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(Bloomberg)   The fix is in: over the past two years, currency dealers have manipulated rates at the London fix which has distorted the values of investments by trillions of dollars. EVERYBODY PANIC and then grab a pitchfork   (bloomberg.com) divider line 45
    More: Scary, exchange rates, index funds, Fellowship of Christian Athletes, company, ICAP, U.S. Commodity Futures Trading Commission, World Markets, UBSN  
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2088 clicks; posted to Business » on 28 Aug 2013 at 9:57 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



45 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-08-28 08:22:50 AM
www.simpsonschannel.com
 
2013-08-28 08:40:36 AM
In the space of 20 minutes on the last Friday in June, the value of the U.S. dollar jumped 0.57 percent against its Canadian counterpart, the biggest move in a month. Within an hour, two-thirds of that gain had melted away.

i.imgur.com

"Amateurs", says the man that broke the Bank of England, single-handedly caused the UK to drop the ERM, devalued the pound sterling, and made $1b in a single day doing it.
 
2013-08-28 08:49:07 AM
Drink!
 
2013-08-28 08:53:37 AM
I can't be bothered with grabbing my pitchfork.  I'm too busy watching my Money Market account expand wildly at a rate of 0.03% APY.
 
2013-08-28 08:56:59 AM
Liquidity, it's all good, please don't investigate further.
 
2013-08-28 09:33:24 AM
Obligatory:

farm4.staticflickr.com
 
2013-08-28 10:05:08 AM

Elegy: In the space of 20 minutes on the last Friday in June, the value of the U.S. dollar jumped 0.57 percent against its Canadian counterpart, the biggest move in a month. Within an hour, two-thirds of that gain had melted away.

[154x200 from http://i.imgur.com/rhBvOKD.png image 154x200]

"Amateurs", says the man that broke the Bank of England, single-handedly caused the UK to drop the ERM, devalued the pound sterling, and made $1b in a single day doing it.


The real tragedy is that these people thrash trillions of everyone's value to get a mere few billion.

I had a midget lawyer suggest to me one time that we pull a Goldfinger, where we nuke Fort Knox to cause the devaluation of US currency. I pointed out that someone beat him to the punch by devaluing the currency 98%.
 
2013-08-28 10:19:35 AM

wildcardjack: I had a midget lawyer suggest to me one time that we pull a Goldfinger, where we nuke Fort Knox to cause the devaluation of US currency. I pointed out that someone beat him to the punch by devaluing the currency 98%.


I thought he wanted to nuke Fort Knox to inflate the value of the gold he was smuggling from Britain.
 
2013-08-28 10:23:42 AM
I can't afford a pitchfork. All my investments are tied up in the pitchfork industry.
 
2013-08-28 10:25:22 AM
Anyone who thinks that the same population will riot in 2013 that didn't in 2008-2009 is delusional.
 
2013-08-28 10:35:50 AM

Wendy's Chili: wildcardjack: I had a midget lawyer suggest to me one time that we pull a Goldfinger, where we nuke Fort Knox to cause the devaluation of US currency. I pointed out that someone beat him to the punch by devaluing the currency 98%.

I thought he wanted to nuke Fort Knox to inflate the value of the gold he was smuggling from Britain.


...yeah, it was all about inflating the value of his own gold. I suppose that, by necessity, devalues any gold-backed currencies, too...
 
2013-08-28 10:38:45 AM

AngryDragon: Anyone who thinks that the same population will riot in 2013 that didn't in 2008-2009 is delusional.


We now return you to your regularly scheduled partisan poo-flinging.
 
2013-08-28 10:43:05 AM
Kind of like counting cards at the blackjack table.

Of course, if a bad decision is made...
 
2013-08-28 10:45:00 AM
ms-brown.wikispaces.com

/someone gonna argue this time?
 
2013-08-28 10:45:14 AM
This nothing compared to what George Soros has done numerous times. Where were your pitchforks then, hypocrites?
 
2013-08-28 10:53:44 AM
These f*ckers really aren't going to jump. I'm with Sergeant Grumbles on this one.
 
2013-08-28 11:05:25 AM

Sergeant Grumbles: /someone gonna argue this time?


No, we'll all point and laugh, as we do every time someone compares our current situation to 18th century France.

Pitchforks, revolution, guilliotines. I'm sure it's coming any day now.
 
2013-08-28 11:08:04 AM
It's almost like basing our economy on speculative trading was a bad idea.
 
2013-08-28 11:08:47 AM

Nemo's Brother: This nothing compared to what George Soros has done numerous times. Where were your pitchforks then, hypocrites?


Soros did it the old fashioned way - he stuck his neck out.

The banks, on the other hand, are rigging the system in their favor.

I don't know that you're smart enough to see the difference, but trust me, there's a difference.
 
2013-08-28 11:10:59 AM

Nemo's Brother: This nothing compared to what George Soros has done numerous times. Where were your pitchforks then, hypocrites?


Please explain how Soros had done this numerous times.

I suspect you have no clue what Soros has actually done, and what is actually being done here.
 
2013-08-28 11:11:42 AM

AngryDragon: Anyone who thinks that the same population will riot in 2013 that didn't in 2008-2009 is delusional.


Meh more of us have stopped looking for work.
 
2013-08-28 11:14:18 AM

Nemo's Brother: This nothing compared to what George Soros has done numerous times. Where were your pitchforks then, hypocrites?


Whether or not what George Soros has done was illegal or unethical, or did damage, it differs from what these guys are doing.

Traders are trying to time their trades so that a snapshot of prices at 4pm (when benchmarks are reset) favor their own positions. They are basically cheating against each other, and any other people whose positions are opposite the cheaters. This stuff, while against the rules and probably illegal, isnt going to cripple a country like massively shorting their currency. Just like the LIBOR thing, you as a layperson are as equally likely to benefit as be hurt by their manipulation.
 
2013-08-28 11:18:56 AM

impaler: Please explain how Soros had done this numerous times.

I suspect you have no clue what Soros has actually done, and what is actually being done here.


Look... I may not actually comprehend Soros' business model, but 4 times a day I get a FW:FW:FW:FW:FW:FW:FW:FW:FW:FW SOROS IS THE ZIONIST MASTERMIND OF AMERIKKKA'S DESTRUCTION email from my Uncle Walt and my Uncle Walt knows the good Waffle House from the so-so Waffle House.
 
2013-08-28 11:19:16 AM

Marcus Aurelius: Soros did it the old fashioned way - he stuck his neck out.

The banks, on the other hand, are rigging the system in their favor.

I don't know that you're smart enough to see the difference, but trust me, there's a difference.


No shat. Soros, didn't "break the Bank of England." He saw that the Bank of England's attempt to maintain a fixed exchange rate wasn't sustainable, so he merely bit against them. The Bank of England broke themselves. He got rich shorting their folly. The monster.
 
2013-08-28 11:23:50 AM

wildcardjack: I had a midget lawyer suggest to me one time that we pull a Goldfinger, where we nuke Fort Knox to cause the devaluation of US currency. I pointed out that someone beat him to the punch by devaluing the currency 98%.


An average annual inflation rate of 3.8% over 70 years is just horrible.
 
2013-08-28 11:33:00 AM
This will never happen with Bitcoin!
 
2013-08-28 11:38:07 AM

The_Gallant_Gallstone: impaler: Please explain how Soros had done this numerous times.

I suspect you have no clue what Soros has actually done, and what is actually being done here.

Look... I may not actually comprehend Soros' business model, but 4 times a day I get a FW:FW:FW:FW:FW:FW:FW:FW:FW:FW SOROS IS THE ZIONIST MASTERMIND OF AMERIKKKA'S DESTRUCTION email from my Uncle Walt and my Uncle Walt knows the good Waffle House from the so-so Waffle House.


There was a TeaBagger in my neck of the woods who said, "any research article forwarded numerous times has, essentially, been peer-reviewed. Each FWD adds a layer of credibility, which the left can't stand."

He was deadpan. He meant it.
 
2013-08-28 11:58:52 AM

Testiclaw: The_Gallant_Gallstone: impaler: Please explain how Soros had done this numerous times.

I suspect you have no clue what Soros has actually done, and what is actually being done here.

Look... I may not actually comprehend Soros' business model, but 4 times a day I get a FW:FW:FW:FW:FW:FW:FW:FW:FW:FW SOROS IS THE ZIONIST MASTERMIND OF AMERIKKKA'S DESTRUCTION email from my Uncle Walt and my Uncle Walt knows the good Waffle House from the so-so Waffle House.

There was a TeaBagger in my neck of the woods who said, "any research article forwarded numerous times has, essentially, been peer-reviewed. Each FWD adds a layer of credibility, which the left can't stand."

He was deadpan. He meant it.


Good grief, that's like double facepalm, impossible to keep a straight face material.
 
2013-08-28 12:18:59 PM
Well, the important thing is that no-one, except maybe one scapegoat, goes to jail and they all keep their ill gotten gains.
 
2013-08-28 12:19:09 PM
...So, is this different from the LIBOR manipulation scandal?

I try to keep up, but you know, life and other distractions. I get scandal fatigue and just assume Wall Street and the international equivalents are always cheating somehow, and occasionally get caught and hands get slapped.
 
2013-08-28 12:21:09 PM

The_Gallant_Gallstone: impaler: Please explain how Soros had done this numerous times.

I suspect you have no clue what Soros has actually done, and what is actually being done here.

Look... I may not actually comprehend Soros' business model, but 4 times a day I get a FW:FW:FW:FW:FW:FW:FW:FW:FW:FW SOROS IS THE ZIONIST MASTERMIND OF AMERIKKKA'S DESTRUCTION email from my Uncle Walt and my Uncle Walt knows the good Waffle House from the so-so Waffle House.


The sad part is if Soros started going off on how climate change is a hoax, he'd be a hero and he always was a hero!

/now I want waffles...
 
2013-08-28 12:31:05 PM

whither_apophis: The sad part is if Soros started going off on how climate change is a hoax, he'd be a hero and he always was a hero!


Soros the man that broke the Bank of England Communist Party of Czechoslovakia , single-handedly caused the UK to drop the ERM democracy to flourish in Eastern Europe.
 
2013-08-28 01:32:18 PM

Debeo Summa Credo: Just like the LIBOR thing, you as a layperson are as equally likely to benefit as be hurt by their manipulation.


It's bullshiat like this that makes you such an endearing rascal.
This pretend economy crap always spills over to the real economy - you know, the one where people build things and sell services - and always to the detriment of the people who actually build things and perform the services. We have 35 years of data on the "financialization" of the economy, which has led to Robber Baron levels of economic disparity and the death of the middle class.

Wall Street isn't overdue for guillotines. It's overdue for a thorough flensing with a dash of salt and lemon.
 
2013-08-28 02:32:21 PM

plcow: This will never happen with Bitcoin!


I see this has already been covered
 
2013-08-28 02:51:50 PM

impaler: Marcus Aurelius: Soros did it the old fashioned way - he stuck his neck out.

The banks, on the other hand, are rigging the system in their favor.

I don't know that you're smart enough to see the difference, but trust me, there's a difference.

No shat. Soros, didn't "break the Bank of England." He saw that the Bank of England's attempt to maintain a fixed exchange rate wasn't sustainable, so he merely bit against them. The Bank of England broke themselves. He got rich shorting their folly. The monster.


So a massive accumulation of wealth into the hands of one person driven by the profit motive, devaluing the entire currency of a first world nation, and costing taxpayers $3b to make $1b for himself in profit is entirely ok, as long as we like the guy's politics?

Cool.
 
2013-08-28 04:20:44 PM

Elegy: o a massive accumulation of wealth into the hands of one person driven by the profit motive, devaluing the entire currency of a first world nation, and costing taxpayers $3b to make $1b for himself in profit is entirely ok, as long as we like the guy's politics?


You think one person has the power to devalue the entire currency of a nation?

He saw the Bank of England would have to devalue their currency. So he made a bet that would win if they did.

If I tell you it's going to get cold this winter, and I go out and buy snow tires, do you think I'm responsible when it snows in December?

And where did I even suggest it's "ok, as long as we like the guy's politics"?
 
2013-08-28 05:01:44 PM

impaler: And where did I even suggest it's "ok, as long as we like the guy's politics"?


You now how this works. This is FARK.
The Koch Brothers are exactly like George Soros, both sides are bad, so vote Republican.

Though to be perfectly honest, what hyperliberal thing is George Soros doing that even compares to things like the Kochs are doing in Wisconsin? He donates money to MoveOn.org and....? I mean, I heard he was an evil Communist mastermind whose money helped groom a young Obama, but that's not quite in the same vein...
 
2013-08-28 05:28:42 PM

Sergeant Grumbles: I heard he was an evil Communist mastermind whose money helped groom a young Obama, but that's not quite in the same vein...


Worse yet, he funded revolutions that toppled communists regimes. That's how bad these guys are at things. That can't do anything right.
 
2013-08-28 08:08:51 PM

impaler: You think one person has the power to devalue the entire currency of a nation?


Yes, when you command that sort of capital, you can do it in certain countries. Maybe not the US, whose economy exceeds the power of any one individual or institution, but in smaller economies, certainly. And other investors jumped on board for Black Wednesday when they saw what was happening, but Soros was the driving force who instigated the whole affair, and he had the largest amount invested in the scheme and he consequently raked in the largest profit.

He saw the Bank of England would have to devalue their currency. So he made a bet that would win if they did.

That's not quite how it happened, and you are either ill informed or outright lying. One of Soro's fund manager came to him and told him that due to the ERM (which was paving the way for the economic integration and eventual formation of the EU and the euro by keeping the pound sterling pegged to the German mark), the Bank of Britain was in a tenuous position that would be unsustainable given enough leverage. Although the fund manager came up with the idea, Soros pulled the trigger so he gets the credit.

Soros sold short something like £10b-£12b short in a single day, and put enormous pressure on the Bank of England to defend the ERM. I saw an interview with him later (that I now can't seem to find) where he said he was actually surprised that the Bank of England broke when it did; he was prepared to invest double what he had already invested to make it drop out of the ERM and devalue the pound.

Up until that point, no other trader had spotted the weakness in the ERM, or if they had they hadn't the capital to take advantage of it. The ERM may or may not have been defensible in the long term for the BoE without the outside pressure that Soros brought to bear on it, but we will never really know because Soros saw a weakness in it and basically shredded it for an (admittedly vast) short term profit.

Again - one man caused a nation to drop out of of an international monetary agreement and to devalue its currency because it couldn't defend it's position. Others were involved, but Soros was the man driving the bus.

If I tell you it's going to get cold this winter, and I go out and buy snow tires, do you think I'm responsible when it snows in December?

This is a really poor analogy because it suggest that Black Wednesday was like the weather and outside of human control, which was decidedly not the case.

But to continue your analogy, I would blame you when it snows in December if it showed no signs of snowing, so you went out and bought £10b worth of snow machines to blanket the town in 6ft deep snow to teach me the error of my ways for not buying snow tires.

Was what Soros did legal? Absolutely. Was it ethical? Borderline in a normal sense, definitely ethical in a business sense - he knew what succeeding would entail for the taxpayers, and didn't care as long as he made his money.

And where did I even suggest it's "ok, as long as we like the guy's politics"?

You seem to suggest it here:

impaler: whither_apophis: The sad part is if Soros started going off on how climate change is a hoax, he'd be a hero and he always was a hero!

Soros the man that broke the Bank of England Communist Party of Czechoslovakia , single-handedly caused the UK to drop the ERM democracy to flourish in Eastern Europe.


So it's OK if a guy raids currencies and devastates a few economies to make a buck, as long as he supports the political causes we like, yes?

Political jab aside, you seem to have no problems with what Soros did (wield an economic hammer against an international agreement), but you do seem to agree with the sentiment that what Soros did was A-OK, but what the currency traders are currently doing is somehow "rigging the game" in favor of the banks.

Let's look at what they are currently doing compared to the discussion above: currency traders know that the index values are compiled off the market values at 4:00pm every day. A pattern has emerged that shows certain currency pairs are overvalued by an average of 0.54% at 4:00pm each day, suggesting that currency traders are engaging in trades that will affect the value of the index in a way that is marginally advantageous to themselves. No international agreements are broken in the process, and no taxpayers are on the hook for £3b, and there is no massive devaluation of the currencies involved.

Those monsters.

Here's an idea - generate the market index at a random time every day, selected by a random number generator. Problem solved.

Sergeant Grumbles: You now how this works. This is FARK.
The Koch Brothers are exactly like George Soros, both sides are bad, so vote Republican.


I'm pretty sure Wall Street doesn't give a fark which way you vote, and they'll still be making money hand over fist regardless. And the Koch Brothers are a whole 'nother bag of tools that I'd rather not open in this thread.
 
2013-08-28 09:57:33 PM
i152.photobucket.com
 
2013-08-28 10:07:11 PM
Remember, boys and girls:

i578.photobucket.com

Class warfare.

i156.photobucket.com

Not class warfare.
 
2013-08-28 10:11:25 PM

Elegy: So it's OK if a guy raids currencies and devastates a few economies to make a buck, as long as he supports the political causes we like, yes?


Soitanly.  If GEOOOOORRRRRGE SOOOOORRRRROOOOOS! were writing legislation for voting restrictions, deregulation and right to mooch off the union, Fox Izvestia would call him a hero and you Koch suckers would huzzah right after them.
 
2013-08-29 07:56:35 AM

AngryDragon: Anyone who thinks that the same population will riot in 2013 that didn't in 2008-2009 is delusional.


Seriously. The world economy implodes... no revolt.

The USA is spying on everyone. Absolutely everyone. And they've been doing it for years... no revolt.

This story here won't even blip on the screen of the average person.
 
2013-08-29 08:24:54 AM

Lee Jackson Beauregard: Elegy: So it's OK if a guy raids currencies and devastates a few economies to make a buck, as long as he supports the political causes we like, yes?

Soitanly.  If GEOOOOORRRRRGE SOOOOORRRRROOOOOS! were writing legislation for voting restrictions, deregulation and right to mooch off the union, Fox Izvestia would call him a hero and you Koch suckers would huzzah right after them.


It's amusing how you seem to think that if someone speaks critically of George Soros, they must subscribe to Glenn Beck style conspiracy theories that he is the "puppet master," while simultaneously being all "ra ra ra Koch brothers."

It must be nice to be so simple minded that you live in a world of black and white. Comforting, even, when it's a big scary world out there that you have to struggle so hard to understand....
 
2013-08-29 02:40:26 PM
How's that Usury Priesthood working out for you, Western Civilization?
 
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