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(Washington Post)   Agent Scott Boras is looking for a 12-year extension for his 20-year old client. Do it? (link fixed)   ( washingtonpost.com) divider line
    More: Misc, Scott Boras, Agent Scott, Bryce Harper, NL Rookie of the Year, Washington Nationals, free agent  
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2035 clicks; posted to Sports » on 29 Aug 2013 at 8:52 AM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-08-29 08:57:20 AM  
Yeah, because mega-deals always work out.  Just look at Pujols, Hamilton, and ARod.
 
2013-08-29 08:58:34 AM  
Not gonna click the Moonie Times so to answer subby's question directly, it depends on how the contract is structured.  But knowing Boras it's probably for $750 million for a guy who hit .257 in AAA with guaranteed back-loaded pay of $50 million per year for each year the guy's over 30.  And some MLB team will be dumb enough to accept it.  And then all the owners will wail about how contracts are out of control.
 
2013-08-29 08:58:53 AM  

drewbob21: Yeah, because mega-deals always work out.  Just look at Pujols, Hamilton, and ARod.


But Harper is 15+  years younger than Pujols, Hamilton, and ARod.

I don't like Harper, but he is a good ball player.
 
2013-08-29 09:01:22 AM  
Hell why not?  We all know how well long term contracts work out.

Or you can just tell Borass to go pound sand.

\I fully expect Borass client Ellsbury to be elsewhere next year.
\\A player who selects Borass as his agent has already expressed his desire for $$$ above all.
NTTAWWT
 
2013-08-29 09:01:28 AM  
That's a clown question, Subby.
 
2013-08-29 09:05:38 AM  
Can we get a little more details?

No, I won't RTFA.
 
2013-08-29 09:06:49 AM  
Also interesting that some players decide to jettison Boras once they get their big deal.

*cough*Teixiera*cough*A-Rod*cough*
 
2013-08-29 09:14:10 AM  
30 million a year range? Are you farking kidding? I understand that's a "starting point" but how the fark is that starting a serious discussion? You're just reminding the gm that he's dealing with an asshole supremo
 
2013-08-29 09:16:38 AM  
The thought of Harper/Boras being OK with whatever he'd be making in 2023 on a deal he signed 10 years ago just makes me laugh and laugh and laugh.
 
2013-08-29 09:18:55 AM  
Doesn't matter. Harper will test the market and be a Yankee and Trout will also test the market and be a Philly.
 
2013-08-29 09:19:02 AM  
Boras: "A rod made 28 mil this year."

Gm: so?

B: my client easily had 1000% more production. He deserves 2.8 billion... A year. Do I need macarver to remind you that he's 20?

Gm: ...


I'd love to have boras' job; just be an absurd asshole and you'll do great.
 
2013-08-29 09:20:46 AM  
Why would the Nats want this?  They are guaranteed to have Harper until 2018 for a lot less money.  It would end up hurting them in the short run for a possibility that it helps them in the long run.  Therefore I hope they do it.

/Phillies fan
//bitter
 
2013-08-29 09:23:12 AM  
The best argument against Trout is WAR and last place. Are you telling me that the Angels would only have 51 wins if Trout was not on the team? Because if you build your team with WAR, that's what you're saying.
 
2013-08-29 09:24:04 AM  
Harper isn't even arbitration eligible. Seems silly to give an extension this year. Start the discussion next year.
 
2013-08-29 09:25:13 AM  
Shouldn't he hit more than .260 and be more than an average outfielder first?  Or does Boras figure in 5 years when Harper is a free agent his worth will be about the same as a bench player?
 
2013-08-29 09:27:00 AM  

Jeteupthemiddle: Harper isn't even arbitration eligible. Seems silly to give an extension this year. Start the discussion next year.


That's what reasonable people would say: I'm sure Boras has said the equivalent of "Cough it up right now or we're going to hold our breath till we turn blue, take our ball and go home..." when it comes to the actual free agent period.

He knows the Yankees or Red Sox will be all too happy to at least make a reasonably absurd offer when free agent time comes and he can threaten to take a lesser but close deal unless they bend over and take it now.
 
2013-08-29 09:27:05 AM  
I guess players don't care about winning championships anymore.
 
2013-08-29 09:33:37 AM  
Yes - because inflation alone will make the contract valuable, assuming he remains at least major league average
 
2013-08-29 09:36:59 AM  

satanorsanta: Why would the Nats want this?  They are guaranteed to have Harper until 2018 for a lot less money.  It would end up hurting them in the short run for a possibility that it helps them in the long run.  Therefore I hope they do it.

/Phillies fan
//bitter


Well, if the team that has paid a lifetime's worth of income to Livan Hernandez (as a pitcher. I wouldn't mind if he just coached), Alfonso Soriano, and some of the other sorry, sorry guys we had in 2005-7 can't be trusted to make good personnel decisions, who can be?

// and yeah, let's wait until we're juuuuuuuuuust a bit closer to 2018
// say...August 2016, still 3 farking years away
// blow it out your Bore-ass
 
2013-08-29 09:38:45 AM  
Did I miss the math or something? It says 12-year extension that kicks in at 2016 and he'll be 32 when it is finished. Is Harper really 15 right now?
 
2013-08-29 09:40:31 AM  
The Baseball Antichrist strikes again.
 
2013-08-29 09:51:21 AM  

bulldg4life: Did I miss the math or something? It says 12-year extension that kicks in at 2016 and he'll be 32 when it is finished. Is Harper really 15 right now?


The theoretical deal which will never happen would replace his current contract
 
2013-08-29 09:59:50 AM  
If was an owner and I saw Scott Boras, I would run screaming in the other direction.  The man is a cancer.
 
2013-08-29 10:08:19 AM  
Nope. Not a chance.

Remember how bright Starlin Castro's future looked after a year-plus? The Cubs gave him eight years and $60 million.
 
2013-08-29 10:10:20 AM  

dragonchild: Not gonna click the Moonie Times so to answer subby's question directly, it depends on how the contract is structured.  But knowing Boras it's probably for $750 million for a guy who hit .257 in AAA with guaranteed back-loaded pay of $50 million per year for each year the guy's over 30.  And some MLB team will be dumb enough to accept it.  And then all the owners will wail about how contracts are out of control.


WaPo is not the Moonie Times, FYI. I'm sure there are some that would argue it's not any better, but opinion = arseholes, etc.
 
2013-08-29 10:15:04 AM  

Night Night Cream Puff: WaPo is not the Moonie Times, FYI.


I know.  I could've sworn it was Moonie Times earlier, but the caffeine hadn't kicked in at that point, so. . . eh.
 
2013-08-29 10:20:40 AM  

thecpt: I'd love to have Boras' job; just be an absurd asshole and you'll do great.


People underestimate how much ass you have to kiss to do an agent's job.  It requires a ton of boot licking and manipulation.  Meaning, if you can't look someone dead in the face and lie with a smile and soft words, it won't do you any good to even try to get the job.  Most of you would probably be convinced that he was your best friend if you sat down and talked to him for 30 minutes, because it's his job to convince everyone he's there best friend.  "Hey, even though he screwed over all these other people, he won't do that to me because he's a bud".

/Has known far too many people like that
//For some strange reason I never got along with any of them.
 
2013-08-29 10:21:07 AM  
Jay Z would give him a shout on his next hit.
 
2013-08-29 10:21:32 AM  
Agent Scott Boras is looking for a 12-year extension for his 20-year old client. Do it?

boydwonder.files.wordpress.com
No. NEXT QUESTION!!!
 
2013-08-29 10:22:45 AM  

dragonchild: Night Night Cream Puff: WaPo is not the Moonie Times, FYI.

I know.  I could've sworn it was Moonie Times earlier, but the caffeine hadn't kicked in at that point, so. . . eh.


Understandable. Already on cup #4 myself. I agree that Boras is the bain of reasonable baseball contracts though. These 10+ year contracts are quite stupid, especially when you see how many "young stars" fizzle after year 3 or 4 or hit the injury/rehad cycle of futility.
 
2013-08-29 10:24:43 AM  
Boras is just scared Jay-Z will screw over his agency empire
 
2013-08-29 10:25:37 AM  
It was the Washington times 30 minutes ago. The link stopped working and an admin changed it.
 
2013-08-29 10:27:12 AM  

WTF Indeed: The best argument against Trout is WAR and last place. Are you telling me that the Angels would only have 51 wins if Trout was not on the team? Because if you build your team with WAR, that's what you're saying.


That sounds pretty reasonable really.  They're 27th in runs against so however you want to assign that blame to pitching/defense they're very bad in that half of the game, and Trout is their best hitter by miles.  No one else on the team even has an .800 OPS and he's at 1.001.  Without Trout they're bottom half in runs scored and bottom 5 in runs against, that could easily add up to a 95 loss team.
 
2013-08-29 10:29:18 AM  
With the way baseball free agency works, this is probably the future of contracts.

Teams will be shying away from signing the 30 year old free agent to big bucks, so players will need to get their big bucks earlier... though Harper may not be worth such a commitment

Though if I'm Mike Trout, I'm not stepping on the field next year without a multi-year deal.
 
2013-08-29 10:30:33 AM  

degenerate-afro: People underestimate how much ass you have to kiss to do an agent's job.


It's acting.  I can act.  It's the sociopathy requirement that makes me unsuited for the job.  He even screws over his own clients for more money, steering them into bad situations for bigger pay, which to me makes saying he's "good" at the job rather subjective.
 
2013-08-29 10:34:12 AM  

bulldg4life: It was the Washington times 30 minutes ago. The link stopped working and an admin changed it.


So the Moonies couldn't handle the awesomeness of Fark traffic then. That's what I'll go with.
/apologies dragonchild. Your eyes were working just fine.
 
2013-08-29 10:39:35 AM  

MugzyBrown: With the way baseball free agency works, this is probably the future of contracts.

Teams will be shying away from signing the 30 year old free agent to big bucks, so players will need to get their big bucks earlier... though Harper may not be worth such a commitment

Though if I'm Mike Trout, I'm not stepping on the field next year without a multi-year deal.


They could fix that by letting players roid up and have a magical late 30 career renaissance
 
2013-08-29 10:40:23 AM  

dragonchild: steering them into bad situations for bigger pay


It's his job to get the best deal for his client.  If his client wants a 'better situation' for less pay, then it's their job to communicate that to the agent.
 
2013-08-29 10:41:02 AM  

bulldg4life: It was the Washington times 30 minutes ago. The link stopped working and an admin changed it.


Bullshiat.  I bet the link works.  The admins are out to get me.
 
2013-08-29 10:55:14 AM  

dragonchild: degenerate-afro: People underestimate how much ass you have to kiss to do an agent's job.

It's acting.  I can act.  It's the sociopathy requirement that makes me unsuited for the job.  He even screws over his own clients for more money, steering them into bad situations for bigger pay, which to me makes saying he's "good" at the job rather subjective.


Do you think that the other agents out there aren't sociopathic liars?

There's a reason why he's the best at what he does and it's not a fluke.  What I'm saying is that all of the people who say "I can do that job" have no idea what they are talking about.  There are hundreds of other agents trying to do that job and failing.

Perhaps you have heard of Tarell Brown and his agent Brian Overstreet?
Maybe you heard about Elvis Dumervil and his agent Marty Magid?

The way most players see it is, "If I have to sleep with a snake, I might as well go with the one that offers the most money.  I'll be bitten either way."
 
2013-08-29 10:57:20 AM  

MugzyBrown: It's his job to get the best deal for his client. If his client wants a 'better situation' for less pay, then it's their job to communicate that to the agent.


I take it you've never dealt with an agent?  Agents will use their honed negotiation skills on anyone.  They can be really pushy bastards, and it's not easy to A) know what you want out of life and B) be assertive around a guy who's much more experienced at negotiation when you're effin' 20.  For starters, if you're that good at negotiation you don't need an agent in the first place; that's the #1 justification for hiring the guy.  My wife and I detest confrontation but we're not stupid which is why we hired an agent; when we were searching for a house our agent sniffed out the former but didn't catch on the latter.  We fired her when she tried to bully us into buying a house we didn't want.

The agent doesn't work for the client; the agent works for the commission.  To get the best commission many will manipulate the client (Boras is anything but unique here), because the "best deal" for the client isn't the "best deal" for the agent.  Not that I feel sorry for these players because you only hire Scott Boras if your intentions are greedy to begin with, but my point is less about these players being victims (dude's going to make a ton of money no matter where he goes) and more about how Boras is a jackass.  To that extent this is a really odd responsibility you're imposing here.  You wouldn't expect Scott Boras to be able to strike out Bryce Harper, but you expect Bryce Harper -- who isn't even old enough to drink -- to effectively control a sociopathic battle-scarred negotiator like Scott Boras?  I think a more expected result of that conversation is that the kid would get Boras' hand shoved so far up his ass he turns into his sock puppet, because that's exactly what Boras would do to get the best deal for himself.
 
2013-08-29 10:58:48 AM  

degenerate-afro: Do you think that the other agents out there aren't sociopathic liars? There's a reason why he's the best at what he does and it's not a fluke.


I'm not quite sure what you're arguing, but it definitely has nothing to do with what I said.
 
2013-08-29 11:01:29 AM  

dragonchild: degenerate-afro: Do you think that the other agents out there aren't sociopathic liars? There's a reason why he's the best at what he does and it's not a fluke.

I'm not quite sure what you're arguing, but it definitely has nothing to do with what I said.


You stated that you could lie, but you weren't a sociopath.  I'm stating that even if you were, you still couldn't do it.
 
2013-08-29 11:05:54 AM  

dragonchild: The agent doesn't work for the client; the agent works for the commission.  To get the best commission many will manipulate the client (Boras is anything but unique here), because the "best deal" for the client isn't the "best deal" for the agent.  Not that I feel sorry for these players because you only hire Scott Boras if your intentions are greedy to begin with, but my point is less about these players being victims (dude's going to make a ton of money no matter where he goes) and more about how Boras is a jackass.  To that extent this is a really odd responsibility you're imposing here.  You wouldn't expect Scott Boras to be able to strike out Bryce Harper, but you expect Bryce Harper -- who isn't even old enough to drink -- to effectively control a sociopathic battle-scarred negotiator like Scott Boras?  I think a more expected result of that conversation is that the kid would get Boras' hand shoved so far up his ass he turns into his sock puppet, because that's exactly what Boras would do to get the best deal for himself.


Broas works for the player.  The player can change agents if he doesn't like who he's working with.  If the player is concerned more about this situation, he can tell Boras: I'll only sign with X, Y or Z, and I won't sign for less than 3 years, so make the best deal under those parameters.

Not that tricky,
 
2013-08-29 11:08:03 AM  
Quit being such a child dragonchil....nevermind. As you were.
 
2013-08-29 11:08:04 AM  

MugzyBrown: Though if I'm Mike Trout, I'm not stepping on the field next year without a multi-year deal.


I have always wondered what would happen if a player decides to start playing poorly on purpose.  If they were pre-arbitration it would kill their next contract since it is based on their performance.  But after a contract I don't know what the teams could do to penalize them.
 
2013-08-29 11:21:36 AM  

satanorsanta: MugzyBrown: Though if I'm Mike Trout, I'm not stepping on the field next year without a multi-year deal.

I have always wondered what would happen if a player decides to start playing poorly on purpose.  If they were pre-arbitration it would kill their next contract since it is based on their performance.  But after a contract I don't know what the teams could do to penalize them.


What team is going to sign a guy who weaseled out of his last contract by intentionally playing poorly?  What player would want him as a teammate?
 
2013-08-29 11:37:15 AM  

Hoopy Frood: Nope. Not a chance.

Remember how bright Starlin Castro's future looked after a year-plus? The Cubs gave him eight years and $60 million.


This, though 8 years at  60m can be seen as walk away able.  It is when you are paying 10m plus a year is when teams get into trouble.  If Harper is projected to be as good as everyone thinks... a  team could do worse than to throw 7-8m a year on a guaranteed 10 year deal to lock the kid up instead of having to shell out 12-15m a year once arbitration hits.
 
2013-08-29 11:37:29 AM  

degenerate-afro: You stated that you could lie, but you weren't a sociopath. I'm stating that even if you were, you still couldn't do it.


I didn't mean to say I could be Scott Boras; I said (perhaps unclearly) I could probably be an agent if it wasn't the sort of job that would make me lose sleep at night.  The point I was trying to lead to is that while I don't dispute that Scott Boras is the best in the business at being Scott Boras, I wouldn't want him as my agent because as far as representing my interests all evidence indicates he'd do a really crappy job.  So if there's any sort of discussion on what makes a good agent, I'd say most think Boras is the best agent in the world and I'd think he's one of the worst -- and everyone could be right.

Something else caught my attention. I'm guessing you're like most Farkers where you assume just because everyone here operates under the mask of anonymity, our various skills and experiences and capabilities are blurred into the irrelevant mush of averageness.  The way I see it, that sort of "what do you know you're just some random guy on the Internet" mindset is inherently dangerous because you never have any idea.  Random means just that -- random.  It doesn't mean every person you encounter is guaranteed to be uninteresting.  On the flip side you're defending Scott Boras as the best because. . . people say he is.  That's better than I got but this isn't a point you're exactly defending from a position of competence, here.  Now, in this case I really am just an average schlub, so you're safe.  But if you ever meet someone who's genuinely elite, my advice to you is that the way you think now, you'd never know what hit you.

MugzyBrown: Broas works for the player. The player can change agents if he doesn't like who he's working with. If the player is concerned more about this situation, he can tell Boras: I'll only sign with X, Y or Z, and I won't sign for less than 3 years, so make the best deal under those parameters.  Not that tricky,


Yeah, it's really easy to draw up on paper, just like striking out Bryce Harper.  I can easily strike out Bryce Harper. . . on paper.  Put me on the field, though, and you'll see how utterly awful I am vs. how good he is.  Working with agents is that in reverse.  Sure you could fire Scott Boras, but I'd count on him to have an emotionally manipulative shpiel ready for that moment as well.  Convincing you he's your best buddy is what he does for a living.

Your opinion really betrays a sort of naivete in dealing with salespeople, rooted in inexperience but, perhaps more troubling, anchored by wilful ignorance.  You seem to think anyone can control a seasoned negotiator like a blob of clay.  I'm actually giving Scott Boras credit here; so maybe degenerate-afro ought to switch targets and explain just how badly you're underestimating the situation.
 
2013-08-29 11:40:30 AM  

dragonchild: degenerate-afro: People underestimate how much ass you have to kiss to do an agent's job.

It's acting.  I can act.  It's the sociopathy requirement that makes me unsuited for the job.  He even screws over his own clients for more money, steering them into bad situations for bigger pay, which to me makes saying he's "good" at the job rather subjective.


I think at this stage everybody knows what Boras is about, so it's hard to say he's screwing his clients at this point.  If you're a player and you sign on with Boras, the unmistakable message is that your goal is to sign for the most money you can possibly make, period.  I'm not making a value judgment -- players are entitled to do that -- I'm just stating a fact.  If you sign with Boras, it means you're not signing extensions to avoid having to test the market (with Jered Weaver as the lone exception), it means you're not taking hometown discounts, it means you're not seeking out the best fit.  You are going for the longest, most lucrative deal you can find anywhere.  Down the road, if you find yourself languishing in a city you don't like with a team that blew its wad paying for you and can't afford to surround you with good players, and your contract makes you untradeable, you can't really say you didn't know what you were getting into.
 
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