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(Guardian)   Brave people armed with empathy and compassion are the NRA's biggest nightmare   (theguardian.com) divider line 234
    More: Followup, psychiatric medication, LGBT, empathy, compassion, gay equality, nightmares, Archbishop Desmond Tutu  
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3769 clicks; posted to Politics » on 26 Aug 2013 at 11:17 AM (33 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-08-26 10:02:37 AM
Brave people armed with empathy and compassion  are all dead.
 
2013-08-26 10:13:32 AM
What she did was amazing and laudable.  She could just as easily have been victim #1.  The guy had mental problems and wasn't taking his prescribed medication.
 
2013-08-26 10:17:42 AM

syrynxx: What she did was amazing and laudable.  She could just as easily have been victim #1.  The guy had mental problems and wasn't taking his prescribed medication.


Most definitely.  A lot of that is admittedly luck, but she kept a cool head and managed to diffuse the situation.  It's fortunate that the man didn't cause any real damage, and I hope he gets the help he obviously needs.
 
2013-08-26 10:40:39 AM
For her generosity of spirit, capacity to humanise the potential shooter and ability to identify with him through her own vulnerabilities do tell us a great deal about what is lacking in our politics.

I hadn't even heard of this incident until now. This woman is unbelievably heroic and should be a role model and an example for all of us, but because she succeeded she is practically invisible.
Had she failed or not been there, the name of the would-be shooter would've been stuck in the news cycle for months.

We are one sick culture destined to spawn an endless chain of these psychos as long as we act to venerate them in that way
 
2013-08-26 10:46:20 AM

gilgigamesh: For her generosity of spirit, capacity to humanise the potential shooter and ability to identify with him through her own vulnerabilities do tell us a great deal about what is lacking in our politics.

I hadn't even heard of this incident until now. This woman is unbelievably heroic and should be a role model and an example for all of us, but because she succeeded she is practically invisible.
Had she failed or not been there, the name of the would-be shooter would've been stuck in the news cycle for months.

We are one sick culture destined to spawn an endless chain of these psychos as long as we act to venerate them in that way


Yeah I gotta be honest I have my ear to the news but I never heard of this situation.
 
2013-08-26 10:49:03 AM

Deep Contact: Brave people armed with empathy and compassion  are all dead.


Not in this case, but she was damn lucky.
 
2013-08-26 10:54:48 AM
gilgigamesh:
We are one sick culture destined to spawn an endless chain of these psychos as long as we act to venerate them in that way

It sells the copy.  What's worse, in my opinion, is that people like this (the would be shooter) exist.  Mental health is nowhere NEAR properly addressed in this country, and it's about time we start taking it seriously.
 
2013-08-26 11:15:11 AM
How exactly is she the NRA's biggest nightmare? I don't think anybody, pro or anti gun, has anything but respect and reverence for her actions.
The NRA's worst nightmare are people like the would-be mass shooter, the same type of people the gun control lobby prays for and thrives on. The more bloody shirts for them to wave around, the more tragedies to exploit, the better.
 
2013-08-26 11:17:49 AM
Just realized what happened.
10/10 for getting that comment; I won't be coming back.
 
2013-08-26 11:19:25 AM
A compassionate society is a polite society.

No, wait.
 
2013-08-26 11:22:02 AM
I got the impression that the newsies were disappointed this story didn't end in blood. I hope I'm wrong about that.
 
2013-08-26 11:22:38 AM
Rarely do I shed a tear because of a linked FARK article.  This was one of those times.

/ it's not dusty, you pussies.
 
2013-08-26 11:26:17 AM

MREbomber: The NRA's worst nightmare are people like the would-be mass shooter


Not really.  Their worst nightmare are the patriot tards who threaten to shoot you if you disagree with their gun fetish.
 
2013-08-26 11:27:04 AM
The NRA wants to protect the Constitutional right to keep and bear arms. It does not have a position on empathy and compassion, though I imagine if it did, the position would encourage it.

Why do libs have to lie about conservatives?
 
2013-08-26 11:27:32 AM
The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.

Unless all you have is "good" guys with guns, and then it's an indiscriminate clusterfark of a firefight. (Though, I guess random chance might "stop" the shooter.)
Unless an unarmed bystander tackles the shooter in a moment of inattention.
Unless the shooter kills himself. (In that case, is the shooter then both "good" and "bad" guy?)
Unless someone braver than most of humanity talks the shooter down.

Hmm, and it looks like most of those take more balls than bullets. Almost like the NRA is a bunch of wannabe tough-guys.

// "tough" guys, not "good" or "bad" guys
// and women, too - they can be shooters and heroes and gun nuts and everything, guys
 
2013-08-26 11:27:45 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: The NRA wants to protect the Constitutional right to keep and bear arms. It does not have a position on empathy and compassion, though I imagine if it did, the position would encourage it.

Why do libs have to lie about conservatives?


Yes, everyone is lying when they say the NRA is a piece of shiat. It's all politics, and libs. There's no way someone could both support the 2nd amendment and find the NRA to be a piece of shiat.
 
2013-08-26 11:29:02 AM

syrynxx: What she did was amazing and laudable.  She could just as easily have been victim #1.  The guy had mental problems and wasn't taking his prescribed medication.


Definitely. Anyone trying to talk down a mentally unstable individual has maybe a 50/50 shot of succeeding.

Not trying, however, would have had a 0% chance of succeeding. And frankly, even if someone in that situation does become victim #1, they might delay the active shooter by those few moments it takes for trained law enforcement to arrive. Every second the shooter spends not pulling the trigger could save a life - even if it isn't yours.
 
2013-08-26 11:30:04 AM

LasersHurt: AverageAmericanGuy: The NRA wants to protect the Constitutional right to keep and bear arms. It does not have a position on empathy and compassion, though I imagine if it did, the position would encourage it.

Why do libs have to lie about conservatives?

Yes, everyone is lying when they say the NRA is a piece of shiat. It's all politics, and libs. There's no way someone could both support the 2nd amendment and find the NRA to be a piece of shiat.


No no no, the NRA is purely oriented toward gun rights. That's why they supported the guy with a history of extending gun rights over the guy with a history of restricting them in the last election.

Oh, wait, no, strike that, reverse it. Thank you.
 
2013-08-26 11:32:04 AM
Arrest her for violating the God free school zone policy.
 
2013-08-26 11:32:19 AM
I don't need to be brave if I've got a gun.
 
2013-08-26 11:33:17 AM

Gulper Eel: Deep Contact: Brave people armed with empathy and compassion  are all dead.

Not in this case, but she was damn lucky.


Very lucky with this one individual.  Trying the same tactic with any of the other spree killers from the last year probably would not have ended as peacefully.
 
2013-08-26 11:34:03 AM
Brave people with empathy and compassion work great when dealing with people of a similar mindset. Against anyone else... not so much.
 
2013-08-26 11:36:34 AM
Some crazy people can be talked down, most can't. The solution is still to lock up more severely mentally ill people.
 
2013-08-26 11:37:13 AM

A Dark Evil Omen: LasersHurt: AverageAmericanGuy: The NRA wants to protect the Constitutional right to keep and bear arms. It does not have a position on empathy and compassion, though I imagine if it did, the position would encourage it.

Why do libs have to lie about conservatives?

Yes, everyone is lying when they say the NRA is a piece of shiat. It's all politics, and libs. There's no way someone could both support the 2nd amendment and find the NRA to be a piece of shiat.

No no no, the NRA is purely oriented toward gun rights. That's why they supported the guy with a history of extending gun rights over the guy with a history of restricting them in the last election.

Oh, wait, no, strike that, reverse it. Thank you.


So Obamas voting record pre presidential election doesn't count and neither does his opinion on firearms which there is also a record of?


Romney expanded gun rights in Mass.

When facing an all out ban, orchestrated by a veto proof democratic majority in the state house,  Romney suggested the state law be married to the language of the federal AWB so MA residents could still purchase weapons made pre 1994.

Ask for citations and I will provide them......
 
2013-08-26 11:38:47 AM
So subby is one of those deluded morons who thinks that the NRA actually WANTS kids gunned down in the schools? What an asshole.
 
2013-08-26 11:40:14 AM
She should have been all "Not on my watch! You're just got .45 units of detention, Mother farker!" And went all BLAMM BLAMM BLAMM while intermittently taking cover behind office furniture all the while preoccupying the shooter untul she could get a clear shot at the fire alarm in order to force an evacuation of the school.

Well, that will be the tv movie version anyway.
 
2013-08-26 11:40:53 AM
cdn.laprogressive.com

"So, ah, Bobby.... what do you think is going on in this here thread?"

/(translated from the original Kenedyesque Bawstonian)
 
2013-08-26 11:42:58 AM

Giltric: Ask for citations and I will provide them......


Asking, since Romney outlawed the AR-15 and quadrupled licensing fees.
Or does that not count?
 
2013-08-26 11:45:09 AM

Weaver95: I got the impression that the newsies were disappointed this story didn't end in blood. I hope I'm wrong about that.


The NRA certainly was
 
2013-08-26 11:46:06 AM
1n this case, the other thing that would've stopped a bad buy with a gun would be if Georgia didn't suck and provided the mentally unhealthy man with Medicaid to cover his psych meds.
 
2013-08-26 11:46:22 AM

syrynxx: What she did was amazing and laudable.  She could just as easily have been victim #1.  The guy had mental problems and wasn't taking his prescribed medication.


And she IS a hero, a true hero.

But if that happens again and she is there again odds are there will be a different outcome.
 
2013-08-26 11:47:25 AM

Witty_Retort: Giltric: Ask for citations and I will provide them......

Asking, since Romney outlawed the AR-15 and quadrupled licensing fees.
Or does that not count?


And that's still better than letting Holder keep his job.
 
2013-08-26 11:49:09 AM

LasersHurt: AverageAmericanGuy:   Why do libs have to lie about conservatives?

Yes, everyone is lying when they say the NRA is a piece of shiat. It's all politics, and libs. There's no way someone could both support the 2nd amendment and find the NRA to be a piece of shiat.


i58.photobucket.com
 
2013-08-26 11:51:20 AM

orclover: Gulper Eel: Deep Contact: Brave people armed with empathy and compassion  are all dead.

Not in this case, but she was damn lucky.

Very lucky with this one individual.  Trying the same tactic with any of the other spree killers from the last year probably would not have ended as peacefully.


True. And if she had a gun she could have blasted him in the face then do a triple back flip in to a waiting Lamborghini, peeling away while an explosion goes off behind it and high fiving people out the window as she drives victory laps around his dead body, all while We Are The Champions is playing on an unseen PA system.

It's all in the NRA pamphlet.
 
2013-08-26 11:52:13 AM
Our politics, particularly in an age of terror, austerity and growing inequality, is predicated on the basis that people are basically venal, selfish, dishonest and untrustworthy. The poor are assumed not to be looking for work but cheating on welfare; foreigners are assumed to be taking something from a culture rather than contributing something to it; public sector workers, like Tuff, are assumed not to be devoted to public service but a drain on our taxes. The disabled are assumed to be well. When we look at others, the default position in much of western political culture is not to see ourselves in them but to see a threat.

Well stated.
 
2013-08-26 11:55:40 AM
What I think everyone learned here is that one sick and delusional person talked down another sick and delusional person by relying on their insane belief in a skywizard looking out for everyone.
 
2013-08-26 11:56:49 AM

syrynxx: What she did was amazing and laudable.  She could just as easily have been victim #1.  The guy had mental problems and wasn't taking his prescribed medication.


Just goes to show the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is not limited to a good guy with a gun.
//If you listen to the full 911 call she breaks down at the end to give a little insight as to how terrifying this must have been.
 
2013-08-26 11:56:50 AM

syrynxx: What she did was amazing and laudable.  She could just as easily have been victim #1.  The guy had mental problems and wasn't taking his prescribed medication.


Yet he had no trouble getting a gun in Georgia.
 
2013-08-26 11:58:53 AM

gilgigamesh: For her generosity of spirit, capacity to humanise the potential shooter and ability to identify with him through her own vulnerabilities do tell us a great deal about what is lacking in our politics.

I hadn't even heard of this incident until now. This woman is unbelievably heroic and should be a role model and an example for all of us, but because she succeeded she is practically invisible.
Had she failed or not been there, the name of the would-be shooter would've been stuck in the news cycle for months.

We are one sick culture destined to spawn an endless chain of these psychos as long as we act to venerate them in that way


Well, what can be done about it? There's very real disagreement in the US about what role weapons should play in our society. Preventing this sort of thing is a core tenet of gun control advocates. They can't and shouldn't be expected to just shut up.
 
2013-08-26 11:59:19 AM
I'm not religious: I'm a lapsed agnostic.

A British person that steals lines straight from Monty Python.

\In the states that would be "NERD", not sure what that makes him in the UK?
 
2013-08-26 11:59:19 AM
NRA response:  The blacks are coming to talk you out of killing people.  Buy moar gunz!!!
 
2013-08-26 12:01:04 PM

lilbjorn: syrynxx: What she did was amazing and laudable.  She could just as easily have been victim #1.  The guy had mental problems and wasn't taking his prescribed medication.

Yet he had no trouble getting a gun in Georgia.


They hand you a gun and a KKK hood when you drive across the state line into Georgia.  Unless you are black, then they give you a warning and point out the road leading out of the state.
 
2013-08-26 12:01:41 PM

Witty_Retort: Giltric: Ask for citations and I will provide them......

Asking, since Romney outlawed the AR-15 and quadrupled licensing fees.
Or does that not count?


They are not outlawed.

they would have been outlawed in the original bill.

The bill was amended so MA residents could purchase ones made prior to 1994.....just like the federal language allowed.


Section 131M. No person shall sell, offer for sale, transfer or possess an assault weapon or a large capacity feeding device that was not otherwise lawfully possessed on September 13, 1994.

http://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXX/Chapter140/ Sec tion131m
 
2013-08-26 12:02:17 PM
Not sure why everyone feels the need to insist this was pure luck and wouldn't work again. People do things like this for attention and out of pure desperation. Not all crazy people are impossible to reason with--there's a lot of midground between batshiat crazy and normal. In my experience, people that resentful and desperate, especially when they're young, respond more to empathy, compassion and genuine concern.

Everyone jumping to say this was a fluke and can't be thought of as a strategy is doing EXACTLY what the article is talking about--assuming the worst about others, assuming they must be a threat.

Most people are boringly human. Treat them like humans, find common ground, connect with them, and people could end up with less bullet holes.
 
2013-08-26 12:02:17 PM
It's almost as if decent psychotherapy can prevent these things...
 
2013-08-26 12:05:11 PM

nekom: gilgigamesh:
We are one sick culture destined to spawn an endless chain of these psychos as long as we act to venerate them in that way

It sells the copy.  What's worse, in my opinion, is that people like this (the would be shooter) exist.  Mental health is nowhere NEAR properly addressed in this country, and it's about time we start taking it seriously.


Agreed.

But we're not not heading towards a solution any time soon.

There's a certain political faction that doesn't want to mental health issues to cloud culpability because then it also forces us to reconsider criminal law. Take drugs like cocaine or methamphetamine as great examples of this.

Couple that hesitation with the scandalous history of mental institutions and you're unlikely to see much success in changing the way we process mental health issues.

We also stigmatize those with mental health issues so treatment is poorly funded and only seen as a last resort.
 
2013-08-26 12:05:23 PM

Doom MD: It's almost as if decent psychotherapy can prevent these things...


Insurance coverage for psychotherapy is unfortunately crap. The rates insurance companies pay out are garbage and medicare/medicaid won't cover psychotherapy given by a social worker in private practice.
 
2013-08-26 12:08:08 PM

Deep Contact: Brave people armed with empathy and compassion  are all dead.


Too bootstrappy and afraid of the blah man to RTFA?
 
2013-08-26 12:09:32 PM
Don't confuse the NRA with the people they use as a cash cow. The two are coming at things from entirely different mindsets.

CS,B: I used to have a client that rented office space in the NRA's headquarters. As member of the smoking mafia I got into conversations with some of the guys who created the faux outrages that are the NRA's bread and butter... The typical NRA member sees the NRA as protecting the 2nd amendment... The NRA itself doesn't give a damn about the 2nd amendment, it's only interested in furthering it's own existence, and evidently it's people don't mind telling it to random guys out in the smoking area.


Given that, yeah... this person *IS* the NRA's worst nightmare, and the whackjob shooters are their best ally. If guns truly were just another tool like hammers then the NRA would have just as much clout and money as the National Hammer Association.
 
2013-08-26 12:13:33 PM
I heard the whole 911 call on CNN the other day and that woman was simply amazing throughout the whole ordeal.
 
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