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(Gawker)   US intel agents intercepted phone calls FALSE FLAG from the Syrian Ministry of Defense FALSE FLAG asking their chemical weapons unit who in the fark told them FALSE FLAG to launch a chemical attack on a suburb full of civilians   (gawker.com) divider line 549
    More: Obvious, chemical warfares, Syrians, Syrian Ministry, syrian ministry of defense, special agents, chemical weapons unit, Secretary of State John Kerry, phone calls  
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10869 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Aug 2013 at 8:03 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-08-28 09:37:41 AM

Tatterdemalian: So in these phone calls, where the Syrian army isn't expecting anyone to listen to and presumably speaking candidly, show that they never authorized any chemical attacks, didn't expect their chemical weapons division to carry any out without said authorization, and were told by the chem division that they actually didn't carry out any such attacks.

This sort of thing makes it seem more like the rebels are carrying out chem attacks on themselves to manipulate the world into defending them, not less. Unless it's some sort of double bluff carried out in anticipation that US intel would tap that phone call, which, even after the whole NSA scandal, really isn't that likely when people are fighting for their lives.


This.

When the leadership's reaction is "wtf is going on" I don't call that "proof" that they were behind it.
 
2013-08-28 09:37:50 AM

vygramul: That's highly unlikely. Or the Assad regime is packed full of morons.


Given the actions up to this point, I figured this was a given
 
2013-08-28 09:38:53 AM

cameroncrazy1984: DubtodaIll: Target Builder: DubtodaIll:

No I'm hardly making any more money than I have been.  I haven't changed tax brackets, but the taxes coming out of my paycheck went up about 180 bucks on the same pay rate.

Unless you're talking about the expiration of the very temporary Payroll Tax cut you should probably speak to your accountant about that.

I can't afford an accountant.  And it was the Medicare/Medicade mostly and some from the payroll.

You might want to check with your payroll people then. Unless $180 equals about 2.5% of your income.


Someone may also want to mention the tax withholding is NOT the same was the taxes you will pay at the end of the year.  Review your W4, it is entirely possible you payroll depart screwed up, is staffed by idiots, or both.
 
2013-08-28 09:39:06 AM

Infernalist: Bombing those weapons would just create toxic clouds that would kill indiscriminately depends on how the wind is blowing.

Destroying CWs safely requires a specific procedure with specific equipment that basically revolves around incinerating them in a factory where they have no chance of releasing their toxins into the environment.


Which means a full invasion
 
2013-08-28 09:39:16 AM

Infernalist: DubtodaIll: Infernalist: DubtodaIll: liam76: DubtodaIll: I heard him say over and over again "if you're lower or middle classes, your taxes will not go up" and bam, 2012 comes around and my taxes go up

How much do youthink they would have gone up if he allowed the Bush tax cuts to expire completely (his only ohter option)?

Much more.


If you think leading is just choosing too bad options well then they've got you in their pocket.  A good leader is able to come up with his own ideas and gets them done.  Clinton, for example, was a great leader.  He was able to execute his policies, was able to reach beneficial compromises for both sides of the aisle and the nation thrived because of his ability to lead.  Anyway, I don't think either of us is going to change either's mind about whether or not Obama has been a good POTUS or not.

Well, to be honest, if Obama came out in favor of breathing, some people would suffocate themselves as a result.

Compromise requires both sides to be willing to work together and you can't honestly say that the GOP is willing to compromise with the WH on anything.  They change their stances depending on what the President says or does.  There's an amusing youtube video out there that has Newt Gingrich demanding that the President do something to support those Freedom-loving Libyan rebels...and then, less than a day later, Gingrich is lambasting the President for supporting those AQ-linked Libyan rebels.

The President 'tried' to compromise for nearly the entirety of his first term and it got him nothing.  Now, he's working around the GOP and good on him for it.  They've done nothing with their time in office, other than make stupid symbolic gestures and basically shiat the bed.

Right, Newt Gingrinch was a super easy guy to get along with but somehow Slick Willy was able to get things done.

I can't even decipher what you said there.  Try again.


You may want to look up who was the Speaker of the House during Clinton's Administration.  Obama only has Boehner to deal with and he still can't beat him.
 
2013-08-28 09:39:25 AM
cameroncrazy1984:

Invasion isn't the only "something" on the list, and the last time we did this it ended up with NATO airstrikes and nothing else.

True, and at present the discussion is to just do some symbolic and purposefully ineffective bombing of a country that presents no direct threat to the US, mainly to make sure people take threats seriously. Which even aside from the potential to lead into an escalating spiral of events is still a stupid idea.
 
2013-08-28 09:39:49 AM

Zeb Hesselgresser: Would the Taliban/AlQaeda/Islamo-psychos gas their own people to bait the US into expanding the conflict?

I think yes.


It's play #6 in the AQ playbook. Study it out.
 
2013-08-28 09:39:54 AM

DubtodaIll: Target Builder: DubtodaIll: Target Builder: DubtodaIll:

No I'm hardly making any more money than I have been.  I haven't changed tax brackets, but the taxes coming out of my paycheck went up about 180 bucks on the same pay rate.

Unless you're talking about the expiration of the very temporary Payroll Tax cut you should probably speak to your accountant about that.

I can't afford an accountant.  And it was the Medicare/Medicade mostly and some from the payroll.

The extra income tax could only have been due to the additional tax on the small pay rise you mention. The medicare/medicaid is due to the expiration of the temporary payroll tax break that started in 2011 and ended in 2012 and the small amount of extra income you mention.

No other federal income taxes have changed for you.

Right, and I was told by my President that none of them would go up.  It's not like I'm surprised, but I don't see why you're trying to convince me the President is a man of his word when even his rhetoric turns out to be bull.


Wait - he briefly lowered them, and that counts as raising them?
 
2013-08-28 09:40:15 AM

Headso: cameroncrazy1984: Invasion isn't the only "something" on the list, and the last time we did this it ended up with NATO airstrikes and nothing else.

The way it sounded they were not even talking about a sustained thing like serbia it's going to be a limited strike with cruise missiles and they have been talking about it for days now so everyone knows it is coming. It's like military theater a meaningless show because they know they have to "do something", there's something morally reprehensible about it and it will kill people for no reason but not Americans.


"For no reason"? If they're targeted strikes then we're going after some of their military facilities that were involved in the attack (if it's proven that this was military). How is that without reason?
 
2013-08-28 09:40:15 AM

Headso: cameroncrazy1984: Invasion isn't the only "something" on the list, and the last time we did this it ended up with NATO airstrikes and nothing else.

The way it sounded they were not even talking about a sustained thing like serbia it's going to be a limited strike with cruise missiles and they have been talking about it for days now so everyone knows it is coming. It's like military theater a meaningless show because they know they have to "do something", there's something morally reprehensible about it and it will kill people for no reason but not Americans.


....and hopefully no Russians or Chinese... of course, the Iranians will launch against Israel before the fires are out in Syria. All because no one knows for sure what actually happened, but SOMETHING has to be done. and that SOMETHING is OBVIOUSLY bombing and shooting... I hope none of you Farkers got kids in the draft age range...

Tell me again how the whole Peace Prize thing works again?
 
2013-08-28 09:40:50 AM

vygramul: Infernalist: vygramul: Infernalist: tirob: All right, *now* I'm confused.

Is this a case of:

a)  A Syrian army officer, outwardly an Assad loyalist but secretly sympathetic to the rebels, who ordered his troops to use chemical weapons in an attempt to discredit the government and possibly provoke a US intervention?

or

b) The Syrian Ministry of defense, surmising that the CIA/NSA was listening in on the line, trying to present this whole episode as a command screwup, rather than as an act ordered from the top, in an attempt to evade responsibility for the chemical attack and possibly prevent a US intervention?

or

c) Something else?

If I had to guess, I'd say:

c) Some lower ranking field officer made the horrible mistake of using CWs on his own volition.

That's highly unlikely. Or the Assad regime is packed full of morons.

You say that as if that's an unlikely prospect.

Long-term dictators don't tend to make the fundamental mistake of putting the authority of using regime-changing WMDs in the hands of lower-level field officers.


The calls indicate otherwise.  As has been noted in the past, the US has straight up LOST nuclear weapons in past.  And that was without the pressure of a violent civilian insurrection to stress things up.

The possibility of CWs being used by mistake by some lower level flunkies is entirely possible and even probable, as it would allow both sides to right at the same time.
 
2013-08-28 09:41:01 AM

DubtodaIll: Right, and I was told by my President that none of them would go up.  It's not like I'm surprised, but I don't see why you're trying to convince me the President is a man of his word when even his rhetoric turns out to be bull.


A) Your FICA tax didn't go up and B) He never said they wouldn't go up if you made more money, you dumbass.
 
2013-08-28 09:41:09 AM

Elegy: pnome: Yeah, let's just stand back and let all the evil shiatheads of the world gas people.  We have public school teachers who need raises.

Pretty much. The world is a pretty big place, and I fail to see why we have a vested interest in stopping the two sides of this conflict - both of which are filled with evil shiatheads - from offing each other.

Stand down the military, give the teachers a raise. Sounds like a plan to me.


Your plan sounds wonderful, if it was only the evil shaitheads offing each other.  Somehow I don't think all those kids in body bags we saw last week were evil.  Nerve gas doesn't discriminate.
 
2013-08-28 09:41:22 AM

heavymetal: Even though I trust the Obama Administration way more than I trusted the GW Bush administration


You really really shouldn't. Like Bush press secretary Ari Fleischer said, "Obama is carrying out Bush's fourth term."
 
2013-08-28 09:41:48 AM

cameroncrazy1984: DubtodaIll: Right, and I was told by my President that none of them would go up.  It's not like I'm surprised, but I don't see why you're trying to convince me the President is a man of his word when even his rhetoric turns out to be bull.

A) Your FICA tax didn't go up and B) He never said they wouldn't go up if you made more money, you dumbass.


I'm not making more money...I'm taking home less.
 
2013-08-28 09:42:02 AM

Tat'dGreaser: Infernalist: Bombing those weapons would just create toxic clouds that would kill indiscriminately depends on how the wind is blowing.

Destroying CWs safely requires a specific procedure with specific equipment that basically revolves around incinerating them in a factory where they have no chance of releasing their toxins into the environment.

Which means a full invasion


By whom?  Not us.  Let the Arab League supply the troops.  Or Turkey.  Or Russia.
 
2013-08-28 09:42:22 AM

Target Builder: True, and at present the discussion is to just do some symbolic and purposefully ineffective


[citation needed]

Or did you think the Libya bombings were ineffective as well?
 
2013-08-28 09:42:53 AM

Tat'dGreaser: Infernalist: Bombing those weapons would just create toxic clouds that would kill indiscriminately depends on how the wind is blowing.

Destroying CWs safely requires a specific procedure with specific equipment that basically revolves around incinerating them in a factory where they have no chance of releasing their toxins into the environment.

Which means a full invasion


It'd be nice if we could have people put money where their mouths are. Where's intrade when you need it? It was nice to have a place where bullshiat walked.
 
2013-08-28 09:43:07 AM

DubtodaIll: Infernalist: DubtodaIll: Infernalist: DubtodaIll: liam76: DubtodaIll: I heard him say over and over again "if you're lower or middle classes, your taxes will not go up" and bam, 2012 comes around and my taxes go up

How much do youthink they would have gone up if he allowed the Bush tax cuts to expire completely (his only ohter option)?

Much more.


If you think leading is just choosing too bad options well then they've got you in their pocket.  A good leader is able to come up with his own ideas and gets them done.  Clinton, for example, was a great leader.  He was able to execute his policies, was able to reach beneficial compromises for both sides of the aisle and the nation thrived because of his ability to lead.  Anyway, I don't think either of us is going to change either's mind about whether or not Obama has been a good POTUS or not.

Well, to be honest, if Obama came out in favor of breathing, some people would suffocate themselves as a result.

Compromise requires both sides to be willing to work together and you can't honestly say that the GOP is willing to compromise with the WH on anything.  They change their stances depending on what the President says or does.  There's an amusing youtube video out there that has Newt Gingrich demanding that the President do something to support those Freedom-loving Libyan rebels...and then, less than a day later, Gingrich is lambasting the President for supporting those AQ-linked Libyan rebels.

The President 'tried' to compromise for nearly the entirety of his first term and it got him nothing.  Now, he's working around the GOP and good on him for it.  They've done nothing with their time in office, other than make stupid symbolic gestures and basically shiat the bed.

Right, Newt Gingrinch was a super easy guy to get along with but somehow Slick Willy was able to get things done.

I can't even decipher what you said there.  Try again.

You may want to look up who was the Speaker of the House during Clinton's Adminis ...


There's no 'beating' Boehner, no matter how much you might want to see Obama beating him.  Compromise requires both sides to work together.  Since the GOP won't do it, I'm happy to see the WH working around them and without them.
 
2013-08-28 09:43:10 AM

DubtodaIll: cameroncrazy1984: DubtodaIll: Right, and I was told by my President that none of them would go up.  It's not like I'm surprised, but I don't see why you're trying to convince me the President is a man of his word when even his rhetoric turns out to be bull.

A) Your FICA tax didn't go up and B) He never said they wouldn't go up if you made more money, you dumbass.

I'm not making more money...I'm taking home less.


Then check on your W4, because unless you're making $400k a year, your taxes didn't go up.
 
2013-08-28 09:43:17 AM

DubtodaIll: liam76: DubtodaIll: I heard him say over and over again "if you're lower or middle classes, your taxes will not go up" and bam, 2012 comes around and my taxes go up

How much do youthink they would have gone up if he allowed the Bush tax cuts to expire completely (his only ohter option)?

Much more.


If you think leading is just choosing too bad options well then they've got you in their pocket.  A good leader is able to come up with his own ideas and gets them done.  Clinton, for example, was a great leader.  He was able to execute his policies, was able to reach beneficial compromises for both sides of the aisle and the nation thrived because of his ability to lead.  Anyway, I don't think either of us is going to change either's mind about whether or not Obama has been a good POTUS or not.


Clinton's compromise was what largely led to the financial breakdown we are getting out of.

Clinton was also not dealing teatards who have painted him as the antichrist.

For you to think the two situations are close show incredable ignorance of the climate in congress.
 
2013-08-28 09:43:46 AM

vygramul: Tat'dGreaser: Infernalist: Bombing those weapons would just create toxic clouds that would kill indiscriminately depends on how the wind is blowing.

Destroying CWs safely requires a specific procedure with specific equipment that basically revolves around incinerating them in a factory where they have no chance of releasing their toxins into the environment.

Which means a full invasion

It'd be nice if we could have people put money where their mouths are. Where's intrade when you need it? It was nice to have a place where bullshiat walked.


This would be a good prop bet. I'd take the opposite.
 
2013-08-28 09:44:17 AM

cameroncrazy1984: DubtodaIll: cameroncrazy1984: DubtodaIll: Right, and I was told by my President that none of them would go up.  It's not like I'm surprised, but I don't see why you're trying to convince me the President is a man of his word when even his rhetoric turns out to be bull.

A) Your FICA tax didn't go up and B) He never said they wouldn't go up if you made more money, you dumbass.

I'm not making more money...I'm taking home less.

Then check on your W4, because unless you're making $400k a year, your taxes didn't go up.


Why are you so sure of that?  and Duck Fuke.
 
2013-08-28 09:44:18 AM

BostonEMT: Headso: cameroncrazy1984: Invasion isn't the only "something" on the list, and the last time we did this it ended up with NATO airstrikes and nothing else.

The way it sounded they were not even talking about a sustained thing like serbia it's going to be a limited strike with cruise missiles and they have been talking about it for days now so everyone knows it is coming. It's like military theater a meaningless show because they know they have to "do something", there's something morally reprehensible about it and it will kill people for no reason but not Americans.

....and hopefully no Russians or Chinese... of course, the Iranians will launch against Israel before the fires are out in Syria. All because no one knows for sure what actually happened, but SOMETHING has to be done. and that SOMETHING is OBVIOUSLY bombing and shooting... I hope none of you Farkers got kids in the draft age range...

Tell me again how the whole Peace Prize thing works again?


Apparently, the Peace Prize requires allowing chemical weapons attacks.
 
2013-08-28 09:45:16 AM

vygramul: neversubmit: vygramul: Assad's commanders believe it was their own attack, but people here know better.

Caveat emptor

That applies even more to people who buy the false-flag narrative pushed by people with a financial interest in getting page clicks from those who find conspiracies entertaining.


As apposed to people with a financial interest in making war?

Like the New York Times that put the launch area inside rebel controlled land.
 
2013-08-28 09:45:34 AM

DubtodaIll: cameroncrazy1984: DubtodaIll: cameroncrazy1984: DubtodaIll: Right, and I was told by my President that none of them would go up.  It's not like I'm surprised, but I don't see why you're trying to convince me the President is a man of his word when even his rhetoric turns out to be bull.

A) Your FICA tax didn't go up and B) He never said they wouldn't go up if you made more money, you dumbass.

I'm not making more money...I'm taking home less.

Then check on your W4, because unless you're making $400k a year, your taxes didn't go up.

Why are you so sure of that?  and Duck Fuke.


Because I understand the US tax code and I have an entire family full of IRS enrolled agents.
 
2013-08-28 09:45:45 AM

generallyso: heavymetal: Even though I trust the Obama Administration way more than I trusted the GW Bush administration

You really really shouldn't. Like Bush press secretary Ari Fleischer said, "Obama is carrying out Bush's fourth term."


If Ari Fleischer told me the sky was blue, I'd have to go outside and check.  The man was Bush's PR guy forever and a day and a consummate sociopathic liar.
 
2013-08-28 09:45:49 AM

cameroncrazy1984: Headso: cameroncrazy1984: Invasion isn't the only "something" on the list, and the last time we did this it ended up with NATO airstrikes and nothing else.

The way it sounded they were not even talking about a sustained thing like serbia it's going to be a limited strike with cruise missiles and they have been talking about it for days now so everyone knows it is coming. It's like military theater a meaningless show because they know they have to "do something", there's something morally reprehensible about it and it will kill people for no reason but not Americans.

"For no reason"? If they're targeted strikes then we're going after some of their military facilities that were involved in the attack (if it's proven that this was military). How is that without reason?


they've been talking about it for days now, why would anyone be at those facilities that matters and collateral damage is a thing, one of those missiles could easily kill civilians. The fakeness of the whole thing is why it is so morally wrong, this is nothing but theater but one where people will be killed.
 
2013-08-28 09:46:07 AM

Infernalist: There's no 'beating' Boehner, no matter how much you might want to see Obama beating him. Compromise requires both sides to work together. Since the GOP won't do it, I'm happy to see the WH working around them and without them


This.

A fair amoun of Boehner's side wnats to boot him out for talking to Obama.

For fark's sake the healthcare plan that we have no has roots in Newt's is some of Newt's plans.  To pretend there is the same kind of right wing crazy in the House now is bananas.
 
2013-08-28 09:46:07 AM

Infernalist: Well, to be honest, if Obama came out in favor of breathing, some people would suffocate themselves as a result.


Which is why conservatives sounds like a bunch of terrorists today when they spin Clinton's attack on chemical weapons facilities as bombing a baby milk factory.

I find all this to be another example of why we should have a draft: too many people casually committing to the horror of war who know nothing of it or its cost.

And finally, how we gonna pay for it?
 
2013-08-28 09:46:52 AM

DubtodaIll: Target Builder: DubtodaIll: Target Builder: DubtodaIll:

No I'm hardly making any more money than I have been.  I haven't changed tax brackets, but the taxes coming out of my paycheck went up about 180 bucks on the same pay rate.

Unless you're talking about the expiration of the very temporary Payroll Tax cut you should probably speak to your accountant about that.

I can't afford an accountant.  And it was the Medicare/Medicade mostly and some from the payroll.

The extra income tax could only have been due to the additional tax on the small pay rise you mention. The medicare/medicaid is due to the expiration of the temporary payroll tax break that started in 2011 and ended in 2012 and the small amount of extra income you mention.

No other federal income taxes have changed for you.

Right, and I was told by my President that none of them would go up.  It's not like I'm surprised, but I don't see why you're trying to convince me the President is a man of his word when even his rhetoric turns out to be bull.


Tax withholding from your pay check is not the same as what you owe at the end of the year.  Do you usually get a refund from giving the Federal Government a free loan for the year?  Is so, change your farking W4 so you are withholding so much.  Of course if you can't budget and pay your taxes come April 15, then you may want to keep the extra coming out so you get a that fun check from the Feds when you file.

Now if you want to be taken seriously, tell us the number of dependents you file with and your approximate income from the last year and what you expect for this year.  It is farking dead simple to look up the tax rates for each to see where you fall and if you taxes did really go up $4,860 ($180*26-- assuming biweekly).
 
2013-08-28 09:47:24 AM

cameroncrazy1984: "For no reason"? If they're targeted strikes then we're going after some of their military facilities that were involved in the attack (if it's proven that this was military). How is that without reason?


The 'reason' we'd be making the strikes is because we said we would. The sites that launched the strikes are probably going to be targeted because, hey, the bombs have to land somewhere. The discussion I've seen has also suggested that they are going to try to target the strikes in a way that won't really tip the balance of the civil war - so it's not really even to contribute to ousting Assad, it's just to slap him around the face a bit.
 
2013-08-28 09:47:24 AM

Infernalist: By whom?  Not us.  Let the Arab League supply the troops.  Or Turkey.  Or Russia.


That's my point, we shouldn't even spend money on bombs for this bullsh*t.

The only way to fully stop chemical attacks is a full on invasion. Either sh*t or get off the pot that doesn't even want us there
 
2013-08-28 09:47:29 AM

Headso: they've been talking about it for days now, why would anyone be at those facilities that matters and collateral damage is a thing, one of those missiles could easily kill civilians.


"Could easily" and "would"

I think you're just making up things to be mad about at this point.
 
2013-08-28 09:48:12 AM

Target Builder: The 'reason' we'd be making the strikes is because we said we would because Syria used chemical weapons on their own people.


Just so we're clear on the reason we said we would.
 
2013-08-28 09:48:21 AM

wingnut396: DubtodaIll: Target Builder: DubtodaIll: Target Builder: DubtodaIll:

No I'm hardly making any more money than I have been.  I haven't changed tax brackets, but the taxes coming out of my paycheck went up about 180 bucks on the same pay rate.

Unless you're talking about the expiration of the very temporary Payroll Tax cut you should probably speak to your accountant about that.

I can't afford an accountant.  And it was the Medicare/Medicade mostly and some from the payroll.

The extra income tax could only have been due to the additional tax on the small pay rise you mention. The medicare/medicaid is due to the expiration of the temporary payroll tax break that started in 2011 and ended in 2012 and the small amount of extra income you mention.

No other federal income taxes have changed for you.

Right, and I was told by my President that none of them would go up.  It's not like I'm surprised, but I don't see why you're trying to convince me the President is a man of his word when even his rhetoric turns out to be bull.

Tax withholding from your pay check is not the same as what you owe at the end of the year.  Do you usually get a refund from giving the Federal Government a free loan for the year?  Is so, change your farking W4 so you are withholding so much.  Of course if you can't budget and pay your taxes come April 15, then you may want to keep the extra coming out so you get a that fun check from the Feds when you file.

Now if you want to be taken seriously, tell us the number of dependents you file with and your approximate income from the last year and what you expect for this year.  It is farking dead simple to look up the tax rates for each to see where you fall and if you taxes did really go up $4,860 ($180*26-- assuming biweekly).


You people are arguing with a paid shill.   I hope you all realize that.
 
2013-08-28 09:48:28 AM
Manufactured Syrian war scare pushed NSA off the front page.

So that happen, which is nice for them.
 
2013-08-28 09:48:33 AM

LasersHurt: I love how people are pre-emptively so pissed at the war Obama's gotten us into. Soon. Will have gotten us into. Definitely. This is the same as Iraq. Or will have been.


Infernalist: cameroncrazy1984: My favorite thing about these threads is all the same people comparing Syria to Iraq were comparing Libya to Iraq a couple years ago. And they're saying it without a single sense of irony.

a lot of people are absolutely determined for Obama to have his own version of Iraq.  And Katrina.  And 911.


Obama is the REAL victim in all of this.
 
2013-08-28 09:50:13 AM

Tat'dGreaser: Infernalist: By whom?  Not us.  Let the Arab League supply the troops.  Or Turkey.  Or Russia.

That's my point, we shouldn't even spend money on bombs for this bullsh*t.

The only way to fully stop chemical attacks is a full on invasion. Either sh*t or get off the pot that doesn't even want us there


I'd be in favor of an air campaign IF we had a nation willing to supply the occupation troops to back up the rebels and ensure that a non-insane government takes control after Assad's departure.

The Libyan rebels didn't require occupation troops, officially, but they got lots of neighborly help from the Arab League nations.  The same thing is needed here.
 
2013-08-28 09:50:19 AM

Infernalist:

The calls indicate otherwise.  As has been noted in the past, the US has straight up LOST nuclear weapons in past.  And that was without the pressure of a violent civilian insurrection to stress things up.


We're not a dictatorship and even our military's culture is one of civilian control. That makes a difference.

The possibility of CWs being used by mistake by some lower level flunkies is entirely possible and even probable, as it would allow both sides to right at the same time.

No, weapons like that simply do not get released to the flunkies without intending to use them.
 
2013-08-28 09:50:24 AM
So the Syrian Defense Ministry is on tape basically asking who the fark authorized or who the fark launched those WMDs.......but the article doesn't say what the CW units response was....it could have been "I don't know".

The CW units response is the important part of the conversation......

It's almost like the Zimmerman threads....yes Zimmemran shot Martin, and people wanted to leave out the important part of the scenario, ie...that Martin was on top of Zimmerman bashing his head against the concrete when he was shot.
 
2013-08-28 09:50:50 AM
Infernalist: You people are arguing with a paid shill.   I hope you all realize that.

And it's off topic if only this thread was moderated, if only...
 
2013-08-28 09:51:09 AM

Infernalist: You people are arguing with a paid shill.   I hope you all realize tha


Well, we need somebody to pay the taxes so I can sit around all in my Section 8 housing with posting on Fark with my Obama phone and eating government cheese!
 
2013-08-28 09:51:16 AM

Headso: cameroncrazy1984: Invasion isn't the only "something" on the list, and the last time we did this it ended up with NATO airstrikes and nothing else.

The way it sounded they were not even talking about a sustained thing like serbia it's going to be a limited strike with cruise missiles and they have been talking about it for days now so everyone knows it is coming. It's like military theater a meaningless show because they know they have to "do something", there's something morally reprehensible about it and it will kill people for no reason but not Americans.


Even worse:  Since it's been talked about endlessly, the Syrians know it's coming, and they will take extraordinary measures to try and mitigate the effects.  They will move their assets, perhaps even continuously.  There is a certain irreduceable amount of time from observing something, noting its location, transmitting that information to the platforms tasked with firing at them, and of course the flight time of the missiles in question from launch to impact.

If it takes 2 hours for that entire loop (which seems awfully fast to me for a decision that must be made in the Pentagon), you could mitigate that by moving your chemical weapon assets on a rotating schedule every few hours.

Also, since it's largely a given that the attack will take place at night, both to prevent spotters from seeing the missiles and reporting them and to minimize civilian casualties, moving the assets at dusk every day will provide a large amount of protection.

The other thing to consider is that a large number of the CW assets the Assad regime are indistinguishable from the air, and they are very resistant to attack.   An artillery shell loaded with sarin looks the same as one loaded with high explosives from any possible surveillance asset we might have.
 
2013-08-28 09:51:24 AM

muck4doo: LasersHurt: I love how people are pre-emptively so pissed at the war Obama's gotten us into. Soon. Will have gotten us into. Definitely. This is the same as Iraq. Or will have been.

Infernalist: cameroncrazy1984: My favorite thing about these threads is all the same people comparing Syria to Iraq were comparing Libya to Iraq a couple years ago. And they're saying it without a single sense of irony.

a lot of people are absolutely determined for Obama to have his own version of Iraq.  And Katrina.  And 911.

Obama is the REAL victim in all of this.


Because god forbid we wait a minute and see what he does before we tell him he did it wrong.
 
2013-08-28 09:51:35 AM

Infernalist: I'd be in favor of an air campaign IF we had a nation willing to supply the occupation troops to back up the rebels and ensure that a non-insane government takes control after Assad's departure.

The Libyan rebels didn't require occupation troops, officially, but they got lots of neighborly help from the Arab League nations.  The same thing is needed here.


Why!?!?! We shouldn't have even been in Libya. WHO THE F*CK IS PAYING FOR THIS???
 
2013-08-28 09:51:40 AM

DubtodaIll: Right, and I was told by my President that none of them would go up. It's not like I'm surprised, but I don't see why you're trying to convince me the President is a man of his word when even his rhetoric turns out to be bull.


Dude. A temporary 2% cut on payroll tax expired. He didn't raise the income tax at all.  What part of that are you having trouble understanding?
 
2013-08-28 09:52:01 AM

cameroncrazy1984: Headso: they've been talking about it for days now, why would anyone be at those facilities that matters and collateral damage is a thing, one of those missiles could easily kill civilians.

"Could easily" and "would"

I think you're just making up things to be mad about at this point.


you honestly believe this is going to be a meaningful military strike?
 
2013-08-28 09:52:26 AM

liam76: DubtodaIll: liam76: DubtodaIll: I heard him say over and over again "if you're lower or middle classes, your taxes will not go up" and bam, 2012 comes around and my taxes go up

How much do youthink they would have gone up if he allowed the Bush tax cuts to expire completely (his only ohter option)?

Much more.


If you think leading is just choosing too bad options well then they've got you in their pocket.  A good leader is able to come up with his own ideas and gets them done.  Clinton, for example, was a great leader.  He was able to execute his policies, was able to reach beneficial compromises for both sides of the aisle and the nation thrived because of his ability to lead.  Anyway, I don't think either of us is going to change either's mind about whether or not Obama has been a good POTUS or not.

Clinton's compromise was what largely led to the financial breakdown we are getting out of.

Clinton was also not dealing teatards who have painted him as the antichrist.

For you to think the two situations are close show incredable ignorance of the climate in congress.


You're right in that's it's incredibly hard to deal with a party whose primary role is to stop all new taxes.  That does put a damper on things if what you want to do requires you spend more money you don't have.  Perhaps you could take a different tact, like rooting out corruption and waste that would save billions, which coincidentally is part of the platform he ran on to get elected with him being a "Washington Outsider" and all.
 
2013-08-28 09:52:51 AM

FLMountainMan: For the love of God, stay the fark out of Syria.

"The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation," Obama in 2008.

lol.


Joe Biden stated he'd impeach Bush if he attacked Iran without Congressional approval.  But, yeah, its okay when my team does it.
 
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