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(Reuters)   You aren't poor because you are stupid. You are stupid because you are poor   (reuters.com ) divider line
    More: Unlikely, goal difference, University of Warwick, poverty  
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6992 clicks; posted to Main » on 29 Aug 2013 at 5:42 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-08-29 06:23:45 PM  

Super Chronic: Love the URL.


Thanks!

/subby
 
2013-08-29 06:23:48 PM  

The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves: Mark Ratner: Yeah, well the world needs ditch diggers, too.

Not really


Really.. Who the heck uses SHOVELS these days? Do they still MAKE 'em?

These days you gotta hire a union guy in a backhoe and pay him $50/hour.
 
2013-08-29 06:24:34 PM  

marsoft: kurlumbenus: marsoft: austerity101: marsoft: I call bullshiat.

I was born in a "poor" family.  Both of my parents were in prison until I was aged 8 (don't ask).  I grew up wearing my older brothers out grown clothes. I don't mean some of my clothes used to be his I mean all of them until I was 15, when I got a job and started buying my own.

I am talking eating jam sandwiches for dinner poor (if you got dinner).

Now?  I have a good job, a good degree, and am studying for a masters degree.

Being poor does not make you stupid.

Of course, that's not what the study says.

Well to be specific the study says being poor drops your IQ by 13 points.  Or are we reading different studies?

That's not what it says, either.

Financial stress caused by scarcity causes impairment equivalent to a 13 point drop in IQ. It's distracting, it doesn't somehow leech your brain cells away.

I hope your degree does not require reading comprehension.

Direct quote from the article in question "The mental strain could be costing poor people up to 13 IQ (intelligence quotient) points "


You right now
media4.onsugar.com
 
2013-08-29 06:26:44 PM  

marsoft: I am saying that is bullshiat. I am saying that being poor does not make you less able to focus, think or plan.


But you have given no evidence of this claim.  It's just an assertion.  You haven't systematically compared the average ability of poor people to focus, think, or plan to a similar population of rich people.

In fact I am saying the opposite can be true. It just depends on where the focus is.  If you are for instance so poor you cannot afford food, it basically forces you to focus, think, and plan on how to get enough money to eat.

That's irrelevant to the findings of this study, which asked poor and rich people to focus on the same tasks.  It's not a comparison of poor people with focus to rich people without focus.
 
2013-08-29 06:29:27 PM  
I lost my mittens.
 
2013-08-29 06:29:46 PM  

marsoft: In fact I am saying the opposite can be true. It just depends on where the focus is.  If you are for instance so poor you cannot afford food, it basically forces you to focus, think, and plan on how to get enough money to eat.


Also, if you read the article, it says "'The poor are often highly effective at focusing on and dealing with pressing problems,' [Shafir] said. 'But they don't have leftover bandwidth to devote to other tasks.  So, if you live in poverty, you're more error prone and errors cost you more dearly -- it's hard to find a way out.'"
 
2013-08-29 06:31:28 PM  

Mugato: I think people in general and this study in particular over generalizes what causes people to be poor and over estimates the intelligence of rich people.

/not poor
//not rich
///genius IQ
////IQ doesn't mean shiat


True.  I think it is a combination of both though.  Your parents are not all that brilliant.  One of them went to college back when it wasn't ridiculously expensive and has a decent job.  They have you.  You are pretty average also.  You do okay in school but your parents really don't push you hard intellectually because they are pretty average.  You get a HS diploma and are unable to get any grants or scholarships.  A little research happens and you realize college is ridiculously expensive and decide not to go.  You have a kid.  You are not destitute but you are not as well off as your parents were at your age.  Your kid is average.........
 
2013-08-29 06:31:43 PM  

Sergeant Grumbles: marsoft: I am saying that is bullshiat. I am saying that being poor does not make you less able to focus, think or plan.

In fact I am saying the opposite can be true. It just depends on where the focus is. If you are for instance so poor you cannot afford food, it basically forces you to focus, think, and plan on how to get enough money to eat.

Oh. In that case, it's bullshiat and you're a moron. For all your talk of being poor, you've either never had to worry about where your next meal was coming from or you learned nothing from the experience. Desperation doesn't make people smarter, it makes them irrational.


Yes. I notice your use of the word "them".  Desperation makes you focus.  How do I know? 2 years living on the street from age 16 to age 18.

Never had to worry about where my next meal was coming from?  Seriously, from age 8 I always wondered that.

Being poor does not make you irrational, being desperate does not make you irrational.

Please provide actual evidence to back up your position rather than one study which does not provide (from the article anyway) a set of numbers to substantiate it.
 
2013-08-29 06:33:00 PM  

TomD9938: I did about a decade as an inner city landlord and pretty much all of my tenants were poor (except for the one stripper).

Some of them were "slow", but most of them were as smart as the average person you'd meet.

What did seperate them from stable "not poor" people was their love of partying (drinking and smoking weed / crack / meth) every day.

Making ends meet is not priority one for such people.

This study sounds like just another p.c. acedemic crusade where the conclusion was reached before the study began.


So you're saying poor people engage in activities that reduce stress?
 
2013-08-29 06:33:19 PM  
I personally know several wealthy people. They are idiots.

Luck and being an asshole make you rich. Rich people are the "fatties" of economics: gluttonous beings who consume more than they need just because can.
 
2013-08-29 06:35:07 PM  

marsoft: Please provide actual evidence to back up your position rather than one study which does not provide (from the article anyway) a set of numbers to substantiate it.


You first. You're the one disagreeing with the article.

Though I'm tempted just to use you as evidence, since if you're telling the truth about being poor, it kicked the shiat out of your brain.
 
2013-08-29 06:35:28 PM  
Actually people tend to perceive successful people as smart. The more successful you are the more outlandish your ideas can be and people will believe them. Take Elon Musk - it took just a dozen poorly researched pages about a transportation system he has no interest in creating to have people demanding the bullet train cease so work on the hyperloop could begin, despite the inherent ludicrousness of the proposal.
 
2013-08-29 06:36:16 PM  

Prophet of Loss: I personally know several wealthy people. They are idiots.

Luck and being an asshole make you rich. Rich people are the "fatties" of economics: gluttonous beings who consume more than they need just because can.


Those that inherited money, not working for it, tend to be idiots.  Tommy boys
 
2013-08-29 06:36:42 PM  

marsoft: Sergeant Grumbles: marsoft: Ah, now this is where I can provide some evidence. When I was a younger and went on what in the UK was called "Employment Training", I ended up very quickly as a tutor for the long term unemployed. I specialised in IT skills and adult numeracy and literacy.

I can extend my sample set to several hundred people who were very intelligent but had little or no formal education, but had been written off as stupid poor people.

Many of my students went on to hold down good, well paying jobs, that usually required a degree.

I think I DO know what I am talking about, and have a decent set of numbers to back it up.

I don't think you understand what the article is saying or are giving too much credence to the headline.
It's not that the poor are truly stupid, or even incapable, it's that the mental demands of being poor are taxing their brainpower to such a degree that they have less ability to focus, think, and plan.

I am saying that is bullshiat. I am saying that being poor does not make you less able to focus, think or plan.

In fact I am saying the opposite can be true. It just depends on where the focus is.  If you are for instance so poor you cannot afford food, it basically forces you to focus, think, and plan on how to get enough money to eat.


And while you were all focused on how to get your next meal, you just ran a red light and got a ticket for $100. 

 Had you not been stressing about food, you  would not have missed the red light and not cost yourself $100. 

 The equivalent "mental drain" on being poor is about the same as having a lousy night's sleep. You can still get through the day, but your odds of making simple mistakes go up and cost you. 

. While I'm sure you were uncool (wearing hand me downs) and hungry. You weren't the one scrambling to make ends meet like your guardian. You weren't responsible for putting food on the table for everyone, responsible for other people having a place to live, and basically having the entire welfare of the family riding on your every decision where one mistake was going to royally screw everyone.

  That's a big farking difference than being a kid and being hungry (as sucky as that is.).
 
2013-08-29 06:36:55 PM  
The elephant in the room is that poor people LOVE to waste their money.  Everyone always talks about  "Healthy food is expensive, so poor people can't buy healthy food."  But I've NEVER seen a poor person not have enough money to spend on booze, cigarettes.  I remember reading a statistic somewhere that poor smokers spend a full 1/3rd of their income on cigarettes.  Poor people always have a smart phone, they can get their hair/nails done every week, they buy christmas presents for all their friends.

Then when they get into some money they spend it as quickly as possible on a brand new car or house, etc. that they obviously can't afford to maintain.  Gotta buy a brand new dining-room set to impress the cousins!  It's about not having impulse control or the ability to plan, not about IQ-type intelligence.

For instance there was that girl who got about 700k for falsely accusing Brian Banks of rape and then suing her school.  Just a few years later... she's a single mother on welfare.  Couldn't spend any of that money on birth control, or a college education, or starting a business, but that is not unusual at all.  So many poor people like to shat out babies all over the place and then complain about being poor.  But nevermind that, we always have to paint poor people as helpless victims.
 
2013-08-29 06:39:36 PM  
Direct quote from the article

In the mall study, they gathered dozens of low and middle-income shoppers and subjected them to a battery of tests to measure IQ and impulse control.

In India, the researchers found that farmers had diminished cognitive performance before getting paid for their harvest compared to afterwards, when their coffers have been replenished.

So in the US they asked dozens of people in a mall, in India there is no mention of how many people were in the study.

An this is the science you want me to debunk, seriously?
 
2013-08-29 06:40:49 PM  
Of course rich people can look smart when their always asking their employees for the answers. Ever worked for a business owner - honestly I think rich people are generally stupid - the only thing that separates us is they have money and I don't.

I need a good lottery ticket or someone rich to die.  Then I can join the club.
 
2013-08-29 06:41:15 PM  

marsoft: Direct quote from the article

In the mall study, they gathered dozens of low and middle-income shoppers and subjected them to a battery of tests to measure IQ and impulse control.

In India, the researchers found that farmers had diminished cognitive performance before getting paid for their harvest compared to afterwards, when their coffers have been replenished.

So in the US they asked dozens of people in a mall, in India there is no mention of how many people were in the study.

An this is the science you want me to debunk, seriously?


simpsonsscreenshots.com
 
2013-08-29 06:42:34 PM  

Dion Fortune: The elephant in the room is that poor people LOVE to waste their money.  Everyone always talks about  "Healthy food is expensive, so poor people can't buy healthy food."  But I've NEVER seen a poor person not have enough money to spend on booze, cigarettes.  I remember reading a statistic somewhere that poor smokers spend a full 1/3rd of their income on cigarettes.  Poor people always have a smart phone, they can get their hair/nails done every week, they buy christmas presents for all their friends.

Then when they get into some money they spend it as quickly as possible on a brand new car or house, etc. that they obviously can't afford to maintain.  Gotta buy a brand new dining-room set to impress the cousins!  It's about not having impulse control or the ability to plan, not about IQ-type intelligence.

For instance there was that girl who got about 700k for falsely accusing Brian Banks of rape and then suing her school.  Just a few years later... she's a single mother on welfare.  Couldn't spend any of that money on birth control, or a college education, or starting a business, but that is not unusual at all.  So many poor people like to shat out babies all over the place and then complain about being poor.  But nevermind that, we always have to paint poor people as helpless victims.


Funny thing about all those things you mentioned...they are by and large cheaper than eating healthy regularly (esp for a family). Even the cigarettes. 

/great times we live in, eh? 
//yes, I do know poor people who do not spend lots of money on those things you mention (they might get a six pack on in a while for a social gather or something). They still don't have enough to eat well.
 
2013-08-29 06:42:55 PM  

Prophet of Loss: marsoft: Direct quote from the article

In the mall study, they gathered dozens of low and middle-income shoppers and subjected them to a battery of tests to measure IQ and impulse control.

In India, the researchers found that farmers had diminished cognitive performance before getting paid for their harvest compared to afterwards, when their coffers have been replenished.

So in the US they asked dozens of people in a mall, in India there is no mention of how many people were in the study.

An this is the science you want me to debunk, seriously?

[simpsonsscreenshots.com image 768x576]


you post pictures coz you know I am right.

When has dozens of people ever been a good sample for a scientific study?
 
2013-08-29 06:42:59 PM  
Explains why Americans are so dumb.


Dion Fortune: The elephant in the room is that poor people LOVE to waste their money.  Everyone always talks about  "Healthy food is expensive, so poor people can't buy healthy food."  But I've NEVER seen a poor person not have enough money to spend on booze, cigarettes.  I remember reading a statistic somewhere that poor smokers spend a full 1/3rd of their income on cigarettes.  Poor people always have a smart phone, they can get their hair/nails done every week, they buy christmas presents for all their friends.


bullsheet.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-08-29 06:44:22 PM  

INeedAName: TomD9938: I did about a decade as an inner city landlord and pretty much all of my tenants were poor (except for the one stripper).

Some of them were "slow", but most of them were as smart as the average person you'd meet.

What did seperate them from stable "not poor" people was their love of partying (drinking and smoking weed / crack / meth) every day.

Making ends meet is not priority one for such people.

This study sounds like just another p.c. acedemic crusade where the conclusion was reached before the study began.



So you're saying poor people engage in activities that reduce stress?


It's more about getting high than reducing stress.

The stress, of say, paying the rent, only comes into play at the last moment of the thirty day cycle.  Every day up until then is about the self.

Again, not stupid, but a shared blase attitude over the consequences of not taking action earlier.
 
2013-08-29 06:44:33 PM  
The fact something like 85% of the worlds wealth is held by 5% of the population is just semantics, really.
 
2013-08-29 06:46:16 PM  

J. Frank Parnell: The fact something like 85% of the worlds wealth is held by 5% of the population is just semantics, really.


I think you are a few years out of date on that.  Readjust your percentages in the bad direction.
 
2013-08-29 06:50:33 PM  

FlashHarry: [1-media-cdn.foolz.us image 510x319]


Came here to post this. *shakes tiny fist*
 
2013-08-29 06:51:27 PM  

marsoft: Direct quote from the article

In the mall study, they gathered dozens of low and middle-income shoppers and subjected them to a battery of tests to measure IQ and impulse control.

In India, the researchers found that farmers had diminished cognitive performance before getting paid for their harvest compared to afterwards, when their coffers have been replenished.

So in the US they asked dozens of people in a mall, in India there is no mention of how many people were in the study.

An this is the science you want me to debunk, seriously?


According to the research article, here were 101 subjects in the mall study, and 464 subjects in the India study.

Exercise:  what is the statistical power of this study to detect a ~13 point difference in samples of this size (given an assumed 15-point standard deviation in the general population)?

Also, some quotes from the article:

"The data reported here suggest a different perspective on poverty: Being poor means coping not just with a shortfall of money, but also with a concurrent shortfall of cognitive resources. The poor, in this view, are less capable not because of inherent traits, but because the very context of poverty imposes load and impedes cognitive capacity. The findings, in other words, are not about poor people, but about any people who find themselves poor."

"How large are these effects? Sleep researchers have examined the cognitive impact (on Raven's) of losing a full night of sleep through experimental manipulations (38). In standard deviation terms, the
laboratory study findings are of the same size, and the field findings are three quarters that size. Put simply, evoking financial concerns has a cognitive impact comparable with losing a full night of sleep. In addition, similar effect sizes have been observed in the performance on Raven's matrices of chronic alcoholics versus normal adults (39) and of 60- versus 45-year-olds (40). By way of calibration, according to a
common approximation used by intelligence researchers, with a mean of 100 and a standard deviation of 15 the effects we observed correspond to ~13 IQ points. These sizable magnitudes suggest the cognitive impact of poverty could have large real consequences."
 
2013-08-29 06:52:15 PM  

Dion Fortune: The elephant in the room is that poor people LOVE to waste their money.  Everyone always talks about  "Healthy food is expensive, so poor people can't buy healthy food."  But I've NEVER seen a poor person not have enough money to spend on booze, cigarettes.  I remember reading a statistic somewhere that poor smokers spend a full 1/3rd of their income on cigarettes.  Poor people always have a smart phone, they can get their hair/nails done every week, they buy christmas presents for all their friends.


People today (at least those under 50-60) probably really have no concept of what being "Poor" means, and as bad as it is (today) at least it's nothing like what it used to be.  My parents used to tell me stories about what being poor used to mean. Being poor meant your mother made your clothes out of old potato sacks, and yes, you actually had to wear them to school. Being poor meant if you didn't chop enough wood for your family, you froze that winter.  Being poor meant if you didn't grow your own food (garden, chickens, etc.) your family didn't eat. Only the well-to-do had cows (which meant they got to eat beef).  I consider myself very lucky that I didn't grow up during that time.
 
2013-08-29 06:52:15 PM  

Dion Fortune: For instance there was that girl who got about 700k for falsely accusing Brian Banks of rape and then suing her school.  Just a few years later... she's a single mother on welfare.


And Donald Trump was born a millionaire and declared bankruptcy 4 times through various companies he owned. There are at least a dozen multi-millionaire celebrities I could name who are thousands or millions in the hole from taxes. CEOs, bank executives either under indictment or in prison for screwing over thousands of people and not being smart enough not to get caught. Then there are the PHDs who make $40,000/year. There is no coherent generalization between intellect and net worth.
 
2013-08-29 06:52:17 PM  

marsoft: Now? I have a good job, a good degree, and am studying for a masters degree.

Being poor does not make you stupid.


Yeah, but just think of what your life would have been like if your brain hadn't have been crippled by poverty.
 
2013-08-29 06:52:19 PM  

marsoft: When has dozens of people ever been a good sample for a scientific study?


When the effect size is large enough that you don't need a larger sample to detect significant differences.
 
2013-08-29 06:56:07 PM  
There's a difference between someone who's poor by choice (who squanders their money on addictions, bad life decisions, and willfully stays that way) and someone who's poor due to circumstance (lack of work despite education or experience, high living expenses, difficult life circumstances).

The problem with society is we're too busy discriminating against the poor as a whole, while the very wealthy have successfully pointed the finger away from their direction, and continue to leech their way of life off of the hard word and ignorance of the majority.

The weak, stupid, and vulnerable in society are the rich who manipulate and misdirect our collective efforts. Next time you point your finger at a homeless man for collecting his welfare check, look into the pockets of the administrative heads who run the local charity, the businesses and organizations who are subsidized by government incentives that were created to control the situation (employment agencies, food bank initiatives, government established operations and divisions), and the growing number of corporation heads who refuse to sustain well-paid jobs in your country while they outsource work opportunities, effectively increasing their absurd wealth while impoverishing the rest of society. You'll find the majority of your money there.

The poor aren't a disease, they're the commodity the very rich use to deceive you into looking in the other direction while they profit off of you, an affirmation that the system is broken and our treatments of these issues are ineffective. The proper cure for poverty: The elimination of an upper ruling class and the fairer distribution of wealth and opportunity among all members of society.  Affordable and widely available education and healthcare. Higher wages, less outsourcing, and more work opportunities. Ethical business practice and the 100% transparency of government associated funds. The elimination of political organizations and government incentives whose main reason for existing is the misappropriation of public funds. Affordable property and living opportunities that are equally distributed as opposed to being exclusively maintained in one area of our communities where desperation and depression can fester. The reduction of crime labelled offenses and introduction of rehabilitative programs as opposed to prisons. I could go on and on, but you get the point...

/Or just keep on biatching while ignoring the collective picture. It's what the rich elite want and will continue to hope for, right up until your own ass and that of your family is on the street as well.
//Rant
 
2013-08-29 07:00:25 PM  

blacksharpiemarker: There's a difference between someone who's poor by choice (who squanders their money on addictions, bad life decisions, and willfully stays that way) and someone who's poor due to circumstance (lack of work despite education or experience, high living expenses, difficult life circumstances).

The problem with society is we're too busy discriminating against the poor as a whole, while the very wealthy have successfully pointed the finger away from their direction, and continue to leech their way of life off of the hard word and ignorance of the majority.

The weak, stupid, and vulnerable in society are the rich who manipulate and misdirect our collective efforts. Next time you point your finger at a homeless man for collecting his welfare check, look into the pockets of the administrative heads who run the local charity, the businesses and organizations who are subsidized by government incentives that were created to control the situation (employment agencies, food bank initiatives, government established operations and divisions), and the growing number of corporation heads who refuse to sustain well-paid jobs in your country while they outsource work opportunities, effectively increasing their absurd wealth while impoverishing the rest of society. You'll find the majority of your money there.

The poor aren't a disease, they're the commodity the very rich use to deceive you into looking in the other direction while they profit off of you, an affirmation that the system is broken and our treatments of these issues are ineffective. The proper cure for poverty: The elimination of an upper ruling class and the fairer distribution of wealth and opportunity among all members of society.  Affordable and widely available education and healthcare. Higher wages, less outsourcing, and more work opportunities. Ethical business practice and the 100% transparency of government associated funds. The elimination of political organizations and government incentives whose main reason for existing is the misappropriation of public funds. Affordable property and living opportunities that are equally distributed as opposed to being exclusively maintained in one area of our communities where desperation and depression can fester. The reduction of crime labelled offenses and introduction of rehabilitative programs as opposed to prisons. I could go on and on, but you get the point...

/Or just keep on biatching while ignoring the collective picture. It's what the rich elite want and will continue to hope for, right up until your own ass and that of your family is on the street as well.
//Rant


Well...I uh...hmmm.

This?
 
2013-08-29 07:04:55 PM  
"The reason that the rich were so rich, Vimes reasoned, was because they managed to spend less money.

Take boots, for example. He earned thirty-eight dollars a month plus allowances. A really good pair of leather boots cost fifty dollars. But an affordable pair of boots, which were sort of OK for a season or two and then leaked like hell when the cardboard gave out, cost about ten dollars. Those were the kind of boots Vimes always bought, and wore until the soles were so thin that he could tell where he was in Ankh-Morpork on a foggy night by the feel of the cobbles.

But the thing was that good boots lasted for years and years. A man who could afford fifty dollars had a pair of boots that'd still be keeping his feet dry in ten years' time, while the poor man who could only afford cheap boots would have spent a hundred dollars on boots in the same time and would still have wet feet.

This was the Captain Samuel Vimes 'Boots' theory of socioeconomic unfairness."

― Terry Pratchett, Men at Arms: The Play
 
2013-08-29 07:06:06 PM  

Ambitwistor: marsoft: When has dozens of people ever been a good sample for a scientific study?

When the effect size is large enough that you don't need a larger sample to detect significant differences.


Incorrect, as there is always a chance that the effect is only present in your sample.  The larger and more diverse the sample the less this chance is.

I will give you an example.  If we interviewed people in Afganistan and asked if Islam was evil we would get a different answer than in the USA..

There is always bias in samples, but the larger and more diverse the samples, the lesser the degree of bias.
 
2013-08-29 07:07:41 PM  

Dion Fortune: The elephant in the room is that poor people LOVE to waste their money.  Everyone always talks about  "Healthy food is expensive, so poor people can't buy healthy food."  But I've NEVER seen a poor person not have enough money to spend on booze, cigarettes.  I remember reading a statistic somewhere that poor smokers spend a full 1/3rd of their income on cigarettes.  Poor people always have a smart phone, they can get their hair/nails done every week, they buy christmas presents for all their friends.

Then when they get into some money they spend it as quickly as possible on a brand new car or house, etc. that they obviously can't afford to maintain.  Gotta buy a brand new dining-room set to impress the cousins!  It's about not having impulse control or the ability to plan, not about IQ-type intelligence.

For instance there was that girl who got about 700k for falsely accusing Brian Banks of rape and then suing her school.  Just a few years later... she's a single mother on welfare.  Couldn't spend any of that money on birth control, or a college education, or starting a business, but that is not unusual at all.  So many poor people like to shat out babies all over the place and then complain about being poor.  But nevermind that, we always have to paint poor people as helpless victims.



So, poor people don't actually live miserable lives of constant menial labor but instead pursue modest human escapes and are even generous to their friends, despite their poverty.  For shame!

But that guy who bought a yacht or a $200,000 car or his 5th house that he's never at... definitely a better person and more worthy of our respect.
 
2013-08-29 07:08:24 PM  
I bet I'd be wealthier if I didn't waste so much time on this site.
 
2013-08-29 07:08:45 PM  

Southern100: Dion Fortune: The elephant in the room is that poor people LOVE to waste their money.  Everyone always talks about  "Healthy food is expensive, so poor people can't buy healthy food."  But I've NEVER seen a poor person not have enough money to spend on booze, cigarettes.  I remember reading a statistic somewhere that poor smokers spend a full 1/3rd of their income on cigarettes.  Poor people always have a smart phone, they can get their hair/nails done every week, they buy christmas presents for all their friends.

People today (at least those under 50-60) probably really have no concept of what being "Poor" means, and as bad as it is (today) at least it's nothing like what it used to be.  My parents used to tell me stories about what being poor used to mean. Being poor meant your mother made your clothes out of old potato sacks, and yes, you actually had to wear them to school. Being poor meant if you didn't chop enough wood for your family, you froze that winter.  Being poor meant if you didn't grow your own food (garden, chickens, etc.) your family didn't eat. Only the well-to-do had cows (which meant they got to eat beef).  I consider myself very lucky that I didn't grow up during that time.


If "other people suffered more" makes you feel better you are a literal monster.
 
2013-08-29 07:11:04 PM  

marsoft: I think you are a few years out of date on that. Readjust your percentages in the bad direction.


I'm afraid to look.
 
2013-08-29 07:13:11 PM  

dchurch0: "The reason that the rich were so rich, Vimes reasoned, was because they managed to spend less money.

Take boots, for example. He earned thirty-eight dollars a month plus allowances. A really good pair of leather boots cost fifty dollars. But an affordable pair of boots, which were sort of OK for a season or two and then leaked like hell when the cardboard gave out, cost about ten dollars. Those were the kind of boots Vimes always bought, and wore until the soles were so thin that he could tell where he was in Ankh-Morpork on a foggy night by the feel of the cobbles.

But the thing was that good boots lasted for years and years. A man who could afford fifty dollars had a pair of boots that'd still be keeping his feet dry in ten years' time, while the poor man who could only afford cheap boots would have spent a hundred dollars on boots in the same time and would still have wet feet.

This was the Captain Samuel Vimes 'Boots' theory of socioeconomic unfairness."

― Terry Pratchett, Men at Arms: The Play



There's a lot of truth to this if you look at financial products.  If you have enough money in an account, your banking is far cheaper because the bank earns enough interest on the float.  Loans are extremely cheap.

If you are poor however, and only have small amounts at any time, no bank will give you an account and you have to rely on expensive check cashing or pay-per-debit systems just to buy goods.  Then for unexpected expenses you are forced to payday or title loans with exorbitant interest rates.
 
2013-08-29 07:13:40 PM  
The bottom line is that rich people are smart and better and poor people are dumb and just bad people. The guy who was almost President spent his inherited millions in a career that involved buying companies, destroying them, selling them off piece by piece for profit while the employees of those companies lost their retirement. He's awesome and better than the rest of us. But as a nation, it's those welfare mothers who are bleeding us dry!
 
2013-08-29 07:13:44 PM  

marsoft: I call bullshiat.

I was born in a "poor" family.  Both of my parents were in prison until I was aged 8 (don't ask).  I grew up wearing my older brothers out grown clothes. I don't mean some of my clothes used to be his I mean all of them until I was 15, when I got a job and started buying my own.

I am talking eating jam sandwiches for dinner poor (if you got dinner).

Now?  I have a good job, a good degree, and am studying for a masters degree.

Being poor does not make you stupid.


You would have finished your PhD by now if you weren't so poor.
 
2013-08-29 07:14:58 PM  

the_chief: marsoft: I call bullshiat.

I was born in a "poor" family.  Both of my parents were in prison until I was aged 8 (don't ask).  I grew up wearing my older brothers out grown clothes. I don't mean some of my clothes used to be his I mean all of them until I was 15, when I got a job and started buying my own.

I am talking eating jam sandwiches for dinner poor (if you got dinner).

Now?  I have a good job, a good degree, and am studying for a masters degree.

Being poor does not make you stupid.

You would have finished your PhD by now if you weren't so poor.


Naaa. I have PhDs working for me now. Not worth the effort.
 
2013-08-29 07:17:02 PM  

dchurch0: "The reason that the rich were so rich, Vimes reasoned, was because they managed to spend less money.

Take boots, for example. He earned thirty-eight dollars a month plus allowances. A really good pair of leather boots cost fifty dollars. But an affordable pair of boots, which were sort of OK for a season or two and then leaked like hell when the cardboard gave out, cost about ten dollars. Those were the kind of boots Vimes always bought, and wore until the soles were so thin that he could tell where he was in Ankh-Morpork on a foggy night by the feel of the cobbles.

But the thing was that good boots lasted for years and years. A man who could afford fifty dollars had a pair of boots that'd still be keeping his feet dry in ten years' time, while the poor man who could only afford cheap boots would have spent a hundred dollars on boots in the same time and would still have wet feet.

This was the Captain Samuel Vimes 'Boots' theory of socioeconomic unfairness."

― Terry Pratchett, Men at Arms: The Play


I've heard that put a different way: "I'm to poor to shop at Wal-Mart and always end up having to replace things".
 
2013-08-29 07:23:38 PM  

marsoft: the_chief: marsoft:

Now?  I have a good job, a good degree, and am studying for a masters degree.

Being poor does not make you stupid.

You would have finished your PhD by now if you weren't so poor.

Naaa. I have PhDs working for me now. Not worth the effort.


So you're poor and lazy? It's just a vicious cycle of poverty for you.
 
2013-08-29 07:25:24 PM  

That guy on the bike: Can't I just be poor?

/yay my Boobies on this silly thing
//only took me 11 years
///i'm been waiting to use slashies


11 years and still got filter pwned.
 
2013-08-29 07:30:38 PM  

jst3p: It made you too stupid to understand that a single anecdote isn't a valid sample size from which meaningful conclusions about complex issues can be drawn.


He wasn't attempting a statistical analysis, he was offering a counter-example. A single counter-example is sufficient to disprove a claim.

/ If you're ever certain enough of your position to accuse others of stupidity, you're probably wrong
 
2013-08-29 07:37:06 PM  

the_chief: marsoft: the_chief: marsoft:

Now?  I have a good job, a good degree, and am studying for a masters degree.

Being poor does not make you stupid.

You would have finished your PhD by now if you weren't so poor.

Naaa. I have PhDs working for me now. Not worth the effort.

So you're poor and lazy? It's just a vicious cycle of poverty for you.


You got me there :)
 
2013-08-29 07:38:48 PM  
I grew up in a trailer house, and my mom has been disabled since I was 8. She was a nurse and got hurt on the job. An extremely obese man fell on her and screwed up her back to the point that she can no longer walk. My mom's only 5' 2" tall, and weighs about 100 lbs. My father was a mechanic and didn't make much money. All we had was his meager income to support a family of four, and pay for my mom's medical bills.

I remember one year all I got was an alarm clock and a robe for Christmas, and I could tell that my parents struggled just to make that happen.

I got tired of not having enough money to go skating with my friends, or go to the arcade with my friends. Do you know what it's like to watch all of your friends having a blast, but only having 50 cents at an arcade with over 50 games, and having to choose the ONE game you want to play ONCE... knowing it will be a month before you can do it again?

I hated it, so I started mowing lawns in the summer, cleaning gutters/raking leaves in the fall, scooping snow in the winter, and got a paper route when I was 11. I'd make about $10 an odd job ($20 if it was a large lawn or driveway). I got to know all of the people in our trailer park, especially the older folks who couldn't do those jobs themselves. I would basically do all their yard-work for them year round. Mow once a week, gutters twice a year, scoop the driveway when it snowed, and occasionally raking leaves (but I really hated that job). I had about 10 lots that I did that for on a regular basis, and it paid me pretty good.

I got my work permit when I was 14 so I could get a job as a dishwasher at a truck stop working 20 hours a week after school, and the day I turned 16, I started working 40 hours a week.

I bought my first car when I was 14 to learn to drive on (learners permit), then sold it and bought a '77 Monte Carlo when I was 16. I sold the datsun wagon I had previously bought and got new tires for the Monte Carlo. I miss that car...

I worked full time in restaurants (cook, server, busboy, whatever) thru high school, and put myself thru college a year after I graduated.

I'm 33 now and have an awesome career IT. I am nowhere near rich, but I can honestly say I don't really worry about money anymore.

Hopefully I will never have to live like I did when I was a child again. I don't think this article applies to me. The one thing I cherished most growing up was my library card. I loved to read and learn things, and the fact that it never cost my anything was farking fantastic.

/I'm probably just weird.
//No bootstraps here. I'm the libbiest lib that ever libbed.
///Three slashies!
 
2013-08-29 07:47:35 PM  

marsoft: I call bullshiat.

I was born in a "poor" family.  Both of my parents were in prison until I was aged 8 (don't ask).  I grew up wearing my older brothers out grown clothes. I don't mean some of my clothes used to be his I mean all of them until I was 15, when I got a job and started buying my own.

I am talking eating jam sandwiches for dinner poor (if you got dinner).

Now?  I have a good job, a good degree, and am studying for a masters degree.

Being poor does not make you stupid.


Masters in what? I assume its not in anything that required learning the concept of a Gaussian distribution.
 
2013-08-29 07:51:55 PM  

HindiDiscoMonster: Smeggy Smurf: HindiDiscoMonster: Smeggy Smurf: No, you're poor because you're lazy.  You're stupid because you are too lazy to overcome your stupidity

let's not let science get in the way of a good derp... amirite?

I wint tu publick skool.  No sighency stuf wuz teecht tu us

I'm sorry, but could you translate that into english please?


I wint to publick skool.  No trans late ur trans un tym wuz teecht tu us
 
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