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(Network World)   Old electronics don't die, they pile up and up and up and up   (networkworld.com) divider line 51
    More: Sad, e-waste, electronics  
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3550 clicks; posted to Geek » on 26 Aug 2013 at 1:30 PM (48 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-08-26 01:33:34 PM
Cheaper to buy a new one than to fix, simple as that. You're not gonna pay a tech 50+/hr plus parts to repair a monitor that's worth $20 at Goodwill, and you can buy one that's twice the size, easier on the eyes, and uses less energy for $200 or less (usually much less).

Same reason TV repair places went out of business. From what I've read there are plenty of companies willing to "recycle" all this stuff to places like China where they extract the metals out of the boards at the cost of environmental havoc.

I remember seeing a 60 minutes type show on this, does anyone else recall this?
 
2013-08-26 01:34:10 PM
So do slideshows right?

Thank goodness for less waste
 
2013-08-26 01:39:02 PM
I always knew that /dev/null was a lie.
 
2013-08-26 01:39:40 PM

oh_please: Cheaper to buy a new one than to fix, simple as that. You're not gonna pay a tech 50+/hr plus parts to repair a monitor that's worth $20 at Goodwill, and you can buy one that's twice the size, easier on the eyes, and uses less energy for $200 or less (usually much less).


Spend, don't mend!

/Where's my soma?!
 
2013-08-26 01:42:57 PM
oh_please:
Same reason TV repair places went out of business. From what I've read there are plenty of companies willing to "recycle" all this stuff to places like China where they extract the metals out of the boards at the cost of environmental havoc.

At some point it'll be a real battle between the cost of his labour:
sitemaker.umich.edu

and hers:
media.treehugger.com

With that in mind, here's a link I learned about on CBC the other day.

http://www.ifixit.com/ or, real "techies" don't replace their gear just because it's a little broken or not as cool anymore.
 
2013-08-26 01:43:40 PM
There is no silicon heaven
 
2013-08-26 01:48:19 PM
http://www.futurestates.tv/episodes/digital-antiquities

We will bury our electronics, and in the future, dig them up to repair old devices to recover data for people from obsolete hardware.
 
2013-08-26 01:49:45 PM
Give a couple of meth-heads a screwdriver and tell them there's copper inside the giant pile of computers.
 
2013-08-26 01:50:45 PM
I save all of my old electronics in order to have backups.

I have at least two of just about everything.

Some call me an electronics hoarder. I call myself paranoid. Paranoid that my computer will die and I'll have to go weeks before I can afford a new one.  Thus, I keep an older machine around at all times.

If this Windows Seven badboy dies, then at least I can resort to my Windows Vista beast for a while.
 
2013-08-26 01:53:22 PM

born_yesterday: Spend, don't mend!


I hate that mentality as well, but it doesn't make financial sense for the average person who has neither the tools nor the training to do the job themselves. Electronics like printers and monitors are throw-aways, unless you like to take things apart and screw around with them on your own time.

Important note: Don't give your nephew who's "good with electronic stuff" your old CRT monitor to take apart...just sayin'.
 
2013-08-26 01:58:26 PM
I thought "electronic waste" was a musical genre.
 
2013-08-26 01:58:44 PM
oh_please:
I hate that mentality as well, but it doesn't make financial sense for the average person who has neither the tools nor the training to do the job themselves. Electronics like printers and monitors are throw-aways, unless you like to take things apart and screw around with them on your own time.

And add in some manufacturers who do everything they can to make their devices non-repairable, short of making them melt down if you open the case.  In this day and age, knowing what we know about scarcity and sustainability, making a computer that's engineered to not outlive its own battery is just plain immoral.

cdn.dice.com
 
2013-08-26 02:05:17 PM

No Such Agency: And add in some manufacturers who do everything they can to make their devices non-repairable, short of making them melt down if you open the case.  In this day and age, knowing what we know about scarcity and sustainability, making a computer that's engineered to not outlive its own battery is just plain immoral.


Totally agree.
 
2013-08-26 02:05:34 PM
Great, 3D printing will solve all these problems and more.

Set your phasers to "awesome" cuz the future is now!

/Note heavy sarcasm as I know full well how crap is really made and where it ends up
 
2013-08-26 02:05:48 PM
Looks like my basement.

/fixer
 
2013-08-26 02:07:14 PM

oh_please: Important note: Don't give your nephew who's "good with electronic stuff" your old CRT monitor to take apart...just sayin'.


Finding out what a flyback transformer is by touching a charged one is a pivotal point in every electrical engineers education.

If it doesn't kill them.

/ALWAYS give your nephew that old CRT.
 
2013-08-26 02:13:32 PM
Apply an export tax on all electronic garbage that leaves the US.  The tax should either be high enough to ruin the economic viability of the trade or the tax rate should be set at a point that is high enough to offset any potential negative outcomes of the trade.

Anything short of that means we don't really collectively care enough yet...
Anything more is overreaching - ... or exactly what needs to be done to help mitigate some of the negative effects of global temperature rise but the solutions are politically untennable...
 
2013-08-26 02:13:42 PM
I rebuilt the power supply for a plasma TV last month. The TV worked amazingly well... for about 50 minutes before something else failed.  So yeah.  Recycled.
 
2013-08-26 02:27:48 PM
It is estimated that as much as 60 million tons of e-waste could end up as landfill.

Oh my god, that is terrible.  That is almost 5% of the weight of one tiny mountain or large hill (1000 meters height).  How can we do this to our planet?

/yes, heavy metals leaching into groundwater is bad, and RoHS and recycling of electronics is good. I just hate it when "big" numbers are thrown out sans context and volumes or weights of landfill are used as arguments for something being bad environmentally.
 
2013-08-26 02:28:46 PM
That first line above is a quote from the article.  Frickin' preview...
 
2013-08-26 02:32:26 PM
www.8-bitcentral.com
 
2013-08-26 02:33:51 PM
No Such Agency:
http://www.ifixit.com/ or, real "techies" don't replace their gear just because it's a little broken or not as cool anymore.

See you have it all wrong real "techies" do replace their gear because it's a little broken because that's the excuse we use to justify the new purchase.
 
2013-08-26 02:39:59 PM

Quantum Apostrophe: Great, 3D printing will solve all these problems and more.

Set your phasers to "awesome" cuz the future is now!

/Note heavy sarcasm as I know full well how crap is really made and where it ends up


*pats QA on the head*
 
2013-08-26 02:44:40 PM
And here I've been thinking all these years about the 20th century ending up as no more than an inch of cigarette butts. Now it looks future archaeologists will have to sort through six inches of mobos, batteries, and Monster cables before getting to the good stuff.
 
2013-08-26 02:49:03 PM

Treygreen13: Give a couple of meth-heads a screwdriver and tell them there's copper inside the giant pile of computers.


A former company I worked for was paying for a warehouse.  They were storing whatever they didn't want to throw away.  We (my boss and I) finally convinced the owner to get rid of this unneeded expense ($2000 monthly).  We rented a large industrial dumpster and had it dropped off by the loading/unloading door.  We had about a dozen or so old CRT's which we throw over the wall of this dumpster along with a lot of metal shelving and various other types of garbage.

After several hours of chucking crap into this dumpster we called it a day.  When we arrived the next morning the dumpster door was open.  We looked inside and everything had been separated into piles.  The CRT's had been opened and separated into parts including the broken glass swept into a pile.  The metal shelves were torn apart and the metal was gone.

My boss and I looked at each other with puzzled looks on our faces.  We couldn't figure out what had happened since leaving the warehouse.  We didn't really care since there wasn't a mess to clean up.  We proceed to start throwing more crap into the dumpster.

Then an 80's model beat to hell Ford Ranger parked behind the dumpster and some crack or meth addict climbed in and started ripping crap apart.  Apparently he was the reason for what occurred the prior day.  He pulled all the scrap metal out of everything he could and cleaned up his mess.  He asked us if it was ok to keep going.  We didn't care as he wasn't making a mess and we were simply throwing it away.

It was probably 100 degrees outside and we kept throwing crap over the wall and into the dumpster.  Dumpster Dave kept pulling whatever metals he could find out of our junk and putting it into the Ford truck.  He was working his butt off for every scrap of metal he could find.

I finally asked him how much he made from last nights haul.  He made $40, put $5 in gas, bought a pack of cigarettes and split the rest with his addict friend (apparently he had a teammate in scrap metal).  His take was probably $15 for a good 4 to 5 hours of work.  It was awful watching this guy work so damn hard for such little pay.  I kept thinking he probably spent most if not all of that $15 on drugs and may not have eaten all day.  I guess it was better than stealing for his addiction.
 
2013-08-26 02:53:12 PM

garlandsteve: Treygreen13: Give a couple of meth-heads a screwdriver and tell them there's copper inside the giant pile of computers.

A former company I worked for was paying for a warehouse.  They were storing whatever they didn't want to throw away.  We (my boss and I) finally convinced the owner to get rid of this unneeded expense ($2000 monthly).  We rented a large industrial dumpster and had it dropped off by the loading/unloading door.  We had about a dozen or so old CRT's which we throw over the wall of this dumpster along with a lot of metal shelving and various other types of garbage.

After several hours of chucking crap into this dumpster we called it a day.  When we arrived the next morning the dumpster door was open.  We looked inside and everything had been separated into piles.  The CRT's had been opened and separated into parts including the broken glass swept into a pile.  The metal shelves were torn apart and the metal was gone.

My boss and I looked at each other with puzzled looks on our faces.  We couldn't figure out what had happened since leaving the warehouse.  We didn't really care since there wasn't a mess to clean up.  We proceed to start throwing more crap into the dumpster.

Then an 80's model beat to hell Ford Ranger parked behind the dumpster and some crack or meth addict climbed in and started ripping crap apart.  Apparently he was the reason for what occurred the prior day.  He pulled all the scrap metal out of everything he could and cleaned up his mess.  He asked us if it was ok to keep going.  We didn't care as he wasn't making a mess and we were simply throwing it away.

It was probably 100 degrees outside and we kept throwing crap over the wall and into the dumpster.  Dumpster Dave kept pulling whatever metals he could find out of our junk and putting it into the Ford truck.  He was working his butt off for every scrap of metal he could find.

I finally asked him how much he made from last nights haul.  He made $40, put $5 in gas, bought a p ...


In this area, you can put any electronics on the corner in nearly any condition and a latino guy in a truck will come pick it up within 10 minutes. Not sure if they have spotters or if they just drive by and see it, but it's incredible. They make stuff disappear. I put a monitor out once that was so badly damaged that it looked like a Picasso and I didn't even get back inside before a little guy drove up and put it in his truck bed.
 
2013-08-26 02:55:22 PM
I see a lot of scrapers and wonder why they do it for almost no reward.  I see them driving all over town loading up metal and they can't possible clear more than $30 a day.  Too much work for such little payoff.  I just took a bunch of wire I had laying around the house and the rate for wire went down, it used to be $1 a pound now it's down to 0.80 a pound.
 
2013-08-26 02:58:15 PM
Same here..

I've put stuff out on the curb for the city to haul off.  Fred and Lamont Sanford are in their 70's pickup truck hauling it off before I can get the front door open.  It's mind boggling how fast those guys can grab that crap.
 
2013-08-26 03:02:26 PM
TNel:
No Such Agency:
http://www.ifixit.com/ or, real "techies" don't replace their gear just because it's a little broken or not as cool anymore.

See you have it all wrong real "techies" do replace their gear because it's a little broken because that's the excuse we use to justify the new purchase.


Without engaging in a pissing contest, my suggestion is that's not a very "techy" thing to do.  It seems like an attempt to cultivate the image of being "techy", without thinking about what that actually means.
 
2013-08-26 03:06:53 PM

garlandsteve: Treygreen13: Give a couple of meth-heads a screwdriver and tell them there's copper inside the giant pile of computers.

A former company I worked for was paying for a warehouse.  They were storing whatever they didn't want to throw away.  We (my boss and I) finally convinced the owner to get rid of this unneeded expense ($2000 monthly).  We rented a large industrial dumpster and had it dropped off by the loading/unloading door.  We had about a dozen or so old CRT's which we throw over the wall of this dumpster along with a lot of metal shelving and various other types of garbage.

After several hours of chucking crap into this dumpster we called it a day.  When we arrived the next morning the dumpster door was open.  We looked inside and everything had been separated into piles.  The CRT's had been opened and separated into parts including the broken glass swept into a pile.  The metal shelves were torn apart and the metal was gone.

My boss and I looked at each other with puzzled looks on our faces.  We couldn't figure out what had happened since leaving the warehouse.  We didn't really care since there wasn't a mess to clean up.  We proceed to start throwing more crap into the dumpster.

Then an 80's model beat to hell Ford Ranger parked behind the dumpster and some crack or meth addict climbed in and started ripping crap apart.  Apparently he was the reason for what occurred the prior day.  He pulled all the scrap metal out of everything he could and cleaned up his mess.  He asked us if it was ok to keep going.  We didn't care as he wasn't making a mess and we were simply throwing it away.

It was probably 100 degrees outside and we kept throwing crap over the wall and into the dumpster.  Dumpster Dave kept pulling whatever metals he could find out of our junk and putting it into the Ford truck.  He was working his butt off for every scrap of metal he could find.

I finally asked him how much he made from last nights haul.  He made $40, put $5 in gas, bought a p ...


but this perfectly describes the dumps in india. cheap labor sifts through the trash and extracts all value.
we will always have cheap labor. there will always be trash.

I have always thought that welfare should directly feed the trash/recycling process.
You want your welfare check? no problem, 8 hours a day sort trash.
Child care? no problem, bring your crotch spawn to work and they will sit in the daycare section.

/yes I know, it isnt PC to make people work for their checks
 
2013-08-26 03:08:42 PM

garlandsteve: Same here..

I've put stuff out on the curb for the city to haul off.  Fred and Lamont Sanford are in their 70's pickup truck hauling it off before I can get the front door open.  It's mind boggling how fast those guys can grab that crap.


I really wish that my condo building did a better job at this.
We need a scrap day of the week, where we put out trash like this in the AM.
Anything that is left by 5pm could get tossed in the dumpster.

Hell, I have two old JVC speakers which I am going to chuck and feel bad about it.
Free-cycle is jsut too much a pain in my ass, time-wise.
 
2013-08-26 03:14:16 PM

No Such Agency: TNel:
No Such Agency:
http://www.ifixit.com/ or, real "techies" don't replace their gear just because it's a little broken or not as cool anymore.

See you have it all wrong real "techies" do replace their gear because it's a little broken because that's the excuse we use to justify the new purchase.

Without engaging in a pissing contest, my suggestion is that's not a very "techy" thing to do.  It seems like an attempt to cultivate the image of being "techy", without thinking about what that actually means.


But how else can I justify buying a new video card other than my previous ones fan is starting to make noise I know what you mean by techy as in ripping them apart and all but most items now a days are disposable.
 
2013-08-26 03:15:28 PM

namatad: but this perfectly describes the dumps in india. cheap labor sifts through the trash and extracts all value.
we will always have cheap labor. there will always be trash.

I have always thought that welfare should directly feed the trash/recycling process.
You want your welfare check? no problem, 8 hours a day sort trash.
Child care? no problem, bring your crotch spawn to work and they will sit in the daycare section.

/yes I know, it isnt PC to make people work for their checks


YES!! Let's bring back slave labor!
 
2013-08-26 03:24:37 PM
Aren't we on the verge of running out of all the exotic metals that go into that stuff?  If so, this is a problem that will solve itself.

(Disclaimer:  The solution may or may not involve six billion people freezing to death when Tina Turner cuts off their methane supply.)
 
2013-08-26 03:48:13 PM

oh_please: born_yesterday: Spend, don't mend!

I hate that mentality as well, but it doesn't make financial sense for the average person who has neither the tools nor the training to do the job themselves. Electronics like printers and monitors are throw-aways, unless you like to take things apart and screw around with them on your own time.

Important note: Don't give your nephew who's "good with electronic stuff" your old CRT monitor to take apart...just sayin'.


I'm guessing "how to discharge a CRT monitor safely" wasn't on his youtube watchlist.

BTW- I see that most of these pictures include stacks and stacks of TVs and computer CRT monitors- once the transition to non-CRT is complete, the waste stream will get decidedly lighter.
 
2013-08-26 03:49:50 PM
It's not always because a device is broken or even old that it's replaced. Worked for a company a couple of years ago that decided that they were upgrading everyone to new dual 22" monitors. Didn't matter that some people had nearly new monitors or that they were happy with what they had. Everyone was getting the exact same set up.

Here's the back of the cargo van we filled with all the monitors that were removed. Every single one worked and was in relatively good to excellent condition, less than 2 or 3 years old at the time and not a single one was a CRT monitor. I asked what was going to become of them and they said they were going to be scrapped.

i521.photobucket.com
There were a couple of 24" in there. Most were 19-22" already. But they wanted all new ones. More than 200 monitors I believe. The kicker? Some of the ones we removed were the exact same model as the one that replaced it, possibly only a few months older.
 
2013-08-26 03:50:59 PM

ausfahrk: Aren't we on the verge of running out of all the exotic metals that go into that stuff?  If so, this is a problem that will solve itself.

(Disclaimer:  The solution may or may not involve six billion people freezing to death when Tina Turner cuts off their methane supply.)


It's almost always just a matter of it becoming harder to mine the exotic metals, making the price higher.

It wouldn't be THAT hard to reclaim a lot of it really, if we tried. We already recycle like 99% of the lead we use in batteries and whatnot.
 
2013-08-26 03:52:22 PM

unyon: the waste stream will get decidedly lighter.


And decidedly more full of mercury.
 
M-G
2013-08-26 03:54:05 PM
I didn't see much piling up in TFA.  Just lots of recycling facilities where things were being sorted for dismantling and reclamation.
 
2013-08-26 04:11:44 PM

logieal: It's not always because a device is broken or even old that it's replaced. Worked for a company a couple of years ago that decided that they were upgrading everyone to new dual 22" monitors. Didn't matter that some people had nearly new monitors or that they were happy with what they had. Everyone was getting the exact same set up.

Here's the back of the cargo van we filled with all the monitors that were removed. Every single one worked and was in relatively good to excellent condition, less than 2 or 3 years old at the time and not a single one was a CRT monitor. I asked what was going to become of them and they said they were going to be scrapped.

[640x360 from http://i521.photobucket.com/albums/w336/logieal/20100725_001.jpg image 640x360]
There were a couple of 24" in there. Most were 19-22" already. But they wanted all new ones. More than 200 monitors I believe. The kicker? Some of the ones we removed were the exact same model as the one that replaced it, possibly only a few months older.


That company was dumb as dogshiat, they could have gotten  AT LEAST 30 for the 19"s, 50 for the 22"s, and 75-100 for the 24"s, without even trying, assuming they were in working order.
 
2013-08-26 04:16:12 PM

TNel: namatad: but this perfectly describes the dumps in india. cheap labor sifts through the trash and extracts all value.
we will always have cheap labor. there will always be trash.

I have always thought that welfare should directly feed the trash/recycling process.
You want your welfare check? no problem, 8 hours a day sort trash.
Child care? no problem, bring your crotch spawn to work and they will sit in the daycare section.

/yes I know, it isnt PC to make people work for their checks

YES!! Let's bring back slave labor!


Not so much slave labor, but he has a point. Hear me out.

Despite welfare and other safety nets, there are always people that can't find a job for some reason who want to work. Maybe they have a drug history, maybe they went to one of America's many for-profit prisons, maybe they are a touch intellectually disabled.

Here, we have several businesses that are set up to employ the intellectually disabled. It's all menial work, mostly sorting of small things and labor-intensive things that don't fetch enough cash on the market to warrant paying a heavier price to employ someone. Problem is, there's a space between that work and more financially useful work, in a sense. This fills that space- they can have a job to be able to care for themselves, and work gets done.

Why wouldn't this be a valid idea as a work program? I know the current fad is to decry anything from the government as socialism, but it seems like it would work. Homeless? Come work the recycling program and get some cash to start getting back on your feet. Physically disabled from injury or illness? This provides a way for them to be able to help make their own way- something many want. The people involved get their money to live on, the work gets done, valuable resources get reclaimed, it's a win-win.

Is it fulfilling work? No. It needs done, though, and there are people who would be willing to do it.
 
2013-08-26 04:28:48 PM

Sword and Shield: Is it fulfilling work? No. It needs done, though, and there are people who would be willing to do it.


Man, we've been through this argument on FARK a zillion times, and there's always the brigade that says, "IT'S DEMEANING!"

Bullshiat. When is meaningful work that helps your community AND you get paid for "demeaning"?
 
2013-08-26 04:29:05 PM

M-G: I didn't see much piling up in TFA.  Just lots of recycling facilities where things were being sorted for dismantling and reclamation.


except for the pic near the end of Manila, the pictures were usually sanitized.

try these:

www.shopjimmy.com

essynam.files.wordpress.com

www.lifelounge.com.au

b.vimeocdn.com

static-secure.guim.co.uk
 
2013-08-26 04:36:31 PM

oh_please: That company was dumb as dogshiat, they could have gotten AT LEAST 30 for the 19"s, 50 for the 22"s, and 75-100 for the 24"s, without even trying, assuming they were in working order.


Yep. I agree. I wanted at least one of them, and offered to buy but was told no, they have to be destroyed because they have a contract with some recycling company. And every one of them was working, or at least 99.8% were. There might have been one that wasn't, but they were all pulled directly off of user's desks.

And this was just one office. They were doing this in dozens of offices. It's a very big company. Glad I don't work for them anymore.
 
2013-08-26 04:47:06 PM

doczoidberg: I save all of my old electronics in order to have backups.

I have at least two of just about everything.

Some call me an electronics hoarder. I call myself paranoid. Paranoid that my computer will die and I'll have to go weeks before I can afford a new one.  Thus, I keep an older machine around at all times.

If this Windows Seven badboy dies, then at least I can resort to my Windows Vista beast for a while.




Hello, my name is StoPPeRmobile and I am an old electronics hoarder.

/Always using old stuff
 
2013-08-26 05:25:21 PM
fandomania.com

Find the shiny!
 
2013-08-26 05:47:10 PM
It's all at my buddy John's house. He's going to get around to fixing it all one day, really.
 
2013-08-26 05:49:09 PM
StoPPeRmobile:
Hello, my name is StoPPeRmobile and I am an old electronics hoarder.

/Always using old stuff


Define 'old':  I watched 9/11 happen on a circa 1957 Setchell-Carlson portable TV set.  Still have the set.  Yes, it still works.

I have a '53 Bendix console that I recapped, I use it to watch NASCAR on the weekends sometimes.  Oh, yes, and I have zero-time new-old-stock 21EP4 in it.

/Current project is a '64 Zenith color - needs the final color alignment done.
//Put a sheet of X-ray film behind you, sit in front of the set for an hour - free chest X-ray!
 
2013-08-26 05:50:35 PM

garlandsteve: Treygreen13: Give a couple of meth-heads a screwdriver and tell them there's copper inside the giant pile of computers.

A former company I worked for was paying for a warehouse.  They were storing whatever they didn't want to throw away.  We (my boss and I) finally convinced the owner to get rid of this unneeded expense ($2000 monthly).  We rented a large industrial dumpster and had it dropped off by the loading/unloading door.  We had about a dozen or so old CRT's which we throw over the wall of this dumpster along with a lot of metal shelving and various other types of garbage.

After several hours of chucking crap into this dumpster we called it a day.  When we arrived the next morning the dumpster door was open.  We looked inside and everything had been separated into piles.  The CRT's had been opened and separated into parts including the broken glass swept into a pile.  The metal shelves were torn apart and the metal was gone.

My boss and I looked at each other with puzzled looks on our faces.  We couldn't figure out what had happened since leaving the warehouse.  We didn't really care since there wasn't a mess to clean up.  We proceed to start throwing more crap into the dumpster.

Then an 80's model beat to hell Ford Ranger parked behind the dumpster and some crack or meth addict climbed in and started ripping crap apart.  Apparently he was the reason for what occurred the prior day.  He pulled all the scrap metal out of everything he could and cleaned up his mess.  He asked us if it was ok to keep going.  We didn't care as he wasn't making a mess and we were simply throwing it away.

It was probably 100 degrees outside and we kept throwing crap over the wall and into the dumpster.  Dumpster Dave kept pulling whatever metals he could find out of our junk and putting it into the Ford truck.  He was working his butt off for every scrap of metal he could find.

I finally asked him how much he made from last nights haul.  He made $40, put $5 in gas, bought a p ...


If you have a record, especially a felony, that's about as good as it gets. You can't even get a job washing dishes.

Unless you have enough money to run for office.
 
2013-08-26 09:32:19 PM
I thought they went to Silicon Heaven
static.giantbomb.com
 
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