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(New York Daily News)   California man kills mom and burns house before going on tractor rampage. Thank God the cops had a tank to stop him   (nydailynews.com) divider line 114
    More: Obvious, Ryan Carnan, Officers Call, mothers  
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7443 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 Aug 2013 at 4:30 AM (51 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-08-25 11:59:49 PM
the heroic actions of the officers involved cannot be understated,

Not only can their actions here be understated, the officers shouldn't even be named by their own request. They were just cops doing their job, ma'am.

But no, California isn't that classy. Of course they're all heroes and we should totally forget this is the same state where LAPD officers lit up two unarmed women with more than 100 rounds while looking for one giant black man armed to the teeth and driving a totally different vehicle, taze children and the elderly, steal people's cameras, and mostly sit around and write traffic tickets to meet quotas just because they did their job for once.
 
2013-08-26 12:19:42 AM
That's not a tank.
 
2013-08-26 12:21:06 AM

violentsalvation: That's not a tank.


Might as well be. What do civilians have that can stop it?
 
2013-08-26 12:22:30 AM

violentsalvation: That's not a tank.


of course. just like the police are not an army now. got it.
 
2013-08-26 12:30:58 AM
Fair enough.
 
2013-08-26 12:38:30 AM

doglover: the heroic actions of the officers involved cannot be understated,

Not only can their actions here be understated, the officers shouldn't even be named by their own request. They were just cops doing their job, ma'am.

But no, California isn't that classy. Of course they're all heroes and we should totally forget this is the same state where LAPD officers lit up two unarmed women with more than 100 rounds while looking for one giant black man armed to the teeth and driving a totally different vehicle, taze children and the elderly, steal people's cameras, and mostly sit around and write traffic tickets to meet quotas just because they did their job for once.


So because some officers make mistakes or abuse their power we shouldn't appreciate those that do their job well?
 
2013-08-26 12:57:07 AM

TuteTibiImperes: we shouldn't appreciate those that do their job well?



Sure the tractor detail is a bit unusual, but shooting the crazy guy with the gun is what police are supposed to do. Stopping crimes in progress is the only job police have that's worth a damn. They're not heroes for putting down the ticket pad and ceasing their extortion of drivers for 20 minutes to go stop a real crime, they're adequate.
 
2013-08-26 02:15:22 AM

some_beer_drinker: violentsalvation: That's not a tank.

of course. just like the police are not an army now. got it.


It must be fun to be able to just call something whatever you want it to be, and think that turns it into that thing.

Police wear Kevlar? welp...they're an army.

armored car looks scary? guess that makes it a tank.

women won't touch you? They must be lesbians.

your dog ignores you? I suppose it's a cat.
 
2013-08-26 04:33:08 AM
AMERICA!
 
2013-08-26 04:33:15 AM
i1.ytimg.com
 
2013-08-26 04:37:23 AM
The militarization of the police is only Fascism when Schrub is the POTUS its nothing to see move along not that a D is potus.
 
2013-08-26 04:39:52 AM

log_jammin: some_beer_drinker: violentsalvation: That's not a tank.

of course. just like the police are not an army now. got it.

It must be fun to be able to just call something whatever you want it to be, and think that turns it into that thing.

Police wear Kevlar? welp...they're an army.

armored car looks scary? guess that makes it a tank.



army:  a large armed group: a trained or armed fighting force

Sounds like today's cops.

tank: an enclosed heavily armed and armored combat vehicle that moves on tracks

Oh, you got him!  That  enclosed heavily armed and armored combat vehicle doesn't move on tracks!
 
2013-08-26 04:41:07 AM

doglover: violentsalvation: That's not a tank.

Might as well be. What do civilians have that can stop it?


Molotov Cocktails.
 
2013-08-26 04:43:08 AM
www.damninteresting.com
 
2013-08-26 04:44:15 AM
 
2013-08-26 04:54:26 AM

log_jammin: some_beer_drinker: violentsalvation: That's not a tank.

of course. just like the police are not an army now. got it.

It must be fun to be able to just call something whatever you want it to be, and think that turns it into that thing.

Police wear Kevlar? welp...they're an army.

armored car looks scary? guess that makes it a tank.

women won't touch you? They must be lesbians.

your dog ignores you? I suppose it's a cat.


It's an armored personnel carrier, Mr Pedantic.
Just the thing that a "not-army" needs to patrol a civilian neighborhood.
 
2013-08-26 04:57:32 AM
Police had responded to the home once before in 2008 for a mental health call.

As someone with a family member who has been picked up, and ultimately released by police, after she threatened to kill someone and was diagnosed as psychotic with homicidal tendencies, I dread being mentioned in an article like this one someday.

If I was religious I'd be praying for the surviving brother.
 
2013-08-26 04:59:04 AM
Yeah it's a good think they had that 'tank' so they could shoot this crazy kid off of his open cab tractor.
 
2013-08-26 05:02:04 AM

sendtodave: army:  a large armed group: a trained or armed fighting force

Sounds like today's cops.


of course it sounds like today's cops to you. You're they type who likes to make up their own definitions to make things fit their beliefs

sendtodave: heavily armed


what's it armed with again?

but anyway..

sendtodave: tank: an enclosed heavily armed and armored combat vehicle that moves on tracks


let me try one

Bus: an large enclosed vehicle designed to move people safely from location to location.

Guess it's really a bus.

WOW! Being intellectually dishonest is fun!
 
2013-08-26 05:04:47 AM

NutWrench: It's an armored personnel carrier, Mr Pedantic.


as I've just shown, it's actually  bus.

NutWrench: Just the thing that a "not-army" needs to patrol a civilian neighborhood.


because they are used to patrol civilian neighborhoods. got it.

I mean, I can't run down to mcdonalds without passing 3 or 4 of these things an a daily basis.
 
2013-08-26 05:07:09 AM

log_jammin: of course it sounds like today's cops to you. You're they type who likes to make up their own definitions to make things fit their beliefs


Wait, are you making the argument that civilian police forces haven't become more militarized?

I gotta hear this.
 
2013-08-26 05:07:13 AM
All snark aside -- what is that vehicle? It is pretty awesome. I'm sure the folks of that neighborhood are feeling the love f
 
2013-08-26 05:10:09 AM
haha ... stupid phone ... or user ...

*for the local SWAT team. I wouldn't want to be on the wrong side of the team with that vehicle and their 'military' equipment, but daaaang it would be sweet to see it rolling down the road after the bad guys.
 
2013-08-26 05:12:26 AM

sendtodave: Wait, are you making the argument that civilian police forces haven't become more militarized?

I gotta hear this.


define "more militarized".

If your definition is assault rifles, Kevlar helmets, and bulletproof vests. Then yes they have become more militarized.....just like the public has.

But your question is just a deflection since you didn't say "more militarized", you said "an army".
 
2013-08-26 05:14:04 AM

log_jammin: NutWrench: It's an armored personnel carrier, Mr Pedantic.

as I've just shown, it's actually  bus.

NutWrench: Just the thing that a "not-army" needs to patrol a civilian neighborhood.

because they are used to patrol civilian neighborhoods. got it.

I mean, I can't run down to mcdonalds without passing 3 or 4 of these things an a daily basis.


You're probably just seeing the civilian version.  You need something like that to take your 5 year old to school, you know.
 
2013-08-26 05:15:27 AM

khhsdude: The quarterback is toast!


Bah!  Beat me to it.
 
2013-08-26 05:15:30 AM

MutantMotherMouse: All snark aside -- what is that vehicle? It is pretty awesome. I'm sure the folks of that neighborhood are feeling the love f


it looks very similar to this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadillac_Gage_Commando
 
2013-08-26 05:17:55 AM

Mister Peejay: You're probably just seeing the civilian version.  You need something like that to take your 5 year old to school, you know.


yup. when my kids can drive I'll give them the Hummer so i can get one of those.

I hear they get great gas milage when used to patrol neighborhoods, so it'll make a great grocery getter.
 
2013-08-26 05:26:15 AM

log_jammin: MutantMotherMouse: All snark aside -- what is that vehicle? It is pretty awesome. I'm sure the folks of that neighborhood are feeling the love f

it looks very similar to this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadillac_Gage_Commando


Na its a civilian LEO version of the MOWAG Piranha.
 
2013-08-26 05:28:08 AM

Pribar: Na its a civilian LEO version of the MOWAG Piranha.


ah. thanks.
 
2013-08-26 05:35:36 AM

sendtodave: log_jammin: some_beer_drinker: violentsalvation: That's not a tank.

of course. just like the police are not an army now. got it.

It must be fun to be able to just call something whatever you want it to be, and think that turns it into that thing.

Police wear Kevlar? welp...they're an army.

armored car looks scary? guess that makes it a tank.


army:  a large armed group: a trained or armed fighting force

Sounds like today's cops.

tank: an enclosed heavily armed and armored combat vehicle that moves on tracks

Oh, you got him!  That  enclosed heavily armed and armored combat vehicle doesn't move on tracks!


Why do you hate the Second Amendment?
 
2013-08-26 05:55:18 AM
That's a real shame. He was kinda cute. I would have done him.
cdn.abclocal.go.com
 
2013-08-26 06:05:52 AM

log_jammin: MutantMotherMouse: All snark aside -- what is that vehicle? It is pretty awesome. I'm sure the folks of that neighborhood are feeling the love f

it looks very similar to this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadillac_Gage_Commando


Yup. The V-100 doesn't have a turret. Used alot in Vietnam.
Tanks have tracks subby. ;)
 
2013-08-26 06:19:24 AM

Pribar: log_jammin: MutantMotherMouse: All snark aside -- what is that vehicle? It is pretty awesome. I'm sure the folks of that neighborhood are feeling the love f

it looks very similar to this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadillac_Gage_Commando

Na its a civilian LEO version of the MOWAG Piranha.


Why do they need these?

To stop tractors?
 
2013-08-26 06:23:21 AM

sendtodave: log_jammin: of course it sounds like today's cops to you. You're they type who likes to make up their own definitions to make things fit their beliefs

Wait, are you making the argument that civilian police forces haven't become more militarized?

I gotta hear this.


I gotta hear why you think cops have been trained to fight? A SWAT team is the best of the best the cops have to offer and half the time those morons can't even get the house right when they kick down the door. Marines might not be the sharpest bulbs in the drawer when it comes to things like nuclear physics and microbiology, but they can read a farking map. They're also exclusively trained to combat other armed humans and have a whole boatload of better toys to choose from.

When you compare soldiers to cops, the only similarity is they both have uniforms.
 
2013-08-26 06:26:23 AM

sendtodave: Why do they need these?

To stop tractors?


why should they not have them? Do you have any information about them being misused?
 
2013-08-26 06:29:29 AM

doglover: violentsalvation: That's not a tank.

Might as well be. What do civilians have that can stop it?


Budget authority, if they remember they have the balls to use it.

/so, nothing, really.
 
2013-08-26 06:36:08 AM
You just don't bring a tractor to a tank fight.
s24.postimg.org
 
2013-08-26 06:38:15 AM
Should've used this:

JL421 Badonkadonk Tank
 
2013-08-26 06:44:09 AM

log_jammin: why should they not have them?


Why should they not have missile launchers or fully auto weapons?
 
2013-08-26 06:48:09 AM

ReverendJasen: log_jammin: why should they not have them?

Why should they not have missile launchers or fully auto weapons?


I asked a simple straight forward question about an item many police departments already have. can you answer the question or not?

why should they not have them? Do you have any information about them being misused?
 
2013-08-26 06:56:34 AM
Was it a 'tank'?  No.  It was an armored car.  Robust defense does not automatically mean 120mm smoothbore cannon, or 20mm cannon, TOW missiles, smoke dispersal or the myraid of other weapon and defensive systems found on explicitly military weapons.

Are the police an 'army'?  Simple qualities of being uniformed, armed, and trained do not automatically make something a military organization.  Legal mandate and practical use of the organization actually 'do' matter.

Unless there's been a vast sea change among law enforcement entities... I'ma guess that these vehicles are the shiny toy broken out once in a blue moon, with day-to-day activities being conducted with the crown-vic, charger, taurus police variants.
 
2013-08-26 06:57:38 AM

doglover: TuteTibiImperes: we shouldn't appreciate those that do their job well?


Sure the tractor detail is a bit unusual, but shooting the crazy guy with the gun is what police are supposed to do. Stopping crimes in progress is the only job police have that's worth a damn. They're not heroes for putting down the ticket pad and ceasing their extortion of drivers for 20 minutes to go stop a real crime, they're adequate.


This.
 
2013-08-26 07:00:20 AM

log_jammin: why should they not have them?


Because they're expensive and pretty much useless and the LAPD are the last people in the world I'd trust with a pair of scissors that didn't have blunted tips let alone light armor, so even having ONE of these things in the entire state owned by any police department at all is a risk I'm not willing to take. There could be some kind of inter-department vehicle pool or something and the LAPD could eventually lay hands on it then there WILL be a story about abuse.

But aside from that if the cops stopped writing traffic tickets and kicking in the wrong door and shooting innocent people and pets, y'know basically were good cops instead of bad people, then you're right they could totally have one of these because they'd be clearing ganglands and fortified warehouses. As it is, they could make do with a bus with screens over the windows to stop bricks.
 
2013-08-26 07:02:35 AM

doglover: Because they're expensive and pretty much useless


uh huh. ok.
 
2013-08-26 07:05:28 AM

log_jammin: why should they not have them?


No reasons.  They should be given anything they ask for.  How else would they take out wackjobs on tractors?  Just think if they had access to mortars... could've just dropped a couple of those on the guy from half a mile away and ended it even faster.
I trust them implicitly.
 
2013-08-26 07:06:44 AM

log_jammin: ReverendJasen: log_jammin: why should they not have them?

Why should they not have missile launchers or fully auto weapons?

I asked a simple straight forward question about an item many police departments already have. can you answer the question or not?

why should they not have them? Do you have any information about them being misused?


Easy: because this isnt a war zone and the cops (despite their wet dreams of being in combat) aren't fighting the taliban.

Wtf do you need an APC for against a guy on an open-cab tractor? Grab a deer rifle, snipe him out the seat...game over.

The police don't need (and should NOT have) military equipment.

If non-cops are not allowed certain types of weapons/armor systems because they are not military, then the same rule should apply to cops...because they are not military.
 
2013-08-26 07:07:11 AM

log_jammin: doglover: Because they're expensive and pretty much useless

uh huh. ok.


When was the last time you saw them need light armor? This isn't Afghanistan. We're not at war.

This is just a toy they bought with taxpayer money.
 
2013-08-26 07:09:58 AM

The more you eat the more you fart: If non-cops are not allowed certain types of weapons/armor systems because they are not military, then the same rule should apply to cops...because they are not military.


I think you can buy one of those from Russia.

Link

But the cops don't need one.
 
2013-08-26 07:11:01 AM

doglover: log_jammin: doglover: Because they're expensive and pretty much useless

uh huh. ok.

When was the last time you saw them need light armor? This isn't Afghanistan. We're not at war.

This is just a toy they bought with taxpayer money.


Actually...even if we were at war...that's what the national guard is for.

Police are NOT military..they are law enforcement...and should NOT have access to or use military-style equipment to wage war against the populace.
 
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