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(Washington Post)   Horsepocalypse is not the title of Syfy's latest movie, but what's about to happen in the western United States   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 184
    More: Scary, western United States, sciences  
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17482 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 Aug 2013 at 4:33 PM (45 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-08-26 08:22:41 PM
HeadLever:

Acutally, it is not that Goverment refuses to deal with it.  It is just that their hands are tied in many regards due to the incessant lawsuits by environmental groups.  How can you deal with this issue when you can't even round them up?

dead horses are pretty slow why round them up? Scanveger be all nom nom nom.


to those say that horse are native to the americas, technically this is true.

but
All native Equidae  are long since extinct and what we now have running around  is a naturalized mongrel.

As far as I know, nobody has tried  the Invasive species act angle yet.
Under that the Dept Int/ BLM can use that to cull. Burden would be on the objection.
 
2013-08-26 08:54:30 PM
Let's eat,Wilber.

Let's eat wilber

It's easy just loose the comma.


will not list the various "non food" animals I've eaten, it's a long list
 a youth spent in many different countries/cultures will teach you :
 If it's organic someone somewhere thinks it's tasty
it doesn't matter if it's animal  or vegetable cases in point,  the balut and the durian
 
2013-08-26 08:58:00 PM

dolphkhan: Ship them overseas as a gift to some Dothraki khal. Problem solved.


Holy shiat, I think you just solved the problem.

Gather up wild stallions, give them away to all the countries in the world for good will.

I think Putin would love a bunch of wild American stallions for his horse stock.
 
2013-08-26 09:05:35 PM
FTA: BLM has long struggled to bring the horse population down to the mandated level of 23,622.

I'm afraid to ask how they arrived at that precise number, but no doubt Congress spent months arguing about it.
 
2013-08-26 09:11:51 PM

gnosis301: gadian: You don't eat your work animals.

Wrong.


If you eat them, they can't work for you anymore.  I can't eat my horse if I had to use it as transportation or to pull a plow.  Same with ox.  Eat your sheep, no wool.  Eat your cow, no milk.  Societies evolved these taboos partly out of necessity because stupid people would eat their work animals.  It depends if you define horse as "work" or "food".

The dietary restricted animals cow / pig etc. evolved because it took too many resource to fatten the animal up and starving people needed the grain etc. more.  Solution? Outlaw consumption of the animal.
 
2013-08-26 09:29:55 PM

HeadLever: MechTard: Actually, it is mostly vet bills and paperwork

Don't forget the time and effort to break a horse for riding.  Those that do this for a living are very specialized and they don't do it for free.


Hence why a good trained horse costs anywhere between 5 and 7 thousand.  You can't even break a horse to the saddle until it's 3 unless you want to create a swayback nag.
 
2013-08-26 09:38:43 PM

hb0mb: The BLM is so farking incompetent. They easily could have solved the problem long ago by gelding stallions and giving mares birth control issuing 'horse tags' to thousands of hunters every fall, just as they (or whomever) issues deer and elk tags.  Instead they've dicked around for years cramming excess horses into tiny pens.


Fixed.
 
2013-08-26 09:48:05 PM

gadian: gnosis301: gadian: You don't eat your work animals.

Wrong.

If you eat them, they can't work for you anymore.  I can't eat my horse if I had to use it as transportation or to pull a plow.  Same with ox.  Eat your sheep, no wool.  Eat your cow, no milk.  Societies evolved these taboos partly out of necessity because stupid people would eat their work animals.  It depends if you define horse as "work" or "food".

The dietary restricted animals cow / pig etc. evolved because it took too many resource to fatten the animal up and starving people needed the grain etc. more.  Solution? Outlaw consumption of the animal.


You eat the working/wool/dairy/egg laying animals when they are old and worn out, and cannot do their work any longer. (or it's excess males in your flock, in which case you eat them when they are young and tender)  The old worn out ones make the bestest sausage and soup, as they are toughy and stringy, yet flavorful.  Grind it down or boil it, and no one will be the wiser about the age of the mutton.
 
2013-08-26 09:50:07 PM

Bonzo_1116: gadian: gnosis301: gadian: You don't eat your work animals.

Wrong.

If you eat them, they can't work for you anymore.  I can't eat my horse if I had to use it as transportation or to pull a plow.  Same with ox.  Eat your sheep, no wool.  Eat your cow, no milk.  Societies evolved these taboos partly out of necessity because stupid people would eat their work animals.  It depends if you define horse as "work" or "food".

The dietary restricted animals cow / pig etc. evolved because it took too many resource to fatten the animal up and starving people needed the grain etc. more.  Solution? Outlaw consumption of the animal.

You eat the working/wool/dairy/egg laying animals when they are old and worn out, and cannot do their work any longer. (or it's excess males in your flock, in which case you eat them when they are young and tender)  The old worn out ones make the bestest sausage and soup, as they are toughy and stringy, yet flavorful.  Grind it down or boil it, and no one will be the wiser about the age of the mutton.


At that point, the animal has gone from the work definition to food.  Like the barn cat too blind to catch anymore mice.
 
2013-08-26 09:51:04 PM

gadian: gnosis301: gadian: You don't eat your work animals.

Wrong.

If you eat them, they can't work for you anymore.  I can't eat my horse if I had to use it as transportation or to pull a plow.  Same with ox.  Eat your sheep, no wool.  Eat your cow, no milk.  Societies evolved these taboos partly out of necessity because stupid people would eat their work animals.  It depends if you define horse as "work" or "food".

The dietary restricted animals cow / pig etc. evolved because it took too many resource to fatten the animal up and starving people needed the grain etc. more.  Solution? Outlaw consumption of the animal.


My Dad always said that the reason why desert people abhorred pigs was because they are digging animals, not grazers. They could destroy the delicate desert oasis soil looking for roots and grubs.

/no clue how true it is
 
2013-08-26 09:55:58 PM
As an aficionado of shell cordovan, I hope horse slaughterhouses reopen across this great land and the current shell shortage ends swiftly.

/moar shoes
//and other excellent leather goods
 
2013-08-26 10:21:29 PM
Think ah'll jess wait fer the buzzfeed - "17 Words That Haven't  Had 'Pocalypse' Stapled On The End Them Yet" featured add.
 
2013-08-26 10:29:38 PM
www1.artflakes.com

Wild horses are majestic. Cows are kind of... ungainly. I guess it's a variant of the "Don't want to eat cute things" syndrome.
 
2013-08-26 10:56:52 PM

jvl: Nope. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cougar#Distribution_and_habitat


Actually that pretty much confirms my point.  From you link:

The cougar prefers regions with dense underbrush, but can live with little vegetation in open areas. Its preferred habitats include precipitous canyons, escarpments, rim rocks, and dense brush.

In other words they tend to prefer brushy areas.  Of course they can be found in the open grasslands and open deserts, however, cougar does not have great stamina and is not really much of a threat to horses in this setting.  They may get the drop in on a few, but it will be a pretty rare occurance.
 
2013-08-26 11:09:26 PM

Bonzo_1116: I do wonder if we went back to the proverbial "state of nature" with no people around to hem the wolves and cougars into the bush, if the wovles might creep back out onto the open plains to eat the tasty horses.


Yeah, I could see that happening.  However, since both are hunted in most areas of the intermountain west, they tend to stay close to cover.
 
2013-08-27 12:22:04 AM
This is a fabricated issue! To put it in perspective, we kill 4000 cows every hour in America.  The only reason these wild horses are seen as a threat to the environment is because of the heading culture mentality we are all indoctrinated into, in which might makes right. Grow up, factory farming kills 75 million animals a day in this country, and you think a population of less than 100,000 wild horses is somehow a threat, that is silly logic.  We shouldn't do anything, we should allow them to live their lives free, as nature intended, and start castrating some of the macho farkers on this thread.
 
2013-08-27 12:29:02 AM

roaneranger: bojon: This text is now purple: stuhayes2010: Horses are an invasive species. Pure n simple. Treat them like kutzoo.

Horses are native to North America.

There was a horse relative that was a native. 2 million years ago.

Maybe we should have elephants running loose. We used to have mammoths here too.


We have human mammoths now.
 
2013-08-27 12:33:54 AM

blender61: to those say that horse are native to the americas, technically this is true.

but
All native Equidae are long since extinct and what we now have running around is a naturalized mongrel.


Those native horses were also equus ferus. They aren't notably different from modern horses.
 
2013-08-27 12:42:13 AM
Interesting reading all the Comments from people who've never seen a wild horse, a wild herd nor who know anything about horses and the West.
 
2013-08-27 12:47:00 AM

gadian: gnosis301: gadian: You don't eat your work animals.

Wrong.

If you eat them, they can't work for you anymore.  I can't eat my horse if I had to use it as transportation or to pull a plow.  Same with ox.  Eat your sheep, no wool.  Eat your cow, no milk.  Societies evolved these taboos partly out of necessity because stupid people would eat their work animals.  It depends if you define horse as "work" or "food".

The dietary restricted animals cow / pig etc. evolved because it took too many resource to fatten the animal up and starving people needed the grain etc. more.  Solution? Outlaw consumption of the animal.


I dont know if it was as much the amount of grain needed to feed a cow as it was before refrigeration you would probably lose more than you'd eat.
 
2013-08-27 01:00:42 AM
t0.gstatic.com
Ahhhh crap! Someone mentioned horses. Gonna be a sh*t-ton of Pony pics headed this way soon. Better get in the bunker and close the door quick.
 
2013-08-27 01:18:37 AM

gweilo8888: The whole problem is easily dealt with, thanks to the Homeland Security Act. . Have them rounded up and shipped off to Guantanamo, where they can be melted down away from the public gaze.

Extraordinary rendering, if you will.


Niiice
 
2013-08-27 01:43:24 AM

Bonzo_1116: HeadLever: Bonzo_1116: And because humans got rid of almost all the wolves and mountain lions that maybe could have eaten them, there isn't any apex predator for them except ourselves.

Bzzt.  Wolves and cougars don't really inhabit the same land.  Wolve and cougar tend to stick to the forested and mountainous land,s while the horeses stick to the more open desert and grasslands.  Here in Idaho we have many of each and they rarely cross paths.

I do wonder if we went back to the proverbial "state of nature" with no people around to hem the wolves and cougars into the bush, if the wovles might creep back out onto the open plains to eat the tasty horses.  I'd speculate that whatever predators went after the large bison herds would likely be able to take down horses as well.  (although from a brief trip into wikipedia it appears that the arrival of humans from the old world plus the end of the last ice age got rid of the things like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Lion )

I guess until we're willing to import some lions or breed up some exceptionally large and bold wolves, humans are pretty much the only predators left.


Wolves love elk and a horse is about the same size without the antlers. There's no reason why they wouldn't hunt horses (and have in other situations).

 Wolves also hunt bison if they have to, and have been recorded hunting them regularly in Yellowstone for the packs that only have bison in their area as a primary food source. Historically, the wolves that hunted bison on the plains in the "Old West" were huge animals. Again, no reason to believe they wouldn't hunt horses.

 People are frustrating, I love horses as much as the next person. I'm personally, not going to eat them unless I'm starving. But at the same time, I don't let folks in India tell me I can't eat beef. If someone wants to eat horse, that's fine. Treat it humanely and kill it cleanly and don't cave to corporations telling you they need more horse meat and trying to get most of them killed off and sold. (That's actually the only thing I'm really concerned about regarding our wild horses...)

 Horses, like every other species, always produce more population than the local environment can handle, so you have only a few options.

 -Expand the environment indefinitely (can't be done).
 -Allow some to die. The choice of death depends on what you're most comfortable with.
     -Predation (humans, wolves cougars).
     -Starvation (when they run out of resources.)

 That's it. You're going to have to pick one. Or sit back, do nothing, and one will be picked for you (usually starvation).

/Gelding and birth control are unfortunately not practical due to the cost.
 
2013-08-27 01:48:19 AM

cuzsis: Bonzo_1116: HeadLever: Bonzo_1116: And because humans got rid of almost all the wolves and mountain lions that maybe could have eaten them, there isn't any apex predator for them except ourselves.

Bzzt.  Wolves and cougars don't really inhabit the same land.  Wolve and cougar tend to stick to the forested and mountainous land,s while the horeses stick to the more open desert and grasslands.  Here in Idaho we have many of each and they rarely cross paths.

I do wonder if we went back to the proverbial "state of nature" with no people around to hem the wolves and cougars into the bush, if the wovles might creep back out onto the open plains to eat the tasty horses.  I'd speculate that whatever predators went after the large bison herds would likely be able to take down horses as well.  (although from a brief trip into wikipedia it appears that the arrival of humans from the old world plus the end of the last ice age got rid of the things like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Lion )

I guess until we're willing to import some lions or breed up some exceptionally large and bold wolves, humans are pretty much the only predators left.

Wolves love elk and a horse is about the same size without the antlers. There's no reason why they wouldn't hunt horses (and have in other situations).

 Wolves also hunt bison if they have to, and have been recorded hunting them regularly in Yellowstone for the packs that only have bison in their area as a primary food source. Historically, the wolves that hunted bison on the plains in the "Old West" were huge animals. Again, no reason to believe they wouldn't hunt horses.

 People are frustrating, I love horses as much as the next person. I'm personally, not going to eat them unless I'm starving. But at the same time, I don't let folks in India tell me I can't eat beef. If someone wants to eat horse, that's fine. Treat it humanely and kill it cleanly and don't cave to corporations telling you they need more horse meat and trying to ...



 I stand corrected on the birth control bit...looks like my info was old. 

 That being said, there is also quite a bit of controversy over the actual number of wild horses currently roaming the country. This is concerning for a number of reasons, not the least of which is the fact that we manage to get fairly accurate numbers on every other major species without too much trouble (ie: Deer and elk for hunting number purposes). 

 So if there is controversy, there is something foul going on. Best thing to do is follow the money to see what's up. 

/I'm making no claims as to which side is correct. I'm just looking at the over all picture versus every other major animal population in the United States. Something is wrong.
 
2013-08-27 02:32:40 AM

cuzsis: cuzsis: Bonzo_1116: HeadLever: Bonzo_1116: And because humans got rid of almost all the wolves and mountain lions that maybe could have eaten them, there isn't any apex predator for them except ourselves.

Bzzt.  Wolves and cougars don't really inhabit the same land.  Wolve and cougar tend to stick to the forested and mountainous land,s while the horeses stick to the more open desert and grasslands.  Here in Idaho we have many of each and they rarely cross paths.

I do wonder if we went back to the proverbial "state of nature" with no people around to hem the wolves and cougars into the bush, if the wovles might creep back out onto the open plains to eat the tasty horses.  I'd speculate that whatever predators went after the large bison herds would likely be able to take down horses as well.  (although from a brief trip into wikipedia it appears that the arrival of humans from the old world plus the end of the last ice age got rid of the things like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Lion )

I guess until we're willing to import some lions or breed up some exceptionally large and bold wolves, humans are pretty much the only predators left.

Wolves love elk and a horse is about the same size without the antlers. There's no reason why they wouldn't hunt horses (and have in other situations).

 Wolves also hunt bison if they have to, and have been recorded hunting them regularly in Yellowstone for the packs that only have bison in their area as a primary food source. Historically, the wolves that hunted bison on the plains in the "Old West" were huge animals. Again, no reason to believe they wouldn't hunt horses.

 People are frustrating, I love horses as much as the next person. I'm personally, not going to eat them unless I'm starving. But at the same time, I don't let folks in India tell me I can't eat beef. If someone wants to eat horse, that's fine. Treat it humanely and kill it cleanly and don't cave to corporations telling you they need more horse meat and trying to ...


 I stand corrected on the birth control bit...looks like my info was old. 

 That being said, there is also quite a bit of controversy over the actual number of wild horses currently roaming the country. This is concerning for a number of reasons, not the least of which is the fact that we manage to get fairly accurate numbers on every other major species without too much trouble (ie: Deer and elk for hunting number purposes). 

 So if there is controversy, there is something foul going on. Best thing to do is follow the money to see what's up. 

/I'm making no claims as to which side is correct. I'm just looking at the over all picture versus every other major animal population in the United States. Something is wrong.


Well when they are doing like a helecopter survey to count how many deer/elk are in an area all of them are wild. Horses can be hard to distinguish from a chopper if you are in like ranch country and not in a nature preserve of somekind.
 
2013-08-27 03:22:25 AM

Kahabut: Headso: Kahabut: It kinda makes you wonder why a horse costs so farking much to buy.  I guess it's like puppies you get from a breeder.  Pure greed.

you can get a horse for free pretty easy but it will probably not be good for riding, that's when they start costing money.

Actually, I knew that.  My aunt has several rescue horses.  I helped rehabilitate a couple of them.  Have a few scars to prove it.

/some of those farkers still had teeth.


My folks adopted a mustang, a lot of work and you have to know what your doing, but she turned into a fantastic riding horse, tough as nails but gentle as can be. Anyone could ride her, little kids, cute girls from the city who never ride. she was bulletproof. great horse.
and for you crazy whacked in the head nuts... why would you eat horse unless you were starving?
 
2013-08-27 03:40:39 AM

LikeALeafOnTheWind: and for you crazy whacked in the head nuts... why would you eat horse unless you were starving?


Because they're tasty? I want a good horse steak. It's a shame you can't get them in the US.
 
2013-08-27 04:04:38 AM

MBooda: They couldn't drag me away.

/we'll ride them, someday


I see what you did there.

eil.com
 
2013-08-27 06:37:44 AM

This text is now purple: blender61: to those say that horse are native to the americas, technically this is true.

but
All native Equidae are long since extinct and what we now have running around is a naturalized mongrel.

Those native horses were also equus ferus. They aren't notably different from modern horses.



Did a bit of digging because I was going off of memory and my info is dated.

 It gets rather complicated rather quickly.
It boils down to who you ask and by what standard and definition you use.
It was agreed that wild horse (equus ferus) went extinct in North America at the end of the Pleistocene.
Whether or not the current wild horse (equus ferus  caballus) is native or introduced is up for debate.
It degenerates to the point of quibbling over the definitions of feral and wild.

the quick read of the Mustang Wiki was interesting.

more than I ever wanted to know about horses, wild, feral,domestic or undifferentiated other.
 
2013-08-27 07:41:42 AM

TuteTibiImperes: naughtyrev: If people in this country would just get over their "but I wanted a pony when I was a kid!" attitude and start eating horse, this wouldn't be a problem.

This. Horse meat is supposedly very tasty. The French eat it, and I think that their judgement should be trusted in all matters culinary.


Counter Point: escargo
 
2013-08-27 08:39:40 AM

naughtyrev: If people in this country would just get over their "but I wanted a pony when I was a kid!" attitude and start eating horse, this wouldn't be a problem.


McDonalds has been working to change this attitude for some years now.

/probably been said already
//too lazy to RTF entire thread
 
2013-08-27 09:45:43 AM
i1.ytimg.com
/Young Bono asks the important question about what to do with all those Wild Horses.
 
2013-08-27 10:14:29 AM
1. We have horses
2. other countries eat horses
3. PROFIT!
 
2013-08-27 03:01:39 PM

spidermilk: Breeders that produce quality animal get high prices ($5000 for dogs, $10,000 PLUS for horses) get that much money for a few reasons:


I guess it depends on what you consider 'quality'.  My parents bred our family pet dogs a bit, produced a few litters of quality house pet type dogs.  We're talking puppies in a playpen located in the living room level breeding.  Cindy, the mother, was a pup from champion lines(IE not only showed, but won shows).  Completely natural births, and she even house-trained them. 
We weren't selling dogs for no $5k.  Heck, Cindy wasn't even $5k.

$5k would be for beyond just 'quality' and into special purpose - showing or serious work.

blender61: Whether or not the current wild horse (equus ferus caballus) is native or introduced is up for debate.


The argument is that the Native Americans would have been riding horses if they had access to them.  All evidence is that the wild horse population is basically 100% feral descendants of horses brought over from Europe and such and released/escaped into the wild.
 
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