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(The Atlantic)   George Will has fallen into that old college student trap: failing to read the sources he cites in his political rhetoric   (theatlantic.com) divider line 104
    More: Dumbass, George Will, rhetoric, students, March on Washington, American racism, Daniel Patrick Moynihan, institutional racism, black man  
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4088 clicks; posted to Politics » on 29 Aug 2013 at 1:05 AM (48 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



104 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-08-28 11:18:13 PM
Subby has fallen into that old elementary school trap of confusing "cites" and "sites."
 
2013-08-28 11:49:32 PM
I love green typos. Admins are at the bar.
 
2013-08-28 11:57:37 PM
More likely, he's citing a bad web site instead of citing the study.
 
2013-08-28 11:59:15 PM

R.A.Danny: I love green typos. Admins are at the bar.


Or admins are back from the bar.
 
2013-08-29 12:12:49 AM

WelldeadLink: R.A.Danny: I love green typos. Admins are at the bar.

Or admins are back from the bar.


Back where? Does Fark have an office?
 
2013-08-29 12:17:09 AM
Headline: failing to read the sources he sites

i.imgur.com
 
2013-08-29 01:17:40 AM
Rotsky'd in the headline. Nice.
 
2013-08-29 01:22:10 AM

Triumph: Subby has fallen into that old elementary school trap of confusing "cites" and "sites."


See: sights.
 
2013-08-29 01:28:39 AM

Kevin72: Triumph: Subby has fallen into that old elementary school trap of confusing "cites" and "sites."

See: sights.


Great... another sights seer
 
2013-08-29 01:36:48 AM
Confusing site with cite is a sight to see.
 
2013-08-29 01:39:06 AM
Simple Sally sights Susan selling sea cites at the sea shore
 
2013-08-29 01:43:14 AM
Let's all attack the typo in the headline and not savage Will for TOTALLY misrepresenting Moynihan, shall we?

The point that Will missed, in his haste to pillory blacks for all their single-mom households, which the article made and Farkers have ignored in their chortling over Subby's spelling error, is that Moynihan was quite right to note that racism in America is pretty much directly responsible for black women having to raise kids all on their own while their men are incarcerated or otherwise absent. A fact which Will apparently disregarded or deliberately chose to ignore.

You may now return to feeling superior because you know the difference between "cite" and "site."
 
2013-08-29 01:45:06 AM
What a strange article.
 
2013-08-29 01:45:46 AM

ad_rizzle: Rotsky'd in the headline. Nice.


/Needs a "pet peeve" tag.
//Gyrfalcon sounds like subby
 
2013-08-29 02:10:24 AM

Gyrfalcon: You may now return to feeling superior because you know the difference between "cite" and "site."


Thanks. That part is important to me.
 
2013-08-29 02:20:36 AM

starsrift: Gyrfalcon: You may now return to feeling superior because you know the difference between "cite" and "site."

Thanks. That part is important to me.


Smart button for one of you, Funny button for the other. I'll leave it to you to figure out who gets which.
 
2013-08-29 02:20:52 AM

Gyrfalcon: Let's all attack the typo in the headline and not savage Will for TOTALLY misrepresenting Moynihan, shall we?

The point that Will missed, in his haste to pillory blacks for all their single-mom households, which the article made and Farkers have ignored in their chortling over Subby's spelling error, is that Moynihan was quite right to note that racism in America is pretty much directly responsible for black women having to raise kids all on their own while their men are incarcerated or otherwise absent. A fact which Will apparently disregarded or deliberately chose to ignore.
...


Is Will one of the Pat Buchanan types who think the Civil War instantly brought absolute racial equality and any problems thereafter are entirely the fault of blacks and liberals? I'm curious, but can't suffer to read his tripe.
 
2013-08-29 03:08:25 AM
Is Will one of the Pat Buchanan types who think the Civil War instantly brought absolute racial equality and any problems thereafter are entirely the fault of blacks and liberals? I'm curious, but can't suffer to read his tripe.

This or that everything was fine as of 1965 are core GOP assumptions.
 
2013-08-29 03:12:34 AM

eiger: Is Will one of the Pat Buchanan types who think the Civil War instantly brought absolute racial equality and any problems thereafter are entirely the fault of blacks and liberals? I'm curious, but can't suffer to read his tripe.

This or that everything was fine as of 196555 are core GOP assumptions.


FTFY

/that liberal Eisenhower f*cked everything up
 
2013-08-29 03:15:17 AM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: eiger: Is Will one of the Pat Buchanan types who think the Civil War instantly brought absolute racial equality and any problems thereafter are entirely the fault of blacks and liberals? I'm curious, but can't suffer to read his tripe.

This or that everything was fine as of 196555 are core GOP assumptions.

FTFY

/that liberal Eisenhower f*cked everything up


Apparently, some people haven't forgiven him for highways.
 
2013-08-29 03:20:12 AM
One thing I can look forward to during an anniversary of a civil rights milestone - being amused by wealthy white men holding forth on the problems with the black community.
 
2013-08-29 03:32:31 AM

goatleggedfellow: I'm curious, but can't suffer to read his tripe.


Will is a fun one, he has a PhD in political philosophy and was for a time a professor. He was at one time a fairly genial if somewhat rigid commentator. Over the years, especially the last dozen or so he's gotten well a bit derpy.
 
2013-08-29 03:35:22 AM

WhyteRaven74: goatleggedfellow: I'm curious, but can't suffer to read his tripe.

Will is a fun one, he has a PhD in political philosophy and was for a time a professor. He was at one time a fairly genial if somewhat rigid commentator. Over the years, especially the last dozen or so he's gotten well a bit derpy.


Didn't he write a column a few decades ago on the evils of blue jeans?
 
2013-08-29 03:47:20 AM

Alphax: Didn't he write a column a few decades ago on the evils of blue jeans?


He did.
 
2013-08-29 03:56:56 AM

WhyteRaven74: goatleggedfellow: I'm curious, but can't suffer to read his tripe.

Will is a fun one, he has a PhD in political philosophy and was for a time a professor. He was at one time a fairly genial if somewhat rigid commentator. Over the years, especially the last dozen or so he's gotten well a bit derpy.


I used to read his stuff occasionally, but I can't take him seriously. I swear he can't actually write about Obama's election without using the phrase "apotheosis of Obama". The world has passed him by.
 
2013-08-29 04:04:07 AM

goatleggedfellow: he phrase "apotheosis of Obama"


Yeah his word choices make him sound even worse over the last few years. And it's not so much that the world has passed him by so much as he just appears to have never really gained much sense of experience and over the years that builds up. It's as if he decided that only what's in books and academic journals is valid and anything that doesn't fit can just be dismissed.
 
2013-08-29 04:10:12 AM
Coates is wrong, and it's not debatable.  Racism isn't what produced single-parent households amongst blacks.  Lack of well-paying jobs for uneducated black men is.

The same phenomenon has affected Hispanic families, and now working class white families.  The biggest difference between poor blacks and poor whites is timing.  Working class whites are where poor blacks were 30 years ago, and 30 years from now, working class whites will be where poor blacks are today.

Daniel Patrick Moynihan predicted this decades in advance, with uncanny precision, which is why Ta-Nehisi Coates's inaccurate distortion of his views ("it's racism's fault") is so especially irritating.
 
2013-08-29 04:14:03 AM
I don't see anything in George Will's quote which is inaccurate, inflammatory, or off-the-mark.  In the year 2013, the breakdown of the black nuclear family, with its attendant effects, is more of a hardship than racism.
 
2013-08-29 04:15:14 AM

ad_rizzle: Rrotsky'd in the headline. Nice.


/sorry, pet peeve
 
2013-08-29 04:18:11 AM

WhyteRaven74: goatleggedfellow: he phrase "apotheosis of Obama"

Yeah his word choices make him sound even worse over the last few years. And it's not so much that the world has passed him by so much as he just appears to have never really gained much sense of experience and over the years that builds up. It's as if he decided that only what's in books and academic journals is valid and anything that doesn't fit can just be dismissed.


It's almost the definition of conservatism.
 
2013-08-29 05:00:24 AM
Alphax:  Didn't he write a column a few decades ago on the evils of blue jeans?

Decades?  Try 2009.

Edmund Burke [...] said: "To make us love our country, our country ought to be lovely." Ours would be much more so if supposed grown-ups would heed St. Paul's first letter to the Corinthians, and St. Barack's inaugural sermon to the Americans, by putting away childish things, starting with denim.
 
2013-08-29 05:26:21 AM

Captain Dan: I don't see anything in George Will's quote which is inaccurate, inflammatory, or off-the-mark.  In the year 2013, the breakdown of the black nuclear family, with its attendant effects, is more of a hardship than racism.


Well, he just cited a study (which is fifty years old, but okay) as evidence for his position that black Americans are messed up because of the breakdown of the family unit.  The conclusion of the study he cited (which is still very old and it's weird for him to not know anything more recent) is that racism is a major cause of that breakdown, a conclusion which he appears to reject without explanation.  It's nonsensical to say that racism is less important than "the breakdown of the black nuclear family," as they're interlinked.
 
2013-08-29 05:30:30 AM

Gyrfalcon: Let's all attack the typo in the headline and not savage Will for TOTALLY misrepresenting Moynihan, shall we?

The point that Will missed, in his haste to pillory blacks for all their single-mom households, which the article made and Farkers have ignored in their chortling over Subby's spelling error, is that Moynihan was quite right to note that racism in America is pretty much directly responsible for black women having to raise kids all on their own while their men are incarcerated or otherwise absent. A fact which Will apparently disregarded or deliberately chose to ignore.

You may now return to feeling superior because you know the difference between "cite" and "site."


So basically everything Will said was correct, his error was in omitting the "because", as in because of the  abuses of African Americans in American history.

In other words, there was no error at all, just more stupid liberals interested in who to blame for a problem as opposed to how their "solutions" are making the problem worse.

Because of slavery, somehow the number of stable nuclear black families has declined precipitously since 1960.  It has nothing to do with idiot liberals and their idiot policies that encourage single motherhood and marginalize fatherhood.  It has nothing to do with putting leaders like Al Sharpton on a pedestal, leaders who  don't really care what the real problem is or how to promote individual responsibility.
No sir.

What a bunch of dumbasses.
You can spend your life worrying about "because" and who to blame without solving a single problem.
 
2013-08-29 05:44:34 AM

Animatronik: It has nothing to do with idiot liberals and their idiot policies that encourage single motherhood and marginalize fatherhood.


Could you be more specific?
 
2013-08-29 05:47:21 AM
i915.photobucket.com
 
2013-08-29 05:48:31 AM

Animatronik: It has nothing to do with idiot liberals and their idiot policies that encourage single motherhood and marginalize fatherhood.


You realize television sit-coms are only partly based on fact?
 
2013-08-29 06:39:17 AM
People still read that cretin and care what he has to say about anything?

Been a resurgence of old white men publicly telling black folks what their problems are, it seems.
 
2013-08-29 06:51:15 AM

Animatronik: You can spend your life worrying about "because" and who to blame without solving a single problem.


How can you solve a problem without knowing its cause?
 
2013-08-29 06:52:29 AM
That's really not any more of a stretch than most academic citations and references.  I don't think he's intending to put words in the other dude's mouth, he's citing a particular fact from the study and adding his own conjecture.

There's plenty of reasons to think Will is a stupid farker, but this isn't really one of them.  At worst he's guilty of the separation between the reference and his extrapolation being somewhat unclear, which is always an issue when you're not footnoting and sometimes when you are.

//Grabbing conclusions from an article and using them to claim something very close to opposite what the paper was actually getting at is better than 99% of science reporting, because at least you're actually generally talking about the correct field of science.
 
2013-08-29 06:54:40 AM

TFerWannaBe: Animatronik: You can spend your life worrying about "because" and who to blame without solving a single problem.

How can you solve a problem without knowing its cause?


Tax cuts?
 
2013-08-29 06:56:21 AM

Animatronik: Gyrfalcon: Let's all attack the typo in the headline and not savage Will for TOTALLY misrepresenting Moynihan, shall we?

The point that Will missed, in his haste to pillory blacks for all their single-mom households, which the article made and Farkers have ignored in their chortling over Subby's spelling error, is that Moynihan was quite right to note that racism in America is pretty much directly responsible for black women having to raise kids all on their own while their men are incarcerated or otherwise absent. A fact which Will apparently disregarded or deliberately chose to ignore.

You may now return to feeling superior because you know the difference between "cite" and "site."

So basically everything Will said was correct, his error was in omitting the "because", as in because of the  abuses of African Americans in American history.

In other words, there was no error at all, just more stupid liberals interested in who to blame for a problem as opposed to how their "solutions" are making the problem worse.

Because of slavery, somehow the number of stable nuclear black families has declined precipitously since 1960.  It has nothing to do with idiot liberals and their idiot policies that encourage single motherhood and marginalize fatherhood.  It has nothing to do with putting leaders like Al Sharpton on a pedestal, leaders who  don't really care what the real problem is or how to promote individual responsibility.
No sir.

What a bunch of dumbasses.
Youworrying about "because" and who to blame without solving a single problem.


As opposed to you, who just want to blame everything on LIBSLIBSLIBS, and the only solution for anything is tax breaks for the wealthy and blaming victims?
 
2013-08-29 06:57:04 AM

TFerWannaBe: Animatronik: You can spend your life worrying about "because" and who to blame without solving a single problem.

How can you solve a problem without knowing its cause?


Invade Iraq?
 
2013-08-29 07:03:00 AM
Go back to ranting about how the DH will destroy western civilization, Goerge
 
2013-08-29 07:11:08 AM

Captain Dan: Coates is wrong, and it's not debatable.  Racism isn't what produced single-parent households amongst blacks.  Lack of well-paying jobs for uneducated black men is.


You should read the comments under the article. Denying the importance of racism as a factor is itself a form of racism. Will and his ilk are, consciously or not, pushing the idea that black Americans are the source of their own problems.

Do you really believe that the lack of education among black men had absolutely nothing to do with racism? Or that discriminatory hiring practices had nothing to do with the fact that uneducated white men still fared better than uneducated black men?
 
2013-08-29 07:13:28 AM

Captain Dan: Coates is wrong, and it's not debatable.  Racism isn't what produced single-parent households amongst blacks.  Lack of well-paying jobs for uneducated black men is.

The same phenomenon has affected Hispanic families, and now working class white families.  The biggest difference between poor blacks and poor whites is timing.  Working class whites are where poor blacks were 30 years ago, and 30 years from now, working class whites will be where poor blacks are today.

Daniel Patrick Moynihan predicted this decades in advance, with uncanny precision, which is why Ta-Nehisi Coates's inaccurate distortion of his views ("it's racism's fault") is so especially irritating.


Why the 30 year discrepancy between blacks and people of other skin pigmentation if not racism?  Your'e saying that young black men, who first learn how to respond and react to authority before even learning how to read and thus obviously at fault for failing to meet education standards, lacking employment opportunities that offer livable wages, opportunities, and successes, 30 years earlier than the rest of society, isn't because of racism?  

Along with focusing on a typo, this thread is also missing the part of the actual findings (not Will's misinterpretation) that's going to catch up to a lot more people real soon:  our culture (for some reason) still clings to the idea of male domination, of work and home, and even though women have made a lot of progress in the workplace, they've been running homes and families much longer, and yet somehow their children are considered disadvantaged.  While fewer in occurrence, single fathers are commended, and you'd never hear "the problem is no mother around for a woman's influence" (unless it was in regards to some sexist stereotype like domestic skills)
 
2013-08-29 07:17:37 AM

Animatronik: You can spend your life worrying about "because" and who to blame without solving a single problem.


Or you could do both, but then you have nothing left to do during the weekend.
 
2013-08-29 07:20:02 AM

TFerWannaBe: Animatronik: You can spend your life worrying about "because" and who to blame without solving a single problem.

How can you solve a problem without knowing its cause?


I'd rather spend my whole life worrying about 'because' than waste my whole life assuming liberalism is the cause of every bad thing in the universe when, in fact, 'liberalism' is the only mindset in the entirety of human history that has ever actually solved a problem and/or advanced civilization.

Animatronik, your entire post is based on the wholly-unfounded assumption that American blacks have ever had a history of significant percentages of 'stable households'. You're confusing an increase of reporting with an increase in actuality, man.
 
2013-08-29 07:20:34 AM
anyone notice that subby said "sites" instead of "cites"?

/pet peave
 
2013-08-29 07:22:38 AM
Will quoted moynihan's accurate comments regarding the problem of illegitimacy and single parenthood, while ignoring moynihan's incorrect assessment of why the problem occurred. At least in Will's opinion.

I don't see the problem.
 
2013-08-29 07:28:40 AM

Gyrfalcon: is that Moynihan was quite right to note that racism in America is pretty much directly responsible for black women having to raise kids all on their own while their men are incarcerated or otherwise absent.


Moynihan claiming that it's so doesn't make it so. Maybe racism is responsible. Maybe it's not, and black men are incarcerated or otherwise absent because many of them want to lead lifestyles which are ill-adapted to fatherhood in western democracies. Maybe it's both.
 
2013-08-29 07:29:22 AM
"Look, darkies, you lazy shiftless but still highly attractive and successful people. Racism is over, let it go. Now go scuttle back to your ghetto and stop selling the mary-jew-one-ah!"
 
2013-08-29 07:33:02 AM
Will has also fallen into the trap of suffered only by the painfully WASPy of appearing in public in trousers with little duck embroidered on them.
 
2013-08-29 07:33:44 AM

proteus_b: Gyrfalcon: is that Moynihan was quite right to note that racism in America is pretty much directly responsible for black women having to raise kids all on their own while their men are incarcerated or otherwise absent.

Moynihan claiming that it's so doesn't make it so. Maybe racism is responsible. Maybe it's not, and black men are incarcerated or otherwise absent because many of them want to lead lifestyles which are ill-adapted to fatherhood in western democracies. Maybe it's both.


So you are saying that it's not racism, it's just that blacks are inferior to whites. Got it.
 
2013-08-29 07:35:29 AM

TFerWannaBe: Animatronik: You can spend your life worrying about "because" and who to blame without solving a single problem.

How can you solve a problem without knowing its cause?


1) Ban birth control. Ban abortion. Abstinence-only edumakashun.  Defund Planned Parenthood.
2) Wonder why so many out of wedlock births.
3) Abolish food stamps. That'll larn them Welfare Queens. (The Welfare Queens with the babies, of course, not the ones with the zillion-dollar contracts with the Small Government®.)
4) Ship all the well-paying jobs overseas.
5) Gut the public schools. You don't need no edumakashun to work a McJob, and teachers are Union Thugs (except when the NRA wants to arm them).
6) Hike taxes on people who work for a living. Cut them on the plutocrats. Abolish the minimum wage. David Koch's Mercedes is six months old and he wants a new one.
7) Wonder why so many people break the law instead of starving quietly, or getting a McJob for take-home pay that won't take them home.
8) zOMG CRIME WAVE!
9) Zillion-dollar Small Government® contracts for private prisons and purveyors of riot gear.
10) No ??? here, baby.
11) Profit!
 
2013-08-29 07:43:34 AM

Lost Thought 00: proteus_b: Gyrfalcon: is that Moynihan was quite right to note that racism in America is pretty much directly responsible for black women having to raise kids all on their own while their men are incarcerated or otherwise absent.

Moynihan claiming that it's so doesn't make it so. Maybe racism is responsible. Maybe it's not, and black men are incarcerated or otherwise absent because many of them want to lead lifestyles which are ill-adapted to fatherhood in western democracies. Maybe it's both.

So you are saying that it's not racism, it's just that blacks are inferior to whites. Got it.


If many more black men than white men do indeed want to lead lifestyles which are ill-adapted to fatherhood, why would it be racist to point that out?
 
2013-08-29 07:51:52 AM

Debeo Summa Credo: Lost Thought 00: proteus_b: Gyrfalcon: is that Moynihan was quite right to note that racism in America is pretty much directly responsible for black women having to raise kids all on their own while their men are incarcerated or otherwise absent.

Moynihan claiming that it's so doesn't make it so. Maybe racism is responsible. Maybe it's not, and black men are incarcerated or otherwise absent because many of them want to lead lifestyles which are ill-adapted to fatherhood in western democracies. Maybe it's both.

So you are saying that it's not racism, it's just that blacks are inferior to whites. Got it.

If many more black men than white men do indeed want to lead lifestyles which are ill-adapted to fatherhood, why would it be racist to point that out?


Because you assume that the color of their skin defines their character.
 
2013-08-29 07:57:57 AM

Kevin72: Triumph: Subby has fallen into that old elementary school trap of confusing "cites" and "sites."

See: sights.


See:  shay rights

d2948ivoqgnz9i.cloudfront.net
 
2013-08-29 08:07:16 AM

TFerWannaBe: Animatronik: You can spend your life worrying about "because" and who to blame without solving a single problem.

How can you solve a problem without knowing its cause?


Build a wall around Mexico
 
2013-08-29 08:10:29 AM

Jim_Callahan: That's really not any more of a stretch than most academic citations and references.  I don't think he's intending to put words in the other dude's mouth, he's citing a particular fact from the study and adding his own conjecture.

There's plenty of reasons to think Will is a stupid farker, but this isn't really one of them.  At worst he's guilty of the separation between the reference and his extrapolation being somewhat unclear, which is always an issue when you're not footnoting and sometimes when you are.

//Grabbing conclusions from an article and using them to claim something very close to opposite what the paper was actually getting at is better than 99% of science reporting, because at least you're actually generally talking about the correct field of science.


For a while, I believed in the myth that science reporting was especially bad.

Then I realized ALL reporting was especially bad for largely the same reasons.
 
2013-08-29 08:12:17 AM

Lost Thought 00: proteus_b: Gyrfalcon: is that Moynihan was quite right to note that racism in America is pretty much directly responsible for black women having to raise kids all on their own while their men are incarcerated or otherwise absent.

Moynihan claiming that it's so doesn't make it so. Maybe racism is responsible. Maybe it's not, and black men are incarcerated or otherwise absent because many of them want to lead lifestyles which are ill-adapted to fatherhood in western democracies. Maybe it's both.

So you are saying that it's not racism, it's just that blacks are inferior to whites. Got it.


Fark really is becoming more like Stormfront.
 
2013-08-29 08:18:32 AM
Does anyone happen to know the rate of unmarried women giving birth in the social hellhole that is Scandinavia?  I believe it's rather high.
 
2013-08-29 08:19:18 AM
Debeo Summa Credo
If many more black men than white men do indeed want to lead lifestyles which are ill-adapted to fatherhood, why would it be racist to point that out?

Hmm... I see.

Well, since you're so good at reading people's minds: where did I leave my car keys; going to be late for work.
 
2013-08-29 08:19:57 AM

TFerWannaBe: Animatronik: You can spend your life worrying about "because" and who to blame without solving a single problem.

How can you solve a problem without knowing its cause?


By lowering taxes?
 
2013-08-29 08:28:40 AM

Animatronik: You can spend your life worrying about "because" and who to blame without solving a single problem.


A repube is driving down the road and gets a flat tire.
He stops the car, replaces the tire, and starts on his way, except before the car even gets up to speed, he gets another flat.

With all bootstrappyness, he gets out, pulls out a can of sealant, gets a temporary seal, pumps up the tire and is ready to go again.

This happens 4 more times.

A liberal pulls up and asks why the repube doesn't sweep away the glass that is putting holes in the tires.

The repube answers "You can spend your life worrying about "because" and who to blame without solving a single problem. "
 
2013-08-29 08:33:05 AM

vygramul: Fark really is becoming more like Stormfront.


The thing is, conservatives are in a bit of a pickle. Since they are committed to assuming that racism is over and that racism has had no lasting effects in our society, they are left with very few alternative explanations for the problems within the black community. Essentially, all of their arguments, when you boil them down to their essence, are based in the assumption that blacks are inferior in some way. Of course, they obfuscate and bullshiat to hide this, but it's pretty obvious to anyone paying attention.
 
2013-08-29 08:34:25 AM
fta
"There is, presumably, no special reason why a society in which males are dominant in family relationships is to be preferred to a matriarchal arrangement. However, it is clearly a disadvantage for a minority group to be operating on one principle, while the great majority of the population, and the one with the most advantages to begin with, is operating on another. This is the present situation of the Negro. Ours is a society which presumes male leadership in private and public affairs. The arrangements of society facilitate such leadership and reward it. A subculture, such as that of the Negro American, in which this is not the pattern, is placed at a distinct disadvantage."


i707.photobucket.com
 
2013-08-29 09:25:03 AM

WhyteRaven74: goatleggedfellow: I'm curious, but can't suffer to read his tripe.

Will is a fun one, he has a PhD in political philosophy and was for a time a professor. He was at one time a fairly genial if somewhat rigid commentator. Over the years, especially the last dozen or so he's gotten well a bit derpy.


There's gold in that there derp!
 
2013-08-29 09:40:44 AM
My racism is responsible for 70% illegitimacy, rampant crime and drug use, and high unemployment. None of those things can possibly be the black man's fault.

And, I broke the dam.
 
2013-08-29 09:44:55 AM

sxacho: TFerWannaBe: Animatronik: You can spend your life worrying about "because" and who to blame without solving a single problem.

How can you solve a problem without knowing its cause?

Tax cuts?


+10 internets for you.
 
2013-08-29 09:52:49 AM
If the US Government hadn't passed out smallpox blankets to all the Indians, George Will wouldn't even have a job.
 
2013-08-29 09:55:54 AM

cchris_39: My racism is responsible for 70% illegitimacy, rampant crime and drug use, and high unemployment. None of those things can possibly be the black man's fault.


Maybe if you (and other Whites) were willing to hire Black men, they wouldn't have some of the other problems?

http://www.nber.org/digest/sep03/w9873.html
 
2013-08-29 09:56:48 AM

Jim_Callahan: That's really not any more of a stretch than most academic citations and references.  I don't think he's intending to put words in the other dude's mouth, he's citing a particular fact from the study and adding his own conjecture.

There's plenty of reasons to think Will is a stupid farker, but this isn't really one of them.  At worst he's guilty of the separation between the reference and his extrapolation being somewhat unclear, which is always an issue when you're not footnoting and sometimes when you are.

//Grabbing conclusions from an article and using them to claim something very close to opposite what the paper was actually getting at is better than 99% of science reporting, because at least you're actually generally talking about the correct field of science.


This.
 
2013-08-29 10:02:59 AM

vygramul: Lost Thought 00: proteus_b: Gyrfalcon: is that Moynihan was quite right to note that racism in America is pretty much directly responsible for black women having to raise kids all on their own while their men are incarcerated or otherwise absent.

Moynihan claiming that it's so doesn't make it so. Maybe racism is responsible. Maybe it's not, and black men are incarcerated or otherwise absent because many of them want to lead lifestyles which are ill-adapted to fatherhood in western democracies. Maybe it's both.

So you are saying that it's not racism, it's just that blacks are inferior to whites. Got it.

Fark really is becoming more like Stormfront.


Seriously. I don't know what it was like back in the earliest days. But it has become pretty common to see posts that outright say "black people are worse than white people." Maybe it's just part of the larger trend of people, particularly on the right side of the political spectrum, becoming more and more stupid, and proud of it.
 
2013-08-29 10:22:13 AM

someonelse: vygramul: Lost Thought 00: proteus_b: Gyrfalcon: is that Moynihan was quite right to note that racism in America is pretty much directly responsible for black women having to raise kids all on their own while their men are incarcerated or otherwise absent.

Moynihan claiming that it's so doesn't make it so. Maybe racism is responsible. Maybe it's not, and black men are incarcerated or otherwise absent because many of them want to lead lifestyles which are ill-adapted to fatherhood in western democracies. Maybe it's both.

So you are saying that it's not racism, it's just that blacks are inferior to whites. Got it.

Fark really is becoming more like Stormfront.

Seriously. I don't know what it was like back in the earliest days. But it has become pretty common to see posts that outright say "black people are worse than white people." Maybe it's just part of the larger trend of people, particularly on the right side of the political spectrum, becoming more and more stupid, and proud of it.


The Overton Window is being pushed hard right and exploiting the "cultural conservatives"  to do that against their own economic interests requires the window to carry along some of the ugly emotional baggage required to exploit "cultural conservatives".
 
2013-08-29 10:30:42 AM
Accurate interpretations of studies has never been a strength of politicians or pundits regardless of party. Pick the line(s) that best support your thesis and run with it seems to be more the mode of operation.
 
2013-08-29 11:11:10 AM
That little Himmler homunculus has been getting worse in the past couple years.
 
2013-08-29 11:24:38 AM

FLMountainMan: If the US Government hadn't passed out smallpox blankets to all the Indians, George Will wouldn't even have a job.


Wow, this myth has really gotten alot of mileage. There is one documented instance of anything like this even being considered, and it comes from letters in a colonial war prior to the US even being formed. Indians does of smallpox, yes, but that was naturally transmitted via proximity and trade.

Fark is becoming more and more radically anti-white every day. Just a few years ago there was some balance, but the anti-white racists seem to be taking over lately.
 
2013-08-29 11:27:58 AM

cchris_39: My racism is responsible for 70% illegitimacy, rampant crime and drug use, and high unemployment. None of those things can possibly be the black man's fault.

And, I broke the dam.


Personal responsibility is NEVER the answer. Why blame yourself for your own situation if you can find an excuse that will allow you to blame others?
 
2013-08-29 11:28:06 AM

Debeo Summa Credo: FLMountainMan: If the US Government hadn't passed out smallpox blankets to all the Indians, George Will wouldn't even have a job.

Wow, this myth has really gotten alot of mileage. There is one documented instance of anything like this even being considered, and it comes from letters in a colonial war prior to the US even being formed. Indians does of smallpox, yes, but that was naturally transmitted via proximity and trade.

Fark is becoming more and more radically anti-white every day. Just a few years ago there was some balance, but the anti-white racists seem to be taking over lately.


Why does it not surprise me that you gleefully endorse genocide?
 
2013-08-29 11:31:56 AM
So what about the white people being born out of wedlock?  It's 36%, that was when it was declared a crisis in the African-American community.  It has more to do with poverty, education, and age than anything else.  It is a symptom of our society.
 
2013-08-29 11:33:32 AM
This vituperative exegesis, simultaneously accruing into self-aggrandizing miasma, with the palaverous thrum from the emasculated backbenchers, suggests at once a schism of the cataclysmic conservatism and the emerging state of faux freedom, tending to limn the rubric of calumny, inapposite with the intent of the Founders and damning the judiciary, waxing an affront to the rule of law.
 
2013-08-29 11:49:55 AM
Yes, Mr. Will. Please WASPsplain how the ills afflicting the black community are of their own making and not symptoms of a greater problem
 
2013-08-29 11:51:49 AM

Debeo Summa Credo: Wow, this myth has really gotten alot of mileage. There is one documented instance of anything like this even being considered, and it comes from letters in a colonial war prior to the US even being formed.


I'm sure the attitude that Native Americans are subhumans to be exterminated (as casually expressed in that documented instance) completely disappeared after the mid-18th century and in no way manifested itself in official or unofficial U.S. government policy.

/radically anti-white. Oh, the lulz, they are being lolled.
 
2013-08-29 11:58:31 AM

twat_waffle: Yes, Mr. Will. Please WASPsplain how the ills afflicting the black community are of their own making and not symptoms of a greater problem


I believe the word you're looking for is 'Honksplain', not 'WASPsplain'. That just hurts to say out loud, imho.
 
2013-08-29 11:59:27 AM

Debeo Summa Credo: Fark is becoming more and more radically anti-white every day. Just a few years ago there was some balance, but the anti-white

racists seem to be taking over lately.

It's all part of the master plan concocted by the infamous Race Hustlers  Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, and enacted by the extremely racist Barack HUSSEIN 0bama


cdn.laprogressive.com

Poor you. It must be so hard being white these days.
 
2013-08-29 12:00:41 PM

rickythepenguin: This vituperative exegesis, simultaneously accruing into self-aggrandizing miasma, with the palaverous thrum from the emasculated backbenchers, suggests at once a schism of the cataclysmic conservatism and the emerging state of faux freedom, tending to limn the rubric of calumny, inapposite with the intent of the Founders and damning the judiciary, waxing an affront to the rule of law.


It's like poop, but made out of words!

/Well done
 
2013-08-29 12:00:51 PM

Debeo Summa Credo: Personal responsibility is NEVER the answer.


Not to the questions contemporary conservatives are asking. To take responsibility, you have to have the opportunity, and with the same face that cries "Bootstraps!" the conservatives try to take away those opportunities. Gutting worker protections, education funding, and now voting rights takes opportunity away from the poor, and with minorities they have the added cudgel of racism.
 
2013-08-29 12:06:02 PM

talan123: So what about the white people being born out of wedlock?  It's 36%, that was when it was declared a crisis in the African-American community.  It has more to do with poverty, education, and age than anything else.  It is a symptom of our society.


You misread your link. It's 26% for Whites, 36% overall.
 
2013-08-29 12:25:21 PM

BMulligan: Debeo Summa Credo: FLMountainMan: If the US Government hadn't passed out smallpox blankets to all the Indians, George Will wouldn't even have a job.

Wow, this myth has really gotten alot of mileage. There is one documented instance of anything like this even being considered, and it comes from letters in a colonial war prior to the US even being formed. Indians does of smallpox, yes, but that was naturally transmitted via proximity and trade.

Fark is becoming more and more radically anti-white every day. Just a few years ago there was some balance, but the anti-white racists seem to be taking over lately.

Why does it not surprise me that you gleefully endorse genocide?


Why does it not surprise me that you would make such a comically stupid inference from my post?
 
2013-08-29 12:26:51 PM

Sergeant Grumbles: Debeo Summa Credo: Personal responsibility is NEVER the answer.

Not to the questions contemporary conservatives are asking. To take responsibility, you have to have the opportunity, and with the same face that cries "Bootstraps!" the conservatives try to take away those opportunities. Gutting worker protections, education funding, and now voting rights takes opportunity away from the poor, and with minorities they have the added cudgel of racism.


Like I said, finding excuses to blame others for your own failings.
 
2013-08-29 12:44:50 PM

themadtupper: Alphax:  Didn't he write a column a few decades ago on the evils of blue jeans?

Decades?  Try 2009.

Edmund Burke [...] said: "To make us love our country, our country ought to be lovely." Ours would be much more so if supposed grown-ups would heed St. Paul's first letter to the Corinthians, and St. Barack's inaugural sermon to the Americans, by putting away childish things, starting with denim.


Okay, George, I'll put away my blue jeans if you put away your baseball.

/Don't really like denim, anyway.
 
2013-08-29 12:53:29 PM

IlGreven: themadtupper: Alphax:  Didn't he write a column a few decades ago on the evils of blue jeans?

Decades?  Try 2009.

Edmund Burke [...] said: "To make us love our country, our country ought to be lovely." Ours would be much more so if supposed grown-ups would heed St. Paul's first letter to the Corinthians, and St. Barack's inaugural sermon to the Americans, by putting away childish things, starting with denim.

Okay, George, I'll put away my blue jeans if you put away your baseball.

/Don't really like denim, anyway.


I wonder if pictures of Reagan in blue jeans make Will go fetal.
 
2013-08-29 12:54:19 PM

Debeo Summa Credo: FLMountainMan: If the US Government hadn't passed out smallpox blankets to all the Indians, George Will wouldn't even have a job.

Wow, this myth has really gotten alot of mileage. There is one documented instance of anything like this even being considered, and it comes from letters in a colonial war prior to the US even being formed. Indians does of smallpox, yes, but that was naturally transmitted via proximity and trade.

Fark is becoming more and more radically anti-white every day. Just a few years ago there was some balance, but the anti-white racists seem to be taking over lately.


You missed my point more than FDR proudly embraced Jesse Owens after he beat Hitler's ass in the 1936 Olympics.
 
2013-08-29 01:06:21 PM

Debeo Summa Credo: Like I said, finding excuses to blame others for your own failings.


Except they're not your own failings. 30 years of stagnant wages is not a personal failing. Crumbing elementary education infrastructure is not a personal failing. Outrageous secondary education costs are not a personal failing. Systemic racism is not a personal failing. No amount of conservative harping about bootstraps and the dignity of work are going to change that, no matter how much they disparage the poor for their refrigerators.
 
2013-08-29 01:28:18 PM
Debeo Summa Credo
Fark is becoming more and more radically anti-white every day.

No, it's cool. Some of my closest friends are white.
 
2013-08-29 02:01:28 PM

Debeo Summa Credo: Fark is becoming more and more radically anti-white every day.


...wake me when the white lynchings begin.
 
2013-08-29 02:42:11 PM

Ctrl-Alt-Del: Debeo Summa Credo: Fark is becoming more and more radically anti-white every day. Just a few years ago there was some balance, but the anti-white racists seem to be taking over lately.

It's all part of the master plan concocted by the infamous Race Hustlers  Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, and enacted by the extremely racist Barack HUSSEIN 0bama


[cdn.laprogressive.com image 350x358]

Poor you. It must be so hard being white these days.


He only said that because of my Stormfront comment.
 
2013-08-29 06:18:00 PM

MusicMakeMyHeadPound: Debeo Summa Credo
Fark is becoming more and more radically anti-white every day.

No, it's cool. Some of my closest friends are white.


Hell I even married a white woman.
 
2013-08-29 06:26:57 PM
Do Jews and/or Irish count as white people these days?
Never been clear on that, but as a Paddy O'Mally O'Schoenberg, I often wonder where I stand.
 
2013-08-29 07:47:37 PM

AdrienVeidt: twat_waffle: Yes, Mr. Will. Please WASPsplain how the ills afflicting the black community are of their own making and not symptoms of a greater problem

I believe the word you're looking for is 'Honksplain', not 'WASPsplain'. That just hurts to say out loud, imho.


WASPsplain is for rich white guys. Honksplain sounds like it's white trash doing the horribly out of touch explanation.
 
2013-08-29 07:55:23 PM

WhyteRaven74: goatleggedfellow: he phrase "apotheosis of Obama"

Yeah his word choices make him sound even worse over the last few years. And it's not so much that the world has passed him by so much as he just appears to have never really gained much sense of experience and over the years that builds up. It's as if he decided that only what's in books and academic journals is valid and anything that doesn't fit can just be dismissed.


And baseball. Don't forget baseball.
 
2013-08-30 12:10:24 AM
I wear blue jeans now if only to piss off the Republitards.

/Hey, at least I don't vote based on this.
 
2013-08-30 03:53:41 AM

cchris_39: My racism


At least you admit it.
 
2013-08-30 03:57:18 AM

Debeo Summa Credo: cchris_39: My racism is responsible for 70% illegitimacy, rampant crime and drug use, and high unemployment. None of those things can possibly be the black man's fault.

And, I broke the dam.

Personal responsibility is NEVER the answer. Why blame yourself for your own situation if you can find an excuse that will allow you to blame others?


In individual cases, yes. But when everything doesn't line up the way it should statistically, that means there's a reason. Seriously, pick up a book.
 
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