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(Reuters)   You aren't poor because you are stupid. You are stupid because you are poor   (reuters.com) divider line 64
    More: Unlikely, goal difference, University of Warwick, poverty  
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6964 clicks; posted to Main » on 29 Aug 2013 at 5:42 PM (45 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
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2013-08-29 06:15:05 PM
9 votes:

marsoft: austerity101: marsoft: I call bullshiat.

I was born in a "poor" family.  Both of my parents were in prison until I was aged 8 (don't ask).  I grew up wearing my older brothers out grown clothes. I don't mean some of my clothes used to be his I mean all of them until I was 15, when I got a job and started buying my own.

I am talking eating jam sandwiches for dinner poor (if you got dinner).

Now?  I have a good job, a good degree, and am studying for a masters degree.

Being poor does not make you stupid.

Of course, that's not what the study says.

Well to be specific the study says being poor drops your IQ by 13 points.  Or are we reading different studies?


That's not what it says, either.

Financial stress caused by scarcity causes impairment equivalent to a 13 point drop in IQ. It's distracting, it doesn't somehow leech your brain cells away.

I hope your degree does not require reading comprehension.
2013-08-29 06:10:55 PM
7 votes:

marsoft: Ah, now this is where I can provide some evidence. When I was a younger and went on what in the UK was called "Employment Training", I ended up very quickly as a tutor for the long term unemployed. I specialised in IT skills and adult numeracy and literacy.

I can extend my sample set to several hundred people who were very intelligent but had little or no formal education, but had been written off as stupid poor people.

Many of my students went on to hold down good, well paying jobs, that usually required a degree.

I think I DO know what I am talking about, and have a decent set of numbers to back it up.


I don't think you understand what the article is saying or are giving too much credence to the headline.
It's not that the poor are truly stupid, or even incapable, it's that the mental demands of being poor are taxing their brainpower to such a degree that they have less ability to focus, think, and plan.
2013-08-29 06:03:28 PM
7 votes:

marsoft: I call bullshiat.

I was born in a "poor" family.  Both of my parents were in prison until I was aged 8 (don't ask).  I grew up wearing my older brothers out grown clothes. I don't mean some of my clothes used to be his I mean all of them until I was 15, when I got a job and started buying my own.

I am talking eating jam sandwiches for dinner poor (if you got dinner).

Now?  I have a good job, a good degree, and am studying for a masters degree.

Being poor does not make you stupid.


It made you too stupid to understand that a single anecdote isn't a valid sample size from which meaningful conclusions about complex issues can be drawn.
2013-08-29 05:58:48 PM
7 votes:
"The thing about not having much money is you have to take much more responsibility for your life. You can't pay people to watch your kids or clean your house or fix your meals. You can't necessarily afford a car or a washing machine or a home in a good school district. That's what money buys you: goods and services that make your life easier.

The working poor haven't abdicated responsibility for their lives. They're drowning in it." Link
2013-08-29 06:36:42 PM
6 votes:

marsoft: Sergeant Grumbles: marsoft: Ah, now this is where I can provide some evidence. When I was a younger and went on what in the UK was called "Employment Training", I ended up very quickly as a tutor for the long term unemployed. I specialised in IT skills and adult numeracy and literacy.

I can extend my sample set to several hundred people who were very intelligent but had little or no formal education, but had been written off as stupid poor people.

Many of my students went on to hold down good, well paying jobs, that usually required a degree.

I think I DO know what I am talking about, and have a decent set of numbers to back it up.

I don't think you understand what the article is saying or are giving too much credence to the headline.
It's not that the poor are truly stupid, or even incapable, it's that the mental demands of being poor are taxing their brainpower to such a degree that they have less ability to focus, think, and plan.

I am saying that is bullshiat. I am saying that being poor does not make you less able to focus, think or plan.

In fact I am saying the opposite can be true. It just depends on where the focus is.  If you are for instance so poor you cannot afford food, it basically forces you to focus, think, and plan on how to get enough money to eat.


And while you were all focused on how to get your next meal, you just ran a red light and got a ticket for $100. 

 Had you not been stressing about food, you  would not have missed the red light and not cost yourself $100. 

 The equivalent "mental drain" on being poor is about the same as having a lousy night's sleep. You can still get through the day, but your odds of making simple mistakes go up and cost you. 

. While I'm sure you were uncool (wearing hand me downs) and hungry. You weren't the one scrambling to make ends meet like your guardian. You weren't responsible for putting food on the table for everyone, responsible for other people having a place to live, and basically having the entire welfare of the family riding on your every decision where one mistake was going to royally screw everyone.

  That's a big farking difference than being a kid and being hungry (as sucky as that is.).
2013-08-29 05:45:51 PM
5 votes:
That's a lot of words for "constant stress hurts your decision making capabilities".
2013-08-29 09:56:33 PM
4 votes:

WordyGrrl: Two types of poor people:
1) Those who believe they are powerless, and that their lives will never improve, no matter what they do. These are the binge spenders, non-savers, frivolous types who get $20 manicures and buy $50 in lottery tickets every month. Chances are, their parents told them "Live for today, 'cause it won't get no better than this."

2) Those who seek power to improve their lives, and actively strive to find opportunities to do so in order to rebel against the poverty they were born into. They'll be way more stressed out than Group 1, and they may not actually reach that "good life" status, but some of them will. And that's enough hope to keep going.


There are myriad types of idiots, but at least one thinks only in black and white.
2013-08-29 07:04:55 PM
4 votes:
"The reason that the rich were so rich, Vimes reasoned, was because they managed to spend less money.

Take boots, for example. He earned thirty-eight dollars a month plus allowances. A really good pair of leather boots cost fifty dollars. But an affordable pair of boots, which were sort of OK for a season or two and then leaked like hell when the cardboard gave out, cost about ten dollars. Those were the kind of boots Vimes always bought, and wore until the soles were so thin that he could tell where he was in Ankh-Morpork on a foggy night by the feel of the cobbles.

But the thing was that good boots lasted for years and years. A man who could afford fifty dollars had a pair of boots that'd still be keeping his feet dry in ten years' time, while the poor man who could only afford cheap boots would have spent a hundred dollars on boots in the same time and would still have wet feet.

This was the Captain Samuel Vimes 'Boots' theory of socioeconomic unfairness."

― Terry Pratchett, Men at Arms: The Play
2013-08-29 06:51:27 PM
4 votes:

marsoft: Direct quote from the article

In the mall study, they gathered dozens of low and middle-income shoppers and subjected them to a battery of tests to measure IQ and impulse control.

In India, the researchers found that farmers had diminished cognitive performance before getting paid for their harvest compared to afterwards, when their coffers have been replenished.

So in the US they asked dozens of people in a mall, in India there is no mention of how many people were in the study.

An this is the science you want me to debunk, seriously?


According to the research article, here were 101 subjects in the mall study, and 464 subjects in the India study.

Exercise:  what is the statistical power of this study to detect a ~13 point difference in samples of this size (given an assumed 15-point standard deviation in the general population)?

Also, some quotes from the article:

"The data reported here suggest a different perspective on poverty: Being poor means coping not just with a shortfall of money, but also with a concurrent shortfall of cognitive resources. The poor, in this view, are less capable not because of inherent traits, but because the very context of poverty imposes load and impedes cognitive capacity. The findings, in other words, are not about poor people, but about any people who find themselves poor."

"How large are these effects? Sleep researchers have examined the cognitive impact (on Raven's) of losing a full night of sleep through experimental manipulations (38). In standard deviation terms, the
laboratory study findings are of the same size, and the field findings are three quarters that size. Put simply, evoking financial concerns has a cognitive impact comparable with losing a full night of sleep. In addition, similar effect sizes have been observed in the performance on Raven's matrices of chronic alcoholics versus normal adults (39) and of 60- versus 45-year-olds (40). By way of calibration, according to a
common approximation used by intelligence researchers, with a mean of 100 and a standard deviation of 15 the effects we observed correspond to ~13 IQ points. These sizable magnitudes suggest the cognitive impact of poverty could have large real consequences."
2013-08-29 06:01:21 PM
4 votes:
After Reagan and Thatcher established the language of the mid-Victorian mill-owner as the rhetoric of political discourse, the 'deserving poor' were going to be marginally better treated by the State than the 'undeserving' poor. This would get people out of the welfare trance and into the economy. Fine. Except the jobs they got were the ones which paid the least and which people needed the most. And they came out of the poverty trance to the realization that since society didn't really give a damn, neither did they. Rise of crime rate, though growing signs of solidarity amongst the outlaw tribes. There is still a class not being addressed and which nobody is successful in repressing. Only in countries which adopted the T/R model have crime, children bearing children and urban and rural poverty risen in such numbers. Countries which pay high taxes, give teeth to their social services, run a humane health service whose first duty is to patients (not 'caring' rhetoric approved by shareholders) and actually feed the hungry as a matter of the social contract between voters and their representatives. For the majority of voters will tell you they don't mind paying taxes so long as that money goes to the places it's supposed to go. If they object, give them the option of opting out of society as some rural communes have successfully done. Not that many are absolutely free of society but some have come close.
And if people lack the imagination to see such realities for themselves, I don't know. If this is going to be no more than a larger quake than the last one after which we can all go back to normal, then I see an increasingly impoverished future. If we can decentralize AND improve social services by encouraging, if you like, an equal distribution of taxes, so much the better. The dream of an America devoted to individual liberty, made up of thousands of small communities, ensuring justice at every level, self-discipline being something worth attaining... is one I've always kept as an ideal, though there now has to be an urban version of that, of course.
The American Dream clashed a bit with the advantages of an enlarged, tax-paying immigrant base which further devalued labor to the advantage of capital. And I think it's likely to worsen now, if people decide to impress the T/R pattern with increased violence. We need flexible thinkers, not monumental institutions restored to us or we ARE done for.

- Moorcock

Beware the Poverty Trance....
2013-08-29 08:10:49 PM
3 votes:

Dusk-You-n-Me: "The thing about not having much money is you have to take much more responsibility for your life. You can't pay people to watch your kids or clean your house or fix your meals. You can't necessarily afford a car or a washing machine or a home in a good school district. That's what money buys you: goods and services that make your life easier.
The working poor haven't abdicated responsibility for their lives. They're drowning in it." Link


I like that. I can work on my computer, I don't eat out, I exercise at home instead of at a gym. I cook, clean, sew my clothes, paint my house, do repairs and maintenance to it, change the oil in my car, fix flat tires and do minor repairs. You know why I"m so damn talented? I'm farking poor.
2013-08-29 06:22:35 PM
3 votes:

marsoft: I am saying that is bullshiat. I am saying that being poor does not make you less able to focus, think or plan.

In fact I am saying the opposite can be true. It just depends on where the focus is. If you are for instance so poor you cannot afford food, it basically forces you to focus, think, and plan on how to get enough money to eat.


Oh. In that case, it's bullshiat and you're a moron. For all your talk of being poor, you've either never had to worry about where your next meal was coming from or you learned nothing from the experience. Desperation doesn't make people smarter, it makes them irrational.
2013-08-29 06:16:17 PM
3 votes:
Also, it's well-known that long-term continual stress impairs the hippocampus, which is the key part of the brain for forming memories, crucial to learning.
2013-08-29 05:52:03 PM
3 votes:

marsoft: I call bullshiat.

I was born in a "poor" family.  Both of my parents were in prison until I was aged 8 (don't ask).  I grew up wearing my older brothers out grown clothes. I don't mean some of my clothes used to be his I mean all of them until I was 15, when I got a job and started buying my own.

I am talking eating jam sandwiches for dinner poor (if you got dinner).

Now?  I have a good job, a good degree, and am studying for a masters degree.

Being poor does not make you stupid.


Of course, that's not what the study says.
2013-08-29 09:45:32 PM
2 votes:
TomD9938:
/ there was always money for beer and smokes

Beer and smokes are cheap. TVs, iPhones and Xboxes are cheap. Refrigerators are cheap.  Getting rid of these things won't get people out of poverty because it takes much more to get out of poverty. It does, however, make poverty pass more amicably.
2013-08-29 08:07:17 PM
2 votes:

marsoft: I call bullshiat.

I was born in a "poor" family.  Both of my parents were in prison until I was aged 8 (don't ask).  I grew up wearing my older brothers out grown clothes. I don't mean some of my clothes used to be his I mean all of them until I was 15, when I got a job and started buying my own.

I am talking eating jam sandwiches for dinner poor (if you got dinner).

Now?  I have a good job, a good degree, and am studying for a masters degree.

Being poor does not make you stupid.


The thing is, they're not talking about you, you were the child of people with the 'decision fatigue' to use a term from the Romney article linked by someone else. You didn't have to suffer the major stressors that cause the issue at hand. I'm sure you had some referred stress from being poor that you managed to overcome, but you weren't running the family finances and having to make the call that there were only jam sandwiches for your children's dinner and owning the stress and shame that comes with that.

Your parents obviously managed to do a good thing by raising you to escape the poverty, but did they escape it themselves?
2013-08-29 06:52:19 PM
2 votes:

marsoft: When has dozens of people ever been a good sample for a scientific study?


When the effect size is large enough that you don't need a larger sample to detect significant differences.
2013-08-29 06:44:33 PM
2 votes:
The fact something like 85% of the worlds wealth is held by 5% of the population is just semantics, really.
2013-08-29 06:42:34 PM
2 votes:

Dion Fortune: The elephant in the room is that poor people LOVE to waste their money.  Everyone always talks about  "Healthy food is expensive, so poor people can't buy healthy food."  But I've NEVER seen a poor person not have enough money to spend on booze, cigarettes.  I remember reading a statistic somewhere that poor smokers spend a full 1/3rd of their income on cigarettes.  Poor people always have a smart phone, they can get their hair/nails done every week, they buy christmas presents for all their friends.

Then when they get into some money they spend it as quickly as possible on a brand new car or house, etc. that they obviously can't afford to maintain.  Gotta buy a brand new dining-room set to impress the cousins!  It's about not having impulse control or the ability to plan, not about IQ-type intelligence.

For instance there was that girl who got about 700k for falsely accusing Brian Banks of rape and then suing her school.  Just a few years later... she's a single mother on welfare.  Couldn't spend any of that money on birth control, or a college education, or starting a business, but that is not unusual at all.  So many poor people like to shat out babies all over the place and then complain about being poor.  But nevermind that, we always have to paint poor people as helpless victims.


Funny thing about all those things you mentioned...they are by and large cheaper than eating healthy regularly (esp for a family). Even the cigarettes. 

/great times we live in, eh? 
//yes, I do know poor people who do not spend lots of money on those things you mention (they might get a six pack on in a while for a social gather or something). They still don't have enough to eat well.
2013-08-29 06:26:44 PM
2 votes:

marsoft: I am saying that is bullshiat. I am saying that being poor does not make you less able to focus, think or plan.


But you have given no evidence of this claim.  It's just an assertion.  You haven't systematically compared the average ability of poor people to focus, think, or plan to a similar population of rich people.

In fact I am saying the opposite can be true. It just depends on where the focus is.  If you are for instance so poor you cannot afford food, it basically forces you to focus, think, and plan on how to get enough money to eat.

That's irrelevant to the findings of this study, which asked poor and rich people to focus on the same tasks.  It's not a comparison of poor people with focus to rich people without focus.
2013-08-29 06:22:46 PM
2 votes:

marsoft: I can extend my sample set to several hundred people who were very intelligent but had little or no formal education, but had been written off as stupid poor people.


The mere existence of smart poor people does not refute the findings of this study.  I'm not saying the study is necessarily right, I haven't read it, but your arguments against it are irrelevant.

The study does not say "poor people are dumb".  It says that, "on average, poor people have lower cognitive performance on certain tasks than rich people".  It's a relative comparison between poor and rich people.  You can observe as many poor people as you like, but it's irrelevant if you don't compare them to a "similar" population of rich people, and look for differences.  Also, the study found that cognitive performance improved within the same person as their income increased, so it's not some absolute statement about their native "intelligence".
2013-08-29 05:50:24 PM
2 votes:
I call bullshiat.

I was born in a "poor" family.  Both of my parents were in prison until I was aged 8 (don't ask).  I grew up wearing my older brothers out grown clothes. I don't mean some of my clothes used to be his I mean all of them until I was 15, when I got a job and started buying my own.

I am talking eating jam sandwiches for dinner poor (if you got dinner).

Now?  I have a good job, a good degree, and am studying for a masters degree.

Being poor does not make you stupid.
2013-08-29 05:48:14 PM
2 votes:
I think people in general and this study in particular over generalizes what causes people to be poor and over estimates the intelligence of rich people.

/not poor
//not rich
///genius IQ
////IQ doesn't mean shiat
2013-08-29 05:46:53 PM
2 votes:
1-media-cdn.foolz.us
2013-08-29 05:44:18 PM
2 votes:
No, you're poor because you're lazy.  You're stupid because you are too lazy to overcome your stupidity
2013-08-30 03:28:38 PM
1 votes:
To put it more simply: wealth is a buffer between your mistakes and the impact of those mistakes.  The wealthier you are, the more mistakes or the larger the mistakes you can make without being adversely affected by the consequences.

When you're poor, every roll is a saving throw vs. socioeconomic disaster.

/Mom was the first person from either side of her family to go to college; worked her way through a state school as a checker at Safeway
//The fact that I can pull 6 figures without a degree is more a tribute to how awesome she is than how awesome I am
2013-08-29 10:28:15 PM
1 votes:
Awesome, another scientific study debunked by Farkers' anecdotes.  I don't understand why the government doesn't just fund Fark directly to do research.
2013-08-29 09:51:18 PM
1 votes:
"I'm not sure how I'm going to feed my kids this week, and my power just got disconnected, and my spouse just had a heart attack and we have no insurance... But, sure! I'll just drop all those silly cares and put every bit of my brain matter into taking your little pretend quiz for your school project, College Boy."

Two types of poor people:
1) Those who believe they are powerless, and that their lives will never improve, no matter what they do. These are the binge spenders, non-savers, frivolous types who get $20 manicures and buy $50 in lottery tickets every month. Chances are, their parents told them "Live for today, 'cause it won't get no better than this."

2) Those who seek power to improve their lives, and actively strive to find opportunities to do so in order to rebel against the poverty they were born into. They'll be way more stressed out than Group 1, and they may not actually reach that "good life" status, but some of them will. And that's enough hope to keep going.
2013-08-29 09:00:57 PM
1 votes:

marsoft: I call bullshiat.

I was born in a "poor" family.  Both of my parents were in prison until I was aged 8 (don't ask).  I grew up wearing my older brothers out grown clothes. I don't mean some of my clothes used to be his I mean all of them until I was 15, when I got a job and started buying my own.

I am talking eating jam sandwiches for dinner poor (if you got dinner).

Now?  I have a good job, a good degree, and am studying for a masters degree.

Being poor does not make you stupid.


No.... but you are not as smart as you could have been.
2013-08-29 08:38:51 PM
1 votes:

BMFPitt: p0nk: Eldar Shafir, a professor of psychology and public affairs at Princeton who worked on the research team, said it was not stress in general, but financial worries in particular, that led to a reduced ability to make sound decisions.

The nice thing about fake science is that when you put credentials behind it, it almost sounds convincing.

Chicken, egg, etc.


Nah, it's just up to you to know what the "credentials" mean.

Buyer beware.
2013-08-29 08:23:16 PM
1 votes:

marsoft: Sergeant Grumbles: marsoft: Ah, now this is where I can provide some evidence. When I was a younger and went on what in the UK was called "Employment Training", I ended up very quickly as a tutor for the long term unemployed. I specialised in IT skills and adult numeracy and literacy.

I can extend my sample set to several hundred people who were very intelligent but had little or no formal education, but had been written off as stupid poor people.

Many of my students went on to hold down good, well paying jobs, that usually required a degree.

I think I DO know what I am talking about, and have a decent set of numbers to back it up.

I don't think you understand what the article is saying or are giving too much credence to the headline.
It's not that the poor are truly stupid, or even incapable, it's that the mental demands of being poor are taxing their brainpower to such a degree that they have less ability to focus, think, and plan.

I am saying that is bullshiat. I am saying that being poor does not make you less able to focus, think or plan.

In fact I am saying the opposite can be true. It just depends on where the focus is.  If you are for instance so poor you cannot afford food, it basically forces you to focus, think, and plan on how to get enough money to eat.


"it basically forces you to focus, think, and plan"

Good job! That was a lot of effort you put into coming around to agree with the study's conclusion that poverty causes continual stress against education.
2013-08-29 07:59:15 PM
1 votes:

marsoft: austerity101: marsoft: Being poor does not make you stupid.

Of course, that's not what the study says.

Well to be specific the study says being poor drops your IQ by 13 points.  Or are we reading different studies?


FTFA:

Far from signaling that poor people are stupid, the results suggest those living on a tight budget have their effective brain power, or what the researchers called "mental bandwidth", dramatically limited by the stress of making ends meet.
2013-08-29 07:53:44 PM
1 votes:

marsoft: jst3p: marsoft: I call bullshiat.

I was born in a "poor" family.  Both of my parents were in prison until I was aged 8 (don't ask).  I grew up wearing my older brothers out grown clothes. I don't mean some of my clothes used to be his I mean all of them until I was 15, when I got a job and started buying my own.

I am talking eating jam sandwiches for dinner poor (if you got dinner).

Now?  I have a good job, a good degree, and am studying for a masters degree.

Being poor does not make you stupid.

It made you too stupid to understand that a single anecdote isn't a valid sample size from which meaningful conclusions about complex issues can be drawn.

Ah, now this is where I can provide some evidence.  When I was a younger and went on what in the UK was called "Employment Training", I ended up very quickly as a tutor for the long term unemployed. I specialised in IT skills and adult numeracy and literacy.

I can extend my sample set to several hundred people who were very intelligent but had little or no formal education, but had been written off as stupid poor people.

Many of my students went on to hold down good, well paying jobs, that usually required a degree.

I think I DO know what I am talking about, and have a decent set of numbers to back it up.



I grew up dirt-farking-poor, too, and I agree with the conclusions of this study.  So my anecdotal experiences cancel out your anecdotal experiences.

By the way, there *may* be a difference between being poor in England and being poor in America (e.g., differences in access to health care, public transportation to get to work).

/earned a PhD
//not even close to being poor now
2013-08-29 07:30:38 PM
1 votes:

jst3p: It made you too stupid to understand that a single anecdote isn't a valid sample size from which meaningful conclusions about complex issues can be drawn.


He wasn't attempting a statistical analysis, he was offering a counter-example. A single counter-example is sufficient to disprove a claim.

/ If you're ever certain enough of your position to accuse others of stupidity, you're probably wrong
2013-08-29 07:17:02 PM
1 votes:

dchurch0: "The reason that the rich were so rich, Vimes reasoned, was because they managed to spend less money.

Take boots, for example. He earned thirty-eight dollars a month plus allowances. A really good pair of leather boots cost fifty dollars. But an affordable pair of boots, which were sort of OK for a season or two and then leaked like hell when the cardboard gave out, cost about ten dollars. Those were the kind of boots Vimes always bought, and wore until the soles were so thin that he could tell where he was in Ankh-Morpork on a foggy night by the feel of the cobbles.

But the thing was that good boots lasted for years and years. A man who could afford fifty dollars had a pair of boots that'd still be keeping his feet dry in ten years' time, while the poor man who could only afford cheap boots would have spent a hundred dollars on boots in the same time and would still have wet feet.

This was the Captain Samuel Vimes 'Boots' theory of socioeconomic unfairness."

― Terry Pratchett, Men at Arms: The Play


I've heard that put a different way: "I'm to poor to shop at Wal-Mart and always end up having to replace things".
2013-08-29 07:13:11 PM
1 votes:

dchurch0: "The reason that the rich were so rich, Vimes reasoned, was because they managed to spend less money.

Take boots, for example. He earned thirty-eight dollars a month plus allowances. A really good pair of leather boots cost fifty dollars. But an affordable pair of boots, which were sort of OK for a season or two and then leaked like hell when the cardboard gave out, cost about ten dollars. Those were the kind of boots Vimes always bought, and wore until the soles were so thin that he could tell where he was in Ankh-Morpork on a foggy night by the feel of the cobbles.

But the thing was that good boots lasted for years and years. A man who could afford fifty dollars had a pair of boots that'd still be keeping his feet dry in ten years' time, while the poor man who could only afford cheap boots would have spent a hundred dollars on boots in the same time and would still have wet feet.

This was the Captain Samuel Vimes 'Boots' theory of socioeconomic unfairness."

― Terry Pratchett, Men at Arms: The Play



There's a lot of truth to this if you look at financial products.  If you have enough money in an account, your banking is far cheaper because the bank earns enough interest on the float.  Loans are extremely cheap.

If you are poor however, and only have small amounts at any time, no bank will give you an account and you have to rely on expensive check cashing or pay-per-debit systems just to buy goods.  Then for unexpected expenses you are forced to payday or title loans with exorbitant interest rates.
2013-08-29 07:08:45 PM
1 votes:

Southern100: Dion Fortune: The elephant in the room is that poor people LOVE to waste their money.  Everyone always talks about  "Healthy food is expensive, so poor people can't buy healthy food."  But I've NEVER seen a poor person not have enough money to spend on booze, cigarettes.  I remember reading a statistic somewhere that poor smokers spend a full 1/3rd of their income on cigarettes.  Poor people always have a smart phone, they can get their hair/nails done every week, they buy christmas presents for all their friends.

People today (at least those under 50-60) probably really have no concept of what being "Poor" means, and as bad as it is (today) at least it's nothing like what it used to be.  My parents used to tell me stories about what being poor used to mean. Being poor meant your mother made your clothes out of old potato sacks, and yes, you actually had to wear them to school. Being poor meant if you didn't chop enough wood for your family, you froze that winter.  Being poor meant if you didn't grow your own food (garden, chickens, etc.) your family didn't eat. Only the well-to-do had cows (which meant they got to eat beef).  I consider myself very lucky that I didn't grow up during that time.


If "other people suffered more" makes you feel better you are a literal monster.
2013-08-29 06:56:07 PM
1 votes:
There's a difference between someone who's poor by choice (who squanders their money on addictions, bad life decisions, and willfully stays that way) and someone who's poor due to circumstance (lack of work despite education or experience, high living expenses, difficult life circumstances).

The problem with society is we're too busy discriminating against the poor as a whole, while the very wealthy have successfully pointed the finger away from their direction, and continue to leech their way of life off of the hard word and ignorance of the majority.

The weak, stupid, and vulnerable in society are the rich who manipulate and misdirect our collective efforts. Next time you point your finger at a homeless man for collecting his welfare check, look into the pockets of the administrative heads who run the local charity, the businesses and organizations who are subsidized by government incentives that were created to control the situation (employment agencies, food bank initiatives, government established operations and divisions), and the growing number of corporation heads who refuse to sustain well-paid jobs in your country while they outsource work opportunities, effectively increasing their absurd wealth while impoverishing the rest of society. You'll find the majority of your money there.

The poor aren't a disease, they're the commodity the very rich use to deceive you into looking in the other direction while they profit off of you, an affirmation that the system is broken and our treatments of these issues are ineffective. The proper cure for poverty: The elimination of an upper ruling class and the fairer distribution of wealth and opportunity among all members of society.  Affordable and widely available education and healthcare. Higher wages, less outsourcing, and more work opportunities. Ethical business practice and the 100% transparency of government associated funds. The elimination of political organizations and government incentives whose main reason for existing is the misappropriation of public funds. Affordable property and living opportunities that are equally distributed as opposed to being exclusively maintained in one area of our communities where desperation and depression can fester. The reduction of crime labelled offenses and introduction of rehabilitative programs as opposed to prisons. I could go on and on, but you get the point...

/Or just keep on biatching while ignoring the collective picture. It's what the rich elite want and will continue to hope for, right up until your own ass and that of your family is on the street as well.
//Rant
2013-08-29 06:52:17 PM
1 votes:

marsoft: Now? I have a good job, a good degree, and am studying for a masters degree.

Being poor does not make you stupid.


Yeah, but just think of what your life would have been like if your brain hadn't have been crippled by poverty.
2013-08-29 06:52:15 PM
1 votes:

Dion Fortune: For instance there was that girl who got about 700k for falsely accusing Brian Banks of rape and then suing her school.  Just a few years later... she's a single mother on welfare.


And Donald Trump was born a millionaire and declared bankruptcy 4 times through various companies he owned. There are at least a dozen multi-millionaire celebrities I could name who are thousands or millions in the hole from taxes. CEOs, bank executives either under indictment or in prison for screwing over thousands of people and not being smart enough not to get caught. Then there are the PHDs who make $40,000/year. There is no coherent generalization between intellect and net worth.
2013-08-29 06:46:16 PM
1 votes:

J. Frank Parnell: The fact something like 85% of the worlds wealth is held by 5% of the population is just semantics, really.


I think you are a few years out of date on that.  Readjust your percentages in the bad direction.
2013-08-29 06:42:59 PM
1 votes:
Explains why Americans are so dumb.


Dion Fortune: The elephant in the room is that poor people LOVE to waste their money.  Everyone always talks about  "Healthy food is expensive, so poor people can't buy healthy food."  But I've NEVER seen a poor person not have enough money to spend on booze, cigarettes.  I remember reading a statistic somewhere that poor smokers spend a full 1/3rd of their income on cigarettes.  Poor people always have a smart phone, they can get their hair/nails done every week, they buy christmas presents for all their friends.


bullsheet.files.wordpress.com
2013-08-29 06:36:55 PM
1 votes:
The elephant in the room is that poor people LOVE to waste their money.  Everyone always talks about  "Healthy food is expensive, so poor people can't buy healthy food."  But I've NEVER seen a poor person not have enough money to spend on booze, cigarettes.  I remember reading a statistic somewhere that poor smokers spend a full 1/3rd of their income on cigarettes.  Poor people always have a smart phone, they can get their hair/nails done every week, they buy christmas presents for all their friends.

Then when they get into some money they spend it as quickly as possible on a brand new car or house, etc. that they obviously can't afford to maintain.  Gotta buy a brand new dining-room set to impress the cousins!  It's about not having impulse control or the ability to plan, not about IQ-type intelligence.

For instance there was that girl who got about 700k for falsely accusing Brian Banks of rape and then suing her school.  Just a few years later... she's a single mother on welfare.  Couldn't spend any of that money on birth control, or a college education, or starting a business, but that is not unusual at all.  So many poor people like to shat out babies all over the place and then complain about being poor.  But nevermind that, we always have to paint poor people as helpless victims.
2013-08-29 06:35:07 PM
1 votes:

marsoft: Please provide actual evidence to back up your position rather than one study which does not provide (from the article anyway) a set of numbers to substantiate it.


You first. You're the one disagreeing with the article.

Though I'm tempted just to use you as evidence, since if you're telling the truth about being poor, it kicked the shiat out of your brain.
2013-08-29 06:33:00 PM
1 votes:

TomD9938: I did about a decade as an inner city landlord and pretty much all of my tenants were poor (except for the one stripper).

Some of them were "slow", but most of them were as smart as the average person you'd meet.

What did seperate them from stable "not poor" people was their love of partying (drinking and smoking weed / crack / meth) every day.

Making ends meet is not priority one for such people.

This study sounds like just another p.c. acedemic crusade where the conclusion was reached before the study began.


So you're saying poor people engage in activities that reduce stress?
2013-08-29 06:31:28 PM
1 votes:

Mugato: I think people in general and this study in particular over generalizes what causes people to be poor and over estimates the intelligence of rich people.

/not poor
//not rich
///genius IQ
////IQ doesn't mean shiat


True.  I think it is a combination of both though.  Your parents are not all that brilliant.  One of them went to college back when it wasn't ridiculously expensive and has a decent job.  They have you.  You are pretty average also.  You do okay in school but your parents really don't push you hard intellectually because they are pretty average.  You get a HS diploma and are unable to get any grants or scholarships.  A little research happens and you realize college is ridiculously expensive and decide not to go.  You have a kid.  You are not destitute but you are not as well off as your parents were at your age.  Your kid is average.........
2013-08-29 06:29:46 PM
1 votes:

marsoft: In fact I am saying the opposite can be true. It just depends on where the focus is.  If you are for instance so poor you cannot afford food, it basically forces you to focus, think, and plan on how to get enough money to eat.


Also, if you read the article, it says "'The poor are often highly effective at focusing on and dealing with pressing problems,' [Shafir] said. 'But they don't have leftover bandwidth to devote to other tasks.  So, if you live in poverty, you're more error prone and errors cost you more dearly -- it's hard to find a way out.'"
2013-08-29 06:23:45 PM
1 votes:

Super Chronic: Love the URL.


Thanks!

/subby
2013-08-29 06:20:00 PM
1 votes:
I did about a decade as an inner city landlord and pretty much all of my tenants were poor (except for the one stripper).

Some of them were "slow", but most of them were as smart as the average person you'd meet.

What did seperate them from stable "not poor" people was their love of partying (drinking and smoking weed / crack / meth) every day.

Making ends meet is not priority one for such people.

This study sounds like just another p.c. acedemic crusade where the conclusion was reached before the study began.
2013-08-29 06:17:20 PM
1 votes:
You can't afford the good channels on your TV service,
therefore you get Jerry Springer and Judge Judy and remain stupid.
2013-08-29 06:15:46 PM
1 votes:

Mark Ratner: Yeah, well the world needs ditch diggers, too.


Not really
2013-08-29 06:14:07 PM
1 votes:
If you're so rich, why aren't you smart?
2013-08-29 06:07:19 PM
1 votes:

jst3p: marsoft: I call bullshiat.

I was born in a "poor" family.  Both of my parents were in prison until I was aged 8 (don't ask).  I grew up wearing my older brothers out grown clothes. I don't mean some of my clothes used to be his I mean all of them until I was 15, when I got a job and started buying my own.

I am talking eating jam sandwiches for dinner poor (if you got dinner).

Now?  I have a good job, a good degree, and am studying for a masters degree.

Being poor does not make you stupid.

It made you too stupid to understand that a single anecdote isn't a valid sample size from which meaningful conclusions about complex issues can be drawn.


Ah, now this is where I can provide some evidence.  When I was a younger and went on what in the UK was called "Employment Training", I ended up very quickly as a tutor for the long term unemployed. I specialised in IT skills and adult numeracy and literacy.

I can extend my sample set to several hundred people who were very intelligent but had little or no formal education, but had been written off as stupid poor people.

Many of my students went on to hold down good, well paying jobs, that usually required a degree.

I think I DO know what I am talking about, and have a decent set of numbers to back it up.
2013-08-29 06:05:50 PM
1 votes:

jst3p: marsoft: I call bullshiat.

I was born in a "poor" family.  Both of my parents were in prison until I was aged 8 (don't ask).  I grew up wearing my older brothers out grown clothes. I don't mean some of my clothes used to be his I mean all of them until I was 15, when I got a job and started buying my own.

I am talking eating jam sandwiches for dinner poor (if you got dinner).

Now?  I have a good job, a good degree, and am studying for a masters degree.

Being poor does not make you stupid.

It made you too stupid to understand that a single anecdote isn't a valid sample size from which meaningful conclusions about complex issues can be drawn.


buuuuurn.
2013-08-29 06:00:12 PM
1 votes:
Access to education has more to do with a person's intellect than anything else.
2013-08-29 05:58:52 PM
1 votes:

Mager: How does this work? Mitt Romney is a dumbass.


What does that make Al Gore?
076dd0a50e0c1255009e-bd4b8aabaca29897bc751dfaf75b290c.r40.cf1.rackcdn.com


Double Dumbass.
2013-08-29 05:58:09 PM
1 votes:
www.laverdadyotrasmentiras.com
2013-08-29 05:56:23 PM
1 votes:
my rebuttal

lh3.googleusercontent.com
2013-08-29 05:53:21 PM
1 votes:

austerity101: marsoft: I call bullshiat.

I was born in a "poor" family.  Both of my parents were in prison until I was aged 8 (don't ask).  I grew up wearing my older brothers out grown clothes. I don't mean some of my clothes used to be his I mean all of them until I was 15, when I got a job and started buying my own.

I am talking eating jam sandwiches for dinner poor (if you got dinner).

Now?  I have a good job, a good degree, and am studying for a masters degree.

Being poor does not make you stupid.

Of course, that's not what the study says.


Well to be specific the study says being poor drops your IQ by 13 points.  Or are we reading different studies?
2013-08-29 05:53:13 PM
1 votes:
And the rich who have never worked are stupid, too. It's about doing things that give the brain a workout.

If you sit on your ass all day long, you will be stupid. Poor, rich, whatever.

Free money doesn't improve people's lot in life.  Free money just keeps people in stasis.  Like a house cat who has never lived outdoors has, for all practical purposes, mind of a kitten. A rich kid who never works, a poor person who never works and lives on handouts/welfare will never have a fully matured brain.
2013-08-29 05:51:10 PM
1 votes:
Hey, I'm depraved on account I'm deprived.
A7
2013-08-29 05:50:34 PM
1 votes:
Get outta the gene pool!

And don't pee on your way out.
2013-08-29 05:48:47 PM
1 votes:
Can't I just be poor?

/yay my Boobies on this silly thing
//only took me 11 years
///i'm been waiting to use slashies
2013-08-29 05:47:24 PM
1 votes:
Love the URL.
 
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