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(Gawker)   US intel agents intercepted phone calls FALSE FLAG from the Syrian Ministry of Defense FALSE FLAG asking their chemical weapons unit who in the fark told them FALSE FLAG to launch a chemical attack on a suburb full of civilians   (gawker.com ) divider line
    More: Obvious, chemical warfares, Syrians, Syrian Ministry, syrian ministry of defense, special agents, chemical weapons unit, Secretary of State John Kerry, phone calls  
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10890 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Aug 2013 at 8:03 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
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2013-08-28 03:22:14 AM  
9 votes:
I have yet to read an article that tells us how the neighborhood that was attacked was of such strategic importance to Assad that it warranted a chemical gas attack that would assure an ass-kicking by the US and our allies.
2013-08-28 03:48:34 AM  
5 votes:
Right... Are we blaming Israel yet or are we blaming this "false flag" operation on ourselves?

If you don't want us to take part in their conflict then you can say it. I'll respect your opinion, I'm luke warm on the idea myself. But this headline is silly.
2013-08-28 05:57:36 AM  
4 votes:
Ah, the Middle East - where everyone is wrong, and everyone is armed.
2013-08-28 04:11:43 AM  
4 votes:
It's amazing how we all still, collectively, have not forgotten the lies that led to and the damage caused by the previous wars. People say the public are fickle and forget everything when X-Factor comes on but I'm seeing very little support for the war, and lots of questioning official versions.

For the record I believe chemical weapons have been used against rebels, and we should still stay out, because whichever side we help will be brutal towards their own people. Also politicians are useless and will botch the whole thing because of election cycles.

I was very much for intervention at the beginning, before I knew anything about the rebels, but I always was impulsive, I'm glad the governments are not, even if at the end of this 2 year period they're still making the wrong decision, you can hardly accuse them of rushing into it.
2013-08-28 08:36:45 AM  
3 votes:

xanadian: Seems to me that lately, every time we intervene in the Middle East, we fark it up.


And for geographically challenged farkers, here's a helpful map of the Middle East:

www.nationsonline.org

No, wait, here it is:

www.nationsonline.org

No, damn it. Middle East, Middle East...

cg043.k12.sd.us

There we go.
2013-08-28 08:31:01 AM  
3 votes:

violentsalvation: It looks to me and most everyone else that chemical weapons were used. I assume by the Assad regime, but I wouldn't put it past the rebels... they have some real shiat heads in their ranks.


A third option I've seen put forward on Al Jazeera America is the possibility that some rogue/semi-independent elements within the regime are trying to force Assad to stick to a hard line course, sabotaging possible peace talks but betting any reaction by the international community will be relatively minor - coming well short of regime toppling.

Seems a bit retarded, but it's not like we haven't seen rogue elements go nuts in that part of the world before.
2013-08-28 08:24:22 AM  
3 votes:
The American people have zero control over the government.
2013-08-28 03:55:14 AM  
3 votes:

violentsalvation: Right... Are we blaming Israel yet or are we blaming this "false flag" operation on ourselves?

If you don't want us to take part in their conflict then you can say it. I'll respect your opinion, I'm luke warm on the idea myself. But this headline is silly.


No such things as "False Flags"?  Or just that this wasnt a false flag?

Not Subby, but the headline isnt silly -it's a reasonable scrutiny atm.
2013-08-28 09:52:51 AM  
2 votes:

FLMountainMan: For the love of God, stay the fark out of Syria.

"The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation," Obama in 2008.

lol.


Joe Biden stated he'd impeach Bush if he attacked Iran without Congressional approval.  But, yeah, its okay when my team does it.
2013-08-28 09:48:28 AM  
2 votes:
Manufactured Syrian war scare pushed NSA off the front page.

So that happen, which is nice for them.
2013-08-28 09:17:24 AM  
2 votes:

FullMetalPanda: So did Assad kill Obama's grandma or something because he seems to be the reincarnate of Bush on the lead up to the invasion of Iraq.


No this is even more incompetent and less by the books.
2013-08-28 09:15:28 AM  
2 votes:

Infernalist: a lot of people are absolutely determined for Obama to have his own version of Iraq.  And Katrina.  And 911.



He's doing a pretty good job on his own.
2013-08-28 09:04:16 AM  
2 votes:
FullMetalPanda
2013-08-28 08:17:52 AM


So did Assad kill Obama's grandma or something because he seems to be the reincarnate of Bush on the lead up to the invasion of Iraq.

Moving TSA from denying water bottles to all out groping of innocents

Expansion of Patriot act.

Expansion of Homeland defense.

Support of gitmo.

Troops still in Afg. and Iraq

Increasing the Bush policy of spying on americans

Drone strikes on civilians

Drones over US airspace

Other than 50% of his race, how exactly is he different than bush?
2013-08-28 08:49:49 AM  
2 votes:
The Carney barker has been shoved out to answer questions and says that this attack on Syria 'won't be about regime change'.  Well ain't that the sh*t?

Then why did Obama say that Assad 'has to go'?  Isn't that 'about regime change'?

Obama is arming and training the rebels, including Al Qaeda (which Obama calls a 'phony scandal') for the purpose of overthrowing the government.  Isn't that 'about regime change'?


Now that our precious little king has ceased two years of dithering and is pointing the royal scepter at Syria, he still seeks 'permission' from the UN, our supposed allies and a phalanx of lawyers before acting.  Why?  If he's finally decided to 'do something', then what's he waiting for?  Did Israel need 'permission' for the airstrikes it's already carried out in Syria?

Is there a Fark LiberalTM out there who has one damned clue as to WTF is going on here?
2013-08-28 08:39:32 AM  
2 votes:
For the love of God, stay the fark out of Syria.

"The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation," Obama in 2008.

lol.
2013-08-28 08:38:55 AM  
2 votes:
There was no benefit for Assad using chemical weapons.  That is why this whole thing stinks to high heavens.

Assad can crush the rebels with conventional means and keep the international community on the outside of the issue, but instead he kills civilians with chemical weapons for no strategic or tactical gain.


Plus even if he did do it, it still doesn't mean we should provide support to the rebels, who very likely will be just as bad, if not worse that Assad morally and as a ally in the region.
2013-08-28 08:33:54 AM  
2 votes:
Hundreds of thousands have already died in this conflict and the world does nothing.   Gas a few hundred and now these deaths have more importance and outrage.  Death by bullets, bombs, starvation, and torture still ok though.

/Stuff your sorries in a sack.   Humans beings don't deserve this planet.
2013-08-28 08:33:48 AM  
2 votes:

shower_in_my_socks: I have yet to read an article that tells us how the neighborhood that was attacked was of such strategic importance to Assad that it warranted a chemical gas attack that would assure an ass-kicking by the US and our allies.


News out of the situation is spotty, but one of the common things mentioned is how towns and neighborhoods all over the place are, if not actively taking part by disrupting local government, indirectly supporting by providing food and beds to rebels, and openly supporting them (the first video that came out of Siria was of an entire town literally partying in the streets after Assad's forces were kicked out).

Which, unfortunately, doesn't just make them targets for retaliation, but also targets of example, to demonstrate the cost of providing aid and comfort to the enemy. The use of chemical weapons for this might be new, but the practice itself is not exactly something new in Siria.
2013-08-28 08:23:23 AM  
2 votes:
hey  Subby, can you do us all a favor and just link to the damned Foreign Policy story rather than Gawker?  I'd prefer to give the clicks to the actual journalists.

http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2013/08/27/exclusive_us_spies _ say_intercepted_calls_prove_syrias_army_used_nerve_gas
2013-08-28 08:19:16 AM  
2 votes:

Carth: paulseta: Ah, the Middle East - where everyone is wrong, and everyone is armed.

An armed society is a polite society!


Heinlein never considered a society where people are willing to die for what they believe in. There are stronger motivations than self preservation and fear.
2013-08-28 08:17:35 AM  
2 votes:
So in these phone calls, where the Syrian army isn't expecting anyone to listen to and presumably speaking candidly, show that they never authorized any chemical attacks, didn't expect their chemical weapons division to carry any out without said authorization, and were told by the chem division that they actually didn't carry out any such attacks.

This sort of thing makes it seem more like the rebels are carrying out chem attacks on themselves to manipulate the world into defending them, not less. Unless it's some sort of double bluff carried out in anticipation that US intel would tap that phone call, which, even after the whole NSA scandal, really isn't that likely when people are fighting for their lives.

/of course, the "civilized world" would condemn Assad just for having a division that manufactures chem weapons
//pretty much the same way they condemn the USA for manufacturing guns, inventing nukes, etc.
///gotta love those unintended consequences of fanatical pacifism
2013-08-28 08:09:49 AM  
2 votes:

paulseta: Ah, the Middle East - where everyone is wrong, and everyone is armed.


An armed society is a polite society!
2013-08-28 05:57:18 AM  
2 votes:
Not our problem! We should mot be the police of the world. As it really only causes regional instability, regional countries should intervene if need be. Besides it is another damned if you do, damned if you don't situations.
2013-08-28 05:49:56 AM  
2 votes:

This About That: Let's hope not. The stock market thinks otherwise.


The stock market thinks current levels of CEO pay is sustainable and that the housing market could never ever lose value.
2013-08-28 05:18:26 AM  
2 votes:

This About That: pending invasion


never happen.
2013-08-28 05:02:10 AM  
2 votes:
someone posted this yesterday or the day before. I found it pretty enlightening.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/syria-behind-the-lines/
2013-08-28 04:33:44 AM  
2 votes:

shower_in_my_socks: I have yet to read an article that tells us how the neighborhood that was attacked was of such strategic importance to Assad that it warranted a chemical gas attack that would assure an ass-kicking by the US and our allies.


Frederick: Since I dont know a lot about this situation I'd first ask "what was gained by a chemical attack?"


It's a reasonable question, and all I can surmise is that if the Assad regime did use chemical weapons they might have thought either that in the west we're all bluster with no appetite for war, or have been assured by Russia that they can do what they want and they will keep the west at bay.

It does seem suicidal to use chemical weapons which would most likely invoke the wrath of the west, perhaps they're just not smart? Or thought they could keep it secret?

I don't think the west wants to go to war, I think we have no stomach for it, so I don't see them manufacturing a casus belli. Although writing that made me consider the possibility that because we have no appetite for a war is precisely why they'd need to manufacture such an event, to get the people riled up and in support of the war.

I still lean toward it being genuine, it's not like the Iraq war claim of 45 minutes, and tenuous stories about yellowcake, and GWB making the claim that Iraq sponsors tourism.
2013-08-28 04:22:54 AM  
2 votes:

violentsalvation: Frederick: violentsalvation: Right... Are we blaming Israel yet or are we blaming this "false flag" operation on ourselves?

If you don't want us to take part in their conflict then you can say it. I'll respect your opinion, I'm luke warm on the idea myself. But this headline is silly.

No such things as "False Flags"?  Or just that this wasnt a false flag?

Not Subby, but the headline isnt silly -it's a reasonable scrutiny atm.

It looks to me and most everyone else that chemical weapons were used. I assume by the Assad regime, but I wouldn't put it past the rebels... they have some real shiat heads in their ranks. But to assume a leak of "yeah hey we picked this phone call up" as a greater false flag operation is stupid. We have at least one spy agency spying on our calls domestically, to assume we aren't actively snooping around and intercepting calls in the war-torn Middle East is pretty silly. To call it a false flag is a total diversion meant to take focus away from the true belligerents in this civil war.


I may be wrong but my interpretation of the headline and the half-assed charge is that chemical weapons were indeed used but maybe not by those who it is claimed.

Me, personally, I dont even know who the belligerents are in this conflict, but I do know a lot of resources are invested in espionage by the US and other countries, therefore I think it wise to consider the possibility of false flag operations in every situation.

Since I dont know a lot about this situation I'd first ask "what was gained by a chemical attack?"
2013-08-28 02:25:52 PM  
1 vote:
Oh my god, way too many words in this thread. Allow me...

img837.imageshack.us

Carry on.
2013-08-28 01:28:24 PM  
1 vote:
The crime syndicate who hijacked our republic 140 years ago are now acting out in the open. Stop toeing your party lines and get real.

Now our future is in the hands of The White Hats.

DISOBEY
2013-08-28 12:17:57 PM  
1 vote:

Infernalist: It was plainly known by all parties involved that Daffy's inability to stabilize his country and get the oil prices down is the biggest incentive for the Europeans to get involved


You should look up the Gaddafis plan on the African Dinar and to stop selling oil exclusively in US dollars.  The last person who tried that was Saddam Hussein.
2013-08-28 11:41:24 AM  
1 vote:

Infernalist: Also saying "The US did bad things in Egypt, therefore Obama lied to get us into a oil war" just sounds silly. I wanted you to know that.


The US supports dictators that murder and torture their own people all over the globe, just as long as they obey our commands.

Here's what happened to protestors in the nation that acts as the home of our nation's fifth fleet in the Persian Gulf.

The police response was described as a "brutal" crackdown on peaceful and unarmed protesters, including doctors and bloggers.[34][35][36] The police carried out midnight house raids in Shia neighbourhoods, beatings at checkpoints and denial of medical care in a campaign of intimidation.[37][38][39] More than 2,929 people have been arrested,[19][40] and at least five died due to torture in police custody.[11]:287-8

Of course, we didn't have a problem with torturing and murdering peaceful protestors there.
2013-08-28 11:26:05 AM  
1 vote:
You are not supposed to talk about how things work or might work, only crazy people do that. Stuff just happens, who you gonna call?

Haha, I know, right? I once asked in a thread how these people can ignore the evidence of what's going on. It isn't hidden; the US government is not half so good at keeping its secrets, and the evidence is all there for people who want to see it.

I had one person respond that it might have happened, but until they saw it on CNN then it was conspiracy theory crap. It was then and there I realized that these people revel in their ignorance. They wrap it about themselves like Linus' blanket. If you never go looking, then the narrative Obama/Bush/whatever feeds the media, and you, stays intact. You can always be the righteous force, with altruistic motives, and nothing but humanitarian goals if you simply try hard enough to stay blind.
2013-08-28 11:24:40 AM  
1 vote:

Infernalist: And yes, there were humanitarian reasons behind stopping Daffy and toppling him, but the alternative was ignoring the rebels and letting him squash them. Now if you're hung up on the 'humanitarian' thing, that's your right, but if you think we shouldn't have gone in there and toppled him, then you're just messed up, bro.


If we didn't continually support regimes that brutally torture and murder their own people, but are sufficiently obedient to our commands, you might have a point.

Torture and police abuse under the regime of Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak were one of the main causes of the protests that have engulfed the country for more than a week, Human Rights Watch said.

The 95-page report, entitled "Work on Him Until he Confesses: Impunity for Torture in Egypt," documents dozens of cases of torture and death in custody, the New-York-based organisation said in a report released today.

"The Egyptian government's foul record on this issue is a huge part of what is still bringing crowds onto the streets today," Joe Stork, deputy director of the group's Middle East and North Africa division.


meanwhile, the Secretary of State is spouting bullshiat like this:

I really consider President and Mrs. Mubarak to be friends of my family. So I hope to see him often here in Egypt and in the United States."

"Humanitarian reasons" my ass.

Obama lied us into another war for oil.
2013-08-28 11:03:59 AM  
1 vote:

vygramul: Tat'dGreaser: IdBeCrazyIf: And once things are settled down, we'll help them rebuild. We're doing the same thing in Libya. We blew up the asshole who was causing shiat, took a step back and said "Hey, we're here when you want us"

Look up, Libya was no success

We accomplished precisely what we set out to do: get Gaddhafi killed for all the crap he's pulled over the years.


That was never our goal until he threatened to tear up western oil firm's contracts, kick them out of Libya, and nationalize their oil wells.

Western nations had already forgiven him for terrorist bombings that killed Americans and gotten the terrorist behind the killings released from prison.

The oil giant BP faced a new furor on Thursday as it confirmed that it had lobbied the British government to conclude a prisoner-transfer agreement that the Libyan government wanted to secure the release of the only person ever convicted for the 1988 Lockerbie airliner bombing over Scotland, which killed 270 people, most of them Americans.

The admission came after American legislators, grappling with the controversy over the company's disastrous Gulf of Mexico oil spill, called for an investigation into BP's actions in the case of the freed man, Abdel Basset Ali al-Megrahi.

The former Libyan intelligence agent was released and allowed to return to Libya last August after doctors advised the Scottish government that he was likely to die within three months of advanced prostate cancer. But nearly a year later, he remains alive, and free, in the Libyan capital, Tripoli.
2013-08-28 10:46:33 AM  
1 vote:

Infernalist: Look up, Libya was no success

Sure it was.


Libyan rebel commander admits his fighters have al-Qaeda links
Handing over a nation to the guys we are fighting a "global war on terror" against is a success?
2013-08-28 10:34:24 AM  
1 vote:
Just make sure we keep Asma safe. She's a hottie so that'd be a shame....

digitaljournal.com


Seriously though I work in a marketing so am pretty much a clueless hack on foreign policy. However, I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, and while flipping through the "experts" on Anderson Cooper, Greta, etc last night I took away a couple things that no one seemed to refute.

1. al Assad is a bad guy.

2. Whoever would replace al-Assad is far worse and we'd have another case of refuges running for the border while being slaughtered.

3. We don't know what this chemical substance is, or who ordered it.

4. We can't bomb the chemical warehouses, we don't want to "own" another situation so we're not bombing al-Assad and pretty much any target we choose will have little effect on Syria - but WILL cause unrest in other Arab countries and embolden them to make terrorist attacks as revenge.

So, as I have said in since being a college kid during the Clinton years... why do we want any part of the Middle East? It's a cluster fudge of insanity. Why don't we just buy our oil and wish them good luck? Either they will work it out eventually or finally blow up the whole damn place, correct?
2013-08-28 10:22:52 AM  
1 vote:

cameroncrazy1984: Headso: Because the government is never engaged in security/military theater, everything they do at the airports is all really about safety, W invading Iraq was really about terrorism, this is really about preventing more chemical weapons attacks.That's not naive at all

You're conflating the TSA and the USA PATRIOT Act with something completely different.


When does believing the official line become naive, when you say so? You believe this is all about preventing further attacks and you believe Iraq was all about terrorism but the TSA is all bullshiat?
2013-08-28 10:19:46 AM  
1 vote:

Infernalist: The European powers had two choices: Support Daffy or support the rebels and they hemmed and they hawed and they talked and talked and Daffy continually pushed the rebels back and back and back until they reached the rebel capitol of Benghazi. That's when the U.S. finally decided to throw their support behind the rebels.


Ummm. No.

The US decided to throw it's support behind the rebels when Gaddafi threatened to throw American and European oil companies out of his nation and tear up their oil contracts.

It's right there in those State Department cables that dastardly Manning person leaked. How dare she expose our government's lies!

Conveniently, the "rebels" promised to honor those contracts.

Obama lied us into a war for oil by claiming "humanitarian reasons" just like Bush lied us into a war for oil claiming WMD's.
2013-08-28 09:56:09 AM  
1 vote:

cameroncrazy1984: Headso: cameroncrazy1984: Headso: they've been talking about it for days now, why would anyone be at those facilities that matters and collateral damage is a thing, one of those missiles could easily kill civilians.

"Could easily" and "would"

I think you're just making up things to be mad about at this point.

you honestly believe this is going to be a meaningful military strike?

I think you've watched too much West Wing.


ok whatever that means, but do you believe this is going to be a meaningful action is it worth doing?
2013-08-28 09:50:24 AM  
1 vote:
So the Syrian Defense Ministry is on tape basically asking who the fark authorized or who the fark launched those WMDs.......but the article doesn't say what the CW units response was....it could have been "I don't know".

The CW units response is the important part of the conversation......

It's almost like the Zimmerman threads....yes Zimmemran shot Martin, and people wanted to leave out the important part of the scenario, ie...that Martin was on top of Zimmerman bashing his head against the concrete when he was shot.
2013-08-28 09:25:13 AM  
1 vote:
So this morning on NPR they were talking about why the US needs to do something, the summary seemed to be "We need to do something because we said we'd do something and if we don't we'll lose credibility in the Middle East".

Think about that for a minute.

We might end up invading another country which presents no direct threat to the US, at the cost the lives of US servicemen, long term disability of US servicemen, billions/trillions of dollars and who knows how many civilian casualties, just so people know to take our threats seriously.
2013-08-28 09:17:04 AM  
1 vote:

PunGent: As opposed to every other president in the television era?  or ever?

The self-effacing rarely seek high office.


So very much this.  It's the people who are positive that they know what is better for you that seek positions of power.

Think about that.
2013-08-28 09:13:17 AM  
1 vote:

FlashHarry: just curious - if this is a "false flag" operation, what does obama have to gain by it? military intervention in syria is less popular than congress right now. plus it will be expensive. plus it will divert attention from the implementation of obamacare, which really needs to go as smoothly as possible for obama to secure his legacy.

i just don't see any up side. if there were, obama would have engaged in syria long ago.


Follow the money. It's always about money.
2013-08-28 09:10:30 AM  
1 vote:
All right, *now* I'm confused.

Is this a case of:

a)  A Syrian army officer, outwardly an Assad loyalist but secretly sympathetic to the rebels, who ordered his troops to use chemical weapons in an attempt to discredit the government and possibly provoke a US intervention?

or

b) The Syrian Ministry of defense, surmising that the CIA/NSA was listening in on the line, trying to present this whole episode as a command screwup, rather than as an act ordered from the top, in an attempt to evade responsibility for the chemical attack and possibly prevent a US intervention?

or

c) Something else?
2013-08-28 09:02:42 AM  
1 vote:

macadamnut: xanadian: Seems to me that lately, every time we intervene in the Middle East, we fark it up.

And for geographically challenged farkers, here's a helpful map of the Middle East:

[562x432 from http://www.nationsonline.org/maps/central_america_map_855.jpg image 562x432]

No, wait, here it is:

[562x357 from http://www.nationsonline.org/maps/south_east_asia_map.jpg image 562x357]

No, damn it. Middle East, Middle East...

[562x360 from http://cg043.k12.sd.us/regions%20of%20the%20US%20webquest/southe1.gif image 562x360]

There we go.


imgs.xkcd.com
2013-08-28 08:55:31 AM  
1 vote:

LasersHurt: DubtodaIll: LasersHurt: I love how people are pre-emptively so pissed at the war Obama's gotten us into. Soon. Will have gotten us into. Definitely. This is the same as Iraq. Or will have been.

It's not that they're pissed about the potential for war, it's that he's not a man of his word.

You mean he willn't have been a man of his word? Theoretically? Which word is that?


Most of them, it's not just this situation, but this situation is another example of how he makes a great speech and then does something else entirely.
2013-08-28 08:52:47 AM  
1 vote:
When it comes to Syria...there is one thing that is for sure.

...we can't trust a farkin' thing John Kerry says.
2013-08-28 08:50:55 AM  
1 vote:
So we're going to war AGAIN! Where are the anti war protestors? Where's the code pink nuts? I guess biden and almost all the other demahippocrates are ok with this fight. Most democrats won't speak out against barry or his policies because they fear the almighty jackboot of liberal scorn, political suicide, death threats cold shoulders at dem gatherings etc. Does anyone on the left have the intestinal fortitude to question anything at all that this guy does?

barry is a known narcissist. Are you sure he's not doing this because he's tired of being laughed at by the other world leaders for being soft, wishy washy and not understanding how the rest of the world works? Is it possible that in his circle of advisors, hollywood friends, news outlets, can't do so I teach educators and other obamorons, that he believes he solved the worlds hatred of America with some really hip speeches? He's about to provide some very heavy ordnance to rebel fighters. Some of these same rebels are terrorists. Has he forgotten what happened a little over a decade ago to America? barry doesn't fit the Bush cowboy mo. He's more of the guy in charge of the Apple Dumpling gang, but do you really want him invading another country just because his feelings are constantly hurt at world leader meetings or so he can support his rebel (hint, they really hate Americans) friends? It wouldn't surprise me if the whole reason for this invasion is because Syria had lots of sunlight and its windy. No Blood For Green Energy!
2013-08-28 08:50:32 AM  
1 vote:
The cry of 'false flag' is generally done by those whom have already determined the reality of things and generally disregard evidence that disputes their pre-determined conclusion as to what reality is.

Conspiracy theorists are the worst when it comes to these sorts of declarations, but many partisans of all flavors are fond of using 'false flag' to disregard things that don't fit into the narratives in their heads.
2013-08-28 08:49:13 AM  
1 vote:
While the phone calls, if true, would prove that the Syrian government was responsible for the attacks,

No, it would NOT. The Russian ambassador submitted an 80-page report to the U.N. back in July, stating that the sarin used in the recent attacks had not been chemically stabilized. That means that the sarin was recently manufactured and unsuitable for long-term storage. Also, the weapons used to deliver the sarin were primitive compared to the weapons the Syrian government is known to have.

He said the analysis showed that the unguided Basha'ir-3 rocket that hit Khan al-Assal was not a military-standard chemical weapon. Churkin said the results indicate it "was not industrially manufactured and was filled with sarin." He said the samples indicated the sarin and the projectile were produced in makeshift "cottage industry" conditions, and the projectile "is not a standard one for chemical use."

Sarin production does not require sophisticated equipment. Figuring out whether or not the sarin is chemically stabilized is an easily-verifiable fact. There are samples of it all over the goddamn place, so I'd like that see our government answer that one simple question before we belly-flop into another quagmire with our tails ablazin'.
2013-08-28 08:45:55 AM  
1 vote:

FC Exile: SockMonkeyHolocaust: Just for old times sake, let's get Colin Powell up in front of the UN to make the case that Syria can deploy those weapons in 45... no 25 minutes and they have mobile labs and that's why we don't know where they are but remember Knight Rider? He had that garage in the back of a trailer truck.

Hey now. Where do you think these chemical weapons came from?


I made the mistake of making a joke about French, Russian and American arms dealers using shell companies and I realized that while it's probably true I should shut up because I sound like a conspiracy theorist.

ltdanman44: Hundreds of thousands have already died in this conflict and the world does nothing.   Gas a few hundred and now these deaths have more importance and outrage.  Death by bullets, bombs, starvation, and torture still ok though.

/Stuff your sorries in a sack.   Humans beings don't deserve this planet.


From a geopolitical standpoint, the question is if they let Syria get away with using chemical weapons how much leverage and confidence will Iran get to make nuclear weapons. So yeah, a country can have a civil war and both sides can sell arms or insert "advisors" but once it expands outside the borders it becomes a problem.
2013-08-28 08:45:20 AM  
1 vote:

DirtyDeadGhostofEbenezerCooke: The SEC has chemical weapons!


Technically, so does anyone who owns a pool, or who has a bunch of cleaning supplies.
2013-08-28 08:41:10 AM  
1 vote:

illegal.tender: The American people have zero control over the government.


It's only because we believe that statement and act as if we don't, that we don't.
2013-08-28 08:32:54 AM  
1 vote:

paulseta: Ah, the Middle East - where everyone is wrong, and everyone is armed.


This same sentence applies to Texas and Florida
2013-08-28 08:31:41 AM  
1 vote:

Frederick: violentsalvation: Right... Are we blaming Israel yet or are we blaming this "false flag" operation on ourselves?

If you don't want us to take part in their conflict then you can say it. I'll respect your opinion, I'm luke warm on the idea myself. But this headline is silly.

No such things as "False Flags"?  Or just that this wasnt a false flag?

Not Subby, but the headline isnt silly -it's a reasonable scrutiny atm.


Reasonable scrutiny isn't claiming "false flag".

Of course when dealing with a guy who "has a lot of questions" about the holocaust, that is perfectly normal.
2013-08-28 08:31:06 AM  
1 vote:

badhatharry: pxlboy: illegal.tender: The American people have zero control over the government.

I would agree with that sentiment.

Our control over the government is called voting.


LOL
2013-08-28 08:30:01 AM  
1 vote:

pxlboy: illegal.tender: The American people have zero control over the government.

I would agree with that sentiment.


Our control over the government is called voting.
2013-08-28 08:28:02 AM  
1 vote:

Tyrone Slothrop: Carth: paulseta: Ah, the Middle East - where everyone is wrong, and everyone is armed.

An armed society is a polite society!

Heinlein never considered a society where people are willing to die for what they believe in. There are stronger motivations than self preservation and fear.


Better idea - egg Israel on until they attack with enough force that Syria responds, using chemical weapons on Israel (with Assad being destroyed in the retaliation). Sit back and just eat popcorn while your problems solve each other.

Afterwords, give some aid to the survivors and take credit at the UN.
2013-08-28 08:23:24 AM  
1 vote:
Would the Taliban/AlQaeda/Islamo-psychos gas their own people to bait the US into expanding the conflict?

I think yes.
2013-08-28 08:21:22 AM  
1 vote:

This About That: log_jammin: This About That: pending invasion

never happen.

Let's hope not. The stock market thinks otherwise.


Its inevitable.
Once you make "red line" statements, you base your credibility on making a response when the line is crossed.  A response that now means doing something about Assad's chemical weapons, which we've just admitted exist and are at risk of falling into worse hands than his.
Blowing a chemical weapon stash up means spreading the mess, so that's not an option. I doubt this guys turning stuff over willingly. That means someone's got to go there and dispose of those shells in person.

Who gets the Job, the Syrian rebels and Al Queda?
I'd suggest the UN, but that's a joke when they can't even drive across a city.
Maybe the French or Brit... No, probably not. Russia sure as hell isn't interested either.


Who's left?

/A winner is U.S.!
2013-08-28 08:17:21 AM  
1 vote:
I would guess it was the infiltrated Al Quaeda operative. Obviously not an order from the top. Let's bomb them.
2013-08-28 08:16:19 AM  
1 vote:

tkwasny: It's all about getting British and American planes in the air over the region so the AMERICAN SAMs spirited through Bengazi by AMERICANS can be used to shoot down AMERICAN planes to foster enough outrage to start the "big one" for economic purposes. War will get the world out of debt by killing all the people that everyone owes money to.


Wow you're blowing the lid off of this thing.
2013-08-28 08:15:25 AM  
1 vote:
Still think that the UN should be the one handling this with the US taking only a support role i.e. no new troops from the US and only the assets allocated to the UN should be given.
2013-08-28 08:11:41 AM  
1 vote:

Frederick: Since I dont know a lot about this situation I'd first ask "what was gained by a chemical attack?"



Dead enemies and fearful survivors. The same in every kind of attack.
2013-08-28 08:07:50 AM  
1 vote:
There was no real evidence to go to war with Iraq and we made some up to justify it. Why can't we ignore real evidence of war crimes in Syria and make up evidence to not go to war?
2013-08-28 05:20:18 AM  
1 vote:
As an American expat working in Israel, I do not want to see a US  strike.  I'm prepaired to be disappointed.

 .
2013-08-28 05:15:32 AM  
1 vote:
Well, good, somebody found the fig leaf to cover America's exit from the pending invasion. And no, subby, the "US Intelligence agents" would never lie to us. We're Americans.
2013-08-28 04:08:37 AM  
1 vote:

Frederick: violentsalvation: Right... Are we blaming Israel yet or are we blaming this "false flag" operation on ourselves?

If you don't want us to take part in their conflict then you can say it. I'll respect your opinion, I'm luke warm on the idea myself. But this headline is silly.

No such things as "False Flags"?  Or just that this wasnt a false flag?

Not Subby, but the headline isnt silly -it's a reasonable scrutiny atm.


It looks to me and most everyone else that chemical weapons were used. I assume by the Assad regime, but I wouldn't put it past the rebels... they have some real shiat heads in their ranks. But to assume a leak of "yeah hey we picked this phone call up" as a greater false flag operation is stupid. We have at least one spy agency spying on our calls domestically, to assume we aren't actively snooping around and intercepting calls in the war-torn Middle East is pretty silly. To call it a false flag is a total diversion meant to take focus away from the true belligerents in this civil war.
2013-08-28 03:29:14 AM  
1 vote:
I'm not understanding this whole mess.
 
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