If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Washington Post)   "Black budget" details the intelligence community isn't really the cloak and dagger Mensa meeting we're led to believe it is   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 88
    More: Interesting, black budget, intelligence community  
•       •       •

6017 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Aug 2013 at 11:28 AM (33 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



88 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

First | « | 1 | 2 | » | Last | Show all
 
2013-08-30 11:17:14 AM
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-08-30 11:31:06 AM
i was never a Snowden fan, but I thought "traitor" was too strong a word for him.  I don't think that now.  this has nothing to do with domestic surveillance, this is so damaging that WaPo won't even publish it.
 
2013-08-30 11:34:19 AM

vpb: i was never a Snowden fan, but I thought "traitor" was too strong a word for him.  I don't think that now.  this has nothing to do with domestic surveillance, this is so damaging that WaPo won't even publish it.


Agreed, this is pretty farked up

It doesnt even align with his original stated goals
 
2013-08-30 11:34:57 AM
I could actually see this being the thing that some spook arranges an accident for Snowden over.

I found it pretty hard to believe that he would think he'd be tortured in the US for revealing the FISA court abuses. Pretty clearly, that's not all he released to journalists. This has nothing to do with violating the rights of American citizens, he just revealed US Intelligence operations in foreign countries to the world at large.

When it's so bad that a left-leaning paper like the WaPo won't post it, that's telling you something.
 
2013-08-30 11:36:16 AM

vpb: i was never a Snowden fan, but I thought "traitor" was too strong a word for him.  I don't think that now.  this has nothing to do with domestic surveillance, this is so damaging that WaPo won't even publish it.


This has EVERYTHING to do with Domestic Surveillance.  The fact that the intelligence agencies budgets have balloon to over $62 billion  (all of which is voted on in secret and not disclosed to the American people) is extraordinarily troubling

The Soviet Union went away two decades ago,   the need for a massive spy vs spy intelligence service went with it.   The CIA's budget today should be 1/10th of what it was in 1989 but instead its basically tripled  (and they continue to completely SUCK at predicting anything.  The mised the Collapse fo the Soviet union, Downplayed the Rise fo Al-Qaeda, Whiffewd on Iraq's supposed WMD programs, failed to  see the Arab Spring coming, etc etc)  Why?  What are they doing with their money and are we getting good value for it?  It's a discussion we have a right to have as taxpayers and yet but for Snowden we would never have it.
 
2013-08-30 11:37:33 AM
Didn't read it. I'd have to burn it after reading, and it's on my monitor and my fire-burning app doesn't work with Windows.
 
2013-08-30 11:39:38 AM

Magorn: vpb: i was never a Snowden fan, but I thought "traitor" was too strong a word for him.  I don't think that now.  this has nothing to do with domestic surveillance, this is so damaging that WaPo won't even publish it.

This has EVERYTHING to do with Domestic Surveillance.  The fact that the intelligence agencies budgets have balloon to over $62 billion  (all of which is voted on in secret and not disclosed to the American people) is extraordinarily troubling

The Soviet Union went away two decades ago,   the need for a massive spy vs spy intelligence service went with it.   The CIA's budget today should be 1/10th of what it was in 1989 but instead its basically tripled  (and they continue to completely SUCK at predicting anything.  The mised the Collapse fo the Soviet union, Downplayed the Rise fo Al-Qaeda, Whiffewd on Iraq's supposed WMD programs, failed to  see the Arab Spring coming, etc etc)  Why?  What are they doing with their money and are we getting good value for it?  It's a discussion we have a right to have as taxpayers and yet but for Snowden we would never have it.


You're right.  It's not like there's ever been a terror plot agains the US or anything. Oh.
 
2013-08-30 11:40:55 AM

hardinparamedic: I could actually see this being the thing that some spook arranges an accident for Snowden over.

I found it pretty hard to believe that he would think he'd be tortured in the US for revealing the FISA court abuses. Pretty clearly, that's not all he released to journalists. This has nothing to do with violating the rights of American citizens, he just revealed US Intelligence operations in foreign countries to the world at large.

When it's so bad that a left-leaning paper like the WaPo won't post it, that's telling you something.


How did you get the impression the Washington Post was "left-leaning"?   Once upon a time, maybe, but not Since Lally Weymouth inherited Publishing Duties from Kay and Donald Graham.   Editorially they were right up there with Judy Miller in beating the war drums for Iraq.  Their op-ed staff includes Michael Gerson, former W. Speech writer and vociferous torture apologist, Jennifer "ridiculously, reflexively republican" Rubin, and of Course Eric Erikson who continues to have a job even after he basically called a liberal Supreme Court justice a Child Molester  just because he kind looke like one to Erikson
 
2013-08-30 11:41:41 AM

Magorn: This has EVERYTHING to do with Domestic Surveillance.  The fact that the intelligence agencies budgets have balloon to over $62 billion  (all of which is voted on in secret and not disclosed to the American people) is extraordinarily troubling


Foreign intelligence gathering and espionage/counter-espionage operations against foreign countries, which by law the CIA and NSA are allowed to perform have "EVERYTHING" to do with domestic surveillance, which is technically a violation of both Federal Law and presidential directive barring letter agencies from conducting operations against American citizens?

i.imgur.com

Magorn: What are they doing with their money and are we getting good value for it?  It's a discussion we have a right to have as taxpayers and yet but for Snowden we would never have it.


You have a right to know how much. You do not have the right to know how it's being spent to be used in the pursuit of their chartered mandate to execute their skills on foreign countries.
 
2013-08-30 11:44:33 AM

hiker9999: Magorn: vpb: i was never a Snowden fan, but I thought "traitor" was too strong a word for him.  I don't think that now.  this has nothing to do with domestic surveillance, this is so damaging that WaPo won't even publish it.

This has EVERYTHING to do with Domestic Surveillance.  The fact that the intelligence agencies budgets have balloon to over $62 billion  (all of which is voted on in secret and not disclosed to the American people) is extraordinarily troubling

The Soviet Union went away two decades ago,   the need for a massive spy vs spy intelligence service went with it.   The CIA's budget today should be 1/10th of what it was in 1989 but instead its basically tripled  (and they continue to completely SUCK at predicting anything.  The mised the Collapse fo the Soviet union, Downplayed the Rise fo Al-Qaeda, Whiffewd on Iraq's supposed WMD programs, failed to  see the Arab Spring coming, etc etc)  Why?  What are they doing with their money and are we getting good value for it?  It's a discussion we have a right to have as taxpayers and yet but for Snowden we would never have it.

You're right.  It's not like there's ever been a terror plot agains the US or anything. Oh.


Terror plots by small disorganized badly funded terror cells should NOT require the same level of resources to deal with as a massive, nuclear armed police state's entire security apparatus trying to actively undermine you and steal your military secrets.   There have been in nearly 30 years, how many sucessful terror attacks against the US?  And how many of those by non-Americans?

It's almost as if terror was a boogetman created by the secuity apparatus to desperately justify its own continued existance after its original reason for existing had gone away
 
2013-08-30 11:46:05 AM

Magorn: hiker9999: Magorn: vpb: i was never a Snowden fan, but I thought "traitor" was too strong a word for him.  I don't think that now.  this has nothing to do with domestic surveillance, this is so damaging that WaPo won't even publish it.

This has EVERYTHING to do with Domestic Surveillance.  The fact that the intelligence agencies budgets have balloon to over $62 billion  (all of which is voted on in secret and not disclosed to the American people) is extraordinarily troubling

The Soviet Union went away two decades ago,   the need for a massive spy vs spy intelligence service went with it.   The CIA's budget today should be 1/10th of what it was in 1989 but instead its basically tripled  (and they continue to completely SUCK at predicting anything.  The mised the Collapse fo the Soviet union, Downplayed the Rise fo Al-Qaeda, Whiffewd on Iraq's supposed WMD programs, failed to  see the Arab Spring coming, etc etc)  Why?  What are they doing with their money and are we getting good value for it?  It's a discussion we have a right to have as taxpayers and yet but for Snowden we would never have it.

You're right.  It's not like there's ever been a terror plot agains the US or anything. Oh.

Terror plots by small disorganized badly funded terror cells should NOT require the same level of resources to deal with as a massive, nuclear armed police state's entire security apparatus trying to actively undermine you and steal your military secrets.   There have been in nearly 30 years, how many sucessful terror attacks against the US?  And how many of those by non-Americans?

It's almost as if terror was a boogetman created by the secuity apparatus to desperately justify its own continued existance after its original reason for existing had gone away


Mission creep FTL.
 
2013-08-30 11:46:26 AM
Seventy percent of America's intelligence budget now flows to private contractors. Going by this year's estimated budget of about $80 billion, that makes private intelligence a $56 billion-a-year industry.


We're outsourcing jobs and national security.
 
2013-08-30 11:46:55 AM

Magorn: The Soviet Union went away two decades ago, the need for a massive spy vs spy intelligence service went with it. The CIA's budget today should be 1/10th of what it was in 1989 but instead its basically tripled (and they continue to completely SUCK at predicting anything. The mised the Collapse fo the Soviet union, Downplayed the Rise fo Al-Qaeda, Whiffewd on Iraq's supposed WMD programs, failed to see the Arab Spring coming, etc etc) Why? What are they doing with their money and are we getting good value for it? It's a discussion we have a right to have as taxpayers and yet but for Snowden we would never have it.


This.

They have turned spying on Americans into their mission and spent $52.6 billion farking dollars on it last year alone.

This is why our farking bridges are collapsing people. Stop spending the money on all those highly profitable wars and highly profitable private spying contractors.

In the fiscal year ended in March 2013, Booz Allen Hamilton reported $5.76 billion in revenue, 99 percent of which came from government contracts, and $219 million in net income. Almost a quarter of its revenue-$1.3 billion-was from major U.S. intelligence agencies.

Along with competitors such as Science Applications International Corp. (SAIC), CACI, and BAE Systems (BAESY), the McLean (Va.)-based firm is a prime beneficiary of an explosion in government spending on intelligence contractors over the past decade. About 70 percent of the 2013 U.S. intelligence budget is contracted out, according to a Bloomberg Industries analysis; the Office of the Director of National Intelligence (ODNI) says almost a fifth of intelligence personnel work in the private sector.
 
2013-08-30 11:47:14 AM
"Black budget" details the intelligence community

Is it just me, or does it seem that this sentence is missing a verb?
 
2013-08-30 11:47:20 AM

And Fark ate my link.



http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/18/opinion/put-the-spies-back-under-on e -roof.html?_r=5&
 
2013-08-30 11:47:30 AM
This leakage crap seriously has to be dealt with now.
 
2013-08-30 11:47:38 AM

generallyso: Seventy percent of America's intelligence budget now flows to private contractors. Going by this year's estimated budget of about $80 billion, that makes private intelligence a $56 billion-a-year industry.


We're outsourcing jobs and national security.


B-b-b-but the private sector! Government inefficiency!

/meh
//time to unplug and do something else
 
2013-08-30 11:48:32 AM

BullBearMS: Along with competitors such as Science Applications International Corp. (SAIC), CACI, and BAE Systems (BAESY), the McLean (Va.)-based firm is a prime beneficiary of an explosion in government spending on intelligence contractors over the past decade. About 70 percent of the 2013 U.S. intelligence budget is contracted out, according to a Bloomberg Industries analysis; the Office of the Director of National Intelligence (ODNI) says almost a fifth of intelligence personnel work in the private sector.


You do make a good point about the amount of waste and abuse that is caused by contracting and outsourcing. I have a friend who's an E4, who works on avionics. He makes a 10th of what the private contractors he works with makes.
 
2013-08-30 11:49:16 AM

OKObserver: This leakage crap seriously has to be dealt with now.


www.disposablemedicalexpress.com

/had to
//okay, done now
 
2013-08-30 11:49:22 AM
Robin Hood was a terrorist.
 
2013-08-30 11:49:23 AM

Magorn: It's almost as if terror was a boogetman created by the secuity apparatus to desperately justify its own continued existance after its original reason for existing had gone away


It's not almost like it.

It's exactly like it.
 
2013-08-30 11:51:09 AM

hardinparamedic: You do make a good point about the amount of waste and abuse that is caused by contracting and outsourcing.


It's not waste and abuse if it's putting your kids through prep school.
 
2013-08-30 11:52:22 AM

macadamnut: hardinparamedic: You do make a good point about the amount of waste and abuse that is caused by contracting and outsourcing.

It's not waste and abuse if it's putting your kids through prep school.


Your kids can go eat a dick and DIAF when people who do the same thing are on food stamps.
 
2013-08-30 11:54:16 AM
You ain't just whistling Dixie, Bubba!

To give you an idea of how "dumb" the intelligence community is, MI5, the domestic intelligence agency of the UK (MI6 does the foreign stuff) was largely founded by the Daily Fail according to an article I read recently (AATIRR).

A bunch of gormless losers, tossers and wankers, in other words.

Here's a link to the original item on which the AATIRR was based:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/adamcurtis/posts/BUGGER

A shorter and more direct report:   http://ottersandsciencenews.blogspot.ca/2013/08/daily-mails-role-in-c r eation-of-spy.html

It looks like maybe the Britcom The Piglet Files (slim Wikipedia article) is a documentary (link goes to IMDB). People who liked Yes, Minister and Yes, Prime Minister, may not be surprised. The real Macchiavelian plotters work for us. God help us. With friends like these, who needs enemies?

I have watched all of these and they've done more to form my conception of British "intelligence" than any amount of James Bond and other wish fulfillment fiction. Of course, the British were famously infliltrated by the Russians, but that just made it easier to throw all the spies out eventually because everybody knew everybody else.

I recommend the Piglet Files for your mild amusement if you like British comedy. You might also profit from reading Graham Greene's Our Man in Havana or similar tongue-in-cheek work. It's way more accurate than anything the conspiracy nutters come up with, even if the dumbness of the conspiracies matches the dumbness of the real plots and counter-plots perfectly. The only thing wrong with the conspiracy theories is that few if any of them are true--they are, however, something more important than true--they are plausible.
 
2013-08-30 11:54:37 AM

hardinparamedic: Magorn: This has EVERYTHING to do with Domestic Surveillance.  The fact that the intelligence agencies budgets have balloon to over $62 billion  (all of which is voted on in secret and not disclosed to the American people) is extraordinarily troubling

Foreign intelligence gathering and espionage/counter-espionage operations against foreign countries, which by law the CIA and NSA are allowed to perform have "EVERYTHING" to do with domestic surveillance, which is technically a violation of both Federal Law and presidential directive barring letter agencies from conducting operations against American citizens?

[i.imgur.com image 350x267]

Magorn: What are they doing with their money and are we getting good value for it?  It's a discussion we have a right to have as taxpayers and yet but for Snowden we would never have it.

You have a right to know how much. You do not have the right to know how it's being spent to be used in the pursuit of their chartered mandate to execute their skills on foreign countries.


they do now, because those agencies blurred the lines between foreign and domestic by expanding the defintions of foreign surveillance to a breaking point (at a time when the global inter-connectivity of the world more of less renders the distinction outdated and artifical anyway)   I have a right to know what the government does in my name, because I am in charge of it-they are supposed to keep secrets from our enemies, not our citizens.

This reflexive genuflection to the concept of "national security" is a recent one in out country's history and a dangerous relic of the cold war.   Back when we really were facing down a nuclear-armed superpower who had both the capacity and active desire to do us great harm, one that was constantly trying to steal our military secrets and with whom we were in an arms race that was likely to end in open military conflict; Such atttitudes could, perhaps be justified.

But no more.   China isn't that kind of rival and Russia moulders on the ashheap of history as a declining state.  The Cold war is over, and the quasi-military culture of secrecy that began in WWII and continued through that era needs to come to an end.

Twice before in our history....in WWI and During the COINTELPRO days of the 60's and 70's, we built up massive "secret police" type apparatuses for domestic surveillance and monitoring, in the name of countering threats to national security from foreigners.   In both cases they were wildly and badly abused, and twice now we have mustered the poltical will to dismatle them.

It's time to see if we can rise to that challenge again.    Ashcrofts "phantoms of lost liberty" have become extremely corporeal of late.
 
2013-08-30 11:56:03 AM

hardinparamedic: macadamnut: hardinparamedic: You do make a good point about the amount of waste and abuse that is caused by contracting and outsourcing.

It's not waste and abuse if it's putting your kids through prep school.

Your kids can go eat a dick and DIAF when people who do the same thing are on food stamps.


Food stamps are theft.
 
2013-08-30 11:56:08 AM

OKObserver: This leakage crap seriously has to be dealt with now.


Agreed. Governments that abuse the trust their citizens have placed in them need to have their power seriously curtailed or removed. Good observation!
 
2013-08-30 12:00:04 PM
If the Marx Brothers were alive today I would feel safer with them running the NSA.
 
2013-08-30 12:03:58 PM
It's obvious this is not about keeping America safe, it's about transferring wealth to connected people.  Just like the Cold War arms race did back in the day.   Wars like Vietnam and Iraq were big moneymakers for the right people too, it's all so transparent I can't believe people can look at it and say it's all about how "It keeps us safe".

That's why they won't allow any audits, because the whole point is to shuffle the money away out of sight.  When someone tells you to not worry about it and leave up to them, they know what needs to be done, that's when you know you're getting played.
 
2013-08-30 12:04:06 PM

hardinparamedic: I could actually see this being the thing that some spook arranges an accident for Snowden over.

I found it pretty hard to believe that he would think he'd be tortured in the US for revealing the FISA court abuses. Pretty clearly, that's not all he released to journalists. This has nothing to do with violating the rights of American citizens, he just revealed US Intelligence operations in foreign countries to the world at large.

When it's so bad that a left-leaning paper like the WaPo won't post it, that's telling you something.


Left leaning? You must be thinking of the City Paper. The WaPo is aligned with the villagers.
 
2013-08-30 12:04:15 PM
 
2013-08-30 12:07:22 PM
Meh. None of what's here is particularly interesting. Certainly not as interesting as the Pentagon Papers were.

Sure it's great that they fight "terrorism," whatever that is.
 
2013-08-30 12:10:07 PM
hiker9999:

You're right.  It's not like there's ever been a terror plot agains the US or anything. Oh.

Like that Boston plot that none of the TLAs picked up on until there were bodies on the street.
 
2013-08-30 12:11:28 PM

dj_bigbird: Like that Boston plot that none of the TLAs picked up on until there were bodies on the street.


Three-letter acronyms?
 
2013-08-30 12:13:05 PM
Does it strike anyone else that among all the serious, professional looking agency logos that the logo for the DEA looks like it was designed by someone enjoying ecstasy?
 
2013-08-30 12:15:43 PM
Why doesn't anyone believe THIS could be a "false flag"? I find it hard to believe that the government can be so smart and so dumb at the same time. It's like boxing. Showing one thing while doing another. There's one thing on the surface while another is going on that the public is going to know about. And this is not new.

The overt threats of a strike against Syria - Do you honestly think a number of covert operations have not been run there? Whether they were successful or not, only a few people will ever know.
 
2013-08-30 12:20:46 PM

LandOfChocolate: vpb: i was never a Snowden fan, but I thought "traitor" was too strong a word for him.  I don't think that now.  this has nothing to do with domestic surveillance, this is so damaging that WaPo won't even publish it.

Agreed, this is pretty farked up

It doesnt even align with his original stated goals


This is Greewald throwing a fit. He has lost ALL credibility.
 
2013-08-30 12:23:20 PM
Black budget?  Thanks Obama!
 
2013-08-30 12:23:41 PM
Yep, this is about as much as I expected and I'm not at all surprised that the man ended up in Russia when everything is said and done.
 
2013-08-30 12:24:35 PM
Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity.
 
2013-08-30 12:30:09 PM

The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves: Meh. None of what's here is particularly interesting. Certainly not as interesting as the Pentagon Papers were.

Sure it's great that they fight "terrorism," whatever that is.


The most interesting aspect to me is the 56 billion going to private firms. Our government doesn't control our own national security. Corporations do. They hold the majority of the "knowledge" now.

Control means power. And yes, I realize corporations run America, but this is a whole different level.
 
Ral
2013-08-30 12:33:15 PM

Magorn: hiker9999: Magorn: vpb:  There have been in nearly 30 years, how many sucessful terror attacks against the US?  And how many of those by non-Americans?


Well, according to Wikipedia, approximately 38 incidents, resulting in the loss of thousands of lives (and that's NOT including 9/11).

And one might easily argue that it hasn't been worse precisely because of our espionage infrastructure.
 
2013-08-30 12:36:12 PM
But has no money to provide healthcare to all of its citizens. Go USA!
 
2013-08-30 12:39:25 PM

AngryDragon: Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity.


corollary : Never underestimate the power of stupid people in groups
 
2013-08-30 12:42:06 PM

Ral: And one might easily argue that it hasn't been worse precisely because of our espionage infrastructure.


And then someone remembers US intelligence agencies were handed one of the Boston Bombers on a platter and decided he wasn't anything worth being concerned over.
 
2013-08-30 12:42:39 PM

Ral: Magorn: hiker9999: Magorn: vpb:  There have been in nearly 30 years, how many sucessful terror attacks against the US?  And how many of those by non-Americans?

Well, according to Wikipedia, approximately 38 incidents, resulting in the loss of thousands of lives (and that's NOT including 9/11).

And one might easily argue that it hasn't been worse precisely because of our espionage infrastructure.


Nonsense.  If we didn't go around protecting American interests, they'd have no reason to blow us up.

What's funny is that some people actually believe that.
 
2013-08-30 12:44:22 PM
Oh please, anyone who thinks that "Al-Quaeda" is anything more than a generic boogeyman designed to give us a reason to throw massive amounts, pallets even, of money at connected people is a complete rube. You really think there is a gigantic organization of ne'er-do-wells operating in deserts and mountains without electricity, able to coordinate in-depth attacks on America? The studied-out fact is that all evidence points to us and only us as the originator of our evils. Did you know that the 911 "highjackers" were seen training to fly at the same facility McViegh was trained in assymetrical warfare?

In Short, it costs a hell of a lot of money to retain control of a population, and we have voted to keep paying our paving with this blood money.
 
2013-08-30 12:46:40 PM

generallyso: Ral: And one might easily argue that it hasn't been worse precisely because of our espionage infrastructure.

And then someone remembers US intelligence agencies were handed one of the Boston Bombers on a platter and decided he wasn't anything worth being concerned over.


How misleading of you!

He was picked up and questioned by Federal agents about his imminent visit to Russia and what he intended to do there.  See, the Russians asked us to make sure he wasn't going to be a problem when he came over.  And they determined that he wasn't.  So, they let him go and SURPRISE he wasn't a problem when he got over there.

And this was back in 2010, I believe?

So, it's amazing how you can take 'that' nugget of information and twist it into sounding as if we 'had' the terrorist in hand and let him go so he could go out and blow stuff up when that wasn't the case at all...
 
2013-08-30 12:49:40 PM

Infernalist: So, it's amazing how you can take 'that' nugget of information and twist it into sounding as if we 'had' the terrorist in hand and let him go so he could go out and blow stuff up when that wasn't the case at all...


Also don't forget that when he came back we asked "Hey, anything we should know about this possible screw ball" and we got

...........
 
2013-08-30 12:52:55 PM

croesius: Oh please, anyone who thinks...


2/10 must try harder - fact pulled from ass not remotely believable
 
Displayed 50 of 88 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report