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(Reuters)   Now would be a really good time to ask your boss for some time off if you're working as a night janitor at some government building in Damascus, Homs or Aleppo   (reuters.com) divider line 47
    More: Obvious, Hagel, United States, U.S. military, Brunei  
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3635 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 Aug 2013 at 5:45 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



47 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-08-27 05:48:48 PM  
Can we not directly target Assad and his family?
 
2013-08-27 05:49:13 PM  

vernonFL: Can we not directly target Assad and his family?


This is not Vietnam, there are rules.
 
2013-08-27 05:50:14 PM  
you know, i understand that sometimes as president you need to do unpopular things, but when a whopping 91% of your citizens don't want you to do something, maybe you should take that into account
 
2013-08-27 05:50:33 PM  
Iraq 2: Electric bugaloo. Just wait till we create another Iran with this dipshiattery.
 
2013-08-27 05:51:23 PM  
Just a few cruise missiles that's all. They were about to hit their expiration date anyway.
 
2013-08-27 05:54:08 PM  

vernonFL: Can we not directly target Assad and his family?


No no, see, we're not trying to affect regime change. That's what supplying the rebels is for. We (plan to) give them weapons so they can drag out their civil war for a while while trying to affect their own regime change.

No, this unilateral attack is only to deter the use of chemical weapons. So no, we can't directly target Assad. That would be wrong.

i.imgur.com
 
2013-08-27 05:56:02 PM  
My in-laws just returned from visiting family outside Beirut.  While they were there, there were two car bomb attacks in the country.  Neither close to where they were, but enough to rattle me.  They are all so used to it that it just doesn't phase them.

My wife wants to go back for the first time in almost 15 years next summer.  I'm holding off until we see if something settles down there.

/Other than dust.
 
2013-08-27 05:56:26 PM  

tlchwi02: you know, i understand that sometimes as president you need to do unpopular things, but when a whopping 91% of your citizens don't want you to do something, maybe you should take that into account


I was about to make a smartass remark, but those numbers do check out. holycrap. I personally don't have a problem with a few cruise missiles, but that's it.
 
2013-08-27 05:56:30 PM  

tlchwi02: you know, i understand that sometimes as president you need to do unpopular things, but when a whopping 91% of your citizens don't want you to do something, maybe you should take that into account


[citation]?

To be fair, the use of chemical weapons should not go unanswered by the world. Whether or not the answer the US (and a few other countries) is working up is the right way to respond is an entirely different matter.
 
2013-08-27 05:56:35 PM  
We've been through the "Me Decade", the "You Decade" and the "Them Decade".  Is this the "Deja Vu Decade"?
 
2013-08-27 05:57:28 PM  
www.blogcdn.com

Knows what you did there, subby

/hot, like a bombed out Janitorial staff
 
2013-08-27 05:59:13 PM  

vernonFL: Can we not directly target Assad and his family?


You know where they're staying? Because I bet the DOD would really like to have that intel.
 
2013-08-27 06:00:54 PM  

vernonFL: Can we not directly target Assad and his family?


Buddy of mine who was an F-14 pilot at the time killed Saddam Hussein's mother-in-law in one of our shots at him.

/CSB
 
2013-08-27 06:05:10 PM  

100 Watt Walrus: tlchwi02: you know, i understand that sometimes as president you need to do unpopular things, but when a whopping 91% of your citizens don't want you to do something, maybe you should take that into account

[citation]?

To be fair, the use of chemical weapons should not go unanswered by the world. Whether or not the answer the US (and a few other countries) is working up is the right way to respond is an entirely different matter.


Ah, I just noticed something in the stories. No polling can be found (at least by me) after the "supposed" chemical weapons were used. Methinks the numbers might be different now. At least for a non-boots on the ground response, supported by the UN.
 
2013-08-27 06:06:04 PM  

mbillips: vernonFL: Can we not directly target Assad and his family?

Buddy of mine who was an F-14 pilot at the time killed Saddam Hussein's mother-in-law in one of our shots at him.

/CSB


Aiding the enemy, huh?
 
2013-08-27 06:06:40 PM  
tlchwi02
when a whopping 91% of your citizens don't want you to do something, maybe you should take that into account


That's only a thing in cowardly Old Europe.
 
2013-08-27 06:06:46 PM  

Kentucky Fried Children: [300x125 from http://www.blogcdn.com/blog.moviefone.com/media/2013/05/r-the-american -president-large570.jpg image 300x125]

Knows what you did there, subby

/hot, like a bombed out Janitorial staff


This is the most unpresidential thing he'll do...

/love that movie
 
2013-08-27 06:13:31 PM  

100 Watt Walrus: tlchwi02: you know, i understand that sometimes as president you need to do unpopular things, but when a whopping 91% of your citizens don't want you to do something, maybe you should take that into account

[citation]?

To be fair, the use of chemical weapons should not go unanswered by the world. Whether or not the answer the US (and a few other countries) is working up is the right way to respond is an entirely different matter.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/08/26/new-pol l- syria-intervention-even-less-popular-than-congress/

the story indicates the poll was done when we learned about the chemical attacks. I think i speak for at least the majority of americans when i say i'm sick and tired of pointless wars in crap hole countries. i don't care if they nuke each other, resort to cannabalism or elect justin beiber as their emperor for life. don't get involved
 
2013-08-27 06:14:55 PM  

vernonFL: Can we not directly target Assad and his family?


Then what?

You still have four factions -- the Alawites, the FSA, ISIS, and the Kurds. The FSA, ISIS, and the Kurds are all rebels.

The Kurds and the Alawites have a non-aggression pact, and the Alawites have basically abandoned Kurdish territory and vice-versa. The Alawites are gambling on being able to take it back after they deal with the FSA/ISIS. The Kurds are gambling on being able to consolidate while no one's paying attention and being able to splinter into an autonomous region/their own country.

Both the FSA and ISIS are trying to take control from the Alawites, but hate each other. Both are fighting border wars with the Kurds.

So you've got a bunch of rivalries.

Alawites vs. Kurds, FSA, and ISIS (Assad vs. rebels)
Alawites vs. FSA/ISIS (Assad vs. rebel Syrian federalists)
FSA vs. ISIS (secular vs fundamentalist rebels)
FSA/ISIS vs. Kurds (federalists vs. breakaway)

You've also got Alawites vs. Kurds, who don't like each other, but aren't fighting.

At some point, you need to figure out who's gonna run the place, and you have the live knowing that three groups aren't gonna like it. And that they all basically want to ethnically cleanse the other three.

The best solution, sadly, is probably Assad winning in the west and the Kurds splintering off into an autonomous region in the northeast. The worst is ISIS winning. Somewhere in between is the FSA winning.
 
2013-08-27 06:23:44 PM  

tlchwi02: 100 Watt Walrus: tlchwi02: you know, i understand that sometimes as president you need to do unpopular things, but when a whopping 91% of your citizens don't want you to do something, maybe you should take that into account

[citation]?

To be fair, the use of chemical weapons should not go unanswered by the world. Whether or not the answer the US (and a few other countries) is working up is the right way to respond is an entirely different matter.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/08/26/new-pol l- syria-intervention-even-less-popular-than-congress/

the story indicates the poll was done when we learned about the chemical attacks. I think i speak for at least the majority of americans when i say i'm sick and tired of pointless wars in crap hole countries. i don't care if they nuke each other, resort to cannabalism or elect justin beiber as their emperor for life. don't get involved


no, if they elect bieber as emperor, then we intervene and glass the place... You know take care of two problems at once
 
2013-08-27 06:28:16 PM  

This text is now purple: vernonFL: Can we not directly target Assad and his family?

Then what?

You still have four factions -- the Alawites, the FSA, ISIS, and the Kurds. The FSA, ISIS, and the Kurds are all rebels.

The Kurds and the Alawites have a non-aggression pact, and the Alawites have basically abandoned Kurdish territory and vice-versa. The Alawites are gambling on being able to take it back after they deal with the FSA/ISIS. The Kurds are gambling on being able to consolidate while no one's paying attention and being able to splinter into an autonomous region/their own country.

Both the FSA and ISIS are trying to take control from the Alawites, but hate each other. Both are fighting border wars with the Kurds.

So you've got a bunch of rivalries.

Alawites vs. Kurds, FSA, and ISIS (Assad vs. rebels)
Alawites vs. FSA/ISIS (Assad vs. rebel Syrian federalists)
FSA vs. ISIS (secular vs fundamentalist rebels)
FSA/ISIS vs. Kurds (federalists vs. breakaway)

You've also got Alawites vs. Kurds, who don't like each other, but aren't fighting.

At some point, you need to figure out who's gonna run the place, and you have the live knowing that three groups aren't gonna like it. And that they all basically want to ethnically cleanse the other three.

The best solution, sadly, is probably Assad winning in the west and the Kurds splintering off into an autonomous region in the northeast. The worst is ISIS winning. Somewhere in between is the FSA winning.


I'd not seen it broken down like this before. All I've been reading is "both sides suck!" and "We have to do something! Chemical Weapons!!".

Thanks for the synopsis.
 
2013-08-27 06:28:56 PM  

dchurch0: Thanks for the synopsis.


Yah this.
 
2013-08-27 06:32:45 PM  

McEnroe My Childhood Nemesis: Kentucky Fried Children: [300x125 from http://www.blogcdn.com/blog.moviefone.com/media/2013/05/r-the-american -president-large570.jpg image 300x125]

Knows what you did there, subby

/hot, like a bombed out Janitorial staff

This is the most unpresidential thing he'll do...

/love that movie


When I read the headline I thought of the "The West Wing."  Did Sorkin put a similar speech in an early "West Wing" episode?
 
2013-08-27 06:32:59 PM  

Zul the Magnificent: dchurch0: Thanks for the synopsis.

Yah this.


I just want to know if Lana is part of the ISIS force in Syria
I always worry when she's in a danger zone
 
2013-08-27 06:38:20 PM  
I hope to God we at least get the Arab League's backing on any action. France, the UK and Germany are not enough. We really don't need to keep policing the world on our own, and it continually destroys our credibility.
 
2013-08-27 06:38:48 PM  

CodeMonkey4Life: Zul the Magnificent: dchurch0: Thanks for the synopsis.

Yah this.

I just want to know if Lana is part of the ISIS force in Syria
I always worry when she's in a danger zone


Lana.

Lana.

Lana.

LANA.

LANA.

LANA!!!
 
2013-08-27 07:07:04 PM  

PainfulItching: Just a few cruise missiles that's all. They were about to hit their expiration date anyway.


So if the USIrael starts launching missiles into Syria, What stops Assad from just unleashing all his alleged chemical weapons all over the region knowing full well his days are going to be numbered.
 
2013-08-27 07:22:01 PM  

tlchwi02: 100 Watt Walrus: tlchwi02: you know, i understand that sometimes as president you need to do unpopular things, but when a whopping 91% of your citizens don't want you to do something, maybe you should take that into account

[citation]?

To be fair, the use of chemical weapons should not go unanswered by the world. Whether or not the answer the US (and a few other countries) is working up is the right way to respond is an entirely different matter.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/08/26/new-pol l- syria-intervention-even-less-popular-than-congress/

the story indicates the poll was done when we learned about the chemical attacks. I think i speak for at least the majority of americans when i say i'm sick and tired of pointless wars in crap hole countries. i don't care if they nuke each other, resort to cannabalism or elect justin beiber as their emperor for life. don't get involved


Thanks for the link.

I'm also weary of getting involved, but the use of chemical weapons should not go unanswered, and unfortunately, Russia and China are doing their thing that prevents any body with genuine authority to take any action. I don't think that means the US should necessarily act unilaterally or militarily. I don't know what the correct response is.

But I can say this: the Obama administration is blowing the PR on this big-time. As far as the news cycle and the awareness of the American public, the possibility of military action seems to have come completely out of left field. I think to most people, this feels like a sudden, random opening of a third front in the Middle East when we should be de-escalating and getting the fark out of there.

What's worse, they're half-assing it:

"We're not trying to depose Assad...with this particular action. We're doing that in other ways, but we would never bomb Assad out of power. We'll bomb his army for other reasons, like chemical weapons. But for heaven's sake, we'd never try to bomb him to help end the civil war. That's the Syrian people's problem, not ours."

So why are we going to attack because of chemical weapons?

"Well, Assad is doing something awful to his own people."

But you just said...

"No, no, see, we can't help them change the government that's hurting them. We can only punish that government for hurting them."

WTF?
 
2013-08-27 07:23:09 PM  

Polish Hussar: McEnroe My Childhood Nemesis: Kentucky Fried Children: [300x125 from http://www.blogcdn.com/blog.moviefone.com/media/2013/05/r-the-american -president-large570.jpg image 300x125]

Knows what you did there, subby

/hot, like a bombed out Janitorial staff

This is the most unpresidential thing he'll do...

/love that movie

When I read the headline I thought of the "The West Wing."  Did Sorkin put a similar speech in an early "West Wing" episode?


Yes. President Bartlett and Leo were debating what a Proportionate response is. The joint cheifs had a plan to bomb communications. He wanted to go in and bomb the hell out of a country for shooting down the plane that his doctor was in. In the end I think he decided to bomb a communications building.
 
2013-08-27 07:24:29 PM  

flynn80: PainfulItching: Just a few cruise missiles that's all. They were about to hit their expiration date anyway.

So if the USIrael starts launching missiles into Syria, What stops Assad from just unleashing all his alleged chemical weapons all over the region knowing full well his days are going to be numbered.


So nobody does anything and lets one guy run rampant? How else do you deal with a bully?

And before you say the US is being a bully, Syria has been warned numerous times by the UN, crossing the line numerous times, and then bragging about it in the world press. No one can claim it was unprovoked.
 
2013-08-27 07:33:08 PM  

tlchwi02: you know, i understand that sometimes as president you need to do unpopular things, but when a whopping 91% of your citizens don't want you to do something, maybe you should take that into account


Obama can't hear them over the sound of how awesome he is.
 
2013-08-27 07:38:30 PM  
I can see striking Mount Qasioun since they launched the chemical weapons. It would be better if Israel did it since Syria is buddies with Hamas.
 
2013-08-27 07:55:13 PM  

PainfulItching: mbillips: vernonFL: Can we not directly target Assad and his family?

Buddy of mine who was an F-14 pilot at the time killed Saddam Hussein's mother-in-law in one of our shots at him.

/CSB

Aiding the enemy, huh?



Nice.
 
2013-08-27 07:56:59 PM  
What business do we have sending a military response into Syria when it's not even constitutional for the United States to have a military?!
 
2013-08-27 08:00:55 PM  

PainfulItching: So nobody does anything and lets one guy run rampant? How else do you deal with a bully?

And before you say the US is being a bully, Syria has been warned numerous times by the UN, crossing the line numerous times, and then bragging about it in the world press. No one can claim it was unprovoked.


Uh How exactly is he running rampant?  Is he attacking other sovereign nations without declaring war?  And since Syria has been warned by the UN why would they so blatantly violate those warnings while at the same time allowing in inspectors(who the US wants to remove before they are even done, just like happened in Iraq), and instead of targeting the rebel leaders(who are mostly hired mercs and terrorists from Saudi arabia and Qatar) they kill civilians and some of his own troops near the Capital.  Seems more like more BS propaganda by the MIC to justify another war against a country not subject to the central banking cartel.
 
2013-08-27 09:09:01 PM  

tlchwi02: you know, i understand that sometimes as president you need to do unpopular things, but when a whopping 91% of your citizens don't want you to do something, maybe you should take that into account


generally speaking you are right however Netanyahu, McCain, Graham etc holds more water than even the combined 91% of proletariats.
 
2013-08-27 09:18:21 PM  
img41.imageshack.us

/ may as well go on the NSA list with the rest of you
// I'm just a harmless internet jockey
 
2013-08-27 09:35:48 PM  
Aleppo was the least funny of all the Marx brothers.
 
2013-08-27 09:51:53 PM  

tlchwi02: the story indicates the poll was done when we learned about the chemical attacks. I think i speak for at least the majority of americans when i say i'm sick and tired of pointless wars in crap hole countries. i don't care if they nuke each other, resort to cannabalism or elect justin beiber as their emperor for life. don't get involved


THIS GODDAMN IT!

fark the Middle East, let them kill each other off.  It's time for us to stay the hell out of it.
 
2013-08-27 10:11:51 PM  

Eirik: My in-laws just returned from visiting family outside Beirut.  While they were there, there were two car bomb attacks in the country.  Neither close to where they were, but enough to rattle me.  They are all so used to it that it just doesn't phase them.

My wife wants to go back for the first time in almost 15 years next summer.  I'm holding off until we see if something settles down there.

/Other than dust.


I'm plain jane American and got back last weekend from Lebanon. The first bombing was about ten hours before I left.

But we're not the sort of people to be running around in the areas likely to be bombed so no one was worked up about.

Love the people and country and can't wait to go back every time I leave.
 
2013-08-27 10:35:42 PM  

The Voice of Doom: tlchwi02
when a whopping 91% of your citizens don't want you to do something, maybe you should take that into account

That's only a thing in cowardly Old Europe.


Such cowards :(
 
2013-08-27 11:17:38 PM  
I voted for Obama twice, but I am beginning to think his biggest mistake so far was the public warning to Assad that using chemical weapons would be a Red-Line that would provoke a US response. Why not just send a warning through diplomatic channels privately? Its not like any reasonable person doesn't already know Chemical weapons are taboo....all he did was make himself look weak, and US. I personally am sick of the United States being expected to save everyone's asses and fix everyone's problems. Screw them, I say. They wouldn't do fark all for us if the tables were turned.
 
2013-08-27 11:42:07 PM  
You could always get a non-janitorial job changing gas price signs.
 
2013-08-28 12:54:52 AM  

Summa cum loudly: I voted for Obama twice, but I am beginning to think his biggest mistake so far was the public warning to Assad that using chemical weapons would be a Red-Line that would provoke a US response. Why not just send a warning through diplomatic channels privately? Its not like any reasonable person doesn't already know Chemical weapons are taboo....all he did was make himself look weak, and US. I personally am sick of the United States being expected to save everyone's asses and fix everyone's problems. Screw them, I say. They wouldn't do fark all for us if the tables were turned.


Not to mention that the US bombing a third Middle East country is only going to feed the Al Qaeda propaganda machine.
 
2013-08-28 12:57:17 AM  

100 Watt Walrus: Not to mention that the US bombing a third yet another Middle East country is only going to feed the Al Qaeda propaganda machine.


FTFM.

/third - who am I kidding?
 
2013-08-28 04:46:14 AM  
fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net
 
2013-08-28 06:51:20 AM  
The UN and Arab League are not on board.
 
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