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(Reuters)   You aren't poor because you are stupid. You are stupid because you are poor   (reuters.com) divider line 160
    More: Unlikely, goal difference, University of Warwick, poverty  
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6965 clicks; posted to Main » on 29 Aug 2013 at 5:42 PM (47 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-08-29 07:37:06 PM

the_chief: marsoft: the_chief: marsoft:

Now?  I have a good job, a good degree, and am studying for a masters degree.

Being poor does not make you stupid.

You would have finished your PhD by now if you weren't so poor.

Naaa. I have PhDs working for me now. Not worth the effort.

So you're poor and lazy? It's just a vicious cycle of poverty for you.


You got me there :)
 
2013-08-29 07:38:48 PM
I grew up in a trailer house, and my mom has been disabled since I was 8. She was a nurse and got hurt on the job. An extremely obese man fell on her and screwed up her back to the point that she can no longer walk. My mom's only 5' 2" tall, and weighs about 100 lbs. My father was a mechanic and didn't make much money. All we had was his meager income to support a family of four, and pay for my mom's medical bills.

I remember one year all I got was an alarm clock and a robe for Christmas, and I could tell that my parents struggled just to make that happen.

I got tired of not having enough money to go skating with my friends, or go to the arcade with my friends. Do you know what it's like to watch all of your friends having a blast, but only having 50 cents at an arcade with over 50 games, and having to choose the ONE game you want to play ONCE... knowing it will be a month before you can do it again?

I hated it, so I started mowing lawns in the summer, cleaning gutters/raking leaves in the fall, scooping snow in the winter, and got a paper route when I was 11. I'd make about $10 an odd job ($20 if it was a large lawn or driveway). I got to know all of the people in our trailer park, especially the older folks who couldn't do those jobs themselves. I would basically do all their yard-work for them year round. Mow once a week, gutters twice a year, scoop the driveway when it snowed, and occasionally raking leaves (but I really hated that job). I had about 10 lots that I did that for on a regular basis, and it paid me pretty good.

I got my work permit when I was 14 so I could get a job as a dishwasher at a truck stop working 20 hours a week after school, and the day I turned 16, I started working 40 hours a week.

I bought my first car when I was 14 to learn to drive on (learners permit), then sold it and bought a '77 Monte Carlo when I was 16. I sold the datsun wagon I had previously bought and got new tires for the Monte Carlo. I miss that car...

I worked full time in restaurants (cook, server, busboy, whatever) thru high school, and put myself thru college a year after I graduated.

I'm 33 now and have an awesome career IT. I am nowhere near rich, but I can honestly say I don't really worry about money anymore.

Hopefully I will never have to live like I did when I was a child again. I don't think this article applies to me. The one thing I cherished most growing up was my library card. I loved to read and learn things, and the fact that it never cost my anything was farking fantastic.

/I'm probably just weird.
//No bootstraps here. I'm the libbiest lib that ever libbed.
///Three slashies!
 
2013-08-29 07:47:35 PM

marsoft: I call bullshiat.

I was born in a "poor" family.  Both of my parents were in prison until I was aged 8 (don't ask).  I grew up wearing my older brothers out grown clothes. I don't mean some of my clothes used to be his I mean all of them until I was 15, when I got a job and started buying my own.

I am talking eating jam sandwiches for dinner poor (if you got dinner).

Now?  I have a good job, a good degree, and am studying for a masters degree.

Being poor does not make you stupid.


Masters in what? I assume its not in anything that required learning the concept of a Gaussian distribution.
 
2013-08-29 07:51:55 PM

HindiDiscoMonster: Smeggy Smurf: HindiDiscoMonster: Smeggy Smurf: No, you're poor because you're lazy.  You're stupid because you are too lazy to overcome your stupidity

let's not let science get in the way of a good derp... amirite?

I wint tu publick skool.  No sighency stuf wuz teecht tu us

I'm sorry, but could you translate that into english please?


I wint to publick skool.  No trans late ur trans un tym wuz teecht tu us
 
2013-08-29 07:53:44 PM

marsoft: jst3p: marsoft: I call bullshiat.

I was born in a "poor" family.  Both of my parents were in prison until I was aged 8 (don't ask).  I grew up wearing my older brothers out grown clothes. I don't mean some of my clothes used to be his I mean all of them until I was 15, when I got a job and started buying my own.

I am talking eating jam sandwiches for dinner poor (if you got dinner).

Now?  I have a good job, a good degree, and am studying for a masters degree.

Being poor does not make you stupid.

It made you too stupid to understand that a single anecdote isn't a valid sample size from which meaningful conclusions about complex issues can be drawn.

Ah, now this is where I can provide some evidence.  When I was a younger and went on what in the UK was called "Employment Training", I ended up very quickly as a tutor for the long term unemployed. I specialised in IT skills and adult numeracy and literacy.

I can extend my sample set to several hundred people who were very intelligent but had little or no formal education, but had been written off as stupid poor people.

Many of my students went on to hold down good, well paying jobs, that usually required a degree.

I think I DO know what I am talking about, and have a decent set of numbers to back it up.



I grew up dirt-farking-poor, too, and I agree with the conclusions of this study.  So my anecdotal experiences cancel out your anecdotal experiences.

By the way, there *may* be a difference between being poor in England and being poor in America (e.g., differences in access to health care, public transportation to get to work).

/earned a PhD
//not even close to being poor now
 
2013-08-29 07:57:24 PM
 After working customer service for DirecTv I realized that there is very little correlation between wealth and intelligence, in fact if there is a correlation it may be in the other direction.
"wait you can afford 5 hddvr receivers and with large screen hd flat screens and you're freaking out at me because you can't figure out how to turn them on?"
 
2013-08-29 07:59:15 PM

marsoft: austerity101: marsoft: Being poor does not make you stupid.

Of course, that's not what the study says.

Well to be specific the study says being poor drops your IQ by 13 points.  Or are we reading different studies?


FTFA:

Far from signaling that poor people are stupid, the results suggest those living on a tight budget have their effective brain power, or what the researchers called "mental bandwidth", dramatically limited by the stress of making ends meet.
 
2013-08-29 08:02:12 PM

marsoft: Ambitwistor: marsoft: When has dozens of people ever been a good sample for a scientific study?

When the effect size is large enough that you don't need a larger sample to detect significant differences.

Incorrect, as there is always a chance that the effect is only present in your sample.  The larger and more diverse the sample the less this chance is.


You know how I know you don't understand anything about statistics?

Yes, there is always a chance that the effect is only present in your sample.   That's what "statistical significance" means:  that chance is below some threshold (typically 5%).  Yes, larger sample sizes give better statistics.  No, that doesn't mean that "dozens" of samples can't achieve statistical significance.  As I said, significance is a function of both effect size and sample size.  You can detect a difference in populations either if the effect is large, or you have a lot of samples, or both.
 
2013-08-29 08:03:48 PM

marsoft: I call bullshiat.

I was born in a "poor" family.  Both of my parents were in prison until I was aged 8 (don't ask).  I grew up wearing my older brothers out grown clothes. I don't mean some of my clothes used to be his I mean all of them until I was 15, when I got a job and started buying my own.

I am talking eating jam sandwiches for dinner poor (if you got dinner).

Now?  I have a good job, a good degree, and am studying for a masters degree.

Being poor does not make you stupid.


Yep, my foster daughter came from a household that routinely had no electricity, running water and, lots of times, no food. Yet, she's an honor student in AP classes and taking college classes, as well.

Now, if I could just get her to quit being such a high school drama queen.
 
2013-08-29 08:07:17 PM

marsoft: I call bullshiat.

I was born in a "poor" family.  Both of my parents were in prison until I was aged 8 (don't ask).  I grew up wearing my older brothers out grown clothes. I don't mean some of my clothes used to be his I mean all of them until I was 15, when I got a job and started buying my own.

I am talking eating jam sandwiches for dinner poor (if you got dinner).

Now?  I have a good job, a good degree, and am studying for a masters degree.

Being poor does not make you stupid.


The thing is, they're not talking about you, you were the child of people with the 'decision fatigue' to use a term from the Romney article linked by someone else. You didn't have to suffer the major stressors that cause the issue at hand. I'm sure you had some referred stress from being poor that you managed to overcome, but you weren't running the family finances and having to make the call that there were only jam sandwiches for your children's dinner and owning the stress and shame that comes with that.

Your parents obviously managed to do a good thing by raising you to escape the poverty, but did they escape it themselves?
 
2013-08-29 08:10:49 PM

Dusk-You-n-Me: "The thing about not having much money is you have to take much more responsibility for your life. You can't pay people to watch your kids or clean your house or fix your meals. You can't necessarily afford a car or a washing machine or a home in a good school district. That's what money buys you: goods and services that make your life easier.
The working poor haven't abdicated responsibility for their lives. They're drowning in it." Link


I like that. I can work on my computer, I don't eat out, I exercise at home instead of at a gym. I cook, clean, sew my clothes, paint my house, do repairs and maintenance to it, change the oil in my car, fix flat tires and do minor repairs. You know why I"m so damn talented? I'm farking poor.
 
2013-08-29 08:11:36 PM
Thread is full of amateur psychologists, science deniers, and trolls.
 
2013-08-29 08:23:16 PM

marsoft: Sergeant Grumbles: marsoft: Ah, now this is where I can provide some evidence. When I was a younger and went on what in the UK was called "Employment Training", I ended up very quickly as a tutor for the long term unemployed. I specialised in IT skills and adult numeracy and literacy.

I can extend my sample set to several hundred people who were very intelligent but had little or no formal education, but had been written off as stupid poor people.

Many of my students went on to hold down good, well paying jobs, that usually required a degree.

I think I DO know what I am talking about, and have a decent set of numbers to back it up.

I don't think you understand what the article is saying or are giving too much credence to the headline.
It's not that the poor are truly stupid, or even incapable, it's that the mental demands of being poor are taxing their brainpower to such a degree that they have less ability to focus, think, and plan.

I am saying that is bullshiat. I am saying that being poor does not make you less able to focus, think or plan.

In fact I am saying the opposite can be true. It just depends on where the focus is.  If you are for instance so poor you cannot afford food, it basically forces you to focus, think, and plan on how to get enough money to eat.


"it basically forces you to focus, think, and plan"

Good job! That was a lot of effort you put into coming around to agree with the study's conclusion that poverty causes continual stress against education.
 
2013-08-29 08:33:12 PM

p0nk: Eldar Shafir, a professor of psychology and public affairs at Princeton who worked on the research team, said it was not stress in general, but financial worries in particular, that led to a reduced ability to make sound decisions.

The nice thing about fake science is that when you put credentials behind it, it almost sounds convincing.


Chicken, egg, etc.
 
2013-08-29 08:37:25 PM

marsoft: I call bullshiat.

I was born in a "poor" family.  Both of my parents were in prison until I was aged 8 (don't ask).  I grew up wearing my older brothers out grown clothes. I don't mean some of my clothes used to be his I mean all of them until I was 15, when I got a job and started buying my own.

I am talking eating jam sandwiches for dinner poor (if you got dinner).

Now?  I have a good job, a good degree, and am studying for a masters degree.

Being poor does not make you stupid.




Infants can eat jam sammiches?
 
2013-08-29 08:38:51 PM

BMFPitt: p0nk: Eldar Shafir, a professor of psychology and public affairs at Princeton who worked on the research team, said it was not stress in general, but financial worries in particular, that led to a reduced ability to make sound decisions.

The nice thing about fake science is that when you put credentials behind it, it almost sounds convincing.

Chicken, egg, etc.


Nah, it's just up to you to know what the "credentials" mean.

Buyer beware.
 
2013-08-29 08:50:22 PM
i.imgur.com
 
2013-08-29 08:52:46 PM

That guy on the bike: Can't I just be poor?

/yay my Boobies on this silly thing
//only took me 11 years
///i'm been waiting to use slashies


You got filterpwned on your 1st comment after lurking for 11 years?

www.personal.psu.edu
 
2013-08-29 09:00:57 PM

marsoft: I call bullshiat.

I was born in a "poor" family.  Both of my parents were in prison until I was aged 8 (don't ask).  I grew up wearing my older brothers out grown clothes. I don't mean some of my clothes used to be his I mean all of them until I was 15, when I got a job and started buying my own.

I am talking eating jam sandwiches for dinner poor (if you got dinner).

Now?  I have a good job, a good degree, and am studying for a masters degree.

Being poor does not make you stupid.


No.... but you are not as smart as you could have been.
 
2013-08-29 09:01:29 PM
This is wonderful.   I have to say, I've never seen such a great URL: http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/29/us-poverty-brain-idUSBRE97S 1 0W20130829?noreallyyoureamoron
 
2013-08-29 09:06:05 PM

bearded clamorer: That guy on the bike: Can't I just be poor?

/yay my Boobies on this silly thing
//only took me 11 years
///i'm been waiting to use slashies

You got filterpwned on your 1st comment after lurking for 11 years?

[www.personal.psu.edu image 400x233]




lulz
 
2013-08-29 09:22:45 PM

TomD9938: I did about a decade as an inner city landlord and pretty much all of my tenants were poor (except for the one stripper).

Some of them were "slow", but most of them were as smart as the average person you'd meet.

What did seperate them from stable "not poor" people was their love of partying (drinking and smoking weed / crack / meth) every day.

Making ends meet is not priority one for such people.

This study sounds like just another p.c. acedemic crusade where the conclusion was reached before the study began.


Meanwhile I did a two year volunteer stint in Africa where virtually none of my neighbors had a sixth grade education and the vast majority could neither read nor write. Yet virtually all spoke three languages, built their own house, and raised their own food.

/some liked to party, done didn't.

// I find your anecdote in general about equal to Trading Places in its sociological validity.
 
2013-08-29 09:38:03 PM

JohnBigBootay: // I find your anecdote in general about equal to Trading Places in its sociological validity.


Eight units over ten years with an average stay of a year, so about 70 to 80 families.

Pretty decent sized sample.

/ there was always money for beer and smokes
 
2013-08-29 09:45:32 PM
TomD9938:
/ there was always money for beer and smokes

Beer and smokes are cheap. TVs, iPhones and Xboxes are cheap. Refrigerators are cheap.  Getting rid of these things won't get people out of poverty because it takes much more to get out of poverty. It does, however, make poverty pass more amicably.
 
2013-08-29 09:51:18 PM
"I'm not sure how I'm going to feed my kids this week, and my power just got disconnected, and my spouse just had a heart attack and we have no insurance... But, sure! I'll just drop all those silly cares and put every bit of my brain matter into taking your little pretend quiz for your school project, College Boy."

Two types of poor people:
1) Those who believe they are powerless, and that their lives will never improve, no matter what they do. These are the binge spenders, non-savers, frivolous types who get $20 manicures and buy $50 in lottery tickets every month. Chances are, their parents told them "Live for today, 'cause it won't get no better than this."

2) Those who seek power to improve their lives, and actively strive to find opportunities to do so in order to rebel against the poverty they were born into. They'll be way more stressed out than Group 1, and they may not actually reach that "good life" status, but some of them will. And that's enough hope to keep going.
 
2013-08-29 09:56:33 PM

WordyGrrl: Two types of poor people:
1) Those who believe they are powerless, and that their lives will never improve, no matter what they do. These are the binge spenders, non-savers, frivolous types who get $20 manicures and buy $50 in lottery tickets every month. Chances are, their parents told them "Live for today, 'cause it won't get no better than this."

2) Those who seek power to improve their lives, and actively strive to find opportunities to do so in order to rebel against the poverty they were born into. They'll be way more stressed out than Group 1, and they may not actually reach that "good life" status, but some of them will. And that's enough hope to keep going.


There are myriad types of idiots, but at least one thinks only in black and white.
 
2013-08-29 10:05:42 PM

WordyGrrl: "I'm not sure how I'm going to feed my kids this week, and my power just got disconnected, and my spouse just had a heart attack and we have no insurance... But, sure! I'll just drop all those silly cares and put every bit of my brain matter into taking your little pretend quiz for your school project, College Boy."

Two types of poor people:
1) Those who believe they are powerless, and that their lives will never improve, no matter what they do. These are the binge spenders, non-savers, frivolous types who get $20 manicures and buy $50 in lottery tickets every month. Chances are, their parents told them "Live for today, 'cause it won't get no better than this."

2) Those who seek power to improve their lives, and actively strive to find opportunities to do so in order to rebel against the poverty they were born into. They'll be way more stressed out than Group 1, and they may not actually reach that "good life" status, but some of them will. And that's enough hope to keep going.




You forgot those without rhythm.
 
2013-08-29 10:06:50 PM

Mugato: ////IQ doesn't mean shiat


It can mean you're not a complete moran, it seems.
 
2013-08-29 10:17:51 PM
So the financial stress that the rest of us middle- and upper-middle class working joes endure doesn't cause us the same issue? I don't even understand that premise....poor people have a govt safety net stretched out below them to save them from their bad mistakes or "stress-induced" shiatty life choices. What about us? We make a bad decision or lose a job and the stress just rolls off us? Oh please, dumb people make dumb choices and don't learn from them. This is not related to IQ.
 
2013-08-29 10:20:23 PM

Sergeant Grumbles: TomD9938:
/ there was always money for beer and smokes

Beer and smokes are cheap. TVs, iPhones and Xboxes are cheap. Refrigerators are cheap.  Getting rid of these things won't get people out of poverty because it takes much more to get out of poverty. It does, however, make poverty pass more amicably.



I provided every refrigerator for my units.  If one failed, I replaced it at no charge.

My point was that while I had to wait beyond the due date to get paid, there was always $20.00 for bullshiat.

Then they'd get all indignant when id file a u.d. against them.
 
2013-08-29 10:28:15 PM
Awesome, another scientific study debunked by Farkers' anecdotes.  I don't understand why the government doesn't just fund Fark directly to do research.
 
2013-08-29 10:41:54 PM

TomD9938: My point was that while I had to wait beyond the due date to get paid, there was always $20.00 for bullshiat.


Unless the rent was $20.00, you haven't exactly refuted my point. Saving that $20 may not make a difference in whether or not the rent gets paid.

It's just that your anecdote sounds like every other tired argument that the poor are just one cancelled cable subscription away from clawing themselves out of poverty when the money saved isn't enough to do anything with. The cost of meaningful things, the cost of getting out of poverty, is much greater than the $20 for bullshiat.
 
2013-08-29 10:53:12 PM
no, you're poor because you're smart and hence went to college.
 
2013-08-29 10:53:13 PM

Deedeemarz: I don't even understand that premise...


You don't need to be poor to be stupid.

Having a job with sufficient income to cover necessities and then some frees you up from considerable worry. Knowing you actually have some scratch to take care of emergencies, even more. Yes, you may be concerned with these things on some level, but they do not often occupy your mind.

Having a job with barely sufficient income?
What's that sound coming from my engine? Should I get it looked at? It's wasted money if nothing is wrong, but the repair bill could be huge unless I catch a problem in time. If I take it to a mechanic, I'll be short some money this paycheck. I'll have to make it up somewhere, but where? I suppose I can cut some food out... maybe turn the AC up to 78 to try and squeeze a little more out of the electric bill, but it's farking 101 degrees down here in summetime.
My tooth has been hurting. I don't know if I need to go to a dentist. I have insurance, but it's not that good. Going to be a copay. If I get my car checked I can't afford the copay at all. And I have to get a day off of work... Which is more important, my tooth or my car? If I don't have my car, I can't get to work, but a tooth is like.... permanent.
God, these glasses are hurting my eyes. I know I need a new prescription. I'd have to get another day off work to go to the eye doctor. How much even is that...? I don't have vision insurance. Glasses are insane. I guess I can just wear these some more... better than being nearsighted as all hell.
And on, and on, and on..... on top of your job and personal drama.
 
2013-08-29 11:08:48 PM

Sergeant Grumbles: TomD9938: My point was that while I had to wait beyond the due date to get paid, there was always $20.00 for bullshiat.

Unless the rent was $20.00, you haven't exactly refuted my point. Saving that $20 may not make a difference in whether or not the rent gets paid.

It's just that your anecdote sounds like every other tired argument that the poor are just one cancelled cable subscription away from clawing themselves out of poverty when the money saved isn't enough to do anything with. The cost of meaningful things, the cost of getting out of poverty, is much greater than the $20 for bullshiat.



The argument is tired because it's true.   Sorry

That's $20.00 / day, BTW.  The rent might have been that much (this was mid 90s to mid 2000s).  If a case of beer and two packs of smokes is worth losing the roof over your kids head, because boo hoo, twenty dollars isnt a thousand, so why should I try?, then all is lost for that family anyway, so sign up for section 8 and wait and pray for that ship to come in.

Not every poor family that I worked with was disfunctional either.  The failures followed definate patterns though, of wastefull spending, the worst of which was feeding their kids fast food every day.

These  (the disfunctional ones) were households lead by children, in effect.
 
2013-08-29 11:20:13 PM

Dion Fortune: The elephant in the room is that poor people LOVE to waste their money.  Everyone always talks about  "Healthy food is expensive, so poor people can't buy healthy food."  But I've NEVER seen a poor person not have enough money to spend on booze, cigarettes.  I remember reading a statistic somewhere that poor smokers spend a full 1/3rd of their income on cigarettes.


Years ago I was involved in a sketchy sales racket and encountered folks daily in similar rackets.  I remember talking to this older black guy in NYC who was selling jewelry on the street and asked him how much he made...it was some ridiculous amount...like several thousand per week.  But he looked like a bum and I said to him something along the lines of  'that is epic money, why are you such a mess'. His answer was basically that he spent almost every cent on drugs.  He absolutely did not seem like he loved it; he came across as good natured, but honest and sad about what he'd become.
 
2013-08-29 11:25:09 PM

TomD9938: The argument is tired because it's true.


If it were true, it wouldn't be an argument. Sorry.
 
2013-08-29 11:30:42 PM

Sergeant Grumbles: WordyGrrl: Two types of poor people:
1) Those who believe they are powerless, and that their lives will never improve, no matter what they do. These are the binge spenders, non-savers, frivolous types who get $20 manicures and buy $50 in lottery tickets every month. Chances are, their parents told them "Live for today, 'cause it won't get no better than this."

2) Those who seek power to improve their lives, and actively strive to find opportunities to do so in order to rebel against the poverty they were born into. They'll be way more stressed out than Group 1, and they may not actually reach that "good life" status, but some of them will. And that's enough hope to keep going.

There are myriad types of idiots, but at least one thinks only in black and white.

Exactly, my dear. Life is never, ever, black and white. It's all gray areas. The sooner you accept that, the sooner you realize that life is a bit more complicated than you thought and requires you to think.
 
2013-08-29 11:31:00 PM

uber humper: And the rich who have never worked are stupid, too. It's about doing things that give the brain a workout.

If you sit on your ass all day long, you will be stupid. Poor, rich, whatever.

Free money doesn't improve people's lot in life.  Free money just keeps people in stasis.  Like a house cat who has never lived outdoors has, for all practical purposes, mind of a kitten. A rich kid who never works, a poor person who never works and lives on handouts/welfare will never have a fully matured brain.


All this.  correlation =\= causation

The exception to your post though, people can be educated to the point where they don't take what they have for granted.  It does have to be learned at some point, but it is possible, ruling out your absolute at the end.

On top of the obvious exception, people who choose to be lazier and stress free, to live with less because it is easier.  A matter of personal priorities, which varies widely in each individual, can influence both wealth and intelligence, instead of each influencing the other.  In fact, aside from places where education is impossible or difficult to attain, it's the norm.  Its also not always a conscious choice, and therefore irrelevant to intelligence.

You could tie self-reflection(and how intelligently it's done) with the ability to succeed.(IE setting realistic goals).

Any way you look at the topic though, it's over simplification.  Not everyone has the same potential. The "If they work hard enough, they can be filthy rich." premise is false.  You need the drive(mindset is not a part of intelligence)  and the ability.

Same thing with fat people or drug addicts.  You need a specific education(plus the intelligence to absorb it) AND psychological drive to be successful in achieving any goal.  Many people are genetically predisposed to not be able to reach X goal, as in how their brain works. (IE not the fat because of gene's argument, though that does hold some water.....it just not the only contributing factor)

/lengthy rambling concept
//tl;dr  Intelligence =\= psychological ability
 
2013-08-29 11:37:41 PM

StoPPeRmobile: WordyGrrl: "I'm not sure how I'm going to feed my kids this week, and my power just got disconnected, and my spouse just had a heart attack and we have no insurance... But, sure! I'll just drop all those silly cares and put every bit of my brain matter into taking your little pretend quiz for your school project, College Boy."

Two types of poor people:
1) Those who believe they are powerless, and that their lives will never improve, no matter what they do. These are the binge spenders, non-savers, frivolous types who get $20 manicures and buy $50 in lottery tickets every month. Chances are, their parents told them "Live for today, 'cause it won't get no better than this."

2) Those who seek power to improve their lives, and actively strive to find opportunities to do so in order to rebel against the poverty they were born into. They'll be way more stressed out than Group 1, and they may not actually reach that "good life" status, but some of them will. And that's enough hope to keep going.

You forgot those without rhythm.

That would be a sub-class of Group 2: chicks who can spin around a pole. If they are genuinely Class 2, they will use that cash to earn a degree that gets them a job waaaay the hell away from where they danced. If they're Class 1, they'll dance until they marry the customer who got them preggers, and live off whatever benefits they get.
 
2013-08-29 11:52:53 PM
I suppose I shouldn't be surprised but why does it seem like half the people in this thread read the headline but not the relatively short article?

As others have pointed out this article has nothing to do with any anecdote you have about smart or stupid rich or poor people. The article describes a relatively simple study which showed that when a person was made to think about a financial worry they did not perform as well in cognitive tests. Being poor doesn't "make you stupid" but it distracts you and exhausts you. Some people of course will do better or worse under the stress and some people will naturally start out with more or less brain power to use so there will be a variety of responses to poverty. What the study shows is just one potential aspect affecting people with financial issues. Obviously education level, personality traits, access to support and a million other things will come into play for a given individual.
 
2013-08-30 12:00:50 AM

Sergeant Grumbles: TomD9938: The argument is tired because it's true.

If it were true, it wouldn't be an argument. Sorry.


Call it a cliche, then.
 
2013-08-30 12:00:59 AM
Eh, they could've saved themselves some time and just asked me... totally been there.  I could drop 13 IQ points and MENSA would still take me; I have two jobs in space science and a third in writing and editing, but between not-so-high pay and the latter two jobs being part-time, it's a real struggle to pay off debt and feed my family.  My beloved wife doesn't quite understand why someone with my brains, skills, experience and work ethic isn't capable of prioritizing all the things she wants prioritized - I just tell her that I'm focusing on survival right now, and those things are going to have to wait.
 
2013-08-30 12:02:17 AM

tiamet4: I suppose I shouldn't be surprised but why does it seem like half the people in this thread read the headline but not the relatively short article?

As others have pointed out this article has nothing to do with any anecdote you have about smart or stupid rich or poor people. The article describes a relatively simple study which showed that when a person was made to think about a financial worry they did not perform as well in cognitive tests. Being poor doesn't "make you stupid" but it distracts you and exhausts you. Some people of course will do better or worse under the stress and some people will naturally start out with more or less brain power to use so there will be a variety of responses to poverty. What the study shows is just one potential aspect affecting people with financial issues. Obviously education level, personality traits, access to support and a million other things will come into play for a given individual.


It doesn't surprise you because you're used to normal conversation that ebbs and flows around headlines as well as article content, and people taking discussion cue's of others posts without regard to the article.

/the article/headline is a spur, not the limit, of the thread
 
2013-08-30 12:23:23 AM

omeganuepsilon: uber humper: And the rich who have never worked are stupid, too. It's about doing things that give the brain a workout.

If you sit on your ass all day long, you will be stupid. Poor, rich, whatever.

Free money doesn't improve people's lot in life.  Free money just keeps people in stasis.  Like a house cat who has never lived outdoors has, for all practical purposes, mind of a kitten. A rich kid who never works, a poor person who never works and lives on handouts/welfare will never have a fully matured brain.

All this.  correlation =\= causation

The exception to your post though, people can be educated to the point where they don't take what they have for granted.  It does have to be learned at some point, but it is possible, ruling out your absolute at the end.

On top of the obvious exception, people who choose to be lazier and stress free, to live with less because it is easier.  A matter of personal priorities, which varies widely in each individual, can influence both wealth and intelligence, instead of each influencing the other.  In fact, aside from places where education is impossible or difficult to attain, it's the norm.  Its also not always a conscious choice, and therefore irrelevant to intelligence.

You could tie self-reflection(and how intelligently it's done) with the ability to succeed.(IE setting realistic goals).

Any way you look at the topic though, it's over simplification.  Not everyone has the same potential. The "If they work hard enough, they can be filthy rich." premise is false.  You need the drive(mindset is not a part of intelligence)  and the ability.

Same thing with fat people or drug addicts.  You need a specific education(plus the intelligence to absorb it) AND psychological drive to be successful in achieving any goal.  Many people are genetically predisposed to not be able to reach X goal, as in how their brain works. (IE not the fat because of gene's argument, though that does hold some water.....it just not the only contribu ...


tl;dr -- that why god invented absolutes

/sometimes drives are physiological, that's when things really get done
 
2013-08-30 01:19:56 AM

Smeggy Smurf: No, you're poor because you're lazy.  You're stupid because you are too lazy to overcome your stupidity


Clumsy generalizations don't say much for your intellect either.
 
2013-08-30 01:44:46 AM

Agent Smiths Laugh: Smeggy Smurf: No, you're poor because you're lazy.  You're stupid because you are too lazy to overcome your stupidity

Clumsy generalizations don't say much for your intellect either.


You're boring because you lack a sense of humor.
 
2013-08-30 01:59:37 AM

Deedeemarz: So the financial stress that the rest of us middle- and upper-middle class working joes endure doesn't cause us the same issue? I don't even understand that premise....poor people have a govt safety net stretched out below them to save them from their bad mistakes or "stress-induced" shiatty life choices. What about us? We make a bad decision or lose a job and the stress just rolls off us? Oh please, dumb people make dumb choices and don't learn from them. This is not related to IQ.



Nutrititon.
 
2013-08-30 02:00:13 AM

WordyGrrl: i


lulz
 
2013-08-30 02:41:53 AM

WordyGrrl: StoPPeRmobile: WordyGrrl: "I'm not sure how I'm going to feed my kids this week, and my power just got disconnected, and my spouse just had a heart attack and we have no insurance... But, sure! I'll just drop all those silly cares and put every bit of my brain matter into taking your little pretend quiz for your school project, College Boy."

Two types of poor people:
1) Those who believe they are powerless, and that their lives will never improve, no matter what they do. These are the binge spenders, non-savers, frivolous types who get $20 manicures and buy $50 in lottery tickets every month. Chances are, their parents told them "Live for today, 'cause it won't get no better than this."

2) Those who seek power to improve their lives, and actively strive to find opportunities to do so in order to rebel against the poverty they were born into. They'll be way more stressed out than Group 1, and they may not actually reach that "good life" status, but some of them will. And that's enough hope to keep going.

You forgot those without rhythm.
That would be a sub-class of Group 2: chicks who can spin around a pole. If they are genuinely Class 2, they will use that cash to earn a degree that gets them a job waaaay the hell away from where they danced. If they're Class 1, they'll dance until they marry the customer who got them preggers, and live off whatever benefits they get.




Oh, there you go bringing class into it again.
 
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