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(Gawker)   US intel agents intercepted phone calls FALSE FLAG from the Syrian Ministry of Defense FALSE FLAG asking their chemical weapons unit who in the fark told them FALSE FLAG to launch a chemical attack on a suburb full of civilians   (gawker.com ) divider line
    More: Obvious, chemical warfares, Syrians, Syrian Ministry, syrian ministry of defense, special agents, chemical weapons unit, Secretary of State John Kerry, phone calls  
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10886 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Aug 2013 at 8:03 AM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-08-28 09:15:51 AM  

pnome: Yeah, let's just stand back and let all the evil shiatheads of the world gas people.  We have public school teachers who need raises.


How about if the people getting gassed are ALSO evil shiatheads?
 
2013-08-28 09:16:17 AM  

PunGent: two-biatchickenhawks


Righteous filter-pwn. I.m saving that one.
 
2013-08-28 09:16:33 AM  

Greek: Slaxl: I still lean toward it being genuine, it's not like the Iraq war claim of 45 minutes, and tenuous stories about yellowcake, and GWB making the claim that Iraq sponsors tourism.

I laughed way too hard at this mistake. I'm imagining Saddam Hussein- the bedraggled one we pulled from the spider hole- exhorting people to come see beautiful Iraq- the historic and lovely river banks of Mesopotamia, the blue mosque, the shelling of innocent Kurds... You know, tourism!


Actually what you didn't get was the real reason we invaded was truly tourism.  See, the UAE was in the process of building Ferrari World at Yaz Island.  Saddam was in talks to construct Lambo Universe near their part of the Gulf as well.  The problem is that some say Yaz had contracted Disney to help build it all out, and well, just study out it out from there..
 
2013-08-28 09:16:35 AM  

pxlboy: PunGent: You'd turn it off when I was halfway across: give me doughnuts: SockMonkeyHolocaust: Just for old times sake, let's get Colin Powell up in front of the UN to make the case that Syria can deploy those weapons in 45... no 25 minutes and they have mobile labs and that's why we don't know where they are but remember Knight Rider? He had that garage in the back of a trailer truck.

Perhaps you'd care to ask him what he thinks about Syria?

Remind me, why should anyone care what that lying shiat-heel's says ever again?

"I have no affection for Mr. Assad. I've dealt with him. I know him. And he is a pathological liar, with respect to my interaction with him," Powell said.

Oh right, comedy.

I'm actually willing to cut Powell a bit of slack on that whole fiasco...I think he was criminally mis-led, rather than deliberately, personally mendacious.  You're right, though, he still has a HUGE credibility gap...someone operating at that level shouldn't be hoodwinked by two-biatchickenhawks.

Amusing filterpwn


Heh...I didn't see THAT coming...
 
2013-08-28 09:17:04 AM  

PunGent: As opposed to every other president in the television era?  or ever?

The self-effacing rarely seek high office.


So very much this.  It's the people who are positive that they know what is better for you that seek positions of power.

Think about that.
 
2013-08-28 09:17:24 AM  

FullMetalPanda: So did Assad kill Obama's grandma or something because he seems to be the reincarnate of Bush on the lead up to the invasion of Iraq.


No this is even more incompetent and less by the books.
 
2013-08-28 09:17:44 AM  

FlashHarry: just curious - if this is a "false flag" operation, what does obama have to gain by it? military intervention in syria is less popular than congress right now. plus it will be expensive. plus it will divert attention from the implementation of obamacare, which really needs to go as smoothly as possible for obama to secure his legacy.



If it was a false flag operation it was probably conducted by the rebels and not the US or any other foreign power. The rebels are losing according to the accounts I've seen so goading someone into attacking the Assad government might be something they would attempt.
 
2013-08-28 09:17:49 AM  

Esroc: FlashHarry: just curious - if this is a "false flag" operation, what does obama have to gain by it? military intervention in syria is less popular than congress right now. plus it will be expensive. plus it will divert attention from the implementation of obamacare, which really needs to go as smoothly as possible for obama to secure his legacy.

i just don't see any up side. if there were, obama would have engaged in syria long ago.

Follow the money. It's always about money.


Also, study it out.
 
2013-08-28 09:18:26 AM  

Neighborhood Watch: Infernalist: a lot of people are absolutely determined for Obama to have his own version of Iraq.  And Katrina.  And 911.


He's doing a pretty good job on his own.


Yeah look at him, eating crackers like he owns the place.
 
2013-08-28 09:18:30 AM  

violentsalvation: Right... Are we blaming Israel yet or are we blaming this "false flag" operation on ourselves?

If you don't want us to take part in their conflict then you can say it. I'll respect your opinion, I'm luke warm on the idea myself. But this headline is silly.


Without direct American or Israeli involvement, it's also plausible that any number of nations or organizations paid Syrian officers to do this for any number of reasons.

Likewise, it's plausible that the calls were placed in order to build a cover story.

What is implausible is that we know everything that's going on.

/ They feed the pilots carrots to improve their eyesight. We should all eat carrots to improve our eyesight.
 
2013-08-28 09:18:54 AM  

IdBeCrazyIf: So basically the government has broken down and whoever controls these chemical weapons could use them or even possibly lose control of them at any moment?

Tell me why again we haven't turned any chemical installations we are aware of into ash again?


What do bombs cost these days? Like five bucks a pop?
 
2013-08-28 09:19:05 AM  

generallyso: Esroc: May we wipe ourselves off this planet, but leave nature intact.

You first.

PunGent: Be ironic if we get out into the universe, and discover it's even MORE poorly-run by other species...

Just as long as they don't write poetry...


I'd like to share with you an ode I wrote to a lump of putty I found in my armpit this morning...
 
2013-08-28 09:19:21 AM  

USP .45: FullMetalPanda: So did Assad kill Obama's grandma or something because he seems to be the reincarnate of Bush on the lead up to the invasion of Iraq.

No this is even more incompetent and less by the books.


Sounds like it. Definitely sounds like the Syrian army has some incompetent people, if this story is correct.

/or is that not what you meant?
 
2013-08-28 09:21:33 AM  

USP .45: FullMetalPanda: So did Assad kill Obama's grandma or something because he seems to be the reincarnate of Bush on the lead up to the invasion of Iraq.

No this is even more incompetent and less by the books.


it's retarded but the magnitude of retardation is no where near the level where you have 100K+ troops on the ground. They are going to shoot some missiles into syria which pretty much will do nothing except probably kill some either innocent people or people involved but at a low level.
 
2013-08-28 09:21:35 AM  

DubtodaIll: liam76: DubtodaIll: liam76: DubtodaIll: but this situation is another example of how he makes a great speech and then does something else

What speech are you talking about and what do you want hiom to do?

I think the "redline" was stupid, but he hasn't "done something else".  You can't make that claim unless you are certain assad launched the chemical weapons.

I'd take the time to find a quote about him having the most transparent administration ever from his inauguration or something but it's too early in the morning.  Also drones, also NSA, also raising my taxes even though I'm lower middle class, also etc. etc. etc.

The drones and NSA I agree are wrong, however he didn't really have all the info when he was giving his innaguration speech.

You can't complain about the taxes with a straight face, or if you can you may want to take a look at how tax codes are created in the US.

I heard him say over and over again "if you're lower or middle classes, your taxes will not go up" and bam, 2012 comes around and my taxes go up.


The President sets the tax rates?  And, did your TAX go up, or did your RATE go up?  Because...two different things.
Making more money than you did last year, and therefore paying more taxes?  Oh, the humanity...
 
2013-08-28 09:21:46 AM  

neversubmit: Saudis offer Russia secret oil deal if it drops Syria

Saudi Arabia has secretly offered Russia a sweeping deal to control the global oil market and safeguard Russia's gas contracts, if the Kremlin backs away from the Assad regime in Syria.
The revelations come amid high tension in the Middle East, with US, British, and French warships poised for missile strikes against Syria, and Iran threatening to retaliate. The strategic jitters pushed Brent crude prices to a five-month high of $US112 a barrel.

The Putin-Bandar meeting took place three weeks ago. Mr Putin was unmoved by the Saudi offer.

Or maybe not, looks like Putin wont be bribed.



China and Russia hate the USA more than they love money.  They can get money anywhere.
 
2013-08-28 09:22:34 AM  

Headso: USP .45: FullMetalPanda: So did Assad kill Obama's grandma or something because he seems to be the reincarnate of Bush on the lead up to the invasion of Iraq.

No this is even more incompetent and less by the books.

it's retarded but the magnitude of retardation is no where near the level where you have 100K+ troops on the ground. They are going to shoot some missiles into syria which pretty much will do nothing except probably kill some either innocent people or people involved but at a low level.


I honestly cannot believe anyone is even trying to say that the rhetoric/discussion now is the same as or worse then the actual ground invasion of Iraq.
 
2013-08-28 09:23:28 AM  

Tyrone Slothrop: Carth: paulseta: Ah, the Middle East - where everyone is wrong, and everyone is armed.

An armed society is a polite society!

Heinlein never considered a society where people are willing to die for what they believe in. There are stronger motivations than self preservation and fear.



I can see by that statement that you've never read any Heinlein. Not even "Beyound This Horizon."
 
2013-08-28 09:23:53 AM  

liam76: DubtodaIll: I heard him say over and over again "if you're lower or middle classes, your taxes will not go up" and bam, 2012 comes around and my taxes go up

How much do youthink they would have gone up if he allowed the Bush tax cuts to expire completely (his only ohter option)?

Much more.



If you think leading is just choosing too bad options well then they've got you in their pocket.  A good leader is able to come up with his own ideas and gets them done.  Clinton, for example, was a great leader.  He was able to execute his policies, was able to reach beneficial compromises for both sides of the aisle and the nation thrived because of his ability to lead.  Anyway, I don't think either of us is going to change either's mind about whether or not Obama has been a good POTUS or not.
 
2013-08-28 09:24:06 AM  

Tat'dGreaser: IdBeCrazyIf: So basically the government has broken down and whoever controls these chemical weapons could use them or even possibly lose control of them at any moment?

Tell me why again we haven't turned any chemical installations we are aware of into ash again?

What do bombs cost these days? Like five bucks a pop?


Bombing those weapons would just create toxic clouds that would kill indiscriminately depends on how the wind is blowing.

Destroying CWs safely requires a specific procedure with specific equipment that basically revolves around incinerating them in a factory where they have no chance of releasing their toxins into the environment.
 
2013-08-28 09:24:13 AM  

ZzeusS: China and Russia hate the USA more than they love money.  They can get money anywhere.


Except that the US market is much larger than any other single market in the world. If they hated the US so much they wouldn't sell everything to us.
 
2013-08-28 09:25:07 AM  
"Hello, um Alan be praised!" *muffled whispers arguing*

"Allah be praised!"

"Say bro ... ther, we are going use those chemical weapons. Specially, [technical terms for chemical agents]."

"Yes, we are."
 
2013-08-28 09:25:13 AM  
So this morning on NPR they were talking about why the US needs to do something, the summary seemed to be "We need to do something because we said we'd do something and if we don't we'll lose credibility in the Middle East".

Think about that for a minute.

We might end up invading another country which presents no direct threat to the US, at the cost the lives of US servicemen, long term disability of US servicemen, billions/trillions of dollars and who knows how many civilian casualties, just so people know to take our threats seriously.
 
2013-08-28 09:25:32 AM  

PunGent: DubtodaIll: liam76: DubtodaIll: liam76: DubtodaIll: but this situation is another example of how he makes a great speech and then does something else

What speech are you talking about and what do you want hiom to do?

I think the "redline" was stupid, but he hasn't "done something else".  You can't make that claim unless you are certain assad launched the chemical weapons.

I'd take the time to find a quote about him having the most transparent administration ever from his inauguration or something but it's too early in the morning.  Also drones, also NSA, also raising my taxes even though I'm lower middle class, also etc. etc. etc.

The drones and NSA I agree are wrong, however he didn't really have all the info when he was giving his innaguration speech.

You can't complain about the taxes with a straight face, or if you can you may want to take a look at how tax codes are created in the US.

I heard him say over and over again "if you're lower or middle classes, your taxes will not go up" and bam, 2012 comes around and my taxes go up.

The President sets the tax rates?  And, did your TAX go up, or did your RATE go up?  Because...two different things.
Making more money than you did last year, and therefore paying more taxes?  Oh, the humanity...


No I'm hardly making any more money than I have been.  I haven't changed tax brackets, but the taxes coming out of my paycheck went up about 180 bucks on the same pay rate.
 
2013-08-28 09:27:14 AM  
Assad's commanders believe it was their own attack, but people here know better.
 
2013-08-28 09:27:24 AM  

This About That: log_jammin: This About That: pending invasion

never happen.

Let's hope not. The stock market thinks otherwise.


they're just pulling their money out of other things, they'll re-invest it in military contractors today. look for Raytheon and McDonnell-Douglas to get a bump
 
2013-08-28 09:27:50 AM  

DubtodaIll: PunGent: DubtodaIll: liam76: DubtodaIll: liam76: DubtodaIll: but this situation is another example of how he makes a great speech and then does something else

What speech are you talking about and what do you want hiom to do?

I think the "redline" was stupid, but he hasn't "done something else".  You can't make that claim unless you are certain assad launched the chemical weapons.

I'd take the time to find a quote about him having the most transparent administration ever from his inauguration or something but it's too early in the morning.  Also drones, also NSA, also raising my taxes even though I'm lower middle class, also etc. etc. etc.

The drones and NSA I agree are wrong, however he didn't really have all the info when he was giving his innaguration speech.

You can't complain about the taxes with a straight face, or if you can you may want to take a look at how tax codes are created in the US.

I heard him say over and over again "if you're lower or middle classes, your taxes will not go up" and bam, 2012 comes around and my taxes go up.

The President sets the tax rates?  And, did your TAX go up, or did your RATE go up?  Because...two different things.
Making more money than you did last year, and therefore paying more taxes?  Oh, the humanity...

No I'm hardly making any more money than I have been.  I haven't changed tax brackets, but the taxes coming out of my paycheck went up about 180 bucks on the same pay rate.


State...or federal?
 
2013-08-28 09:28:15 AM  

PunGent: DubtodaIll: PunGent: DubtodaIll: liam76: DubtodaIll: liam76: DubtodaIll: but this situation is another example of how he makes a great speech and then does something else

What speech are you talking about and what do you want hiom to do?

I think the "redline" was stupid, but he hasn't "done something else".  You can't make that claim unless you are certain assad launched the chemical weapons.

I'd take the time to find a quote about him having the most transparent administration ever from his inauguration or something but it's too early in the morning.  Also drones, also NSA, also raising my taxes even though I'm lower middle class, also etc. etc. etc.

The drones and NSA I agree are wrong, however he didn't really have all the info when he was giving his innaguration speech.

You can't complain about the taxes with a straight face, or if you can you may want to take a look at how tax codes are created in the US.

I heard him say over and over again "if you're lower or middle classes, your taxes will not go up" and bam, 2012 comes around and my taxes go up.

The President sets the tax rates?  And, did your TAX go up, or did your RATE go up?  Because...two different things.
Making more money than you did last year, and therefore paying more taxes?  Oh, the humanity...

No I'm hardly making any more money than I have been.  I haven't changed tax brackets, but the taxes coming out of my paycheck went up about 180 bucks on the same pay rate.

State...or federal?


federal
 
2013-08-28 09:28:17 AM  

Target Builder: So this morning on NPR they were talking about why the US needs to do something, the summary seemed to be "We need to do something because we said we'd do something and if we don't we'll lose credibility in the Middle East".

Think about that for a minute.

We might end up invading another country which presents no direct threat to the US, at the cost the lives of US servicemen, long term disability of US servicemen, billions/trillions of dollars and who knows how many civilian casualties, just so people know to take our threats seriously.


Invasion isn't the only "something" on the list, and the last time we did this it ended up with NATO airstrikes and nothing else.
 
2013-08-28 09:28:31 AM  
DubtodaIll:

No I'm hardly making any more money than I have been.  I haven't changed tax brackets, but the taxes coming out of my paycheck went up about 180 bucks on the same pay rate.

Unless you're talking about the expiration of the very temporary Payroll Tax cut you should probably speak to your accountant about that.
 
2013-08-28 09:29:30 AM  

DubtodaIll: liam76: DubtodaIll: I heard him say over and over again "if you're lower or middle classes, your taxes will not go up" and bam, 2012 comes around and my taxes go up

How much do youthink they would have gone up if he allowed the Bush tax cuts to expire completely (his only ohter option)?

Much more.


If you think leading is just choosing too bad options well then they've got you in their pocket.  A good leader is able to come up with his own ideas and gets them done.  Clinton, for example, was a great leader.  He was able to execute his policies, was able to reach beneficial compromises for both sides of the aisle and the nation thrived because of his ability to lead.  Anyway, I don't think either of us is going to change either's mind about whether or not Obama has been a good POTUS or not.


Well, to be honest, if Obama came out in favor of breathing, some people would suffocate themselves as a result.

Compromise requires both sides to be willing to work together and you can't honestly say that the GOP is willing to compromise with the WH on anything.  They change their stances depending on what the President says or does.  There's an amusing youtube video out there that has Newt Gingrich demanding that the President do something to support those Freedom-loving Libyan rebels...and then, less than a day later, Gingrich is lambasting the President for supporting those AQ-linked Libyan rebels.

The President 'tried' to compromise for nearly the entirety of his first term and it got him nothing.  Now, he's working around the GOP and good on him for it.  They've done nothing with their time in office, other than make stupid symbolic gestures and basically shiat the bed.
 
2013-08-28 09:29:56 AM  

Target Builder: DubtodaIll:

No I'm hardly making any more money than I have been.  I haven't changed tax brackets, but the taxes coming out of my paycheck went up about 180 bucks on the same pay rate.

Unless you're talking about the expiration of the very temporary Payroll Tax cut you should probably speak to your accountant about that.


I can't afford an accountant.  And it was the Medicare/Medicade mostly and some from the payroll.
 
2013-08-28 09:30:08 AM  

Target Builder: So this morning on NPR they were talking about why the US needs to do something, the summary seemed to be "We need to do something because we said we'd do something and if we don't we'll lose credibility in the Middle East".

Think about that for a minute.

We might end up invading another country which presents no direct threat to the US, at the cost the lives of US servicemen, long term disability of US servicemen, billions/trillions of dollars and who knows how many civilian casualties, just so people know to take our threats seriously.


this

well... hopefully not. but yeah, it does sound like there are some people who would rather action was taken against syria even if it's the wrong thing to do, because that's better than admitting, 'my bad, shouldn't have said the red line thing'.

is saving face more important than doing the right thing?
 
2013-08-28 09:30:10 AM  

DubtodaIll: I heard him say over and over again "if you're lower or middle classes, your taxes will not go up" and bam, 2012 comes around and my taxes go up.


what? there was no income tax hike in 2012.  that's a lie.
 
2013-08-28 09:30:10 AM  
I am not claiming "false flag" and I am about as libby libtard Obama voter as you can find, but I am supporting military intervention in Syria. What has made me extra wary is the stuff I hear comming from the administration about justifying an attack. It sounds way too familiar. Even though I trust the Obama Administration way more than I trusted the GW Bush administration, I do not trust the Obama administration enough to give them a pass to attack on the reasoning they have produced thus far.

If Assad gassed his own people and you have the evidence, then bring up charges and try him at the ICC. Then you would have leverage on Russia and China as far as their security council veto power because then they would be protecting a convicted war criminal rather than a legitimate world leader.
 
2013-08-28 09:30:48 AM  

Infernalist: tirob: All right, *now* I'm confused.

Is this a case of:

a)  A Syrian army officer, outwardly an Assad loyalist but secretly sympathetic to the rebels, who ordered his troops to use chemical weapons in an attempt to discredit the government and possibly provoke a US intervention?

or

b) The Syrian Ministry of defense, surmising that the CIA/NSA was listening in on the line, trying to present this whole episode as a command screwup, rather than as an act ordered from the top, in an attempt to evade responsibility for the chemical attack and possibly prevent a US intervention?

or

c) Something else?

If I had to guess, I'd say:

c) Some lower ranking field officer made the horrible mistake of using CWs on his own volition.


That's highly unlikely. Or the Assad regime is packed full of morons.
 
2013-08-28 09:31:25 AM  

DubtodaIll: Target Builder: DubtodaIll:

No I'm hardly making any more money than I have been.  I haven't changed tax brackets, but the taxes coming out of my paycheck went up about 180 bucks on the same pay rate.

Unless you're talking about the expiration of the very temporary Payroll Tax cut you should probably speak to your accountant about that.

I can't afford an accountant.  And it was the Medicare/Medicade mostly and some from the payroll.


You might want to check with your payroll people then. Unless $180 equals about 2.5% of your income.
 
2013-08-28 09:32:24 AM  

Infernalist: DubtodaIll: liam76: DubtodaIll: I heard him say over and over again "if you're lower or middle classes, your taxes will not go up" and bam, 2012 comes around and my taxes go up

How much do youthink they would have gone up if he allowed the Bush tax cuts to expire completely (his only ohter option)?

Much more.


If you think leading is just choosing too bad options well then they've got you in their pocket.  A good leader is able to come up with his own ideas and gets them done.  Clinton, for example, was a great leader.  He was able to execute his policies, was able to reach beneficial compromises for both sides of the aisle and the nation thrived because of his ability to lead.  Anyway, I don't think either of us is going to change either's mind about whether or not Obama has been a good POTUS or not.

Well, to be honest, if Obama came out in favor of breathing, some people would suffocate themselves as a result.

Compromise requires both sides to be willing to work together and you can't honestly say that the GOP is willing to compromise with the WH on anything.  They change their stances depending on what the President says or does.  There's an amusing youtube video out there that has Newt Gingrich demanding that the President do something to support those Freedom-loving Libyan rebels...and then, less than a day later, Gingrich is lambasting the President for supporting those AQ-linked Libyan rebels.

The President 'tried' to compromise for nearly the entirety of his first term and it got him nothing.  Now, he's working around the GOP and good on him for it.  They've done nothing with their time in office, other than make stupid symbolic gestures and basically shiat the bed.


Right, Newt Gingrinch was a super easy guy to get along with but somehow Slick Willy was able to get things done.
 
2013-08-28 09:32:54 AM  

vygramul: Assad's commanders believe it was their own attack, but people here know better.


Caveat emptor
 
2013-08-28 09:32:55 AM  

heavymetal: If Assad gassed his own people and you have the evidence, then bring up charges and try him at the ICC.


the US isn't even a state member of the ICC.
 
2013-08-28 09:34:29 AM  

DubtodaIll: Target Builder: DubtodaIll:

No I'm hardly making any more money than I have been.  I haven't changed tax brackets, but the taxes coming out of my paycheck went up about 180 bucks on the same pay rate.

Unless you're talking about the expiration of the very temporary Payroll Tax cut you should probably speak to your accountant about that.

I can't afford an accountant.  And it was the Medicare/Medicade mostly and some from the payroll.


The extra income tax could only have been due to the additional tax on the small pay rise you mention. The medicare/medicaid is due to the expiration of the temporary payroll tax break that started in 2011 and ended in 2012 and the small amount of extra income you mention.

No other federal income taxes have changed for you.
 
2013-08-28 09:35:03 AM  

vygramul: Infernalist: tirob: All right, *now* I'm confused.

Is this a case of:

a)  A Syrian army officer, outwardly an Assad loyalist but secretly sympathetic to the rebels, who ordered his troops to use chemical weapons in an attempt to discredit the government and possibly provoke a US intervention?

or

b) The Syrian Ministry of defense, surmising that the CIA/NSA was listening in on the line, trying to present this whole episode as a command screwup, rather than as an act ordered from the top, in an attempt to evade responsibility for the chemical attack and possibly prevent a US intervention?

or

c) Something else?

If I had to guess, I'd say:

c) Some lower ranking field officer made the horrible mistake of using CWs on his own volition.

That's highly unlikely. Or the Assad regime is packed full of morons.


You say that as if that's an unlikely prospect.
 
2013-08-28 09:35:23 AM  

cameroncrazy1984: Invasion isn't the only "something" on the list, and the last time we did this it ended up with NATO airstrikes and nothing else.


The way it sounded they were not even talking about a sustained thing like serbia it's going to be a limited strike with cruise missiles and they have been talking about it for days now so everyone knows it is coming. It's like military theater a meaningless show because they know they have to "do something", there's something morally reprehensible about it and it will kill people for no reason but not Americans.
 
2013-08-28 09:35:37 AM  

neversubmit: vygramul: Assad's commanders believe it was their own attack, but people here know better.

Caveat emptor


That applies even more to people who buy the false-flag narrative pushed by people with a financial interest in getting page clicks from those who find conspiracies entertaining.
 
2013-08-28 09:35:53 AM  

Hobodeluxe: DubtodaIll: I heard him say over and over again "if you're lower or middle classes, your taxes will not go up" and bam, 2012 comes around and my taxes go up.

what? there was no income tax hike in 2012.  that's a lie.


Maybe his income was increased due to his record level of bootstrap sales and he owed more taxes.
 
2013-08-28 09:36:00 AM  

DubtodaIll: Infernalist: DubtodaIll: liam76: DubtodaIll: I heard him say over and over again "if you're lower or middle classes, your taxes will not go up" and bam, 2012 comes around and my taxes go up

How much do youthink they would have gone up if he allowed the Bush tax cuts to expire completely (his only ohter option)?

Much more.


If you think leading is just choosing too bad options well then they've got you in their pocket.  A good leader is able to come up with his own ideas and gets them done.  Clinton, for example, was a great leader.  He was able to execute his policies, was able to reach beneficial compromises for both sides of the aisle and the nation thrived because of his ability to lead.  Anyway, I don't think either of us is going to change either's mind about whether or not Obama has been a good POTUS or not.

Well, to be honest, if Obama came out in favor of breathing, some people would suffocate themselves as a result.

Compromise requires both sides to be willing to work together and you can't honestly say that the GOP is willing to compromise with the WH on anything.  They change their stances depending on what the President says or does.  There's an amusing youtube video out there that has Newt Gingrich demanding that the President do something to support those Freedom-loving Libyan rebels...and then, less than a day later, Gingrich is lambasting the President for supporting those AQ-linked Libyan rebels.

The President 'tried' to compromise for nearly the entirety of his first term and it got him nothing.  Now, he's working around the GOP and good on him for it.  They've done nothing with their time in office, other than make stupid symbolic gestures and basically shiat the bed.

Right, Newt Gingrinch was a super easy guy to get along with but somehow Slick Willy was able to get things done.


I can't even decipher what you said there.  Try again.
 
2013-08-28 09:36:29 AM  

Tat'dGreaser: What do bombs cost these days? Like five bucks a pop?


I'd even be willing to pay an extra 5 cents on my paycheck to replace the couple hundred or so cruise missiles it might take to turn any of these sites into something that resembles a Martian landscape.

Infernalist: Bombing those weapons would just create toxic clouds that would kill indiscriminately depends on how the wind is blowing.

Destroying CWs safely requires a specific procedure with specific equipment that basically revolves around incinerating them in a factory where they have no chance of releasing their toxins into the environment.


I'm pretty sure a cruise missile with the correct warhead could do it just fine. It does require specialized equipment to disperse the stuff anyway. Remember that sarin attack in Japan, it ended up basically pooling and was easily cleaned up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJi2K8mKTRM

Yeah, pretty sure that would do it
 
2013-08-28 09:37:13 AM  

Target Builder: DubtodaIll: Target Builder: DubtodaIll:

No I'm hardly making any more money than I have been.  I haven't changed tax brackets, but the taxes coming out of my paycheck went up about 180 bucks on the same pay rate.

Unless you're talking about the expiration of the very temporary Payroll Tax cut you should probably speak to your accountant about that.

I can't afford an accountant.  And it was the Medicare/Medicade mostly and some from the payroll.

The extra income tax could only have been due to the additional tax on the small pay rise you mention. The medicare/medicaid is due to the expiration of the temporary payroll tax break that started in 2011 and ended in 2012 and the small amount of extra income you mention.

No other federal income taxes have changed for you.


Right, and I was told by my President that none of them would go up.  It's not like I'm surprised, but I don't see why you're trying to convince me the President is a man of his word when even his rhetoric turns out to be bull.
 
2013-08-28 09:37:17 AM  

Infernalist: vygramul: Infernalist: tirob: All right, *now* I'm confused.

Is this a case of:

a)  A Syrian army officer, outwardly an Assad loyalist but secretly sympathetic to the rebels, who ordered his troops to use chemical weapons in an attempt to discredit the government and possibly provoke a US intervention?

or

b) The Syrian Ministry of defense, surmising that the CIA/NSA was listening in on the line, trying to present this whole episode as a command screwup, rather than as an act ordered from the top, in an attempt to evade responsibility for the chemical attack and possibly prevent a US intervention?

or

c) Something else?

If I had to guess, I'd say:

c) Some lower ranking field officer made the horrible mistake of using CWs on his own volition.

That's highly unlikely. Or the Assad regime is packed full of morons.

You say that as if that's an unlikely prospect.


Long-term dictators don't tend to make the fundamental mistake of putting the authority of using regime-changing WMDs in the hands of lower-level field officers.
 
2013-08-28 09:37:41 AM  

Tatterdemalian: So in these phone calls, where the Syrian army isn't expecting anyone to listen to and presumably speaking candidly, show that they never authorized any chemical attacks, didn't expect their chemical weapons division to carry any out without said authorization, and were told by the chem division that they actually didn't carry out any such attacks.

This sort of thing makes it seem more like the rebels are carrying out chem attacks on themselves to manipulate the world into defending them, not less. Unless it's some sort of double bluff carried out in anticipation that US intel would tap that phone call, which, even after the whole NSA scandal, really isn't that likely when people are fighting for their lives.


This.

When the leadership's reaction is "wtf is going on" I don't call that "proof" that they were behind it.
 
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