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(BizPac Review)   Harvard study to gun grabbers: let us show you just how wrong you are   (bizpacreview.com ) divider line
    More: Obvious, Harvard, Joe Saunders, gun ownership, countries in europe, gun violence, gun controls  
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17794 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Aug 2013 at 11:24 AM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-08-28 09:33:17 AM  
Sweet.  Well done, researchers. This is good.  This is what we want.
 
2013-08-28 09:53:29 AM  
It was called, with disarming bluntness, "Would banning firearms reduce murder and suicide?"

I'm sorry: who exactly proposed banning firearms? Other than the chattering gnomes living in your skull?
 
2013-08-28 10:04:36 AM  
Obama was at my front door again just yesterday demanding I turn my guns over.  Maybe this will finally make him see some sense.  I'm tired of Marine 1 landing in my back yard.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-08-28 10:07:02 AM  
Nice try, but it's not a Harvard study, it's just available for download from Harvard's servers.  It's a spin piece written by two right wing pro-gun activists, neither of which ever went to or worked for Harvard.


Don Kates

Gary Mauser

The Independent Institute that Kates works for is especially interesting.  You can also learn how global warming is a hoax and how terrible Obama care is and how welfare pays more than work.
 
2013-08-28 10:43:53 AM  

vpb: Nice try, but it's not a Harvard study, it's just available for download from Harvard's servers.  It's a spin piece written by two right wing pro-gun activists, neither of which ever went to or worked for Harvard.


Don Kates

Gary Mauser

The Independent Institute that Kates works for is especially interesting.  You can also learn how global warming is a hoax and how terrible Obama care is and how welfare pays more than work.


So, a guy named MAUSER is behind all this. Innnnttterrressstttinggggg.
 
2013-08-28 10:59:26 AM  

vpb: Nice try, but it's not a Harvard study, it's just available for download from Harvard's servers.  It's a spin piece written by two right wing pro-gun activists, neither of which ever went to or worked for Harvard.


Don Kates


Yeah, this guy's a real crackpot.  see here?:

Don B. Kates is a Research Fellow at the Independent Institute. He received his J.D. from Yale University Law School and has taught constitutional law and lectured on criminology at Stanford University, Oxford University, Saint Louis University School of Law, and the University of Melbourne.

He has previously worked for the late civil rights lawyer William Kunstler (Kunstler & Kinoy) and the California Rural Legal Assistance, where he served as Director of Legal Research and Senior Litigation Attorney. After many years as a private practitioner in San Francisco, Kates is now an associate with the firms Trutanich & Michel and the Law Offices of Donald Kilmer. He also maintains a civil liberties and rights practice that specializes in the right to bear arms.
 

Gary Mauser

Y
eah.  This guy too.  See?

http://www.garymauser.net/

The Independent Institute that Kates works for is especially interesting.  You can also learn how global warming is a hoax and how terrible Obama care is and how welfare pays more than work.


That organization is putting out many well thought out stances on many important national and world issues.  Thy deserve more than a sneering dismissal.
 
2013-08-28 11:09:33 AM  

gilgigamesh: It was called, with disarming bluntness, "Would banning firearms reduce murder and suicide?"

I'm sorry: who exactly proposed banning firearms? Other than the chattering gnomes living in your skull?


Please tell me you're trolling. It's either that or your head is so deep in the sand that your ass is buried.
 
2013-08-28 11:26:27 AM  

gilgigamesh: It was called, with disarming bluntness, "Would banning firearms reduce murder and suicide?"

I'm sorry: who exactly proposed banning firearms? Other than the chattering gnomes living in your skull?


Aside from a couple hundred Farkers......DIane Feinstein. She said she didn't have the votes for it though.
 
2013-08-28 11:27:18 AM  
FTFAbout Page: "BIZPAC REVIEW brings the finest of Florida's Conservative media together in one place. "

Ha ha ha!
 
2013-08-28 11:27:32 AM  

gilgigamesh: It was called, with disarming bluntness, "Would banning firearms reduce murder and suicide?"

I'm sorry: who exactly proposed banning firearms? Other than the chattering gnomes living in your skull?


This author.
 
2013-08-28 11:27:41 AM  

vpb: Nice try, but it's not a Harvard study, it's just available for download from Harvard's servers.  It's a spin piece written by two right wing pro-gun activists, neither of which ever went to or worked for Harvard.


Don Kates

Gary Mauser

The Independent Institute that Kates works for is especially interesting.  You can also learn how global warming is a hoax and how terrible Obama care is and how welfare pays more than work.


So, Harvard says global warming is a hoax too?
 
2013-08-28 11:27:46 AM  

gilgigamesh: It was called, with disarming bluntness, "Would banning firearms reduce murder and suicide?"

I'm sorry: who exactly proposed banning firearms? Other than the chattering gnomes living in your skull?


The disingenuous people that explain you don't need pistols, and then under their breath "or rifles, or any other penis substitutes."

A similar situation exists on the abortion front, as the folks wanting "reasonable restrictions" are working for a total ban.
 
2013-08-28 11:28:11 AM  

dr_blasto


So, a guy named MAUSER is behind all this. Innnnttterrressstttinggggg.


We should film the discussion on 8mm.


Sorry, gotta bolt.
 
2013-08-28 11:28:33 AM  

R.A.Danny: gilgigamesh: It was called, with disarming bluntness, "Would banning firearms reduce murder and suicide?"

I'm sorry: who exactly proposed banning firearms? Other than the chattering gnomes living in your skull?

Please tell me you're trolling. It's either that or your head is so deep in the sand that your ass is buried.


Maybe my head is buried, but while I'm aware of people proposing regulating firearms and restricting access to firearms, I am not aware of anyone calling for an outright ban on firearms. Perhaps you would care to enlighten me?
 
2013-08-28 11:28:43 AM  
it's on the internets...it must now be true...
 
2013-08-28 11:28:44 AM  
This thread doesn't stand a chance.
 
2013-08-28 11:29:53 AM  
In before emotional pleas........since they don't have the facts and statistics on their side as per their own talking point memo.
 
2013-08-28 11:29:58 AM  
Yeah, going to have to keep coming back to this thread today.  I expect much frivolity.
 
2013-08-28 11:30:08 AM  
I've never heard Obama or anyone for that fact saying they want to ban handguns.
 
2013-08-28 11:30:33 AM  

vpb:Harvard is a liberal hoax propagated by left wing newspapers and The Daily Show.

 
2013-08-28 11:30:34 AM  

lantawa: Sweet.  Well done, researchers. This is good.  This is what we want.


What, you want the voices in your head to stop or something?

No one is coming to "grab your guns." Except, of course, they should grab YOUR guns. Because crazy people should not have access to guns.
 
2013-08-28 11:30:53 AM  
Anything using the words 'gun grabbers' is equivalent to anything using the words 'democrat party'.
 
2013-08-28 11:31:23 AM  
Well, this should be a calm, reasoned debate that certainly won't devolve into name-calling and shouting. I look forward to it.
 
2013-08-28 11:31:36 AM  
I see we are getting one of our bi-daily gun control/gun nut thread taken care of
 
2013-08-28 11:31:45 AM  

Giltric: gilgigamesh: It was called, with disarming bluntness, "Would banning firearms reduce murder and suicide?"

I'm sorry: who exactly proposed banning firearms? Other than the chattering gnomes living in your skull?

Aside from a couple hundred Farkers......DIane Feinstein. She said she didn't have the votes for it though.


Highlighted the relevant part for you.

And I'd argue that at least 150 of those Farkers are just trying to wind you up.  The other 50 are just plain nuts and are every bit as likely to get a gay Republican President elected by 2036.
 
2013-08-28 11:32:04 AM  
Everyone take a shot every time "reasonable and common sense" is posted.
 
2013-08-28 11:32:06 AM  

lantawa: Yeah, this guy's a real crackpot.  see here?:

Don B. Kates is a Research Fellow at the Independent Institute. He received his J.D. from Yale University Law School and has taught constitutional law and lectured on criminology at Stanford University, Oxford University, Saint Louis University School of Law, and the University of Melbourne.


Funny, I seem to recall President Obama, Elizabeth Warren and pretty much the whole academic system being dismissed as out of touch elitists because of similar credentials.
 
2013-08-28 11:32:10 AM  
I like how it stretches into colonial times, when population density was a small fraction of what it is now, and then compares it to Europe, where it was much higher than it was in the colonies. I also like how it includes the Soviet Union, although mainstream gun-control advocates cite differences in current gun ownership and homicide rates in nations that are otherwise similar, such as the United States and its western European allies. See, if you are rating apples, you compare them to other apples. That's why this study got little press: it's shiat.
 
2013-08-28 11:32:12 AM  

stevetherobot: R.A.Danny: gilgigamesh: It was called, with disarming bluntness, "Would banning firearms reduce murder and suicide?"

I'm sorry: who exactly proposed banning firearms? Other than the chattering gnomes living in your skull?

Please tell me you're trolling. It's either that or your head is so deep in the sand that your ass is buried.

Maybe my head is buried, but while I'm aware of people proposing regulating firearms and restricting access to firearms, I am not aware of anyone calling for an outright ban on firearms. Perhaps you would care to enlighten me?


Wait around a few minutes and a few will pop up. Or perhaps you can apply a no true Scotsman fallacy to explain how no one is "really" wanting to ban guns.
 
2013-08-28 11:32:31 AM  
In your stupid elitist fat liberal faces, libotardos!!
 
2013-08-28 11:32:35 AM  
A piece that has not been peer-reviewed, or published in a respected and recognized academic journal or other similar publication?

I'm gonna guess that it is right up there with the tripe that put 'austerity' as the cure to economic ills.
 
2013-08-28 11:32:49 AM  
What the fark am I reading
 
2013-08-28 11:33:07 AM  

stevetherobot: R.A.Danny: gilgigamesh: It was called, with disarming bluntness, "Would banning firearms reduce murder and suicide?"

I'm sorry: who exactly proposed banning firearms? Other than the chattering gnomes living in your skull?

Please tell me you're trolling. It's either that or your head is so deep in the sand that your ass is buried.

Maybe my head is buried, but while I'm aware of people proposing regulating firearms and restricting access to firearms, I am not aware of anyone calling for an outright ban on firearms. Perhaps you would care to enlighten me?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVz2lHODQvs&feature=share&list=UUe6zk HQ pTMBhiGPCiNA0qMg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=F-qq8pootc4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=1_LaBJvI0BI

Enough?
 
2013-08-28 11:33:07 AM  

Dubya's_Coke_Dealer: What, you want the voices in your head to stop or something?

No one is coming to "grab your guns." Except, of course, they should grab YOUR guns. Because crazy people should not have access to guns.


Whats hilarious is that you don't understand that the study is still true even if nobody is coming to grab your guns.

If they WERE to come grab your guns, you would be demonstrably less safe.

popsych.org
/an example of how unarmed people are less safe.
 
2013-08-28 11:33:08 AM  

R.A.Danny: gilgigamesh: It was called, with disarming bluntness, "Would banning firearms reduce murder and suicide?"

I'm sorry: who exactly proposed banning firearms? Other than the chattering gnomes living in your skull?

Please tell me you're trolling. It's either that or your head is so deep in the sand that your ass is buried.


Sure a few people want to ban all guns. Most want to meet somewhere in the middle. It is in the interest of the NRA to make it an all or none game instead of coming up with plan that makes sense.
 
2013-08-28 11:33:37 AM  
Lets just clear things up here -

Not a Harvard study.
No science was conducted.
Irrelevant and invalid comparisons were cherry picked while ignoring more relevant ones.
Obama's study doesn't come to any conclusions at all. It isn't meant to. It's meant to be used to understand gun violence to the intent of proposing legislation that would impactful.

Turn off the lights, we're done here.
 
2013-08-28 11:33:58 AM  

MadMonk: I've never heard Obama or anyone for that fact saying they want to ban handguns.


No..but they are thinking it and plotting it down in the bunker.  You just know that they are
 
2013-08-28 11:34:27 AM  
Wow, what a disingenuous article.

Cherry picking what you want to hear from a study. Awesome. The study actually states that both sides have it wrong, that this is a super complicated issue, that passing gun control laws without actually reducing the availability of guns (i.e. if your state bans guns that is either pointless or harmful as guns will flow into your area from the next state over) and several other nuanced and cautiously stated suggestions.

Also, anyone who uses the line "well how comes areas with gun laws have higher crime?" is an idiot, plain and simple.  Please google correlation v causation and then kill yourself.
 
2013-08-28 11:34:43 AM  

MadMonk: I've never heard Obama or anyone for that fact saying they want to ban handguns.



Principles that Obama supports on gun issues:
Ban the sale or transfer of all forms of semi-automatic weapons1998 IL State Legislative National Political Awareness Test , Jul 2, 1998
 
2013-08-28 11:35:05 AM  

vpb: Nice try, but it's not a Harvard study, it's just available for download from Harvard's servers.  It's a spin piece written by two right wing pro-gun activists, neither of which ever went to or worked for Harvard.


Interestingly, there is a firearms research group at Harvard, as part of their Injury Control Research Center.  On gun homidice, they state the following findings:

1.  Where there are more guns there is more homicide.
2.  Across high-income nations, more guns = more homicide.
3 & 4.  Across states, more guns = more homicide.

So it sounds like the conclusions of actual Harvard researchers are the exact opposite of what this study claims.
 
2013-08-28 11:35:12 AM  

stevetherobot: R.A.Danny: gilgigamesh: It was called, with disarming bluntness, "Would banning firearms reduce murder and suicide?"

I'm sorry: who exactly proposed banning firearms? Other than the chattering gnomes living in your skull?

Please tell me you're trolling. It's either that or your head is so deep in the sand that your ass is buried.

Maybe my head is buried, but while I'm aware of people proposing regulating firearms and restricting access to firearms, I am not aware of anyone calling for an outright ban on firearms. Perhaps you would care to enlighten me?


Anyone proposing any sort of regulation is secretly trying to eliminate all firearm ownership ever. Even if it's just a farking background check.

The NRA has brainwashed them into thinking this way. It would be kind of hilarious if it didn't result in so many people dying.
 
2013-08-28 11:35:40 AM  

fluffy2097: /an example of how unarmed people are less safe.


Please tell me that's a joke.

If those people had been armed, they would now be dead and not fully recovered from a painful pepper spraying.

Cops use bullets, not pepper spray, against armed folk.
 
2013-08-28 11:35:43 AM  

Giltric: MadMonk: I've never heard Obama or anyone for that fact saying they want to ban handguns.


Principles that Obama supports on gun issues:
Ban the sale or transfer of all forms of semi-automatic weapons1998 IL State Legislative National Political Awareness Test , Jul 2, 1998


Facts are not allowed here.

Although this isn't about facts, it's about the same farkers outright lying in thread after thread.
 
2013-08-28 11:36:11 AM  

Ambitwistor: vpb: Nice try, but it's not a Harvard study, it's just available for download from Harvard's servers.  It's a spin piece written by two right wing pro-gun activists, neither of which ever went to or worked for Harvard.

Interestingly, there is a firearms research group at Harvard, as part of their Injury Control Research Center.  On gun homidice, they state the following findings:

1.  Where there are more guns there is more homicide.
2.  Across high-income nations, more guns = more homicide.
3 & 4.  Across states, more guns = more homicide.

So it sounds like the conclusions of actual Harvard researchers are the exact opposite of what this study claims.


But that's facts and numbers and stuff. It feels wrong, so they won't believe it.
 
2013-08-28 11:36:12 AM  

Devo: R.A.Danny: gilgigamesh: It was called, with disarming bluntness, "Would banning firearms reduce murder and suicide?"

I'm sorry: who exactly proposed banning firearms? Other than the chattering gnomes living in your skull?

Please tell me you're trolling. It's either that or your head is so deep in the sand that your ass is buried.

Sure a few people want to ban all guns. Most want to meet somewhere in the middle. It is in the interest of the NRA to make it an all or none game instead of coming up with plan that makes sense.


Just like in New York limiting magazines to ten rounds was 'meeting in the middle'? And then last year, they ratcheted it down to seven rounds. Meeting in the middle.  What next? In a few years five rounds? Two? None?
 
2013-08-28 11:36:15 AM  

vpb: Nice try, but it's not a Harvard study, it's just available for download from Harvard's servers.  It's a spin piece written by two right wing pro-gun activists, neither of which ever went to or worked for Harvard.


Don Kates

Gary Mauser

The Independent Institute that Kates works for is especially interesting.  You can also learn how global warming is a hoax and how terrible Obama care is and how welfare pays more than work.


I googled Gary Mauser and was pointed to this image:

4.bp.blogspot.com

Yeah, this cat is totally unbiased and agenda-free.
 
2013-08-28 11:36:25 AM  

gilgigamesh: It was called, with disarming bluntness, "Would banning firearms reduce murder and suicide?"

I'm sorry: who exactly proposed banning firearms? Other than the chattering gnomes living in your skull?



Well, Diane Feinstein, for one...

Discussing why the 1994 act only prohibited the manufacture or import of assault weapons, instead of the possession and sale of them, Feinstein said on CBS-TV's 60 Minutes, February 5, 1995, "If I could have gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United States for an outright ban, picking up every one of them . . . Mr. and Mrs. America, turn 'em all in, I would have done it. I could not do that. The votes weren't here.

But you knew that already, of course.
 
2013-08-28 11:37:04 AM  

theMightyRegeya: Giltric: gilgigamesh: It was called, with disarming bluntness, "Would banning firearms reduce murder and suicide?"

I'm sorry: who exactly proposed banning firearms? Other than the chattering gnomes living in your skull?

Aside from a couple hundred Farkers......DIane Feinstein. She said she didn't have the votes for it though.

Highlighted the relevant part for you.

And I'd argue that at least 150 of those Farkers are just trying to wind you up.  The other 50 are just plain nuts and are every bit as likely to get a gay Republican President elected by 2036.


The question was "who exactly proposed banning firearms"

The question had nothing to do with "did they have enough votes to ban firearms"
 
2013-08-28 11:37:16 AM  

R.A.Danny: Giltric: MadMonk: I've never heard Obama or anyone for that fact saying they want to ban handguns.


Principles that Obama supports on gun issues:
Ban the sale or transfer of all forms of semi-automatic weapons1998 IL State Legislative National Political Awareness Test , Jul 2, 1998

Facts are not allowed here.

Although this isn't about facts, it's about the same farkers outright lying in thread after thread.


Since you say you want facts, would you like to respond to this?

Ambitwistor: vpb: Nice try, but it's not a Harvard study, it's just available for download from Harvard's servers.  It's a spin piece written by two right wing pro-gun activists, neither of which ever went to or worked for Harvard.

Interestingly, there is a firearms research group at Harvard, as part of their Injury Control Research Center.  On gun homidice, they state the following findings:

1.  Where there are more guns there is more homicide.
2.  Across high-income nations, more guns = more homicide.
3 & 4.  Across states, more guns = more homicide.

So it sounds like the conclusions of actual Harvard researchers are the exact opposite of what this study claims.

 
2013-08-28 11:37:49 AM  

Giltric: gilgigamesh: It was called, with disarming bluntness, "Would banning firearms reduce murder and suicide?"

I'm sorry: who exactly proposed banning firearms? Other than the chattering gnomes living in your skull?

Aside from a couple hundred Farkers......DIane Feinstein. She said she didn't have the votes for it though.


Can you point out to me where she has proposed banning all firearms? All I can find is her proposing to ban so-called assault weapons. Yes, that is technically "banning firearms" but only some, not all.
 
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