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(Gawker)   US intel agents intercepted phone calls FALSE FLAG from the Syrian Ministry of Defense FALSE FLAG asking their chemical weapons unit who in the fark told them FALSE FLAG to launch a chemical attack on a suburb full of civilians   (gawker.com) divider line 548
    More: Obvious, chemical warfares, Syrians, Syrian Ministry, syrian ministry of defense, special agents, chemical weapons unit, Secretary of State John Kerry, phone calls  
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10871 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Aug 2013 at 8:03 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-08-28 08:27:59 AM  

illegal.tender: The American people have zero control over the government.


I would agree with that sentiment.
 
2013-08-28 08:28:02 AM  

Tyrone Slothrop: Carth: paulseta: Ah, the Middle East - where everyone is wrong, and everyone is armed.

An armed society is a polite society!

Heinlein never considered a society where people are willing to die for what they believe in. There are stronger motivations than self preservation and fear.


Better idea - egg Israel on until they attack with enough force that Syria responds, using chemical weapons on Israel (with Assad being destroyed in the retaliation). Sit back and just eat popcorn while your problems solve each other.

Afterwords, give some aid to the survivors and take credit at the UN.
 
2013-08-28 08:28:25 AM  

Slaxl: I still lean toward it being genuine, it's not like the Iraq war claim of 45 minutes, and tenuous stories about yellowcake, and GWB making the claim that Iraq sponsors tourism.


I laughed way too hard at this mistake. I'm imagining Saddam Hussein- the bedraggled one we pulled from the spider hole- exhorting people to come see beautiful Iraq- the historic and lovely river banks of Mesopotamia, the blue mosque, the shelling of innocent Kurds... You know, tourism!
 
2013-08-28 08:30:01 AM  

pxlboy: illegal.tender: The American people have zero control over the government.

I would agree with that sentiment.


Our control over the government is called voting.
 
2013-08-28 08:30:16 AM  

give me doughnuts: SockMonkeyHolocaust: Just for old times sake, let's get Colin Powell up in front of the UN to make the case that Syria can deploy those weapons in 45... no 25 minutes and they have mobile labs and that's why we don't know where they are but remember Knight Rider? He had that garage in the back of a trailer truck.

Perhaps you'd care to ask him what he thinks about Syria?


Oh sure. Now he develops a conscience or maybe he sold his shares of Halliburton.
 
2013-08-28 08:30:20 AM  

jshine: Tyrone Slothrop: Carth: paulseta: Ah, the Middle East - where everyone is wrong, and everyone is armed.

An armed society is a polite society!

Heinlein never considered a society where people are willing to die for what they believe in. There are stronger motivations than self preservation and fear.

Better idea - egg Israel on until they attack with enough force that Syria responds, using chemical weapons on Israel (with Assad being destroyed in the retaliation). Sit back and just eat popcorn while your problems solve each other.

Afterwords, give some aid to the survivors and take credit at the UN.


I got a chuckle out of that, but we know that Israel's involvement would suck us in.

Not saying I agree with it, but Israel is chomping at the bit and wants to take us with them.
 
2013-08-28 08:30:25 AM  

bayoubruce: My National friends say "kill them all".    I didn't press for an intelligent answer.


From my visits over there, in most of our "deeply political" (drunk) discussions with locals, they seemed to hate Syrians more than pretty much everyone else in the neighborhood. They seemed to blame Assad for most of the trouble with Lebanon, and a lot of the Palestinian issues.
 
2013-08-28 08:30:39 AM  

xanadian: foo monkey: TenJed_77: Not our problem! We should mot be the police of the world. As it really only causes regional instability, regional countries should intervene if need be. Besides it is another damned if you do, damned if you don't situations.

I'd like to try a damned if we don't.

Seems to me that lately, every time we intervene in the Middle East, we fark it up*.  So, despite the fact that I really REALLY REALLY feel that Assad needs to pay for his crimes, we should just stay out of it.

*one exception would be Libya.  I don't count Benghazi as part of that exception, as it is its own intelligence and logistical farkup.


What "crimes"? Granted, I'm still trying to wrap my head around the fact that Obama (and our Money) is supporting frickin Al'KayDuh - but what 'crimes' did Assad commit, that the Russians are now complicit in as they are 'protecting' him?

Seeing as how the US has lost ALL credibility in pretty much any accusation it makes (because of the lies, and past history of false flags - show me something from at the very least a 'neutral' source (i.e. UN, etc...)
 
2013-08-28 08:31:01 AM  

violentsalvation: It looks to me and most everyone else that chemical weapons were used. I assume by the Assad regime, but I wouldn't put it past the rebels... they have some real shiat heads in their ranks.


A third option I've seen put forward on Al Jazeera America is the possibility that some rogue/semi-independent elements within the regime are trying to force Assad to stick to a hard line course, sabotaging possible peace talks but betting any reaction by the international community will be relatively minor - coming well short of regime toppling.

Seems a bit retarded, but it's not like we haven't seen rogue elements go nuts in that part of the world before.
 
2013-08-28 08:31:06 AM  

badhatharry: pxlboy: illegal.tender: The American people have zero control over the government.

I would agree with that sentiment.

Our control over the government is called voting.


LOL
 
2013-08-28 08:31:32 AM  

SockMonkeyHolocaust: Just for old times sake, let's get Colin Powell up in front of the UN to make the case that Syria can deploy those weapons in 45... no 25 minutes and they have mobile labs and that's why we don't know where they are but remember Knight Rider? He had that garage in the back of a trailer truck.


Hey now. Where do you think these chemical weapons came from?
 
2013-08-28 08:31:41 AM  

Frederick: violentsalvation: Right... Are we blaming Israel yet or are we blaming this "false flag" operation on ourselves?

If you don't want us to take part in their conflict then you can say it. I'll respect your opinion, I'm luke warm on the idea myself. But this headline is silly.

No such things as "False Flags"?  Or just that this wasnt a false flag?

Not Subby, but the headline isnt silly -it's a reasonable scrutiny atm.


Reasonable scrutiny isn't claiming "false flag".

Of course when dealing with a guy who "has a lot of questions" about the holocaust, that is perfectly normal.
 
2013-08-28 08:32:50 AM  
I think we ought to strike the chemical weapons depots/manufacturing facilities then back away.  I know we can't stop it all, but we can put a HUGE dent in that arsenal.  We can do that with missiles from miles away though.  No need for boots on the ground above and beyond the CIA folks who I'm sure are already/always there.
 
2013-08-28 08:32:54 AM  

paulseta: Ah, the Middle East - where everyone is wrong, and everyone is armed.


This same sentence applies to Texas and Florida
 
2013-08-28 08:33:21 AM  
So basically the government has broken down and whoever controls these chemical weapons could use them or even possibly lose control of them at any moment?

Tell me why again we haven't turned any chemical installations we are aware of into ash again?
 
2013-08-28 08:33:43 AM  

CheatCommando: Tyrone Slothrop: Heinlein never considered a society where people are willing to die for what they believe in.

Of course he didn't, even though he had plenty of examples. That would have forced him to reflect on his rugged individualism philosophy, and it is quite evident from his latter works and letters that the man was simply unwilling to do that. I enjoy the books without celebrating the man as some sort of messiah.


Yes, he did, but in the context of alien opponents, like the bugs of Klendathu.
 
2013-08-28 08:33:48 AM  

shower_in_my_socks: I have yet to read an article that tells us how the neighborhood that was attacked was of such strategic importance to Assad that it warranted a chemical gas attack that would assure an ass-kicking by the US and our allies.


News out of the situation is spotty, but one of the common things mentioned is how towns and neighborhoods all over the place are, if not actively taking part by disrupting local government, indirectly supporting by providing food and beds to rebels, and openly supporting them (the first video that came out of Siria was of an entire town literally partying in the streets after Assad's forces were kicked out).

Which, unfortunately, doesn't just make them targets for retaliation, but also targets of example, to demonstrate the cost of providing aid and comfort to the enemy. The use of chemical weapons for this might be new, but the practice itself is not exactly something new in Siria.
 
2013-08-28 08:33:54 AM  
Hundreds of thousands have already died in this conflict and the world does nothing.   Gas a few hundred and now these deaths have more importance and outrage.  Death by bullets, bombs, starvation, and torture still ok though.

/Stuff your sorries in a sack.   Humans beings don't deserve this planet.
 
2013-08-28 08:34:30 AM  

Tatterdemalian: This sort of thing makes it seem more like the rebels are carrying out chem attacks on themselves to manipulate the world into defending them, not less. Unless it's some sort of double bluff carried out in anticipation that US intel would tap that phone call, which, even after the whole NSA scandal, really isn't that likely when people are fighting for their lives.


I didn't think the military, at least the higher ups are afraid for their lives.
 
2013-08-28 08:35:20 AM  

pxlboy: badhatharry: pxlboy: illegal.tender: The American people have zero control over the government.

I would agree with that sentiment.

Our control over the government is called voting.

LOL


Yeah, it doesn't have much power when a 2nd term President doesn't get congressional approval to do this kind of thing.
 
2013-08-28 08:36:06 AM  

ltdanman44: Hundreds of thousands have already died in this conflict and the world does nothing.   Gas a few hundred and now these deaths have more importance and outrage.  Death by bullets, bombs, starvation, and torture still ok though.

/Stuff your sorries in a sack.   Humans beings don't deserve this planet.


Welp... sounds like the Syrians are eliminating them as fast as they can.
 
2013-08-28 08:36:45 AM  

xanadian: Seems to me that lately, every time we intervene in the Middle East, we fark it up.


And for geographically challenged farkers, here's a helpful map of the Middle East:

www.nationsonline.org

No, wait, here it is:

www.nationsonline.org

No, damn it. Middle East, Middle East...

cg043.k12.sd.us

There we go.
 
2013-08-28 08:37:09 AM  

Falstaff: I think we ought to strike the chemical weapons depots/manufacturing facilities then back away.  I know we can't stop it all, but we can put a HUGE dent in that arsenal.  We can do that with missiles from miles away though.No need for boots on the ground above and beyond the CIA folks who I'm sure are already/always there.


We can shoot where we think they are.

We don't know where they are.

Trying to take them out is a big risk.  I am glad my job isnt to guess if it is a bigger risk than doing nothing militarily, adn peopel who think that is an easy question are kidding themselves.
 
2013-08-28 08:38:55 AM  
There was no benefit for Assad using chemical weapons.  That is why this whole thing stinks to high heavens.

Assad can crush the rebels with conventional means and keep the international community on the outside of the issue, but instead he kills civilians with chemical weapons for no strategic or tactical gain.


Plus even if he did do it, it still doesn't mean we should provide support to the rebels, who very likely will be just as bad, if not worse that Assad morally and as a ally in the region.
 
2013-08-28 08:39:19 AM  
Saudis offer Russia secret oil deal if it drops Syria

Saudi Arabia has secretly offered Russia a sweeping deal to control the global oil market and safeguard Russia's gas contracts, if the Kremlin backs away from the Assad regime in Syria.
The revelations come amid high tension in the Middle East, with US, British, and French warships poised for missile strikes against Syria, and Iran threatening to retaliate. The strategic jitters pushed Brent crude prices to a five-month high of $US112 a barrel.

The Putin-Bandar meeting took place three weeks ago. Mr Putin was unmoved by the Saudi offer.


Or maybe not, looks like Putin wont be bribed.
 
2013-08-28 08:39:32 AM  
For the love of God, stay the fark out of Syria.

"The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation," Obama in 2008.

lol.
 
2013-08-28 08:41:10 AM  

illegal.tender: The American people have zero control over the government.


It's only because we believe that statement and act as if we don't, that we don't.
 
2013-08-28 08:41:33 AM  
OK, I RTFA.

Before passing judgement, I'd like to see the translated transcript.  From that, I'll have a good idea if it's legit or not.

I do have to say, though that this would be pretty damned convenient for the administration:

In the intercepted phone calls, one official at the Syrian Ministry of Defense reportedly demands answers from the chemical weapons unit's leader for the alleged chemical weapons attack that killed over 1,300 people last week.

That kind of lets the administration off the hook somewhat for their "red line" statements, because it was the work of a local commander, and not something ordered from on high and possibly done against standing orders from the Syria MoD.

The administration could then just do a very limited, symbolic strike, and not have to actually do anything serious, but they did paint themselves into a bit of a corner.

On the plus side, it might have the end effect of Syria tightening up their controls on the use of chemical weapons.  If this was a rogue local commander, it would be in Syria's best interests internationally to publicly arrest and punish the commander responsible.  Domestically, it might help also, but probably not.
 
2013-08-28 08:41:45 AM  
Alex jones says we are toolin up feh war wid dem ruskies...we are through the looking glass ladies and gentlemen!!! Buy all my fear mongering stuff, 5million salary last year for my wife wasnt enough/p>
 
2013-08-28 08:43:13 AM  

macadamnut: xanadian: Seems to me that lately, every time we intervene in the Middle East, we fark it up.

And for geographically challenged farkers, here's a helpful map of the Middle East:

[562x432 from http://www.nationsonline.org/maps/central_america_map_855.jpg image 562x432]

No, wait, here it is:

[562x357 from http://www.nationsonline.org/maps/south_east_asia_map.jpg image 562x357]

No, damn it. Middle East, Middle East...

[562x360 from http://cg043.k12.sd.us/regions%20of%20the%20US%20webquest/southe1.gif image 562x360]

There we go.


The SEC has chemical weapons!
 
2013-08-28 08:43:47 AM  

macadamnut: No, damn it. Middle East, Middle East...

There we go.


Heh, we even farked up the Reconstruction, didn't we?  And we're still hearing the echoes from that one (even though they get dimmer with time).
 
2013-08-28 08:45:20 AM  

DirtyDeadGhostofEbenezerCooke: The SEC has chemical weapons!


Technically, so does anyone who owns a pool, or who has a bunch of cleaning supplies.
 
2013-08-28 08:45:20 AM  

macadamnut: There we go.


Point made.

*golf clap*
 
2013-08-28 08:45:22 AM  

MugzyBrown: There was no benefit for Assad using chemical weapons.  That is why this whole thing stinks to high heavens.

Assad can crush the rebels with conventional means and keep the international community on the outside of the issue, but instead he kills civilians with chemical weapons for no strategic or tactical gain.


Plus even if he did do it, it still doesn't mean we should provide support to the rebels, who very likely will be just as bad, if not worse that Assad morally and as a ally in the region.


Doesn't look like it so far.

Assad has shown he is fien with using "fear" to keep civilians from uspporting rebels.  Chemical weapons fits with that pattern.  The question is if you think he is worried enough about the "redline" that he would not use them.
 
2013-08-28 08:45:55 AM  

FC Exile: SockMonkeyHolocaust: Just for old times sake, let's get Colin Powell up in front of the UN to make the case that Syria can deploy those weapons in 45... no 25 minutes and they have mobile labs and that's why we don't know where they are but remember Knight Rider? He had that garage in the back of a trailer truck.

Hey now. Where do you think these chemical weapons came from?


I made the mistake of making a joke about French, Russian and American arms dealers using shell companies and I realized that while it's probably true I should shut up because I sound like a conspiracy theorist.

ltdanman44: Hundreds of thousands have already died in this conflict and the world does nothing.   Gas a few hundred and now these deaths have more importance and outrage.  Death by bullets, bombs, starvation, and torture still ok though.

/Stuff your sorries in a sack.   Humans beings don't deserve this planet.


From a geopolitical standpoint, the question is if they let Syria get away with using chemical weapons how much leverage and confidence will Iran get to make nuclear weapons. So yeah, a country can have a civil war and both sides can sell arms or insert "advisors" but once it expands outside the borders it becomes a problem.
 
2013-08-28 08:47:09 AM  

jshine: WI say we should invade immediately; the oppressed people will greet us as liberators!


Wisconsin wants to help the Al Qaeda rebels?
 
2013-08-28 08:47:31 AM  
What I find amazing is our "outrage" of the use of chemical weapons (which are generally produced by the U.S. and are basically ineffective at scale). So we'll use cruise missiles, drones and cluster bombs which are far more "humane" to intervene in a civil war at the behest of Israel that will effective further inflame the region.

\fark that
 
2013-08-28 08:47:44 AM  

dittybopper: DirtyDeadGhostofEbenezerCooke: The SEC has chemical weapons!

Technically, so does anyone who owns a pool, or who has a bunch of cleaning supplies.


Water is a chemical so water guns are chemical weapons.

/?
 
2013-08-28 08:47:47 AM  
I love how people are pre-emptively so pissed at the war Obama's gotten us into. Soon. Will have gotten us into. Definitely. This is the same as Iraq. Or will have been.
 
2013-08-28 08:48:54 AM  

liam76: We can shoot where we think they are.

We don't know where they are.

Trying to take them out is a big risk. I am glad my job isnt to guess if it is a bigger risk than doing nothing militarily, adn peopel who think that is an easy question are kidding themselves.


Also one thing to note is that technically many chemical weapons are not even weapons. They are often chemicals that are used in standardized industrial processes so how do you separate the two?
 
2013-08-28 08:49:13 AM  
While the phone calls, if true, would prove that the Syrian government was responsible for the attacks,

No, it would NOT. The Russian ambassador submitted an 80-page report to the U.N. back in July, stating that the sarin used in the recent attacks had not been chemically stabilized. That means that the sarin was recently manufactured and unsuitable for long-term storage. Also, the weapons used to deliver the sarin were primitive compared to the weapons the Syrian government is known to have.

He said the analysis showed that the unguided Basha'ir-3 rocket that hit Khan al-Assal was not a military-standard chemical weapon. Churkin said the results indicate it "was not industrially manufactured and was filled with sarin." He said the samples indicated the sarin and the projectile were produced in makeshift "cottage industry" conditions, and the projectile "is not a standard one for chemical use."

Sarin production does not require sophisticated equipment. Figuring out whether or not the sarin is chemically stabilized is an easily-verifiable fact. There are samples of it all over the goddamn place, so I'd like that see our government answer that one simple question before we belly-flop into another quagmire with our tails ablazin'.
 
2013-08-28 08:49:49 AM  
The Carney barker has been shoved out to answer questions and says that this attack on Syria 'won't be about regime change'.  Well ain't that the sh*t?

Then why did Obama say that Assad 'has to go'?  Isn't that 'about regime change'?

Obama is arming and training the rebels, including Al Qaeda (which Obama calls a 'phony scandal') for the purpose of overthrowing the government.  Isn't that 'about regime change'?


Now that our precious little king has ceased two years of dithering and is pointing the royal scepter at Syria, he still seeks 'permission' from the UN, our supposed allies and a phalanx of lawyers before acting.  Why?  If he's finally decided to 'do something', then what's he waiting for?  Did Israel need 'permission' for the airstrikes it's already carried out in Syria?

Is there a Fark LiberalTM out there who has one damned clue as to WTF is going on here?
 
2013-08-28 08:50:32 AM  
The cry of 'false flag' is generally done by those whom have already determined the reality of things and generally disregard evidence that disputes their pre-determined conclusion as to what reality is.

Conspiracy theorists are the worst when it comes to these sorts of declarations, but many partisans of all flavors are fond of using 'false flag' to disregard things that don't fit into the narratives in their heads.
 
2013-08-28 08:50:55 AM  
So we're going to war AGAIN! Where are the anti war protestors? Where's the code pink nuts? I guess biden and almost all the other demahippocrates are ok with this fight. Most democrats won't speak out against barry or his policies because they fear the almighty jackboot of liberal scorn, political suicide, death threats cold shoulders at dem gatherings etc. Does anyone on the left have the intestinal fortitude to question anything at all that this guy does?

barry is a known narcissist. Are you sure he's not doing this because he's tired of being laughed at by the other world leaders for being soft, wishy washy and not understanding how the rest of the world works? Is it possible that in his circle of advisors, hollywood friends, news outlets, can't do so I teach educators and other obamorons, that he believes he solved the worlds hatred of America with some really hip speeches? He's about to provide some very heavy ordnance to rebel fighters. Some of these same rebels are terrorists. Has he forgotten what happened a little over a decade ago to America? barry doesn't fit the Bush cowboy mo. He's more of the guy in charge of the Apple Dumpling gang, but do you really want him invading another country just because his feelings are constantly hurt at world leader meetings or so he can support his rebel (hint, they really hate Americans) friends? It wouldn't surprise me if the whole reason for this invasion is because Syria had lots of sunlight and its windy. No Blood For Green Energy!
 
2013-08-28 08:51:13 AM  

shower_in_my_socks: I have yet to read an article that tells us how the neighborhood that was attacked was of such strategic importance to Assad that it warranted a chemical gas attack that would assure an ass-kicking by the US and our allies.


Chances are the neighborhood wasn't *THAT* important in the grand scheme of things, however the rebels have been pretty by the book with disturbing Assad's ability to nail them down. They hit an area, they occupy it, they force Assad to send resources to reoccupy it, then they retreat. Do this fifty times in a short time span and it keeps the other guys off kilter, the tactic is called a "Counter-Blitz". 

Its baseless speculation on my part but I wouldn't be shocked if Assad was just overwhelmed and ordered the area to be gassed.
 
2013-08-28 08:51:55 AM  

IdBeCrazyIf: So basically the government has broken down and whoever controls these chemical weapons could use them or even possibly lose control of them at any moment?

Tell me why again we haven't turned any chemical installations we are aware of into ash again?


Because it's REALLY hard to "safely" incinerate these weapons (there are HUGE plants in Utah and MD to do it to US stockpiles), and it'd be pretty bad to just unleash our own cloud of poison gas on locals...

The odds you could level and incinerate an entire factory/stockpile are really low.
 
2013-08-28 08:51:59 AM  

LasersHurt: I love how people are pre-emptively so pissed at the war Obama's gotten us into. Soon. Will have gotten us into. Definitely. This is the same as Iraq. Or will have been.


It's not that they're pissed about the potential for war, it's that he's not a man of his word.
 
2013-08-28 08:52:47 AM  
When it comes to Syria...there is one thing that is for sure.

...we can't trust a farkin' thing John Kerry says.
 
2013-08-28 08:52:49 AM  

Launch Code: So we're going to war AGAIN! Where are the anti war protestors? Where's the code pink nuts? I guess biden and almost all the other demahippocrates are ok with this fight. Most democrats won't speak out against barry or his policies because they fear the almighty jackboot of liberal scorn, political suicide, death threats cold shoulders at dem gatherings etc. Does anyone on the left have the intestinal fortitude to question anything at all that this guy does?

barry is a known narcissist. Are you sure he's not doing this because he's tired of being laughed at by the other world leaders for being soft, wishy washy and not understanding how the rest of the world works? Is it possible that in his circle of advisors, hollywood friends, news outlets, can't do so I teach educators and other obamorons, that he believes he solved the worlds hatred of America with some really hip speeches? He's about to provide some very heavy ordnance to rebel fighters. Some of these same rebels are terrorists. Has he forgotten what happened a little over a decade ago to America? barry doesn't fit the Bush cowboy mo. He's more of the guy in charge of the Apple Dumpling gang, but do you really want him invading another country just because his feelings are constantly hurt at world leader meetings or so he can support his rebel (hint, they really hate Americans) friends? It wouldn't surprise me if the whole reason for this invasion is because Syria had lots of sunlight and its windy. No Blood For Green Energy!


3/10
 
2013-08-28 08:53:32 AM  

DubtodaIll: LasersHurt: I love how people are pre-emptively so pissed at the war Obama's gotten us into. Soon. Will have gotten us into. Definitely. This is the same as Iraq. Or will have been.

It's not that they're pissed about the potential for war, it's that he's not a man of his word.


You mean he willn't have been a man of his word? Theoretically? Which word is that?
 
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