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(Sun Sentinel)   "If you believe that someone waited 17 years to ask for their money back after paying $1 million a year, then my client maybe has a problem," defense attorney Schwartz said. "We think it's a little late to ask for a refund"   (sun-sentinel.com) divider line 71
    More: Interesting, refunds, Palm Beach County News, Jude Deveraux  
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14630 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 Aug 2013 at 7:45 AM (47 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-08-26 04:07:11 PM

no 5th av. in Billings: Right, because nobody has ever advertised online and then fleeced people irl.


THEN IT'S NOT FREE.

Nice job moving the goal posts.  You can go to church all you want, and it's free.  Psychics, not so much.
 
2013-08-26 04:14:36 PM
I have no problem with punishing those who take advantage of others, but ... if you believe in fortune telling (or past life regression, or "mediums" who communicate with the dead), maybe you deserve to lose some money.

Call it a "dumb tax."
 
2013-08-26 04:28:59 PM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: no 5th av. in Billings: Right, because nobody has ever advertised online and then fleeced people irl.

THEN IT'S NOT FREE.

Nice job moving the goal posts.  You can go to church all you want, and it's free.  Psychics, not so much.


As I have demonstrated, free psychic readings are widely available, no doubt church services are as well.The disingenuous nature of your argument leads me to point out that it is not unheard of to enter a contract with a church, rendering the services no longer free.
I have no personal experience with this because, I'm not insane but I am sure it is fairly well documented that certain groups charge for their services.
/study it out
 
2013-08-26 04:37:35 PM

no 5th av. in Billings: The disingenuous nature of your argument leads me to point out that it is not unheard of to enter a contract with a church, rendering the services no longer free.


What "church" does this?
 
2013-08-26 04:42:20 PM

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: Schroedinger's Glory Hole: Churches soliciting ten percent of their customers income... still okay!

This is no different than prosperity theology.

All organized religion is rooted in money somehow.


Religion = Superstition + $$$$$

All you need to know about that.
 
2013-08-26 04:45:34 PM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: no 5th av. in Billings: The disingenuous nature of your argument leads me to point out that it is not unheard of to enter a contract with a church, rendering the services no longer free.

What "church" does this?


If you are required to purchase course materials to participate in a church activity will that meet the burden of "no longer free"?
 
2013-08-26 04:55:31 PM

no 5th av. in Billings: BraveNewCheneyWorld: no 5th av. in Billings: The disingenuous nature of your argument leads me to point out that it is not unheard of to enter a contract with a church, rendering the services no longer free.

What "church" does this?

If you are required to purchase course materials to participate in a church activity will that meet the burden of "no longer free"?


You haven't answered my question.
 
2013-08-26 05:01:30 PM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: no 5th av. in Billings: BraveNewCheneyWorld: no 5th av. in Billings: The disingenuous nature of your argument leads me to point out that it is not unheard of to enter a contract with a church, rendering the services no longer free.

What "church" does this?

If you are required to purchase course materials to participate in a church activity will that meet the burden of "no longer free"?

You haven't answered my question.


Regarding studying it out, try the googles. In a few seconds you can see that there are fees for weddings and funerals.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/feb/07/church-of-england-marri ag e-funeral
 
2013-08-26 05:22:32 PM

no 5th av. in Billings: BraveNewCheneyWorld: no 5th av. in Billings: BraveNewCheneyWorld: no 5th av. in Billings: The disingenuous nature of your argument leads me to point out that it is not unheard of to enter a contract with a church, rendering the services no longer free.

What "church" does this?

If you are required to purchase course materials to participate in a church activity will that meet the burden of "no longer free"?

You haven't answered my question.

Regarding studying it out, try the googles. In a few seconds you can see that there are fees for weddings and funerals.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/feb/07/church-of-england-marri ag e-funeral


Oh, so you're an even bigger idiot than I thought.

In Christianity, a church service is a formalized period of communal worship, often but not exclusively occurring on Sunday, or Saturday in the case of those churches practicing seventh-day Sabbatarianism. The church service is the gathering together of Christians to be taught the "Word of God" (the Christian Bible) and encouraged in their faith.
 
2013-08-26 05:32:40 PM
In the Mormon church, members are required to attend a "tithing reconciliation" once a year with their local Bishop (pastor). They bring tax returns and examine their tithe records. If they haven't tithed at least 10%, they can be punished. They can be banned from taking sacrament (and they believe that taking sacrament is the only way to be forgiven for the sins you've committed since the last time you took sacrament). They can be banned from temple ordinances (marriages, endowments, etc.), which they believe to be necessary for ascending into the Celestial Kingdom. In other words, if they fail to tithe, they will be "cursed" by God and not allowed to enter the Celestial Kingdom. Repeat offenders can even lose the priesthood, meaning that they can no longer perform blessings and healings on their own family members.

I have sat in churches where the pastor (or a revival speaker) claimed to have the power of healing. You come up to the altar, make a "donation", then the speaker lays his hands on you, prays, and pronounces you cured. You can ATTEND that church without paying, but you can't be "cleansed" or "healed" or whatever they call it.

And the truth is that there's not much difference between what those churches do and what this psychic did. I've heard pastors say that if you're not where you want to be in life (not rich enough, not powerful enough, not healthy enough, not happy enough), it's because you have a demon within you (and they weren't using this figuratively - they meant a LITERAL demon). So you need to be "cleansed" of your demon, and you have to make a "donation" for that. And if it doesn't work? You need to be more generous and make a BIGGER donation.
 
2013-08-26 05:34:05 PM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: no 5th av. in Billings: BraveNewCheneyWorld: no 5th av. in Billings: BraveNewCheneyWorld: no 5th av. in Billings: The disingenuous nature of your argument leads me to point out that it is not unheard of to enter a contract with a church, rendering the services no longer free.

What "church" does this?

If you are required to purchase course materials to participate in a church activity will that meet the burden of "no longer free"?

You haven't answered my question.

Regarding studying it out, try the googles. In a few seconds you can see that there are fees for weddings and funerals.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/feb/07/church-of-england-marri ag e-funeral

Oh, so you're an even bigger idiot than I thought.

In Christianity, a church service is a formalized period of communal worship, often but not exclusively occurring on Sunday, or Saturday in the case of those churches practicing seventh-day Sabbatarianism. The church service is the gathering together of Christians to be taught the "Word of God" (the Christian Bible) and encouraged in their faith.


Ok, well it seems you are familiar with Christianity, so you will understand that baptism is considered in some sects a requirement to join the church guess what?  There is a fee for that.

How is this not entering a contract?

In order to join, you have to pay.
 
2013-08-26 05:38:02 PM

morgantx: In the Mormon church


That's like judging all churches based on the "church" of scientology.  You might as well say Dr Pepper is bad for you, therefore all doctors are bad.
 
2013-08-26 05:41:03 PM

no 5th av. in Billings: Ok, well it seems you are familiar with Christianity, so you will understand that baptism is considered in some sects a requirement to join the church guess what?  There is a fee for that.


Yeah, because no church does free baptisms...
 
2013-08-26 05:42:08 PM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: morgantx: In the Mormon church

That's like judging all churches based on the "church" of scientology.  You might as well say Dr Pepper is bad for you, therefore all doctors are bad.


I won't disagree with you. They're much more open about their church dues than some people. My point here is that these churches (Mormons, Scientologists, etc.) are allowed to charge money for spiritual "blessings". They're legally permitted to tell you that if you don't pay them, you will be (or remain) "cursed".

If this woman had done the reasonable thing and incorporated as a church and called it "pastoral counseling", she wouldn't be having this problem.

/I work as an online psychic.
//Also an ordained minister.
///Pastoral counseling FTW!
 
2013-08-26 05:44:00 PM
BraveNewCheneyWorld:

Ok, I see that all of my examples would be considered optional, not required to participate in "services" in the context you have provided. Services having more than one meaning. Wow. You got me.
Good thing all religions function exactly like the one you cited.
 
2013-08-26 06:04:46 PM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: DarkVader: They're all essentially doing the same thing, telling people lies in order to extract money from them.

Church is free, your comparison is invalid.


Ok, I get it now. That comparison is invalid because church is free, except for when it isn't. And if they extract money from you, that doesn't matter because "services" are still free.

Yeah, totally different from psychics.
 
2013-08-26 06:52:37 PM

no 5th av. in Billings: BraveNewCheneyWorld:

Ok, I see that all of my examples would be considered optional, not required to participate in "services" in the context you have provided. Services having more than one meaning. Wow. You got me.
Good thing all religions function exactly like the one you cited.


So, the only way they could make you happy is if they're naked and starving in the street?
 
2013-08-26 07:16:09 PM
No, I just saw your statement, thought it was stupid. I don't have a dog in this fight. Just your dumb statement, and my boredom.
Girlfriend is out of town, and it is raining here today. Nobody to argue with. Actually, I should thank you. My day went by quicker, possibly at your expense.
 
2013-08-26 07:39:21 PM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: no 5th av. in Billings: BraveNewCheneyWorld:

Ok, I see that all of my examples would be considered optional, not required to participate in "services" in the context you have provided. Services having more than one meaning. Wow. You got me.
Good thing all religions function exactly like the one you cited.

So, the only way they could make you happy is if they're naked and starving in the street?


I would prefer they legitimize psychic readings. Call it religion, afford it all the protections of any other religious organization. If people choose to give them money, great. Genuinely, I was just attacking your assertion that attending church is free, so no parallels could be drawn between it and a for profit entity. I felt that was a blatantly ignorant thing to say, and I wanted to see you defend it.

Instead, you attacked me, then changed your argument.
 
2013-08-26 08:12:43 PM
no 5th av. in Billings:

Instead, you attacked me, then changed your argument.

www.frontroomcinema.com
 
2013-08-26 08:43:54 PM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: no 5th av. in Billings:

Instead, you attacked me, then changed your argument.

[400x400 from http://www.frontroomcinema.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Film-Project or.jpeg image 400x400]


touchè
 
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