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(ESPN)   Thanks to 49ers' Joe "I take cheapshots in the preseason", the NFL is about to ban tackling below the thigh   (espn.go.com) divider line 42
    More: Asinine, NFL, thighs, Dustin Keller, knees  
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1697 clicks; posted to Sports » on 28 Aug 2013 at 11:37 AM (33 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



42 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-08-28 11:31:00 AM
Yeah, Subby, it's totally asinine that they would want to prevent things like this:
cbssports.com
Not being able to hit a guy in the knee while he's looking elsewhere and you're 10 yards from the ball is what's ruining football.
 
2013-08-28 11:45:54 AM
All tackling should be done above the knee and below the shoulders.. both due to proper technique and safety.
 
2013-08-28 11:46:27 AM
Subby missed a word.
 
2013-08-28 11:48:41 AM
While we're at it, we'll have a balloon instead of a ball, and whoever catches the balloon tries to run while all the other players hug!
 
2013-08-28 11:49:25 AM

MugzyBrown: All tackling should be done above the knee and below the shoulders.. both due to proper technique and safety.


Agree.  Still remember watching this one live:
cdn.lastangryfan.com

/49ers fan
 
2013-08-28 11:52:20 AM

Theaetetus: Yeah, Subby, it's totally asinine that they would want to prevent things like this:
[640x250 from http://cbssports.com/images/blogs/looney-knee-hit-williams.jpg image 640x250]
Not being able to hit a guy in the knee while he's looking elsewhere and you're 10 yards from the ball is what's ruining football.


I'll have to disagree with that last part ... knocking someone on their butt when they're ten yards away from your running back who is still running up-field is the correct thing to do in that situation - just not that way.
 
2013-08-28 11:52:52 AM

Theaetetus: Yeah, Subby, it's totally asinine that they would want to prevent things like this:
[640x250 from http://cbssports.com/images/blogs/looney-knee-hit-williams.jpg image 640x250]
Not being able to hit a guy in the knee while he's looking elsewhere and you're 10 yards from the ball is what's ruining football.


They still need to be able to hit them somewhere.  The problem is that low blocks are already  illegal.  The proposed rule change is about defenseless players.  Tackling is supposed to be about wrapping up the legs.  That would be a penalty if the rule changes.  The defense should be allowed to prevent receptions by hitting the receiver as he catches the ball.  Legal tackles are getting harder and harder
 
2013-08-28 11:55:23 AM

spiderpaz: Agree. Still remember watching this one live:


yup.  Nap almost died to massive internal blood loss.  an artery got severed / severly lacerated in the process of that destruction, and the dude almost bled out.

that was also one where ABC kept showing it over and over and over and over and over and over and over and i kinda recall Al Michaels, even, at one point chastising the proverbial guys in the truck.  "OK fellas, ok, alright, we've seen it enough, you can stop now, mmmmmohkay?"
 
2013-08-28 11:56:36 AM

satanorsanta: Theaetetus: Yeah, Subby, it's totally asinine that they would want to prevent things like this:
[640x250 from http://cbssports.com/images/blogs/looney-knee-hit-williams.jpg image 640x250]
Not being able to hit a guy in the knee while he's looking elsewhere and you're 10 yards from the ball is what's ruining football.

They still need to be able to hit them somewhere.  The problem is that low blocks are already  illegal.  The proposed rule change is about defenseless players.  Tackling is supposed to be about wrapping up the legs.  That would be a penalty if the rule changes.  The defense should be allowed to prevent receptions by hitting the receiver as he catches the ball.  Legal tackles are getting harder and harder


What proposed change?
 
2013-08-28 11:57:06 AM
It's not that hard to tackle properly. Problem is that the NFL players get stuck in "JACKED UP!" highlight mode in High School, and never get taught otherwise. Because making SportsCenter for a big hit can make the difference between being a 1st round selection or never even getting invited to an NFL camp.
 
2013-08-28 12:01:01 PM
too many players go for the big hit, not the big tackle.

Do it like rugby, you have to wrap up and take the guy to the ground or he gets back up and goes. Or make it a penalty for not wrapping up. That takes care of 85% of this garbage.
 
2013-08-28 12:03:01 PM

spiderpaz: Theaetetus: Yeah, Subby, it's totally asinine that they would want to prevent things like this:
[640x250 from http://cbssports.com/images/blogs/looney-knee-hit-williams.jpg image 640x250]
Not being able to hit a guy in the knee while he's looking elsewhere and you're 10 yards from the ball is what's ruining football.

I'll have to disagree with that last part ... knocking someone on their butt when they're ten yards away from your running back who is still running up-field is the correct thing to do in that situation - just not that way.


I disagree with how you split the sentence up in your bolding. I'd have no problem if Looney hit him in the chest and knocked him on his ass. I disagree with diving at the guy's knee, particularly while he's got his head turned and doesn't know to even attempt to dodge.
 
2013-08-28 12:04:37 PM

satanorsanta: Theaetetus: Yeah, Subby, it's totally asinine that they would want to prevent things like this:
[640x250 from http://cbssports.com/images/blogs/looney-knee-hit-williams.jpg image 640x250]
Not being able to hit a guy in the knee while he's looking elsewhere and you're 10 yards from the ball is what's ruining football.

They still need to be able to hit them somewhere.  The problem is that low blocks are already  illegal.


Joe Looney's low hit on Kevin Williams legal, NFL says
The NFL agreed with the opinion of San Francisco 49ers guard Joe Looney: His hit on Minnesota Vikings defensive tackle Kevin Williams was not a "dirty" play. It wasn't illegal at all, an NFL spokesman confirmed Tuesday to NFL.com and NFL Network.
 
2013-08-28 12:05:32 PM
It wasn't a tackle, it was a block, away from the action and clearly done to hit someone below the waist. It should have been illegal to begin with, no new rule needed.
 
2013-08-28 12:07:38 PM
meh, why are we pretending to care now?  football has always been a gladiator sport.  that's why it's going to go the way of boxing...
 
2013-08-28 12:16:29 PM

Theaetetus: spiderpaz: Theaetetus: Yeah, Subby, it's totally asinine that they would want to prevent things like this:
[640x250 from http://cbssports.com/images/blogs/looney-knee-hit-williams.jpg image 640x250]
Not being able to hit a guy in the knee while he's looking elsewhere and you're 10 yards from the ball is what's ruining football.

I'll have to disagree with that last part ... knocking someone on their butt when they're ten yards away from your running back who is still running up-field is the correct thing to do in that situation - just not that way.

I disagree with how you split the sentence up in your bolding. I'd have no problem if Looney hit him in the chest and knocked him on his ass. I disagree with diving at the guy's knee, particularly while he's got his head turned and doesn't know to even attempt to dodge.


Didn't Warren Sap paralyze a guy by doing something like this, just pushing on his shoulder to knock him down while the play was 20 yards away on the other side of the field?
 
2013-08-28 12:24:45 PM

A Fark Handle: meh, why are we pretending to care now?  football has always been a gladiator sport.  that's why it's going to go the way of boxing...


Watch the hit, its not some big highlight reel shot on a reciever or running back. Its a dirty low block away from the action to someone who isn't even paying attention.

This isn't some over protective "man they are making the NFL Pussy" he-man bullshiat, its trying to stop assholes from going low on someone to mess up their career in preseason. I'm still mystified why the NFL considered this a legal hit yet fined that bear for his week 2 highlight reel slam.
 
2013-08-28 12:25:15 PM
Head shots can cause brain injuries that lead to premature death

Knee shots lead to guys not being able to play a game

Of the 2, I know which one is more concerning to me as a fan

Low blocks are already illegal.    But if we try to regulate that all tackles are to be done at waist level, we will dramatically swing  the game in favor of the offense
 
2013-08-28 12:28:40 PM
Why don't we just do away with pre-season football?
Why risk your team in an exhibition game?
 
2013-08-28 12:29:36 PM
If you listen to fans and pundits, every rule change over the last fifty years has meant the end of the NFL. And yet here we are. Please pardon me if I don't buy into the doomsayers' predictions this time around.
 
2013-08-28 12:40:21 PM

SenorBenedict: mess up their career in preseason


maybe they shouldn't have preseason games.  no one, other than the greedy ass owners, want them.

/it was a low block.  but it was a block.
 
2013-08-28 12:50:37 PM

A Fark Handle: no one, other than the greedy ass owners, want them.


Undrafted players, free agents, journeymen, and practice squad players trying to make the regular season roster all depend on the pre-season to varying degrees.
 
2013-08-28 12:56:14 PM

SenorBenedict: A Fark Handle: meh, why are we pretending to care now?  football has always been a gladiator sport.  that's why it's going to go the way of boxing...

Watch the hit, its not some big highlight reel shot on a reciever or running back. Its a dirty low block away from the action to someone who isn't even paying attention.

This isn't some over protective "man they are making the NFL Pussy" he-man bullshiat, its trying to stop assholes from going low on someone to mess up their career in preseason. I'm still mystified why the NFL considered this a legal hit yet fined that bear for his week 2 highlight reel slam.


I used to be a Broncos fan before the Panthers existed, and I'll be the first one to say cut-blocking needs to be outlawed.
 
2013-08-28 12:57:38 PM

kronicfeld: Undrafted players, free agents, journeymen, and practice squad players trying to make the regular season roster all depend on the pre-season to varying degrees.



it is bizarre that i remember this, but over the weekend i was a chi-chi area of Phoenix and was 99% certain Roger Clyne was shopping next to me.  i was like, "whoa.....i gotta get a pic to send to ol' kronicfeld....is that really him?  how do i approach him?  i don't wanna be That Guy......"

and then the guy took off his hat, showing a pretty well-established male pattern baldness tonsure....yeah.  it wasn't your boy.

carry on.
 
2013-08-28 01:00:06 PM
Reflection of his coach.
 
2013-08-28 01:04:16 PM

weiserfireman: Head shots can cause brain injuries that lead to premature death

Knee shots lead to guys not being able to play a game

Of the 2, I know which one is more concerning to me as a fan

Low blocks are already illegal.    But if we try to regulate that all tackles are to be done at waist level, we will dramatically swing  the game in favor of the offense


The game is already dramatically biased towards the offense.
 
2013-08-28 01:30:54 PM
In the NFL that is called a "cut block", and it is a legal hit.  Even if you are away from the play, you keep going until the whistle blows.

Couple posts say all low blocks are illegal.  You're thinking of chop blocks where a guy is already engaged in a block and other player takes out his knees.  Those are very dangerous and very common.  They are already flagged (and fined IIRC).

Other say form tackles require the hit to be at the waist.  This is not really applicable to the subject as we are discussing blocks.  However, a good tackle can be made ant the knees.  If you wrap up the guys legs and hold, forward momentum should cease.
 
2013-08-28 01:49:18 PM
While in college ( a long time ago) a friend's brother who was an NFL center came to visit him. He gave us some pointers and one was how to hurt someone who was doing dirty tricks to you. As you hike the ball instead of first going for his knee, you put one hand on his foot and press down locking his cleats in the grass and almost simultaneously roll into the knee. That insures he can't move the leg and will take the full brunt of your body with his knee.
 
2013-08-28 02:08:49 PM
chuggernaught:However, a good tackle can be made ant the knees.  If you wrap up the guys legs and hold, forward momentum should cease.

If you tackle from the front, below the knee, then the knee will hinge in the wrong direction. You can tackle from behind below the knee and drag someone down just fine.
If you're tackling from the front or side, you should go above the knee.
 
2013-08-28 02:13:17 PM

kronicfeld: A Fark Handle: no one, other than the greedy ass owners, want them.

Undrafted players, free agents, journeymen, and practice squad players trying to make the regular season roster all depend on the pre-season to varying degrees.


yet teams in college and high school somehow manage to select and shape their rosters without pointless (but profitable) exhibition games.  i'm not saying nfl teams shouldn't practice, have camp, scrimmage, etc, i'm saying preseason games are farking worthless (except to the owners).
 
2013-08-28 02:21:53 PM
Golden Tate was fined $21,000 last year for blocking an LB who wasn't looking at him (despite the fact that he'd been covering Tate on Tate's route) and was actually moving TOWARD the play and hitting him in the chest.

This douchebag gets to dive into someone's knee in a position that had nothing to do with the play (first of all the RB was 10 yards away from the "block" and secondly, he was being tackled as he "blocked" Williams) and they call it a legal block. Suck San Francisco's dick some more, league.
 
2013-08-28 02:25:18 PM

A Fark Handle: yet teams in college and high school somehow manage to select and shape their rosters without pointless (but profitable) exhibition games.  i'm not saying nfl teams shouldn't practice, have camp, scrimmage, etc, i'm saying preseason games are farking worthless (except to the owners).


Teams in high school and college often do have scrimmages (or in BCS schools' case, they'll find a cupcake for Week 1). Those colleges also have rosters that are larger than NFL teams start with before preseason, so they don't really have to worry about choosing only those who are ready to contribute.
 
2013-08-28 02:54:16 PM

IAmRight: Suck San Francisco's dick some more, league.


I frequently enjoy your staunchly partisan take on things. But you are utterly ruled by your fandom - I'm pretty sure you'd argue 180 degrees in the other direction had a seahawk been involved. At least you are consistent.
 
2013-08-28 03:10:57 PM

JohnBigBootay: I frequently enjoy your staunchly partisan take on things. But you are utterly ruled by your fandom - I'm pretty sure you'd argue 180 degrees in the other direction had a seahawk been involved. At least you are consistent.


I don't think I'd switch when the results are:

Option 1: Guy hits nearest defender (also, "his" man) in the chest (despite giving up 30-40 lbs to him) to help set the edge for his QB, who has broken the pocket and needs to get up field. Lee was not injured despite having the wind knocked out of him.
Option 2: Guy hits nearest defender by diving at his knee (despite being an offensive lineman and the same size as the defender) while defender is barely moving and his teammate is being tackled by two other guys in the backfield. Williams was injured. In a f*cking preseason game. With the 49ers already up 2 TDs.

Hell, I'd give James Harrison more of a benefit of the doubt were it not for his attitude about everything and his steadfast commitment to continuing to hit people in the head.

/the only guy who would do this would be Giacomini and most Seahawks fans think he's kind of a douche. But he also gets penalized heavily for doing such things
 
2013-08-28 04:24:30 PM
There are two things driving these changes, and neither one are direct concerns for player safety.  They are money and money.

The first "money" is about protecting the investment these teams have in offensive players.  They generally (and in the case of Q-backs, are definitely), the most expense players on the team.  So owners (and by extension the league) want to make sure their investments aren't hurt.  This has the ancillary benefits of protecting the players, but if the players weren't the investments, they wouldn't care.

The second "money" is about inoculation from lawsuits.  Doesn't apply so much in this case (although it can).  There is a problem that the NFL really is scared of: losing a class action suit to the players have have brain injury as a result from playing football.  Yes they really are scared of that because it has a direct effect at the time they lose the suit and a chilling effect long term (if people think football is too dangerous/a bloodsport, they will tune out; maybe not the hardcore fans, but the bread and butter suburbanites).  This last point also potentially has an effect on advertisers pulling their money, which is more direct.
 
2013-08-28 04:59:43 PM
"I'm so disgusted with the NFL right now about those situations but if an offensive player makes enough stink about something they'll change it," Clark said Tuesday. "If they decide to change this rule they might as well put flags [on players] because then you give a guy like myself, who's 200 pounds, a two-foot area to stop a guy who's 240, 250 running at full speed, and that's going to be kind of hard to do."
===========================================================

THIS.

Inevitably, we'll see a rash of burst gallbladders or spleens and they'll make it impossible to tackle anything.

Improve the helmets then we can tackle heads again. There's really no good way to protect the knee.
 
2013-08-28 05:40:39 PM

IAmRight: A Fark Handle: yet teams in college and high school somehow manage to select and shape their rosters without pointless (but profitable) exhibition games.  i'm not saying nfl teams shouldn't practice, have camp, scrimmage, etc, i'm saying preseason games are farking worthless (except to the owners).

Teams in high school and college often do have scrimmages (or in BCS schools' case, they'll find a cupcake for Week 1). Those colleges also have rosters that are larger than NFL teams start with before preseason, so they don't really have to worry about choosing only those who are ready to contribute.


the cupcakes count on the record, unlike the nfl's useless games.  maybe the nfl should at least pay a prorated rookie minimum salary for each game rather than just the training game daily stipend.  the preseason is just another ownership money grab.  fark them.
 
2013-08-28 07:52:15 PM

IAmRight: I don't think I'd switch when the results are:


heh. No worries. I don't think you can help it. Your team is your team and I'm fine with that.
 
2013-08-28 10:36:06 PM

Hyjamon: Theaetetus: spiderpaz: Theaetetus: Yeah, Subby, it's totally asinine that they would want to prevent things like this:
[640x250 from http://cbssports.com/images/blogs/looney-knee-hit-williams.jpg image 640x250]
Not being able to hit a guy in the knee while he's looking elsewhere and you're 10 yards from the ball is what's ruining football.

I'll have to disagree with that last part ... knocking someone on their butt when they're ten yards away from your running back who is still running up-field is the correct thing to do in that situation - just not that way.

I disagree with how you split the sentence up in your bolding. I'd have no problem if Looney hit him in the chest and knocked him on his ass. I disagree with diving at the guy's knee, particularly while he's got his head turned and doesn't know to even attempt to dodge.

Didn't Warren Sap paralyze a guy by doing something like this, just pushing on his shoulder to knock him down while the play was 20 yards away on the other side of the field?


Not sure if this has been answered yet, as there's a bunch of 'ignored' in here for me, BUT...

It sounds like you're talking about his legal but blindside block against Chad Clifton back when Mike Sherman was the head coach of Green Bay.

After the game, Sherman told Sapp in camera view what he thought of the hit, and Sapp famously (and also on camera) challenged the 50-something year old, repeatedly, to "Put on some pads!".

Clifton wasn't paralyzed, IIRC, he couldn't walk for about two months because of the freak nature of the pelvic shattering he had received.

But he ended up coming back the next year and playing well...hell, he played though to 2011 or so as I recall. Pretty good too, until age caught up with him.
 
2013-08-28 10:38:54 PM
I was close on much of my answer.

Checking some Wiki pages and some googling led me to find that the hit in question was in November of 2002.

Here's a vid link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBpEIRaGq2U">http://www.youtube.com/w atch?v=xBpEIRaGq2U

Steve Sabol interviewing Sapp about that hit. Good watch.
 
2013-08-28 10:52:19 PM
So, is intentionally breaking the QB's wrist still OK?
 
2013-08-29 09:40:34 AM

JohnBigBootay: IAmRight: Suck San Francisco's dick some more, league.

I frequently enjoy your staunchly partisan take on things. But you are utterly ruled by your fandom - I'm pretty sure you'd argue 180 degrees in the other direction had a seahawk been involved. At least you are consistent.


Don't forget Tebow.
 
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