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(Gawker)   US intel agents intercepted phone calls FALSE FLAG from the Syrian Ministry of Defense FALSE FLAG asking their chemical weapons unit who in the fark told them FALSE FLAG to launch a chemical attack on a suburb full of civilians   (gawker.com) divider line 548
    More: Obvious, chemical warfares, Syrians, Syrian Ministry, syrian ministry of defense, special agents, chemical weapons unit, Secretary of State John Kerry, phone calls  
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10877 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Aug 2013 at 8:03 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-08-28 10:15:29 AM  

Infernalist: You're pretty uneducated on the circumstances leading up to the Libyan war.


We spent over one dollar there, that's too much
 
2013-08-28 10:17:06 AM  

DubtodaIll: And yes, after a decrease in taxes, when taxes go back up, that's called a tax increase.  If they're able to make it "temporarily" go down, then they can make it go down whenever they're able to put it on paper and sign it.


Ah, so you believe that when a product goes on sale, once the sale ends, they increase the price of that product. Because you're a moron.
 
2013-08-28 10:17:39 AM  

Tat'dGreaser: Are you nuts? You don't read the news? The news that has been verified that Al Qaeda has joined the rebel movement?


There are actually about 100 different factions making up the rebel movement and yes some of the are Islamist. Islamist forces that hate America but what if...just what if... and hear me out here. We give them the support they need and step back and let Syrian people make their own decisions regarding their nation, who  knows they might just like us again.

Worked in Libya. Hell after the consulate attack the locals actually rounded up a posse to storm the compound of the people who attacked us. And its part of the reason why we were so hated in Afghanistan. We supported them against the Russians and then left when the soviets pulled out instead of continuing to support them like we are in Libya now.

So maybe, just maybe if we offer a helping hand, not boots on the ground but real true support....who knows?
 
2013-08-28 10:17:42 AM  

Headso: Because the government is never engaged in security/military theater, everything they do at the airports is all really about safety, W invading Iraq was really about terrorism, this is really about preventing more chemical weapons attacks.That's not naive at all


You're conflating the TSA and the USA PATRIOT Act with something completely different.
 
2013-08-28 10:17:59 AM  

liam76: vygramul: No, weapons like that simply do not get released to the flunkies without intending to use them

You are Assad.

You know people in the west are worreid abotu your chemical weapons.  Would you leav all of them in a "secure" bunker or get them spread out?

Also you may want to familirize yourself with hwo oftent he US has lost nuclear wpeaons or accidently flwon with them.  I doubt assad's military is nearly as professional, so to see a mistake like this happenig is completely plausible imho.


People only release weapons when they have made a decision to use them, and only long enough to use them. The U.S. isn't a dictatorship and has a strong civil-military relationship. Note that I said tyrannies exert more control.
 
2013-08-28 10:18:22 AM  

Tat'dGreaser: Infernalist: You're pretty uneducated on the circumstances leading up to the Libyan war.

We spent over one dollar there, that's too much


That's penny-wise, pound-foolish.

In this world, you invest into things to make them go your way in the long run.  If we'd ignored Libya, the mess would have been worse for us in the long run.  It would have cost us MORE than that 100 million cheap-o war that we used to topple Daffy and install a government that LIKES us.

Your way of thinking translates to not turning on the electricity at your house because it's too expensive....and then ordering take-out every night so that you can have hot food.

Penny-wise, pound-foolish.
 
2013-08-28 10:18:39 AM  

cameroncrazy1984: Headso: Because the government is never engaged in security/military theater, everything they do at the airports is all really about safety, W invading Iraq was really about terrorism, this is really about preventing more chemical weapons attacks.That's not naive at all

You're conflating the TSA and the USA PATRIOT Act with something completely different.


Name it!
 
2013-08-28 10:19:05 AM  

cameroncrazy1984: DubtodaIll: And yes, after a decrease in taxes, when taxes go back up, that's called a tax increase.  If they're able to make it "temporarily" go down, then they can make it go down whenever they're able to put it on paper and sign it.

Ah, so you believe that when a product goes on sale, once the sale ends, they increase the price of that product. Because you're a moron.


Is that all you've got to say "You're stupid"?  Just like a Dookie, thinking you're right.  You seem to be OK with the government running itself like a retail store though.
 
2013-08-28 10:19:46 AM  

Infernalist: The European powers had two choices: Support Daffy or support the rebels and they hemmed and they hawed and they talked and talked and Daffy continually pushed the rebels back and back and back until they reached the rebel capitol of Benghazi. That's when the U.S. finally decided to throw their support behind the rebels.


Ummm. No.

The US decided to throw it's support behind the rebels when Gaddafi threatened to throw American and European oil companies out of his nation and tear up their oil contracts.

It's right there in those State Department cables that dastardly Manning person leaked. How dare she expose our government's lies!

Conveniently, the "rebels" promised to honor those contracts.

Obama lied us into a war for oil by claiming "humanitarian reasons" just like Bush lied us into a war for oil claiming WMD's.
 
2013-08-28 10:20:52 AM  

IdBeCrazyIf: So maybe, just maybe if we offer a helping hand, not boots on the ground but real true support....who knows?


Alright, what do you suggest?
 
2013-08-28 10:20:52 AM  
My solution is simple and effective.  Knock out anything flying over Syria.  Fly over it night and day knocking out every site that is capable of launching CW, and every radar site that targets our jets.  No distinction on Assad or Rebels.  Everything that is capable of firing CW or shooting down a modern jet, or is flying over the country and doesn't know the words to The Devil Went Down to Georgia is blown up.
 
2013-08-28 10:22:01 AM  

BullBearMS: Infernalist: The European powers had two choices: Support Daffy or support the rebels and they hemmed and they hawed and they talked and talked and Daffy continually pushed the rebels back and back and back until they reached the rebel capitol of Benghazi. That's when the U.S. finally decided to throw their support behind the rebels.

Ummm. No.

The US decided to throw it's support behind the rebels when Gaddafi threatened to throw American and European oil companies out of his nation and tear up their oil contracts.

It's right there in those State Department cables that dastardly Manning person leaked. How dare she expose our government's lies!

Conveniently, the "rebels" promised to honor those contracts.

Obama lied us into a war for oil by claiming "humanitarian reasons" just like Bush lied us into a war for oil claiming WMD's.


Even if that was true, that alone would have thrown the European economy into a tailspin.  With the same results as I listed.

Personally, I don't give a single fark if someone lied to get us into Libya.  It turned out for the best for all involved except for the Russians, Daffy and his inner circle and the GOP.
 
2013-08-28 10:22:17 AM  

DubtodaIll: cameroncrazy1984: DubtodaIll: And yes, after a decrease in taxes, when taxes go back up, that's called a tax increase.  If they're able to make it "temporarily" go down, then they can make it go down whenever they're able to put it on paper and sign it.

Ah, so you believe that when a product goes on sale, once the sale ends, they increase the price of that product. Because you're a moron.

Is that all you've got to say "You're stupid"?  Just like a Dookie, thinking you're right.  You seem to be OK with the government running itself like a retail store though.


I love how after maybe 30 comments on this topic you finally admitted that it was due to the tax holiday expiring. Do you yell at the store clerk when he charges you full price on an item that went off sale yesterday? A tax holiday has a sunset. Allowing that sunset to occur isn't "raising taxes" anymore than charging the regular price for a movie ticket at night is raising the rates.
 
2013-08-28 10:22:29 AM  

DubtodaIll: cameroncrazy1984: DubtodaIll: And yes, after a decrease in taxes, when taxes go back up, that's called a tax increase.  If they're able to make it "temporarily" go down, then they can make it go down whenever they're able to put it on paper and sign it.

Ah, so you believe that when a product goes on sale, once the sale ends, they increase the price of that product. Because you're a moron.

Is that all you've got to say "You're stupid"?  Just like a Dookie, thinking you're right.  You seem to be OK with the government running itself like a retail store though.


How dare he think he's right just because he's right, what a lib, amirite
 
2013-08-28 10:22:45 AM  

I_C_Weener: My solution is simple and effective.  Knock out anything flying over Syria.  Fly over it night and day knocking out every site that is capable of launching CW, and every radar site that targets our jets.  No distinction on Assad or Rebels.  Everything that is capable of firing CW or shooting down a modern jet, or is flying over the country and doesn't know the words to The Devil Went Down to Georgia is blown up.


I can live with that.
 
2013-08-28 10:22:52 AM  

cameroncrazy1984: Headso: Because the government is never engaged in security/military theater, everything they do at the airports is all really about safety, W invading Iraq was really about terrorism, this is really about preventing more chemical weapons attacks.That's not naive at all

You're conflating the TSA and the USA PATRIOT Act with something completely different.


When does believing the official line become naive, when you say so? You believe this is all about preventing further attacks and you believe Iraq was all about terrorism but the TSA is all bullshiat?
 
2013-08-28 10:23:15 AM  

Infernalist: Personally, I don't give a single fark if someone lied to get us into Libya.  It turned out for the best for all involved except for the Russians, Daffy and his inner circle and the GOP.


So you admit that you're just a hypocrite? That's ok, I am sometimes too. I'm trying to get better though
 
2013-08-28 10:23:24 AM  

Infernalist: Personally, I don't give a single fark if someone lied to get us into Libya.


Sure, because we spent most of a decade complaining about Bush lying us into a war for no particular reason.
 
2013-08-28 10:23:50 AM  

DubtodaIll: I don't take home any taxes. And yes, after a decrease in taxes, when taxes go back up, that's called a tax increase. If they're able to make it "temporarily" go down, then they can make it go down whenever they're able to put it on paper and sign it


Aren't you a republican?
Never heard of fiscal responsibility?
 
2013-08-28 10:24:22 AM  

Tat'dGreaser: IdBeCrazyIf: So maybe, just maybe if we offer a helping hand, not boots on the ground but real true support....who knows?

Alright, what do you suggest?


Everyone loves chocolate.
 
2013-08-28 10:24:35 AM  

Headso: cameroncrazy1984: Headso: Because the government is never engaged in security/military theater, everything they do at the airports is all really about safety, W invading Iraq was really about terrorism, this is really about preventing more chemical weapons attacks.That's not naive at all

You're conflating the TSA and the USA PATRIOT Act with something completely different.

When does believing the official line become naive, when you say so? You believe this is all about preventing further attacks and you believe Iraq was all about terrorism but the TSA is all bullshiat?


Where did I say that Iraq was all about terrorism? I believe Iraq was about starting a war so that Halliburton and defense contractors could get no-bid contracts and so that Bush could be a War President.
 
2013-08-28 10:24:44 AM  
www.globalresearch.ca
 
2013-08-28 10:25:27 AM  

BullBearMS: Infernalist: Personally, I don't give a single fark if someone lied to get us into Libya.

Sure, because we spent most of a decade complaining about Bush lying us into a war for no particular reason.


Yeah, because Libya happened the same way, right? We're still the...wait, are you telling me it was over in 2  months and cost 0 American lives? Huh. It's almost as if the two situations were completely different.
 
2013-08-28 10:25:36 AM  

I_C_Weener: Everyone loves chocolate.


They don't even like naked women over there
 
2013-08-28 10:26:02 AM  

BullBearMS: Infernalist: Personally, I don't give a single fark if someone lied to get us into Libya.

Sure, because we spent most of a decade complaining about Bush lying us into a war for no particular reason.


If Libya had turned out like Iraq, you might have had a point.

Tat'dGreaser: Infernalist: Personally, I don't give a single fark if someone lied to get us into Libya.  It turned out for the best for all involved except for the Russians, Daffy and his inner circle and the GOP.

So you admit that you're just a hypocrite? That's ok, I am sometimes too. I'm trying to get better though


So, you're just playing a personal game of 'gotcha'?   As I said to the other guy, if Libya had turned out as farked as Iraq, I'd be just as mad as I was about Iraq.

But, it didn't.  Libya was a home run with three on base.  It was a perfectly run foreign policy effort that resulted in good things in the short term, the long term and it was the morally right thing to do.

If you people are more concerned with trying to equate Libya with Iraq, then you show yourself for what you are: Partisan hacks mostly concerned with trying to paint Obama with the same brush used on Bush and 'that' is why you are mocked, scorned and ignored.
 
2013-08-28 10:26:17 AM  

cameroncrazy1984: cost 0 American lives?


Omg get the f*ck off my internet
 
2013-08-28 10:26:58 AM  

cameroncrazy1984: DubtodaIll: cameroncrazy1984: DubtodaIll: And yes, after a decrease in taxes, when taxes go back up, that's called a tax increase.  If they're able to make it "temporarily" go down, then they can make it go down whenever they're able to put it on paper and sign it.

Ah, so you believe that when a product goes on sale, once the sale ends, they increase the price of that product. Because you're a moron.

Is that all you've got to say "You're stupid"?  Just like a Dookie, thinking you're right.  You seem to be OK with the government running itself like a retail store though.

I love how after maybe 30 comments on this topic you finally admitted that it was due to the tax holiday expiring. Do you yell at the store clerk when he charges you full price on an item that went off sale yesterday? A tax holiday has a sunset. Allowing that sunset to occur isn't "raising taxes" anymore than charging the regular price for a movie ticket at night is raising the rates.


I'd rather see tax funerals than holidays.
 
2013-08-28 10:27:05 AM  

Tat'dGreaser: IdBeCrazyIf: So maybe, just maybe if we offer a helping hand, not boots on the ground but real true support....who knows?

Alright, what do you suggest?


Pull an Iron Man "he's all yours"

Using remote missiles, air strikes from Isreal/Turkey we flatten the military, crush any ports ability to import weapons, impose a blockade except for humanitarian aid, offer Turkey support for refugees and then offer the Syrian people a chance to pick what they want as their government while we stand by and keep our helping hands open.
 
2013-08-28 10:27:09 AM  

Tat'dGreaser: cameroncrazy1984: cost 0 American lives?

Omg get the f*ck off my internet


How many soldiers died in Libya?
 
2013-08-28 10:27:12 AM  

Infernalist: If you people are more concerned with trying to equate Libya with Iraq, then you show yourself for what you are: Partisan hacks mostly concerned with trying to paint Obama with the same brush used on Bush and 'that' is why you are mocked, scorned and ignored.


What the f*ck are you rambling about!?!?!

Now you're cool with drone strikes on children?
 
2013-08-28 10:28:06 AM  

Tat'dGreaser: cameroncrazy1984: cost 0 American lives?

Omg get the f*ck off my internet


Was I wrong? It really seems like your opposition to this was the fact that Obama didn't fail like Bush did.
 
2013-08-28 10:29:08 AM  

Tat'dGreaser: I_C_Weener: Everyone loves chocolate.

They don't even like naked women over there


They would if they were covered in melted chocolate.
 
2013-08-28 10:29:08 AM  

Tat'dGreaser: I_C_Weener: Everyone loves chocolate.

They don't even like naked women over there


Sure they do, they just want 70 of them
 
2013-08-28 10:29:08 AM  

Tat'dGreaser: Infernalist: If you people are more concerned with trying to equate Libya with Iraq, then you show yourself for what you are: Partisan hacks mostly concerned with trying to paint Obama with the same brush used on Bush and 'that' is why you are mocked, scorned and ignored.

What the f*ck are you rambling about!?!?!

Now you're cool with drone strikes on children?


They've always been cool with drone strikes on children.....it just took a different guy in office for them to not be afraid of sharing that opinion with everyone.
 
2013-08-28 10:29:20 AM  

vygramul: People only release weapons when they have made a decision to use them, and only long enough to use them.


People don't keep weapons in known or suspected stockpiles if they want to be able to use them after a greater power bombs them.


vygramul: The U.S. isn't a dictatorship and has a strong civil-military relationship. Note that I said tyrannies exert more control


The Us has a failry robust system in place to make sure our dangerous pwespons are only used at the right time, yet we still make mistakes.

I have never worked in Syria, but I have worked in Egypt and knwo govt control over things like explosives and raduioactive sources wasn't nearly as tight as it was in the US. Devoting time and energy to safeguarfds liek that is a hallmark of first world countries. It is very easy for me to see someon farking up with what warhead they are using in Syria. Now I am nto saying I know that is what happened, just that it is entirely possible.
 
2013-08-28 10:30:01 AM  

Infernalist: How many soldiers died in Libya?


A lot actually....ohh wait you meant our soldiers

Let's not wax intellectual that war doesn't cost SOME lives
 
2013-08-28 10:31:20 AM  

Infernalist: Tat'dGreaser: cameroncrazy1984: cost 0 American lives?

Omg get the f*ck off my internet

How many soldiers died in Libya?


The Libyan ones or NATO?
 
2013-08-28 10:31:30 AM  

cameroncrazy1984: Headso: cameroncrazy1984: Headso: Because the government is never engaged in security/military theater, everything they do at the airports is all really about safety, W invading Iraq was really about terrorism, this is really about preventing more chemical weapons attacks.That's not naive at all

You're conflating the TSA and the USA PATRIOT Act with something completely different.

When does believing the official line become naive, when you say so? You believe this is all about preventing further attacks and you believe Iraq was all about terrorism but the TSA is all bullshiat?

Where did I say that Iraq was all about terrorism? I believe Iraq was about starting a war so that Halliburton and defense contractors could get no-bid contracts and so that Bush could be a War President.


But it's naive to think this strike is a meaningless gesture? Is this all rooted in extreme partisanship?
 
2013-08-28 10:31:35 AM  

DubtodaIll: cameroncrazy1984: DubtodaIll: Right, and I was told by my President that none of them would go up.  It's not like I'm surprised, but I don't see why you're trying to convince me the President is a man of his word when even his rhetoric turns out to be bull.

A) Your FICA tax didn't go up and B) He never said they wouldn't go up if you made more money, you dumbass.

I'm not making more money...I'm taking home less.


So stop whining, bootsrap yourself up, and get a better job.  Why do you expect the government to fix the economy and do everything FOR you?

/GOP medicine...why don't they take it?
 
2013-08-28 10:32:21 AM  

I_C_Weener: Infernalist: Tat'dGreaser: cameroncrazy1984: cost 0 American lives?

Omg get the f*ck off my internet

How many soldiers died in Libya?

The Libyan ones or NATO?


Contractors don't count as soldiers.

Technically correct is best kind of correct.
 
2013-08-28 10:32:31 AM  

IdBeCrazyIf: Infernalist: How many soldiers died in Libya?

A lot actually....ohh wait you meant our soldiers

Let's not wax intellectual that war doesn't cost SOME lives


And if we were discussing the overall cost of the war over there, that might have been a relevant point.  Yonder yokel was ranting on about the cost of the Libyan conflict and I simply pointed out that America didn't lose a single soldier in the conflict.  Not even one.  And it was so cheap that the budget for that timeframe didn't even need to be adjusted to cover the cost.  In short, budget-wise, the Libyan conflict left no impact.  None.
 
2013-08-28 10:32:42 AM  
 
2013-08-28 10:33:02 AM  

Tat'dGreaser: You have way too much faith in military intelligence. Now you want to drag Turkey into this? What if they don't want a part in it? What if you miss all your targets? You want to destroy a port that creates money for their economy just on the off chance of importing weapons? How long are you willing to hold this blockade? What if Russia wants to get involved then?


That's the cool thing about the UN security council, is that the door swings both ways. Russia would have to go through normal channels first and their sudden 1 2 vote with China because a minority weakness instead of strength.

Obviously you would miss some things, but it worked in Libya and it would work here.

And yes, Turkey is already IN this as they have been fired at on the border before rebels were able to take the north land and they also have a bulk stake in this since nearly 2/3 of the refugees are camping out there. Pretty sure Turkey would love to see them go home.

And once things are settled down, we'll help them rebuild. We're doing the same thing in Libya. We blew up the asshole who was causing shiat, took a step back and said "Hey, we're here when you want us"
 
2013-08-28 10:33:03 AM  

SpectroBoy: shower_in_my_socks: I have yet to read an article that tells us how the neighborhood that was attacked was of such strategic importance to Assad that it warranted a chemical gas attack that would assure an ass-kicking by the US and our allies.

Same here. Something seems fishy with all of this.


Objectively, it may not have been.

That doesn't mean that it may not have seemed to be to the Assad regime, based upon the intelligence they had at the time.  I mean, it's not like we haven't acted on faulty intelligence in the past *COUGH*Iraq*COUGH*.

Also, we don't know who or what else was in the neighborhood.  Perhaps it was a meeting of rebel commanders for a strategy session.  We don't know one way or the other, and the rebels of course aren't going to talk because if they did, it would serve to let the Assad regime know if their intelligence was good, or if it was bad.

That's assuming, of course, that it wasn't some local commander who was either over-eager, or who farked up.
 
2013-08-28 10:33:14 AM  

Infernalist: I'll ask again.  How many soldiers died in Libya?  Can you answer that?


That's how you measure success??
 
2013-08-28 10:33:18 AM  

Headso: cameroncrazy1984: Headso: cameroncrazy1984: Headso: Because the government is never engaged in security/military theater, everything they do at the airports is all really about safety, W invading Iraq was really about terrorism, this is really about preventing more chemical weapons attacks.That's not naive at all

You're conflating the TSA and the USA PATRIOT Act with something completely different.

When does believing the official line become naive, when you say so? You believe this is all about preventing further attacks and you believe Iraq was all about terrorism but the TSA is all bullshiat?

Where did I say that Iraq was all about terrorism? I believe Iraq was about starting a war so that Halliburton and defense contractors could get no-bid contracts and so that Bush could be a War President.

But it's naive to think this strike is a meaningless gesture? Is this all rooted in extreme partisanship?


Yes. Because you have no idea what is going to happen yet. You and many others in this thread are speaking as if something has been done.
 
2013-08-28 10:33:41 AM  

I_C_Weener: Infernalist: Tat'dGreaser: cameroncrazy1984: cost 0 American lives?

Omg get the f*ck off my internet

How many soldiers died in Libya?

The Libyan ones or NATO?


Are pilots really soldiers?  What if a sailor died?  How about civilians?  Do they count?  What if killing 1000 saves a million?  Does Diet Dr. Pepper really taste more like the Dr. Pepper?
 
2013-08-28 10:34:12 AM  

IdBeCrazyIf: And once things are settled down, we'll help them rebuild. We're doing the same thing in Libya. We blew up the asshole who was causing shiat, took a step back and said "Hey, we're here when you want us"


Look up, Libya was no success
 
2013-08-28 10:34:24 AM  
Just make sure we keep Asma safe. She's a hottie so that'd be a shame....

digitaljournal.com


Seriously though I work in a marketing so am pretty much a clueless hack on foreign policy. However, I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, and while flipping through the "experts" on Anderson Cooper, Greta, etc last night I took away a couple things that no one seemed to refute.

1. al Assad is a bad guy.

2. Whoever would replace al-Assad is far worse and we'd have another case of refuges running for the border while being slaughtered.

3. We don't know what this chemical substance is, or who ordered it.

4. We can't bomb the chemical warehouses, we don't want to "own" another situation so we're not bombing al-Assad and pretty much any target we choose will have little effect on Syria - but WILL cause unrest in other Arab countries and embolden them to make terrorist attacks as revenge.

So, as I have said in since being a college kid during the Clinton years... why do we want any part of the Middle East? It's a cluster fudge of insanity. Why don't we just buy our oil and wish them good luck? Either they will work it out eventually or finally blow up the whole damn place, correct?
 
2013-08-28 10:34:29 AM  

Tat'dGreaser: Considering I didn't vote for either of those guys. I'm so heavily invested in a political party that I cheer for death and destruction when it's my team on the helm.


Yeah, sure you didn't vote for Bush twice.
 
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