If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(NBC News)   Park system now finding out what happens when you never let areas burn periodically as they helplessly get ready to watch The Great Sequoias become charcoal in California   (usnews.nbcnews.com) divider line 164
    More: Sad, Yosemite National Park, Yosemite National Park 15, park system, California Department of Forestry, fire protection, percent contained, wildfires, National Park Service  
•       •       •

13917 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 Aug 2013 at 4:49 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



164 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | » | Last | Show all
 
2013-08-26 03:57:05 PM
I'd buy some Great Sequoias charcoal.
 
2013-08-26 04:52:15 PM
No no no no.
Let the white man steward the land.
he knows so much better how to do this than the people that have survived on this land for thousands of years.
You take those slackers and park them on some hell hole of a nuclear testing ground and farking let them rot. They don't know what the fark they are doing. Let the white man steward the land. He is so much better at it.
 
2013-08-26 04:55:25 PM

vudukungfu: No no no no.
Let the white man steward the land.
he knows so much better how to do this than the people that have survived on this land for thousands of years.
You take those slackers and park them on some hell hole of a nuclear testing ground and farking let them rot. They don't know what the fark they are doing. Let the white man steward the land. He is so much better at it.


You sound brown.

And racist.
 
2013-08-26 04:55:30 PM
I have to head down to Eureka for work soon, this is not good news.
 
2013-08-26 04:56:25 PM
Woops, nevermind.  I always though they were closer together.
 
2013-08-26 04:56:32 PM
I know that we want to preserve the park but our mandate should be to preserve nature from man and not preserve nature from itself.

It is natural for a forest to periodically burn down.
 
2013-08-26 04:58:21 PM
vudukungfu

"The people that have survived" are doing great here in Oklahoma between smoke shops and casinos they are buying up pretty much everything.

/wish I had my Cherokee ID card...
 
2013-08-26 04:58:31 PM

abfalter: I know that we want to preserve the park but our mandate should be to preserve nature from man and not preserve nature from itself.

It is natural for a forest to periodically burn down.


Unless a spotted owl lives nearby.  In which case, make a human shield around the flames.
 
2013-08-26 04:58:32 PM
Occam's Nailfile: vudukungfu: No no no no.
Let the white man steward the land.
he knows so much better how to do this than the people that have survived on this land for thousands of years.
You take those slackers and park them on some hell hole of a nuclear testing ground and farking let them rot. They don't know what the fark they are doing. Let the white man steward the land. He is so much better at it.

You sound brown. smart . 

And racist.

ftfy
 
2013-08-26 04:58:50 PM
The raging flames also loomed over towering sequoias that are among the largest and oldest living things on the planet. The iconic trees can withstand fire...

What's the problem again?
 
2013-08-26 05:00:03 PM

abfalter: I know that we want to preserve the park but our mandate should be to preserve nature from man and not preserve nature from itself.

It is natural for a forest to periodically burn down.


FTA:
"The iconic trees can withstand fire"

Apparently not these.
 
2013-08-26 05:00:15 PM
On the bright side, this does help a bit with that wild horse problem.
 
2013-08-26 05:00:38 PM

Occam's Nailfile: vudukungfu: No no no no.
Let the white man steward the land.
he knows so much better how to do this than the people that have survived on this land for thousands of years.
You take those slackers and park them on some hell hole of a nuclear testing ground and farking let them rot. They don't know what the fark they are doing. Let the white man steward the land. He is so much better at it.

You sound brown.

And racist.


I read that as brown and tasty.

Good gravy.
 
2013-08-26 05:01:18 PM

abfalter: I know that we want to preserve the park but our mandate should be to preserve nature from man and not preserve nature from itself.

It is natural for a forest to periodically burn down.


But not the sequoias. They're special.
 
2013-08-26 05:01:40 PM
This was never a problem before man invented fire.
 
2013-08-26 05:02:01 PM

debug: The raging flames also loomed over towering sequoias that are among the largest and oldest living things on the planet. The iconic trees can withstand fire...

What's the problem again?


Decades of putting out forest fires ASAP has led to many areas having a greater than normal density of undergrowth. In such conditions, a fire can become intense enough to burn out even larger sequoias. In more natural conditions, the forest fires are usually not intense enough to kill the giant trees.
 
2013-08-26 05:02:08 PM

abfalter: It is natural for a forest to periodically burn down.


It does not have to 'burn down'.  Many of the big tree forest (Doug Fir, Yellow Pine, Redwood) are pretty fire resistent so long as the fire is small and contained to the forest floor.  However, when you let fuels build up over the years without allowing perodic firest, prescribed burns, selective logging, etc. you end up with fires that are much hotter and will find ther way into the canopy, effectivly killing everything in its path.  Some can even burn so hot as to sterilize the forest floor, making regeneration much more difficult.
 
2013-08-26 05:02:41 PM

vudukungfu: No no no no.
Let the white man steward the land.
he knows so much better how to do this than the people that have survived on this land for thousands of years.
You take those slackers and park them on some hell hole of a nuclear testing ground and farking let them rot. They don't know what the fark they are doing. Let the white man steward the land. He is so much better at it.


OK, wait, let me try this...

No no no no.
Let the black man run Detroit.
You take those cracker corporatists and run them out of town on a rail.  They don't know what the fark they are doing.  Let the black man run Detroit.  He is so much better at it.

Now do you see how racist you sound?
 
2013-08-26 05:02:50 PM
That sound you hear is a million Republicans fapping to the idea of the Sequoias burning, shows them darned liberals for not letting them make picnic tables out of them in the first place.
 
2013-08-26 05:03:49 PM

debug: The raging flames also loomed over towering sequoias that are among the largest and oldest living things on the planet. The iconic trees can withstand fire...

What's the problem again?


They can withstand small intensity fires.  These type of wildfires on the other hand. . . .
 
2013-08-26 05:03:56 PM

Mad_Radhu: On the bright side, this does help a bit with that wild horse problem.


What's the problem? Too much poo?
 
2013-08-26 05:04:22 PM

abfalter: I know that we want to preserve the park but our mandate should be to preserve nature from man and not preserve nature from itself.

It is natural for a forest to periodically burn down.

how do you know this wasn't caused by man? either directly or indirectly?
 
2013-08-26 05:04:33 PM
The big sequoias can live through pretty bad fires.  Part of their natural cycle is for fires to burn through and kill all the small stuff.  Of course, we are talking about one of the worst droughts in recorded history, so it might not be fair to blame it all on the Forestry Service.
 
2013-08-26 05:05:49 PM

debug: The raging flames also loomed over towering sequoias that are among the largest and oldest living things on the planet. The iconic trees can withstand fire...

What's the problem again?


It's not just that. The trees actually need fire to reproduce.
 
2013-08-26 05:07:14 PM
To get my hometown on Fark it just has to burn down. Got it.
 
2013-08-26 05:07:54 PM

Low Budget Dave: The big sequoias can live through pretty bad fires.  Part of their natural cycle is for fires to burn through and kill all the small stuff.  Of course, we are talking about one of the worst droughts in recorded history, so it might not be fair to blame it all on the Forestry Service.


Recorded history started awhile before recorded history.
 
2013-08-26 05:09:12 PM

Occam's Nailfile: vudukungfu: No no no no.
Let the white man steward the land.
he knows so much better how to do this than the people that have survived on this land for thousands of years.
You take those slackers and park them on some hell hole of a nuclear testing ground and farking let them rot. They don't know what the fark they are doing. Let the white man steward the land. He is so much better at it.

OK, wait, let me try this...

No no no no.
Let the black man run Detroit.
You take those cracker corporatists and run them out of town on a rail.  They don't know what the fark they are doing.  Let the black man run Detroit.  He is so much better at it.

Now do you see how racist you sound?


Black people were living in Detroit for thousands of years?
 
2013-08-26 05:09:49 PM

HeadLever: abfalter: It is natural for a forest to periodically burn down.

It does not have to 'burn down'.  Many of the big tree forest (Doug Fir, Yellow Pine, Redwood) are pretty fire resistent so long as the fire is small and contained to the forest floor.  However, when you let fuels build up over the years without allowing perodic firest, prescribed burns, selective logging, etc. you end up with fires that are much hotter and will find ther way into the canopy, effectivly killing everything in its path.  Some can even burn so hot as to sterilize the forest floor, making regeneration much more difficult.


Some of those trees even require a fire to open their cones and reseed themselves.  I thought the Park Service learned this about 20 years ago with the big Yellowstone fires.  Fire's been around longer than man, or land management.
 
2013-08-26 05:10:29 PM

HeadLever: abfalter: It is natural for a forest to periodically burn down.

It does not have to 'burn down'.  Many of the big tree forest (Doug Fir, Yellow Pine, Redwood) are pretty fire resistent so long as the fire is small and contained to the forest floor.  However, when you let fuels build up over the years without allowing perodic firest, prescribed burns, selective logging, etc. you end up with fires that are much hotter and will find ther way into the canopy, effectivly killing everything in its path.  Some can even burn so hot as to sterilize the forest floor, making regeneration much more difficult.


LEt me guess, wealthy people have built holiday homes in the forests and have activly lobbied for the laws that built up the brushwood?
 
2013-08-26 05:10:58 PM
Can't we just grow new giant Sequoias?

/ "Sequoias" is the shortest word with all five vowels.
// It's not the spotted owl we worry about in the Sierras anymore, it is some stupid frog:  http://abclocal.go.com/kfsn/story?section=news/environment&id=9145456
// Also, brown man wasn't always a friend of nature:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_American_use_of_fire
 
2013-08-26 05:11:01 PM

Occam's Nailfile: vudukungfu: No no no no.
Let the white man steward the land.
he knows so much better how to do this than the people that have survived on this land for thousands of years.
You take those slackers and park them on some hell hole of a nuclear testing ground and farking let them rot. They don't know what the fark they are doing. Let the white man steward the land. He is so much better at it.

OK, wait, let me try this...

No no no no.
Let the black man run Detroit.
You take those cracker corporatists and run them out of town on a rail.  They don't know what the fark they are doing.  Let the black man run Detroit.  He is so much better at it.

Now do you see how racist you sound?


Racism against people of color: wage disparities, income disparities, sentencing and profile disparities, tangible negative effects.

"Racism" against white people: Occam's Nailfile's feelings are hurt.  Someone please get him a tissue.

This thread's topic isn't even about racism.  Good grief.
 
2013-08-26 05:12:09 PM
How many fires has General Sherman survived, before the modern-thinking man arrived?
 
2013-08-26 05:12:29 PM

Apik0r0s: That sound you hear is a million Republicans fapping to the idea of the Sequoias burning, shows them darned liberals for not letting them make picnic tables out of them in the first place.


Yeah, because you hear all the republicans in Idaho, Wyoming, Montana, Utah, Arizona excited about wildfire in thier state.

Forest Management is not really a hard issue to solve from a technical stanpoint, however, it is a nighmare from the political perspective.  You either need to reduce the fuels on human terms or let the wildfires run their course.

If you pick the first option, you have only 2 effective ways of doing this - prescribed burns or some type of logging.  Neither one is really attractive to the environmental/nimby community.  Aslo some fuel loads are high enough that prescribed burns are very risky.

If you pick the second option, you are going to see continued loss property and firefighters lives.
 
2013-08-26 05:12:55 PM

Occam's Nailfile: abfalter: I know that we want to preserve the park but our mandate should be to preserve nature from man and not preserve nature from itself.

It is natural for a forest to periodically burn down.

Unless a spotted owl lives nearby.  In which case, make a human shield around the flames.


Ummmm.....owls can fly.
 
2013-08-26 05:13:37 PM

Galloping Galoshes: Some of those trees even require a fire to open their cones and reseed themselves.


Lodgepole, yes.  However, even with that, when the firest are hot enough it can destroy their seeds as well.
 
2013-08-26 05:14:33 PM

FunkOut: Occam's Nailfile: vudukungfu: No no no no.
Let the white man steward the land.
he knows so much better how to do this than the people that have survived on this land for thousands of years.
You take those slackers and park them on some hell hole of a nuclear testing ground and farking let them rot. They don't know what the fark they are doing. Let the white man steward the land. He is so much better at it.

OK, wait, let me try this...

No no no no.
Let the black man run Detroit.
You take those cracker corporatists and run them out of town on a rail.  They don't know what the fark they are doing.  Let the black man run Detroit.  He is so much better at it.

Now do you see how racist you sound?

Black people were living in Detroit for thousands of years?


Yes Andrew Jackson moved them there.

(psst Occam the difference is one of those things actually happened).
 
2013-08-26 05:15:16 PM
Aurric: .... Occam's Nailfile's feelings are hurt.  Someone please get him a tissue.

This thread's topic isn't even about racism.  Good grief.


Everything's about race to a RACIST.
 
2013-08-26 05:18:06 PM

Norfolking Chance: LEt me guess, wealthy people have built holiday homes in the forests and have activly lobbied for the laws that built up the brushwood?


That is one aspect.  Another is that the public wants to see green forest, not black forest.  Add to the fact that many environmental organizations consider logging to be the debil's work and you end up with a logjam in forest management .

you are probably too young to remember the backlash that Reagan got for the let it burn policy in Yellowstone. In any case, this is not a new debate.
 
2013-08-26 05:18:56 PM

Dubya's_Coke_Dealer: Occam's Nailfile: abfalter: I know that we want to preserve the park but our mandate should be to preserve nature from man and not preserve nature from itself.

It is natural for a forest to periodically burn down.

Unless a spotted owl lives nearby.  In which case, make a human shield around the flames.

Ummmm.....owls can fly.


That, and another owl is out competing them anyways.

HeadLever: Apik0r0s: That sound you hear is a million Republicans fapping to the idea of the Sequoias burning, shows them darned liberals for not letting them make picnic tables out of them in the first place.

Yeah, because you hear all the republicans in Idaho, Wyoming, Montana, Utah, Arizona excited about wildfire in thier state.

Forest Management is not really a hard issue to solve from a technical stanpoint, however, it is a nighmare from the political perspective.  You either need to reduce the fuels on human terms or let the wildfires run their course.

If you pick the first option, you have only 2 effective ways of doing this - prescribed burns or some type of logging.  Neither one is really attractive to the environmental/nimby community.  Aslo some fuel loads are high enough that prescribed burns are very risky.

If you pick the second option, you are going to see continued loss property and firefighters lives.


A third option is go in, clear some of the fuel load and sell it to some of these cogen electrical generation  facilities that burn wood waste, then let smaller fires burn after that.

There are far too many nimbys that claim to be environmentalists just because it gives them a more legitimate leg to stand on besides "I don't want it to ruin my view".
 
2013-08-26 05:19:46 PM

Occam's Nailfile: vudukungfu: No no no no.
Let the white man steward the land.
he knows so much better how to do this than the people that have survived on this land for thousands of years.
You take those slackers and park them on some hell hole of a nuclear testing ground and farking let them rot. They don't know what the fark they are doing. Let the white man steward the land. He is so much better at it.

You sound brown.

And racist.


Brownies cannot be racist.  Morality is found in melanin.
 
2013-08-26 05:19:59 PM
I wonder if it's hot enough to turn that dirt to glass?  I saw on pbs a long time ago they let like 2 sq/mile forest just grow with out any controlled burns for a decade.  They started that bad boy up to see what would happen, it was so dense with heat it made a 3 inch thick plain of glass over the land.  Crazy stuff.
 
2013-08-26 05:20:49 PM
As far as I can tell, no Sequoias have been even damaged, much less destroyed by this fire.
 
2013-08-26 05:21:05 PM

vudukungfu: No no no no.
Let the white man steward the land.
he knows so much better how to do this than the people that have survived on this land for thousands of years.
You take those slackers and park them on some hell hole of a nuclear testing ground and farking let them rot. They don't know what the fark they are doing. Let the white man steward the land. He is so much better at it.


Well that's a logical fallacy...and racist, but whatever.
 
2013-08-26 05:22:01 PM

patrick767: debug: The raging flames also loomed over towering sequoias that are among the largest and oldest living things on the planet. The iconic trees can withstand fire...

What's the problem again?

Decades of putting out forest fires ASAP has led to many areas having a greater than normal density of undergrowth. In such conditions, a fire can become intense enough to burn out even larger sequoias. In more natural conditions, the forest fires are usually not intense enough to kill the giant trees.


Yeah, in a healthy forest, a wildfire (with no firefighters) will only take 1/3 of the trees. Plus, the heat germinates the pinecones for the next generation. Live pines don't burn in a fire -- they die when there's enough fuel that it boils them, then they die, then burn. The thing to do is just let them burn.

Bristlecone pines actually produce a resin in their needles that's highly flammable, so they can put fuel on the lesser trees beneath them for the next fire that comes through. The same trees have been burning the hell out of their competition for 1000s of years.
 
2013-08-26 05:23:17 PM
Hopefully the flash floods we have planned for tonight and tomorrow will help with the fire control.  But most likely, they will just start more lightning fires (like they started the last few).
 
2013-08-26 05:24:05 PM

meat0918: A third option is go in, clear some of the fuel load and sell it to some of these cogen electrical generation facilities that burn wood waste, then let smaller fires burn after that.


I would consider that a part of the logging selection.  Selective cutting to reduce fuel loads is a great way to help.  Around here, many folks use these small dead trees for firewood.  You can buy permits from the Forest Service for $5 a cord, up to 10 cord (if you get a commercial permit you can get much more than that).  You are really limited on where you can go (you can thank the environmentalist for that as well), but it does provide one way for fuel reduction in certain areas.
 
2013-08-26 05:25:08 PM

LeroyBourne: I wonder if it's hot enough to turn that dirt to glass?  I saw on pbs a long time ago they let like 2 sq/mile forest just grow with out any controlled burns for a decade.  They started that bad boy up to see what would happen, it was so dense with heat it made a 3 inch thick plain of glass over the land.  Crazy stuff.


Wood turns into glass??!!
 
2013-08-26 05:25:17 PM
You have to schedule proscribed burns in California. There are hearings to pick dates, places and times, all of which can be challenged. Then, if you do get a go-ahead, if the AQMD (Air quality management district) decrees the air is too dirty, the burn can't happen. And it can't happen the next day without going through the whole process again.

Wildfires, or course, don't care about the AQMD. That "No! Not today!" attitude is pointless when a fire starts.
 
2013-08-26 05:26:04 PM
Good the faster we run out of things, because of stupidity, the sooner we'll die off as a species, for the over all betterment of the planet and the universe as a whole.
 
2013-08-26 05:26:08 PM
I guess they didn't learn from Yellowstone National Park. That part of the park still hasn't grown all the way back yet and that was almost 20 years ago.
 
Displayed 50 of 164 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report