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(Gawker)   US intel agents intercepted phone calls FALSE FLAG from the Syrian Ministry of Defense FALSE FLAG asking their chemical weapons unit who in the fark told them FALSE FLAG to launch a chemical attack on a suburb full of civilians   (gawker.com) divider line 549
    More: Obvious, chemical warfares, Syrians, Syrian Ministry, syrian ministry of defense, special agents, chemical weapons unit, Secretary of State John Kerry, phone calls  
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10869 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Aug 2013 at 8:03 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-08-28 08:53:32 AM

DubtodaIll: LasersHurt: I love how people are pre-emptively so pissed at the war Obama's gotten us into. Soon. Will have gotten us into. Definitely. This is the same as Iraq. Or will have been.

It's not that they're pissed about the potential for war, it's that he's not a man of his word.


You mean he willn't have been a man of his word? Theoretically? Which word is that?
 
2013-08-28 08:54:24 AM

Launch Code: So we're going to war AGAIN! Where are the anti war protestors? Where's the code pink nuts? I guess biden and almost all the other demahippocrates are ok with this fight. Most democrats won't speak out against barry or his policies because they fear the almighty jackboot of liberal scorn, political suicide, death threats cold shoulders at dem gatherings etc. Does anyone on the left have the intestinal fortitude to question anything at all that this guy does?

barry is a known narcissist. Are you sure he's not doing this because he's tired of being laughed at by the other world leaders for being soft, wishy washy and not understanding how the rest of the world works? Is it possible that in his circle of advisors, hollywood friends, news outlets, can't do so I teach educators and other obamorons, that he believes he solved the worlds hatred of America with some really hip speeches? He's about to provide some very heavy ordnance to rebel fighters. Some of these same rebels are terrorists. Has he forgotten what happened a little over a decade ago to America? barry doesn't fit the Bush cowboy mo. He's more of the guy in charge of the Apple Dumpling gang, but do you really want him invading another country just because his feelings are constantly hurt at world leader meetings or so he can support his rebel (hint, they really hate Americans) friends? It wouldn't surprise me if the whole reason for this invasion is because Syria had lots of sunlight and its windy. No Blood For Green Energy!


I enjoyed this immensely. 6/10
 
2013-08-28 08:54:49 AM
Yeah, let's just stand back and let all the evil shiatheads of the world gas people.  We have public school teachers who need raises.
 
2013-08-28 08:55:03 AM

FullMetalPanda: So did Assad kill Obama's grandma or something because he seems to be the reincarnate of Bush on the lead up to the invasion of Iraq.


This.
 
2013-08-28 08:55:31 AM

LasersHurt: DubtodaIll: LasersHurt: I love how people are pre-emptively so pissed at the war Obama's gotten us into. Soon. Will have gotten us into. Definitely. This is the same as Iraq. Or will have been.

It's not that they're pissed about the potential for war, it's that he's not a man of his word.

You mean he willn't have been a man of his word? Theoretically? Which word is that?


Most of them, it's not just this situation, but this situation is another example of how he makes a great speech and then does something else entirely.
 
2013-08-28 08:55:55 AM

dittybopper: CheatCommando: Tyrone Slothrop: Heinlein never considered a society where people are willing to die for what they believe in.

Of course he didn't, even though he had plenty of examples. That would have forced him to reflect on his rugged individualism philosophy, and it is quite evident from his latter works and letters that the man was simply unwilling to do that. I enjoy the books without celebrating the man as some sort of messiah.

Yes, he did, but in the context of alien opponents, like the bugs of Klendathu.


That's still his early period - most of Heinlein's unreflected individualism comes out much later in his career. Particularly after Friday and The Cat Who Walks Through Walls. I think his brief foray into politics over the Test Ban Treaty, which Starship Troopers was a part of, seemed to harden his views and make him far more intolerant of alternatives.
 
2013-08-28 08:56:30 AM

socoloco: What I find amazing is our "outrage" of the use of chemical weapons (which are generally produced by the U.S. and are basically ineffective at scale). So we'll use cruise missiles, drones and cluster bombs which are far more "humane" to intervene in a civil war at the behest of Israel that will effective further inflame the region.

\fark that


Let's not forget napalm, Agent Orange, depleted uranium, anthrax, and whatever stuff we've been testing out over there for the last ten years that we don't even know about yet.
 
2013-08-28 08:56:35 AM

DubtodaIll: LasersHurt: DubtodaIll: LasersHurt: I love how people are pre-emptively so pissed at the war Obama's gotten us into. Soon. Will have gotten us into. Definitely. This is the same as Iraq. Or will have been.

It's not that they're pissed about the potential for war, it's that he's not a man of his word.

You mean he willn't have been a man of his word? Theoretically? Which word is that?

Most of them, it's not just this situation, but this situation is another example of how he makes a great speech and then does something else entirely.


So, what would you do in his place?  And be specific.
 
2013-08-28 08:58:44 AM

pnome: Yeah, let's just stand back and let all the evil shiatheads of the world gas people.  We have public school teachers who need raises.


Pretty much. The world is a pretty big place, and I fail to see why we have a vested interest in stopping the two sides of this conflict - both of which are filled with evil shiatheads - from offing each other.

Stand down the military, give the teachers a raise. Sounds like a plan to me.
 
2013-08-28 08:58:55 AM

You'd turn it off when I was halfway across: give me doughnuts: SockMonkeyHolocaust: Just for old times sake, let's get Colin Powell up in front of the UN to make the case that Syria can deploy those weapons in 45... no 25 minutes and they have mobile labs and that's why we don't know where they are but remember Knight Rider? He had that garage in the back of a trailer truck.

Perhaps you'd care to ask him what he thinks about Syria?

Remind me, why should anyone care what that lying shiat-heel's says ever again?

"I have no affection for Mr. Assad. I've dealt with him. I know him. And he is a pathological liar, with respect to my interaction with him," Powell said.

Oh right, comedy.


I'm actually willing to cut Powell a bit of slack on that whole fiasco...I think he was criminally mis-led, rather than deliberately, personally mendacious.  You're right, though, he still has a HUGE credibility gap...someone operating at that level shouldn't be hoodwinked by two-biatchickenhawks.
 
2013-08-28 08:59:23 AM

Infernalist: DubtodaIll: LasersHurt: DubtodaIll: LasersHurt: I love how people are pre-emptively so pissed at the war Obama's gotten us into. Soon. Will have gotten us into. Definitely. This is the same as Iraq. Or will have been.

It's not that they're pissed about the potential for war, it's that he's not a man of his word.

You mean he willn't have been a man of his word? Theoretically? Which word is that?

Most of them, it's not just this situation, but this situation is another example of how he makes a great speech and then does something else entirely.

So, what would you do in his place?  And be specific.


I'd make an effort to lead.  I wouldn't make statements about 2nd tier states over whether or not we're going to use our military if they do something we don't agree with.  If they do something that warrants our involvement, then we get involved. I wouldn't need to make threats or ultimatums as the President of the United States of America.   Why do you think he IS a man of his word? And be specific.
 
2013-08-28 08:59:52 AM

DubtodaIll: but this situation is another example of how he makes a great speech and then does something else


What speech are you talking about and what do you want hiom to do?

I think the "redline" was stupid, but he hasn't "done something else".  You can't make that claim unless you are certain assad launched the chemical weapons.
 
2013-08-28 09:00:07 AM

CheatCommando: Tyrone Slothrop: Heinlein never considered a society where people are willing to die for what they believe in.

Of course he didn't, even though he had plenty of examples. That would have forced him to reflect on his rugged individualism philosophy, and it is quite evident from his latter works and letters that the man was simply unwilling to do that. I enjoy the books without celebrating the man as some sort of messiah.


This.  He's a bit like Ayn Rand...raises some good points, but don't base your whole life on the philosophy...
 
2013-08-28 09:00:11 AM

PunGent: You'd turn it off when I was halfway across: give me doughnuts: SockMonkeyHolocaust: Just for old times sake, let's get Colin Powell up in front of the UN to make the case that Syria can deploy those weapons in 45... no 25 minutes and they have mobile labs and that's why we don't know where they are but remember Knight Rider? He had that garage in the back of a trailer truck.

Perhaps you'd care to ask him what he thinks about Syria?

Remind me, why should anyone care what that lying shiat-heel's says ever again?

"I have no affection for Mr. Assad. I've dealt with him. I know him. And he is a pathological liar, with respect to my interaction with him," Powell said.

Oh right, comedy.

I'm actually willing to cut Powell a bit of slack on that whole fiasco...I think he was criminally mis-led, rather than deliberately, personally mendacious.  You're right, though, he still has a HUGE credibility gap...someone operating at that level shouldn't be hoodwinked by two-biatchickenhawks.


Amusing filterpwn
 
2013-08-28 09:01:02 AM
May we wipe ourselves off this planet, but leave nature intact.
 
2013-08-28 09:02:03 AM

BostonEMT: xanadian: foo monkey: TenJed_77: Not our problem! We should mot be the police of the world. As it really only causes regional instability, regional countries should intervene if need be. Besides it is another damned if you do, damned if you don't situations.

I'd like to try a damned if we don't.

Seems to me that lately, every time we intervene in the Middle East, we fark it up*.  So, despite the fact that I really REALLY REALLY feel that Assad needs to pay for his crimes, we should just stay out of it.

*one exception would be Libya.  I don't count Benghazi as part of that exception, as it is its own intelligence and logistical farkup.

What "crimes"? Granted, I'm still trying to wrap my head around the fact that Obama (and our Money) is supporting frickin Al'KayDuh - but what 'crimes' did Assad commit, that the Russians are now complicit in as they are 'protecting' him?


Heh...remember the "American Taliban" case?  looks like HIS crime was...bad timing :)
 
2013-08-28 09:02:40 AM

lordjupiter: Launch Code: So we're going to war AGAIN! Where are the anti war protestors? Where's the code pink nuts? I guess biden and almost all the other demahippocrates are ok with this fight. Most democrats won't speak out against barry or his policies because they fear the almighty jackboot of liberal scorn, political suicide, death threats cold shoulders at dem gatherings etc. Does anyone on the left have the intestinal fortitude to question anything at all that this guy does?

barry is a known narcissist. Are you sure he's not doing this because he's tired of being laughed at by the other world leaders for being soft, wishy washy and not understanding how the rest of the world works? Is it possible that in his circle of advisors, hollywood friends, news outlets, can't do so I teach educators and other obamorons, that he believes he solved the worlds hatred of America with some really hip speeches? He's about to provide some very heavy ordnance to rebel fighters. Some of these same rebels are terrorists. Has he forgotten what happened a little over a decade ago to America? barry doesn't fit the Bush cowboy mo. He's more of the guy in charge of the Apple Dumpling gang, but do you really want him invading another country just because his feelings are constantly hurt at world leader meetings or so he can support his rebel (hint, they really hate Americans) friends? It wouldn't surprise me if the whole reason for this invasion is because Syria had lots of sunlight and its windy. No Blood For Green Energy!

3/10


I thought that was a pretty good piece of satire. You weren't quite sure where Mr. Code was going with the rant until the last line.
 
2013-08-28 09:02:42 AM

macadamnut: xanadian: Seems to me that lately, every time we intervene in the Middle East, we fark it up.

And for geographically challenged farkers, here's a helpful map of the Middle East:

[562x432 from http://www.nationsonline.org/maps/central_america_map_855.jpg image 562x432]

No, wait, here it is:

[562x357 from http://www.nationsonline.org/maps/south_east_asia_map.jpg image 562x357]

No, damn it. Middle East, Middle East...

[562x360 from http://cg043.k12.sd.us/regions%20of%20the%20US%20webquest/southe1.gif image 562x360]

There we go.


imgs.xkcd.com
 
2013-08-28 09:03:18 AM

ltdanman44: Hundreds of thousands have already died in this conflict and the world does nothing.   Gas a few hundred and now these deaths have more importance and outrage.  Death by bullets, bombs, starvation, and torture still ok though.

/Stuff your sorries in a sack.   Humans beings don't deserve this planet.


Be ironic if we get out into the universe, and discover it's even MORE poorly-run by other species...
 
2013-08-28 09:03:25 AM

liam76: DubtodaIll: but this situation is another example of how he makes a great speech and then does something else

What speech are you talking about and what do you want hiom to do?

I think the "redline" was stupid, but he hasn't "done something else".  You can't make that claim unless you are certain assad launched the chemical weapons.


I'd take the time to find a quote about him having the most transparent administration ever from his inauguration or something but it's too early in the morning.  Also drones, also NSA, also raising my taxes even though I'm lower middle class, also etc. etc. etc.
 
2013-08-28 09:04:16 AM
FullMetalPanda
2013-08-28 08:17:52 AM


So did Assad kill Obama's grandma or something because he seems to be the reincarnate of Bush on the lead up to the invasion of Iraq.

Moving TSA from denying water bottles to all out groping of innocents

Expansion of Patriot act.

Expansion of Homeland defense.

Support of gitmo.

Troops still in Afg. and Iraq

Increasing the Bush policy of spying on americans

Drone strikes on civilians

Drones over US airspace

Other than 50% of his race, how exactly is he different than bush?
 
2013-08-28 09:04:26 AM

socoloco: What I find amazing is our "outrage" of the use of chemical weapons (which are generally produced by the U.S. and are basically ineffective at scale). So we'll use cruise missiles, drones and cluster bombs which are far more "humane" to intervene in a civil war at the behest of Israel that will effective further inflame the region.

\fark that


Gas is an evil way to fight. It kills lots of innocent people. Carpet bombing cities has been against the rules for awhile too. This ain't 'Nam, there are rules!
 
2013-08-28 09:05:14 AM

DubtodaIll: Infernalist: DubtodaIll: LasersHurt: DubtodaIll: LasersHurt: I love how people are pre-emptively so pissed at the war Obama's gotten us into. Soon. Will have gotten us into. Definitely. This is the same as Iraq. Or will have been.

It's not that they're pissed about the potential for war, it's that he's not a man of his word.

You mean he willn't have been a man of his word? Theoretically? Which word is that?

Most of them, it's not just this situation, but this situation is another example of how he makes a great speech and then does something else entirely.

So, what would you do in his place?  And be specific.

I'd make an effort to lead.  I wouldn't make statements about 2nd tier states over whether or not we're going to use our military if they do something we don't agree with.  If they do something that warrants our involvement, then we get involved. I wouldn't need to make threats or ultimatums as the President of the United States of America.   Why do you think he IS a man of his word? And be specific.


Actually, I have a different expectation of whomever ends up as President, but let's deal with your complete nonanswer first.  You would 'lead', which means nothing, especially nothing 'specific' to the situation at hand.  You would 'not' do what he did, but you haven't said what you 'would' do, other than set yourself up to be a goober.

Secondly, I never said he was a man of his word.

Lastly, I want a President that's smart enough to not get us into a mess in the ME and if that means going back on his word, then hoo-farking-rah.

Personally, and this is just my own personal opinion here, you're just biatching to have something to biatch about.  I mean, we're looking at a situation where people have been gassed, no one's yet sure who did it, we're getting close to laying the smack down on 'someone', and your big concern is that the President isn't 'a man of his word.'

So, if you're serious, all I can suggest is turn off Fark and GBTW.
 
2013-08-28 09:05:25 AM
This isn't conspiracy, it's just incompetence.

A single Syrian unit farked up, farked up pretty badly, but that's human nature.

The conspiracy theorists will tell us that logically, there was no reason for Assad to use NBC's. In that, they're right. There was no logical upside for Assad to use NBC's in the way he did, but logic often isn't the driving force during wartime. In this case, logic probably never entered the equation. It looks like a fark up, an awful fark up, but a fark up.

Really, this has none of the hallmarks of a false flag. Purposefully designed false flags attempt to demonize the opposition. This evidence just makes Assad look like he's losing control of his most important assets. Here's another reason it's not a false flag. This very evidence would probably exonerate Assad if he were ever to face a war crimes tribunal.
/A lot of bad shiat happens during a war, it doesn't always make sense.
 
2013-08-28 09:06:05 AM

Slaxl: It's amazing how we all still, collectively, have not forgotten the lies that led to and the damage caused by the previous wars. People say the public are fickle and forget everything when X-Factor comes on but I'm seeing very little support for the war, and lots of questioning official versions.

For the record I believe chemical weapons have been used against rebels, and we should still stay out, because whichever side we help will be brutal towards their own people. Also politicians are useless and will botch the whole thing because of election cycles.

I was very much for intervention at the beginning, before I knew anything about the rebels, but I always was impulsive, I'm glad the governments are not, even if at the end of this 2 year period they're still making the wrong decision, you can hardly accuse them of rushing into it.


Had we jumped in with both feet and helped the FSA things mght have been different. However, the second Al Queda came streaming in from Iraq things took a turn for the worse in the make up of the rebel forces and muddied the waters when it comes to who is worse in this fight.
 
2013-08-28 09:06:22 AM

NutWrench: While the phone calls, if true, would prove that the Syrian government was responsible for the attacks,

No, it would NOT. The Russian ambassador submitted an 80-page report to the U.N. back in July, stating that the sarin used in the recent attacks had not been chemically stabilized. That means that the sarin was recently manufactured and unsuitable for long-term storage. Also, the weapons used to deliver the sarin were primitive compared to the weapons the Syrian government is known to have.

He said the analysis showed that the unguided Basha'ir-3 rocket that hit Khan al-Assal was not a military-standard chemical weapon. Churkin said the results indicate it "was not industrially manufactured and was filled with sarin." He said the samples indicated the sarin and the projectile were produced in makeshift "cottage industry" conditions, and the projectile "is not a standard one for chemical use."

Sarin production does not require sophisticated equipment. Figuring out whether or not the sarin is chemically stabilized is an easily-verifiable fact. There are samples of it all over the goddamn place, so I'd like that see our government answer that one simple question before we belly-flop into another quagmire with our tails ablazin'.


Wasn't that the stuff that cult used in the Tokyo subway attack?
 
2013-08-28 09:06:24 AM

DubtodaIll: liam76: DubtodaIll: but this situation is another example of how he makes a great speech and then does something else

What speech are you talking about and what do you want hiom to do?

I think the "redline" was stupid, but he hasn't "done something else".  You can't make that claim unless you are certain assad launched the chemical weapons.

I'd take the time to find a quote about him having the most transparent administration ever from his inauguration or something but it's too early in the morning.  Also drones, also NSA, also raising my taxes even though I'm lower middle class, also etc. etc. etc.


The drones and NSA I agree are wrong, however he didn't really have all the info when he was giving his innaguration speech.

You can't complain about the taxes with a straight face, or if you can you may want to take a look at how tax codes are created in the US.
 
2013-08-28 09:06:27 AM

Infernalist: DubtodaIll: Infernalist: DubtodaIll: LasersHurt: DubtodaIll: LasersHurt: I love how people are pre-emptively so pissed at the war Obama's gotten us into. Soon. Will have gotten us into. Definitely. This is the same as Iraq. Or will have been.

It's not that they're pissed about the potential for war, it's that he's not a man of his word.

You mean he willn't have been a man of his word? Theoretically? Which word is that?

Most of them, it's not just this situation, but this situation is another example of how he makes a great speech and then does something else entirely.

So, what would you do in his place?  And be specific.

I'd make an effort to lead.  I wouldn't make statements about 2nd tier states over whether or not we're going to use our military if they do something we don't agree with.  If they do something that warrants our involvement, then we get involved. I wouldn't need to make threats or ultimatums as the President of the United States of America.   Why do you think he IS a man of his word? And be specific.

Actually, I have a different expectation of whomever ends up as President, but let's deal with your complete nonanswer first.  You would 'lead', which means nothing, especially nothing 'specific' to the situation at hand.  You would 'not' do what he did, but you haven't said what you 'would' do, other than set yourself up to be a goober.

Secondly, I never said he was a man of his word.

Lastly, I want a President that's smart enough to not get us into a mess in the ME and if that means going back on his word, then hoo-farking-rah.

Personally, and this is just my own personal opinion here, you're just biatching to have something to biatch about.  I mean, we're looking at a situation where people have been gassed, no one's yet sure who did it, we're getting close to laying the smack down on 'someone', and your big concern is that the President isn't 'a man of his word.'

So, if you're serious, all I can suggest is turn off Fark and GBTW.


All you ever do is argue.  You never say anything of value.
 
2013-08-28 09:06:29 AM

violentsalvation: Right... Are we blaming Israel yet or are we blaming this "false flag" operation on ourselves?

If you don't want us to take part in their conflict then you can say it. I'll respect your opinion, I'm luke warm on the idea myself. But this headline is silly.


I'd have thought the Rebels would be the most likely folks to do a false flag attack - nobody outside of Syria really wants to get involved or has anything to gain from a false flag operation.
 
2013-08-28 09:07:28 AM

pnome: Yeah, let's just stand back and let all the evil shiatheads of the world gas people.  We have public school teachers who need raises.


Or we could cut out the middleman and gas the public schools. It'll be worth it just to see the NRA's reaction.
 
2013-08-28 09:07:42 AM

Esroc: May we wipe ourselves off this planet, but leave nature intact.


You first.

PunGent: Be ironic if we get out into the universe, and discover it's even MORE poorly-run by other species...


Just as long as they don't write poetry...
 
2013-08-28 09:08:08 AM

liam76: DubtodaIll: liam76: DubtodaIll: but this situation is another example of how he makes a great speech and then does something else

What speech are you talking about and what do you want hiom to do?

I think the "redline" was stupid, but he hasn't "done something else".  You can't make that claim unless you are certain assad launched the chemical weapons.

I'd take the time to find a quote about him having the most transparent administration ever from his inauguration or something but it's too early in the morning.  Also drones, also NSA, also raising my taxes even though I'm lower middle class, also etc. etc. etc.

The drones and NSA I agree are wrong, however he didn't really have all the info when he was giving his innaguration speech.

You can't complain about the taxes with a straight face, or if you can you may want to take a look at how tax codes are created in the US.


I heard him say over and over again "if you're lower or middle classes, your taxes will not go up" and bam, 2012 comes around and my taxes go up.
 
2013-08-28 09:09:39 AM
just curious - if this is a "false flag" operation, what does obama have to gain by it? military intervention in syria is less popular than congress right now. plus it will be expensive. plus it will divert attention from the implementation of obamacare, which really needs to go as smoothly as possible for obama to secure his legacy.

i just don't see any up side. if there were, obama would have engaged in syria long ago.
 
2013-08-28 09:09:42 AM

RandomRandom: This isn't conspiracy, it's just incompetence.

A single Syrian unit farked up, farked up pretty badly, but that's human nature.

The conspiracy theorists will tell us that logically, there was no reason for Assad to use NBC's. In that, they're right. There was no logical upside for Assad to use NBC's in the way he did, but logic often isn't the driving force during wartime. In this case, logic probably never entered the equation. It looks like a fark up, an awful fark up, but a fark up.

Really, this has none of the hallmarks of a false flag. Purposefully designed false flags attempt to demonize the opposition. This evidence just makes Assad look like he's losing control of his most important assets. Here's another reason it's not a false flag. This very evidence would probably exonerate Assad if he were ever to face a war crimes tribunal.
/A lot of bad shiat happens during a war, it doesn't always make sense.


This is relevant.  All this proves is that Assad is losing control of his military and they're acting without orders.  Granted, war crimes are being committed as a result, so that points to some hard conversations being made within the Assad government.
 
2013-08-28 09:10:07 AM

OnlyM3: FullMetalPanda
2013-08-28 08:17:52 AM


So did Assad kill Obama's grandma or something because he seems to be the reincarnate of Bush on the lead up to the invasion of Iraq.
Moving TSA from denying water bottles to all out groping of innocents

Expansion of Patriot act.

Expansion of Homeland defense.

Support of gitmo.

Troops still in Afg. and Iraq

Increasing the Bush policy of spying on americans

Drone strikes on civilians

Drones over US airspace

Other than 50% of his race, how exactly is he different than bush?


The letter after his name and the healthcare insurance stimulus known as Obamacare
 
2013-08-28 09:10:30 AM
All right, *now* I'm confused.

Is this a case of:

a)  A Syrian army officer, outwardly an Assad loyalist but secretly sympathetic to the rebels, who ordered his troops to use chemical weapons in an attempt to discredit the government and possibly provoke a US intervention?

or

b) The Syrian Ministry of defense, surmising that the CIA/NSA was listening in on the line, trying to present this whole episode as a command screwup, rather than as an act ordered from the top, in an attempt to evade responsibility for the chemical attack and possibly prevent a US intervention?

or

c) Something else?
 
2013-08-28 09:11:04 AM

DubtodaIll: Infernalist: DubtodaIll: Infernalist: DubtodaIll: LasersHurt: DubtodaIll: LasersHurt: I love how people are pre-emptively so pissed at the war Obama's gotten us into. Soon. Will have gotten us into. Definitely. This is the same as Iraq. Or will have been.

It's not that they're pissed about the potential for war, it's that he's not a man of his word.

You mean he willn't have been a man of his word? Theoretically? Which word is that?

Most of them, it's not just this situation, but this situation is another example of how he makes a great speech and then does something else entirely.

So, what would you do in his place?  And be specific.

I'd make an effort to lead.  I wouldn't make statements about 2nd tier states over whether or not we're going to use our military if they do something we don't agree with.  If they do something that warrants our involvement, then we get involved. I wouldn't need to make threats or ultimatums as the President of the United States of America.   Why do you think he IS a man of his word? And be specific.

Actually, I have a different expectation of whomever ends up as President, but let's deal with your complete nonanswer first.  You would 'lead', which means nothing, especially nothing 'specific' to the situation at hand.  You would 'not' do what he did, but you haven't said what you 'would' do, other than set yourself up to be a goober.

Secondly, I never said he was a man of his word.

Lastly, I want a President that's smart enough to not get us into a mess in the ME and if that means going back on his word, then hoo-farking-rah.

Personally, and this is just my own personal opinion here, you're just biatching to have something to biatch about.  I mean, we're looking at a situation where people have been gassed, no one's yet sure who did it, we're getting close to laying the smack down on 'someone', and your big concern is that the President isn't 'a man of his word.'

So, if you're serious, all I can suggest is turn off Fark and GB ...


That may well be true.
 
2013-08-28 09:11:31 AM

neversubmit: dittybopper: DirtyDeadGhostofEbenezerCooke: The SEC has chemical weapons!

Technically, so does anyone who owns a pool, or who has a bunch of cleaning supplies.

Water is a chemical so water guns are chemical weapons.

/?


Chlorine.  It was the first widely used lethal chemical weapon.
 
2013-08-28 09:11:50 AM

Neighborhood Watch: The Carney barker has been shoved out to answer questions and says that this attack on Syria 'won't be about regime change'.  Well ain't that the sh*t?

Then why did Obama say that Assad 'has to go'?  Isn't that 'about regime change'?

Obama is arming and training the rebels, including Al Qaeda (which Obama calls a 'phony scandal') for the purpose of overthrowing the government.  Isn't that 'about regime change'?


Now that our precious little king has ceased two years of dithering and is pointing the royal scepter at Syria, he still seeks 'permission' from the UN, our supposed allies and a phalanx of lawyers before acting.  Why?  If he's finally decided to 'do something', then what's he waiting for?  Did Israel need 'permission' for the airstrikes it's already carried out in Syria?

Is there a Fark LiberalTM out there who has one damned clue as to WTF is going on here?


My take?  Obama screwed up with his earlier "redline" comment...now he's stuck with it.  It's his first really serious foreign policy blunder, imho.  Which way he wriggles is...kinda important.  He could swallow some pride and back down, or do a limited strike, or get us bogged down in another Bush-style quagmire in that region.

My money's on option 2, but none of them are really "good" at this point.

This current "evidence"?  who knows...I could easily see some local commander launching on his own, or getting a screwed-up order from higher up, just as easily as the rebels doing it themselves.  Not like some of THEM are unwilling to sacrifice the innocent.  Fog of war, etc, etc.
 
2013-08-28 09:12:40 AM

tirob: All right, *now* I'm confused.

Is this a case of:

a)  A Syrian army officer, outwardly an Assad loyalist but secretly sympathetic to the rebels, who ordered his troops to use chemical weapons in an attempt to discredit the government and possibly provoke a US intervention?

or

b) The Syrian Ministry of defense, surmising that the CIA/NSA was listening in on the line, trying to present this whole episode as a command screwup, rather than as an act ordered from the top, in an attempt to evade responsibility for the chemical attack and possibly prevent a US intervention?

or

c) Something else?


If I had to guess, I'd say:

c) Some lower ranking field officer made the horrible mistake of using CWs on his own volition.
 
2013-08-28 09:12:43 AM
My favorite thing about these threads is all the same people comparing Syria to Iraq were comparing Libya to Iraq a couple years ago. And they're saying it without a single sense of irony.
 
2013-08-28 09:13:17 AM

FlashHarry: just curious - if this is a "false flag" operation, what does obama have to gain by it? military intervention in syria is less popular than congress right now. plus it will be expensive. plus it will divert attention from the implementation of obamacare, which really needs to go as smoothly as possible for obama to secure his legacy.

i just don't see any up side. if there were, obama would have engaged in syria long ago.


Follow the money. It's always about money.
 
2013-08-28 09:13:22 AM
There's something rotten in Damascus
 
2013-08-28 09:13:28 AM

PunGent: My take?  Obama screwed up with his earlier "redline" comment...now he's stuck with it.  It's his first really serious foreign policy blunder, imho.


What, precisely, did he say with his "redline" comment? Please go read it, and then explain why it was a blunder.
 
2013-08-28 09:13:51 AM

cameroncrazy1984: My favorite thing about these threads is all the same people comparing Syria to Iraq were comparing Libya to Iraq a couple years ago. And they're saying it without a single sense of irony.


a lot of people are absolutely determined for Obama to have his own version of Iraq.  And Katrina.  And 911.
 
2013-08-28 09:13:57 AM

DubtodaIll: I'd make an effort to lead.


This is how you know you can ignore someone.
 
2013-08-28 09:14:39 AM

Launch Code: So we're going to war AGAIN! Where are the anti war protestors? Where's the code pink nuts? I guess biden and almost all the other demahippocrates are ok with this fight. Most democrats won't speak out against barry or his policies because they fear the almighty jackboot of liberal scorn, political suicide, death threats cold shoulders at dem gatherings etc. Does anyone on the left have the intestinal fortitude to question anything at all that this guy does?

barry is a known narcissist.


As opposed to every other president in the television era?  or ever?

The self-effacing rarely seek high office.
 
2013-08-28 09:15:19 AM

Headso: There's something rotten in Damascus


I don't like the sound of these Rosencrantz and Guildenstern characters, sounds Israeli...
 
2013-08-28 09:15:26 AM

PunGent: Launch Code: So we're going to war AGAIN! Where are the anti war protestors? Where's the code pink nuts? I guess biden and almost all the other demahippocrates are ok with this fight. Most democrats won't speak out against barry or his policies because they fear the almighty jackboot of liberal scorn, political suicide, death threats cold shoulders at dem gatherings etc. Does anyone on the left have the intestinal fortitude to question anything at all that this guy does?

barry is a known narcissist.

As opposed to every other president in the television era?  or ever?

The self-effacing rarely seek high office.


Read his whole post.
 
2013-08-28 09:15:28 AM

Infernalist: a lot of people are absolutely determined for Obama to have his own version of Iraq.  And Katrina.  And 911.



He's doing a pretty good job on his own.
 
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