
 
2013-09-01 11:58:28 AM

vpb: Tigger: Ideas as stupid as these eventually eliminate the individuals who support them. It just takes too farking long.

There is no natural selection anymore.  Stupidity has become survivable because modern society will provide food and medical treatment.


It's more complex than that.

The rate of human evolution actually appears to be accelerating. Despite the well-argued claims of a cult comedy's opening credits.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-09-01 11:58:50 AM
There actually is a theory called dysgenics that proposes that people are becoming less healthy because harmful mutations don't die out because of modern medicine.
 
2013-09-01 12:00:22 PM
I have no problem at all with this.  Provide that all of them are quarantined in their church, under armed guard, and nobody can leave unless they provide evidence of a vaccination or a positive antibody titer two weeks earlier.  You don't get to fark with herd immunity, morons.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-09-01 12:04:17 PM

Tigger: The rate of human evolution actually appears to be accelerating. Despite the well-argued claims of a cult comedy's opening credits.


No, It's actual biology, despite the fact that some guy used the idea to make a movie.

Besides, it's not too hard to figure out that someone with a fatal genetic flaw who is able to survive and breed because of modern medicine will pass on his genetic condition instead of becoming a genetic dead end.
 
2013-09-01 12:06:28 PM

vpb: There is no natural selection anymore. Stupidity has become survivable because modern society will provide food and medical treatment.


notsureifserious.jpg
 
2013-09-01 12:12:31 PM

vpb: Tigger: The rate of human evolution actually appears to be accelerating. Despite the well-argued claims of a cult comedy's opening credits.

No, It's actual biology, despite the fact that some guy used the idea to make a movie.

Besides, it's not too hard to figure out that someone with a fatal genetic flaw who is able to survive and breed because of modern medicine will pass on his genetic condition instead of becoming a genetic dead end.


Yes but it's not actually happening. Because it is about a million times more complex than a) wikipedia article b) 'it's not too hard to figure out'.

If you're actually interested this article provides a very superficial overview of the complex interplay between genetic cultural and environmental interplay that is positively affecting the rate of human evolution.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=culture-speeds-up-h um an-evolution

We've known for years that population level genetic variations cannot be sufficiently explained by a simple 'fittest phenotype survives" approach: Kin selection, reciprocal altruism and cooperation all have an impact, and that's just for starters.
 
2013-09-01 12:12:58 PM
Are Jenny McCarthy and Rob Schneider among their faithful congregation?
 
2013-09-01 12:26:06 PM

Benevolent Misanthrope: Earlier this week crowds flooded in for regular services. Rose Mwangi had her Bible in hand, and said she's not worried.
 

"Because I know Jesus is a healer, so I know he's covered us with the blood," Mwangi says. "There's no place for fear."

"The concerns we have had are primarily with very young children who have family history of autism and with bundling too many immunizations at one time," she [the pastor] said.
 

"You don't take the word of the guy that's trying to give the shot about what's good and what isn't," he [pastor's father, noted nutbag Kenneth Copland] said.

And Christians wonder why the rest of us think of them as a bunch of servile f*ckwits.


Funny how the take the word of the Pastor, though.
 
2013-09-01 12:30:22 PM

Dinki: So let's get this straight-

Parents refuse vaccinations for their kid, kid doesn't get sick- "See, God protects our children!"

Parents refuse vaccinations for their kid, kid gets sick- "This is Gods will!"

Parents get vaccinations for their kid, kid doesn't get sick- "This is Gods will!"

Parents get vaccinations for their kid, kid gets sick - "It's that evil science!"


Don't forget parents refuse vaccinations for their kid, kid gets sick, infects someone allergic to the vaccination- "oops".

I don't want to find out the hard way that I am not immune to measles because some dickhead chose not to vaccinate their kids. The odds of a serious allergic reaction are so small there is no reason not to inoculate your kids.
 
2013-09-01 12:39:19 PM

Benevolent Misanthrope: "You don't take the word of the guy that's trying to give the shot about what's good and what isn't," he [pastor's father, noted nutbag Kenneth Copland] said.


You'd think a prosperity theologian would want his suckers - er, congregants - to stay healthy.  It's hard to convince corpses that Jesus loves rich people most of all, and that the first step to becoming rich is robust tithing.

Of course, if you can get them to include the Church in their wills...ka-ching!!  I mean, hallelujah!!
 
2013-09-01 12:44:07 PM

vpb: Tigger: The rate of human evolution actually appears to be accelerating. Despite the well-argued claims of a cult comedy's opening credits.

No, It's actual biology, despite the fact that some guy used the idea to make a movie.

Besides, it's not too hard to figure out that someone with a fatal genetic flaw who is able to survive and breed because of modern medicine will pass on his genetic condition instead of becoming a genetic dead end.


You're arguing two completely separate things.  The rate of evolution in the human population has increased, but technology and civilization has also changed the evolutionary parameters under which selection and genetic drift operate.  Natural selection is most definitely still occurring and would actually be predicted to get stronger as the various world populations increasingly intermingle.
 
2013-09-01 12:54:52 PM

Lionel Mandrake: Benevolent Misanthrope: "You don't take the word of the guy that's trying to give the shot about what's good and what isn't," he [pastor's father, noted nutbag Kenneth Copland] said.

You'd think a prosperity theologian would want his suckers - er, congregants - to stay healthy.  It's hard to convince corpses that Jesus loves rich people most of all, and that the first step to becoming rich is robust tithing.

Of course, if you can get them to include the Church in their wills...ka-ching!!  I mean, hallelujah!!


You just hit the nail on the head.  My maternal grandparents were manipulated by an unscrupulous pastor into that very thing.  It's pro forma in many churches (every one I've ever seen, actually) to play upon people's fear of death, remind them of their sins, and convince them that their god will be pleased with them in the afterlife if they prove their love for him in the here and now by signing their estate over to the church.

Buncha farking parasites.
 
2013-09-01 12:55:31 PM
If I weren't agnostic i'd be praying that this guy gets struck down by lightning.
 
2013-09-01 01:01:15 PM
"So I'm going to tell you what the facts are, and the facts are the facts, but then we know the truth. That always overcomes facts," she has said.

I love, love, love that that is an actual quote.

You just can't write self-parody that unconsciously witty, You just can't.
 
2013-09-01 01:02:21 PM

Benevolent Misanthrope: Lionel Mandrake: Benevolent Misanthrope: "You don't take the word of the guy that's trying to give the shot about what's good and what isn't," he [pastor's father, noted nutbag Kenneth Copland] said.

You'd think a prosperity theologian would want his suckers - er, congregants - to stay healthy.  It's hard to convince corpses that Jesus loves rich people most of all, and that the first step to becoming rich is robust tithing.

Of course, if you can get them to include the Church in their wills...ka-ching!!  I mean, hallelujah!!

You just hit the nail on the head.  My maternal grandparents were manipulated by an unscrupulous pastor into that very thing.  It's pro forma in many churches (every one I've ever seen, actually) to play upon people's fear of death, remind them of their sins, and convince them that their god will be pleased with them in the afterlife if they prove their love for him in the here and now by signing their estate over to the church.

Buncha farking parasites.


My grandparents paid their 10% before taxes/retirement funds then 10% again as it came out. I think the church even asked for 10% of the life insurance payouts after grandpa died. Mormons are serious about their tithes.
 
2013-09-01 01:07:38 PM
farm3.staticflickr.com
 
2013-09-01 01:09:32 PM
Quarantine them and let it burn itself out.
 
2013-09-01 01:12:35 PM
Promised myself i wouldn't post in another pro-vaccination troll thread.

/dammit
 
2013-09-01 01:12:50 PM

vpb: There actually is a theory called dysgenics that proposes that people are becoming less healthy because harmful mutations don't die out because of modern medicine.


A trip to a suburban mall will validate large chunks of this theory once one has observed the large chunks waddling to the checkouts.
 
2013-09-01 01:15:32 PM
You don't die from Measles. Or well, hardly anyone dies from Measles. I mean, my kids are vaccinated as well, but certain things in modern day medicine are simply luxury, and that's not bad. But at least be so fair as to acknowledge that, and let's not pretend some parents are complicit in causing the Second Plague here.
 
2013-09-01 01:15:35 PM

gilgigamesh: "So I'm going to tell you what the facts are, and the facts are the facts, but then we know the truth. That always overcomes facts," she has said.

I love, love, love that that is an actual quote.

You just can't write self-parody that unconsciously witty, You just can't.


Landover Baptist has been overtaken by a reality more parodic than they could ever been.

Also, I have to say that more dead and crippled fundies is an answered prayer...if you assume prayers are answered. Get on the escalator to Jeebus, godbots...he's "waiting".
 
2013-09-01 01:15:41 PM
"Because I know Jesus is a healer, so I know he's covered us with the blood," Mwangi says. "There's no place for fear."

And if she were to contract measles, that would just be God testing her faith and giving her an opportunity to get closer to Him.
 
2013-09-01 01:16:32 PM

vpb: There actually is a theory called dysgenics that proposes that people are becoming less healthy because harmful mutations don't die out because of modern medicine.


To say that a mutation is harmful is to make a value judgement, since even some "harmful" mutations impart a benefit. Sickle-cell carriers, for example, are somewhat resistant to malaria.
 
2013-09-01 01:18:28 PM
Can we try this?  Send a guy in a hazmat suit to the church and give away t-shirts covered in small pox that reads "Jesus saves!"..

If it doesn't wipe out the church, then the t-shirts are right.  If it does, I guess God was angry with them for some reason.  Possibly because of the gays.
 
2013-09-01 01:18:41 PM
Enjoy God's plan.
 
2013-09-01 01:19:17 PM

trainershark: vpb: There actually is a theory called dysgenics that proposes that people are becoming less healthy because harmful mutations don't die out because of modern medicine.

To say that a mutation is harmful is to make a value judgement, since even some "harmful" mutations impart a benefit. Sickle-cell carriers, for example, are somewhat resistant to malaria.


I'll stick to Gin and Tonic thanks.
 
2013-09-01 01:19:43 PM
Is that eagle on their banner giving me the finger?
 
2013-09-01 01:19:44 PM
If vaccines are effective then a few people not getting them should have zero effect on the rest of the vaccinated population.
 
2013-09-01 01:20:52 PM
I know Jesus never mentions vaccinations in the gospels. And I'm pretty sure the Super-duper megaJesus 2.0 that Paul writes about doesn't either. Those versions also don't mention guns and SUVs, but I don't see Christians letting go of them either. My only conclusion is that the baptists think the only social and population control should be done by them. It's like tying my dog up to a fire hydrant, made of bacon, next to a busy highway. It'll be all happiness, but will still all end in tears.
 
2013-09-01 01:22:00 PM
That's a very strong denial of reality. Think they'd wake up if one if their kids died from something preventable, or just say "God's will." Over and over again to the parents grieving for their dead child?
 
2013-09-01 01:22:21 PM

jayhawk88: "Because I know Jesus is a healer, so I know he's covered us with the blood," Mwangi says. "There's no place for fear."

And if she were to contract measles, that would just be God testing her faith and giving her an opportunity to get closer to Him.


How did our species get to the point it has with all these fatalist farks around?
 
2013-09-01 01:23:10 PM

Dinki: So let's get this straight-

Parents refuse vaccinations for their kid, kid doesn't get sick- "See, God protects our children!"

Parents refuse vaccinations for their kid, kid gets sick- "This is Gods will!"

Parents get vaccinations for their kid, kid doesn't get sick- "This is Gods will!"

Parents get vaccinations for their kid, kid gets sick - "It's that evil science!"


Something good happens: "This was the work of God"

Something bad happens: "The Lord works in mysterious ways"
 
2013-09-01 01:24:31 PM

jayhawk88: "Because I know Jesus is a healer, so I know he's covered us with the blood," Mwangi says. "There's no place for fear."

And if she were to contract measles, that would just be God testing her faith and giving her an opportunity to get closer to Him.


Read the Book of Job sometime.  Her god is a real prick that way.
 
2013-09-01 01:25:03 PM

vpb: There actually is a theory called dysgenics that proposes that people are becoming less healthy because harmful mutations don't die out because of modern medicine.


This.

Hell, just look at how many people have horrible eyesight today.

150-200 years ago, I probably wouldn't have lived past childhood, or if I did, I would have been labeled a moron or something because I can't see six inches in front of my face.

/happy little cyborg
 
2013-09-01 01:25:24 PM
but Pearsons released a statement after the outbreak saying she isn't anti-vaccine. But Pearsons added that she still has some reservations about vaccines. "The concerns we have had are primarily with very young children who have family history of autism and with bundling too many immunizations at one time," she said.

 . . . . citing the research of world famous immunologist, Dr Jenny McCarthy.
 
2013-09-01 01:25:43 PM

Foxxinnia: jayhawk88: "Because I know Jesus is a healer, so I know he's covered us with the blood," Mwangi says. "There's no place for fear."

And if she were to contract measles, that would just be God testing her faith and giving her an opportunity to get closer to Him.

How did our species get to the point it has with all these fatalist farks around?


Rampant overbreeding. The death of a 40 year old who has pumped out 10 crotchfruit is irrelevant if only three of them make it to 40 themselves and pump out three kids each. The net gain is significant, and Heaven gets a new tranche of harpists...or whatever those dummies are supposed to do post-discorporation.
 
2013-09-01 01:25:53 PM
The hell with the vaccination issue, how is ANYTHING in the retrograde, flat state of Texas named "mountain" anything?
 
2013-09-01 01:26:04 PM
and he preaches a prosperity gospel message, why does this not surprise me
 
2013-09-01 01:26:18 PM

bigsteve3OOO: If vaccines are effective then a few people not getting them should have zero effect on the rest of the vaccinated population.


WRONG.

FTFA:

"Typically, it's the fear that the combination measles-mumps-rubella, or MMR vaccine may have in some way contributed to the epidemic of autism - which has clearly been shown not to be true in study after study," Offit says. He says those who chose to skip vaccines cause serious ripple effects.

There are hundreds of thousands of people in the United States who can't get vaccinated because they're undergoing medical treatment or are too young, for example.

 
2013-09-01 01:27:15 PM

ThePastafarian: Something good happens: "This was the work of God"

Something bad happens: "The Lord works in mysterious ways"


Religion is the pinnacle of circular reasoning.  Since their god is all good, all the good stuff is attributable to him and proof of his goodness.  Since he is all good, all the bad stuff is someone else's fault - usually the victim's, since it's just punishment for their "sins" (i.e., bad decisions and normal imperfection), thus proving their god's goodness.

Seriously, it's the biggest scam in history.  Pretty amazing, actually.
 
2013-09-01 01:27:20 PM

gilgigamesh: "So I'm going to tell you what the facts are, and the facts are the facts, but then we know the truth. That always overcomes facts," she has said.
I love, love, love that that is an actual quote.
You just can't write self-parody that unconsciously witty, You just can't.


I came in here to see who latched on to that.

You are right. The only other story I heard that came near it was during the debate, years ago, to introduce classes in Spanish at a local school. Some old lady stood up and waved a bible in the air and said, "English was good enough for Jesus and the Prophets. It should be good enough for us."
 
2013-09-01 01:27:38 PM

ThePastafarian: Dinki: So let's get this straight-

Parents refuse vaccinations for their kid, kid doesn't get sick- "See, God protects our children!"

Parents refuse vaccinations for their kid, kid gets sick- "This is Gods will!"

Parents get vaccinations for their kid, kid doesn't get sick- "This is Gods will!"

Parents get vaccinations for their kid, kid gets sick - "It's that evil science!"

Something good happens: "This was the work of God"

Something bad happens: "The Lord works in mysterious ways"


Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.

Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.

Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?

Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?
 
2013-09-01 01:28:15 PM
For reference, here's how creators of vaccines were viewed around a century ago:

farm6.staticflickr.com

It's one of those "it's so effective, people take for granted that it is what's working" phenomena. Like "there's no lead in my water, I guess we don't need a clean water act."
 
2013-09-01 01:29:08 PM

MithrandirBooga: bigsteve3OOO: If vaccines are effective then a few people not getting them should have zero effect on the rest of the vaccinated population.

WRONG.

FTFA:

"Typically, it's the fear that the combination measles-mumps-rubella, or MMR vaccine may have in some way contributed to the epidemic of autism - which has clearly been shown not to be true in study after study," Offit says. He says those who chose to skip vaccines cause serious ripple effects.

There are hundreds of thousands of people in the United States who can't get vaccinated because they're undergoing medical treatment or are too young, for example.


But people who omit vaccinations for whatever reason should only be exposed to vaccinated people therefore no risk.
 
2013-09-01 01:29:50 PM

bigsteve3OOO: If vaccines are effective then a few people not getting them should have zero effect on the rest of the vaccinated population.


If god is effective then a few people not believing in god should have zero effect...
 
2013-09-01 01:30:26 PM
cause I know Jesus is a healer, so I know he's covered us with the blood," Mwangi says.

I think she may be a worshiper of Khorne.
 
2013-09-01 01:30:33 PM

bigsteve3OOO: If vaccines are effective then a few people not getting them should have zero effect on the rest of the vaccinated population.


Herd immunity works by having everybody who can get vaccinated, well, get vaccinated. By greatly reducing the people who can get sick this protects the people who cannot get vaccinated for legitimate reasons, like being too young or weak immune systems.

When people don't get vaccinated despite not having any medical reason not to do so it not only makes the people who can't get vaccinated more vulnerable but gives the disease a chance to mutate and infect people who are only vaccinated against the original strain.
 
2013-09-01 01:31:03 PM

Benevolent Misanthrope: ThePastafarian: Something good happens: "This was the work of God"

Something bad happens: "The Lord works in mysterious ways"

Religion is the pinnacle of circular reasoning.  Since their god is all good, all the good stuff is attributable to him and proof of his goodness.  Since he is all good, all the bad stuff is someone else's fault - usually the victim's, since it's just punishment for their "sins" (i.e., bad decisions and normal imperfection), thus proving their god's goodness.

Seriously, it's the biggest scam in history.  Pretty amazing, actually.



I personally believe the staying-power of Christiantity over most other religions is the whole "You can still go to heaven no matter how many people you murder, just as long as you say you believe in Jesus before you die" bullshiat.

That makes the religion very attractive to lazy people who aren't at all concerned about being good people.
 
2013-09-01 01:31:09 PM

rohar: The hell with the vaccination issue, how is ANYTHING in the retrograde, flat state of Texas named "mountain" anything?


you've not looked at a topology map of the state have you.

now north Texas,I could argue mt anything is a misnomer, but Texas as a state does have mountains.
 
2013-09-01 01:31:17 PM

Gergesa: cause I know Jesus is a healer, so I know he's covered us with the blood," Mwangi says.

I think she may be a worshiper of Khorne.


MORE BLOOD FOR MY KHORNE FLAKES.
 
2013-09-01 01:31:46 PM

rohar: The hell with the vaccination issue, how is ANYTHING in the retrograde, flat state of Texas named "mountain" anything?


I don't know about the area the church is in, but there are mountains in the El Paso area.
 
2013-09-01 01:31:55 PM

Coming on a Bicycle: You don't die from Measles. Or well, hardly anyone dies from Measles. I mean, my kids are vaccinated as well, but certain things in modern day medicine are simply luxury, and that's not bad. But at least be so fair as to acknowledge that, and let's not pretend some parents are complicit in causing the Second Plague here.


You know measles isn't the only disease out there, right?  You know people still get bubonic plague, right?
 
2013-09-01 01:32:00 PM
Things will really get interesting when we start to take matters into our own hands at the design level, DNA-wise.  Tons of fairly simple DNA mods are just waiting to be made, I'm betting.  Turn on all sorts of suppressed traits.  Muscle growth/density alone should be an easy one to crack, future humans should all be at least as strong as chimpanzees.
 
2013-09-01 01:32:15 PM
ThePastafarian:
Something good happens: "This was the work of God"

Something bad happens: "The Lord works in mysterious ways"


this is why I completely lost my faith, after seeing a family member battle ovarian cancer for 4 years. no one should have to go through that level of suffering, regardless of the final outcome.
 
2013-09-01 01:32:25 PM

MithrandirBooga: bigsteve3OOO: If vaccines are effective then a few people not getting them should have zero effect on the rest of the vaccinated population.WRONG.


No, he's right. It has zero affect on the vaccinated population. You pointed out unvaccinated people, though they are unvaccinated by necessity, not by choice.

That's really the point, these parents don't just endanger their children (which is bad enough) but they also endanger people who cannot, for whatever reason, be vaccinated. Their decision has no bearing on me, a healthy vaccinated person. But I'm not so selfish as to only care about myself.
 
2013-09-01 01:32:51 PM
The truth is that you got your facts wrong.
 
2013-09-01 01:33:20 PM
It's a church in Texas.  Someone call Janet Reno. She'll fix it.
 
2013-09-01 01:33:29 PM
It's almost like Someone is trying to tell them something.

And that something is likely "modern medicine".
 
2013-09-01 01:34:34 PM

lokis_mentor: It's a church in Texas.  Someone call Janet Reno. She'll fix it.


90% of this crowd won't get your reference without googling Janet Reno.
 
2013-09-01 01:35:56 PM
Clinicians 1:18

For the teaching of the facts are to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of science.
 
2013-09-01 01:36:22 PM
On the one hand, this is farking hilarious. Enjoy your preventable diseases, you stupid pieces of shiat.

On the other hand, if my kid got measles because some Jesus-freaks decided not to vaccinate, I might be inclined to exercise my second amendment rights at their next congregation.
 
2013-09-01 01:37:08 PM

dumbobruni: ThePastafarian:
Something good happens: "This was the work of God"

Something bad happens: "The Lord works in mysterious ways"

this is why I completely lost my faith, after seeing a family member battle ovarian cancer for 4 years. no one should have to go through that level of suffering, regardless of the final outcome.


Sorry it took that. But welcome to reality.
 
2013-09-01 01:37:11 PM

MithrandirBooga: Benevolent Misanthrope: ThePastafarian: Something good happens: "This was the work of God"

Something bad happens: "The Lord works in mysterious ways"

Religion is the pinnacle of circular reasoning.  Since their god is all good, all the good stuff is attributable to him and proof of his goodness.  Since he is all good, all the bad stuff is someone else's fault - usually the victim's, since it's just punishment for their "sins" (i.e., bad decisions and normal imperfection), thus proving their god's goodness.

Seriously, it's the biggest scam in history.  Pretty amazing, actually.


I personally believe the staying-power of Christiantity over most other religions is the whole "You can still go to heaven no matter how many people you murder, just as long as you say you believe in Jesus before you die" bullshiat.

That makes the religion very attractive to lazy people who aren't at all concerned about being good people.


the lazy people usually miss the boat as well, if there was an actual repentance yea, that's biblical, I mean look at the thieves on the other crosses with Jesus. but a person who does a conversion for a chance to get our of trouble, look at their life afterwards, sadly they usually didn't change, they just started using a bible as a new tactic
 
2013-09-01 01:37:19 PM
Infernalist: lokis_mentor: It's a church in Texas.  Someone call Janet Reno. She'll fix it.

90% of this crowd won't get your reference without googling Janet Reno.


90% of this crowd will fail to see how a dance party will help.
 
2013-09-01 01:37:33 PM

Tigger: Ideas as stupid as these eventually eliminate the individuals who support them. It just takes too farking long.


The problem is that, especially with stuff like infectious diseases, these morons put the rest of us at risk.
 
2013-09-01 01:38:33 PM

sno man: Benevolent Misanthrope: Earlier this week crowds flooded in for regular services. Rose Mwangi had her Bible in hand, and said she's not worried.
 

"Because I know Jesus is a healer, so I know he's covered us with the blood," Mwangi says. "There's no place for fear."

"The concerns we have had are primarily with very young children who have family history of autism and with bundling too many immunizations at one time," she [the pastor] said.
 

"You don't take the word of the guy that's trying to give the shot about what's good and what isn't," he [pastor's father, noted nutbag Kenneth Copland] said.

And Christians wonder why the rest of us think of them as a bunch of servile f*ckwits.

Funny how the take the word of the Pastor, though.


Well, the Pastor offers them truth. The medics just offer pesky, dirty facts.
 
2013-09-01 01:39:30 PM

bigsteve3OOO: If vaccines are effective then a few people not getting them should have zero effect on the rest of the vaccinated population.


In a small, tightly-knit community like this church? The effectiveness of herd immunity in a community of a thousand is far more greatly impacted by a dozen holdouts than in a population of millions. Ever notice that, where there's a cluster of anti-vaxxers, there also tends to be am outbreak of diseases like this? That's what the breakdown of herd immunity looks like.

The vaccine was so effective that we'd completely eradicated measles in the US. Then the farking anti-vaxxer morons came along and ruined it. Good job, idiots.
 
2013-09-01 01:39:46 PM

nmrsnr: MithrandirBooga: bigsteve3OOO: If vaccines are effective then a few people not getting them should have zero effect on the rest of the vaccinated population.WRONG.

No, he's right. It has zero affect on the vaccinated population. You pointed out unvaccinated people, though they are unvaccinated by necessity, not by choice.

That's really the point, these parents don't just endanger their children (which is bad enough) but they also endanger people who cannot, for whatever reason, be vaccinated. Their decision has no bearing on me, a healthy vaccinated person. But I'm not so selfish as to only care about myself.



When you're all done feeling superior, you might want to look up how vaccines actually work, and why the bolded part isn't true.
 
2013-09-01 01:39:50 PM
Okay, let me see if I can get this straight.  In this scenario, the facts are the known knowns, but the truth is the known unknowns.  So until we know the known unknowns, we can't trust the known knowns.  And Pastor Copeland clearly knowns the known unknowns, and he's trying to teach us that he knows what we don't know about the known knowns.   Capisce?

//This has been another episode of Conservative Logic.
 
2013-09-01 01:40:53 PM
Muthafarking public health, how does it work?

Texas. I knew it before I clicked.
 
2013-09-01 01:40:58 PM
On the bright side, this would be a great reality show:  "Tard Circus," where several believers test their faith by swimming in infected blood, eating various contaminated bread, and seeing if they can take a bullet to the face to see how much they love God.  And if they catch something/die, then it's their fault and it's some sin that the announcer, safe in a plastic bubble, can make up on the spot.

It's much better than electing these sad idiots to any positions of power, really.
 
2013-09-01 01:41:23 PM

bigsteve3OOO: If vaccines are effective then a few people not getting them should have zero effect on the rest of the vaccinated population.


If the anti-vac people were spread evenly throughout the population, it wouldn't be a big deal.  But as shown in the article, when they congregate, they create an incubator population where the disease can thrive and evolve, possibly to the point of becoming resistant to the vaccine.  That puts everyone at risk.
 
2013-09-01 01:41:45 PM

Raw_fishFood: bigsteve3OOO: If vaccines are effective then a few people not getting them should have zero effect on the rest of the vaccinated population.

Herd immunity works by having everybody who can get vaccinated, well, get vaccinated. By greatly reducing the people who can get sick this protects the people who cannot get vaccinated for legitimate reasons, like being too young or weak immune systems.

When people don't get vaccinated despite not having any medical reason not to do so it not only makes the people who can't get vaccinated more vulnerable but gives the disease a chance to mutate and infect people who are only vaccinated against the original strain.


Seems like praying to your god of science has not helped you.  Perhaps a different god would.
 
2013-09-01 01:42:04 PM

gilgigamesh: "So I'm going to tell you what the facts are, and the facts are the facts, but then we know the truth. That always overcomes facts," she has said.

I love, love, love that that is an actual quote.

You just can't write self-parody that unconsciously witty, You just can't.


What the good Reverend Snotbrains here has done is actually quite cunning. He applied the rules of politics to science. In politics, you can tell people the facts - the verifiable knowledge - without revealing the truth of your intents, goals, motivations, etc. In science, the facts ARE the truth. Everything else is spin.
 
2013-09-01 01:42:30 PM

gilgigamesh: "So I'm going to tell you what the facts are, and the facts are the facts, but then we know the truth. That always overcomes facts," she has said.

I love, love, love that that is an actual quote.

You just can't write self-parody that unconsciously witty, You just can't.


Maybe God's plan involves using these people as an example for everyone else: 'Don't be this stupid.'
 
F42
2013-09-01 01:42:38 PM

vpb: There actually is a theory called dysgenics Naziism that proposes that people are becoming less healthy because harmful mutations don't die out because of modern medicine.


The phrase "life unworthy of life" (in "Lebensunwertes Leben") was a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthanized" title="Euthanized" class="mw-redirect">euthanized". The term included people with serious medical problems and those considered grossly inferior according to the [1] The euthanasia program was known as
 
2013-09-01 01:43:05 PM

Mister Peejay: 150-200 years ago, I probably wouldn't have lived past childhood, or if I did, I would have been labeled a moron or something because I can't see six inches in front of my face.

/happy little cyborg


You do realize that 150-200 years ago, glasses did exist, right? They aren't necessarily a modern invention.
 
2013-09-01 01:43:06 PM

Tigger: We've known for years that population level genetic variations cannot be sufficiently explained by a simple 'fittest phenotype survives" approach: Kin selection, reciprocal altruism and cooperation all have an impact, and that's just for starters.


This is, therefore, to complex for anyone to understand except for you, which make you the owner of this thread, right?

Get your shots, imbeciles.
 
2013-09-01 01:43:12 PM
I just look at this as a lifeguard at the gene pool.
 
2013-09-01 01:43:14 PM

lokis_mentor: It's a church in Texas.  Someone call Janet Reno. She'll fix it.


Hey, did you catch the latest episode of Friends?
 
2013-09-01 01:43:47 PM

MithrandirBooga: I personally believe the staying-power of Christiantity over most other religions is the whole "You can still go to heaven no matter how many people you murder, just as long as you say you believe in Jesus before you die" bullshiat.

That makes the religion very attractive to lazy people who aren't at all concerned about being good people.


*BING BING BING* We have a winner!
 
2013-09-01 01:44:00 PM

nmrsnr: MithrandirBooga: bigsteve3OOO: If vaccines are effective then a few people not getting them should have zero effect on the rest of the vaccinated population.WRONG.

No, he's right. It has zero affect on the vaccinated population. You pointed out unvaccinated people, though they are unvaccinated by necessity, not by choice.

That's really the point, these parents don't just endanger their children (which is bad enough) but they also endanger people who cannot, for whatever reason, be vaccinated. Their decision has no bearing on me, a healthy vaccinated person. But I'm not so selfish as to only care about myself.


Vaccines aren't 100% effective. It's possible to contract a disease for which you've been vaccinated, just much less likely. Herd immunity works because even a marginally effective vaccine, if applied to an entire population, will drastically reduce each individuals likelihood of encountering someone carrying the pathogen being vaccinated against.
 
2013-09-01 01:44:23 PM

bigsteve3OOO: Seems like praying to your god of science has not helped you. Perhaps a different god would.


Seriously?
 
2013-09-01 01:44:24 PM

Coming on a Bicycle: You don't die from Measles. Or well, hardly anyone dies from Measles. I mean, my kids are vaccinated as well, but certain things in modern day medicine are simply luxury, and that's not bad. But at least be so fair as to acknowledge that, and let's not pretend some parents are complicit in causing the Second Plague here.


That is because we have vaccines. Before then it had a 5% death rate. There was a 33% rate of complications including pneumonia, very deadly before antibiotics, hearing loss, and seizures.
 
F42
2013-09-01 01:44:42 PM

vpb: Besides, it's not too hard to figure out that someone with a fatal genetic flaw who is able to survive and breed because of modern medicine


...does not, therefore, have a fatal flaw. By definition.
 
2013-09-01 01:45:16 PM

bigsteve3OOO: MithrandirBooga: bigsteve3OOO: If vaccines are effective then a few people not getting them should have zero effect on the rest of the vaccinated population.

WRONG.

FTFA:

"Typically, it's the fear that the combination measles-mumps-rubella, or MMR vaccine may have in some way contributed to the epidemic of autism - which has clearly been shown not to be true in study after study," Offit says. He says those who chose to skip vaccines cause serious ripple effects.

There are hundreds of thousands of people in the United States who can't get vaccinated because they're undergoing medical treatment or are too young, for example.

But people who omit vaccinations for whatever reason should only be exposed to vaccinated people therefore no risk.



You must be trolling, because nobody can possibly be this stupid.

bigsteve3OOO: MithrandirBooga: bigsteve3OOO: If vaccines are effective then a few people not getting them should have zero effect on the rest of the vaccinated population.

WRONG.

FTFA:

"Typically, it's the fear that the combination measles-mumps-rubella, or MMR vaccine may have in some way contributed to the epidemic of autism - which has clearly been shown not to be true in study after study," Offit says. He says those who chose to skip vaccines cause serious ripple effects.

There are hundreds of thousands of people in the United States who can't get vaccinated because they're undergoing medical treatment or are too young, for example.

But people who omit vaccinations for whatever reason should only be exposed to vaccinated people therefore no risk.


0/10. I did not enjoy my trolling experience with this troll at all. I would not utilize his services again. Caveat Emptor.
 
2013-09-01 01:45:22 PM

bigsteve3OOO: Raw_fishFood: bigsteve3OOO: If vaccines are effective then a few people not getting them should have zero effect on the rest of the vaccinated population.

Herd immunity works by having everybody who can get vaccinated, well, get vaccinated. By greatly reducing the people who can get sick this protects the people who cannot get vaccinated for legitimate reasons, like being too young or weak immune systems.

When people don't get vaccinated despite not having any medical reason not to do so it not only makes the people who can't get vaccinated more vulnerable but gives the disease a chance to mutate and infect people who are only vaccinated against the original strain.

Seems like praying to your god of science has not helped you.  Perhaps a different god would.


How did you get that from what he wrote? My god that's retarded.
 
2013-09-01 01:45:24 PM
bigsteve3OOO: Seems like praying to your god of science has not helped you. Perhaps a different god would.

I pray to the god of bagel bites, riding mowers, and masturbating with a honey bear. It works.
 
2013-09-01 01:45:31 PM
Frankly, I'm amazed that TX hasn't earned its own Fark tag yet......
 
2013-09-01 01:45:46 PM

bigsteve3OOO: Raw_fishFood: bigsteve3OOO: If vaccines are effective then a few people not getting them should have zero effect on the rest of the vaccinated population.

Herd immunity works by having everybody who can get vaccinated, well, get vaccinated. By greatly reducing the people who can get sick this protects the people who cannot get vaccinated for legitimate reasons, like being too young or weak immune systems.

When people don't get vaccinated despite not having any medical reason not to do so it not only makes the people who can't get vaccinated more vulnerable but gives the disease a chance to mutate and infect people who are only vaccinated against the original strain.

Seems like praying to your god of science has not helped you.  Perhaps a different god would.


24.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-09-01 01:45:48 PM

theorellior: ThePastafarian: Dinki: So let's get this straight-

Parents refuse vaccinations for their kid, kid doesn't get sick- "See, God protects our children!"

Parents refuse vaccinations for their kid, kid gets sick- "This is Gods will!"

Parents get vaccinations for their kid, kid doesn't get sick- "This is Gods will!"

Parents get vaccinations for their kid, kid gets sick - "It's that evil science!"

Something good happens: "This was the work of God"

Something bad happens: "The Lord works in mysterious ways"

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.

Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.

Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?

Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?


And it was said that God created man in his image, and as history has shown, humans can do good and bad things.

Maybe God is just one big human.
 
2013-09-01 01:46:07 PM
Polio vaccines are off limits too?
 
2013-09-01 01:46:59 PM

nmrsnr: MithrandirBooga: bigsteve3OOO: If vaccines are effective then a few people not getting them should have zero effect on the rest of the vaccinated population.WRONG.

No, he's right. It has zero affect on the vaccinated population. You pointed out unvaccinated people, though they are unvaccinated by necessity, not by choice.

That's really the point, these parents don't just endanger their children (which is bad enough) but they also endanger people who cannot, for whatever reason, be vaccinated. Their decision has no bearing on me, a healthy vaccinated person. But I'm not so selfish as to only care about myself.


He's not though. Vaccines are not 100% effective. There are people who have been vaccinated but still find themselves susceptible to the disease. They're a minority, but one should never be under the assumption that you cannot get a disease because you've been vaccinated.

There's a reason you need to be revaccinated for many diseases.
 
2013-09-01 01:47:23 PM

vpb: There actually is a theory called dysgenics that proposes that people are becoming less healthy because harmful mutations don't die out because of modern medicine.


If a species can adopt behaviors that mitigates a mutation's effects, then as far as natural selection is concerned, it isn't harmful.
 
F42
2013-09-01 01:47:27 PM

bigsteve3OOO: But people who omit vaccinations for whatever reason should only be exposed to vaccinated people therefore no risk.


rtfa
 
2013-09-01 01:48:19 PM

MithrandirBooga: Benevolent Misanthrope: ThePastafarian: Something good happens: "This was the work of God"

Something bad happens: "The Lord works in mysterious ways"

Religion is the pinnacle of circular reasoning.  Since their god is all good, all the good stuff is attributable to him and proof of his goodness.  Since he is all good, all the bad stuff is someone else's fault - usually the victim's, since it's just punishment for their "sins" (i.e., bad decisions and normal imperfection), thus proving their god's goodness.

Seriously, it's the biggest scam in history.  Pretty amazing, actually.


I personally believe the staying-power of Christiantity over most other religions is the whole "You can still go to heaven no matter how many people you murder, just as long as you say you believe in Jesus before you die" bullshiat.

That makes the religion very attractive to lazy people who aren't at all concerned about being good people.


They do not want to learn or live like Christ, they just want to have good seats in Heaven; not make the world a better place for everyone but to make their afterlife better.
 
2013-09-01 01:48:44 PM

Mentat: Coming on a Bicycle: You don't die from Measles. Or well, hardly anyone dies from Measles. I mean, my kids are vaccinated as well, but certain things in modern day medicine are simply luxury, and that's not bad. But at least be so fair as to acknowledge that, and let's not pretend some parents are complicit in causing the Second Plague here.

You know measles isn't the only disease out there, right?  You know people still get bubonic plague, right?


And let's not forget that measles may be an uncomfortable but ultimately non-serious disease for most children, if you contract it as an adult you run a MUCH higher risk of serious, permanent damage, like blindness and sterility.
 
2013-09-01 01:49:01 PM

Coming on a Bicycle: You don't die from Measles. Or well, hardly anyone dies from Measles. I mean, my kids are vaccinated as well, but certain things in modern day medicine are simply luxury, and that's not bad. But at least be so fair as to acknowledge that, and let's not pretend some parents are complicit in causing the Second Plague here.


1) Nobody is pretending that it's the plague.

B) Lethality is not the point at all. The point is, it's a stupidly easy disease to not get. The vaccine is so effective now you basically have a choice of getting measles or not getting measles. They chose... poorly.
 
2013-09-01 01:50:04 PM

NeverDrunk23: And it was said that God created man in his image, and as history has shown, humans can do good and bad things.

Maybe God is just one big human.


Pastor Copeland obviously believes God is just one big Texan.
 
2013-09-01 01:50:15 PM

Mentat: vpb: Tigger: The rate of human evolution actually appears to be accelerating. Despite the well-argued claims of a cult comedy's opening credits.

No, It's actual biology, despite the fact that some guy used the idea to make a movie.

Besides, it's not too hard to figure out that someone with a fatal genetic flaw who is able to survive and breed because of modern medicine will pass on his genetic condition instead of becoming a genetic dead end.

You're arguing two completely separate things.  The rate of evolution in the human population has increased, but technology and civilization has also changed the evolutionary parameters under which selection and genetic drift operate.  Natural selection is most definitely still occurring and would actually be predicted to get stronger as the various world populations increasingly intermingle.


And you are missing the point.  No one ever said natural selection (which I think is the wrong term for what humans practice) had to be good for the population.  For every existent animal on earth, there are dozens of extinct ones.  If we assume the classic definition of natural selection, then the strongest "most successful" BREEDERS are the ones pushing evolution.  In many populations, that isn't the one most capable of surviving, as evidenced by extinction.  Furthermore, if we are talking about humans, the people who have the most kids are not necessarily the most adapted to survival.  In point of fact, if you want to go by socio-economic station, they are the least adapted.

I farking hate that movie, because it essentially turns what was an entirely logical conclusion into a dick and fart joke, which makes it very easy for people to dismiss it.  Despite the FACT that it's not inaccurate.

Is evolution happening faster in humans, yes because we are breeding faster, this isn't difficult to understand.  The part you seem to be missing is, evolution isn't necessarily a good thing.  The name implies getting better, but that's not the reality.
 
2013-09-01 01:50:38 PM

F42: vpb: There actually is a theory called dysgenics Naziism that proposes that people are becoming less healthy because harmful mutations don't die out because of modern medicine.

The phrase "life unworthy of life" (in "Lebensunwertes Leben") was a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthanized" title="Euthanized" class="mw-redirect">euthanized". The term included people with serious medical problems and those considered grossly inferior according to the [1] The euthanasia program was known as


In the long run, I believe the worst thing the Nazis did may have been to destroy the nascent eugenics movement.

Divorced from ideas of racial superiority, eugenics makes sense. But suggest anything having to do with improving the genetic fitness of our species, even based on purely objective criteria like stamina or immune function, and everyone screams "OMG HITLER!!1!1!"
 
2013-09-01 01:50:46 PM

olderbudnoweiser: [4.bp.blogspot.com image 634x640]


Came for this.
 
2013-09-01 01:50:49 PM

lokis_mentor: It's a church in Texas.  Someone call Janet Reno. She'll fix it.


We have to get rid of high concentrations of lunatics and child molesters somehow. If the Janet Reno method is the best, let's use it.
 
2013-09-01 01:51:21 PM

bigsteve3OOO: If vaccines are effective then a few people not getting them should have zero effect on the rest of the vaccinated population.


Vaccinated people are less likely than unvaccinated people to become infected once exposed. If that likelihood dropped to zero, then bigsteve3000's statement would be true. But it doesn't, so it isn't.

/ I apologize for responding straight, instead of making a joke answer to what may well have been a joke post
 
2013-09-01 01:51:31 PM

bigsteve3OOO: Seems like praying to your god of science has not helped you.  Perhaps a different god would.


Pretty sure this story is evidence against "praying to god" being an effective alternative to vaccination.
 
2013-09-01 01:51:36 PM

Infernalist: lokis_mentor: It's a church in Texas.  Someone call Janet Reno. She'll fix it.

90% of this crowd won't get your reference without googling Janet Reno.


I did. Lol'd too.
 
2013-09-01 01:54:32 PM
Ban these people from all public services immediately.  There is no reason to compromise herd immunity for the sake of these people's self-destructive beliefs.  It's not worth the deaths of innocent children just to avoid hurting the easily-bruised feelings of the Faithful.

Let them form a leper colony and pray away the measles if they like, but contain them and keep everyone else safe.
 
2013-09-01 01:54:42 PM
fark you, you stupid, mouth breathing, moronic, yearning-for-the-dark-ages dipshiat. Seriously. I hope you die from a horrific disease.

Now that I've let off some steam, I'd like to note that I first read Dr. Jason Terk's name as Dr. Jason Twerk. *shakes fist at media*
 
2013-09-01 01:55:51 PM

Raw_fishFood: bigsteve3OOO: Seems like praying to your god of science has not helped you.  Perhaps a different god would.

Pretty sure this story is evidence against "praying to god" being an effective alternative to vaccination.


It's as effective as rich ass NIMBY anti-vaccers who abstain so their precious snowflakes don't get autism.
 
2013-09-01 01:57:07 PM

Tigger: If you're actually interested this article provides a very superficial overview of the complex interplay between genetic cultural and environmental interplay that is positively affecting the rate of human evolution.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=culture-speeds-up-h um an-evolution


There goes any hope I might have that comments on the Scientific American site would not be dumb as fark. Interesting read, though.
 
2013-09-01 01:58:37 PM
The thing that gets me is that these people are all too happy to put their trust in the "science" that vaccines cause autism, while ignoring the actual science that says otherwise. Just like with the Bible, they pick and choose only the parts they like.
 
2013-09-01 01:58:50 PM
Dear Christians:

Immunization prevents more diseases than prayer ever will.  Insulin treats more diabetes than prayer ever will.  Chemotherapy has cured more cancers than prayer ever will.

Please, please, please educate yourselves for the sake of your own children.
 
2013-09-01 02:00:34 PM
Pray to God but row to shore.
 
2013-09-01 02:00:36 PM
When a liberal celebrity does it: "Ooh lets examine the science, it's good to question big Pharma!"

When a pastor does it: "Haha, dumb hillbillies, they dont bieve in science and modern medicine, what a bunch of rubes!"
 
2013-09-01 02:00:44 PM

Lachwen: And let's not forget that measles may be an uncomfortable but ultimately non-serious disease for most children, if you contract it as an adult you run a MUCH higher risk of serious, permanent damage, like blindness and sterility.


I think it can blind or deafen the young also.
 
gja [TotalFark]
2013-09-01 02:01:10 PM

Tigger: Benevolent Misanthrope: Earlier this week crowds flooded in for regular services. Rose Mwangi had her Bible in hand, and said she's not worried.
 

"Because I know Jesus is a healer, so I know he's covered us with the blood," Mwangi says. "There's no place for fear."

"The concerns we have had are primarily with very young children who have family history of autism and with bundling too many immunizations at one time," she [the pastor] said.
 

"You don't take the word of the guy that's trying to give the shot about what's good and what isn't," he [pastor's father, noted nutbag Kenneth Copland] said.

And Christians wonder why the rest of us think of them as a bunch of servile f*ckwits.

Ideas as stupid as these eventually eliminate the individuals who support them. It just takes too farking long.


Not all of us who identify as Christian are so universally idiotic. Please don't voice your opinion and facts too loudly, though.
The reasonable bunch of us are standing by hoping the ignoramus-oriented lot will eventually kill themselves off due to their stupidity and lack of vision.
If you make too much sense or too much noise they may catch on.......OK, probably not but still.
I say:
enemiesofreason.co.uk
 
2013-09-01 02:01:19 PM

i upped my meds-up yours: NeverDrunk23: And it was said that God created man in his image, and as history has shown, humans can do good and bad things.

Maybe God is just one big human.

Pastor Copeland obviously believes God is just one big Texan.


I doubt there is any possible way to insult God worse than that.
 
2013-09-01 02:01:21 PM

cameroncrazy1984: Mister Peejay: 150-200 years ago, I probably wouldn't have lived past childhood, or if I did, I would have been labeled a moron or something because I can't see six inches in front of my face.

/happy little cyborg

You do realize that 150-200 years ago, glasses did exist, right? They aren't necessarily a modern invention.


You do realize that, 150-200 years ago, the vast number of people who'd need glasses could never afford them.
 
2013-09-01 02:02:48 PM

Mentat: Coming on a Bicycle: You don't die from Measles. Or well, hardly anyone dies from Measles. I mean, my kids are vaccinated as well, but certain things in modern day medicine are simply luxury, and that's not bad. But at least be so fair as to acknowledge that, and let's not pretend some parents are complicit in causing the Second Plague here.

You know measles isn't the only disease out there, right?  You know people still get bubonic plague, right?


Is your point that the Bubonic Plague can be prevented with the Measles vaccin? Or is your point that the Bubonic Plague is treated with antibiotics these days? If you have a point, I'd like to know about it.
 
2013-09-01 02:03:05 PM

r1niceboy: It's like tying my dog up to a fire hydrant, made of bacon, next to a busy highway. It'll be all happiness, but will still all end in tears.


sunglasses.name
 
2013-09-01 02:03:24 PM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: When a liberal celebrity does it: "Ooh lets examine the science, it's good to question big Pharma!"


Who is embracing this argument?  I've never seen anyone defend an anti-vaxxer celebrity other than another anti-vaxxer.  You're just making stuff up so you can complain about being persecuted.
 
2013-09-01 02:03:46 PM

Tigger: Benevolent Misanthrope: Earlier this week crowds flooded in for regular services. Rose Mwangi had her Bible in hand, and said she's not worried.
 

"Because I know Jesus is a healer, so I know he's covered us with the blood," Mwangi says. "There's no place for fear."

"The concerns we have had are primarily with very young children who have family history of autism and with bundling too many immunizations at one time," she [the pastor] said.
 

"You don't take the word of the guy that's trying to give the shot about what's good and what isn't," he [pastor's father, noted nutbag Kenneth Copland] said.

And Christians wonder why the rest of us think of them as a bunch of servile f*ckwits.

Ideas as stupid as these eventually eliminate the individuals who support them. It just takes too farking long.


"The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right." - Mark Twain
 
2013-09-01 02:06:03 PM

limeyfellow: Coming on a Bicycle: You don't die from Measles. Or well, hardly anyone dies from Measles. I mean, my kids are vaccinated as well, but certain things in modern day medicine are simply luxury, and that's not bad. But at least be so fair as to acknowledge that, and let's not pretend some parents are complicit in causing the Second Plague here.

That is because we have vaccines. Before then it had a 5% death rate. There was a 33% rate of complications including pneumonia, very deadly before antibiotics, hearing loss, and seizures.


Yeah, because in those days, there were no other complicating factors to the death rate of Measles. The truth is, we don't know what the death rate of Measles is in the modern day Western world, because we hardly see it. But I would bet dollars to donuts that it's not going to be 5%. We're just too good for that, nowadays.
 
2013-09-01 02:06:28 PM

MithrandirBooga: bigsteve3OOO: If vaccines are effective then a few people not getting them should have zero effect on the rest of the vaccinated population.

WRONG.

FTFA:

"Typically, it's the fear that the combination measles-mumps-rubella, or MMR vaccine may have in some way contributed to the epidemic of autism - which has clearly been shown not to be true in study after study," Offit says. He says those who chose to skip vaccines cause serious ripple effects.

There are hundreds of thousands of people in the United States who can't get vaccinated because they're undergoing medical treatment or are too young, for example.


I'm one of those folks who keeps getting MMR boosters, but my titers keep saying I'm not immune to measles (which is why I keep getting boosters).  I'd be pissed as hell if some Fundie inbred gave me measles despite my best efforts to prevent it from happening.
 
2013-09-01 02:07:35 PM
Wait til they get their wave of pertussis and they have babies dying horrific deaths. That'll learn 'em. Or maybe diphtheria. Diphtheria's pretty farking biblical.

If you've got any concerns about vaccines, do a GIS for diphtheria and then re-consider the validity of your concerns. Also be prepared to be haunted by the image of a "pseudomembrane" forever after.
 
2013-09-01 02:07:47 PM

Lachwen: Mentat: Coming on a Bicycle: You don't die from Measles. Or well, hardly anyone dies from Measles. I mean, my kids are vaccinated as well, but certain things in modern day medicine are simply luxury, and that's not bad. But at least be so fair as to acknowledge that, and let's not pretend some parents are complicit in causing the Second Plague here.

You know measles isn't the only disease out there, right?  You know people still get bubonic plague, right?

And let's not forget that measles may be an uncomfortable but ultimately non-serious disease for most children, if you contract it as an adult you run a MUCH higher risk of serious, permanent damage, like blindness and sterility.


Sure. But that's more of a risk you run in an almost-fully-vaccinated society, than in a hardly-vaccinated-at-all society. Because in the latter environment, you would have had it as a child. So I would contend that you're arguing against yourself here.
 
2013-09-01 02:08:26 PM
I heard the quote in the headline on NPR this morning... The rest of the family wondered what I was yelling about.
 
2013-09-01 02:08:49 PM

Noticeably F.A.T.: Coming on a Bicycle: You don't die from Measles. Or well, hardly anyone dies from Measles. I mean, my kids are vaccinated as well, but certain things in modern day medicine are simply luxury, and that's not bad. But at least be so fair as to acknowledge that, and let's not pretend some parents are complicit in causing the Second Plague here.

1) Nobody is pretending that it's the plague.

B) Lethality is not the point at all. The point is, it's a stupidly easy disease to not get. The vaccine is so effective now you basically have a choice of getting measles or not getting measles. They chose... poorly.


Eh.. which was my point as well?
 
2013-09-01 02:08:52 PM

Raw_fishFood: bigsteve3OOO: If vaccines are effective then a few people not getting them should have zero effect on the rest of the vaccinated population.

Herd immunity works by having everybody who can get vaccinated, well, get vaccinated. By greatly reducing the people who can get sick this protects the people who cannot get vaccinated for legitimate reasons, like being too young or weak immune systems.

When people don't get vaccinated despite not having any medical reason not to do so it not only makes the people who can't get vaccinated more vulnerable but gives the disease a chance to mutate and infect people who are only vaccinated against the original strain.


Thank you so much for posting this. I am always amazed by how many people show up in these threads who don't understand this.

Sure Darwin may take out the stupids, but a lot of undeserving people are gonna suffer too.
 
2013-09-01 02:10:15 PM
"truth overcomes facts" is about the most perfect encapsulation of religion I could ever imagine.
 
2013-09-01 02:10:19 PM

Saul T. Balzac: I'd be pissed as hell if some Fundie inbred gave me measles despite my best efforts to prevent it from happening.


The thing is, anti-vac isn't just the Fundies.

I understand why the Fark wants to label anti-vac as such (since Fundies are like Hitlar or whatever), but avoiding vaccines is hardly confined to the retard fringe of the Xian Fundie movement.
 
2013-09-01 02:10:27 PM

buzzcut73: rohar: The hell with the vaccination issue, how is ANYTHING in the retrograde, flat state of Texas named "mountain" anything?

I don't know about the area the church is in, but there are mountains in the El Paso area.



Those mountains belong to Las Cruces, dammit.  You better be grateful that New Mexico lets you use 'em!
 
2013-09-01 02:12:57 PM

Gergesa: cause I know Jesus is a healer, so I know he's covered us with the blood," Mwangi says.

I think she may be a worshiper of Khorne.


I used to be, but after Follow the Lheadere they just went to shiat.
 
2013-09-01 02:13:16 PM

Coming on a Bicycle: Lachwen: Mentat: Coming on a Bicycle: You don't die from Measles. Or well, hardly anyone dies from Measles. I mean, my kids are vaccinated as well, but certain things in modern day medicine are simply luxury, and that's not bad. But at least be so fair as to acknowledge that, and let's not pretend some parents are complicit in causing the Second Plague here.

You know measles isn't the only disease out there, right?  You know people still get bubonic plague, right?

And let's not forget that measles may be an uncomfortable but ultimately non-serious disease for most children, if you contract it as an adult you run a MUCH higher risk of serious, permanent damage, like blindness and sterility.

Sure. But that's more of a risk you run in an almost-fully-vaccinated society, than in a hardly-vaccinated-at-all society. Because in the latter environment, you would have had it as a child. So I would contend that you're arguing against yourself here.


Vaccinated people HAVE had it as a child.
 
2013-09-01 02:13:48 PM

Coming on a Bicycle: Eh.. which was my point as well?


So, what, you just felt the need to chime in to make sure nobody did what nobody was doing (behaving as though this was some sort of Captain Trips outbreak)?
 
2013-09-01 02:15:19 PM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: When a liberal celebrity does it: "Ooh lets examine the science, it's good to question big Pharma!"

When a pastor does it: "Haha, dumb hillbillies, they dont bieve in science and modern medicine, what a bunch of rubes!"


Pretty sure in both cases the anti-vaccination person is usually labeled a "Dumb motherfarker."
 
2013-09-01 02:20:44 PM

Ilmarinen: Coming on a Bicycle: Lachwen: Mentat: Coming on a Bicycle: You don't die from Measles. Or well, hardly anyone dies from Measles. I mean, my kids are vaccinated as well, but certain things in modern day medicine are simply luxury, and that's not bad. But at least be so fair as to acknowledge that, and let's not pretend some parents are complicit in causing the Second Plague here.

You know measles isn't the only disease out there, right?  You know people still get bubonic plague, right?

And let's not forget that measles may be an uncomfortable but ultimately non-serious disease for most children, if you contract it as an adult you run a MUCH higher risk of serious, permanent damage, like blindness and sterility.

Sure. But that's more of a risk you run in an almost-fully-vaccinated society, than in a hardly-vaccinated-at-all society. Because in the latter environment, you would have had it as a child. So I would contend that you're arguing against yourself here.

Vaccinated people HAVE had it as a child.


Yes. But what I meant is (at the risk of explaining myself to a troll) - that non-vaccinated people walking around in an almost-fully-vaccinated environment, run a much greater risk of catching it as an adult, because they are more mobile as an adult. Our society is the almost-fully-vaccinated environment, and therefore much more dangerous to the non-vaccinated. Were our society the non-vaccinated kind, then people would have had an equal chance to get it as a child (because when you're vaccinated, you get the disease, but you're not - or hardly - contageous). Which is why - to the non-vaccinated person, the non-vaccinated society is the better one. Get my point?
 
2013-09-01 02:22:52 PM

LouDobbsAwaaaay: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: When a liberal celebrity does it: "Ooh lets examine the science, it's good to question big Pharma!"

Who is embracing this argument?  I've never seen anyone defend an anti-vaxxer celebrity other than another anti-vaxxer.  You're just making stuff up so you can complain about being persecuted.


I'm being persecuted? In what way?
 
2013-09-01 02:23:18 PM

ruta: Wait til they get their wave of pertussis and they have babies dying horrific deaths. That'll learn 'em. Or maybe diphtheria. Diphtheria's pretty farking biblical.

If you've got any concerns about vaccines, do a GIS for diphtheria and then re-consider the validity of your concerns. Also be prepared to be haunted by the image of a "pseudomembrane" forever after.


I've actually had pertussis as an adult. I was immunized as a kid. Sometimes the vax loses its efficacy. Relatively mild case, but it still sucked. Got a booster shot once the infection was cleared. My ribs haven't been the same since though.
 
2013-09-01 02:24:17 PM
Pastor preaching against vaccinations at megachurch, which is now the site of a measles outbreak: "So I'm going to tell you what the facts are and the facts are the facts but then we know The Truth™, that always overcomes Libfacts™"

FTFH
 
2013-09-01 02:26:02 PM

Noticeably F.A.T.: Coming on a Bicycle: Eh.. which was my point as well?

So, what, you just felt the need to chime in to make sure nobody did what nobody was doing (behaving as though this was some sort of Captain Trips outbreak)?


Let's just say that anti-anti-vaccers can get a little bit hysterical on their own at times just as well. The risk of getting Measles when you've had your shots, given those shots and the effect of herd immunity, are absolutely negligible. So why the hush? Why the yelling at TV's (see other posts) for the sake of some children (most of whom will be perfectly fine anyway, for reasons see above) of some nut-heads?
 
2013-09-01 02:27:26 PM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: I'm being persecuted? In what way?


Some people indulge others in this "explain my own post back to me" game.  I don't.
 
2013-09-01 02:29:32 PM
On behalf of Texas -- I'd like to apologize for the insane amount of stupid that spews from the people depicted in this article. I live in the DFW, TX area -- and yeah there are a few of those mega churches here and there. What's really messed up is for all the "giving/love/chairity" these people claim to have, when your church occupies 2 city blocks, pays no taxes, and the people running the show (because that's all it really is, a show) are making six or seven figures... just.... fark you church. If they are so against basic science and medicine if I had my way, when they show up at the hospital desperate for care, give them the bible and tell them to pray harder. When their child dies it will be "because they didn't love jesus enough". hah (so much fun twisting their own retard logic against them)

I remember getting my MMR (measles, mumps, rubella) shot as a kid> worked out great seeing as how we were keeping the shiat in "eradicated" status.

I also like how these morons spout "it's the will of god" only when it's convenient... always fun to twist it back on them and tell them it's the will of god that your child get sick of an easily preventable disease because mommy and daddy are too stupid to think for themselves.  In situations like this -- I'd have no problem with making the parents lives a living hell via child protective services. Worse is one of these know it all bible beaters is going to raise the next david koresh someday.
 
2013-09-01 02:30:14 PM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: When a liberal celebrity does it: "Ooh lets examine the science, it's good to question big Pharma!"

When a pastor does it: "Haha, dumb hillbillies, they dont bieve in science and modern medicine, what a bunch of rubes!"


Way to beat the shiat out of that strawman.  I hope it made you feel momentarily brave.
 
2013-09-01 02:30:27 PM

cameroncrazy1984: Mister Peejay: 150-200 years ago, I probably wouldn't have lived past childhood, or if I did, I would have been labeled a moron or something because I can't see six inches in front of my face.

/happy little cyborg

You do realize that 150-200 years ago, glasses did exist, right? They aren't necessarily a modern invention.


They are, in fact, a medieval invention--late thirteenth century. Benjamin Franklin invented bifocals.
 
2013-09-01 02:30:46 PM

Raw_fishFood: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: When a liberal celebrity does it: "Ooh lets examine the science, it's good to question big Pharma!"

When a pastor does it: "Haha, dumb hillbillies, they dont bieve in science and modern medicine, what a bunch of rubes!"

Pretty sure in both cases the anti-vaccination person is usually labeled a "Dumb motherfarker."


Yeah, I don't see hordes of liberals rushing to support Jenny McCarthy.  The anti-vax crowd is laughed at pretty universally, doesn't matter if it's got its roots in religion or new age foofery.
 
2013-09-01 02:31:56 PM

Benevolent Misanthrope: Earlier this week crowds flooded in for regular services. Rose Mwangi had her Bible in hand, and said she's not worried.
 

"Because I know Jesus is a healer, so I know he's covered us with the blood," Mwangi says. "There's no place for fear."

"The concerns we have had are primarily with very young children who have family history of autism and with bundling too many immunizations at one time," she [the pastor] said.
 

"You don't take the word of the guy that's trying to give the shot about what's good and what isn't," he [pastor's father, noted nutbag Kenneth Copland] said.

And Christians wonder why the rest of us think of them as a bunch of servile f*ckwits.


Measure all by the action of one. You're a straight thinker.
 
2013-09-01 02:32:27 PM

Dinki: So let's get this straight-

Parents get vaccinations for their kid, kid doesn't get sick- "This is Gods will!"


Reminds me of this story:

This is a story of a man, who was a firm believer of God.

One day it began to rain very heavily. It kept raining and a big flood came.

The man climbed up on the roof of his house, and knew that he would be ok. God would protect him.

It kept raining and now the water had reached his waist. A boat came by and a guy in the boat said: "Hey, jump in. We will take you with us".

"No thanks", said the man. "I'm a firm believer in God. He will rescue me". He sent the boat away.

It kept on raining and now the water had reached his neck. Another boat came by and a guy in the boat said: "You look like you could need some help. Jump in and we will take you with us".

"No", said the man. "I'm a firm believer in God. He will rescue me. Don't worry about me". The boat sailed away.

It still rained and the water now reached his mouth. A helicopter came by and a guy in the helicopter threw down a rope and said: "Hi there my friend. Climb up. We will rescue you".

"No", said the man. "I'm a firm believer in God. He will rescue me. I know he will". The helicopter flew away.

It kept on raining, and finally the man drowned.

When the man died, he went to heaven. When entering Heaven, he had an interview with God.
After giving a polite greeting and sitting down, the man asked: "Where were you. I waited and waited. I was sure you would rescue me, as I have been a firm believer all my life, and have only done good to others. So where were you when I needed you?"

God scratched His confused looking face and answered: "I don't get it either. I sent you two boats and a helicopter".


/"I sent vaccines and medicines and doctors. Why did you refuse them?"
 
2013-09-01 02:32:51 PM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: When a pastor does it: "Haha, dumb hillbillies, they dont bieve in science and modern medicine, what a bunch of rubes!"


Doesn't it bother you that, to get your "point" across, you have to lie?
 
2013-09-01 02:34:07 PM

theorellior: ThePastafarian: Dinki: So let's get this straight-

Parents refuse vaccinations for their kid, kid doesn't get sick- "See, God protects our children!"

Parents refuse vaccinations for their kid, kid gets sick- "This is Gods will!"

Parents get vaccinations for their kid, kid doesn't get sick- "This is Gods will!"

Parents get vaccinations for their kid, kid gets sick - "It's that evil science!"

Something good happens: "This was the work of God"

Something bad happens: "The Lord works in mysterious ways"

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.

Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.

Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?

Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?


I wish that I was familiar with Epicurus back in my catholic high school days.
 
2013-09-01 02:35:05 PM

I_Can't_Believe_it's_not_Boutros: cameroncrazy1984: Mister Peejay: 150-200 years ago, I probably wouldn't have lived past childhood, or if I did, I would have been labeled a moron or something because I can't see six inches in front of my face.

/happy little cyborg

You do realize that 150-200 years ago, glasses did exist, right? They aren't necessarily a modern invention.

They are, in fact, a medieval invention--late thirteenth century. Benjamin Franklin invented bifocals.


Correct. The idea that glasses were some sort of novelty around the time of the Revolution is hilarious.
 
2013-09-01 02:36:51 PM

theorellior: Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.

Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.

Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?

Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?


The critical flaw in this logical argument is the assumption of God being male. God's a biatch. Period.
 
2013-09-01 02:37:42 PM

Lionel Mandrake: Benevolent Misanthrope: "You don't take the word of the guy that's trying to give the shot about what's good and what isn't," he [pastor's father, noted nutbag Kenneth Copland] said.

You'd think a prosperity theologian would want his suckers - er, congregants - to stay healthy.  It's hard to convince corpses that Jesus loves rich people most of all, and that the first step to becoming rich is robust tithing.

Of course, if you can get them to include the Church in their wills...ka-ching!!  I mean, hallelujah!!


you know, I'll go back and read the rest of the comments, but I had to get this in quickly.

Some years back in NH, I used to listen to a religious talk radio network on the radio during long commutes to work.  I had them on the speed numbers right beside NPR, which was right beside the local metal station.  So when Metalica came on, I'd check NPR, then try and laugh my way through the fundy station for a while before going back to NPR or metal.  So one day I'm cruising though the channels and I hear one of the fundy pastors come on, and I recognize the voice.  He's on all the time.  He's relating a story where one of his flock is asking him how much he should give to the local church.  He says he gives 10% tithe, but he feels empty inside.  As though he had more to give.  Rather than asking for him to volunteer, to give of his time the greedy pastor shows his true colors and goes right for the pocketbook, telling this well-off flock-member that he should give more of his income, 20-30%.  To give until it hurts, for "That is the path to heaven."

yeah, right about there I lost my faith in organized religion.

/not in God, just the greed induced lust of the clergy
 
2013-09-01 02:41:17 PM

Coming on a Bicycle: Yes. But what I meant is (at the risk of explaining myself to a troll) - that non-vaccinated people walking around in an almost-fully-vaccinated environment, run a much greater risk of catching it as an adult, because they are more mobile as an adult. Our society is the almost-fully-vaccinated environment, and therefore much more dangerous to the non-vaccinated. Were our society the non-vaccinated kind, then people would have had an equal chance to get it as a child (because when you're vaccinated, you get the disease, but you're not - or hardly - contageous). Which is why - to the non-vaccinated person, the non-vaccinated society is the better one. Get my point?


A non-vaccinated person can easily become a vaccinated person, especially in a society where almost everybody is vaccinated, so the problem should be over soon.
There may be people who can't get vaccinated for medical reasons, but they'd still be better of in a society where people don't become contageous.
 
2013-09-01 02:44:49 PM
FTFA:

"This is a good example, unfortunately, of how birds of a feather flock together," Terk says. "If you have individuals who are vaccine-hesitant or vaccine-hostile, they congregate together, and that creates its own unique situation where a population of individuals is susceptible to getting the very disease that they decided they don't want to protect themselves from."

...and thus the problem solves itself.
 
2013-09-01 02:45:15 PM

Apos: Are Jenny McCarthy and Rob Schneider among their faithful congregation?


Holy crap, who in their right mind would give Schneider any credibility on medical issues?  It's unbelievable.
 
2013-09-01 02:46:20 PM

Kahabut: Mentat: vpb: Tigger: The rate of human evolution actually appears to be accelerating. Despite the well-argued claims of a cult comedy's opening credits.

No, It's actual biology, despite the fact that some guy used the idea to make a movie.

Besides, it's not too hard to figure out that someone with a fatal genetic flaw who is able to survive and breed because of modern medicine will pass on his genetic condition instead of becoming a genetic dead end.

You're arguing two completely separate things.  The rate of evolution in the human population has increased, but technology and civilization has also changed the evolutionary parameters under which selection and genetic drift operate.  Natural selection is most definitely still occurring and would actually be predicted to get stronger as the various world populations increasingly intermingle.

And you are missing the point.  No one ever said natural selection (which I think is the wrong term for what humans practice) had to be good for the population.  For every existent animal on earth, there are dozens of extinct ones.  If we assume the classic definition of natural selection, then the strongest "most successful" BREEDERS are the ones pushing evolution.  In many populations, that isn't the one most capable of surviving, as evidenced by extinction.  Furthermore, if we are talking about humans, the people who have the most kids are not necessarily the most adapted to survival.  In point of fact, if you want to go by socio-economic station, they are the least adapted.

I farking hate that movie, because it essentially turns what was an entirely logical conclusion into a dick and fart joke, which makes it very easy for people to dismiss it.  Despite the FACT that it's not inaccurate.

Is evolution happening faster in humans, yes because we are breeding faster, this isn't difficult to understand.  The part you seem to be missing is, evolution isn't necessarily a good thing.  The name implies getting better, but that's n ...


No I'm not missing the point.  At no point did I say that evolution was progressive, A) because I study evolution for a living and know better and B) that had nothing to do with the original comment.  And no, evolution is not happening faster because we're breeding faster (I'm pretty sure gestation is still 9 months), it's because the effective population size of humanity is increasing because of globalization (intermingling of previously isolated populations) and a higher carrying capacity via technology that allows for a larger population size.
 
2013-09-01 02:47:22 PM

Coming on a Bicycle: Ilmarinen: Coming on a Bicycle: Lachwen: Mentat: Coming on a Bicycle: You don't die from Measles. Or well, hardly anyone dies from Measles. I mean, my kids are vaccinated as well, but certain things in modern day medicine are simply luxury, and that's not bad. But at least be so fair as to acknowledge that, and let's not pretend some parents are complicit in causing the Second Plague here.

You know measles isn't the only disease out there, right?  You know people still get bubonic plague, right?

And let's not forget that measles may be an uncomfortable but ultimately non-serious disease for most children, if you contract it as an adult you run a MUCH higher risk of serious, permanent damage, like blindness and sterility.

Sure. But that's more of a risk you run in an almost-fully-vaccinated society, than in a hardly-vaccinated-at-all society. Because in the latter environment, you would have had it as a child. So I would contend that you're arguing against yourself here.

Vaccinated people HAVE had it as a child.

Yes. But what I meant is (at the risk of explaining myself to a troll) - that non-vaccinated people walking around in an almost-fully-vaccinated environment, run a much greater risk of catching it as an adult, because they are more mobile as an adult. Our society is the almost-fully-vaccinated environment, and therefore much more dangerous to the non-vaccinated. Were our society the non-vaccinated kind, then people would have had an equal chance to get it as a child (because when you're vaccinated, you get the disease, but you're not - or hardly - contageous). Which is why - to the non-vaccinated person, the non-vaccinated society is the better one. Get my point?


Or maybe everyone that is not allergic should be vaccinated. If everyone who is not allergic is vaccinated, given the low incidence of allergies to the vaccinations, the allergic people will have a small chance of getting sick. The problem starts when foolish people stop vaccinating their children for made-up, unsupported, and demonstrably false reasons.

Also for the record, measles may not be that bad of a disease as a child, but preventing the disease in healthy children is not the point of the vaccine. The main point of the MMR vaccine is to control when people become immune to the virus; we don't want pregnant women getting those diseases because it can cause birth defects or even kill the kid. We also don't want six-year-olds passing their measles to babies, or those who have compromised immune systems, which they come into contact with.  Six-year-olds have terrible hygiene habits.

Either way, your argument is kinda silly because in a non-vaccinated society, more non-vaccinated people will die from MMR than people in an almost fully vaccinated society, if only because there are simply more non-vaccinated people to die. I am sure the percentage dead will be greater in the non-vaccinated society too because of rarity of the disease in the almost fully vaccinated society. In other words, a non-vaccinated person will be less likely to encounter the virus.

In conclusion: Don't be a fool, get your kid vaccinated.
 
2013-09-01 02:48:11 PM
But would those Good Christians refuse to get a transplant for themselves or their loved ones?  Are they refusing to consume pharmaceuticals like anti-hypertensives and statins and anti-diabetes meds and Cialis?

No.

/farking hypocrites
 
2013-09-01 02:50:31 PM

SilentStrider: If I weren't agnostic i'd be praying that this guy gets struck down by lightning.


It's still okay to pray if you seriously doubt it will do any good.
 
2013-09-01 02:50:44 PM
Medical advice from your pastor?  Well there's your problem, see a doctor you farking dopes.
 
2013-09-01 02:50:58 PM

Coming on a Bicycle: Mentat: Coming on a Bicycle: You don't die from Measles. Or well, hardly anyone dies from Measles. I mean, my kids are vaccinated as well, but certain things in modern day medicine are simply luxury, and that's not bad. But at least be so fair as to acknowledge that, and let's not pretend some parents are complicit in causing the Second Plague here.

You know measles isn't the only disease out there, right?  You know people still get bubonic plague, right?

Is your point that the Bubonic Plague can be prevented with the Measles vaccin? Or is your point that the Bubonic Plague is treated with antibiotics these days? If you have a point, I'd like to know about it.


Your original comment implied that it was no big deal because it's just measles.  It ignored the fact that measles has been eradicated in the US and that the only reason it appeared in this community is because one of its members took a trip to Indonesia and contracted it there.  He could just as easily picked up any disease.  There is a bubonic plague outbreak going on right now in central Asia.  There are still areas of this world where polio exists.  The anti-vacc community is susecptible to all of them, not just the relatively minor diseases like measles or mumps.  If the person in question had visited Kazakhstan instead and decided to try some roasted marmot, this church could be suffering from the Plague right now.

Do you get the point now, or should I use smaller words?
 
2013-09-01 02:52:09 PM
This is what morons believe.
 
2013-09-01 02:52:22 PM

bigsteve3OOO: If vaccines are effective then a few people not getting them should have zero effect on the rest of the vaccinated population.


Truck driver skips flu shot, gets flu, drives anyway and hits a school bus.
 
gja [TotalFark]
2013-09-01 02:54:41 PM

Huggermugger: But would those Good Christians refuse to get a transplant for themselves or their loved ones?  Are they refusing to consume pharmaceuticals like anti-hypertensives and statins and anti-diabetes meds and Cialis?

No.

/farking hypocrites


Ah, I see the problem with that statement....you used the word "good" where there is none.
'Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'
I think that covers not being considerate enough to not possibly become a foothold for, or spreader of, horrific disease to your fellow man.
 
2013-09-01 02:58:14 PM
Doesn't it say something that when I went to college I had to provide proof of my immunization?
 
2013-09-01 02:59:20 PM

bigsteve3OOO: Raw_fishFood: bigsteve3OOO: If vaccines are effective then a few people not getting them should have zero effect on the rest of the vaccinated population.

Herd immunity works by having everybody who can get vaccinated, well, get vaccinated. By greatly reducing the people who can get sick this protects the people who cannot get vaccinated for legitimate reasons, like being too young or weak immune systems.

When people don't get vaccinated despite not having any medical reason not to do so it not only makes the people who can't get vaccinated more vulnerable but gives the disease a chance to mutate and infect people who are only vaccinated against the original strain.

Seems like praying to your god of science has not helped you.  Perhaps a different god would.


You know that old joke about the farmer in the flood... First a neighbor comes by with a canoe, and the farmer sends him away saying "I have faith in god, god will protect me." The flood gets higher and another neighbor comes by in a speedboat, and again the farmer waves him off saying, "I have faith in god, god will protect me." Then later the flood has gotten so high the farmer is now stuck on his roof. A national guard helicopter comes to get him and he sends them away too, once again saying, "I have faith in god, god will protect me."

The flood finally washes away his home and kills him. He gets to heaven and is at the pearly gates and demands an answer from St. Peter, "I had all my faith in god, why did he forsake me? Why wouldn't he protect me?" St. Peter incredulously replies, "What are you talking about? He sent you a canoe, he sent you a speedboat, he sent you a helicopter... what more did you want?"

This old joke nicely illustrates the stupidity of those who eschew vaccinations due to "faith in god" - which is really just ignorance in reality. "I sent you doctors and scientists and vaccines... What more did you want?"
 
2013-09-01 03:01:17 PM

Benevolent Misanthrope: jayhawk88: "Because I know Jesus is a healer, so I know he's covered us with the blood," Mwangi says. "There's no place for fear."

And if she were to contract measles, that would just be God testing her faith and giving her an opportunity to get closer to Him.

Read the Book of Job sometime.  Her god is a real prick that way.


The story of Job was one of the ones that convinced me I wasn't religious. As a kid, I had tried to be Christian for years, but I could just never get past the fact that God ruined that guy's life because he was good and faithful.
 
2013-09-01 03:04:05 PM

mhuckins: Dinki: So let's get this straight-

Parents refuse vaccinations for their kid, kid doesn't get sick- "See, God protects our children!"

Parents refuse vaccinations for their kid, kid gets sick- "This is Gods will!"

Parents get vaccinations for their kid, kid doesn't get sick- "This is Gods will!"

Parents get vaccinations for their kid, kid gets sick - "It's that evil science!"

Don't forget parents refuse vaccinations for their kid, kid gets sick, infects someone allergic to the vaccination- "oops".

I don't want to find out the hard way that I am not immune to measles because some dickhead chose not to vaccinate their kids. The odds of a serious allergic reaction are so small there is no reason not to inoculate your kids.


They'd better not try any of this nonsense in Madagascar.
 
2013-09-01 03:05:32 PM

Coming on a Bicycle: You don't die from Measles. Or well, hardly anyone dies from Measles. I mean, my kids are vaccinated as well, but certain things in modern day medicine are simply luxury, and that's not bad. But at least be so fair as to acknowledge that, and let's not pretend some parents are complicit in causing the Second Plague here.


But there is the risk of deafness and mental retardation in kids. Also, there's a neurodegenerative condition that can show up years after clearing the measles.
 
2013-09-01 03:09:49 PM

OtherLittleGuy: Dinki: So let's get this straight-

Parents get vaccinations for their kid, kid doesn't get sick- "This is Gods will!"


Reminds me of this story:

This is a story of a man, who was a firm believer of God.

One day it began to rain very heavily. It kept raining and a big flood came.

The man climbed up on the roof of his house, and knew that he would be ok. God would protect him.

It kept raining and now the water had reached his waist. A boat came by and a guy in the boat said: "Hey, jump in. We will take you with us".

"No thanks", said the man. "I'm a firm believer in God. He will rescue me". He sent the boat away.

It kept on raining and now the water had reached his neck. Another boat came by and a guy in the boat said: "You look like you could need some help. Jump in and we will take you with us".

"No", said the man. "I'm a firm believer in God. He will rescue me. Don't worry about me". The boat sailed away.

It still rained and the water now reached his mouth. A helicopter came by and a guy in the helicopter threw down a rope and said: "Hi there my friend. Climb up. We will rescue you".

"No", said the man. "I'm a firm believer in God. He will rescue me. I know he will". The helicopter flew away.

It kept on raining, and finally the man drowned.

When the man died, he went to heaven. When entering Heaven, he had an interview with God.
After giving a polite greeting and sitting down, the man asked: "Where were you. I waited and waited. I was sure you would rescue me, as I have been a firm believer all my life, and have only done good to others. So where were you when I needed you?"

God scratched His confused looking face and answered: "I don't get it either. I sent you two boats and a helicopter".


/"I sent vaccines and medicines and doctors. Why did you refuse them?"


Dangit! I had my post all written up, but got interrupted and couldn't post it for a little bit... But yeah, exactly. People who eschew modern medical breakthroughs like vaccines in favor of prayer, depending on "god's will" to protect them are really only - poorly - trying to rationalize away their arrogant, willful ignorance. If you believe in god, then logically he sent doctors, scientists, vaccines and medicine to protect you. By shunning these things in favor of putting god to a "foolish test" instead a believer is actually rejecting god's will and his plan in their aforementioned arrogance and ignorance.

If you're the kind of person who believes in such foolish nonsense such as deities of course...
 
2013-09-01 03:10:36 PM

Kahabut: I farking hate that movie, because it essentially turns what was an entirely logical conclusion into a dick and fart joke, which makes it very easy for people to dismiss it.  Despite the FACT that it's not inaccurate.


IMO the greatest flaw in that movie (idiocracy) is that it conflates stupidity with ignorance. They are not the same. Both the ignorant and the stupid are likely to breed like bunnies, but the stupid will end up darwinning themselves with meth or krokodil, or in "Hey Cletus! Watch this!" moments. The smart but ignorant would somehow muddle along.

We fangless, clawless, thin-skinned creatures are absolutely dependent on a working brain to survive. We're goners without it.
 
2013-09-01 03:14:16 PM

Coming on a Bicycle: You don't die from Measles. Or well, hardly anyone dies from Measles. I mean, my kids are vaccinated as well, but certain things in modern day medicine are simply luxury, and that's not bad. But at least be so fair as to acknowledge that, and let's not pretend some parents are complicit in causing the Second Plague here.


http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs286/en/
"Measles is a highly contagious, serious disease caused by a virus. In 1980, before widespread vaccination, measles caused an estimated 2.6 million deaths each year. "

Just because we do a decent job of keeping it from being a rampant plague, doesn't mean we should lessen the severity of its prevention.
 
2013-09-01 03:16:53 PM
Ah the jackpot of Derp. Texas and a Megachurch
 
2013-09-01 03:18:35 PM

J. Frank Parnell: Promised myself i wouldn't post in another pro-vaccination troll thread.

/dammit



Don't worry....... this one Could evolve differently.
 
2013-09-01 03:19:28 PM

Noticeably F.A.T.: Coming on a Bicycle: You don't die from Measles. Or well, hardly anyone dies from Measles. I mean, my kids are vaccinated as well, but certain things in modern day medicine are simply luxury, and that's not bad. But at least be so fair as to acknowledge that, and let's not pretend some parents are complicit in causing the Second Plague here.

1) Nobody is pretending that it's the plague.

B) Lethality is not the point at all. The point is, it's a stupidly easy disease to not get. The vaccine is so effective now you basically have a choice of getting measles or not getting measles. They chose... poorly.


Furthermore, it's not just about people dying from Measles -- which of course people aren't dying from. A significant number of the vaccine preventable diseases have medical complications: http://www.cdc.gov/measles/about/complications.html

Risking deafness, possible brain damage, miscarriage or low-weight babies is part of the message as well.
 
GBB
2013-09-01 03:21:10 PM
wp.patheos.com.s3.amazonaws.com
 
2013-09-01 03:21:56 PM

GrayGush: Coming on a Bicycle: You don't die from Measles. Or well, hardly anyone dies from Measles. I mean, my kids are vaccinated as well, but certain things in modern day medicine are simply luxury, and that's not bad. But at least be so fair as to acknowledge that, and let's not pretend some parents are complicit in causing the Second Plague here.

http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs286/en/
"Measles is a highly contagious, serious disease caused by a virus. In 1980, before widespread vaccination, measles caused an estimated 2.6 million deaths each year. "

Just because we do a decent job of keeping it from being a rampant plague, doesn't mean we should lessen the severity of its prevention.


And the symptoms, like fever - which was a major part of the deaths in the past, can be managed with over the counter meds. Antibiotics take care of any secondary infections. So for most it is survivable, with the assistance of some older "acceptable" medications. It's a matter of degree I guess.
 
2013-09-01 03:22:02 PM

gilgigamesh: "So I'm going to tell you what the facts are, and the facts are the facts, but then we know the truth. That always overcomes facts," she has said.

I love, love, love that that is


Do you wonder if she is invoking Poe's law or if she's really what happens when her mother drinks too much homemade corn whiskey when she was pregnant with her.
 
2013-09-01 03:22:14 PM

Coming on a Bicycle: You don't die from Measles. Or well, hardly anyone dies from Measles. I mean, my kids are vaccinated as well, but certain things in modern day medicine are simply luxury, and that's not bad. But at least be so fair as to acknowledge that, and let's not pretend some parents are complicit in causing the Second Plague here.


Apparently someone isn't aware of the complications of measles, then (like, oh, fun things like subacute sclerosing panencephalitis and other forms of measles encephalitis)--not only can measles kill, it also can pretty much render you into a rutabaga if one is unlucky, so to speak.

Also, we have a LOT more immunocompromised people (both in numbers and as a percentage of the population) than we had in the days of "pox parties"--not just folks with HIV (and AIDS and ARC--the latter being basically "pre-AIDS") but kids born with immunodeficiencies, people with asthma, people with rheumatoid arthritis and Crohn's disease and psoriasis and multiple sclerosis (which anymore are routinely treated with certain immunosuppressants, now that we realise that these are autoimmune diseases), people who've had organ and tissue transplants (again, immunosuppressants happen), even shiat like type I and type II and OTHER forms of diabetes (some of which are autoimmunity-linked; all diabetes makes you more susceptible to things going bad with getting sick, and there is a theory that in at least SOME types of autoimmune diabetes the downward spiral IS triggered by catching a virus in childhood).

And now you all are going to have the rare pleasure of seeing me go on a DOUBLE rant.  I'm going to TRY to keep this short and sweet:

a) Vaccines do not cause autism.  Your gebroken swimmers and eggs cause autism (probably because they're too old or you have a milder version of the gebrokenness); almost all ASD that does not have some other form of known genetic basis is a neural and cellular migration and differentiation disorder (and it probably affects all cells)--one we can literally detect in the placenta, the VERY FIRST ORGAN that forms in an embryo, which is a major clue-by-four that it's broken genes that are responsible.

(Mind, these prosperity-gospel-peddling chucklefarks probably don't even BELIEVE in gene and germ theory, thinking diseases are caused by demonic oppression or possession...yes, unfortunately, I grew up in a church of folks who would be Fellow Travellers to the Texas megachurch chucklefarks, hence my unfortunate knowledge.  I'm mostly posting this for REASONABLE people.)

b) Prosperity gospel maims, kills, and is probably one of the very few religious movements that I think NEEDS to be given a very hairy eyeball by CPS officials because of the real risk of damage to kids who HAVE NO FARKING SAY.  You know, like those poor kids who are farking sick with the measles thanks to the "name it and claim yer healing!" and "Diseases are really the result of demons that infest you because your distant ancestors read HOROSCOPES!" goddamn bullshiat chucklefarkery.

(Yes, this is a subject that gets me livid to near-Khornate levels.  I've seen where prosperity gospel has killed, firsthand; my smother, who eventually died of a massive heart attack caused by complications of a previous cardiac arrest (which was in turn the result of poorly-controlled diabetes) when she stopped going to cardio rehab thanks to some goddamn name-it-and-claim-it hucksterfark telling her she had a Miraculous Healing Coming.   I lived in effective poverty my entire childhood because said smother would give fully fifty percent of the pre-tax income to the church under the Prosperity Gospel Delusion that somehow the Abrahamic God ran a Ponzi For Christ.  I have PERMANENT, UNCORRECTABLE (nope, not even glasses work) vision impairment in one of my eyes because of the fact aforementioned smother did NOT get the surgery that was recommended (by one of the best pediatric opthamologists in the state) but instead went to numerous "prosperity gospel" services to fill the preacher's coffers and try to pray the eye fixed.)

c) I am actually a bit of an apatheist now, in part because I sincerely do believe that if the Abrahamic Deity actually GAVE a literal goddamn about humanity that "prosperity gospel" hucksters would be among the first against the wall (along with religionationalist terrorists like Al Quaida and the Army of God).  Because Prosperity Gospel Farking Kills.

(And this is not just restricted to the Abrahamics; there are certain groups like Soka Gakkai that I would love to see die in a fire and sent to one of the 108 Hells because they're pretty much the Buddhist version of "name it and claim it" chucklefarkery; hell, one of the Korean "name it and claim" it arsecoonts who pretty much popularised the concept of cell churches (one "David" nee "Paul" Yonggi Cho, may the sanshin have a special hell prepared for him) pretty much ADMITS he cribbed the concept from the Nichiren "prosperity gospel" hucksters..)
 
2013-09-01 03:25:22 PM

vpb: There actually is a theory called dysgenics that proposes that people are becoming less healthy because harmful mutations don't die out because of modern medicine.


I think I've heard this theory before:

cdn.stereogum.com
 
2013-09-01 03:26:14 PM

Tigger: vpb: Tigger: Ideas as stupid as these eventually eliminate the individuals who support them. It just takes too farking long.

There is no natural selection anymore.  Stupidity has become survivable because modern society will provide food and medical treatment.

It's more complex than that.

The rate of human evolution actually appears to be accelerating. Despite the well-argued claims of a cult comedy's opening credits.


Evolution does not mean that a population of organisms "get more intelligent" - it just means that they change. That change could also possibly take the form of them getting more stupid. That human evolution appears to be accelerating does not actually contradict the premise of that "cult comedy's opening credits" like you seem to be arguing it does.
 
2013-09-01 03:29:52 PM
God is a part of us. It is not a magic sky wizard, it is an aspect of the mind.

People said this thousands of years ago and this is the age where we will prove it.
 
2013-09-01 03:31:58 PM
Because your science is not 100% effective and in some cases deadly; some people opt out.  You think they are fool.  I think they know statistics.
 
2013-09-01 03:34:59 PM

bigsteve3OOO: Because your science is not 100% effective and in some cases deadly; some people opt out.  You think they are fool.  I think they know statistics.


Wow, and do they. They know exactly what their outcome will be beforehand.

Or, they don't really understand statistics.
 
2013-09-01 03:35:44 PM

Foxxinnia: jayhawk88: "Because I know Jesus is a healer, so I know he's covered us with the blood," Mwangi says. "There's no place for fear."

And if she were to contract measles, that would just be God testing her faith and giving her an opportunity to get closer to Him.

How did our species get to the point it has with all these fatalist farks around?


modern medicine?
 
2013-09-01 03:36:31 PM
Don't feed the troll.
 
2013-09-01 03:37:16 PM
Is there a vaccine for twerking?
 
2013-09-01 03:37:41 PM

Benevolent Misanthrope: Earlier this week crowds flooded in for regular services. Rose Mwangi had her Bible in hand, and said she's not worried.
 

"Because I know Jesus is a healer, so I know he's covered us with the blood," Mwangi says. "There's no place for fear."

"The concerns we have had are primarily with very young children who have family history of autism and with bundling too many immunizations at one time," she [the pastor] said.
 

"You don't take the word of the guy that's trying to give the shot about what's good and what isn't," he [pastor's father, noted nutbag Kenneth Copland] said.

And Christians wonder why the rest of us think of them as a bunch of servile f*ckwits.


paint with a broad strokes much? there are literally tens of millions of Christians in the US but yeah one fringe group in Texas represents all of them.
 
2013-09-01 03:40:20 PM

Kumana Wanalaia: God is a part of us. It is not a magic sky wizard, it is an aspect of the mind.

People said this thousands of years ago and this is the age where we will prove it.



"If we smash in the skulls of these young virgins on a mountaintop our crops will grow better next year!"

"Every day the sun is carried across the sky in the back of a chariot!"

"The world is flat and carried on the back of a turtle!"

"Diseases are caused by evil spirits!"


Those are all things people said thousands of years ago. You're engaging in the logical fallacy of anappeal to ancient wisdom.

People said plenty of utterly idiotic things "thousands of years ago". Something simply being shiat people said a long time ago doesn't make it true, and in fact would give a higher likelihood of the opposite being that our sum total of knowledge has increased exponentially over the millennia by correcting old myths and building on successive generations of discovery and knowledge.
 
2013-09-01 03:40:31 PM

SuperNinjaToad: Benevolent Misanthrope: Earlier this week crowds flooded in for regular services. Rose Mwangi had her Bible in hand, and said she's not worried.
 

"Because I know Jesus is a healer, so I know he's covered us with the blood," Mwangi says. "There's no place for fear."

"The concerns we have had are primarily with very young children who have family history of autism and with bundling too many immunizations at one time," she [the pastor] said.
 

"You don't take the word of the guy that's trying to give the shot about what's good and what isn't," he [pastor's father, noted nutbag Kenneth Copland] said.

And Christians wonder why the rest of us think of them as a bunch of servile f*ckwits.

paint with a broad strokes much? there are literally tens of millions of Christians in the US but yeah one fringe group in Texas represents all of them.


Most of them are at church or eating chicken today.
 
2013-09-01 03:41:02 PM

GBB: [wp.patheos.com.s3.amazonaws.com image 480x543]


Bears repeating.
 
2013-09-01 03:44:09 PM

KrispyKritter: Benevolent Misanthrope: Earlier this week crowds flooded in for regular services. Rose Mwangi had her Bible in hand, and said she's not worried.
 

"Because I know Jesus is a healer, so I know he's covered us with the blood," Mwangi says. "There's no place for fear."

"The concerns we have had are primarily with very young children who have family history of autism and with bundling too many immunizations at one time," she [the pastor] said.
 

"You don't take the word of the guy that's trying to give the shot about what's good and what isn't," he [pastor's father, noted nutbag Kenneth Copland] said.

And Christians wonder why the rest of us think of them as a bunch of servile f*ckwits.

Measure all by the action of one. You're a straight thinker.


Ummm... are you honestly going to pretend that this is an unprecedented, isolated incident of the credulous being fleeced by the church?  Really?  Seriously?
 
2013-09-01 03:44:47 PM
I'm sad that no one has photoshopped the picture in TFA to say "Measle Mountain Church".
 
2013-09-01 03:44:58 PM

bigsteve3OOO: Because your science is not 100% effective and in some cases deadly; some people opt out.  You think they are fool.  I think they know statistics.


People who eschew vaccines because of either thoroughly debunked rumors/pseudo-science or because in their arrogant willful ignorance wish to put their deity to a foolish test rather than make use of the medicine and doctors he's provided ARE fools even if you are a believer in the supernatural.

The only thing you're proving in this thread is that you don't understand science, statistics OR theology and shouldn't be careless with the use of the word "fool".
 
2013-09-01 03:45:27 PM

SuperNinjaToad: Benevolent Misanthrope: Earlier this week crowds flooded in for regular services. Rose Mwangi had her Bible in hand, and said she's not worried.
 

"Because I know Jesus is a healer, so I know he's covered us with the blood," Mwangi says. "There's no place for fear."

"The concerns we have had are primarily with very young children who have family history of autism and with bundling too many immunizations at one time," she [the pastor] said.
 

"You don't take the word of the guy that's trying to give the shot about what's good and what isn't," he [pastor's father, noted nutbag Kenneth Copland] said.

And Christians wonder why the rest of us think of them as a bunch of servile f*ckwits.

paint with a broad strokes much? there are literally tens of millions of Christians in the US but yeah one fringe group in Texas represents all of them.


See my comment immediately previous.
 
2013-09-01 03:46:55 PM
"You don't take the word of the guy that's trying to give the shot about what's good and what isn't," he said.

The, uh, doctor? (I know doctors normally don't actually give shots...shut up.) I guess he is one of the smart people, which would put him on the "other" side, according to Rick "Foamy" Santorum. You don't want to just take the word of a guy on the other side. Our ignorance is at least as good as his knowledge.

MY EYES ARE WIDE OPEN...SHEEPLE. Yours should be too.
 
2013-09-01 03:48:59 PM

Benevolent Misanthrope: SuperNinjaToad: Benevolent Misanthrope: Earlier this week crowds flooded in for regular services. Rose Mwangi had her Bible in hand, and said she's not worried.
 

"Because I know Jesus is a healer, so I know he's covered us with the blood," Mwangi says. "There's no place for fear."

"The concerns we have had are primarily with very young children who have family history of autism and with bundling too many immunizations at one time," she [the pastor] said.
 

"You don't take the word of the guy that's trying to give the shot about what's good and what isn't," he [pastor's father, noted nutbag Kenneth Copland] said.

And Christians wonder why the rest of us think of them as a bunch of servile f*ckwits.

paint with a broad strokes much? there are literally tens of millions of Christians in the US but yeah one fringe group in Texas represents all of them.

See my comment immediately previous.


I agree it is not an isolated incident but it is far from mainstream Christian beliefs. Heck the church I go to has at least half a dozen physicians in our congregation.
 
2013-09-01 03:51:56 PM

PainfulItching: GrayGush: Coming on a Bicycle: You don't die from Measles. Or well, hardly anyone dies from Measles. I mean, my kids are vaccinated as well, but certain things in modern day medicine are simply luxury, and that's not bad. But at least be so fair as to acknowledge that, and let's not pretend some parents are complicit in causing the Second Plague here.

http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs286/en/
"Measles is a highly contagious, serious disease caused by a virus. In 1980, before widespread vaccination, measles caused an estimated 2.6 million deaths each year. "

Just because we do a decent job of keeping it from being a rampant plague, doesn't mean we should lessen the severity of its prevention.

And the symptoms, like fever - which was a major part of the deaths in the past, can be managed with over the counter meds. Antibiotics take care of any secondary infections. So for most it is survivable, with the assistance of some older "acceptable" medications. It's a matter of degree I guess.


Again, not farking true in the case of most vaccine-preventable diseases, and CERTAINLY not true in the case of measles.

Measles, in case you're not aware (and honestly most people aren't), is basically human rinderpest; cow rinderpest (which is now extinct outside of labs, thanks to a massive livestock immunisation program; the second disease we wiped out after smallpox) crossed over to humans sometime in the late Dark Ages to early Middle Ages, and also crossed over into dogs sometime in the late Middle Ages separately (as canine distemper).

Measles is a morbillivirus, and morbilliviruses tend to kill in four different ways:

a) Attacking the gastrointestinal system (common in ovine rinderpest aka "peste-de-petits-ruminants" and canine distemper as well as in regular rinderpest before we wiped it out)--basically wrecks the intestines and causes gastric bleeds and diarrhea.

b) Causing a general haemorrhagic fever (common in ovine rinderpest and (before we wiped it out) cow rinderpest; a common presentation of measles proper when isolated peoples are exposed to it for the first time (and apparently common when rinderpest crossed over into humans and became measles); common in canine distemper; common in phocine distemper (aka seal distemper); the typical presentation in lions that contract canine distemper).  Even the famous red rash of measles is a mild form of this--it's literally a haemorrhagic rash.

c) A general weakening of the immune system--not quite full-blown haemorrhagic fever but a lesser version of the same thing (happens in measles, EXTREMELY common in canine and phocine distemper, a typical presentation of the newly discovered cetacean morbillivirus (we don't technically know if it should be formally classified as "dolphin rinderpest", "dolphin distemper" or "dolphin measles" as we don't know which morbillivirus it's most closely related to--signs are pointing MAYBE to dolphin distemper, though).)

d) Morbilliviruses can actually cause their own explicit type of encephalitis--yes, the virus tends to DIRECTLY ATTACK THE BRAIN (TWO different encepalitides in humans--subacure sclerosing panencephalitis (uniformly fatal unless caught VERY early and requires lifetime treatment with ribavirin, progressive disease caused by reactivation of measles virus years after infection) and acute measles encephalitis; very common sequelae of canine distemper and ovine rinderpest resulting in permanent brain damage or death (to the point that if a dog with distemper is seizing it's considered to be a sign of a poor prognosis and euthanasia is recommended); a type of subacute sclerosing panencephalitis-like syndrome is known in canine distemper survivors that in its later stages is considered to be an indication for euthanasia; may be part of what's killing dolphins with cetacean morbillivirus/"dolphin distemper"; typical presentation of canine distemper in black-footed ferrets (which were almost wiped out in a distemper zoonotic--zoos have done much work to bring them back, and released ferrets are usually vaccinated for distemper), also happens in lions that contract canine distemper).

To my knowledge, I really don't know of any OTC medications available for disseminated bleeding, wreckage of the gastrointestinal tract (no, Imodium would not fix the malabsorption that occurs nor the ulceration), encephalitis, and wreckage of the immune system :D

/GET.  YOUR.  DAMN.  KIDS.  THE.  JAB.
//have been sick this weekend with a 100 degree fever and HOPING I haven't caught the damn flu before I could get the flu jab
 
2013-09-01 03:51:58 PM

mongbiohazard: bigsteve3OOO: Because your science is not 100% effective and in some cases deadly; some people opt out.  You think they are fool.  I think they know statistics.

People who eschew vaccines because of either thoroughly debunked rumors/pseudo-science or because in their arrogant willful ignorance wish to put their deity to a foolish test rather than make use of the medicine and doctors he's provided ARE fools even if you are a believer in the supernatural.

The only thing you're proving in this thread is that you don't understand science, statistics OR theology and shouldn't be careless with the use of the word "fool".


Yeah, Doctor Without Borders is making a mint immunizing people in SIerra Leone.
 
2013-09-01 03:53:17 PM

rekoil: vpb: There actually is a theory called dysgenics that proposes that people are becoming less healthy because harmful mutations don't die out because of modern medicine.

I think I've heard this theory before:


Going Under

Think you heard this all before
Now you're gonna hear some more
I know a place where dreams get crushed
Hopes are smashed but that ain't much
Voluntary experimentation
Going through soft core mutation
userserve-ak.last.fm
 
2013-09-01 03:55:43 PM

Trance354: Lionel Mandrake: Benevolent Misanthrope: "You don't take the word of the guy that's trying to give the shot about what's good and what isn't," he [pastor's father, noted nutbag Kenneth Copland] said.

You'd think a prosperity theologian would want his suckers - er, congregants - to stay healthy.  It's hard to convince corpses that Jesus loves rich people most of all, and that the first step to becoming rich is robust tithing.

Of course, if you can get them to include the Church in their wills...ka-ching!!  I mean, hallelujah!!

you know, I'll go back and read the rest of the comments, but I had to get this in quickly.

Some years back in NH, I used to listen to a religious talk radio network on the radio during long commutes to work.  I had them on the speed numbers right beside NPR, which was right beside the local metal station.  So when Metalica came on, I'd check NPR, then try and laugh my way through the fundy station for a while before going back to NPR or metal.  So one day I'm cruising though the channels and I hear one of the fundy pastors come on, and I recognize the voice.  He's on all the time.  He's relating a story where one of his flock is asking him how much he should give to the local church.  He says he gives 10% tithe, but he feels empty inside.  As though he had more to give.  Rather than asking for him to volunteer, to give of his time the greedy pastor shows his true colors and goes right for the pocketbook, telling this well-off flock-member that he should give more of his income, 20-30%.  To give until it hurts, for "That is the path to heaven."

yeah, right about there I lost my faith in organized religion.

/not in God, just the greed induced lust of the clergy


I so get that.  A priesthood man not serving God the way he promised to, is only serving himself.

Coincidently, a couple months ago, I was in attendance for a couple services where the speaking priesthood either works as a medical doctor or a science college professor.  With all these discussions of prayer verses medical science, I can't help but recall the stories coming from a medical doctor of how prayer saved him from a life of being permanently crippled as a kid.  Why not take both prayer and medicine serious?  I'm with OtherLittleGuy on this.
 
2013-09-01 03:57:40 PM
If it's truth you're looking for, Dr. Tyree's philosophy class is right down the hall.
 
2013-09-01 04:00:13 PM

Peki: Darwin doesn't always reward the smartest, just the most successful at breeding.


True.  But as far as humans go he does often punish the dumbest.
 
2013-09-01 04:00:21 PM

SuperNinjaToad: I agree it is not an isolated incident but it is far from mainstream Christian beliefs.


I disagree, I think it's a very natural progression to go from faith in God to faith healing to rejecting medical treatment so as not to demonstrate a lack of faith. The politics that have gotten baked into American Christianity aren't helping either, because it's thrown the ignorant-and-proud hicks in with devout Christians (insert joke about the circular Venn diagram here...) and together they've created a near-perfect storm of anti-intellectualism that's still gaining momentum as far as I can tell.

It's true not all Christians are scientifically backward-ass hicks. In fact, I'd even say the ones that are are a minority of all Christians. But...I also don't think it's as rare as you'd like to believe, and I think the problem's getting worse.

/Born and raised Christian, devout through college, attended church until about a year ago...highly skeptical these days.
 
2013-09-01 04:01:40 PM

Great Porn Dragon: PainfulItching: GrayGush: Coming on a Bicycle:


I'm not backing the anti-vax crowd by a far shot. I'm firmly behind medical science, but I also know that they do not have all the answers. Any doctor would admit that. But there is scientific evidence and anecdotal evidence. The second may become the first after extensive testing, but until then it is useless, unless there are no other options -AND- you are well informed about your body and the potential results.
 
2013-09-01 04:02:13 PM
I think it is funny that parents who refuse to get their kids vaccinated have been vaccinated themselves.

I work with a fat chick who is in her 30s who has an 7 year old brother because seems like her mom had one last good egg holding out and dropped the brat at a late age.

Mom, dad, and the entire family have been vaccinated, but the little sprig no.  They have decided to home school him and keep him away from the evil needles.

So this mom in her 50s has a high school education and the kids home "learnin" consists of video tapes and older sis taking the the tests for him.

He is always wheezing and sound like he has the whooping cough mixed with TB.

The kicker is that before I took my annual trip to Colombia most people were asking me to bring them coffee back, or chocolate, or a knick knack, this girl comes up to me and hands me a 100 dollar bill and says "buy all the antibiotics down there you can for that" She says that her little brother is often sick and that the doctor refuses to see him until he has had his shots, and she said the doctor was a Nazi.

I handed her mony back and said I was going to be supplying any meds, she could go do the doctor for that.
 
2013-09-01 04:04:05 PM

Shirley Ujest: Is there a vaccine for twerking?


One bullet.  Apply directly to the forehead.
 
2013-09-01 04:05:56 PM

bigsteve3OOO: Raw_fishFood: bigsteve3OOO: If vaccines are effective then a few people not getting them should have zero effect on the rest of the vaccinated population.

Herd immunity works by having everybody who can get vaccinated, well, get vaccinated. By greatly reducing the people who can get sick this protects the people who cannot get vaccinated for legitimate reasons, like being too young or weak immune systems.

When people don't get vaccinated despite not having any medical reason not to do so it not only makes the people who can't get vaccinated more vulnerable but gives the disease a chance to mutate and infect people who are only vaccinated against the original strain.

Seems like praying to your god of science has not helped you.  Perhaps a different god would.



The god of Eagle Mountain Church sure didn't.
 
2013-09-01 04:06:01 PM

Tigger: Peki: Tigger: Benevolent Misanthrope: Earlier this week crowds flooded in for regular services. Rose Mwangi had her Bible in hand, and said she's not worried.
 

"Because I know Jesus is a healer, so I know he's covered us with the blood," Mwangi says. "There's no place for fear."

"The concerns we have had are primarily with very young children who have family history of autism and with bundling too many immunizations at one time," she [the pastor] said.
 

"You don't take the word of the guy that's trying to give the shot about what's good and what isn't," he [pastor's father, noted nutbag Kenneth Copland] said.

And Christians wonder why the rest of us think of them as a bunch of servile f*ckwits.

Ideas as stupid as these eventually eliminate the individuals who support them. It just takes too farking long.

And they breed in the meantime. Darwin doesn't always reward the smartest, just the most successful at breeding.

It's not a simple as 'the less fit can now survive'. We eventually get rid of the idiots. It just takes a really long time. Took a thousand years to get these people out of government in Europe but they are now essentially relegated to fringe loony positions. Hopefully that takes less time in the US.


Maybe we can aggressively promote something that is beneficial or essential for survival as 'the mark of the beast'. Xtians will fall all over themselves trying to distance themselves... Any ideas?
 
2013-09-01 04:07:08 PM

PainfulItching: mongbiohazard: bigsteve3OOO: Because your science is not 100% effective and in some cases deadly; some people opt out.  You think they are fool.  I think they know statistics.

People who eschew vaccines because of either thoroughly debunked rumors/pseudo-science or because in their arrogant willful ignorance wish to put their deity to a foolish test rather than make use of the medicine and doctors he's provided ARE fools even if you are a believer in the supernatural.

The only thing you're proving in this thread is that you don't understand science, statistics OR theology and shouldn't be careless with the use of the word "fool".

Yeah, Doctor Without Borders is making a mint immunizing people in SIerra Leone.


The disheartening thing is that I am well aware of how sarcastic what you said is, but there are far too many people in America would would think you were being serious - and agree. And they vote. And they get elected to congress. And they get on the House Science Committee.

There's a reason that those people also tend to want to weaken public education, and oppose public higher education. Education tends to be an anathema to their beliefs, and more quality education makes it harder to brainwash successive generations in to perpetuating their willful ignorance. Whether they admit it or not, I think they know this - even if only subconsciously (and often it's not subconscious I think).
 
2013-09-01 04:08:22 PM

Guntram Shatterhand: On the bright side, this would be a great reality show:  "Tard Circus," where several believers test their faith by swimming in infected blood, eating various contaminated bread, and seeing if they can take a bullet to the face to see how much they love God.  And if they catch something/die, then it's their fault and it's some sin that the announcer, safe in a plastic bubble, can make up on the spot.

It's much better than electing these sad idiots to any positions of power, really.


The funny thing is that THIS ACTUALLY EXISTS (after a fashion) already in parts of Appalachia--"Church of Jesus Christ with Signs Following" and other Oneness Pentecostal churches that tend to be more than a bit infamous for things like drinking poison and picking up timber rattlers during services.

And yes, even though snake-handlin' in "snake handlin' churches" is technically illegal and HAS been since 1946 here in Kentucky, we still get at least one person a year who kicks up dead because they managed to handle a "hot herp" which gave them a full envenomating dose or because the poison kicked in that time.  (Keep in mind that a lot of the areas where "snake handlin' churches" exist are sufficiently remote that it would take a Level 1 trauma flight team the better part of a half hour to get to a hospital with proper facilities to treat a serious crotalid envenomation or a major poisoning.  Keep in mind that a LOT of these "snake handlin' churches" tend to eschew most medical treatment anyways.)

And yes, they DO tend to blame the inevitable deaths resulting from Russian Roulette For Gawd as the person having insufficient faith or "Their Time Had Come".
 
2013-09-01 04:08:28 PM

Elzar: Tigger: Peki: Tigger: Benevolent Misanthrope: Earlier this week crowds flooded in for regular services. Rose Mwangi had her Bible in hand, and said she's not worried.
 

"Because I know Jesus is a healer, so I know he's covered us with the blood," Mwangi says. "There's no place for fear."

"The concerns we have had are primarily with very young children who have family history of autism and with bundling too many immunizations at one time," she [the pastor] said.
 

"You don't take the word of the guy that's trying to give the shot about what's good and what isn't," he [pastor's father, noted nutbag Kenneth Copland] said.

And Christians wonder why the rest of us think of them as a bunch of servile f*ckwits.

Ideas as stupid as these eventually eliminate the individuals who support them. It just takes too farking long.

And they breed in the meantime. Darwin doesn't always reward the smartest, just the most successful at breeding.

It's not a simple as 'the less fit can now survive'. We eventually get rid of the idiots. It just takes a really long time. Took a thousand years to get these people out of government in Europe but they are now essentially relegated to fringe loony positions. Hopefully that takes less time in the US.

Maybe we can aggressively promote something that is beneficial or essential for survival as 'the mark of the beast'. Xtians will fall all over themselves trying to distance themselves... Any ideas?


Obamacare?
 
2013-09-01 04:16:50 PM
The truth and a few facts.

A rubella (measles) infection can cause miscarriage, preterm birth, or stillbirth, as well as a variety of birth defects, but it depends on how far along you are when you contract the virus. The risks are highest during the early stages of a baby's development and they go down as pregnancy progresses.
If you get rubella during the first 12 weeks of pregnancy, there's a high chance (up to 85 percent) that your baby will develop CRS (Congenital Rubella Syndrome). The rate of CRS for a baby whose mother is infected between 13 and 16 weeks is about 54 percent, and the rate continues to go down sharply from there. After 20 weeks there's very little risk that the infection will cause a birth defect.
There's a wide range of very serious problems associated with CRS, most commonly deafness, eye defects (which may lead to blindness), heart malformations, and neurologic problems, such as mental retardation. Other defects may also be evident at birth, or problems may surface later in infancy and childhood.

Early in my professional training (1970's), I spent a couple of months in a care unit for children with CRS.  It was horrible, a living nightmare.  Just wait until some of these unvaccinated women start hitting reproductive age and then contracting rubella early in their pregnancies.  I suppose there will again be care units for children with CRS because their stupid mothers weren't vaccinated.
 
2013-09-01 04:16:53 PM

Elzar: Tigger: Peki: Tigger: Benevolent Misanthrope: 

Maybe we can aggressively promote something that is beneficial or essential for survival as 'the mark of the beast'. Xtians will fall all over themselves trying to distance themselves... Any ideas?


As long as nothing has a barcode on it.

/yes some of them believe that
 
drp
2013-09-01 04:21:29 PM

Peki: And they breed in the meantime. Darwin doesn't always reward the smartest, just the most successful at breeding.


Aren't you the farking idiot who passionately argued against treating people with Downs Syndrome?  Something about how curing that condition would harm the rest of us, who would then not have the cultural perspective and count-our-blessings gratitude that comes from having a bunch of people with preventable mental retardation all around us?


Yeah ... it was ... http://www.fark.com/comments/7883698

No. There is not necessarily anything "wrong" with these folks. They have a chromosomal abnormality. The "defect" is that they cannot survive in *this* culture. It's the culture that's the problem, not them; the solution is not Gattaca.

We will always have genetic "mistakes." Evolution requires it. The trick is to learn how to accommodate those realities, not to make those "mistake" conform to the reality we have artificially created.


So, what is it you've got against measles?  Shouldn't we refrain from treating or preventing it?  I mean, if trisomy 21 isn't a "defect" as you claim, then surely measles isn't either.  The crippled and disabled victims are just differently-abled, and as long as it's someone else's kid, well, then for you it's just a learning opportunity and slice of culture.
 
2013-09-01 04:21:32 PM

J. Frank Parnell: Promised myself i wouldn't post in another pro-vaccination troll thread.

/dammit


Well, yeah, now that you're here it IS a troll thread, Derptaculus.
 
2013-09-01 04:22:00 PM

pissnmoan: The truth and a few facts.

A rubella (measles) infection can cause miscarriage, preterm birth, or stillbirth, as well as a variety of birth defects, but it depends on how far along you are when you contract the virus. The risks are highest during the early stages of a baby's development and they go down as pregnancy progresses.
If you get rubella during the first 12 weeks of pregnancy, there's a high chance (up to 85 percent) that your baby will develop CRS (Congenital Rubella Syndrome). The rate of CRS for a baby whose mother is infected between 13 and 16 weeks is about 54 percent, and the rate continues to go down sharply from there. After 20 weeks there's very little risk that the infection will cause a birth defect.
There's a wide range of very serious problems associated with CRS, most commonly deafness, eye defects (which may lead to blindness), heart malformations, and neurologic problems, such as mental retardation. Other defects may also be evident at birth, or problems may surface later in infancy and childhood.

Early in my professional training (1970's), I spent a couple of months in a care unit for children with CRS.  It was horrible, a living nightmare.  Just wait until some of these unvaccinated women start hitting reproductive age and then contracting rubella early in their pregnancies.  I suppose there will again be care units for children with CRS because their stupid mothers weren't vaccinated.


My mom tells the story of being exposed to rubella when she was pregnant for me. She's a nurse, and was working pediatrics, small kid with measles upchucked on her, she tested pregnant a few days later. Massive concern all around. II semed tu trun aut OK
 
2013-09-01 04:23:01 PM

AeAe: Can we try this?  Send a guy in a hazmat suit to the church and give away t-shirts covered in small pox that reads "Jesus saves!"..

If it doesn't wipe out the church, then the t-shirts are right.  If it does, I guess God was angry with them for some reason.  Possibly because of the gays.


Old and busted: snake handling
New hotness: smallpox handling
 
2013-09-01 04:27:14 PM

PainfulItching: Elzar: Tigger: Peki: Tigger: Benevolent Misanthrope: 

Maybe we can aggressively promote something that is beneficial or essential for survival as 'the mark of the beast'. Xtians will fall all over themselves trying to distance themselves... Any ideas?

As long as nothing has a barcode on it.

/yes some of them believe that



I actually know, and am distantly related to, some of these folks who think barcodes are the sign of the devil.

unrelated csb:

Went to the DMV here in Georgia to get a Georgia driver's license.   Had to take a number (671) and wait for it to be called.  So I'm sitting there waiting for my turn, when I notice the current number is 665. I make a joke to my neighbor about how funny it would be if the person who drew the number 666 refused to respond to the number because of the superstition surrounding it.

Then the time comes...

THE DMV SKIPPED NUMBER 666!  It went straight from 664 to 667.

*facepalm*

Even the State of Georgia believes there's something wrong with the number 666!
 
2013-09-01 04:29:30 PM
Saul T. Balzac:
THE DMV SKIPPED NUMBER 666!  It went straight from 664 665 to 667.

*facepalm*

Even the State of Georgia believes there's something wrong with the number 666!


FTFM
 
2013-09-01 04:30:31 PM

Great Porn Dragon: Guntram Shatterhand: On the bright side, this would be a great reality show:  "Tard Circus," where several believers test their faith by swimming in infected blood, eating various contaminated bread, and seeing if they can take a bullet to the face to see how much they love God.  And if they catch something/die, then it's their fault and it's some sin that the announcer, safe in a plastic bubble, can make up on the spot.

It's much better than electing these sad idiots to any positions of power, really.

The funny thing is that THIS ACTUALLY EXISTS (after a fashion) already in parts of Appalachia--"Church of Jesus Christ with Signs Following" and other Oneness Pentecostal churches that tend to be more than a bit infamous for things like drinking poison and picking up timber rattlers during services.

And yes, even though snake-handlin' in "snake handlin' churches" is technically illegal and HAS been since 1946 here in Kentucky, we still get at least one person a year who kicks up dead because they managed to handle a "hot herp" which gave them a full envenomating dose or because the poison kicked in that time.  (Keep in mind that a lot of the areas where "snake handlin' churches" exist are sufficiently remote that it would take a Level 1 trauma flight team the better part of a half hour to get to a hospital with proper facilities to treat a serious crotalid envenomation or a major poisoning.  Keep in mind that a LOT of these "snake handlin' churches" tend to eschew most medical treatment anyways.)

And yes, they DO tend to blame the inevitable deaths resulting from Russian Roulette For Gawd as the person having insufficient faith or "Their Time Had Come".


I hate that stupid fatalistic attitude. It fills me with disgust.

It reminds me of the time I took a driving safety class to have a speeding ticket erased from my record (was doing 10 over the limit in a speed trap). A guy in the class got into an argument with the instructor about how if he's speeding through a small residential road and hits a little kid who darts into his path, well, it was just fate. Completely absolves him of responsibility.

Really, guy? So if I murder you out in the parking lot and steal your car that's just fate too, right? Not my problem!
 
2013-09-01 04:32:48 PM
Who's up for revoking tax exempt status? Tax the fark outta them, and get a nonbiased, non bible thumping judge to uphold the resulting case, and rule in favor of the plaintiffs. And there will be, the church as a nuisance to the community.
/I can dream, can't I?
//Where's Jenny mccarthy when you need her?
 
2013-09-01 04:32:52 PM
"Because I know Jesus is a healer, so I know he's covered us with the blood," Mwangi says. "There's no place for fear."

Well, there's your problem!  Blood is a well-known vector for infectious disease.  Letting yourself get covered with the stuff is a sure-fire way to get sick.  This Jesus guy, he didn't go to med school, did he?
 
2013-09-01 04:37:29 PM

bigsteve3OOO: If vaccines are effective then a few people not getting them should have zero effect on the rest of the vaccinated population.


5.5/10. Theres just something that doesn't put it over the edge.
 
2013-09-01 04:37:44 PM

Dawnrazor: "Because I know Jesus is a healer, so I know he's covered us with the blood," Mwangi says. "There's no place for fear."

Well, there's your problem!  Blood is a well-known vector for infectious disease.  Letting yourself get covered with the stuff is a sure-fire way to get sick.  This Jesus guy, he didn't go to med school, did he?


Nope, but he sure does a great job at mowing the lawn...
 
2013-09-01 04:38:53 PM
Always fun for the family.
 
2013-09-01 04:44:05 PM

Coming on a Bicycle: You don't die from Measles. Or well, hardly anyone dies from Measles. I mean, my kids are vaccinated as well, but certain things in modern day medicine are simply luxury, and that's not bad. But at least be so fair as to acknowledge that, and let's not pretend some parents are complicit in causing the Second Plague here.


Measles infection of the brain (encephalitis) can cause convulsions, mental retardation, and even death.
 
2013-09-01 04:49:35 PM

bingo the psych-o: Dear Christians:

Immunization prevents more diseases than prayer ever will.  Insulin treats more diabetes than prayer ever will.  Chemotherapy has cured more cancers than prayer ever will.

Please, please, please educate yourselves for the sake of your own children.


Dear Christians:

God gave humans the intelligence to discover immunizations.   God gave humans the intelligence to discover insulin and God gave humans the intelligence to discover Chemotherapy.   Please start using them as you are making God very sad that you are ignoring all the good he has placed in your hands.
 
2013-09-01 05:00:13 PM

PainfulItching: ruta: Wait til they get their wave of pertussis and they have babies dying horrific deaths. That'll learn 'em. Or maybe diphtheria. Diphtheria's pretty farking biblical.

If you've got any concerns about vaccines, do a GIS for diphtheria and then re-consider the validity of your concerns. Also be prepared to be haunted by the image of a "pseudomembrane" forever after.

I've actually had pertussis as an adult. I was immunized as a kid. Sometimes the vax loses its efficacy. Relatively mild case, but it still sucked. Got a booster shot once the infection was cleared. My ribs haven't been the same since though.


Same here. I wish my doctor had told me to get the booster before. I have asthma and my lungs were a wreck for a year. Can't imagine having to watch a kid with that cough.

\And IIRC, the vaccine is only 80% successful, which makes the fact that it's going around adults again rather scary even for parents who do fully vaccinate.
 
2013-09-01 05:01:37 PM
I'm not sure which I hate more... Measles, Texas, or Megachurches.
But right now, measles has the Bronze medal.
 
2013-09-01 05:05:40 PM
The FARK headline was pretty good, it sort of reminds me of Democrats talking about gun control.
 
2013-09-01 05:06:15 PM

Guest: bingo the psych-o: Dear Christians:

Immunization prevents more diseases than prayer ever will.  Insulin treats more diabetes than prayer ever will.  Chemotherapy has cured more cancers than prayer ever will.

Please, please, please educate yourselves for the sake of your own children.

Dear Christians:

God gave humans developedthe intelligence to discover immunizations.   God gave humans hadthe intelligence to discover insulin and God gave humans also hadthe intelligence to discover Chemotherapy.   Please start using them your intelligence as you are making God us reasonable and logical folks very sad that you are ignoranting all the good he has placed in your hands.


FTFY
 
2013-09-01 05:08:07 PM

ex-nuke: The FARK headline was pretty good, it sort of reminds me of Democrats talking about gun control.


It's a bit late in the thread, but not bad!
 
2013-09-01 05:17:02 PM
I just wish we had the guts to take kids away from people like this (and other losers) and the brains to have a safe, healthy environment to raise them. But, I guess letting them die is another, more cruel way of dealing with them.

Other than doing stupid, fake stuff to 'protect' our kids (freaking out about porn and making war on drugs) our society doesn't seem to give two shiats about kids. And we wonder where all the screwed up adults come from.
 
2013-09-01 05:25:00 PM

Saul T. Balzac: Saul T. Balzac:
THE DMV SKIPPED NUMBER 666!  It went straight from 664 665 to 667.

*facepalm*

Even the State of Georgia believes there's something wrong with the number 666!

FTFM


I saw a 666 XXX Oregon license plate a few days ago.  Made me smile.
 
2013-09-01 05:27:13 PM

LouDobbsAwaaaay: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: I'm being persecuted? In what way?

Some people indulge others in this "explain my own post back to me" game.  I don't.


My post didn't insinuate that I was being persecuted at all. I pointed out how people treat two groups with the same opinion differently, and you apparently assumed I belonged to one of those groups. Most likely becaus you aren't very bright.
 
2013-09-01 05:28:01 PM

mongbiohazard: Evolution does not mean that a population of organisms "get more intelligent" - it just means that they change. That change could also possibly take the form of them getting more stupid. That human evolution appears to be accelerating does not actually contradict the premise of that "cult comedy's opening credits" like you seem to be arguing it does.


NO ONE IS SAYING THAT.

The original claim was that natural selection is dead.  That's something that internet hipsters who don't understand evolution say in order to make themselves feel smarter.  Evolution and natural selection are working just fine, as the people who understand evolution have explained over and over in this thread.  It doesn't matter whether the results turn out to be progressive or regressive because evolution only operates in the now.
 
2013-09-01 05:32:27 PM

Mentat: NO ONE IS SAYING THAT.


Except, you know, in contextthe guy I was responding to was. That's why I quoted his whole post and responded with that. Save your knee-jerk for someone else.
 
2013-09-01 05:36:11 PM

Kumana Wanalaia: God is a part of us. It is not a magic sky wizard, it is an aspect of the mind.

People said this thousands of years ago and this is the age where we will prove it.


I like that idea.

here's mine:  God is the universal energy that is the entirety of existence.  So when we die, we go "back" to that universal energy which is "heaven"..  so we essentially "join" with God when our conscious existence ends.
 
gja [TotalFark]
2013-09-01 05:37:28 PM

Mentat: mongbiohazard: Evolution does not mean that a population of organisms "get more intelligent" - it just means that they change. That change could also possibly take the form of them getting more stupid. That human evolution appears to be accelerating does not actually contradict the premise of that "cult comedy's opening credits" like you seem to be arguing it does.

NO ONE IS SAYING THAT.

The original claim was that natural selection is dead.  That's something that internet hipsters who don't understand evolution say in order to make themselves feel smarter.  Evolution and natural selection are working just fine, as the people who understand evolution have explained over and over in this thread.  It doesn't matter whether the results turn out to be progressive or regressive because evolution only operates in the now.


31.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-09-01 05:54:01 PM

BadJazz: Saul T. Balzac: Saul T. Balzac:
THE DMV SKIPPED NUMBER 666!  It went straight from 664 665 to 667.

*facepalm*

Even the State of Georgia believes there's something wrong with the number 666!

FTFM

I saw a 666 XXX Oregon license plate a few days ago.  Made me smile.


s66256.gridserver.com
 
2013-09-01 05:54:25 PM
What a wanker.
 
2013-09-01 05:57:03 PM
Kenneth Copeland Word of Faith churches are some of the worst Prosperity Theology shillers you'll encounter.  The Waterford, CT IFWC is a known group of local criminals.
 
2013-09-01 05:58:47 PM

AeAe: Kumana Wanalaia: God is a part of us. It is not a magic sky wizard, it is an aspect of the mind.

People said this thousands of years ago and this is the age where we will prove it.

I like that idea.

here's mine:  God is the universal energy that is the entirety of existence.  So when we die, we go "back" to that universal energy which is "heaven"..  so we essentially "join" with God when our conscious existence ends.


So God is not a conscious being and therefore cannot influence anything one way or the other, so why pray to it?  Or on the other hand, why not pray to microwave radiation, or dark energy?
 
2013-09-01 06:07:19 PM

lokis_mentor: It's a church in Texas.  Someone call Janet Reno. She'll fix it.


Is it wrong I laughed at this?
 
2013-09-01 06:08:18 PM

ex-nuke: The FARK headline was pretty good, it sort of reminds me of Democrats Anti-Gun folks talking about gun control.


FTFY, I'm a Democrat that completely agrees with the corrected version of your statement.
 
2013-09-01 06:11:17 PM

mongbiohazard: Mentat: NO ONE IS SAYING THAT.

Except, you know, in contextthe guy I was responding to was. That's why I quoted his whole post and responded with that. Save your knee-jerk for someone else.


No, he wasn't saying that at all.  Nothing in his original quote implied that.  He said that the rate of evolution in human populations is increasing, and that's correct.  That doesn't imply progress, it's simply a statement of fact.  I'm sorry you have trouble understanding this.
 
2013-09-01 06:12:24 PM

Mentat: Coming on a Bicycle: You don't die from Measles. Or well, hardly anyone dies from Measles. I mean, my kids are vaccinated as well, but certain things in modern day medicine are simply luxury, and that's not bad. But at least be so fair as to acknowledge that, and let's not pretend some parents are complicit in causing the Second Plague here.

You know measles isn't the only disease out there, right?  You know people still get bubonic plague, right?


Should we vaccinate for bubonic plague?
 
2013-09-01 06:19:19 PM

The Southern Dandy: AeAe: Kumana Wanalaia: God is a part of us. It is not a magic sky wizard, it is an aspect of the mind.

People said this thousands of years ago and this is the age where we will prove it.

I like that idea.

here's mine:  God is the universal energy that is the entirety of existence.  So when we die, we go "back" to that universal energy which is "heaven"..  so we essentially "join" with God when our conscious existence ends.

So God is not a conscious being and therefore cannot influence anything one way or the other, so why pray to it?  Or on the other hand, why not pray to microwave radiation, or dark energy?


Why pray at all?  What does that accomplish?  You think if you pray to God for a horse you'll get one?
 
2013-09-01 06:19:56 PM
The best remedy for a weasles outbreak is lots of .22s and poison.
 
2013-09-01 06:24:00 PM

drp: Something about how curing that condition would harm the rest of us, who would then not have the cultural perspective and count-our-blessings gratitude that comes from having a bunch of people with preventable mental retardation all around us?


No, but what I was actually trying to argue was more complicated than I could articulate at the time, which is why (if I remember correctly), I didn't come back to that thread. I'd dug a hole I knew I wouldn't be able to get out of, and by the time I tried, Fark would have (and did) twist it into something way different from what I intended. *shrug* It's the internet. It happens.

drp:   I mean, if trisomy 21 isn't a "defect" as you claim, then surely measles isn't either.


Even if I were as dumb as you think I am, I'd still know there's a difference between a genetic mutation and a virus.

drp: as long as it's someone else's kid, well, then for you it's just a learning opportunity and slice of culture.


And that was a great example of today's winner of assumption junction. You have no idea what my living situation is, whether or not I myself am "differently abled" or a genetic mutant, or whether I deal with such people on a daily basis. I'm not going to enlighten you, but trust me it's not nearly the cheery educational PBS documentary you seem to think it might be.

ON TOPIC, I'm of two minds about vaccines. On the one hand, the WHO schedule looks a little obscene. On the other hand, how many germs attack a baby the second she's out of the womb? On the other hand, do I really trust pharmaceutical companies to not put in additives or chemicals when they aren't really sure or don't want to admit to the public what the dangers are? Unfortunately, the idea of "informed consumption" in the U.S. is laughable, because you can't trust any of the information coming from anyone, doctor, Big Pharma, WHO, left-wing anti-vaccinating Jenny McCarthy-clone, or Aunt Jemima who's idea of vaccinating was throwing the kids in the swamp for 8 hours.

We need to be demanding better information. Not arguing over whether or not vaccines are a good idea.
 
2013-09-01 06:27:34 PM

AeAe: The Southern Dandy: AeAe: Kumana Wanalaia: God is a part of us. It is not a magic sky wizard, it is an aspect of the mind.

People said this thousands of years ago and this is the age where we will prove it.

I like that idea.

here's mine:  God is the universal energy that is the entirety of existence.  So when we die, we go "back" to that universal energy which is "heaven"..  so we essentially "join" with God when our conscious existence ends.

So God is not a conscious being and therefore cannot influence anything one way or the other, so why pray to it?  Or on the other hand, why not pray to microwave radiation, or dark energy?

Why pray at all?  What does that accomplish?  You think if you pray to God for a horse you'll get one?


It makes people feel better about themselves.
 
2013-09-01 06:31:06 PM

SilentStrider: If I weren't agnostic i'd be praying that this guy gets struck down by lightning.


It's for people like this that I maintain a nominal belief in god.
 
2013-09-01 06:33:51 PM

FunkOut: Mentat: Coming on a Bicycle: You don't die from Measles. Or well, hardly anyone dies from Measles. I mean, my kids are vaccinated as well, but certain things in modern day medicine are simply luxury, and that's not bad. But at least be so fair as to acknowledge that, and let's not pretend some parents are complicit in causing the Second Plague here.

You know measles isn't the only disease out there, right?  You know people still get bubonic plague, right?

Should we vaccinate for bubonic plague?


Because you don't vaccinate for bacterial infections.
 
2013-09-01 06:34:20 PM

DoctorWhat: I'm sad that no one has photoshopped the picture in TFA to say "Measle Mountain Church".


Meh, don't have to.  The eagle on the right of the banner is flipping the bird to science, modern medicine, and all other libtardo wordly things of that ilk.

media.npr.org
 
2013-09-01 06:39:33 PM

mongbiohazard: Evolution does not mean that a population of organisms "get more intelligent" - it just means that they change. That change could also possibly take the form of them getting more stupid.


Yes, but evolution driven by natural selection tends to make organisms more fit to compete for mates, rather than just changing in an unhelpful direction.

The Idiocracy hypothesis is based on two bogus premises.  The first is that intelligence is inherited, which is only partially true.  The second is that dumber people reproduce more than smarter people.  In reality, intelligence is a significant advantage to reproduction.

People only think the opposite is true lower socioeconomic classes have higher rates of reproduction, and people in the higher classes confuse class with intelligence.
 
2013-09-01 06:40:56 PM

TheRameres: FunkOut: Mentat: Coming on a Bicycle: You don't die from Measles. Or well, hardly anyone dies from Measles. I mean, my kids are vaccinated as well, but certain things in modern day medicine are simply luxury, and that's not bad. But at least be so fair as to acknowledge that, and let's not pretend some parents are complicit in causing the Second Plague here.

You know measles isn't the only disease out there, right?  You know people still get bubonic plague, right?

Should we vaccinate for bubonic plague?

Because you don't vaccinate for bacterial infections.


Really?  Somebody tell the CDC.  They're spreading misinformation.

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/hib/

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/pneumo/

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/diphtheria/default.htm

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/pertussis/default.htm

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/mening/default.htm

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/typhoid/default.htm

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/tb/default.htm

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/anthrax/default.htm
 
2013-09-01 06:41:01 PM
So, apparently the fact is that the Good Lord really dislikes folks with smooth skins, and the truth is he really hates folks with compromised immune systems and small children...

That's the lesson I'm getting from this.

Seriously Christians, I respect a good many of you, and your zeal and compassion, but it's folks like this that really helped me to return to my mother's faith, and seek the Middle Path...
 
2013-09-01 06:42:52 PM

whatshisname: AeAe: The Southern Dandy: AeAe: Kumana Wanalaia: God is a part of us. It is not a magic sky wizard, it is an aspect of the mind.

People said this thousands of years ago and this is the age where we will prove it.

I like that idea.

here's mine:  God is the universal energy that is the entirety of existence.  So when we die, we go "back" to that universal energy which is "heaven"..  so we essentially "join" with God when our conscious existence ends.

So God is not a conscious being and therefore cannot influence anything one way or the other, so why pray to it?  Or on the other hand, why not pray to microwave radiation, or dark energy?

Why pray at all?  What does that accomplish?  You think if you pray to God for a horse you'll get one?

It makes people feel better about themselves.


This is true.  I saw this cartoon that said "Prayer gives people the feeling that they are doing something while accomplishing nothing" .. or something like that.
 
2013-09-01 06:43:52 PM

vpb: Tigger: Ideas as stupid as these eventually eliminate the individuals who support them. It just takes too farking long.

There is no natural selection anymore.  Stupidity has become survivable because modern society will provide food and medical treatment.


Um, yes there is still natural selection for humans. It is arguable that since the advent of large population centers, with their communicable diseases that resistance to disease has become the primary human selector. Some individuals survive plagues and diseases, and those who don't are selected out. Also, whole populations can be affected, like native American populations once exposed to European diseases.
 
2013-09-01 06:44:56 PM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: LouDobbsAwaaaay: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: I'm being persecuted? In what way?

Some people indulge others in this "explain my own post back to me" game.  I don't.

My post didn't insinuate that I was being persecuted at all. I pointed out how people treat two groups with the same opinion differently, and you apparently assumed I belonged to one of those groups. Most likely becaus you aren't very bright.


Except that it doesn't matter who's bringing the idiotic anti-vaxxer idea forward; whether they're a super-fundamentalist preacher or a super left-wing Hollywood celebrity, if they espouse anti-vax propaganda the only people who take them seriously are those who are already anti-vaxxers.  I see just as much scorn heaped upon Jenny Farking McCarthy as I see directed at this pastor.
 
2013-09-01 06:46:50 PM

lack of warmth: Coincidently, a couple months ago, I was in attendance for a couple services where the speaking priesthood either works as a medical doctor or a science college professor. With all these discussions of prayer verses medical science, I can't help but recall the stories coming from a medical doctor of how prayer saved him from a life of being permanently crippled as a kid. Why not take both prayer and medicine serious? I'm with OtherLittleGuy on this.


Because when it has been tested prayer doesn't work. God is for the gullible and prayer works the same way as letters to Santa. I'll take prayer seriously when, never mind, no I won't, doing so would show me to be stupid.
 
2013-09-01 06:51:03 PM

Parthenogenetic: TheRameres: FunkOut: Mentat: Coming on a Bicycle: You don't die from Measles. Or well, hardly anyone dies from Measles. I mean, my kids are vaccinated as well, but certain things in modern day medicine are simply luxury, and that's not bad. But at least be so fair as to acknowledge that, and let's not pretend some parents are complicit in causing the Second Plague here.

You know measles isn't the only disease out there, right?  You know people still get bubonic plague, right?

Should we vaccinate for bubonic plague?

Because you don't vaccinate for bacterial infections.

Really?  Somebody tell the CDC.  They're spreading misinformation.

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/hib/

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/pneumo/

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/diphtheria/default.htm

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/pertussis/default.htm

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/mening/default.htm

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/typhoid/default.htm

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/tb/default.htm

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/anthrax/default.htm


I'd like to point out the Anthrax vaccine is not nearly as effective as you would believe. If memory serves correct from when both my brothers got vaccinated in the Army, you still have a 6 in 7 chance of getting Anthrax.
 
2013-09-01 06:51:55 PM

Lachwen: sterility.


Silver lining time!
 
2013-09-01 06:52:59 PM

Peki: ....


Dude, you're arguing with someone who's handle is "derp."
 
gja [TotalFark]
2013-09-01 06:53:49 PM

Xcott: mongbiohazard: Evolution does not mean that a population of organisms "get more intelligent" - it just means that they change. That change could also possibly take the form of them getting more stupid.

Yes, but evolution driven by natural selection tends to make organisms more fit to compete for mates, rather than just changing in an unhelpful direction.

The Idiocracy hypothesis is based on two bogus premises.  The first is that intelligence is inherited, which is only partially true.  The second is that dumber people reproduce more than smarter people.  In reality, intelligence is a significant advantage to reproduction.

People only think the opposite is true lower socioeconomic classes have higher rates of reproduction, and people in the higher classes confuse class with intelligence.


I can verify undeniably that having money does NOT equate to those who possess it having class. Sadly, some of the most well-heeled people I know are some of the most disgusting people I have had the displeasure of having to deal with. Additionally, some of them make me wonder how the hell they are able to clothe themselves sans assistance. Some are blathering idiots. Others make me fearful in that they are driving cars about, as they routinely wreck them in glorious fashion.

On the other hand, I recently went to Indiana. When I travel I tend to 'go native' and eat/spend at local places rather than chains who couldn't care less about my patronage of their establishments. I did so on this trip and ate at a place where it was evident the place was staffed by almost all family and friends. What ensued was a dinner with folks who surely made very little for a living but were as gracious as could possibly be. The owner, a Guyanese gent who emigrated here in '82,  had some of the most educated views on macro-economics I have ever heard outside a lecture hall at university. The common folk are the best.

Evolution needs to hurry the hell up. The dumbness just ain't dieing off fast enough.
 
2013-09-01 07:00:27 PM

MithrandirBooga: bigsteve3OOO: If vaccines are effective then a few people not getting them should have zero effect on the rest of the vaccinated population.

WRONG.

FTFA:

"Typically, it's the fear that the combination measles-mumps-rubella, or MMR vaccine may have in some way contributed to the epidemic of autism - which has clearly been shown not to be true in study after study," Offit says. He says those who chose to skip vaccines cause serious ripple effects.

There are hundreds of thousands of people in the United States who can't get vaccinated because they're undergoing medical treatment or are too young, for example.


Also, vaccines are never 100% effective. So there is another significant population group that benefits from universal vaccination.
 
2013-09-01 07:00:40 PM

Parthenogenetic: TheRameres: FunkOut: Mentat: Coming on a Bicycle: You don't die from Measles. Or well, hardly anyone dies from Measles. I mean, my kids are vaccinated as well, but certain things in modern day medicine are simply luxury, and that's not bad. But at least be so fair as to acknowledge that, and let's not pretend some parents are complicit in causing the Second Plague here.

You know measles isn't the only disease out there, right?  You know people still get bubonic plague, right?

Should we vaccinate for bubonic plague?

Because you don't vaccinate for bacterial infections.

Really?  Somebody tell the CDC.  They're spreading misinformation.

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/hib/

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/pneumo/

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/diphtheria/default.htm

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/pertussis/default.htm

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/mening/default.htm

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/typhoid/default.htm

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/tb/default.htm

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/anthrax/default.htm


I stand corrected.

Learned something new and it's not even a school day!
 
2013-09-01 07:02:02 PM

Don't Troll Me Bro!: Peki: ....

Dude, you're arguing with someone who's handle is "derp."


And you're on Fark. Both just as productive. :)
 
2013-09-01 07:03:12 PM

jayphat: I'd like to point out the Anthrax vaccine is not nearly as effective as you would believe. If memory serves correct from when both my brothers got vaccinated in the Army, you still have a 6 in 7 chance of getting Anthrax.


To be fair, the Army is pretty metal.

www.metal-archives.com
 
2013-09-01 07:04:44 PM

whatshisname: It makes people feel better about themselves.


That praying makes people feel better about themselves is the best argument against prayer I can think of. If you want to feel better about yourself do something constructive (like make fun of religious folk on Fark) don't pray, that only gives you undeserved good feelings
 
2013-09-01 07:19:31 PM

gja: Not all of us who identify as Christian are so universally idiotic.


Like all other mental illnesses and defects, religious belief has a spectrum of severity. You might think you lie on the lower end of the spectrum, like a highly functioning autistic or addict, but you still suffer from the same delusion and irrational beliefs as the full blown fundamentalists. 

In fact, I think it's very telling that the fundamentalists are proof for religious faith being a bad thing. if your religion has a problem with its fundamentalists, more than likely it's an issue with the fundamental beliefs and way of thinking your religion promotes.
 
2013-09-01 07:21:12 PM

Peki: Don't Troll Me Bro!: Peki: ....

Dude, you're arguing with someone who's handle is "derp."

And you're on Fark. Both just as productive. :)


Smart'd and Funny'd..... Well played.
 
2013-09-01 07:24:33 PM

AeAe: Kumana Wanalaia: God is a part of us. It is not a magic sky wizard, it is an aspect of the mind.

People said this thousands of years ago and this is the age where we will prove it.

I like that idea.

here's mine:  God is the universal energy that is the entirety of existence.  So when we die, we go "back" to that universal energy which is "heaven"..  so we essentially "join" with God when our conscious existence ends.


the force? ok sure Jedi is an official recognized religion somewhere
 
2013-09-01 07:27:25 PM
I thought the headline was another fark fake "quote", just wow.

/welcome to conservative logic.
 
2013-09-01 07:31:35 PM
I have a question in all of this. Why is it that the "churches" are being ignored when they practice medicine without a license? Offering up opinions about medical practice or giving out medical advice IS practicing medicine no matter how much you try to rationalize it. Are these preachers Doctors? Do they have any actual medical information? Or are they merely breaking the Law, like any other huckster looking for an edge over the rubes to keep their attention focused up front while the dips work the back of the crowd.

Seems to me that there are some serious Medical Ethics issues here and likely some legal problems with this.
 
gja [TotalFark]
2013-09-01 07:31:55 PM

Kali-Yuga: gja: Not all of us who identify as Christian are so universally idiotic.

Like all other mental illnesses and defects, religious belief has a spectrum of severity. You might think you lie on the lower end of the spectrum, like a highly functioning autistic or addict, but you still suffer from the same delusion and irrational beliefs as the full blown fundamentalists. 

In fact, I think it's very telling that the fundamentalists are proof for religious faith being a bad thing. if your religion has a problem with its fundamentalists, more than likely it's an issue with the fundamental beliefs and way of thinking your religion promotes.


You assume, and like to generalize in the extreme. So your dismissive attitude shows your lack of cognitive ability where something does not fit neatly into your preconceived hole and molds.
I have had this discussion in numerous other threads. One can be a Christian person without wholesale and blind belief in the 'organized' religion of it.

Don't assume that I will just leave you be on this. You have asserted I have a mental illness. That is both asinine and offensive on many levels.
 
2013-09-01 07:32:40 PM

Lionel Mandrake: Shirley Ujest: Is there a vaccine for twerking?

One bullet.  Apply directly to the forehead.


I would suggest two immediate booster shots, one to the head and one to the heart, just to be sure that the immunization is effective.
 
2013-09-01 07:34:08 PM

Aldon: I thought the headline was another fark fake "quote", just wow.

/welcome to conservative Fundamentalist Christian logic.


FTFY. Please don't lump my fiscal conservatism with these idiots.
 
2013-09-01 07:34:31 PM
These idiots are harming people.
They need to be prosecuted to the fullest extent.
 
2013-09-01 07:40:52 PM

snocone: These idiots are harming people.
They need to be prosecuted to the fullest extent.


Freedom of religion is a landmine that no elected official would ever step on. As long as this is blanketed under the protection of religion, the precedence has been set.
 
gja [TotalFark]
2013-09-01 07:42:20 PM

PainfulItching: snocone: These idiots are harming people.
They need to be prosecuted to the fullest extent.

Freedom of religion is a landmine that no elected official would ever step on. As long as this is blanketed under the protection of religion, the precedence has been set.


^This^
It would equate to career suicide. An idea I admit I find not that unpleasant an outcome for most politicians.
 
2013-09-01 07:44:02 PM

loonatic112358: AeAe: Kumana Wanalaia: God is a part of us. It is not a magic sky wizard, it is an aspect of the mind.

People said this thousands of years ago and this is the age where we will prove it.

I like that idea.

here's mine:  God is the universal energy that is the entirety of existence.  So when we die, we go "back" to that universal energy which is "heaven"..  so we essentially "join" with God when our conscious existence ends.

the force? ok sure Jedi is an official recognized religion somewhere


The Force?  Sure why not.  I'm not into labels.  George Carlin called it "The Big Electron".  Same idea.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFKLc6K8Ydo
 
2013-09-01 07:59:25 PM

gja: One can be a Christian person without wholesale and blind belief in the 'organized' religion of it.



All religious faith is irrational
The contradictions, errors, and absurdities contained within the bible and other religious texts cannot be reconciled through the use of reason or logic.
In order to reconcile these errors, contradictions, and absurdities, believers must make a leap to faith
The leap to faith is a leap away from rationality. (See Kierkegaard among others)
All religious faith is irrational
Q.E.D.

Delusions are simply irrational beliefs, like religious faith, held with a high level of conviction and highly resistant to change even when the delusional person is exposed to forms of proof that contradict the belief.

Perhaps mental illness is the wrong term, a mental disorder is probably a more correct.   Like I said mental illnesses and disorders have a spectrum. If you truly are some sort of moderate christian, cherry-picking the few verses you like and ignoring the rest, you're just like that person who has just a slight case of OCD or ADD or whatever.

Delusional disorder isn't quite the same as other psychotic disorders either, it doesn't usually cause people to act too peculiar, other than perhaps engaging in some rituals to make themselves feel better, or making other life choices based on their delusional beliefs.  People with delusional disorder also are known to suffer from delusions like believing all of their actions are constantly monitored by some outside force that exerts supernatural forces to intervene in their lives.
 
2013-09-01 08:02:31 PM

Coming on a Bicycle: You don't die from Measles. Or well, hardly anyone dies from Measles. I mean, my kids are vaccinated as well, but certain things in modern day medicine are simply luxury, and that's not bad. But at least be so fair as to acknowledge that, and let's not pretend some parents are complicit in causing the Second Plague here.


http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/whatifstop.htm#measles
 
2013-09-01 08:05:45 PM
I wish some really clever lawyer could figure out how to sue this rancid coont, and her un-Christian clubhouse, out of business forever.
 
2013-09-01 08:11:05 PM

Apik0r0s: I wish some really clever lawyer could figure out how to sue this rancid coont, and her un-Christian clubhouse, out of business forever.


Why is class action only for fun?
We have a whole lot of injured persons here.
We don't need no farkin' politician.
Come on, all we need is a John Grisham fan with a license to sic 'em.
 
2013-09-01 08:16:28 PM
Isn't intentionally giving false medical information with the intent to harm them or someone they know via the false information given a crime?
 
2013-09-01 08:23:54 PM

milkyshirt: fark you, you stupid, mouth breathing, moronic, yearning-for-the-dark-ages dipshiat. Seriously. I hope you die from a horrific disease.

Now that I've let off some steam, I'd like to note that I first read Dr. Jason Terk's name as Dr. Jason Twerk. *shakes fist at media*


In this case it's definitely NOT "Nobody's business but the TERK'S"

I wonder if he would have hired Mary Mallion as a cook?

http://history1900s.about.com/od/1900s/a/typhoidmary.htm
 
2013-09-01 08:54:03 PM
Great Porn Dragon: I am actually a bit of an apatheist now, in part because I sincerely do believe that if the Abrahamic Deity actually GAVE a literal goddamn about humanity that "prosperity gospel" hucksters would be among the first against the wall (along with religionationalist terrorists like Al Quaida and the Army of God).  Because Prosperity Gospel Farking Kills.

I used to be a regular attendee at the local Apatheist church, but one day I stopped going because I realized I just didn't care anymore.
 
2013-09-01 08:59:23 PM
God could be just farking with the Churcholes.
 
2013-09-01 09:03:19 PM

Tigger: Ideas as stupid as these eventually eliminate the individuals who support them. It just takes too farking long.


Sadly, I have a father inlaw who believes in all this BS and has a son with serious medical issues, and the father believes that Jesus or God or whatever will fix whatever problems his son has and he hasn't brought him to a doctor yet.  It's pathetic and the biggest reason why I will never talk to him until he's on his deathbed.  Idiot's like these also impact the people around them too, if it was just him, I could care less.

/I will be dancing on his grave and he knows it.
 
drp
2013-09-01 09:09:32 PM

jayphat: I'd like to point out the Anthrax vaccine is not nearly as effective as you would believe. If memory serves correct from when both my brothers got vaccinated in the Army, you still have a 6 in 7 chance of getting Anthrax.


That's not quite right.

The anthrax vaccine is very effective against what it was developed to do:  protect veterinarians and livestock workers from cutaneous infections caused by exposure to spores in soil.

There is some question as to whether it is effective for the DOD's purpose - to protect people from inhalational infections caused by airborne exposure to weaponized strains.  Obviously this is something that is more or less impossible to test or collect data on, particularly human data.

That "6 in 7" failure rate is about 99% likely to be a fabricated statistic.

Around 2004 when the military's anthrax vaccination program was tied up in the courts, servicemembers had the option of refusing the anthrax vaccine.  (That's something pretty extraordinary for the military.)  At the time, I chose not to get the vaccine, prior to deploying to the middle east.

For you antivax retards, this is what a rational decision to decline a vaccine looks like.  Refusing vaccines because some religious leader said so, or because b-b-b-b-b-but pharmaceutical companies just marks you a fool.  Unwind the tinfoil.  Pediatricians aren't getting pharma kickbacks.  Hell, drug reps don't even bring sandwiches to the hospital any more.
 
2013-09-01 09:16:45 PM

drp: jayphat: I'd like to point out the Anthrax vaccine is not nearly as effective as you would believe. If memory serves correct from when both my brothers got vaccinated in the Army, you still have a 6 in 7 chance of getting Anthrax.

That's not quite right.

The anthrax vaccine is very effective against what it was developed to do:  protect veterinarians and livestock workers from cutaneous infections caused by exposure to spores in soil.

There is some question as to whether it is effective for the DOD's purpose - to protect people from inhalational infections caused by airborne exposure to weaponized strains.  Obviously this is something that is more or less impossible to test or collect data on, particularly human data.

That "6 in 7" failure rate is about 99% likely to be a fabricated statistic.

Around 2004 when the military's anthrax vaccination program was tied up in the courts, servicemembers had the option of refusing the anthrax vaccine.  (That's something pretty extraordinary for the military.)  At the time, I chose not to get the vaccine, prior to deploying to the middle east.

For you antivax retards, this is what a rational decision to decline a vaccine looks like.  Refusing vaccines because some religious leader said so, or because b-b-b-b-b-but pharmaceutical companies just marks you a fool.  Unwind the tinfoil.  Pediatricians aren't getting pharma kickbacks.  Hell, drug reps don't even bring sandwiches to the hospital any more.


Both my brothers got theirs. The younger described it as the sickest 4 days of his life.
 
2013-09-01 09:18:00 PM

gja: You assume, and like to generalize in the extreme. So your dismissive attitude shows your lack of cognitive ability where something does not fit neatly into your preconceived hole and molds.
I have had this discussion in numerous other threads. One can be a Christian person without wholesale and blind belief in the 'organized' religion of it.

Don't assume that I will just leave you be on this. You have asserted I have a mental illness. That is both asinine and offensive on many levels.


No one said anything about the "organized religion" being the reason for calling religious people delusional. While "mental illness" MAY  be a bit strong religious people are DEFINITLY delusional. If you claim to be a christian, and you did, you must hold beliefs that contradict reality and you draw those beliefs from a single self contradictory book. Reading the book should be enough to show you that anyone who calls themselves "christian" is at least mildly delusional. And yes I would say the same thing about ALL religions.
 
2013-09-01 09:21:04 PM

SuperNinjaToad: Benevolent Misanthrope: Earlier this week crowds flooded in for regular services. Rose Mwangi had her Bible in hand, and said she's not worried.
 

"Because I know Jesus is a healer, so I know he's covered us with the blood," Mwangi says. "There's no place for fear."

"The concerns we have had are primarily with very young children who have family history of autism and with bundling too many immunizations at one time," she [the pastor] said.
 

"You don't take the word of the guy that's trying to give the shot about what's good and what isn't," he [pastor's father, noted nutbag Kenneth Copland] said.

And Christians wonder why the rest of us think of them as a bunch of servile f*ckwits.

paint with a broad strokes much? there are literally tens of millions of Christians in the US but yeah one fringe group in Texas represents all of them.


A group with millions of members and a ministry that spans 190 countries, does not make a fringe group. He also has massive ties to other groups, Oral Roberts university, and massive control over a number of politicians.

Saying they are a fringe group is a bit understating one of the most powerful evangelical groups in the US and the damage they have caused.
 
2013-09-01 09:22:01 PM
Sure, you can raise your kids how you want, but when it seriously harms them, then you should be charged with child abuse and be forced to take responsibility for your irresponsible behavior.
 
2013-09-01 09:24:28 PM

Kumana Wanalaia: God is a part of us. It is not a magic sky wizard, it is an aspect of the mind.

People said this thousands of years ago and this is the age where we will prove it.


If you mean "a figment of the collective imagination", then , sure.
 
drp
2013-09-01 09:26:50 PM

jayphat: Both my brothers got theirs. The younger described it as the sickest 4 days of his life.


Years later when the court challenges were resolved, and the anthrax vaccine was again mandatory for people deploying, I had to get it.

It sucked.  Like getting hit in the arm with a baseball bat followed by a 2-3 day constant mild hangover.

I would've turned it down again, if I'd had the option.
 
2013-09-01 09:35:08 PM

Fuggin Bizzy: "You don't take the word of the guy that's trying to give the shot about what's good and what isn't," he said.

The, uh, doctor? (I know doctors normally don't actually give shots...shut up.) I guess he is one of the smart people, which would put him on the "other" side, according to Rick "Foamy" Santorum. You don't want to just take the word of a guy on the other side. Our ignorance is at least as good as his knowledge.

MY EYES ARE WIDE OPEN...SHEEPLE. Yours should be too.


imgs.xkcd.com
Big mistake.
 
2013-09-01 09:53:58 PM
I had the measles vaccine as a baby. I got the measles in 4th grade.  I got mumps in 5th grade.  I had scarlet fever in 6th grade.  I have the immune system of a carrot.  I catch everything.  If I were to have children, they would all be vaccinated against everything.  I am thankful I had the polio vaccine or I probably would have caught that when I was in Kenya.  Caught enough stuff there for the airline to want to make a detour to Greenland to get me to a hospital.

Don't lump all Christians with these douchebags.  This Sunday our pastor reminded people to get their kids vaccinated.

It is like this story:

A man was in a flood and had climbed onto his roof for safety.  A man in a boat came along and offered him a ride to safety.  The man said No, God will save me.  Awhile longer a larger boat came and the people offered to take him to safety.  No, he said, God will rescue me.  Awhile longer a helicopter came overhead, as the water were rising.  Let us help you.  They called.  No, the man said, God will save me.
The man drowned in the waters.
In heaven he asked God why he didn't save him.
God looked at the man and sighed, I sent two boats and a helicopter, what more do you want.

Moral: Trust in God, but use common sense.
 
2013-09-01 10:19:53 PM
Someday, my grandkids will be amazed that people like this were not institutionalized. Or fixed by nanobots or whatever.
 
2013-09-01 10:56:15 PM

Fuggin Bizzy: The best remedy for a weasles outbreak is lots of .22s and poison.


No, no, boots.   Put down your gun, it's Weasel Stomping Day.
 
2013-09-01 11:05:45 PM
Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: My post didn't insinuate that I was being persecuted at all. I pointed out how people treat two groups with the same opinion differently, and you apparently assumed I belonged to one of those groups.

That's true, if by "pointed out " you mean "made up a bald-faced, transparent lie."
 
2013-09-01 11:20:20 PM

vpb: Tigger: Ideas as stupid as these eventually eliminate the individuals who support them. It just takes too farking long.

There is no natural selection anymore.  Stupidity has become survivable because modern society will provide food and medical treatment.


There is still natural selection.  Do you think when apes exhibit social rules it is "unnatural"?  Do you think conceptual evolution is not also evolution?  What kind of magic could alter the evolutionary process?  You be talking metaphysical things.
 
2013-09-01 11:26:16 PM

Lachwen: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: My post didn't insinuate that I was being persecuted at all. I pointed out how people treat two groups with the same opinion differently, and you apparently assumed I belonged to one of those groups. Most likely becaus you aren't very bright.

Except that it doesn't matter who's bringing the idiotic anti-vaxxer idea forward; whether they're a super-fundamentalist preacher or a super left-wing Hollywood celebrity, if they espouse anti-vax propaganda the only people who take them seriously are those who are already anti-vaxxers.  I see just as much scorn heaped upon Jenny Farking McCarthy as I see directed at this pastor.


Keep in mind you're talking to a Holocaust Denier who has been known to make up lies on other topics as well (even before this thread).  Don't expect much.
 
2013-09-01 11:40:00 PM
Eagle Mountain is led by pastor Terri Copeland Pearsons, the daughter of televangelist Kenneth Copeland. Church leaders wouldn't grant interviews, but Pearsons released a statement after the outbreak saying she isn't anti-vaccine. But Pearsons added that she still has some reservations about vaccines.
"The concerns we have had are primarily with very young children who have family history of autism and with bundling too many immunizations at one time," she said.


Classic concern trolling.
 
2013-09-01 11:45:47 PM

Medusa's Daughter: Moral: Trust in God, but use common sense, logic and reason.


You were so close.
 
2013-09-01 11:53:27 PM
24.media.tumblr.com

300+ posts and no one posts this? Fark I am disappoint.
 
2013-09-01 11:57:32 PM

Kali-Yuga: gja: Not all of us who identify as Christian are so universally idiotic.

Like all other mental illnesses and defects, religious belief has a spectrum of severity. You might think you lie on the lower end of the spectrum, like a highly functioning autistic or addict, but you still suffer from the same delusion and irrational beliefs as the full blown fundamentalists.

In fact, I think it's very telling that the fundamentalists are proof for religious faith being a bad thing. if your religion has a problem with its fundamentalists, more than likely it's an issue with the fundamental beliefs and way of thinking your religion promotes.



You foolishly have bought into the myth that being a "fundamentalist" has anything to do with the "fundamentals" of a religion.  It's understandable; the name was chosen to convey that misleading impression.   But, while exactly what the "fundamentals" of Christianity are is a somewhat slippery and subjective question, almost any attempt to define them, even by fundamentalists themselves, will demonstrate ways in which American fundamentalist Christianty departs markedly from these fundamentals.

I'm less certain about fundamentalist varieties of other faiths, but at the least I would urging taking with a grain of salt any claim that "being a fundamentalist X" really has anything to do with the defining characteristics or fundamentals of "X."
 
2013-09-02 12:11:21 AM

Parthenogenetic: DoctorWhat: I'm sad that no one has photoshopped the picture in TFA to say "Measle Mountain Church".

Meh, don't have to.  The eagle on the right of the banner is flipping the bird to science, modern medicine, and all other libtardo wordly things of that ilk.

[media.npr.org image 850x477]


redsquid: Is that eagle on their banner giving me the finger?



I think the eagle looks like its going to suck itself off. meh.
 
2013-09-02 12:52:10 AM

minoridiot: Wasn't St. Luke a doctor?


Maybe it was St. Joseph.

ecx.images-amazon.com

Just take 2 and call me in the morning.
 
2013-09-02 12:52:33 AM

Tigger: Benevolent Misanthrope: Earlier this week crowds flooded in for regular services. Rose Mwangi had her Bible in hand, and said she's not worried.
 

"Because I know Jesus is a healer, so I know he's covered us with the blood," Mwangi says. "There's no place for fear."

"The concerns we have had are primarily with very young children who have family history of autism and with bundling too many immunizations at one time," she [the pastor] said.
 

"You don't take the word of the guy that's trying to give the shot about what's good and what isn't," he [pastor's father, noted nutbag Kenneth Copland] said.

And Christians wonder why the rest of us think of them as a bunch of servile f*ckwits.

Ideas as stupid as these eventually eliminate the individuals who support them. It just takes too farking long.


They also take far too many others with them. All it takes is 'herd immunity' to be broken and we're screwed. These (and other anti-vaxxer) nutters are going to be the cause of the next pandemic I'm guessing.
 
2013-09-02 01:16:41 AM

nmrsnr: For reference, here's how creators of vaccines were viewed around a century ago:

[farm6.staticflickr.com image 378x560]

It's one of those "it's so effective, people take for granted that it is what's working" phenomena. Like "there's no lead in my water, I guess we don't need a clean water act."


Well, it's one of the problems, if you can get past the "Har har lookit them dum religulous folkses" that seems to go on when this topic comes up. There are plenty of quite smart, non-god-bothering people who really don't understand the need for everyone to keep getting vaccinated against diseases that haven't been seen--as even TFA acknowledges--in America in decades. And after all, nobody gets vaccinated for smallpox any more, right? (Except, unnervingly, soldiers)

So a small part of the issue is that quite honestly, nobody now remembers when kids routinely died of measles or mumps; or when families held their breaths all summer long hoping their kids' runny noses were only colds, and not the onset of polio. And without that immediacy, it becomes much easier to fall for the antivaxxer's message, since one has no personal memory of a sibling dead of measles or a cousin confined to an iron lung.

That could change in another generation.
 
2013-09-02 01:17:02 AM
It is so hilarious this kind of superstitious nonsense still exists in the developed world. As long as they want to get themselves sick more power to them.
 
2013-09-02 01:18:59 AM
Say, this reminds me of the joke about the Christian stuck in a flood, did anyone post that yet?
 
2013-09-02 01:49:45 AM
It really is a shame people have forgotten how awful a lot of these diseases are. It makes me think of this girl who was talking about how her housing application was delayed because she didn't have a meningitis shot. She said "I don't even know what meningitis is, but it must be terrible because they made such a big deal about getting vaccinated." She did reach the conclusion that it would be wise to get the shot, so her biggest problem was just getting the documentation through all the university offices.
 
2013-09-02 01:56:17 AM
National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program
The VICP is a no-fault alternative to the traditional tort system for resolving vaccine injury claims that provides compensation to people found to be injured by certain vaccines.

Key words ... "no fault"
 
2013-09-02 02:00:57 AM

Medusa's Daughter: Moral: Trust in God, but use common sense.


The cool thing is, this strategy works even without the first part!
 
2013-09-02 02:26:32 AM

dumbobruni: ThePastafarian:
Something good happens: "This was the work of God"

Something bad happens: "The Lord works in mysterious ways"

this is why I completely lost my faith, after seeing a family member battle ovarian cancer for 4 years. no one should have to go through that level of suffering, regardless of the final outcome.



 Really? Because I really want to say that too...but then I also have kids. And I work with kids. And I remember being a kid.

 I remember and also see kids getting really really upset over something trivial. Say little Johnny really really wants to go to see a movie being shown. He's been obsessing over the trailers for weeks, he was told they were going to go see the movie that night and... they don't go. For some normal reason (no tragedies). Johnny is crushed. He cries most of the evening in disappointment. 

 As adults, we tell Johnny that we understand he is disappointed, but also that it's nothing to cry over. He will see the movie another time, perhaps tomorrow. Or maybe he'll have to wait til it comes out on DVD. Johnny looks at them with red rimmed eyes and shakes his head "no". He had his heart set on seeing it tonight. He goes to bed still sad. 

 No adult that we know of would ever make a fuss about missing a movie like this. We're far enough back from the problem and aware of other things that it's just not that big of a deal. But kids do it all the time for this sort of trivial thing. And while some of them do it manipulatively, a good portion of them are honestly just that distressed. They are very close to the issue, in their small world it's a really big deal. 

 Now supposing for a second that we were to "back up" from "life" a bit. Can we back ourselves up to a point where normal traumas of humans (friends, family) dying, even horribly, become a similar "disappointing, but not soul crushing in their finality" issue? Putting on a sci-fi hat for a moment, can you imagine a universe beyond physical reality where the horrors of physical realities are reduced to the equivalent of an adult missing a movie versus Johnny? 

 You see, I can.

  And while I have no proof that such a world exists beyond my admittedly very active imagination, by the same token, I have no proof it doesn't. And if such a world does, there is no reason to believe I currently know (nor might it even be possible for me to know) how that world would work and effect me.

 And so, I try to take my trauma with a grain of salt. I acknowledge that tragedies and such are awful and heartbreaking for me. I  make no illusions about that not being the case. And it may very well be that when I die, I simply wink out of existence. 

Then again, I also might just be a universe-sized Johnny. Who's sadness and frustration, however real to me, simply don't stack up in the grand scheme of things. 

/only time will tell for certain.
//in the meantime I do the best I can, and make no illusions that I know "everything/anything" about how the universe/reality actually work.

 
2013-09-02 02:35:46 AM

Kali-Yuga: gja: Not all of us who identify as Christian are so universally idiotic.

Like all other mental illnesses and defects, religious belief has a spectrum of severity. You might think you lie on the lower end of the spectrum, like a highly functioning autistic or addict, but you still suffer from the same delusion and irrational beliefs as the full blown fundamentalists. 

In fact, I think it's very telling that the fundamentalists are proof for religious faith being a bad thing. if your religion has a problem with its fundamentalists, more than likely it's an issue with the fundamental beliefs and way of thinking your religion promotes.


Except you can make that argument against all of humanity. 

 Humanity, fundamentally has some pretty big issues that arise no matter what sort of situation we put ourselves in (and it's been about as varied as we can make it in recorded history all things considered.)

 If the sole basis of your argument is "Christians have delusions and irrational beliefs", but those two items show up in every other human situation/organization on the planet, it's a human problem. Not a "republican" or "liberal" problem.
 
2013-09-02 03:04:49 AM

psychosis_inducing: It really is a shame people have forgotten how awful a lot of these diseases are. It makes me think of this girl who was talking about how her housing application was delayed because she didn't have a meningitis shot. She said "I don't even know what meningitis is, but it must be terrible because they made such a big deal about getting vaccinated." She did reach the conclusion that it would be wise to get the shot, so her biggest problem was just getting the documentation through all the university offices.


I think that's key.  My parents lived through the last gasp of polio, so there was never any question we would get vaccinated.  We have a couple of generations now that have never known polio or small pox or measles.  The idea of an epidemic that could kill millions has been relegated to the realm of science fiction, despite the fact that the Spanish Flu did exactly that just a hundred years ago.  It's the curse of success, I guess.
 
2013-09-02 04:11:01 AM

Mentat: psychosis_inducing: It really is a shame people have forgotten how awful a lot of these diseases are. It makes me think of this girl who was talking about how her housing application was delayed because she didn't have a meningitis shot. She said "I don't even know what meningitis is, but it must be terrible because they made such a big deal about getting vaccinated." She did reach the conclusion that it would be wise to get the shot, so her biggest problem was just getting the documentation through all the university offices.

I think that's key.  My parents lived through the last gasp of polio, so there was never any question we would get vaccinated.  We have a couple of generations now that have never known polio or small pox or measles.  The idea of an epidemic that could kill millions has been relegated to the realm of science fiction, despite the fact that the Spanish Flu did exactly that just a hundred years ago.  It's the curse of success, I guess.


Even today, people think of measles as something that IF kids get it "Oh, doctors can treat that pretty easily"...which they can, up to a certain point. If few enough kids are sick, and the cases aren't too severe. Same with whooping cough. "Oh, kids don't die of whooping cough!" until the last year or two, when they did. Seems like unless it's really weird and exotic--OMG! West Nile! SARS!--people don't pay attention, nevermind the fact that those haven't yet killed large numbers of people. Or something gruesome and hard to catch--OMG! Flesh-eating bacteria!! But like I said, that could change in a couple of generations, we could be back to endemic measles and mumps and epidemic polio if we're not careful.
 
2013-09-02 04:33:40 AM
cuzsis:

 If the sole basis of your argument is "Christians have delusions and irrational beliefs", but those two items show up in every other human situation/organization on the planet, it's a human problem. Not a "republican" or "liberal" problem.

No it's not the sole argument, everyone has some irrational beliefs, even otherwise intelligent people, that's why they are a few theists with IQ's over 100, man isn't a rational animal, we're exceedingly good at rationalizing things though. Like the examples in this thread of christians trying to rationalize why prayer doesn't work by claiming it was really the god working through a doctor, or inspiring someone to invent a cure, or other such nonsense.

The thing is what while many people have irrational beliefs, not everyone bases their entire way of life or idea of morality on it the way theists do.

The fact, and it is a fact, that religious faith is by definition irrational, isn't the only argument against it, but the kind of flawed thinking and faulty reasoning necessary to be a believer leads to all sorts of other problems, including genocide, misogyny and anti-intellectualism. History furnishes countless examples of what happens when the religious are allowed to hold any sort of real power over the state or government.
 
2013-09-02 04:54:06 AM
The article leaves me with questions. Did the measles virus mutate or something? Because the article said "most of the people infected did not have their vaccinations." That implies some of them did. If they still ended up with measles, does that imply the vaccination is not 100% effective or that measles is mutating. What exactly is the implication?
 
2013-09-02 09:01:26 AM

Ruiizu: does that imply the vaccination is not 100%


Vaccines are not 100% for various reasons.

This is where herd immunity would have protected those still vulnerable ... but incredibly stupid people decided to put their children and other vulnerable people at risk.
 
2013-09-02 09:19:14 AM
Why don't they think the vaccines are the result of their god's good works? Do they eschew the transistor and the electric light as well? If any technology worked against the wishes of the OT god, I think it would be the electric light. And don't get me started on "daylight savings," aka Satan's Wristwatch.
 
2013-09-02 09:45:37 AM

mofa: Why don't they think the vaccines are the result of their god's good works? Do they eschew the transistor and the electric light as well? If any technology worked against the wishes of the OT god, I think it would be the electric light. And don't get me started on "daylight savings," aka Satan's Wristwatch.


Satan designed the Easy Cut Dispenser for Glad.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glad_%28company%29
 
gja [TotalFark]
2013-09-02 09:45:42 AM

Kali-Yuga: cuzsis:

 If the sole basis of your argument is "Christians have delusions and irrational beliefs", but those two items show up in every other human situation/organization on the planet, it's a human problem. Not a "republican" or "liberal" problem.

No it's not the sole argument, everyone has some irrational beliefs, even otherwise intelligent people, that's why they are a few theists with IQ's over 100, man isn't a rational animal, we're exceedingly good at rationalizing things though. Like the examples in this thread of christians trying to rationalize why prayer doesn't work by claiming it was really the god working through a doctor, or inspiring someone to invent a cure, or other such nonsense.

The thing is what while many people have irrational beliefs, not everyone bases their entire way of life or idea of morality on it the way theists do.

The fact, and it is a fact, that religious faith is by definition irrational, isn't the only argument against it, but the kind of flawed thinking and faulty reasoning necessary to be a believer leads to all sorts of other problems, including genocide, misogyny and anti-intellectualism. History furnishes countless examples of what happens when the religious are allowed to hold any sort of real power over the state or government.


Let me clear this up for you since you seem to have such an absolute black/white view of things as it pertains to certain aspects of life (which in itself is a bit disordered in of itself).
I identify as a man who most strongly leans toward Christian beliefs. That is: the teachings of the man who is thought to be Jesus.
There is no room in my life for the churches or the organized lot (such as they are) who have usurped them for their own uses.
Neither do I have anything but skepticism for any and all versions of bible/kuran/torah ec....
They are books written by men who claim to know what was said in a language they could not possible be fluent in, in a time their lineage was not a twinkle in their predecessors eyes. Rubbish, stuff and nonsense.

You are tremendously prejudiced in your approach to certain things. Your mind rolls down a veritable metal gate in it's closeness at the mere word 'christian'.
This is NOT a balanced manner nor the mark of intelligent discussion.

Kali-Yuga: that's why they are a few theists with IQ's over 100


Perhaps if I cared about what, or who, a theist really is I might give a damn. But here you get into territory of troubling waters if you think I am some dullard with a base mind. I will not post my Stanford ranking but suffice to say that I occupy an area less than 1 in 15mm people. For whatever a cognitive function test has to do with all of this. This discussion is in the arena of human behavior and system of values.

I find it no incongruous that your chosen moniker is a religious tag. One would wonder why another might do so. That is a bit vexing.

BTW, I am an engineer (EE, ME) with areas of study in light, near-light, laser and RF transmission. I am also an I.T. professional of some 25 years now.
My leaning towards an ordered an logical approach to life has some modifiers where people are concerned as to be a compassionate and human person in my dealing with my fellow man trumps my desire to have everything just as I wish it in my life. That is the decent way for a real human to be. One must realize one cannot go about saying and doing that which is unfeeling and unkind and expect to get back anything else. To expect others to treat you well while you act poorly is a characteristic of an immature and petulant child.

Maybe, just maybe, one can identify with Christian teachings, yet no be labeled 'religious' or 'faithful'. Maybe one CAN be both intellectually grounded and yet ponder that perhaps there are things we humans have not yet conquered and brought to light for examination. Stop trying to inextricably bind RELIGIOUS and FAITH together. They are separate concepts, sometimes.
 
2013-09-02 09:49:16 AM

gja: Your mind rolls down a veritable metal gate in it's closeness at the mere word 'christian'.


Could you open your mind to the correct usage of the apostrophe? And your other language tortures?
 
gja [TotalFark]
2013-09-02 09:50:04 AM

Kali-Yuga: your religion


MY religion....humorous. You know little to nothing of me yet you are happy to prejudge me based merely on my identifying with the teaching of a man who was thought to do much good in his life.

Open your mind, it's getting dusty in there old boy.
 
gja [TotalFark]
2013-09-02 09:51:06 AM

Quantum Apostrophe: gja: Your mind rolls down a veritable metal gate in it's closeness at the mere word 'christian'.

Could you open your mind to the correct usage of the apostrophe? And your other language tortures?


YOU try this an a smarty-phone!!! I want to torture the UI designer.
 
gja [TotalFark]
2013-09-02 09:54:28 AM

Quantum Apostrophe: gja: Your mind rolls down a veritable metal gate in it's closeness at the mere word 'christian'.

Could you open your mind to the correct usage of the apostrophe? And your other language tortures?


Please feel free to be a grammar cop. Expect me to not worry about such things as this is not an answer to an RFQ or RFP nor a thesis.
 
2013-09-02 10:32:48 AM

gja: I will not post my Stanford ranking but suffice to say that I occupy an area less than 1 in 15mm people.


Sorry, I am not familiar with "Stanford rankings". Are they measured in millimeters?

P.S. If you just want to follow 'moral' teachings they are available from non-magical sources.
 
gja [TotalFark]
2013-09-02 11:09:35 AM

Farking Canuck: gja: I will not post my Stanford ranking but suffice to say that I occupy an area less than 1 in 15mm people.

Sorry, I am not familiar with "Stanford rankings". Are they measured in millimeters?

P.S. If you just want to follow 'moral' teachings they are available from non-magical sources.


Stanford-Binet tests as ranked 1/x of population. I think you knew that, but chose instead to be snarky or obtuse. I have also been given Wechsler tests.

Morality and humane behavior, from whatever source, should be a welcome thing in this world. We should not be discouraging it merely because of an affiliation.
 
2013-09-02 01:23:45 PM

gja: Stanford-Binet tests as ranked 1/x of population. I think you knew that, but chose instead to be snarky or obtuse. I have also been given Wechsler tests.

Morality and humane behavior, from whatever source, should be a welcome thing in this world. We should not be discouraging it merely because of an affiliation.


No I am not familiar with any standardized tests aside from the famous IQ test. I consider them to be measures of many things but never really representative of true intelligence. I am an engineer (turned IT professional) myself and I have to say that I know more than a few engineers that were good at passing tests but I am ashamed that they carry the degree. They are not stupid per se, but they cannot solve real problems which is the core of engineering.

As for the snark ... I found the use of "mm" as your units humorous as this is most commonly used as the unit for millimeters (hence my comment). A quick google search suggests it can be used for million but it is not a use I've seen before.

Personally I feel that morals are defined by society ... both in laws, which serve as the very base set, and in other 'codes' like "do unto others" and "pay it forward". There is little need to go beyond that, especially since they are fluid. Going a static, magic based source simple loses you credibility. Especially since that source condones things that are currently considered immoral like slavery.
 
gja [TotalFark]
2013-09-02 02:08:41 PM

Farking Canuck: gja: Stanford-Binet tests as ranked 1/x of population. I think you knew that, but chose instead to be snarky or obtuse. I have also been given Wechsler tests.

Morality and humane behavior, from whatever source, should be a welcome thing in this world. We should not be discouraging it merely because of an affiliation.

No I am not familiar with any standardized tests aside from the famous IQ test. I consider them to be measures of many things but never really representative of true intelligence. I am an engineer (turned IT professional) myself and I have to say that I know more than a few engineers that were good at passing tests but I am ashamed that they carry the degree. They are not stupid per se, but they cannot solve real problems which is the core of engineering.

As for the snark ... I found the use of "mm" as your units humorous as this is most commonly used as the unit for millimeters (hence my comment). A quick google search suggests it can be used for million but it is not a use I've seen before.

Personally I feel that morals are defined by society ... both in laws, which serve as the very base set, and in other 'codes' like "do unto others" and "pay it forward". There is little need to go beyond that, especially since they are fluid. Going a static, magic based source simple loses you credibility. Especially since that source condones things that are currently considered immoral like slavery.


Well, we agree on almost all points, then. And yes, I sadly work with many folks who could not engineer a fix to a torn paper bag. And yet, they have more degrees than a thermometer. I was average at the rote memory side of schooling, but the labs and practical application of principles were where I really was able to set myself apart. I am an engineer, I fix things. I give solutions to needs and problems. It is my passion. If people want to become one to get wealthy I advise them to not do so, choosing instead a money management career so they can screw it out of their clients. Much more efficient and engineering is a lot of work, in the end.

As for the use of "mm" for millions I sometimes let my Wall Street life invade in my language, and that is how "millions" is typically expressed in financial terminology.
Mea culpa, I thought that terminology more ubiquitous than it would appear to be.

Morals SHOULD be defined by society. I like to use my base beliefs as a good starting point but have never accepted blindly. We need to use judgement.
 
2013-09-02 04:13:31 PM

gja: BTW, I am an engineer (EE, ME) with areas of study in light, near-light, laser and RF transmission.


That's awesome, but that doesn't require an especially gifted mind---at least, no more than specializing in accounting, or Cocoa development, or half of whatever people study in college.
 
2013-09-02 08:42:20 PM

gja: all of us who identify as Christian


suddenly becomes

gja: I identify as a man who most strongly leans toward Christian beliefs. That is: the teachings of the man who is thought to be Jesus.


Answer this:  do you believe Jesus Christ suffered and died for your sins, and do you take him as your personal savior? No semantics, no pedantry, just a simple yes or no.  There's no reason to "identify as Christian" because you're of the belief that people should generally be nice to each other.  It seems like you're being intentionally vague for the purpose of having an argument.

"Communicating badly and then acting smug when you're misunderstood is not cleverness."

gja: I have had this discussion in numerous other threads.


Sounds like you enjoy doing it, though.
 
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