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(Sun Sentinel)   "If you believe that someone waited 17 years to ask for their money back after paying $1 million a year, then my client maybe has a problem," defense attorney Schwartz said. "We think it's a little late to ask for a refund"   (sun-sentinel.com) divider line 71
    More: Interesting, refunds, Palm Beach County News, Jude Deveraux  
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14632 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 Aug 2013 at 7:45 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



71 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2013-08-26 07:45:58 AM
Why was A 7 year old on a atv
 
2013-08-26 07:48:43 AM
Another family of thieving gypsies
 
2013-08-26 07:49:00 AM
Oddly enough, I agree with a psychic. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me for seventeen years to the tune of 30x the median annual wage, shame on me, my accountant, my family, etc.

Not that I think the psychic should get to keep the money, but the author is clearly undeserving.
 
2013-08-26 07:49:39 AM

BiffDangler: Another family of thieving gypsies


Successful and hardworking Roma
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2013-08-26 07:49:41 AM
Plaintiff is an idiot, but of course that doesn't preclude the fact that the defendant is a crook.
 
2013-08-26 07:53:11 AM
If you're dumb enough to go to an psychic for 17 years, you shouldn't have that kind of money in the first place.
 
2013-08-26 07:55:19 AM
I guess she didn't see that coming...
 
2013-08-26 07:56:57 AM

d23: Plaintiff is an idiot, but of course that doesn't preclude the fact that the defendant is a crook.


Yeah...having a hard time choosing sides here...

can we find them all guilty?  sentence them to live together or something?

/hey, reality show premise!   Psychics and their Victims, Thursday nights.
 
2013-08-26 08:02:30 AM

NickelP: Why was A 7 year old on a atv


Because that's how we used to roll, back when Americans had spines.

/puns aside, it's the truth
//miss my old Honda ATC 110
 
2013-08-26 08:06:22 AM
This is not going to end well.

www.fearnet.com
 
2013-08-26 08:07:46 AM

Kuroshin: NickelP: Why was A 7 year old on a atv

Because that's how we used to roll, back when Americans had spines.

/puns aside, it's the truth
//miss my old Honda ATC 110


Totally agree, however no electric start on the 110 so,
/ATC 125m FTW!
 
2013-08-26 08:11:17 AM
jaredblakedicroce.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-08-26 08:12:22 AM
Jury Foreman: We find the Defendant guilty of fraud, and the Plaintiff guilty of being a moran.
 
2013-08-26 08:12:51 AM
Churches soliciting ten percent of their customers income... still okay!

This is no different than prosperity theology.
 
2013-08-26 08:13:34 AM
I tithed my apostrophe.
 
2013-08-26 08:16:36 AM

d23: Plaintiff is an idiot, but of course that doesn't preclude the fact that the defendant is a crook.


So can we prosecute all religions?  They're all essentially doing the same thing, telling people lies in order to extract money from them.
 
2013-08-26 08:17:30 AM
I'm not surprised so much by the psychic fraud -- the words "psychic fraud" being redundant and all -- as much as I'm surprised by a romance novelist making that many millions.  Wacky world this.
 
2013-08-26 08:29:20 AM

yequalsy: I'm not surprised so much by the psychic fraud -- the words "psychic fraud" being redundant and all -- as much as I'm surprised by a romance novelist making that many millions.  Wacky world this.


It surprises you the amount women in today's society purchase that smut?
 
2013-08-26 08:29:42 AM
The amount of money involved in what prosecutors say was a 20-year scam and the celebrity status of the main witness - best-selling romance novelist Jude Deveraux, who they say lost $17 million - have brought notoriety to the case.

A fool and their money..are soon parted. Seriously, if you're stupid enough to throw money at some "psychic" hack, you don't deserve your money back. Nobody is "psychic" they are con artists fleecing you out of your coin. Try not being an idiot next time. Idiot.
 
2013-08-26 08:30:46 AM

Sybarite: This is not going to end well.

[580x371 from http://www.fearnet.com/sites/default/files/images/legacy/fearnetImages /im+5JUFqF5+WRbiGhgSg2pPA==.jpg image 580x371]


Watch out for train tracks...
 
2013-08-26 08:32:09 AM

DarkVader: d23: Plaintiff is an idiot, but of course that doesn't preclude the fact that the defendant is a crook.

So can we prosecute all religions?  They're all essentially doing the same thing, telling people lies in order to extract money from them.


/True, but unfortunately, there are too many sheeple in the world that keep praying to their version of their invisible sky wizard to keep the human race from taking the next evolutionary step as a species.  Way to keep clinging to the dark ages. Slow golf clap.
 
2013-08-26 08:33:06 AM
If you are dumb enough to go to a psychic then you do not deserve any money back. You paid for the useless service because you are desperate moron with too much money in your pocket.
 
2013-08-26 08:34:25 AM

PunGent: d23: Plaintiff is an idiot, but of course that doesn't preclude the fact that the defendant is a crook.

Yeah...having a hard time choosing sides here...

can we find them all guilty?  sentence them to live together or something?

/hey, reality show premise!   Psychics and their Victims, Thursday nights.


I think that sums it up. The law protects stupid people, just as much as smart people. More, if they are rich.

I bet the judge gets a headache from rolling her eyes.
 
2013-08-26 08:40:40 AM

Schroedinger's Glory Hole: Churches soliciting ten percent of their customers income... still okay!

This is no different than prosperity theology.


All organized religion is rooted in money somehow.
 
2013-08-26 08:40:57 AM

monoski: If you are dumb enough to go to a psychic church  Mets game

casino Place that I don't like that offers a service I don't like then you do not deserve any money back. You paid for the useless service because you are desperate moron with too much money in your pocket.

FTFY
 
2013-08-26 08:44:03 AM

Schroedinger's Glory Hole: I tithed my apostrophe.


This is a family site. We don't need you in here posting about the perverted freaky stuff you do.


/reported!
 
2013-08-26 08:57:16 AM

Bit'O'Gristle: /True, but unfortunately, there are too many sheeple in the world that keep praying to their version of their invisible sky wizard to keep the human race from taking the next evolutionary step as a species.  Way to keep clinging to the dark ages. Slow golf clap.


Erm. What evolutionary step would man-kind take if they stopped having religion? I'm not advocating for or against any beliefs, I'm just genuinely curious as to how a belief is holding back evolution.

Wouldn't those that have rejected truth/contagious meme over the preceding generations and had children that also didn't believe have already taken that next step, if there were an evolutionary advantage to be had?
 
2013-08-26 09:02:28 AM

Kuroshin: NickelP: Why was A 7 year old on a atv

Because that's how we used to roll, back when Americans had spines.

/puns aside, it's the truth
//miss my old Honda ATC 110


No spines anymore. Guess the 7 year olds flipped their ATVs and shattered them.
 
2013-08-26 09:18:41 AM

DarkVader: They're all essentially doing the same thing, telling people lies in order to extract money from them.


Church is free, your comparison is invalid.
 
2013-08-26 09:27:53 AM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: DarkVader: They're all essentially doing the same thing, telling people lies in order to extract money from them.

Church is free, your comparison is invalid.


googles "free psychic reading"
900,000 results
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2013-08-26 09:39:01 AM
I had a halfway decent pastor growing up, but still there were at 3 Sunday sermons a year (usually around early fall) about the concept of tithing.
 
2013-08-26 09:41:14 AM
That's not a tank, it's an armored car.  The cops may even call it an armored personnel carrier, but the military wouldn't.  But everyone should feel free to panic about the militarized police coming to round us up into the FEMA camps.
 
2013-08-26 09:44:59 AM
The real news here is that a romance novelist had $17M to blow.
 
2013-08-26 09:45:25 AM
The solution here is actually fairly simple: Anyone who was aware that psychics/fortunetellers are frauds and paid solely for the entertainment value have to right to ask for their money's return - they got what they paid for. Anyone who was mentally deficient to the point they did not realize they were dealing with frauds will get their money returned, but only to a court-appointed custodian who can manage said money (and all other assets) for those mentally deficient.  Plaintiff's may choose which category describes them.
 
2013-08-26 09:53:07 AM
24.media.tumblr.com

/hot
//like 2 lbs of Blue Heisenberg
 
2013-08-26 10:21:04 AM
The idiot who was giving the psychic millions over a period of years was doing it voluntarily and doesn't deserve any of it back.  It also doesn't look like a crime, since it's legal to "work" as a psychic.

Tax evasion is the only issue.
 
2013-08-26 10:40:41 AM

Teaser: [500x395 from http://jaredblakedicroce.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/should-have-seen- that-coming.jpg image 500x395]


Is that a bar called Orgasm? I think that's a bar called Orgasm.
 
2013-08-26 11:07:52 AM
isucceedbook.com

... and some of them never learn.
 
2013-08-26 11:51:23 AM
hope this sets a precedent where former Scientologists can sue to get their "course fees" refunded without having to sue in Federal court (plus a LOT of interest)
 
2013-08-26 12:26:33 PM
a tad bit excessive for "entertainment"

i would not pay 1 dollar to be entertained this way!
 
2013-08-26 12:33:07 PM
I agree with most here that she doesn't deserve the refund.  If she had been going for 17 years, and the sessions did in fact enhance her life, even if just a simple matter of placebo or "mind over matter", then she got what she paid for.  On the other hand, the article mentions something about the psychic not returning money that she had said she would.  If this is the case, then the plaintiff might have a case.  If indeed some clause or policy existed that promised a refund that never came, then that is fraud.
 
2013-08-26 12:58:20 PM

DubtodaIll: Teaser: [500x395 from http://jaredblakedicroce.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/should-have-seen- that-coming.jpg image 500x395]

Is that a bar called Orgasm? I think that's a bar called Orgasm.


That was the first thing I noticed as well. I want to go there now.
 
2013-08-26 01:29:31 PM
It's like the psychic knew the lawsuit was coming and had a defense ready.

Spooky.
 
2013-08-26 01:31:49 PM
A psychic fraud. Color me shocked.
ts2.mm.bing.net
 
2013-08-26 01:44:56 PM

DarkVader: So can we prosecute all religions?  They're all essentially doing the same thing, telling people lies in order to extract money from them.


Yeah, you don't see many ministers who are living hand-to-mouth, do you?  They all seem to have big homes, 2-5 cars (each kid MUST have a car at 16, just because!), a pool out back, vacations around the world, etc.

And I'd wager they write off the vacations as "ministerial research", or "missionary work".
 
2013-08-26 01:52:10 PM

BiffDangler: Another family of thieving gypsies


The problem with the racial prejudice against certain groups (like gypsies) is they're raised that way.  It's a result of subcultural isolation.  Think about how people in Chicago and Detroit act versus people in similar-income midwest cities.

Gypsies are typically raised with an idea that an open space is a public space, and it's a matter of right and wrong to take that away from people.  That is:  we'll raid abandoned houses and evict drunks and homeless from them; gypsies will wage a war on you and demand that the house is now theirs because nobody was using it.  This means even if you own a house and are away on vacation, they'll break in and start using it and then demand that they be allowed to keep it.  You have another house, you weren't using it, it isn't right for you to keep all that you have from those who do not.

This is a similar attitude to current-generation America, where we believe the Government should provide people with everything from healthcare to education to jobs.  We want more housing for the homeless; when you bring up that people won't work, they counter that they're not all people who won't work... without covering the obvious segment of people who, in fact, will just stay home retired if you give them free welfare.  Gypsies are more extreme about it, but the basic idealism of "tax the rich more" and "Give the poor, needy more stuff" are the same.  Gypsies are more fluid about it:  they see something they don't have, you're not coddling it, they take it.

They also have all this superstition, which is why they're fortune tellers.  It's not so much malice and fraud as it is quackery.

This is all important, because you can't really effectively address these social problems if you just go "black people are criminal drug dealers and gypsies are lying scamming thieves".  It's not that there isn't a problem; it's that the problem isn't understood and the solution isn't "that's wrong and you know it's wrong and you're going to jail."
 
2013-08-26 01:53:59 PM

indy_kid: DarkVader: So can we prosecute all religions?  They're all essentially doing the same thing, telling people lies in order to extract money from them.

Yeah, you don't see many ministers who are living hand-to-mouth, do you?  They all seem to have big homes, 2-5 cars (each kid MUST have a car at 16, just because!), a pool out back, vacations around the world, etc.

And I'd wager they write off the vacations as "ministerial research", or "missionary work".


Seriously? Are you just judging by the smiley faced megachurch pastors?

I go to a church of about 1200 with 5 pastors on staff. All of them live in average middle class homes, drive used cars and none of them has a pool in their backyard. I do know a few ministers who live hand-to-mouth, or who work a second job to support their ministry work. I'd suggest that you get out more and meet some of the people doing work in poor neighborhoods or rural communities, if you are genuinely interested in knowing about the people who work in ministry.
 
2013-08-26 02:12:47 PM

no 5th av. in Billings: BraveNewCheneyWorld: DarkVader: They're all essentially doing the same thing, telling people lies in order to extract money from them.

Church is free, your comparison is invalid.

googles "free psychic reading"
900,000 results


Did the lady perform her service online?  No? Ok, stfu then.
 
2013-08-26 03:23:06 PM
fark gypsies! fark psychics! and fark people who give their money to psychics!
 
2013-08-26 03:29:29 PM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: no 5th av. in Billings: BraveNewCheneyWorld: DarkVader: They're all essentially doing the same thing, telling people lies in order to extract money from them.

Church is free, your comparison is invalid.

googles "free psychic reading"
900,000 results

Did the lady perform her service online?  No? Ok, stfu then.


Right, because nobody has ever advertised online and then fleeced people irl.
You sound smrt.
 
2013-08-26 04:07:11 PM

no 5th av. in Billings: Right, because nobody has ever advertised online and then fleeced people irl.


THEN IT'S NOT FREE.

Nice job moving the goal posts.  You can go to church all you want, and it's free.  Psychics, not so much.
 
2013-08-26 04:14:36 PM
I have no problem with punishing those who take advantage of others, but ... if you believe in fortune telling (or past life regression, or "mediums" who communicate with the dead), maybe you deserve to lose some money.

Call it a "dumb tax."
 
2013-08-26 04:28:59 PM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: no 5th av. in Billings: Right, because nobody has ever advertised online and then fleeced people irl.

THEN IT'S NOT FREE.

Nice job moving the goal posts.  You can go to church all you want, and it's free.  Psychics, not so much.


As I have demonstrated, free psychic readings are widely available, no doubt church services are as well.The disingenuous nature of your argument leads me to point out that it is not unheard of to enter a contract with a church, rendering the services no longer free.
I have no personal experience with this because, I'm not insane but I am sure it is fairly well documented that certain groups charge for their services.
/study it out
 
2013-08-26 04:37:35 PM

no 5th av. in Billings: The disingenuous nature of your argument leads me to point out that it is not unheard of to enter a contract with a church, rendering the services no longer free.


What "church" does this?
 
2013-08-26 04:42:20 PM

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: Schroedinger's Glory Hole: Churches soliciting ten percent of their customers income... still okay!

This is no different than prosperity theology.

All organized religion is rooted in money somehow.


Religion = Superstition + $$$$$

All you need to know about that.
 
2013-08-26 04:45:34 PM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: no 5th av. in Billings: The disingenuous nature of your argument leads me to point out that it is not unheard of to enter a contract with a church, rendering the services no longer free.

What "church" does this?


If you are required to purchase course materials to participate in a church activity will that meet the burden of "no longer free"?
 
2013-08-26 04:55:31 PM

no 5th av. in Billings: BraveNewCheneyWorld: no 5th av. in Billings: The disingenuous nature of your argument leads me to point out that it is not unheard of to enter a contract with a church, rendering the services no longer free.

What "church" does this?

If you are required to purchase course materials to participate in a church activity will that meet the burden of "no longer free"?


You haven't answered my question.
 
2013-08-26 05:01:30 PM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: no 5th av. in Billings: BraveNewCheneyWorld: no 5th av. in Billings: The disingenuous nature of your argument leads me to point out that it is not unheard of to enter a contract with a church, rendering the services no longer free.

What "church" does this?

If you are required to purchase course materials to participate in a church activity will that meet the burden of "no longer free"?

You haven't answered my question.


Regarding studying it out, try the googles. In a few seconds you can see that there are fees for weddings and funerals.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/feb/07/church-of-england-marri ag e-funeral
 
2013-08-26 05:22:32 PM

no 5th av. in Billings: BraveNewCheneyWorld: no 5th av. in Billings: BraveNewCheneyWorld: no 5th av. in Billings: The disingenuous nature of your argument leads me to point out that it is not unheard of to enter a contract with a church, rendering the services no longer free.

What "church" does this?

If you are required to purchase course materials to participate in a church activity will that meet the burden of "no longer free"?

You haven't answered my question.

Regarding studying it out, try the googles. In a few seconds you can see that there are fees for weddings and funerals.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/feb/07/church-of-england-marri ag e-funeral


Oh, so you're an even bigger idiot than I thought.

In Christianity, a church service is a formalized period of communal worship, often but not exclusively occurring on Sunday, or Saturday in the case of those churches practicing seventh-day Sabbatarianism. The church service is the gathering together of Christians to be taught the "Word of God" (the Christian Bible) and encouraged in their faith.
 
2013-08-26 05:32:40 PM
In the Mormon church, members are required to attend a "tithing reconciliation" once a year with their local Bishop (pastor). They bring tax returns and examine their tithe records. If they haven't tithed at least 10%, they can be punished. They can be banned from taking sacrament (and they believe that taking sacrament is the only way to be forgiven for the sins you've committed since the last time you took sacrament). They can be banned from temple ordinances (marriages, endowments, etc.), which they believe to be necessary for ascending into the Celestial Kingdom. In other words, if they fail to tithe, they will be "cursed" by God and not allowed to enter the Celestial Kingdom. Repeat offenders can even lose the priesthood, meaning that they can no longer perform blessings and healings on their own family members.

I have sat in churches where the pastor (or a revival speaker) claimed to have the power of healing. You come up to the altar, make a "donation", then the speaker lays his hands on you, prays, and pronounces you cured. You can ATTEND that church without paying, but you can't be "cleansed" or "healed" or whatever they call it.

And the truth is that there's not much difference between what those churches do and what this psychic did. I've heard pastors say that if you're not where you want to be in life (not rich enough, not powerful enough, not healthy enough, not happy enough), it's because you have a demon within you (and they weren't using this figuratively - they meant a LITERAL demon). So you need to be "cleansed" of your demon, and you have to make a "donation" for that. And if it doesn't work? You need to be more generous and make a BIGGER donation.
 
2013-08-26 05:34:05 PM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: no 5th av. in Billings: BraveNewCheneyWorld: no 5th av. in Billings: BraveNewCheneyWorld: no 5th av. in Billings: The disingenuous nature of your argument leads me to point out that it is not unheard of to enter a contract with a church, rendering the services no longer free.

What "church" does this?

If you are required to purchase course materials to participate in a church activity will that meet the burden of "no longer free"?

You haven't answered my question.

Regarding studying it out, try the googles. In a few seconds you can see that there are fees for weddings and funerals.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/feb/07/church-of-england-marri ag e-funeral

Oh, so you're an even bigger idiot than I thought.

In Christianity, a church service is a formalized period of communal worship, often but not exclusively occurring on Sunday, or Saturday in the case of those churches practicing seventh-day Sabbatarianism. The church service is the gathering together of Christians to be taught the "Word of God" (the Christian Bible) and encouraged in their faith.


Ok, well it seems you are familiar with Christianity, so you will understand that baptism is considered in some sects a requirement to join the church guess what?  There is a fee for that.

How is this not entering a contract?

In order to join, you have to pay.
 
2013-08-26 05:38:02 PM

morgantx: In the Mormon church


That's like judging all churches based on the "church" of scientology.  You might as well say Dr Pepper is bad for you, therefore all doctors are bad.
 
2013-08-26 05:41:03 PM

no 5th av. in Billings: Ok, well it seems you are familiar with Christianity, so you will understand that baptism is considered in some sects a requirement to join the church guess what?  There is a fee for that.


Yeah, because no church does free baptisms...
 
2013-08-26 05:42:08 PM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: morgantx: In the Mormon church

That's like judging all churches based on the "church" of scientology.  You might as well say Dr Pepper is bad for you, therefore all doctors are bad.


I won't disagree with you. They're much more open about their church dues than some people. My point here is that these churches (Mormons, Scientologists, etc.) are allowed to charge money for spiritual "blessings". They're legally permitted to tell you that if you don't pay them, you will be (or remain) "cursed".

If this woman had done the reasonable thing and incorporated as a church and called it "pastoral counseling", she wouldn't be having this problem.

/I work as an online psychic.
//Also an ordained minister.
///Pastoral counseling FTW!
 
2013-08-26 05:44:00 PM
BraveNewCheneyWorld:

Ok, I see that all of my examples would be considered optional, not required to participate in "services" in the context you have provided. Services having more than one meaning. Wow. You got me.
Good thing all religions function exactly like the one you cited.
 
2013-08-26 06:04:46 PM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: DarkVader: They're all essentially doing the same thing, telling people lies in order to extract money from them.

Church is free, your comparison is invalid.


Ok, I get it now. That comparison is invalid because church is free, except for when it isn't. And if they extract money from you, that doesn't matter because "services" are still free.

Yeah, totally different from psychics.
 
2013-08-26 06:52:37 PM

no 5th av. in Billings: BraveNewCheneyWorld:

Ok, I see that all of my examples would be considered optional, not required to participate in "services" in the context you have provided. Services having more than one meaning. Wow. You got me.
Good thing all religions function exactly like the one you cited.


So, the only way they could make you happy is if they're naked and starving in the street?
 
2013-08-26 07:16:09 PM
No, I just saw your statement, thought it was stupid. I don't have a dog in this fight. Just your dumb statement, and my boredom.
Girlfriend is out of town, and it is raining here today. Nobody to argue with. Actually, I should thank you. My day went by quicker, possibly at your expense.
 
2013-08-26 07:39:21 PM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: no 5th av. in Billings: BraveNewCheneyWorld:

Ok, I see that all of my examples would be considered optional, not required to participate in "services" in the context you have provided. Services having more than one meaning. Wow. You got me.
Good thing all religions function exactly like the one you cited.

So, the only way they could make you happy is if they're naked and starving in the street?


I would prefer they legitimize psychic readings. Call it religion, afford it all the protections of any other religious organization. If people choose to give them money, great. Genuinely, I was just attacking your assertion that attending church is free, so no parallels could be drawn between it and a for profit entity. I felt that was a blatantly ignorant thing to say, and I wanted to see you defend it.

Instead, you attacked me, then changed your argument.
 
2013-08-26 08:12:43 PM
no 5th av. in Billings:

Instead, you attacked me, then changed your argument.

www.frontroomcinema.com
 
2013-08-26 08:43:54 PM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: no 5th av. in Billings:

Instead, you attacked me, then changed your argument.

[400x400 from http://www.frontroomcinema.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Film-Project or.jpeg image 400x400]


touchè
 
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