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(Omaha World Herald)   Today, the Omaha World Herald decides to play "Let's make everyone feel guilty about not having children"   (omaha.com) divider line 80
    More: Fail, World-Herald, Let's, Omaha, University of Nebraska Medical Center  
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9950 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Aug 2013 at 6:53 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
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2013-08-25 06:59:02 PM  
7 votes:
Where's the guilt in this article?  Seems to me the author supports the idea that people should make this decision for themselves and shouldn't feel guilty about it.
2013-08-25 07:02:55 PM  
6 votes:
there is no shortage of unemployed/underemployed white trash morans cranking out ankle biters. the sooner we start spaying and neutering the masses the better.
2013-08-25 06:56:02 PM  
6 votes:
dont have kids

will never have kids.

very glad.

fark you for having kids.
2013-08-25 07:11:38 PM  
5 votes:
I'm 41 with two dogs and an SO.

I can see this argument from both sides. I do feel somewhat guilty for not having kids (but plan to adopt later btw) because somebody has to do the work of raising the next generation. To be callous, the next group of working taxpayers that will fund our future elderly asses (unless you're super successful and rich and don't need that). It seems like a pretty reasonable duty to society.

OTOH, it's a lot harder now to pull everything off. I REALLY wanted kids in my 30s and put a lot of effort into relationships. It doesn't always work out. If I had it to do all over again, I would work on kids/marriage first and career later.

But on the other, other hand...I do also have to admit that being a DINK (double income no kids) is fun too. Maybe the secret is to just be happy with what situation you land in and don't keep second guessing your decisions :)
2013-08-25 07:23:42 PM  
4 votes:
Didn't make it through the article. Don't really care what some columnist in Omaha thinks.

I can understand people in my own generation (and younger) not wanting to have kids. We're all pretty self-centered (can't think of a way to say that that doesn't sound negative, but there you have it). Our childhoods have extended way beyond what previous generations were able to get away with. Video games are the norm for people in their 20s and 30s (I'm in my 40s, and I've spent a solid part of this weekend playing Ingress and Baldur's Gate).

So, why would we want to have to put up with mewling, crying, attention-needing kids? I never wanted a kid, even through my mid 30s. Too much hassle. Too much responsibility. Not enough me time. Not enough time/energy for good sex. Who needs that?

But then I was talking to a neighbor who is in her 60s. Her mother died recently, and she has no husband or children. She looks miserable most of the time I see her. She says that there is nobody left in the world who cares if she lives or dies. She said she never expected that feeling. But now that she has no living family, she feels like a stranger on the planet.

I look at my parents. They are just breaking 70. Their brothers and sisters are dropping like flies. All they have left is me and my sister to care about them, visit them and give them any emotional support.

So, while I understand my friends and peers who think having kids is crazy, I don't know how many of them have really, honestly thought about the end of their lives (who spends time dwelling that anyway?) and considered what this world will feel like when everyone they love is dead, and they have no family left on the face of the earth.

But then, but the time we're that old, Diablo 12 is going to keep your mind off of all that crap, I'm betting.
2013-08-25 06:37:10 PM  
4 votes:

ecmoRandomNumbers: There are about 4 billion surplus people on this planet.


Evil eugenics Guidestone-worshipping bullshiat.
2013-08-25 08:43:48 PM  
3 votes:

profplump: Witness99: if not have our own children

If we stopped treating children like property and instead recognized them as full-fledged citizens in their own right, with their own claim to societal resources, this wouldn't be a problem. Assisting in child rearing is something that everyone would do by paying taxes in working in child-support jobs and volunteer positions. But as it stands we hold at most 2 people responsible for essentially 100% of each child's rearing tasks and expenses and we teach parents to refuse help from others on the basis of insufficient genetic relationship.


Actually, in the U.S., big chunks of the federal and state tax codes (deductions and funding schools via property tax come to mind) are 1) dedicated to helping pay for kids, and 2) born by those WITHOUT kids.

Not complaining, just saying.  Kids ARE important, but don't pretend those of us without them don't chip in as well.
2013-08-25 08:02:48 PM  
3 votes:
We tend to speak of going child-free (or is it childless?) in hushed tones, mainly to people who we suspect may share our point of view.

Its not 'Chlidless' you sans-soul ginger. Childless (like homeless) implies a lack of something. Childfree is a choice.
2013-08-25 07:49:10 PM  
3 votes:
Got kids. Happy with them. Lots of friends have kids. Lots of friends don't. Its not for everybody. I'm a firm believer in the general principle that "If you don't want it, then you can't have any." If you don't want children, you should not have them. If people want 'em, great. If not, cool.
mjg
2013-08-25 07:36:07 PM  
3 votes:
Sex is not for procreation.

/there. said it.
2013-08-25 07:19:55 PM  
3 votes:
I am turning 40 this year. I haven't just decided not to birth any babies, I got myself "fixed".

Never.gonna.happen.

I don't feel guilty, I don't feel proud, I am just grateful I live in a time and place that affords me the choice. Not everyone has that.
2013-08-25 07:12:37 PM  
3 votes:

KeithLM: Where's the guilt in this article?  Seems to me the author supports the idea that people should make this decision for themselves and shouldn't feel guilty about it.


Subtard was just using Fark's hatred of kids for an easy green. Fark subtard in the ass with a broken, rusty pitchfork.
2013-08-25 07:05:29 PM  
3 votes:
They can't make me feel guilty for something I've never wanted.  It's like trying to make me feel guilty for not eating beets.  Not possible.
2013-08-25 06:08:29 PM  
3 votes:
How 'bout we try getting global population to a sustainable level? There are about 4 billion surplus people on this planet. I'm not saying I'm not one of them.
2013-08-25 05:48:13 PM  
3 votes:
I have dogs. Does that count for anything?
2013-08-26 03:01:36 PM  
2 votes:
I have not ever once in my life wanted to raise a child. I'm now 42. I'm not going to spin the wheel thinking "well gosh, maybe I'll change my mind once I have one". You can't take those things back to the store for a refund.
2013-08-25 11:28:15 PM  
2 votes:
I don't have kids. I am in fact sterile, now. And I put up with endless amounts of crap about it at work. Coworkers trying to set me up, people getting shocked when I say I'm never having kids. "You don't know that!" "You'll change your mind!" One guy gave me so much crap this spring I had to take it to supervision because he would not shut it down.

Look, I'm pretty sure it's best for people who don't like kids to not have them, and I'd really appreciate it if society would ease back on the pressure. There are lots and LOTS of crappy parents out there who should have never, EVER had children but felt like they had to. Almost half the pregnancies in the US aren't planned and that is not a good thing. Kids should only be born into homes that want them.

/aromantic cis straight chick
//every day a news story pops up that makes me glad I'm fixed
2013-08-25 11:10:38 PM  
2 votes:
If you want kids because you love kids, your focus is on the kid and you will probably be a decent parent.
If you are having kids so that someone will take care of you in your old age, I got news for you - They won't.
They'll have lives (and possibly kids) of their own and be too busy for you. Ask around - how many people do you know who spend significant time nursing an elder relative? How much time did they spend at an old folk home visiting an elder relative? How many were in a gathering surrounding a relative's death bed? Now compare that number with the number of elderly in rest homes, hospices, and nursing homes.

My grandparents moved to Arizona a couple decades before they died. We visited a couple times, but no, we did not support my grandparents in their old age. They did that with the money they had saved up over their lifetimes. You need to plan to support yourself in your old age and not plan to be a leach on your kids. If the only reason you have kids is to leach off them later in life, you will not be a parent worthy of their time or money when you get old.
2013-08-25 10:10:37 PM  
2 votes:
I knew when I was about 15 that I didn't want to be the dad.  Fifty now.  I like to do what I want to do when I want to do it.  Never felt a moment of guilt.

/ 7 sisters and one brother


// More nieces and nephews than I can keep track of


/// Unless it's a mass suicide, everyone dies alone
2013-08-25 10:08:07 PM  
2 votes:
No one can know what the future holds.  So all the people who have kids with the idea that they are leaving a living breathing legacy blah blah blah, um, your kids may die relatively soon after you do.   They may kill themselves, OD on drugs, get hit by a bus, die as a victim of crime, etc.

You and I live and do what we do, and that's it.   If I die childless then I have left as much in this world as the person who had 8 kids, because the lives of those 8 kids are not guaranteed and there's no telling if any of the ones who do live will contribute positively or negatively.   When you die you don't know if you left anything in the future for humanity.  This is why if contributing to humanity means that much to you, you need to do it yourself while you're alive in the here and now.

As far as providing future workers and such, it's not necessary.   Humans overall have hit critical mass and barring some catastrophe, no individuals need to worry about reproducing so as do their part to send in more reinforcements.   Those reinforcements are coming in whether anyone wants them to or not.
2013-08-25 10:05:56 PM  
2 votes:
I'd impregnate that.
spacebison.com
2013-08-25 10:04:07 PM  
2 votes:
2013-08-25 10:01:41 PM  
2 votes:
The purpose of adults is not to produce children, the purpose of children is to produce adults.
2013-08-25 09:34:35 PM  
2 votes:
I love this Fark thread. The self-absorbed come here to convince everyone (and themselves) why they've heroically declined to have kids.

1. No one cares why
2. Most of you didn't have a choice anyway.
3. Kids require lots of work and attention, things in short supply in your typical childless Farkers
4. It's not about you


Parents already know what it's like to be childless, to have lots of free time, sleeping in, extra cash, travel opportunities.
There is far more to life than that stuff.
2013-08-25 09:31:17 PM  
2 votes:

universebetween: dont have kids

will never have kids.

very glad.

fark you for having kids.


We had four kids.

They're awesome people.

Have five grandchildren (so far).

Glad you didn't procreate because you sound like a dick.
2013-08-25 08:51:51 PM  
2 votes:

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: Ideal number is 2 or 3 kids for a couple in a developed country. Replace yourself and your spouse and maybe have one more for good measure/replace the kids who die before procreating (drown, sick, poisoned, etc).
Breeding like rabbits, while fun, is what's done in the third world because 2/3 of those kids will die before procreating.


Why replace the kids who die?  What's wrong with slowly stepping down the population in a controlled manner until people have breathing room and resources again?
2013-08-25 08:02:41 PM  
2 votes:
i.chzbgr.com

Don't want kids?  Don't have 'em.
Want kids?  Have 'em.
Either way, you're just as special as the gazillion other people who have or don't have kids.

/Effing snowflakes
//People have have been "child-free" since forever.
///Get over yourselves.
2013-08-25 07:04:32 PM  
2 votes:

KeithLM: Where's the guilt in this article?  Seems to me the author supports the idea that people should make this decision for themselves and shouldn't feel guilty about it.


Yeah, the headline reflects more on subby than reality.  Seems like a even-handed article.
2013-08-25 07:03:34 PM  
2 votes:

SilentStrider: I have dogs. Does that count for anything?


Dogs count for everything.
IP
2013-08-25 06:57:38 PM  
2 votes:

SilentStrider: I have dogs. Does that count for anything?


I'm 52, with a wife and a cat. No guilt here!
2013-08-25 05:54:46 PM  
2 votes:
More anti gay propaganda from Christian 'pro family' groups.

They want to you procreate and have many children, then they turn around and push for stricter immigration laws that rip families apart.
2013-08-27 12:46:22 AM  
1 votes:

Quantum Apostrophe: Zebulon: I tried talking to a good friend of mine about my loss of faith and such a couple years ago. I quickly stopped once I realized that I was making him question his *own* faith, and I didn't want to drag him down to my level. I have thought about trying to go to some sort of counseling or treatment for depression, but I don't know how they would handle the "lack of faith" part. I don't want to start some sort of treatment only to have them tell me they can't help and I need to go talk to a priest or pastor.

Oh, you're not depressed, you're just an adult now. No sky daddy gives a crap about you. Boohoo. Find a hobby or something.


You just don't get it. I'm not just "Boo hoo, there is no sky daddy", I'm "Giving birth is BAD, since those kids are just going to die". I'm "It doesn't matter if you are good or evil, you all go to the same place". I'm "I might as well be a selfish asshole, since it doesn't matter anyway". I'm trying really, really hard to not just give up on good\/evil, and not just decide I can murder/steal/rape because it all DOESN'T farkING MATTER!!! If this life is ALL there is, then I should want EVERYTHING I can get my dirty little hands on, and the rest of you can all go fark YOURSELVES!!!

But I just CAN'T be that selfish. I CAN'T make myself give up. Even if NOTHING I do matters long-term, it very much *does* matter short term. So even if I think that life is simply a waste of time, I *have* to try and be nice to people, because all of us are in this shiathole together, and I don't want to be the reason why anyone else's brief life was shtty. Like I said, it might not matter long-term, but it does matter to ME. *cry*
2013-08-26 10:21:24 PM  
1 votes:

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: Ideal number is 2 or 3 kids for a couple in a developed country. Replace yourself and your spouse and maybe have one more for good measure/replace the kids who die before procreating (drown, sick, poisoned, etc).
Breeding like rabbits, while fun, is what's done in the third world because 2/3 of those kids will die before procreating.


If each couple has 0 to 5 kids, the average can still be 2.1 per family. Lifestyles vary, life goals vary.

I'm not worried about the Idiocracy problem, since except for disabling conditions, smarts are much more determined by nurture than by nature. Nor am I worried about unequal distribution of wealth, provided that we fund schools adequately. Any loved, wanted and well educated poor kid will be better prepared for adult life than a semi-neglected, but materially pampered child of upper class professionals. Not that those are the only two options. Basically, disparate family sizes are okay, so long as people make the choices that are right for them. It evens out on the whole.
2013-08-26 04:08:13 PM  
1 votes:

dickfreckle: FunkOut: Ah, there's nothing so enjoyable as people who had kids and people whose chose not to have kids both telling everyone how this makes them special and better than the other side.

Er, I've never known anyone who deliberately doesn't have kids to act as if it "makes them special."


You don't spend much time around Fark then? I also personally know people who say things like "Ugh, kids are so horrible, they take up all the time and energy and money I could use for video games and beer and acting like a teenager in my 30s and 40s."
2013-08-26 02:55:26 PM  
1 votes:

Nabb1: grumpfuff: Nabb1: pla: Nabb1 : When you're old and dependent on the next generation of workers to provide for your care, just remember you called them "parasites," and try to appreciate the irony before you die. Alone.

Thanks to not having kids, I'll most likely die with a positive net worth (though I'll do my damnedest to hit zero the day I die, make no mistake!). I'll have pretty young nurses wiping my arse once I can no longer handle that task.

And compared to what exactly? Kids grudgingly dragged in to the home for their monthly visit to grandma, so she can fail to remember their names and everyone has a good laugh and she doesn't even remember last month's visit next month?

Thanks, but no thanks. Glurge aside, I sincerely hope I still have the presence of mind when the doctors diagnose me with something fatal, so I can blow through the rest of my savings on hookers and blow, culminating with a swan-dive into a live volcano. You can have your crappy monthly "family time" at the home. I'll either go out with a bang, or won't know the difference for drooling on myself, thankyouverymuch.

/ Enjoy your choices.
// I will.  Or won't know the difference - Same thing.

If no one had kids, where would these "pretty young nurses" come from? Apart from your fantasies, we are actually in agreement - you aren't cut out for parenthood. Too many people like you who shouldn't have kids do, and the kids suffer for it. So, you've probably made the right choice. You can't be totally self-absorbed and be a good parent,

Considering how many people want kids as opposed to those who don't, that's a rather silly question.

As to the rest of your post..you sound bitter.

On the contrary. I'm not bitter at all. I think people like you would be terrible parents. I just find it funny that it's totally lost on you that one day you will essentially be a "parasite" - the creepy old lecher with no bowel control the nurses talk about. I admire people who are aware they aren't cut out for t ...


Whoever said I don't want kids? I was just pointing out you seem very angry at people who choose not to.
2013-08-26 07:58:48 AM  
1 votes:

Zebulon: I tried talking to a good friend of mine about my loss of faith and such a couple years ago. I quickly stopped once I realized that I was making him question his *own* faith, and I didn't want to drag him down to my level. I have thought about trying to go to some sort of counseling or treatment for depression, but I don't know how they would handle the "lack of faith" part. I don't want to start some sort of treatment only to have them tell me they can't help and I need to go talk to a priest or pastor.


Oh, you're not depressed, you're just an adult now. No sky daddy gives a crap about you. Boohoo. Find a hobby or something.
2013-08-26 06:39:33 AM  
1 votes:

Zebulon: I don't want to start some sort of treatment only to have them tell me they can't help and I need to go talk to a priest or pastor.


I also don't want to have to go to work if it doesn't lead to some sort of a career. I don't want to go on a first date if it's not going to lead to a marriage. I don't want to go to the vending machine because it might steal my money (a legitimate concern in my area!).

Total loss of interest in being is a pretty serious thing dude. You should get that checked out, even if it takes going to more than one source. I think that with the proper help, you will regain your enjoyment and purpose in life, and realize that you are a worthwhile person. Good luck.
2013-08-26 05:42:01 AM  
1 votes:

lostcat: Zebulon: Aside from the fact that I am not currently in a relationship with a woman, and thus have no capability of producing children, I will never have unprotected sex with a woman again in my lifetime. Why? Because I feel that life is pointless.

I don't want to sound flip, but you might consider talking to someone about your feelings. I kind of remember going through a phase like that when I was in my early 30s and my first long-term relationship had fallen apart.

Also, never say never. You'd be surprised how radically different you can think about things, even in a relatively short span of time.


I tried talking to a good friend of mine about my loss of faith and such a couple years ago. I quickly stopped once I realized that I was making him question his *own* faith, and I didn't want to drag him down to my level. I have thought about trying to go to some sort of counseling or treatment for depression, but I don't know how they would handle the "lack of faith" part. I don't want to start some sort of treatment only to have them tell me they can't help and I need to go talk to a priest or pastor.
2013-08-26 02:46:40 AM  
1 votes:

lostcat: Didn't make it through the article. Don't really care what some columnist in Omaha thinks.

I can understand people in my own generation (and younger) not wanting to have kids. We're all pretty self-centered (can't think of a way to say that that doesn't sound negative, but there you have it). Our childhoods have extended way beyond what previous generations were able to get away with. Video games are the norm for people in their 20s and 30s (I'm in my 40s, and I've spent a solid part of this weekend playing Ingress and Baldur's Gate).

So, why would we want to have to put up with mewling, crying, attention-needing kids? I never wanted a kid, even through my mid 30s. Too much hassle. Too much responsibility. Not enough me time. Not enough time/energy for good sex. Who needs that?

But then I was talking to a neighbor who is in her 60s. Her mother died recently, and she has no husband or children. She looks miserable most of the time I see her. She says that there is nobody left in the world who cares if she lives or dies. She said she never expected that feeling. But now that she has no living family, she feels like a stranger on the planet.

I look at my parents. They are just breaking 70. Their brothers and sisters are dropping like flies. All they have left is me and my sister to care about them, visit them and give them any emotional support.

So, while I understand my friends and peers who think having kids is crazy, I don't know how many of them have really, honestly thought about the end of their lives (who spends time dwelling that anyway?) and considered what this world will feel like when everyone they love is dead, and they have no family left on the face of the earth.

But then, but the time we're that old, Diablo 12 is going to keep your mind off of all that crap, I'm betting.


Just going to throw this out there.

 You can play video games with your kids.

 The mewling crying phase ends pretty quickly in all honesty (it doesn't *feel* that way sometimes, but suddenly one day you look back and it's gone).

 This evening my husband flew IL2 (an old favorite of his) with our 9 year old son. Even with the realism cranked up our son flies plenty good enough to play with him (granted our son is an airplane nut too. ;) )

 He also joins us playing other games as well, everything from co-op dungeon crawlers to racing games. He's quite good and so it's a lot of fun!

/used to listen to the weekly WoW family meeting at a breakfast house back in the day, where the family of 4 discussed strategy over pancakes and eggs.
2013-08-26 12:51:28 AM  
1 votes:

Godscrack: More anti gay propaganda from Christian 'pro family' groups.

They want to you procreate and have many children, then they turn around and push for stricter immigration laws that rip families apart.


Holy shiat did you not bother reading the article...   But then again, political people are always moronic extremists and fairly retarded in their thinking. Sheep never bother doing anything with initiative. That article was fairly neutral and merely examined a trend. Idiot.

Anyways, I never bothered having kids myself. Didn't see a point really. More than enough people in the world and frankly that 1 or 2% of the time that are great experiences come at a cost of 99 to 98% of the time that are awful ones and needless hardship and annoyance. Want a kid? Steal a sibling's or friend's for a few hours or even a day... You will be disabused of the notion of wanting to own it yourself.

As a small business owner, I've seen it firsthand, having children is the death of all ambition. Something about becoming/being a parent turns your employees into very lackluster, terrible assets with no verve, imagination, or ambition beyond being schlubs and getting by everyday without effort. I make it a point to hire young people or single, middle-aged folk to work for me. They are hungry and do well.
2013-08-26 12:08:12 AM  
1 votes:
I just had a baby within the past month. My husband is one of those people who always wanted to be a father. I'm one of those people who's been ambivalent toward becoming a mother. Caring for a newborn is the most stressful thing I've ever done in my life. It's more stressful than my comprehensive exams; it's more stressful than when the economy tanked and both of us were working full-time jobs and still not making quite enough money. I'm still reeling from hormones and sleep deprivation, and I'm breastfeeding, so I'm literally being drained of my energy--and here's a helpless human being who demands all my attention. It's tough. I tell myself I made the right decision, but that's mostly because there's really no going back now.

So, I respect people who decide to have kids. I respect people who decide not to have kids. It's not for everyone. I'm not entirely convinced it's for me...but my little guy is really adorable, and he's going to smile someday.
2013-08-25 11:52:17 PM  
1 votes:
I have a simply brilliant idea.

We should spay and neuter the Quiverfull folks.

From orbit.
2013-08-25 11:16:33 PM  
1 votes:
I've had a few drinks so I'm gonna get a little politically incorrect here. I would like to see productive members of society reproducing at the same level as those who are not productive,

Unfortunately, the act of having kids, and raising them properly, makes a productive person less productive. You can't stay at the same level of productivity while giving a child the time and energy they need. So you either need to educate the children of unproductive parents (ie spend money on schooling) while letting the productive people produce, or accept a reduction of GDP.
2013-08-25 10:54:01 PM  
1 votes:
What's that? I didn't hear you over the sound of me having a day off tomorrow, and having no responsibility to watch a kid.
2013-08-25 10:46:26 PM  
1 votes:
As a mom of four well adjusted, much loved, intelligent children, I'm honored to have been able to take your place in contributing to the future population zero growth policies.

Thanks again for your patronage.
2013-08-25 10:44:36 PM  
1 votes:
Can we just say it's not a good idea to shame anyone for their life choices (unless they choose to be a Scientologist)?
2013-08-25 10:42:26 PM  
1 votes:
I have one baby. It is a joyous pain in the ass. There is something amazing about creating a little poop machine replica of yourself. Having freedom is cool, but so is having a family.
2013-08-25 10:14:41 PM  
1 votes:

rpm: Massagonist: Don't want kids?  Don't have 'em.
Want kids?  Have 'em.
Either way, you're just as special as the gazillion other people who have or don't have kids.

I think this needs to be qualified some.

If you want kids, have them. Don't have them just because it's what's done; don't confuse that with wanting.


I think it needs to be amended again. If you want kids, have them, but follow zero growth rules: one per person.

I don't have any, never wanted any, and have never for one second felt the least bit guilty about it.
2013-08-25 10:00:54 PM  
1 votes:
www.replikultes.net
2013-08-25 09:51:39 PM  
1 votes:

Witness99: profplump: Witness99: if not have our own children

If we stopped treating children like property and instead recognized them as full-fledged citizens in their own right, with their own claim to societal resources, this wouldn't be a problem. Assisting in child rearing is something that everyone would do by paying taxes in working in child-support jobs and volunteer positions. But as it stands we hold at most 2 people responsible for essentially 100% of each child's rearing tasks and expenses and we teach parents to refuse help from others on the basis of insufficient genetic relationship.

Exactly. For example, my gay male friends that complain about paying the "school tax" cause they will never have kids. Very short sighted.


I'd tell you to tell them to eat a dick, but it's too late.

I didn't know anybody unironically said that shiat.  People really think it's okay for everybody else's kids to be dumb and inherit the world someday for the sake of, what?  A little money they're going to blow on more plastic Chinese crap from the mall?  Tell your gay friends to enjoy all the extra money they're not spending on kids otherwise and remind them they live in a society.
2013-08-25 09:50:52 PM  
1 votes:

Mad_Radhu: Really at the end of the day, it all comes down to energy production. If we ever manage to crack the technology behind affordable controlled nuclear fusion, we could probably triple the population of the world with no ill effects because we'd have cleanish power and more than enough energy for increased food production and massive desalination projects. At the end of the day, it really comes down to energy, and another quantum leap in energy production capability similar to the beginning of the petroleum age could change the game completely in terms of the carrying capacity of the Earth.


I tend to think that way too, but I think we'll need some major social changes to go along with that. The corruption, incompetence, and waste at the municipal level are appalling. We need to realize that not everyone needs to work, especially when that "work" can be done by four cells in a spreadsheet.

We'll need to have massive changes especially if we don't find this magical energy source.
2013-08-25 09:45:11 PM  
1 votes:
When I was a youth counselor taking care of five- and six-year-olds, I truly loved my kids, and I loved teaching and playing with them. I would have taken a bullet for any one of them, no questions asked. But I got to give them back at the end of the day. As for kids of my own, no freakin' way.
2013-08-25 09:40:28 PM  
1 votes:

pla: Feel bad?  Why the hell would this make me feel bad?  If anything, it justifies my decision to remain free of any parasites that incubate for 18+ years.

I can spend my money how I want, spend my free time how I want, sleep in on weekends, collect things without someone (like me as a child - A real terror!) breaking/burning/burying them... I occasionally need to sand and repaint the bannister that the cats (only two, not a "crazy cat person") have decided to use as a scratching post, but no big deal, and at least they show little interest (unlike me has a child) in my power tools.

And Omaha World Herald just pointed out that a steadily increasing number of others in our massively overpopulated world have made the same decision.  Why should I feel bad again?

/ W00t!  DINKs FTW, baby!


Off-topic-ish:

Could you wrap the bannister with carpet where the cats like to scratch? My friend's mom did something like that for the one dining room table leg that the cats couldn't seem to resist. After the cats passed on they removed the cover and you'd never know cats scratched that leg daily.

/just a thought
//theirs was secured with lots of velcro
2013-08-25 09:30:42 PM  
1 votes:

Nabb1: pla: Nabb1 : When you're old and dependent on the next generation of workers to provide for your care, just remember you called them "parasites," and try to appreciate the irony before you die. Alone.

Thanks to not having kids, I'll most likely die with a positive net worth (though I'll do my damnedest to hit zero the day I die, make no mistake!). I'll have pretty young nurses wiping my arse once I can no longer handle that task.

And compared to what exactly? Kids grudgingly dragged in to the home for their monthly visit to grandma, so she can fail to remember their names and everyone has a good laugh and she doesn't even remember last month's visit next month?

Thanks, but no thanks. Glurge aside, I sincerely hope I still have the presence of mind when the doctors diagnose me with something fatal, so I can blow through the rest of my savings on hookers and blow, culminating with a swan-dive into a live volcano. You can have your crappy monthly "family time" at the home. I'll either go out with a bang, or won't know the difference for drooling on myself, thankyouverymuch.

/ Enjoy your choices.
// I will.  Or won't know the difference - Same thing.

If no one had kids, where would these "pretty young nurses" come from? Apart from your fantasies, we are actually in agreement - you aren't cut out for parenthood. Too many people like you who shouldn't have kids do, and the kids suffer for it. So, you've probably made the right choice. You can't be totally self-absorbed and be a good parent,


Considering how many people want kids as opposed to those who don't, that's a rather silly question.

As to the rest of your post..you sound bitter.
2013-08-25 09:23:45 PM  
1 votes:

Koodz: Why replace the kids who die?  What's wrong with slowly stepping down the population in a controlled manner until people have breathing room and resources again?


Resources are indeed an issue, but I think a lot of that can be taken care of by being smarter about how we use our resources and more sustainable with our energy production, so I don't think we really need THAT much population control to get things back to where the human race is sustainable.

As far as space goes, even in China there is plenty of space for people, with cities like this laying empty:

static5.businessinsider.com

The problem is that there just isn't a way to make a living in most of those places, so no one can afford to move in. Hell, if everyone was willing to live with urban population densities, you could fit a LOT of people on to the Earth:

media.treehugger.com

Really at the end of the day, it all comes down to energy production. If we ever manage to crack the technology behind affordable controlled nuclear fusion, we could probably triple the population of the world with no ill effects because we'd have cleanish power and more than enough energy for increased food production and massive desalination projects. At the end of the day, it really comes down to energy, and another quantum leap in energy production capability similar to the beginning of the petroleum age could change the game completely in terms of the carrying capacity of the Earth.
rka
2013-08-25 09:14:37 PM  
1 votes:

Nabb1: When you're old and dependent on the next generation of workers to provide for your care, just remember you called them "parasites," and try to appreciate the irony before you die. Alone.


You ever spent any time in an old-folks home?

People with kids, people without kids, doesn't matter. They are all equally miserable. Medical science can prolong life but it can't make it actually worth living in many cases.

You ever had the experience of caring for an elderly relative who is just hanging on enough to suck every resource that they had and even their children had dry in some mockery of "quality of life"?

Dying alone is not my fear. Watching my older relatives (including my parents in the alarmingly rapidly approaching futre) hang on until the bitter end is.
2013-08-25 09:08:30 PM  
1 votes:
A very happy dink home here. (Dual Income No Kids).
pla
2013-08-25 09:05:21 PM  
1 votes:
Nabb1 : When you're old and dependent on the next generation of workers to provide for your care, just remember you called them "parasites," and try to appreciate the irony before you die. Alone.

Thanks to not having kids, I'll most likely die with a positive net worth (though I'll do my damnedest to hit zero the day I die, make no mistake!). I'll have pretty young nurses wiping my arse once I can no longer handle that task.

And compared to what exactly? Kids grudgingly dragged in to the home for their monthly visit to grandma, so she can fail to remember their names and everyone has a good laugh and she doesn't even remember last month's visit next month?

Thanks, but no thanks. Glurge aside, I sincerely hope I still have the presence of mind when the doctors diagnose me with something fatal, so I can blow through the rest of my savings on hookers and blow, culminating with a swan-dive into a live volcano. You can have your crappy monthly "family time" at the home. I'll either go out with a bang, or won't know the difference for drooling on myself, thankyouverymuch.

/ Enjoy your choices.
// I will.  Or won't know the difference - Same thing.
2013-08-25 09:01:46 PM  
1 votes:

Somacandra: Got kids. Happy with them. Lots of friends have kids. Lots of friends don't. Its not for everybody. I'm a firm believer in the general principle that "If you don't want it, then you can't have any." If you don't want children, you should not have them. If people want 'em, great. If not, cool.


This.
2013-08-25 09:00:37 PM  
1 votes:
Don't understand the faux-guilt about not having kids. Everybody's got a persecution complex. Gotta explain that it's not due to fertility issues so you don't feel emasculated?

No, I don't have kids, but I am paying taxes that fund your kids' education. That's my "message to the future". You're welcome. Now don't fark them up and waste my investment.

/always wanted nephews
//got 3 of them
///happy
rpm
2013-08-25 08:40:19 PM  
1 votes:

Massagonist: Don't want kids?  Don't have 'em.
Want kids?  Have 'em.
Either way, you're just as special as the gazillion other people who have or don't have kids.


I think this needs to be qualified some.

If you want kids, have them. Don't have them just because it's what's done; don't confuse that with wanting.
2013-08-25 08:19:58 PM  
1 votes:

lostcat: Video games are the norm for people in their 20s and 30


In past generations video games did not exist in childhood. This comparison is pants-on-head ridiculous.

Both child and adults sing and dance for entertainment and have for generations. Is singing "childish" or "selfish"?

lostcat: Our childhoods have extended way beyond what previous generations were able to get away with.


No one is "getting away" with childhood. Until you reach the age of majority you have no legal influence over any significant of your life and you could be stuck with caretakers that are truly terrible toward you. Beyond that everyone is generally making the decisions they think are best given their personal values, knowledge, and perception. In pervious generations those "adult" decisions included things like chain smoking and segregation -- it's not clear to me how today's "extended childhood" (whatever the hell that means) is a worse outcome.
2013-08-25 08:03:20 PM  
1 votes:

lostcat: She looks miserable most of the time I see her. She says that there is nobody left in the world who cares if she lives or dies.


So someone who built their entire social structure around genetics is sad when her gene pool runs dry. You don't say.

If only there was some way to build relationships without a dependence on DNA. But we all know that's not possible.
2013-08-25 08:01:52 PM  
1 votes:
Too many people already, not selfish enough to pass along genetic defects, like sleeping in, screaming kids make me want to hurt things, and back hurts enough as it is.

/Wonder if there's a CF dating site yet?
2013-08-25 07:57:20 PM  
1 votes:

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: Ideal number is 2 or 3 kids for a couple in a developed country. Replace yourself and your spouse and maybe have one more for good measure/replace the kids who die before procreating (drown, sick, poisoned, etc).
Breeding like rabbits, while fun, is what's done in the third world because 2/3 of those kids will die before procreating.


I'm not sure about that.  If you think, if the population is declining, not sue to stress but merely due to low birth rates, then as time goes on, society needs to provide less everything as time goes on.  Family and societal wealth concentrates from one generation to the next instead of dissipating.

The reason corporate, religious and political leaders don't like it, is because a declining population means there is no 'stupid growth'.  Such as next year we will need 2% more drywall because the population is increasing. It's easy to become wealthy on the back of stupid growth because all you need to control, otherwise there is little risk or hard work involved.
2013-08-25 07:50:09 PM  
1 votes:

docilej: Average cost to raise a child: $241,000  You either have to be wealthy or on welfare to be able to afford that luxury


How much do you think welfare pays out?
2013-08-25 07:44:47 PM  
1 votes:
Just what the world needs...another person.
Average cost to raise a child: $241,000  You either have to be wealthy or on welfare to be able to afford that luxury. For your typical US taxpayer, children are a privilage that isn't in our salary grade.
2013-08-25 07:43:19 PM  
1 votes:

ecmoRandomNumbers: How 'bout we try getting global population to a sustainable level? There are about 4 billion surplus people on this planet. I'm not saying I'm not one of them.


And yet there are entire cities that can hold millions sitting empty in China. The world is a big place, and with some tweaks to make our energy and food production more sustainable we can probably maintain our current population without a ton of effort. It just takes the will to make the necessary changes in lifestyle.
2013-08-25 07:42:16 PM  
1 votes:
Godscrack More anti gay propaganda from Christian 'pro family' groups.
They want to you procreate and have many children, then they turn around and push for stricter immigration laws that rip families apart.


Perhaps you need to consider the demographic shift that will result from mass immigration from the third world.

Do you assume that foreign people who will outbreed you and refuse to assimilate in every other way will somehow still be pro-gay?

It's ok to be bloody-minded, but don't be short-sighted. The terrible truth is that Carlos and Bonita will actually treat you the way that you imagine Bob and Sue only wish to do.
2013-08-25 07:41:33 PM  
1 votes:

Peekoo: They can't make me feel guilty for something I've never wanted.  It's like trying to make me feel guilty for not eating beets.  Not possible.


Beets are very good for you. You should eat them.
2013-08-25 07:37:24 PM  
1 votes:
When i'm old ill be surrounded by grandkids and family.

Love is reason enough.
2013-08-25 07:37:05 PM  
1 votes:

lostcat: Didn't make it through the article. Don't really care what some columnist in Omaha thinks.

I can understand people in my own generation (and younger) not wanting to have kids. We're all pretty self-centered (can't think of a way to say that that doesn't sound negative, but there you have it). Our childhoods have extended way beyond what previous generations were able to get away with. Video games are the norm for people in their 20s and 30s (I'm in my 40s, and I've spent a solid part of this weekend playing Ingress and Baldur's Gate).

So, why would we want to have to put up with mewling, crying, attention-needing kids? I never wanted a kid, even through my mid 30s. Too much hassle. Too much responsibility. Not enough me time. Not enough time/energy for good sex. Who needs that?

But then I was talking to a neighbor who is in her 60s. Her mother died recently, and she has no husband or children. She looks miserable most of the time I see her. She says that there is nobody left in the world who cares if she lives or dies. She said she never expected that feeling. But now that she has no living family, she feels like a stranger on the planet.

I look at my parents. They are just breaking 70. Their brothers and sisters are dropping like flies. All they have left is me and my sister to care about them, visit them and give them any emotional support.

So, while I understand my friends and peers who think having kids is crazy, I don't know how many of them have really, honestly thought about the end of their lives (who spends time dwelling that anyway?) and considered what this world will feel like when everyone they love is dead, and they have no family left on the face of the earth.

But then, but the time we're that old, Diablo 12 is going to keep your mind off of all that crap, I'm betting.


I have thought about that a lot - what you said about your 60 yo neighbor with no family and feeling like a "stranger" on the planet.

However, we live in a time where it's more possible than ever to exist in a community that transcends immediate family. We're also members of hiking, tennis, partying and spiritual discussion groups we found online. Even if our romantic relationship ends, and even if I never do adopt and get to have the wonderful experience of children, my email inbox is still flooded with social activities! (That I have little time for, because I work too much). But you get my point. And there's always the Raelians LOL
2013-08-25 07:34:29 PM  
1 votes:
ihatebumperstickers.com
pla
2013-08-25 07:15:54 PM  
1 votes:
Feel bad?  Why the hell would this make me feel bad?  If anything, it justifies my decision to remain free of any parasites that incubate for 18+ years.

I can spend my money how I want, spend my free time how I want, sleep in on weekends, collect things without someone (like me as a child - A real terror!) breaking/burning/burying them... I occasionally need to sand and repaint the bannister that the cats (only two, not a "crazy cat person") have decided to use as a scratching post, but no big deal, and at least they show little interest (unlike me has a child) in my power tools.

And Omaha World Herald just pointed out that a steadily increasing number of others in our massively overpopulated world have made the same decision.  Why should I feel bad again?

/ W00t!  DINKs FTW, baby!
2013-08-25 07:13:42 PM  
1 votes:
I'd like to have twins, but not children, if you catch my drift and I think you do.
2013-08-25 07:10:48 PM  
1 votes:

KeithLM: Where's the guilt in this article?  Seems to me the author supports the idea that people should make this decision for themselves and shouldn't feel guilty about it.


This.   Not exactly a deep piece, but surprisingly well-written, and balanced.

Why all the hate, subby?  or are you just chasing that Green dragon?
2013-08-25 07:09:04 PM  
1 votes:
There's too many people in the world already, I'll not be contributing.
2013-08-25 07:07:26 PM  
1 votes:
Who cares about Omaha?
2013-08-25 07:03:37 PM  
1 votes:
Yeah, I would not be a good mother. I know it. The instincts are there, sort of, but they're not enough. Sometimes I do feel guilty about not providing my parents with grandkids, but then I remember that they seem pretty accepting of that.

So... No kids? No big deal. It's not like humanity is on the verge of extinction, or anything.
2013-08-25 06:59:57 PM  
1 votes:

universebetween: dont have kids

will never have kids.

very glad.

fark you for having kids.


I'm sure you say that to your parents every time you see them...

//no wait, you are right. Fark them for having kids!
 
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