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(Gawker)   US intel agents intercepted phone calls FALSE FLAG from the Syrian Ministry of Defense FALSE FLAG asking their chemical weapons unit who in the fark told them FALSE FLAG to launch a chemical attack on a suburb full of civilians   (gawker.com) divider line 549
    More: Obvious, chemical warfares, Syrians, Syrian Ministry, syrian ministry of defense, special agents, chemical weapons unit, Secretary of State John Kerry, phone calls  
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10868 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Aug 2013 at 8:03 AM (52 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-08-28 03:22:14 AM
I have yet to read an article that tells us how the neighborhood that was attacked was of such strategic importance to Assad that it warranted a chemical gas attack that would assure an ass-kicking by the US and our allies.
 
2013-08-28 03:29:14 AM
I'm not understanding this whole mess.
 
2013-08-28 03:48:34 AM
Right... Are we blaming Israel yet or are we blaming this "false flag" operation on ourselves?

If you don't want us to take part in their conflict then you can say it. I'll respect your opinion, I'm luke warm on the idea myself. But this headline is silly.
 
2013-08-28 03:55:14 AM

violentsalvation: Right... Are we blaming Israel yet or are we blaming this "false flag" operation on ourselves?

If you don't want us to take part in their conflict then you can say it. I'll respect your opinion, I'm luke warm on the idea myself. But this headline is silly.


No such things as "False Flags"?  Or just that this wasnt a false flag?

Not Subby, but the headline isnt silly -it's a reasonable scrutiny atm.
 
2013-08-28 04:08:37 AM

Frederick: violentsalvation: Right... Are we blaming Israel yet or are we blaming this "false flag" operation on ourselves?

If you don't want us to take part in their conflict then you can say it. I'll respect your opinion, I'm luke warm on the idea myself. But this headline is silly.

No such things as "False Flags"?  Or just that this wasnt a false flag?

Not Subby, but the headline isnt silly -it's a reasonable scrutiny atm.


It looks to me and most everyone else that chemical weapons were used. I assume by the Assad regime, but I wouldn't put it past the rebels... they have some real shiat heads in their ranks. But to assume a leak of "yeah hey we picked this phone call up" as a greater false flag operation is stupid. We have at least one spy agency spying on our calls domestically, to assume we aren't actively snooping around and intercepting calls in the war-torn Middle East is pretty silly. To call it a false flag is a total diversion meant to take focus away from the true belligerents in this civil war.
 
2013-08-28 04:11:43 AM
It's amazing how we all still, collectively, have not forgotten the lies that led to and the damage caused by the previous wars. People say the public are fickle and forget everything when X-Factor comes on but I'm seeing very little support for the war, and lots of questioning official versions.

For the record I believe chemical weapons have been used against rebels, and we should still stay out, because whichever side we help will be brutal towards their own people. Also politicians are useless and will botch the whole thing because of election cycles.

I was very much for intervention at the beginning, before I knew anything about the rebels, but I always was impulsive, I'm glad the governments are not, even if at the end of this 2 year period they're still making the wrong decision, you can hardly accuse them of rushing into it.
 
2013-08-28 04:22:54 AM

violentsalvation: Frederick: violentsalvation: Right... Are we blaming Israel yet or are we blaming this "false flag" operation on ourselves?

If you don't want us to take part in their conflict then you can say it. I'll respect your opinion, I'm luke warm on the idea myself. But this headline is silly.

No such things as "False Flags"?  Or just that this wasnt a false flag?

Not Subby, but the headline isnt silly -it's a reasonable scrutiny atm.

It looks to me and most everyone else that chemical weapons were used. I assume by the Assad regime, but I wouldn't put it past the rebels... they have some real shiat heads in their ranks. But to assume a leak of "yeah hey we picked this phone call up" as a greater false flag operation is stupid. We have at least one spy agency spying on our calls domestically, to assume we aren't actively snooping around and intercepting calls in the war-torn Middle East is pretty silly. To call it a false flag is a total diversion meant to take focus away from the true belligerents in this civil war.


I may be wrong but my interpretation of the headline and the half-assed charge is that chemical weapons were indeed used but maybe not by those who it is claimed.

Me, personally, I dont even know who the belligerents are in this conflict, but I do know a lot of resources are invested in espionage by the US and other countries, therefore I think it wise to consider the possibility of false flag operations in every situation.

Since I dont know a lot about this situation I'd first ask "what was gained by a chemical attack?"
 
2013-08-28 04:33:44 AM

shower_in_my_socks: I have yet to read an article that tells us how the neighborhood that was attacked was of such strategic importance to Assad that it warranted a chemical gas attack that would assure an ass-kicking by the US and our allies.


Frederick: Since I dont know a lot about this situation I'd first ask "what was gained by a chemical attack?"


It's a reasonable question, and all I can surmise is that if the Assad regime did use chemical weapons they might have thought either that in the west we're all bluster with no appetite for war, or have been assured by Russia that they can do what they want and they will keep the west at bay.

It does seem suicidal to use chemical weapons which would most likely invoke the wrath of the west, perhaps they're just not smart? Or thought they could keep it secret?

I don't think the west wants to go to war, I think we have no stomach for it, so I don't see them manufacturing a casus belli. Although writing that made me consider the possibility that because we have no appetite for a war is precisely why they'd need to manufacture such an event, to get the people riled up and in support of the war.

I still lean toward it being genuine, it's not like the Iraq war claim of 45 minutes, and tenuous stories about yellowcake, and GWB making the claim that Iraq sponsors tourism.
 
2013-08-28 05:01:26 AM

shower_in_my_socks: I have yet to read an article that tells us how the neighborhood that was attacked was of such strategic importance to Assad that it warranted a chemical gas attack that would assure an ass-kicking by the US and our allies.


assure?

He's had free reign to do what ever he wants to. why would he think that would change now?
 
2013-08-28 05:02:10 AM
someone posted this yesterday or the day before. I found it pretty enlightening.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/syria-behind-the-lines/
 
2013-08-28 05:07:50 AM

log_jammin: someone posted this yesterday or the day before. I found it pretty enlightening.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/syria-behind-the-lines/


I am a fan of Frontline, but alas, I cannot watch videos at work.  I'll try to remember to watch it at home.  Thanks.
 
2013-08-28 05:15:32 AM
Well, good, somebody found the fig leaf to cover America's exit from the pending invasion. And no, subby, the "US Intelligence agents" would never lie to us. We're Americans.
 
2013-08-28 05:18:26 AM

This About That: pending invasion


never happen.
 
2013-08-28 05:20:18 AM
As an American expat working in Israel, I do not want to see a US  strike.  I'm prepaired to be disappointed.

 .
 
2013-08-28 05:36:36 AM

log_jammin: This About That: pending invasion

never happen.


Let's hope not. The stock market thinks otherwise.
 
2013-08-28 05:38:21 AM

bayoubruce: As an American expat working in Israel, I do not want to see a US  strike.  I'm prepaired to be disappointed.


Are you familiar enough with your colleagues to get a consensus on their feelings regarding a US strike?  I'm curious....
 
2013-08-28 05:47:00 AM
My National friends say "kill them all".    I didn't press for an intelligent answer.
 
2013-08-28 05:49:56 AM

This About That: Let's hope not. The stock market thinks otherwise.


The stock market thinks current levels of CEO pay is sustainable and that the housing market could never ever lose value.
 
2013-08-28 05:57:18 AM
Not our problem! We should mot be the police of the world. As it really only causes regional instability, regional countries should intervene if need be. Besides it is another damned if you do, damned if you don't situations.
 
2013-08-28 05:57:36 AM
Ah, the Middle East - where everyone is wrong, and everyone is armed.
 
2013-08-28 08:07:50 AM
There was no real evidence to go to war with Iraq and we made some up to justify it. Why can't we ignore real evidence of war crimes in Syria and make up evidence to not go to war?
 
2013-08-28 08:08:42 AM
Just for old times sake, let's get Colin Powell up in front of the UN to make the case that Syria can deploy those weapons in 45... no 25 minutes and they have mobile labs and that's why we don't know where they are but remember Knight Rider? He had that garage in the back of a trailer truck.
 
2013-08-28 08:09:49 AM

paulseta: Ah, the Middle East - where everyone is wrong, and everyone is armed.


An armed society is a polite society!
 
2013-08-28 08:11:05 AM
It's all about getting British and American planes in the air over the region so the AMERICAN SAMs spirited through Bengazi by AMERICANS can be used to shoot down AMERICAN planes to foster enough outrage to start the "big one" for economic purposes. War will get the world out of debt by killing all the people that everyone owes money to.
 
2013-08-28 08:11:41 AM

Frederick: Since I dont know a lot about this situation I'd first ask "what was gained by a chemical attack?"



Dead enemies and fearful survivors. The same in every kind of attack.
 
2013-08-28 08:12:12 AM

paulseta: Ah, the Middle East - where everyone is wrong, and everyone is armed.


and the points don't matter
 
2013-08-28 08:14:22 AM

SockMonkeyHolocaust: Just for old times sake, let's get Colin Powell up in front of the UN to make the case that Syria can deploy those weapons in 45... no 25 minutes and they have mobile labs and that's why we don't know where they are but remember Knight Rider? He had that garage in the back of a trailer truck.


Perhaps you'd care to ask him what he thinks about Syria?
 
2013-08-28 08:15:25 AM
Still think that the UN should be the one handling this with the US taking only a support role i.e. no new troops from the US and only the assets allocated to the UN should be given.
 
2013-08-28 08:16:19 AM

tkwasny: It's all about getting British and American planes in the air over the region so the AMERICAN SAMs spirited through Bengazi by AMERICANS can be used to shoot down AMERICAN planes to foster enough outrage to start the "big one" for economic purposes. War will get the world out of debt by killing all the people that everyone owes money to.


Wow you're blowing the lid off of this thing.
 
2013-08-28 08:17:21 AM
I would guess it was the infiltrated Al Quaeda operative. Obviously not an order from the top. Let's bomb them.
 
2013-08-28 08:17:35 AM
So in these phone calls, where the Syrian army isn't expecting anyone to listen to and presumably speaking candidly, show that they never authorized any chemical attacks, didn't expect their chemical weapons division to carry any out without said authorization, and were told by the chem division that they actually didn't carry out any such attacks.

This sort of thing makes it seem more like the rebels are carrying out chem attacks on themselves to manipulate the world into defending them, not less. Unless it's some sort of double bluff carried out in anticipation that US intel would tap that phone call, which, even after the whole NSA scandal, really isn't that likely when people are fighting for their lives.

/of course, the "civilized world" would condemn Assad just for having a division that manufactures chem weapons
//pretty much the same way they condemn the USA for manufacturing guns, inventing nukes, etc.
///gotta love those unintended consequences of fanatical pacifism
 
2013-08-28 08:17:48 AM

tkwasny: It's all about getting British and American planes in the air over the region so the AMERICAN SAMs spirited through Bengazi by AMERICANS can be used to shoot down AMERICAN planes to foster enough outrage to start the "big one" for economic purposes. War will get the world out of debt by killing all the people that everyone owes money to.


You had me at debt.

LET'S DO THIS!
 
2013-08-28 08:17:52 AM
So did Assad kill Obama's grandma or something because he seems to be the reincarnate of Bush on the lead up to the invasion of Iraq.
 
2013-08-28 08:18:01 AM
FTFA: "We don't know exactly why it happened," the intelligence official added. "We just know it was pretty farking stupid."

The "intelligence official" was later heard to say that the use of CW in Syria is "a big farking deal."
 
2013-08-28 08:18:41 AM

TenJed_77: Not our problem! We should mot be the police of the world. As it really only causes regional instability, regional countries should intervene if need be. Besides it is another damned if you do, damned if you don't situations.


I'd like to try a damned if we don't.
 
2013-08-28 08:18:45 AM
Also:  I hope that this information didn't come by way of the Italian intelligence community...
 
2013-08-28 08:18:47 AM

MorrisBird: I'm not understanding this whole mess.


nor me. I doubt definitive facts that would clear it all up will be forthcoming anytime soon as well. it turns out the powers that be keep quite a lot secret
 
2013-08-28 08:19:16 AM

Carth: paulseta: Ah, the Middle East - where everyone is wrong, and everyone is armed.

An armed society is a polite society!


Heinlein never considered a society where people are willing to die for what they believe in. There are stronger motivations than self preservation and fear.
 
2013-08-28 08:21:22 AM

This About That: log_jammin: This About That: pending invasion

never happen.

Let's hope not. The stock market thinks otherwise.


Its inevitable.
Once you make "red line" statements, you base your credibility on making a response when the line is crossed.  A response that now means doing something about Assad's chemical weapons, which we've just admitted exist and are at risk of falling into worse hands than his.
Blowing a chemical weapon stash up means spreading the mess, so that's not an option. I doubt this guys turning stuff over willingly. That means someone's got to go there and dispose of those shells in person.

Who gets the Job, the Syrian rebels and Al Queda?
I'd suggest the UN, but that's a joke when they can't even drive across a city.
Maybe the French or Brit... No, probably not. Russia sure as hell isn't interested either.


Who's left?

/A winner is U.S.!
 
2013-08-28 08:21:43 AM

foo monkey: TenJed_77: Not our problem! We should mot be the police of the world. As it really only causes regional instability, regional countries should intervene if need be. Besides it is another damned if you do, damned if you don't situations.

I'd like to try a damned if we don't.


Seems to me that lately, every time we intervene in the Middle East, we fark it up*.  So, despite the fact that I really REALLY REALLY feel that Assad needs to pay for his crimes, we should just stay out of it.

*one exception would be Libya.  I don't count Benghazi as part of that exception, as it is its own intelligence and logistical farkup.
 
2013-08-28 08:22:01 AM
WI say we should invade immediately; the oppressed people will greet us as liberators!
 
2013-08-28 08:22:18 AM

give me doughnuts: SockMonkeyHolocaust: Just for old times sake, let's get Colin Powell up in front of the UN to make the case that Syria can deploy those weapons in 45... no 25 minutes and they have mobile labs and that's why we don't know where they are but remember Knight Rider? He had that garage in the back of a trailer truck.

Perhaps you'd care to ask him what he thinks about Syria?


Remind me, why should anyone care what that lying shiat-heel's says ever again?

"I have no affection for Mr. Assad. I've dealt with him. I know him. And he is a pathological liar, with respect to my interaction with him," Powell said.

Oh right, comedy.
 
2013-08-28 08:22:31 AM
The "intervention" is a done deal, Mr. Putin is already backing away from Assad.
 
2013-08-28 08:22:57 AM
Hello. Welcome to the Syrian Army Headquarters. Your call is important to us. If you would like to speak to someone in authority, please press 1 now. If you would like to order a replacement AK-47, please press 2 now. To initiate an attack on a Syrian neighborhood, please press 3. Se hablbo Espanol, pulse zero.
(Beep)
You have selected "Initiate attack on Syrian Neighborhood". If you want conventional weapons, press 1. For non conventional weapon, wink, wink, press 2.
(beep)
You have selected "Non conventional weapons" United Nations protocols require you leave your Syrian Identification Number as proof of ordering such an attack. Please enter it and press pound when you are done.
(beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, pound)
You have entered "zero, zero, zero, zero, zero, zero, zero, zero, zero, zero, zero, zero, zero, zero, zero, zero, zero, zero, zero, zero, zero, zero, zero, zero, zero, zero, zero, zero, zero, zero." If this is correct, press pound.
(pound)
Thank you. A non conventional weapon attack has been initiated as requested by you. Please stay on the line. We would like you to complete a short survey to gauge your customer satisfaction...
 
2013-08-28 08:23:23 AM
hey  Subby, can you do us all a favor and just link to the damned Foreign Policy story rather than Gawker?  I'd prefer to give the clicks to the actual journalists.

http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2013/08/27/exclusive_us_spies _ say_intercepted_calls_prove_syrias_army_used_nerve_gas
 
2013-08-28 08:23:24 AM
Would the Taliban/AlQaeda/Islamo-psychos gas their own people to bait the US into expanding the conflict?

I think yes.
 
2013-08-28 08:24:22 AM
The American people have zero control over the government.
 
2013-08-28 08:26:02 AM

LandOfChocolate: paulseta: Ah, the Middle East - where everyone is wrong, and everyone is armed.

and the points don't matter


Now here's Netanyahu and Assad doing "Scenes from a Hat."
 
2013-08-28 08:27:13 AM

Tyrone Slothrop: Heinlein never considered a society where people are willing to die for what they believe in. There are stronger motivations than self preservation and fear.


Go back and re-read Starship Troopers. Hell, even just see the movie. We're talking about survival of the species here.

/Do ya wanna live forever?/
 
2013-08-28 08:27:51 AM

Tyrone Slothrop: Heinlein never considered a society where people are willing to die for what they believe in.


Of course he didn't, even though he had plenty of examples. That would have forced him to reflect on his rugged individualism philosophy, and it is quite evident from his latter works and letters that the man was simply unwilling to do that. I enjoy the books without celebrating the man as some sort of messiah.
 
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