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(Daily Mail)   Greece wants something for nothing   (dailymail.co.uk) divider line 98
    More: Fail, Greece, Wolfgang Schaeuble, euro group, austerity measures, emergency management, German newspapers, Capital Economics, tranches  
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3456 clicks; posted to Business » on 26 Aug 2013 at 10:24 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-08-26 09:48:02 AM  
It's not something for nothing. It's 8 billion for the right of the Eurozone to continue to exist. Greece can break the Euro tomorrow. Their collapse will be the first in a cascade of them, and after all the work that Germany and the rest put in to salvage the Eurozone they will move Heaven and Earth to keep it afloat.

Remember, if you owe $80,000 the bank owns you, but if you owe $8 billion you own the bank.
 
2013-08-26 10:03:04 AM  
They got tired of moving refrigerators and colour TV's?
 
2013-08-26 10:26:05 AM  
And no wonder why there are waves of Greek immigrants in Canada.
 
2013-08-26 10:27:12 AM  
Something for nothing and their malakas for free.
 
2013-08-26 10:37:19 AM  

SweetHomeNowhere: And no wonder why there are waves of Greek immigrants in Canada.


Actually it is not the economic problems in Greece.  Little known fact is that the greeks love poutine.
 
2013-08-26 10:46:52 AM  

minoridiot: They got tired of moving refrigerators and colour TV's?


s24.postimg.org But they're getting the chicks for free
 
2013-08-26 10:47:40 AM  
Consider it merely a bribe extorted from the rest of Europe to keep their idiotic dream of the Euro alive when it completely screws the smaller, weaker economies that take part.
 
2013-08-26 10:49:31 AM  
Those austerity programs are really working out well.
 
2013-08-26 10:49:45 AM  
So Greece is going full libertarian. G2K
 
2013-08-26 10:55:27 AM  
The only solutions to this problem are to strip Greece of the Sovereignty and make them a vassal state to Germany or to forcibly kick Greece out of the union
 
2013-08-26 10:55:32 AM  
I wonder if the drachma currency is already designed and printed?
 
2013-08-26 10:58:19 AM  

Adolf Oliver Nipples: It's not something for nothing. It's 8 billion for the right of the Eurozone to continue to exist. Greece can break the Euro tomorrow. Their collapse will be the first in a cascade of them, and after all the work that Germany and the rest put in to salvage the Eurozone they will move Heaven and Earth to keep it afloat.

Remember, if you owe $80,000 the bank owns you, but if you owe $8 billion you own the bank.


Eventually the bank decides to just kill you
 
2013-08-26 10:59:08 AM  

Cheron: minoridiot: They got tired of moving refrigerators and colour TV's?

[820x607 from http://s24.postimg.org/45m2nz9b9/direstraits2_1.jpg image 820x607] But they're getting the chicks for free


dammit... beat me to it
 
2013-08-26 10:59:40 AM  
img32.imageshack.us

Do they want freedom for free?
 
2013-08-26 11:02:05 AM  

Muta: Those austerity programs are really working out well.


DOCTOR Ron Paul (who is a doctor so you you know he's smart) assures me that it is.
 
2013-08-26 11:02:49 AM  
Dirty slimy greeks. Lazy farks haven't done shiat for over 2,000 years (aside from ruining Astoria).
 
2013-08-26 11:03:35 AM  
i.imgur.com
 
2013-08-26 11:07:46 AM  
What do they want for nothing?  Rubber biscuit?
 
2013-08-26 11:12:07 AM  

Adolf Oliver Nipples: It's not something for nothing. It's 8 billion for the right of the Eurozone to continue to exist. Greece can break the Euro tomorrow. Their collapse will be the first in a cascade of them, and after all the work that Germany and the rest put in to salvage the Eurozone they will move Heaven and Earth to keep it afloat.

Remember, if you owe $80,000 the bank owns you, but if you owe $8 billion you own the bank.


Uh no, not all.

If Greece leaves the Eurozone and defaults on its debt, it could mean that Portugal and Spain will find it harder to finance their deficits, as leaving the Eurozone then becomes a thing.

But that's different to what you're talking about.

Thankfully Greece doesn't have shiat to bargain with, and likely the got the message via Cyprus loud and clear.
 
2013-08-26 11:15:27 AM  

Scythed: Consider it merely a bribe extorted from the rest of Europe to keep their idiotic dream of the Euro alive when it completely screws the smaller, weaker economies that take part.


I always wondered whether it could be that countries like Greece, Ireland and Cyprus just doesn't realise that they're poor and backwards?
 
2013-08-26 11:30:28 AM  

Cheron: minoridiot: They got tired of moving refrigerators and colour TV's?

[820x607 from http://s24.postimg.org/45m2nz9b9/direstraits2_1.jpg image 820x607] But they're getting the chicks for free


No, for Greece it would cheeks for free.
 
2013-08-26 11:31:33 AM  
Historically speaking this sounds like Greece, way back ~500 BC when Solon cancelled all Greek citizen debts. 

/All this has happened before, and all this will happen again.
 
2013-08-26 11:32:31 AM  
Waiting for the winds of change
To sweep the clouds away
Waiting for the rainbow's end
To cast its gold your way

Countless ways, you pass the days


Waiting for someone to call
And turn your world around
Looking for an answer
To the question you have found
Looking for an open door


Whoa, you don't get something for nothing
You can't have freedom for free
You won't get wise
With the sleep still in your eyes
No matter what your dream might be
 
2013-08-26 11:33:32 AM  
Damnit.  That was supposed to read:

Historically speaking this sounds like Greece.  Way back ~500 BC Solon cancelled all Greek citizen debts.  Now, once again the country is asking for debt forgiveness. 

/All this has happened before, and all this will happen again.
 
2013-08-26 11:38:39 AM  
Greece is the next bed of Eurofascism.

Golden Dawn = Nazi 2.0
 
2013-08-26 11:39:39 AM  
I solve my problems and I see the light
We gotta plug and think, we gotta feed it right
There ain't no danger we can go too far
We start believing now that we can be what we are

Greece is the word
 
2013-08-26 11:49:00 AM  

spawn73: Scythed: Consider it merely a bribe extorted from the rest of Europe to keep their idiotic dream of the Euro alive when it completely screws the smaller, weaker economies that take part.

I always wondered whether it could be that countries like Greece, Ireland and Cyprus just doesn't realise that they're poor and backwards?


We do this sort of money-moving all the time in the US between the states; better off states help subsidize the running of less well off states.    It is how you keep a conglomeration of different economies united as a whole. California helps keep Mississippi afloat, and we generally think of this as a normal part of life.  The problem with the Eurozone is that they in the Articles of Confederation stage.  Germany ought to be merrily shoveling money at Greece while reciting "This is the price for a united economic zone.  I might need to also throttle back my economy a bit to help get Greece's back on track.  Wonder if I can push for a more federalized European Parliament".  Instead, Germany is printing "Fourth Reich 4eva" t-shirts in bulk.  It wants its cake (its economy chugging along full-bore) and to eat it too (get all the bennies of the eurozone without paying the price of those open borders).

Greece's best option, hands down, is to drop the euro, devalue the new drachma, and then rebuild (okay, drop the re-), a la the Argentinian model.  It wouldn't be pretty, but the sociopathically rational actor path is just that.  When it does, Portugal, Spain, and Ireland cannot help but see the same solution as their best option.  This pretty much destroys the Eurozone in a chain of dominoes, as everyone not called France and Germany realize being Germany's biatch helps them not one whit - basically France and Germany would share a common currency and economic protocols, and everyone else would be gone.  Which would most likely totally wreck the German economy as all the Eurozone trade advantages disappear.  Greece is perversely in the driver's seat in this situation.  Yes, it has to commit suicide to win, but Germany will have to jump off the ledge (without Sherlock's preplanning).

The Eurozone isn't naturally a disaster, but they are going to have to accept that each nation-state has to worry about its neighbors, and accept non-advantageous outcomes as part and parcel of economic life.
 
2013-08-26 11:53:26 AM  

spawn73: Scythed: Consider it merely a bribe extorted from the rest of Europe to keep their idiotic dream of the Euro alive when it completely screws the smaller, weaker economies that take part.

I always wondered whether it could be that countries like Greece, Ireland and Cyprus just doesn't realise that they're poor and backwards?


It's the bankers who failed to recognize that when they loaned them billions of Euros at the same rate Germans paid.
 
2013-08-26 11:59:46 AM  

Kuta: Whoa, you don't get something for nothing
You can't have freedom for free


Yup. Thanks for the earworm, Subby.

And let's not forget the corollary:

"And if we don't all chip in
We'll never pay that bill
Freedom isn't free
No, there's a hefty farkin' fee
And if you don't throw in your buck o'five
Who will?"
 
2013-08-26 12:00:40 PM  
Damn you Pavlov!!!

Had to crank the tune. I'll be on a Rush kick all morning now.
 
2013-08-26 12:08:59 PM  
Yes, keep on piling it on the Greek population! They haven't suffered enough.
 
2013-08-26 12:11:58 PM  
www.musicals101.com

Greece is the word
 
2013-08-26 12:15:14 PM  

mcreadyblue: It's the bankers who failed to recognize that when they loaned them billions of Euros at the same rate Germans paid.


This was all predicted in the 1990s.  It's not difficult to foresee.  But anyone who did point it out was called "anti-European" or worse.
 
2013-08-26 12:15:57 PM  
Change? change?

Here, this is all I have.

Change? change. change.

I just gave you some change.

Change, change?

What happened to the change I just gave you?

Change, change?

/or it went something like that.
 
2013-08-26 12:34:54 PM  

FarkedOver: Yes, keep on piling it on the Greek population! They haven't suffered enough.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Greek population (and their attitudes about tax evasion) a large part of the problem? As in "We want social services but don't want to pay for them"?
 
2013-08-26 12:36:25 PM  

grinding_journalist: Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Greek population (and their attitudes about tax evasion) a large part of the problem? As in "We want social services but don't want to pay for them"?


You would be wrong.
 
2013-08-26 12:37:45 PM  

phalamir: We do this sort of money-moving all the time in the US between the states; better off states help subsidize the running of less well off states.    It is how you keep a conglomeration of different economies united as a whole. California helps keep Mississippi afloat, and we generally think of this as a normal part of life.  The problem with the Eurozone is that they in the Articles of Confederation stage.  Germany ought to be merrily shoveling money at Greece while reciting "This is the price for a united economic zone.  I might need to also throttle back my economy a bit to help get Greece's back on track.  Wonder if I can push for a more federalized European Parliament".  Instead, Germany is printing "Fourth Reich 4eva" t-shirts in bulk.  It wants its cake (its economy chugging along full-bore) and to eat it too (get all the bennies of the eurozone without paying the price of those open borders).


But it also works both ways. Greece can't keep accepting money from Germany without acknowledging that it has a political and economic responsibility to Germany as well. You're absolutely right about it being an Articles of Confederation kind of problem but I don't think though that it's going to result in a US constitution kid of solution. Germany has too much to lose and little to gain by giving up some political power to a united Europe. Had the prosperity of the 90's continued maybe there would have been a closer relationship but I think we're going to see a Europe dominated by a few big players unwilling to share power even if the Euro does survive.
 
2013-08-26 12:40:45 PM  

FarkedOver: grinding_journalist: Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Greek population (and their attitudes about tax evasion) a large part of the problem? As in "We want social services but don't want to pay for them"?

You would be wrong.


I thought I'd heard that they had a huge rate of tax evasion and extremely generous retirement packages at rediculously young ages. But sometimes my reading comprehension is suspect.  Regardless, that is the impression I now have of Greece.
 
2013-08-26 12:50:06 PM  

Tricky Chicken: FarkedOver: grinding_journalist: Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Greek population (and their attitudes about tax evasion) a large part of the problem? As in "We want social services but don't want to pay for them"?

You would be wrong.

I thought I'd heard that they had a huge rate of tax evasion and extremely generous retirement packages at rediculously young ages. But sometimes my reading comprehension is suspect.  Regardless, that is the impression I now have of Greece.


Yep.  And on top of that, one of their most lucrative industries, shipping, is tax-free.  Fraud is rampant.
 
2013-08-26 12:54:48 PM  

grinding_journalist: FarkedOver: Yes, keep on piling it on the Greek population! They haven't suffered enough.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Greek population (and their attitudes about tax evasion) a large part of the problem? As in "We want social services but don't want to pay for them"?


You should read some of the work by economist Yanis Varoufakis.
http://yanisvaroufakis.eu/

During an interview he provided a decent summary of the current situation in Greece:

"Yanis Varoufakis: But, look, Geraldine, the reason why we're talking about this now has nothing to do with the Greek character or Greek identity. It's got to do with the fact that Greece is caught in a systemic crisis of the eurozone and it finds itself, unfortunately for the Greeks, in the position of the weakest link of the chain, the canary in the mine, so to speak. If Greece was not a member of the eurozone, we wouldn't be having this discussion, because what would have happened is a debt crisis, possibly caused by tax immunity or evasion, would have resulted in a devaluation of the Greek currency and the whole system would have rebounded.

Now, it is because we're in the eurozone that this is not possible. Imagine what would have happened during the banana republic years of Australia if the Australian currency was a foreign currency-the American dollar, let's say-and the only way [for] the Australian society to adjust to an economic crisis would be through a massive reduction in wages. You know, then, the whole of the world would be talking about the Australian character and Australian identity and that would be, again, completely misleading."
 http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/saturdayextra/greece-c ult ure-and-economics/3636986
 
2013-08-26 01:02:09 PM  
Give them the bailout on the condition it must be used to pay off priority creditors, grant them temporary non-EU status for six or so years, let them print their own currency, let them pay off their debt in largely de-valued drachma and suffer from higher interest rates for the next decade or two, and re-focus future bailout efforts on Portugal, Spain, and Italy.

And this point I don't see any hope for the EU outside of a structured, gentle exit from the Union and the return to a soverign currency for Greece. They're just too far gone, and some amount of austerity makes sense, but there just isn't anything else to cut or tax that will result in sustainable growth. Or curtailing of contraction, rather...
 
2013-08-26 01:07:08 PM  
Money for nothing, OK, if the Germans agree, but NO free chicks  fat chicks  Big Fat Greek Weddiings.
 
2013-08-26 01:07:32 PM  

Kuta: Waiting for the winds of change
To sweep the clouds away
Waiting for the rainbow's end
To cast its gold your way

Countless ways, you pass the days


Waiting for someone to call
And turn your world around
Looking for an answer
To the question you have found
Looking for an open door


Whoa, you don't get something for nothing
You can't have freedom for free
You won't get wise
With the sleep still in your eyes
No matter what your dream might be


Great song off of one of my all time favorite albums.
 
2013-08-26 01:18:57 PM  
There's nothing left to cut in Greece without starting the systematic destruction of the country.

Save the $8B, let Greece declare bankruptcy, and kick them out of the Euro currency. Greeks will be better off and they can start rebuilding their economy. Europe will take it on the chin once and get over it.

Greece is only being propped up to preserve the cash flow of creditors.
 
2013-08-26 01:21:19 PM  
thecampofthesaints.files.wordpress.com

Greece: "Say, mister. Will you stake a fellow European to a meal?"

Germany: "Such impudence never came my way. Early this afternoon I gave you money... while I was having my shoes polished I gave you MORE money... now you put the bite on me again. Do me a favor, will ya? Go occasionally to somebody else - it's beginning to get tiresome."
 
2013-08-26 01:27:30 PM  

JohnAnnArbor: mcreadyblue: It's the bankers who failed to recognize that when they loaned them billions of Euros at the same rate Germans paid.

This was all predicted in the 1990s.  It's not difficult to foresee.  But anyone who did point it out was called "anti-European" or worse.


Back in the 1990s and early 2000s, liberals loved to talk about how we are in a post-country society and would often start sentences with things like "As a citizen of the world...". They totally bought into the EU dream, hook, line and sinker. We were called racist, backwater American exceptionalists or jealous imperialists when expressing concern.
 
2013-08-26 01:37:06 PM  

Nemo's Brother: JohnAnnArbor: mcreadyblue: It's the bankers who failed to recognize that when they loaned them billions of Euros at the same rate Germans paid.

This was all predicted in the 1990s.  It's not difficult to foresee.  But anyone who did point it out was called "anti-European" or worse.

Back in the 1990s and early 2000s, liberals loved to talk about how we are in a post-country society and would often start sentences with things like "As a citizen of the world...". They totally bought into the EU dream, hook, line and sinker. We were called racist, backwater American exceptionalists or jealous imperialists when expressing concern.


And I bet you're still frightened of the Amero.
 
2013-08-26 01:41:07 PM  

digistil: So Greece is going full libertarian. G2K


What?
 
2013-08-26 01:44:18 PM  

Nemo's Brother: JohnAnnArbor: mcreadyblue: It's the bankers who failed to recognize that when they loaned them billions of Euros at the same rate Germans paid.

This was all predicted in the 1990s.  It's not difficult to foresee.  But anyone who did point it out was called "anti-European" or worse.

Back in the 1990s and early 2000s, liberals loved to talk about how we are in a post-country society and would often start sentences with things like "As a citizen of the world...". They totally bought into the EU dream, hook, line and sinker. We were called racist, backwater American exceptionalists or jealous imperialists when expressing concern.


Does it soothe you to make shiat up? Cuz you sure do it a LOT.
 
2013-08-26 01:47:47 PM  

FarkedOver: Nemo's Brother: JohnAnnArbor: mcreadyblue: It's the bankers who failed to recognize that when they loaned them billions of Euros at the same rate Germans paid.

This was all predicted in the 1990s.  It's not difficult to foresee.  But anyone who did point it out was called "anti-European" or worse.

Back in the 1990s and early 2000s, liberals loved to talk about how we are in a post-country society and would often start sentences with things like "As a citizen of the world...". They totally bought into the EU dream, hook, line and sinker. We were called racist, backwater American exceptionalists or jealous imperialists when expressing concern.

And I bet you're still frightened of the Amero.


Never heard of it.  But do tell us why the euro single-currency is a great idea, and why all the people who predicted ahead of time EXACTLY what's happened are somehow bad people.
 
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