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(Omaha World Herald)   Today, the Omaha World Herald decides to play "Let's make everyone feel guilty about not having children"   (omaha.com ) divider line
    More: Fail, World-Herald, Let's, Omaha, University of Nebraska Medical Center  
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9966 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Aug 2013 at 6:53 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



197 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-08-25 05:48:13 PM  
I have dogs. Does that count for anything?
 
2013-08-25 05:54:46 PM  
More anti gay propaganda from Christian 'pro family' groups.

They want to you procreate and have many children, then they turn around and push for stricter immigration laws that rip families apart.
 
2013-08-25 06:08:29 PM  
How 'bout we try getting global population to a sustainable level? There are about 4 billion surplus people on this planet. I'm not saying I'm not one of them.
 
2013-08-25 06:37:10 PM  

ecmoRandomNumbers: There are about 4 billion surplus people on this planet.


Evil eugenics Guidestone-worshipping bullshiat.
 
2013-08-25 06:53:09 PM  
FTFA:"I just thought, 'Nahhhhhhh,'" says Kacie, now 33."

Fail
 
2013-08-25 06:56:02 PM  
dont have kids

will never have kids.

very glad.

fark you for having kids.
 
2013-08-25 06:57:11 PM  
Thanks Omaha
 
IP
2013-08-25 06:57:38 PM  

SilentStrider: I have dogs. Does that count for anything?


I'm 52, with a wife and a cat. No guilt here!
 
2013-08-25 06:59:02 PM  
Where's the guilt in this article?  Seems to me the author supports the idea that people should make this decision for themselves and shouldn't feel guilty about it.
 
2013-08-25 06:59:25 PM  
The author is a 'ginger' and you know what that means.
 
2013-08-25 06:59:57 PM  

universebetween: dont have kids

will never have kids.

very glad.

fark you for having kids.


I'm sure you say that to your parents every time you see them...

//no wait, you are right. Fark them for having kids!
 
2013-08-25 07:00:45 PM  
Ideal number is 2 or 3 kids for a couple in a developed country. Replace yourself and your spouse and maybe have one more for good measure/replace the kids who die before procreating (drown, sick, poisoned, etc).
Breeding like rabbits, while fun, is what's done in the third world because 2/3 of those kids will die before procreating.
 
2013-08-25 07:02:55 PM  
there is no shortage of unemployed/underemployed white trash morans cranking out ankle biters. the sooner we start spaying and neutering the masses the better.
 
2013-08-25 07:03:34 PM  

SilentStrider: I have dogs. Does that count for anything?


Dogs count for everything.
 
2013-08-25 07:03:37 PM  
Yeah, I would not be a good mother. I know it. The instincts are there, sort of, but they're not enough. Sometimes I do feel guilty about not providing my parents with grandkids, but then I remember that they seem pretty accepting of that.

So... No kids? No big deal. It's not like humanity is on the verge of extinction, or anything.
 
2013-08-25 07:04:32 PM  

KeithLM: Where's the guilt in this article?  Seems to me the author supports the idea that people should make this decision for themselves and shouldn't feel guilty about it.


Yeah, the headline reflects more on subby than reality.  Seems like a even-handed article.
 
2013-08-25 07:05:11 PM  

red5ish: The author is a 'ginger' and you know what that means.


light pink nipples not nice brown ones
 
2013-08-25 07:05:29 PM  
They can't make me feel guilty for something I've never wanted.  It's like trying to make me feel guilty for not eating beets.  Not possible.
 
2013-08-25 07:05:37 PM  
"That Buford's a sly one; he already knows his A-B-C's."

sphotos-b-ord.xx.fbcdn.net

"Say that reminds me, how'd you get that kid so darn fast? Me and Dot went in to adopt on account a' somethin' went wrong with my semen, and they said we had to wait five years for a healthy white baby."
 
2013-08-25 07:06:29 PM  
How did the article try to make people feel guilty?

/ No kids
// But I read RTFA
/// Reading TFA is a guiltin' on Fark
 
2013-08-25 07:07:26 PM  
Who cares about Omaha?
 
2013-08-25 07:09:04 PM  
There's too many people in the world already, I'll not be contributing.
 
2013-08-25 07:10:25 PM  
I'd like a kid,but I'm running out of time and don't really feel like running out and making one with the first willing man I find.
 
2013-08-25 07:10:48 PM  

KeithLM: Where's the guilt in this article?  Seems to me the author supports the idea that people should make this decision for themselves and shouldn't feel guilty about it.


This.   Not exactly a deep piece, but surprisingly well-written, and balanced.

Why all the hate, subby?  or are you just chasing that Green dragon?
 
2013-08-25 07:11:12 PM  
Ah, there's nothing so enjoyable as people who had kids and people whose chose not to have kids both telling everyone how this makes them special and better than the other side.
 
2013-08-25 07:11:38 PM  
I'm 41 with two dogs and an SO.

I can see this argument from both sides. I do feel somewhat guilty for not having kids (but plan to adopt later btw) because somebody has to do the work of raising the next generation. To be callous, the next group of working taxpayers that will fund our future elderly asses (unless you're super successful and rich and don't need that). It seems like a pretty reasonable duty to society.

OTOH, it's a lot harder now to pull everything off. I REALLY wanted kids in my 30s and put a lot of effort into relationships. It doesn't always work out. If I had it to do all over again, I would work on kids/marriage first and career later.

But on the other, other hand...I do also have to admit that being a DINK (double income no kids) is fun too. Maybe the secret is to just be happy with what situation you land in and don't keep second guessing your decisions :)
 
2013-08-25 07:12:37 PM  

KeithLM: Where's the guilt in this article?  Seems to me the author supports the idea that people should make this decision for themselves and shouldn't feel guilty about it.


Subtard was just using Fark's hatred of kids for an easy green. Fark subtard in the ass with a broken, rusty pitchfork.
 
2013-08-25 07:13:00 PM  
If the birth rate declines, so will the rate of new insufferable pricks who make value judgments about others' parenting choices.  Matthew Hansen is concerned about this trend.
 
2013-08-25 07:13:42 PM  
I'd like to have twins, but not children, if you catch my drift and I think you do.
 
2013-08-25 07:14:48 PM  
I can't have kids because I'm transgender, but I wonder whether I would if I could.  I definitely have a motherly personality.
 
pla
2013-08-25 07:15:54 PM  
Feel bad?  Why the hell would this make me feel bad?  If anything, it justifies my decision to remain free of any parasites that incubate for 18+ years.

I can spend my money how I want, spend my free time how I want, sleep in on weekends, collect things without someone (like me as a child - A real terror!) breaking/burning/burying them... I occasionally need to sand and repaint the bannister that the cats (only two, not a "crazy cat person") have decided to use as a scratching post, but no big deal, and at least they show little interest (unlike me has a child) in my power tools.

And Omaha World Herald just pointed out that a steadily increasing number of others in our massively overpopulated world have made the same decision.  Why should I feel bad again?

/ W00t!  DINKs FTW, baby!
 
2013-08-25 07:17:09 PM  
This is par for the course for the Momaha World Herald.  They care primarily about moms and hipsters these days.  The Husker season will show up next week and take back the paper for real Nebraskans.
 
2013-08-25 07:18:26 PM  

YoOjo: Thanks Omaha


GET OUT OF MY BRAIN!
 
2013-08-25 07:19:28 PM  

Witness99: I'm 41 with two dogs and an SO.

I can see this argument from both sides. I do feel somewhat guilty for not having kids (but plan to adopt later btw) because somebody has to do the work of raising the next generation. To be callous, the next group of working taxpayers that will fund our future elderly asses (unless you're super successful and rich and don't need that). It seems like a pretty reasonable duty to society.

OTOH, it's a lot harder now to pull everything off. I REALLY wanted kids in my 30s and put a lot of effort into relationships. It doesn't always work out. If I had it to do all over again, I would work on kids/marriage first and career later.

But on the other, other hand...I do also have to admit that being a DINK (double income no kids) is fun too. Maybe the secret is to just be happy with what situation you land in and don't keep second guessing your decisions :)


I agree don't second guess your choices. So far my bf and I have chosen to remain child-free and there is no chance we'll change our minds.
Not gonna feel bad about it.
 
2013-08-25 07:19:55 PM  
I am turning 40 this year. I haven't just decided not to birth any babies, I got myself "fixed".

Never.gonna.happen.

I don't feel guilty, I don't feel proud, I am just grateful I live in a time and place that affords me the choice. Not everyone has that.
 
2013-08-25 07:23:42 PM  
Didn't make it through the article. Don't really care what some columnist in Omaha thinks.

I can understand people in my own generation (and younger) not wanting to have kids. We're all pretty self-centered (can't think of a way to say that that doesn't sound negative, but there you have it). Our childhoods have extended way beyond what previous generations were able to get away with. Video games are the norm for people in their 20s and 30s (I'm in my 40s, and I've spent a solid part of this weekend playing Ingress and Baldur's Gate).

So, why would we want to have to put up with mewling, crying, attention-needing kids? I never wanted a kid, even through my mid 30s. Too much hassle. Too much responsibility. Not enough me time. Not enough time/energy for good sex. Who needs that?

But then I was talking to a neighbor who is in her 60s. Her mother died recently, and she has no husband or children. She looks miserable most of the time I see her. She says that there is nobody left in the world who cares if she lives or dies. She said she never expected that feeling. But now that she has no living family, she feels like a stranger on the planet.

I look at my parents. They are just breaking 70. Their brothers and sisters are dropping like flies. All they have left is me and my sister to care about them, visit them and give them any emotional support.

So, while I understand my friends and peers who think having kids is crazy, I don't know how many of them have really, honestly thought about the end of their lives (who spends time dwelling that anyway?) and considered what this world will feel like when everyone they love is dead, and they have no family left on the face of the earth.

But then, but the time we're that old, Diablo 12 is going to keep your mind off of all that crap, I'm betting.
 
2013-08-25 07:23:48 PM  

Witness99: I do feel somewhat guilty for not having kids


Why? We have more than enough people here already.
 
2013-08-25 07:25:24 PM  

Peekoo: They can't make me feel guilty for something I've never wanted.  It's like trying to make me feel guilty for not eating beets.  Not possible.


....but beets are so healthy.
 
2013-08-25 07:25:31 PM  
If parents universally made the no-kids choice, all wars and all human-caused global warming would cease by 2113.  This is a good thing, no?
 
2013-08-25 07:30:34 PM  
I've seen what kids can do... I've certainly seen what I can do, and that's caused enough frustration in the world.
 
2013-08-25 07:32:55 PM  
This could be a fun thread, filled with rational and well thought out responses.
I'm making popcorn, along with some hummus, tahini, and pita bread, bring some cold beer if you want to share.
 
2013-08-25 07:33:32 PM  

Ambivalence: I am turning 40 this year. I haven't just decided not to birth any babies, I got myself "fixed".

Never.gonna.happen.

I don't feel guilty, I don't feel proud, I am just grateful I live in a time and place that affords me the choice. Not everyone has that.


Enjoy your Darwin Award.
 
2013-08-25 07:34:29 PM  
ihatebumperstickers.com
 
mjg
2013-08-25 07:36:07 PM  
Sex is not for procreation.

/there. said it.
 
2013-08-25 07:37:05 PM  

lostcat: Didn't make it through the article. Don't really care what some columnist in Omaha thinks.

I can understand people in my own generation (and younger) not wanting to have kids. We're all pretty self-centered (can't think of a way to say that that doesn't sound negative, but there you have it). Our childhoods have extended way beyond what previous generations were able to get away with. Video games are the norm for people in their 20s and 30s (I'm in my 40s, and I've spent a solid part of this weekend playing Ingress and Baldur's Gate).

So, why would we want to have to put up with mewling, crying, attention-needing kids? I never wanted a kid, even through my mid 30s. Too much hassle. Too much responsibility. Not enough me time. Not enough time/energy for good sex. Who needs that?

But then I was talking to a neighbor who is in her 60s. Her mother died recently, and she has no husband or children. She looks miserable most of the time I see her. She says that there is nobody left in the world who cares if she lives or dies. She said she never expected that feeling. But now that she has no living family, she feels like a stranger on the planet.

I look at my parents. They are just breaking 70. Their brothers and sisters are dropping like flies. All they have left is me and my sister to care about them, visit them and give them any emotional support.

So, while I understand my friends and peers who think having kids is crazy, I don't know how many of them have really, honestly thought about the end of their lives (who spends time dwelling that anyway?) and considered what this world will feel like when everyone they love is dead, and they have no family left on the face of the earth.

But then, but the time we're that old, Diablo 12 is going to keep your mind off of all that crap, I'm betting.


I have thought about that a lot - what you said about your 60 yo neighbor with no family and feeling like a "stranger" on the planet.

However, we live in a time where it's more possible than ever to exist in a community that transcends immediate family. We're also members of hiking, tennis, partying and spiritual discussion groups we found online. Even if our romantic relationship ends, and even if I never do adopt and get to have the wonderful experience of children, my email inbox is still flooded with social activities! (That I have little time for, because I work too much). But you get my point. And there's always the Raelians LOL
 
2013-08-25 07:37:24 PM  
When i'm old ill be surrounded by grandkids and family.

Love is reason enough.
 
2013-08-25 07:38:00 PM  

red5ish: The author is a 'ginger' and you know what that means.


Ginger pubes!
 
2013-08-25 07:38:40 PM  

Big Merl: the Momaha World Herald. They care primarily about moms and hipsters these days.


Those aren't hipsters. The mullets in Omaha are not ironic.

1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-08-25 07:40:42 PM  

octopied: I'd like a kid,but I'm running out of time and don't really feel like running out and making one with the first willing man I find.


OK , tell him no thanks and give me a call.

/ Second
 
2013-08-25 07:41:20 PM  

Rip Dashrock: This could be a fun thread, filled with rational and well thought out responses.
I'm making popcorn, along with some hummus, tahini, and pita bread, bring some cold beer if you want to share.


I hope you didn't buy your pitas from the Seattle gyro-mart a thread up.
 
2013-08-25 07:41:33 PM  

Peekoo: They can't make me feel guilty for something I've never wanted.  It's like trying to make me feel guilty for not eating beets.  Not possible.


Beets are very good for you. You should eat them.
 
2013-08-25 07:42:16 PM  
Godscrack More anti gay propaganda from Christian 'pro family' groups.
They want to you procreate and have many children, then they turn around and push for stricter immigration laws that rip families apart.


Perhaps you need to consider the demographic shift that will result from mass immigration from the third world.

Do you assume that foreign people who will outbreed you and refuse to assimilate in every other way will somehow still be pro-gay?

It's ok to be bloody-minded, but don't be short-sighted. The terrible truth is that Carlos and Bonita will actually treat you the way that you imagine Bob and Sue only wish to do.
 
2013-08-25 07:42:27 PM  

lostcat: I look at my parents. They are just breaking 70. Their brothers and sisters are dropping like flies. All they have left is me and my sister to care about them, visit them and give them any emotional support.


Damn, my parents are in their 70s and still working.
 
2013-08-25 07:43:19 PM  

ecmoRandomNumbers: How 'bout we try getting global population to a sustainable level? There are about 4 billion surplus people on this planet. I'm not saying I'm not one of them.


And yet there are entire cities that can hold millions sitting empty in China. The world is a big place, and with some tweaks to make our energy and food production more sustainable we can probably maintain our current population without a ton of effort. It just takes the will to make the necessary changes in lifestyle.
 
2013-08-25 07:43:54 PM  

Canton: Yeah, I would not be a good mother. I know it. The instincts are there, sort of, but they're not enough. Sometimes I do feel guilty about not providing my parents with grandkids, but then I remember that they seem pretty accepting of that.

So... No kids? No big deal. It's not like humanity is on the verge of extinction, or anything.


I don't even feed my cats on time, no way would children be safe in my household.

/sorry honey, get your own food
//mommy's raiding/gardening/watching a movie/reading a book
 
2013-08-25 07:44:47 PM  
Just what the world needs...another person.
Average cost to raise a child: $241,000  You either have to be wealthy or on welfare to be able to afford that luxury. For your typical US taxpayer, children are a privilage that isn't in our salary grade.
 
2013-08-25 07:49:10 PM  
Got kids. Happy with them. Lots of friends have kids. Lots of friends don't. Its not for everybody. I'm a firm believer in the general principle that "If you don't want it, then you can't have any." If you don't want children, you should not have them. If people want 'em, great. If not, cool.
 
2013-08-25 07:50:09 PM  

docilej: Average cost to raise a child: $241,000  You either have to be wealthy or on welfare to be able to afford that luxury


How much do you think welfare pays out?
 
2013-08-25 07:51:58 PM  
Some genepools are endangered. Like gingers.
 
2013-08-25 07:53:56 PM  

ladyfortuna: Canton: Yeah, I would not be a good mother. I know it. The instincts are there, sort of, but they're not enough. Sometimes I do feel guilty about not providing my parents with grandkids, but then I remember that they seem pretty accepting of that.

So... No kids? No big deal. It's not like humanity is on the verge of extinction, or anything.

I don't even feed my cats on time, no way would children be safe in my household.

/sorry honey, get your own food
//mommy's raiding/gardening/watching a movie/reading a book


I get that. I struggled to keep a consistent schedule with my bottle lambs this summer. I love them very much, but I also get distracted so ridiculously easily. Luckily, lambs and cats are pretty resilient. And forgiving. Mostly.

/The lambs are fine.
//Fat, healthy, and spoiled.
///And weaned.
 
2013-08-25 07:54:12 PM  

docilej: Average cost to raise a child: $241,000  You either have to be wealthy or on welfare to be able to afford that luxury. For your typical US taxpayer, children are a privilage that isn't in our salary grade.


Oh, come on, you don't actually believe that number, do you.  That's how much you need to spend for a pre-defined middle class life, yes.  But, as of two years ago, the  majority of kids born in the US were born under the Medicaid system.  Do you know how poor you have to be to qualify for Medicaid?  Even as a single mother?

Yes, tens of thousands of people go from having a kid on Medicaid to spending over $10k/year/child.  Most don't come anywhere near that.
 
2013-08-25 07:57:20 PM  

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: Ideal number is 2 or 3 kids for a couple in a developed country. Replace yourself and your spouse and maybe have one more for good measure/replace the kids who die before procreating (drown, sick, poisoned, etc).
Breeding like rabbits, while fun, is what's done in the third world because 2/3 of those kids will die before procreating.


I'm not sure about that.  If you think, if the population is declining, not sue to stress but merely due to low birth rates, then as time goes on, society needs to provide less everything as time goes on.  Family and societal wealth concentrates from one generation to the next instead of dissipating.

The reason corporate, religious and political leaders don't like it, is because a declining population means there is no 'stupid growth'.  Such as next year we will need 2% more drywall because the population is increasing. It's easy to become wealthy on the back of stupid growth because all you need to control, otherwise there is little risk or hard work involved.
 
2013-08-25 07:57:25 PM  

Mugato: Witness99: I do feel somewhat guilty for not having kids

Why? We have more than enough people here already.


I believe that with creative R&D and technological advances, we can support far more people than we have on the planet today. But that also requires political cooperation and a worldwide civilization that does not go full Neanderthal.

I can't boil this down enough for a readable Fark post. But I think that responsible, productive people should reproduce and pass on those values. This tiny rock spinning through space needs young problem solvers, and we have a duty to, if not have our own children, at least spend some time mentoring and supporting children.
 
2013-08-25 07:59:22 PM  
That I can't have kids is a worse feeling than that I'm bad because I don't want them.
 
2013-08-25 08:01:52 PM  
Too many people already, not selfish enough to pass along genetic defects, like sleeping in, screaming kids make me want to hurt things, and back hurts enough as it is.

/Wonder if there's a CF dating site yet?
 
2013-08-25 08:02:41 PM  
i.chzbgr.com

Don't want kids?  Don't have 'em.
Want kids?  Have 'em.
Either way, you're just as special as the gazillion other people who have or don't have kids.

/Effing snowflakes
//People have have been "child-free" since forever.
///Get over yourselves.
 
2013-08-25 08:02:48 PM  
We tend to speak of going child-free (or is it childless?) in hushed tones, mainly to people who we suspect may share our point of view.

Its not 'Chlidless' you sans-soul ginger. Childless (like homeless) implies a lack of something. Childfree is a choice.
 
2013-08-25 08:03:20 PM  

lostcat: She looks miserable most of the time I see her. She says that there is nobody left in the world who cares if she lives or dies.


So someone who built their entire social structure around genetics is sad when her gene pool runs dry. You don't say.

If only there was some way to build relationships without a dependence on DNA. But we all know that's not possible.
 
2013-08-25 08:03:53 PM  
More propaganda from christer f*ckers. Guess what? No!
 
2013-08-25 08:07:54 PM  

Witness99: if not have our own children


If we stopped treating children like property and instead recognized them as full-fledged citizens in their own right, with their own claim to societal resources, this wouldn't be a problem. Assisting in child rearing is something that everyone would do by paying taxes in working in child-support jobs and volunteer positions. But as it stands we hold at most 2 people responsible for essentially 100% of each child's rearing tasks and expenses and we teach parents to refuse help from others on the basis of insufficient genetic relationship.
 
2013-08-25 08:11:07 PM  

Canton: Yeah, I would not be a good mother. I know it. The instincts are there, sort of, but they're not enough. Sometimes I do feel guilty about not providing my parents with grandkids, but then I remember that they seem pretty accepting of that.

So... No kids? No big deal. It's not like humanity is on the verge of extinction, or anything.


THIS.
 
2013-08-25 08:12:03 PM  

Myria: That I can't have kids is a worse feeling than that I'm bad because I don't want them.


You can always adopt.
 
2013-08-25 08:14:17 PM  
I have kids. They're fun. But encourage *everybody* to breed? Seriously? Have you been in Walmart?
 
2013-08-25 08:16:55 PM  
Married, no children. I didn't enjoy my childhood, I spent the first 17 years of my life alternating between dysthymia and clinical depression, with the following eight years between drug addiction and drug therapy. My father had Parkinson's, his father also. If there is a genetic link to these disorders I would rather not pass it on. This far and no farther.

I'm happy now, I have been for quite a few years. I don't need drugs anymore, and I don't think it would be good for me or any theoretical progeny for me to pass my genes on.
 
2013-08-25 08:17:08 PM  
I'm not having children. You're farking welcome!
 
2013-08-25 08:19:58 PM  

lostcat: Video games are the norm for people in their 20s and 30


In past generations video games did not exist in childhood. This comparison is pants-on-head ridiculous.

Both child and adults sing and dance for entertainment and have for generations. Is singing "childish" or "selfish"?

lostcat: Our childhoods have extended way beyond what previous generations were able to get away with.


No one is "getting away" with childhood. Until you reach the age of majority you have no legal influence over any significant of your life and you could be stuck with caretakers that are truly terrible toward you. Beyond that everyone is generally making the decisions they think are best given their personal values, knowledge, and perception. In pervious generations those "adult" decisions included things like chain smoking and segregation -- it's not clear to me how today's "extended childhood" (whatever the hell that means) is a worse outcome.
 
2013-08-25 08:20:35 PM  

profplump: Witness99: if not have our own children

If we stopped treating children like property and instead recognized them as full-fledged citizens in their own right, with their own claim to societal resources, this wouldn't be a problem. Assisting in child rearing is something that everyone would do by paying taxes in working in child-support jobs and volunteer positions. But as it stands we hold at most 2 people responsible for essentially 100% of each child's rearing tasks and expenses and we teach parents to refuse help from others on the basis of insufficient genetic relationship.


Exactly. For example, my gay male friends that complain about paying the "school tax" cause they will never have kids. Very short sighted.
 
2013-08-25 08:22:40 PM  

pla: Feel bad?  Why the hell would this make me feel bad?  If anything, it justifies my decision to remain free of any parasites that incubate for 18+ years.

I can spend my money how I want, spend my free time how I want, sleep in on weekends, collect things without someone (like me as a child - A real terror!) breaking/burning/burying them... I occasionally need to sand and repaint the bannister that the cats (only two, not a "crazy cat person") have decided to use as a scratching post, but no big deal, and at least they show little interest (unlike me has a child) in my power tools.

And Omaha World Herald just pointed out that a steadily increasing number of others in our massively overpopulated world have made the same decision.  Why should I feel bad again?

/ W00t!  DINKs FTW, baby!


When you're old and dependent on the next generation of workers to provide for your care, just remember you called them "parasites," and try to appreciate the irony before you die. Alone.
 
2013-08-25 08:36:07 PM  

lostcat: Didn't make it through the article. Don't really care what some columnist in Omaha thinks.

I can understand people in my own generation (and younger) not wanting to have kids. We're all pretty self-centered (can't think of a way to say that that doesn't sound negative, but there you have it). Our childhoods have extended way beyond what previous generations were able to get away with. Video games are the norm for people in their 20s and 30s (I'm in my 40s, and I've spent a solid part of this weekend playing Ingress and Baldur's Gate).

So, why would we want to have to put up with mewling, crying, attention-needing kids? I never wanted a kid, even through my mid 30s. Too much hassle. Too much responsibility. Not enough me time. Not enough time/energy for good sex. Who needs that?

But then I was talking to a neighbor who is in her 60s. Her mother died recently, and she has no husband or children. She looks miserable most of the time I see her. She says that there is nobody left in the world who cares if she lives or dies. She said she never expected that feeling. But now that she has no living family, she feels like a stranger on the planet.

I look at my parents. They are just breaking 70. Their brothers and sisters are dropping like flies. All they have left is me and my sister to care about them, visit them and give them any emotional support.

So, while I understand my friends and peers who think having kids is crazy, I don't know how many of them have really, honestly thought about the end of their lives (who spends time dwelling that anyway?) and considered what this world will feel like when everyone they love is dead, and they have no family left on the face of the earth.

But then, but the time we're that old, Diablo 12 is going to keep your mind off of all that crap, I'm betting.


I think you meant diablo 4.
 
rpm
2013-08-25 08:40:19 PM  

Massagonist: Don't want kids?  Don't have 'em.
Want kids?  Have 'em.
Either way, you're just as special as the gazillion other people who have or don't have kids.


I think this needs to be qualified some.

If you want kids, have them. Don't have them just because it's what's done; don't confuse that with wanting.
 
2013-08-25 08:42:23 PM  

DreamyAltarBoy: Married, no children. I didn't enjoy my childhood, I spent the first 17 years of my life alternating between dysthymia and clinical depression, with the following eight years between drug addiction and drug therapy. My father had Parkinson's, his father also. If there is a genetic link to these disorders I would rather not pass it on. This far and no farther.

I'm happy now, I have been for quite a few years. I don't need drugs anymore, and I don't think it would be good for me or any theoretical progeny for me to pass my genes on.


Yeah, I'm in agreement here.  I have some bad genetic traits, and I've heard snippets of conversation leading me to believe I narrowly missed out on a few more (possibly meaning I'm a carrier).  Until genetic manipulation becomes standard and not-ridiculously-expensive, I probably won't risk passing on defective genes to the next generation.
 
2013-08-25 08:43:48 PM  

profplump: Witness99: if not have our own children

If we stopped treating children like property and instead recognized them as full-fledged citizens in their own right, with their own claim to societal resources, this wouldn't be a problem. Assisting in child rearing is something that everyone would do by paying taxes in working in child-support jobs and volunteer positions. But as it stands we hold at most 2 people responsible for essentially 100% of each child's rearing tasks and expenses and we teach parents to refuse help from others on the basis of insufficient genetic relationship.


Actually, in the U.S., big chunks of the federal and state tax codes (deductions and funding schools via property tax come to mind) are 1) dedicated to helping pay for kids, and 2) born by those WITHOUT kids.

Not complaining, just saying.  Kids ARE important, but don't pretend those of us without them don't chip in as well.
 
2013-08-25 08:51:51 PM  

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: Ideal number is 2 or 3 kids for a couple in a developed country. Replace yourself and your spouse and maybe have one more for good measure/replace the kids who die before procreating (drown, sick, poisoned, etc).
Breeding like rabbits, while fun, is what's done in the third world because 2/3 of those kids will die before procreating.


Why replace the kids who die?  What's wrong with slowly stepping down the population in a controlled manner until people have breathing room and resources again?
 
2013-08-25 08:58:49 PM  
Where the hell is the guilt in this article, Trollmitter?
 
2013-08-25 09:00:37 PM  
Don't understand the faux-guilt about not having kids. Everybody's got a persecution complex. Gotta explain that it's not due to fertility issues so you don't feel emasculated?

No, I don't have kids, but I am paying taxes that fund your kids' education. That's my "message to the future". You're welcome. Now don't fark them up and waste my investment.

/always wanted nephews
//got 3 of them
///happy
 
2013-08-25 09:01:46 PM  

Somacandra: Got kids. Happy with them. Lots of friends have kids. Lots of friends don't. Its not for everybody. I'm a firm believer in the general principle that "If you don't want it, then you can't have any." If you don't want children, you should not have them. If people want 'em, great. If not, cool.


This.
 
pla
2013-08-25 09:05:21 PM  
Nabb1 : When you're old and dependent on the next generation of workers to provide for your care, just remember you called them "parasites," and try to appreciate the irony before you die. Alone.

Thanks to not having kids, I'll most likely die with a positive net worth (though I'll do my damnedest to hit zero the day I die, make no mistake!). I'll have pretty young nurses wiping my arse once I can no longer handle that task.

And compared to what exactly? Kids grudgingly dragged in to the home for their monthly visit to grandma, so she can fail to remember their names and everyone has a good laugh and she doesn't even remember last month's visit next month?

Thanks, but no thanks. Glurge aside, I sincerely hope I still have the presence of mind when the doctors diagnose me with something fatal, so I can blow through the rest of my savings on hookers and blow, culminating with a swan-dive into a live volcano. You can have your crappy monthly "family time" at the home. I'll either go out with a bang, or won't know the difference for drooling on myself, thankyouverymuch.

/ Enjoy your choices.
// I will.  Or won't know the difference - Same thing.
 
2013-08-25 09:07:06 PM  
My last girlfriend asked me if I wanted to have a child, and I said yes.  Apparently we were talking about two very, very different things.  I'm going to miss her.
 
2013-08-25 09:08:30 PM  
A very happy dink home here. (Dual Income No Kids).
 
rka
2013-08-25 09:14:37 PM  

Nabb1: When you're old and dependent on the next generation of workers to provide for your care, just remember you called them "parasites," and try to appreciate the irony before you die. Alone.


You ever spent any time in an old-folks home?

People with kids, people without kids, doesn't matter. They are all equally miserable. Medical science can prolong life but it can't make it actually worth living in many cases.

You ever had the experience of caring for an elderly relative who is just hanging on enough to suck every resource that they had and even their children had dry in some mockery of "quality of life"?

Dying alone is not my fear. Watching my older relatives (including my parents in the alarmingly rapidly approaching futre) hang on until the bitter end is.
 
2013-08-25 09:15:54 PM  

pla: Nabb1 : When you're old and dependent on the next generation of workers to provide for your care, just remember you called them "parasites," and try to appreciate the irony before you die. Alone.

Thanks to not having kids, I'll most likely die with a positive net worth (though I'll do my damnedest to hit zero the day I die, make no mistake!). I'll have pretty young nurses wiping my arse once I can no longer handle that task.

And compared to what exactly? Kids grudgingly dragged in to the home for their monthly visit to grandma, so she can fail to remember their names and everyone has a good laugh and she doesn't even remember last month's visit next month?

Thanks, but no thanks. Glurge aside, I sincerely hope I still have the presence of mind when the doctors diagnose me with something fatal, so I can blow through the rest of my savings on hookers and blow, culminating with a swan-dive into a live volcano. You can have your crappy monthly "family time" at the home. I'll either go out with a bang, or won't know the difference for drooling on myself, thankyouverymuch.

/ Enjoy your choices.
// I will.  Or won't know the difference - Same thing.


If no one had kids, where would these "pretty young nurses" come from? Apart from your fantasies, we are actually in agreement - you aren't cut out for parenthood. Too many people like you who shouldn't have kids do, and the kids suffer for it. So, you've probably made the right choice. You can't be totally self-absorbed and be a good parent,
 
2013-08-25 09:23:45 PM  

Koodz: Why replace the kids who die?  What's wrong with slowly stepping down the population in a controlled manner until people have breathing room and resources again?


Resources are indeed an issue, but I think a lot of that can be taken care of by being smarter about how we use our resources and more sustainable with our energy production, so I don't think we really need THAT much population control to get things back to where the human race is sustainable.

As far as space goes, even in China there is plenty of space for people, with cities like this laying empty:

static5.businessinsider.com

The problem is that there just isn't a way to make a living in most of those places, so no one can afford to move in. Hell, if everyone was willing to live with urban population densities, you could fit a LOT of people on to the Earth:

media.treehugger.com

Really at the end of the day, it all comes down to energy production. If we ever manage to crack the technology behind affordable controlled nuclear fusion, we could probably triple the population of the world with no ill effects because we'd have cleanish power and more than enough energy for increased food production and massive desalination projects. At the end of the day, it really comes down to energy, and another quantum leap in energy production capability similar to the beginning of the petroleum age could change the game completely in terms of the carrying capacity of the Earth.
 
2013-08-25 09:25:47 PM  

Witness99: Exactly. For example, my gay male friends that complain about paying the "school tax" cause they will never have kids. Very short sighted.


I call that, someones gonna have to empty my bed pan when I'm old. Since I have no kids, that means it's going to be someone elses kids.  Not sure I want to be old an retired in a society run by a bunch of dummkopfs.

\Seriously it's bad enough now while I'm earning a living.
\\As I'm dying they'll probably be playing the be playing the Skrillex, easy listening over the PA.
 
2013-08-25 09:30:42 PM  

Nabb1: pla: Nabb1 : When you're old and dependent on the next generation of workers to provide for your care, just remember you called them "parasites," and try to appreciate the irony before you die. Alone.

Thanks to not having kids, I'll most likely die with a positive net worth (though I'll do my damnedest to hit zero the day I die, make no mistake!). I'll have pretty young nurses wiping my arse once I can no longer handle that task.

And compared to what exactly? Kids grudgingly dragged in to the home for their monthly visit to grandma, so she can fail to remember their names and everyone has a good laugh and she doesn't even remember last month's visit next month?

Thanks, but no thanks. Glurge aside, I sincerely hope I still have the presence of mind when the doctors diagnose me with something fatal, so I can blow through the rest of my savings on hookers and blow, culminating with a swan-dive into a live volcano. You can have your crappy monthly "family time" at the home. I'll either go out with a bang, or won't know the difference for drooling on myself, thankyouverymuch.

/ Enjoy your choices.
// I will.  Or won't know the difference - Same thing.

If no one had kids, where would these "pretty young nurses" come from? Apart from your fantasies, we are actually in agreement - you aren't cut out for parenthood. Too many people like you who shouldn't have kids do, and the kids suffer for it. So, you've probably made the right choice. You can't be totally self-absorbed and be a good parent,


Considering how many people want kids as opposed to those who don't, that's a rather silly question.

As to the rest of your post..you sound bitter.
 
2013-08-25 09:31:17 PM  

universebetween: dont have kids

will never have kids.

very glad.

fark you for having kids.


We had four kids.

They're awesome people.

Have five grandchildren (so far).

Glad you didn't procreate because you sound like a dick.
 
2013-08-25 09:32:29 PM  
A similar rant in the Minneapolis Star Tribune today. People just love dogs more than children.
 
2013-08-25 09:34:35 PM  
I love this Fark thread. The self-absorbed come here to convince everyone (and themselves) why they've heroically declined to have kids.

1. No one cares why
2. Most of you didn't have a choice anyway.
3. Kids require lots of work and attention, things in short supply in your typical childless Farkers
4. It's not about you


Parents already know what it's like to be childless, to have lots of free time, sleeping in, extra cash, travel opportunities.
There is far more to life than that stuff.
 
2013-08-25 09:34:39 PM  
Well I, for one, appreciate the fact that people who have political beliefs antagonistic to mine have taken themselves out of the gene pool.  I just wish they'd stay the hell out of education also.

/mostly kidding
 
2013-08-25 09:40:28 PM  

pla: Feel bad?  Why the hell would this make me feel bad?  If anything, it justifies my decision to remain free of any parasites that incubate for 18+ years.

I can spend my money how I want, spend my free time how I want, sleep in on weekends, collect things without someone (like me as a child - A real terror!) breaking/burning/burying them... I occasionally need to sand and repaint the bannister that the cats (only two, not a "crazy cat person") have decided to use as a scratching post, but no big deal, and at least they show little interest (unlike me has a child) in my power tools.

And Omaha World Herald just pointed out that a steadily increasing number of others in our massively overpopulated world have made the same decision.  Why should I feel bad again?

/ W00t!  DINKs FTW, baby!


Off-topic-ish:

Could you wrap the bannister with carpet where the cats like to scratch? My friend's mom did something like that for the one dining room table leg that the cats couldn't seem to resist. After the cats passed on they removed the cover and you'd never know cats scratched that leg daily.

/just a thought
//theirs was secured with lots of velcro
 
2013-08-25 09:40:46 PM  

grumpfuff: Nabb1: pla: Nabb1 : When you're old and dependent on the next generation of workers to provide for your care, just remember you called them "parasites," and try to appreciate the irony before you die. Alone.

Thanks to not having kids, I'll most likely die with a positive net worth (though I'll do my damnedest to hit zero the day I die, make no mistake!). I'll have pretty young nurses wiping my arse once I can no longer handle that task.

And compared to what exactly? Kids grudgingly dragged in to the home for their monthly visit to grandma, so she can fail to remember their names and everyone has a good laugh and she doesn't even remember last month's visit next month?

Thanks, but no thanks. Glurge aside, I sincerely hope I still have the presence of mind when the doctors diagnose me with something fatal, so I can blow through the rest of my savings on hookers and blow, culminating with a swan-dive into a live volcano. You can have your crappy monthly "family time" at the home. I'll either go out with a bang, or won't know the difference for drooling on myself, thankyouverymuch.

/ Enjoy your choices.
// I will.  Or won't know the difference - Same thing.

If no one had kids, where would these "pretty young nurses" come from? Apart from your fantasies, we are actually in agreement - you aren't cut out for parenthood. Too many people like you who shouldn't have kids do, and the kids suffer for it. So, you've probably made the right choice. You can't be totally self-absorbed and be a good parent,

Considering how many people want kids as opposed to those who don't, that's a rather silly question.

As to the rest of your post..you sound bitter.


On the contrary. I'm not bitter at all. I think people like you would be terrible parents. I just find it funny that it's totally lost on you that one day you will essentially be a "parasite" - the creepy old lecher with no bowel control the nurses talk about. I admire people who are aware they aren't cut out for the job.
 
2013-08-25 09:45:11 PM  
When I was a youth counselor taking care of five- and six-year-olds, I truly loved my kids, and I loved teaching and playing with them. I would have taken a bullet for any one of them, no questions asked. But I got to give them back at the end of the day. As for kids of my own, no freakin' way.
 
2013-08-25 09:46:01 PM  
By far, the worst parents I know are the ones who had children because it was the right thing to do. Or worse, the ones who had children "so they can take care of me" when old age arrives--those are the real monsters.

Do what you think you should do with love in your heart and all will be well.
 
2013-08-25 09:49:01 PM  
The only way I'm going to have kids is if I collect them like Angelina Jolie.
 
2013-08-25 09:49:24 PM  

August11: By far, the worst parents I know are the ones who had children because it was the right thing to do. Or worse, the ones who had children "so they can take care of me" when old age arrives--those are the real monsters.

Do what you think you should do with love in your heart and all will be well.


If you are more worried about what impact having children will have on your life than how much of an impact you can have on a child's life, then you aren't approaching it right. And if you can't make that adjustment, there 's nothing wrong with not having kids.
 
2013-08-25 09:50:04 PM  
What if everybody thought like that??   All people care about is money, happiness and other STUFF!!!!

Oh, no ... the death of the white race!!  Cries and screams of loneliness!!  Anyone who's left will being speaking either Spanish or Arabic because of the selfish people!!

/happy to be unchilded
//childless is just tragic and patronizing
 
2013-08-25 09:50:52 PM  

Mad_Radhu: Really at the end of the day, it all comes down to energy production. If we ever manage to crack the technology behind affordable controlled nuclear fusion, we could probably triple the population of the world with no ill effects because we'd have cleanish power and more than enough energy for increased food production and massive desalination projects. At the end of the day, it really comes down to energy, and another quantum leap in energy production capability similar to the beginning of the petroleum age could change the game completely in terms of the carrying capacity of the Earth.


I tend to think that way too, but I think we'll need some major social changes to go along with that. The corruption, incompetence, and waste at the municipal level are appalling. We need to realize that not everyone needs to work, especially when that "work" can be done by four cells in a spreadsheet.

We'll need to have massive changes especially if we don't find this magical energy source.
 
2013-08-25 09:51:39 PM  

Witness99: profplump: Witness99: if not have our own children

If we stopped treating children like property and instead recognized them as full-fledged citizens in their own right, with their own claim to societal resources, this wouldn't be a problem. Assisting in child rearing is something that everyone would do by paying taxes in working in child-support jobs and volunteer positions. But as it stands we hold at most 2 people responsible for essentially 100% of each child's rearing tasks and expenses and we teach parents to refuse help from others on the basis of insufficient genetic relationship.

Exactly. For example, my gay male friends that complain about paying the "school tax" cause they will never have kids. Very short sighted.


I'd tell you to tell them to eat a dick, but it's too late.

I didn't know anybody unironically said that shiat.  People really think it's okay for everybody else's kids to be dumb and inherit the world someday for the sake of, what?  A little money they're going to blow on more plastic Chinese crap from the mall?  Tell your gay friends to enjoy all the extra money they're not spending on kids otherwise and remind them they live in a society.
 
2013-08-25 09:53:37 PM  

Nabb1: August11: By far, the worst parents I know are the ones who had children because it was the right thing to do. Or worse, the ones who had children "so they can take care of me" when old age arrives--those are the real monsters.

Do what you think you should do with love in your heart and all will be well.

If you are more worried about what impact having children will have on your life than how much of an impact you can have on a child's life, then you aren't approaching it right. And if you can't make that adjustment, there 's nothing wrong with not having kids.


I'm not sure but I think you are agreeing with my statement.

Yes?
 
2013-08-25 09:54:43 PM  

August11: Nabb1: August11: By far, the worst parents I know are the ones who had children because it was the right thing to do. Or worse, the ones who had children "so they can take care of me" when old age arrives--those are the real monsters.

Do what you think you should do with love in your heart and all will be well.

If you are more worried about what impact having children will have on your life than how much of an impact you can have on a child's life, then you aren't approaching it right. And if you can't make that adjustment, there 's nothing wrong with not having kids.

I'm not sure but I think you are agreeing with my statement.

Yes?


Yes. I should have made that clear. Been a long day.
 
2013-08-25 09:57:12 PM  

Nabb1: August11: Nabb1: August11: By far, the worst parents I know are the ones who had children because it was the right thing to do. Or worse, the ones who had children "so they can take care of me" when old age arrives--those are the real monsters.

Do what you think you should do with love in your heart and all will be well.

If you are more worried about what impact having children will have on your life than how much of an impact you can have on a child's life, then you aren't approaching it right. And if you can't make that adjustment, there 's nothing wrong with not having kids.

I'm not sure but I think you are agreeing with my statement.

Yes?

Yes. I should have made that clear. Been a long day.


Ah. Roger that. Me too and a longer day tomorrow.
 
2013-08-25 10:00:54 PM  
www.replikultes.net
 
2013-08-25 10:01:41 PM  
The purpose of adults is not to produce children, the purpose of children is to produce adults.
 
2013-08-25 10:01:52 PM  

Godscrack: More anti gay propaganda from Christian 'pro family' groups.

They want to you procreate and have many children, then they turn around and push for stricter immigration laws that rip families apart.


They know that their republican-leaning demographic is literally dying out. They need fresh drones to carry on the evil.
 
2013-08-25 10:04:07 PM  
 
2013-08-25 10:04:41 PM  

ecmoRandomNumbers: How 'bout we try getting global population to a sustainable level? There are about 4 billion surplus people on this planet. I'm not saying I'm not one of them.


Sounds like I'm not the only one who has read Dan Brown's latest book. Yep, about 4 billion.
 
2013-08-25 10:05:56 PM  
I'd impregnate that.
spacebison.com
 
2013-08-25 10:08:07 PM  
No one can know what the future holds.  So all the people who have kids with the idea that they are leaving a living breathing legacy blah blah blah, um, your kids may die relatively soon after you do.   They may kill themselves, OD on drugs, get hit by a bus, die as a victim of crime, etc.

You and I live and do what we do, and that's it.   If I die childless then I have left as much in this world as the person who had 8 kids, because the lives of those 8 kids are not guaranteed and there's no telling if any of the ones who do live will contribute positively or negatively.   When you die you don't know if you left anything in the future for humanity.  This is why if contributing to humanity means that much to you, you need to do it yourself while you're alive in the here and now.

As far as providing future workers and such, it's not necessary.   Humans overall have hit critical mass and barring some catastrophe, no individuals need to worry about reproducing so as do their part to send in more reinforcements.   Those reinforcements are coming in whether anyone wants them to or not.
 
2013-08-25 10:10:37 PM  
I knew when I was about 15 that I didn't want to be the dad.  Fifty now.  I like to do what I want to do when I want to do it.  Never felt a moment of guilt.

/ 7 sisters and one brother


// More nieces and nephews than I can keep track of


/// Unless it's a mass suicide, everyone dies alone
 
2013-08-25 10:14:41 PM  

rpm: Massagonist: Don't want kids?  Don't have 'em.
Want kids?  Have 'em.
Either way, you're just as special as the gazillion other people who have or don't have kids.

I think this needs to be qualified some.

If you want kids, have them. Don't have them just because it's what's done; don't confuse that with wanting.


I think it needs to be amended again. If you want kids, have them, but follow zero growth rules: one per person.

I don't have any, never wanted any, and have never for one second felt the least bit guilty about it.
 
2013-08-25 10:22:02 PM  

Koodz: Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: Ideal number is 2 or 3 kids for a couple in a developed country. Replace yourself and your spouse and maybe have one more for good measure/replace the kids who die before procreating (drown, sick, poisoned, etc).
Breeding like rabbits, while fun, is what's done in the third world because 2/3 of those kids will die before procreating.

Why replace the kids who die?  What's wrong with slowly stepping down the population in a controlled manner until people have breathing room and resources again?


Because some of the kids who die didn't die of their own stupidity. If you could magically enforce only one boy and one girl per couple, you'd have a population decline due to accidental death (carbon monoxide poisoning as an example), choosing the celibate monastic life, the retarded, the natural death ones (baby was born with severely shriveled lungs and died in two days), and those who turn out homosexual (assuming they didn't spread seed before discovering their preference). That extra kid offsets the accidents of history and keeps population stable for future commitments (like pensions and insurance pools) rather than allowing more variable swings in growth/death like we have now with the Boomers.

While some people do think that we as a species are maxed out, I would disagree because famine and healthcare problems exist in the world because of political and geographic distribution issues (like aid workers being target practice in tribal Africa) not production limitations from the developed nations. I think that somewhere between 15 and 20 billion would be a more natural limit if renewable energy and cloning were to be really boosted (if cows don't have souls, who cares if you're eating the same one ten thousand times). The biggest problem is water, but desalination can work if sunlight and wind and thorium reactors can be more universal.

And as a second bonus, having larger populations means a greater push into reducing the cost per pound for orbit, which leads to the desire to become a multi-planet species.
 
2013-08-25 10:22:27 PM  
I've had two kids, both nearly grown now. I was still in my teens when I had the oldest and she ended up being raised by my parents. I was in my early twenties when I had the second one and she was with me til she was 11. Her father and I had split up, and she'd always been a daddy's girl and wanted to live with him. I want her to be happy so I agreed. She got what she wanted and I got my freedom back. I had my tubes tied in 2006, so no accidental babies for me. I love it. I'm happy to wait longer for grandkids too. I want my girls to be more ready for motherhood than I was. My oldest wants kids, the youngest is undecided (she's16.5 yrs old)
 
2013-08-25 10:24:12 PM  

Koodz: Witness99: profplump: Witness99: if not have our own children

If we stopped treating children like property and instead recognized them as full-fledged citizens in their own right, with their own claim to societal resources, this wouldn't be a problem. Assisting in child rearing is something that everyone would do by paying taxes in working in child-support jobs and volunteer positions. But as it stands we hold at most 2 people responsible for essentially 100% of each child's rearing tasks and expenses and we teach parents to refuse help from others on the basis of insufficient genetic relationship.

Exactly. For example, my gay male friends that complain about paying the "school tax" cause they will never have kids. Very short sighted.

I'd tell you to tell them to eat a dick, but it's too late.

I didn't know anybody unironically said that shiat.  People really think it's okay for everybody else's kids to be dumb and inherit the world someday for the sake of, what?  A little money they're going to blow on more plastic Chinese crap from the mall?  Tell your gay friends to enjoy all the extra money they're not spending on kids otherwise and remind them they live in a society.


I have told them that. One understands, the other doesn't think he should be held accountable whatsoever.

I get the whole idea about its everyone's, society's responsibility to put time, effort, resources to the next generation. I ended up with two long term relationships in my thirties that didn't end in marriage/children, so, I hope to adopt.

I'm not lesbian (yet), but gays and lesbians can adopt too. Some think we have enough people and want to avoid over population (I disagree, we have the tech to overcome that). But if nothing else, we all can sponsor a child in some way, whether by Big Brothers Big Sisters Mentoring or adopting a kid out of the huge pool of kids without families. Kids that are already here, but have no love or guidance.
 
2013-08-25 10:36:07 PM  
Little kids are constant work and worry, but they're also constant entertainment.

Like when my 2 year old dropped his fork on the floor, then started screaming "fork, fork, fork!"

He couldn't pronounce his "r's"

He ate with a spoon til he was 4.
 
2013-08-25 10:37:43 PM  

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: Koodz: Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: Ideal number is 2 or 3 kids for a couple in a developed country. Replace yourself and your spouse and maybe have one more for good measure/replace the kids who die before procreating (drown, sick, poisoned, etc).
Breeding like rabbits, while fun, is what's done in the third world because 2/3 of those kids will die before procreating.

Why replace the kids who die?  What's wrong with slowly stepping down the population in a controlled manner until people have breathing room and resources again?

Because some of the kids who die didn't die of their own stupidity. If you could magically enforce only one boy and one girl per couple, you'd have a population decline due to accidental death (carbon monoxide poisoning as an example), choosing the celibate monastic life, the retarded, the natural death ones (baby was born with severely shriveled lungs and died in two days), and those who turn out homosexual (assuming they didn't spread seed before discovering their preference). That extra kid offsets the accidents of history and keeps population stable for future commitments (like pensions and insurance pools) rather than allowing more variable swings in growth/death like we have now with the Boomers.

While some people do think that we as a species are maxed out, I would disagree because famine and healthcare problems exist in the world because of political and geographic distribution issues (like aid workers being target practice in tribal Africa) not production limitations from the developed nations. I think that somewhere between 15 and 20 billion would be a more natural limit if renewable energy and cloning were to be really boosted (if cows don't have souls, who cares if you're eating the same one ten thousand times). The biggest problem is water, but desalination can work if sunlight and wind and thorium reactors can be more universal.

And as a second bonus, having larger populations means a greater push into reducing the cost per pound for orbit, which leads to the desire to become a multi-planet species.


I like how you think.
 
2013-08-25 10:42:18 PM  

Pharmdawg: Little kids are constant work and worry, but they're also constant entertainment.

Like when my 2 year old dropped his fork on the floor, then started screaming "fork, fork, fork!"

He couldn't pronounce his "r's"

He ate with a spoon til he was 4.


Like this afternoon when my 16 month old granddaughter was seeing how far she could jam her finger up her nose. Then she went into the living room and decided to play dentist with her mother. I didn't tell my daughter where her daughter's finger had been until midway through the dental exam.

/now that's entertainment!
 
2013-08-25 10:42:26 PM  
I have one baby. It is a joyous pain in the ass. There is something amazing about creating a little poop machine replica of yourself. Having freedom is cool, but so is having a family.
 
2013-08-25 10:43:39 PM  

Witness99: Mugato: Witness99: I do feel somewhat guilty for not having kids

Why? We have more than enough people here already.

I believe that with creative R&D and technological advances, we can support far more people than we have on the planet today. But that also requires political cooperation and a worldwide civilization that does not go full Neanderthal.

I can't boil this down enough for a readable Fark post. But I think that responsible, productive people should reproduce and pass on those values. This tiny rock spinning through space needs young problem solvers, and we have a duty to, if not have our own children, at least spend some time mentoring and supporting children.


No, we don't.
If you believe that you have a duty to do so, then by all means go right ahread
 
2013-08-25 10:44:36 PM  
Can we just say it's not a good idea to shame anyone for their life choices (unless they choose to be a Scientologist)?
 
2013-08-25 10:46:26 PM  
As a mom of four well adjusted, much loved, intelligent children, I'm honored to have been able to take your place in contributing to the future population zero growth policies.

Thanks again for your patronage.
 
2013-08-25 10:49:00 PM  

Witness99: Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: Koodz: Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: Ideal number is 2 or 3 kids for a couple in a developed country. Replace yourself and your spouse and maybe have one more for good measure/replace the kids who die before procreating (drown, sick, poisoned, etc).
Breeding like rabbits, while fun, is what's done in the third world because 2/3 of those kids will die before procreating.

Why replace the kids who die?  What's wrong with slowly stepping down the population in a controlled manner until people have breathing room and resources again?

Because some of the kids who die didn't die of their own stupidity. If you could magically enforce only one boy and one girl per couple, you'd have a population decline due to accidental death (carbon monoxide poisoning as an example), choosing the celibate monastic life, the retarded, the natural death ones (baby was born with severely shriveled lungs and died in two days), and those who turn out homosexual (assuming they didn't spread seed before discovering their preference). That extra kid offsets the accidents of history and keeps population stable for future commitments (like pensions and insurance pools) rather than allowing more variable swings in growth/death like we have now with the Boomers.

While some people do think that we as a species are maxed out, I would disagree because famine and healthcare problems exist in the world because of political and geographic distribution issues (like aid workers being target practice in tribal Africa) not production limitations from the developed nations. I think that somewhere between 15 and 20 billion would be a more natural limit if renewable energy and cloning were to be really boosted (if cows don't have souls, who cares if you're eating the same one ten thousand times). The biggest problem is water, but desalination can work if sunlight and wind and thorium reactors can be more universal.

And as a second bonus, having larger populations means a greater push into reducin ...


Thank you. The idea of reducing the growth rate of humanity is a reasonable one and I can see the appeal of trimming back from 7 billion right now, provided that we're limited to a single chunk o' rock. But for innovation and development of business, it's a huge bonus for production and efficiency if you know approximately how many people will be around in 50 years. A stable population means that farmers don't worry about not having a market to sell their goods and doctors not having to worry about famine (surplus and malnourishment are two separate issues, I admit). And taxation/spending levels in government can be more linear rather than the spastic levels of funding we have. Assuming no major spontaneous losses of life (like a nuclear war), a stable population can ride out the tragedies of history (Hurricane Katrina as an example) much easier as well.

I'm an admitted futurist who thinks that reducing the cost per pound of launch should be one of the highest scientific priorities for us (along with energy research). The results aren't sexy like bionic arms and ocular implants, but being able to justify sending a ship to Europa or Proxima Centauri in 300-400 years is absolutely worth the investment.
 
2013-08-25 10:50:40 PM  

give me doughnuts: Witness99: Mugato: Witness99: I do feel somewhat guilty for not having kids

Why? We have more than enough people here already.

I believe that with creative R&D and technological advances, we can support far more people than we have on the planet today. But that also requires political cooperation and a worldwide civilization that does not go full Neanderthal.

I can't boil this down enough for a readable Fark post. But I think that responsible, productive people should reproduce and pass on those values. This tiny rock spinning through space needs young problem solvers, and we have a duty to, if not have our own children, at least spend some time mentoring and supporting children.

No, we don't.
If you believe that you have a duty to do so, then by all means go right ahread


I think we do, and I'm currently working on global projects to do just that.

Our problem on this planet is the age old issue of ego, Stone Age ideas about religion, and inability to cooperate on a world scale. That being the case, you're right. No, we don't.
 
2013-08-25 10:54:01 PM  
What's that? I didn't hear you over the sound of me having a day off tomorrow, and having no responsibility to watch a kid.
 
2013-08-25 10:54:12 PM  
So... what about us parents who only have one child?  I only have 8 years left until she's off to college.  Doing my part to reduce the population in a manageable fashion.
 
2013-08-25 11:03:58 PM  
I've had a few drinks so I'm gonna get a little politically incorrect here. I would like to see productive members of society reproducing at the same level as those who are not productive, who live on welfare and refuse to raise their children properly (i.e. without fathers or supervision). I would like it to be possible for women who get a degree and establish careers also marry and reproduce, as much as those who don't.
 
2013-08-25 11:05:49 PM  
Stepchildren.

You skip all the baby stuff this way.
 
2013-08-25 11:10:13 PM  
img607.imageshack.us
 
2013-08-25 11:10:38 PM  
If you want kids because you love kids, your focus is on the kid and you will probably be a decent parent.
If you are having kids so that someone will take care of you in your old age, I got news for you - They won't.
They'll have lives (and possibly kids) of their own and be too busy for you. Ask around - how many people do you know who spend significant time nursing an elder relative? How much time did they spend at an old folk home visiting an elder relative? How many were in a gathering surrounding a relative's death bed? Now compare that number with the number of elderly in rest homes, hospices, and nursing homes.

My grandparents moved to Arizona a couple decades before they died. We visited a couple times, but no, we did not support my grandparents in their old age. They did that with the money they had saved up over their lifetimes. You need to plan to support yourself in your old age and not plan to be a leach on your kids. If the only reason you have kids is to leach off them later in life, you will not be a parent worthy of their time or money when you get old.
 
2013-08-25 11:15:45 PM  

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: Koodz: Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: Ideal number is 2 or 3 kids for a couple in a developed country. Replace yourself and your spouse and maybe have one more for good measure/replace the kids who die before procreating (drown, sick, poisoned, etc).
Breeding like rabbits, while fun, is what's done in the third world because 2/3 of those kids will die before procreating.

Why replace the kids who die?  What's wrong with slowly stepping down the population in a controlled manner until people have breathing room and resources again?

Because some of the kids who die didn't die of their own stupidity. If you could magically enforce only one boy and one girl per couple, you'd have a population decline due to accidental death (carbon monoxide poisoning as an example), choosing the celibate monastic life, the retarded, the natural death ones (baby was born with severely shriveled lungs and died in two days), and those who turn out homosexual (assuming they didn't spread seed before discovering their preference). That extra kid offsets the accidents of history and keeps population stable for future commitments (like pensions and insurance pools) rather than allowing more variable swings in growth/death like we have now with the Boomers.

While some people do think that we as a species are maxed out, I would disagree because famine and healthcare problems exist in the world because of political and geographic distribution issues (like aid workers being target practice in tribal Africa) not production limitations from the developed nations. I think that somewhere between 15 and 20 billion would be a more natural limit if renewable energy and cloning were to be really boosted (if cows don't have souls, who cares if you're eating the same one ten thousand times). The biggest problem is water, but desalination can work if sunlight and wind and thorium reactors can be more universal.

And as a second bonus, having larger populations means a greater push into reducing the cost per pound for orbit, which leads to the desire to become a multi-planet species.


I've lived in Japan and spent time in Hong Kong. I don't want your 20 billion pop world. I'll be happy to die before we get there.
 
2013-08-25 11:16:33 PM  
I've had a few drinks so I'm gonna get a little politically incorrect here. I would like to see productive members of society reproducing at the same level as those who are not productive,

Unfortunately, the act of having kids, and raising them properly, makes a productive person less productive. You can't stay at the same level of productivity while giving a child the time and energy they need. So you either need to educate the children of unproductive parents (ie spend money on schooling) while letting the productive people produce, or accept a reduction of GDP.
 
2013-08-25 11:17:45 PM  
WTF?  You can't guilt someone into something when they only have a heart big enough to love themselves exclusively.  Take that weak sauce to a breeder forum.
 
2013-08-25 11:22:01 PM  

Koodz: I've lived in Japan and spent time in Hong Kong. I don't want your 20 billion pop world. I'll be happy to die before we get there.


I like how the number (and not the parts about expanded energy, evolving distribution methods, post-planetary exploration, or cloning) is the thing you focused on.

BIG NUMBERS ARE SCARY!
 
2013-08-25 11:28:15 PM  
I don't have kids. I am in fact sterile, now. And I put up with endless amounts of crap about it at work. Coworkers trying to set me up, people getting shocked when I say I'm never having kids. "You don't know that!" "You'll change your mind!" One guy gave me so much crap this spring I had to take it to supervision because he would not shut it down.

Look, I'm pretty sure it's best for people who don't like kids to not have them, and I'd really appreciate it if society would ease back on the pressure. There are lots and LOTS of crappy parents out there who should have never, EVER had children but felt like they had to. Almost half the pregnancies in the US aren't planned and that is not a good thing. Kids should only be born into homes that want them.

/aromantic cis straight chick
//every day a news story pops up that makes me glad I'm fixed
 
2013-08-25 11:46:48 PM  

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: Koodz: I've lived in Japan and spent time in Hong Kong. I don't want your 20 billion pop world. I'll be happy to die before we get there.

I like how the number (and not the parts about expanded energy, evolving distribution methods, post-planetary exploration, or cloning) is the thing you focused on.

BIG NUMBERS ARE SCARY!


I'm going to jump on QA's space nutter bandwagon for tonight. It's cute that you think all that sci fi technology will solve the pink goo problem
 
2013-08-25 11:52:17 PM  
I have a simply brilliant idea.

We should spay and neuter the Quiverfull folks.

From orbit.
 
2013-08-26 12:08:12 AM  
I just had a baby within the past month. My husband is one of those people who always wanted to be a father. I'm one of those people who's been ambivalent toward becoming a mother. Caring for a newborn is the most stressful thing I've ever done in my life. It's more stressful than my comprehensive exams; it's more stressful than when the economy tanked and both of us were working full-time jobs and still not making quite enough money. I'm still reeling from hormones and sleep deprivation, and I'm breastfeeding, so I'm literally being drained of my energy--and here's a helpless human being who demands all my attention. It's tough. I tell myself I made the right decision, but that's mostly because there's really no going back now.

So, I respect people who decide to have kids. I respect people who decide not to have kids. It's not for everyone. I'm not entirely convinced it's for me...but my little guy is really adorable, and he's going to smile someday.
 
2013-08-26 12:09:28 AM  

Anthracite: When i'm old ill be surrounded by grandkids and family.

Love is reason enough.


Just curious, how much time do/did you spend with your grandparents?
 
2013-08-26 12:25:39 AM  

Forty-Two: I just had a baby within the past month. My husband is one of those people who always wanted to be a father. I'm one of those people who's been ambivalent toward becoming a mother. Caring for a newborn is the most stressful thing I've ever done in my life. It's more stressful than my comprehensive exams; it's more stressful than when the economy tanked and both of us were working full-time jobs and still not making quite enough money. I'm still reeling from hormones and sleep deprivation, and I'm breastfeeding, so I'm literally being drained of my energy--and here's a helpless human being who demands all my attention. It's tough. I tell myself I made the right decision, but that's mostly because there's really no going back now.

So, I respect people who decide to have kids. I respect people who decide not to have kids. It's not for everyone. I'm not entirely convinced it's for me...but my little guy is really adorable, and he's going to smile someday.



It gets better, and easier. The first few months are the hardest. Once you are able to start pumping and storing your milk, the best piece of advice I can give you is this...alternate nights where one of you gets up so that the other one can sleep. Alternating shifts only leaves you both tired and grumpy. My wife and I figured this out early and it saved us lots of grief.

Also...the baby blues are a real thing. If these feelings persist, talk to someone about it. Doesn't make you a bad mom. Lots of women go through it.
 
2013-08-26 12:28:23 AM  

Ringshadow: /aromantic cis straight chick


img.4plebs.org
 
2013-08-26 12:29:49 AM  

KrispyKritter: there is no shortage of unemployed/underemployed white trash morans cranking out ankle biters. the sooner we start spaying and neutering the masses the better.


F*ck that. Neutron bombs. Destroy the people and leave the infrastructure intact.
 
2013-08-26 12:32:35 AM  

profplump: lostcat: She looks miserable most of the time I see her. She says that there is nobody left in the world who cares if she lives or dies.

So someone who built their entire social structure around genetics is sad when her gene pool runs dry. You don't say.

If only there was some way to build relationships without a dependence on DNA. But we all know that's not possible.


Indeed. I certainly didn't spend a large amount of the Gen Con time hanging out with my online gaming guild people... who I think of as my second family, and who in fact 'get me' more than some of my blood relatives...

Nope. Nothing to see here. Only genetic relations matter!
 
2013-08-26 12:35:31 AM  
Yet another thing people want to fight over, but shouldn't.
 
2013-08-26 12:36:19 AM  
My wife and I had kids... There are days I wish I hadn't...

... Take today for instance. I just found out my kid threw out a video game that I hadn't gotten a chance to play yet. I did, however, figure out where all our dish towels were vanishing to. He's been throwing EVERYTHING out when he's done with it.
 
2013-08-26 12:36:33 AM  

theMightyRegeya: Ringshadow: /aromantic cis straight chick

[400x300 from http://img.4plebs.org/boards/tg/image/1366/79/1366795463230.jpg image 400x300]


Basically my idea of an ideal relationship would be to go to a metal show, fark the pictures off the wall then play video games until four AM, and at no point do we sit down and get touchy feely about it. No flowers, no frippery, no candlelight dinners, no monopolizing my time because I won't monopolize yours.

/doesn't understand 'white people smiling at each other in the rain' movies
//I have no innate need or drive for that crap, sue me
 
2013-08-26 12:43:15 AM  

Forty-Two: I just had a baby within the past month. My husband is one of those people who always wanted to be a father. I'm one of those people who's been ambivalent toward becoming a mother. Caring for a newborn is the most stressful thing I've ever done in my life. It's more stressful than my comprehensive exams; it's more stressful than when the economy tanked and both of us were working full-time jobs and still not making quite enough money. I'm still reeling from hormones and sleep deprivation, and I'm breastfeeding, so I'm literally being drained of my energy--and here's a helpless human being who demands all my attention. It's tough. I tell myself I made the right decision, but that's mostly because there's really no going back now.

So, I respect people who decide to have kids. I respect people who decide not to have kids. It's not for everyone. I'm not entirely convinced it's for me...but my little guy is really adorable, and he's going to smile someday.


Congrats! One thing to keep in mind with babies is keep your eye on them because they can get into trouble quicker than you think, especially when they become mobile. Also, don't coddle them too much. They're going to fall down, get banged up, eat some dirt, slap or bite another kid and vomit someplace inappropriate often in their childhood. Let them do those things but hug them when they need it. Take lots and lots of pictures. And remember, the goofy stuff they do makes for great family stories when they get older.
 
2013-08-26 12:51:28 AM  

Godscrack: More anti gay propaganda from Christian 'pro family' groups.

They want to you procreate and have many children, then they turn around and push for stricter immigration laws that rip families apart.


Holy shiat did you not bother reading the article...   But then again, political people are always moronic extremists and fairly retarded in their thinking. Sheep never bother doing anything with initiative. That article was fairly neutral and merely examined a trend. Idiot.

Anyways, I never bothered having kids myself. Didn't see a point really. More than enough people in the world and frankly that 1 or 2% of the time that are great experiences come at a cost of 99 to 98% of the time that are awful ones and needless hardship and annoyance. Want a kid? Steal a sibling's or friend's for a few hours or even a day... You will be disabused of the notion of wanting to own it yourself.

As a small business owner, I've seen it firsthand, having children is the death of all ambition. Something about becoming/being a parent turns your employees into very lackluster, terrible assets with no verve, imagination, or ambition beyond being schlubs and getting by everyday without effort. I make it a point to hire young people or single, middle-aged folk to work for me. They are hungry and do well.
 
2013-08-26 12:54:56 AM  

Ringshadow: /doesn't understand 'white people smiling at each other in the rain' movies


It hides the tears.
 
2013-08-26 01:20:51 AM  
7 Billion people and counting. If you want to have kids (and have the financial means to raise them) then go right ahead. Don't act like I'm some selfish asshole for not creating my own though, that really ticks me off when people do that. My whole region has been getting crowded, the last thing we really need are more people.
 
2013-08-26 01:25:21 AM  

LemSkroob: We tend to speak of going child-free (or is it childless?) in hushed tones, mainly to people who we suspect may share our point of view.

Its not 'Chlidless' you sans-soul ginger. Childless (like homeless) implies a lack of something. Childfree is a choice.


Do childless people not lack children? They may lack them by choice and be happy, but they're no less childless.
 
2013-08-26 02:07:54 AM  

jotamono: lostcat:But then, but the time we're that old, Diablo 12 is going to keep your mind off of all that crap, I'm betting.

I think you meant diablo 4.


I laughed.
 
2013-08-26 02:46:40 AM  

lostcat: Didn't make it through the article. Don't really care what some columnist in Omaha thinks.

I can understand people in my own generation (and younger) not wanting to have kids. We're all pretty self-centered (can't think of a way to say that that doesn't sound negative, but there you have it). Our childhoods have extended way beyond what previous generations were able to get away with. Video games are the norm for people in their 20s and 30s (I'm in my 40s, and I've spent a solid part of this weekend playing Ingress and Baldur's Gate).

So, why would we want to have to put up with mewling, crying, attention-needing kids? I never wanted a kid, even through my mid 30s. Too much hassle. Too much responsibility. Not enough me time. Not enough time/energy for good sex. Who needs that?

But then I was talking to a neighbor who is in her 60s. Her mother died recently, and she has no husband or children. She looks miserable most of the time I see her. She says that there is nobody left in the world who cares if she lives or dies. She said she never expected that feeling. But now that she has no living family, she feels like a stranger on the planet.

I look at my parents. They are just breaking 70. Their brothers and sisters are dropping like flies. All they have left is me and my sister to care about them, visit them and give them any emotional support.

So, while I understand my friends and peers who think having kids is crazy, I don't know how many of them have really, honestly thought about the end of their lives (who spends time dwelling that anyway?) and considered what this world will feel like when everyone they love is dead, and they have no family left on the face of the earth.

But then, but the time we're that old, Diablo 12 is going to keep your mind off of all that crap, I'm betting.


Just going to throw this out there.

 You can play video games with your kids.

 The mewling crying phase ends pretty quickly in all honesty (it doesn't *feel* that way sometimes, but suddenly one day you look back and it's gone).

 This evening my husband flew IL2 (an old favorite of his) with our 9 year old son. Even with the realism cranked up our son flies plenty good enough to play with him (granted our son is an airplane nut too. ;) )

 He also joins us playing other games as well, everything from co-op dungeon crawlers to racing games. He's quite good and so it's a lot of fun!

/used to listen to the weekly WoW family meeting at a breakfast house back in the day, where the family of 4 discussed strategy over pancakes and eggs.
 
2013-08-26 02:48:35 AM  

BlousyBrown: Witness99: I'm 41 with two dogs and an SO.

I can see this argument from both sides. I do feel somewhat guilty for not having kids (but plan to adopt later btw) because somebody has to do the work of raising the next generation. To be callous, the next group of working taxpayers that will fund our future elderly asses (unless you're super successful and rich and don't need that). It seems like a pretty reasonable duty to society.

OTOH, it's a lot harder now to pull everything off. I REALLY wanted kids in my 30s and put a lot of effort into relationships. It doesn't always work out. If I had it to do all over again, I would work on kids/marriage first and career later.

But on the other, other hand...I do also have to admit that being a DINK (double income no kids) is fun too. Maybe the secret is to just be happy with what situation you land in and don't keep second guessing your decisions :)

I agree don't second guess your choices. So far my bf and I have chosen to remain child-free and there is no chance we'll change our minds.
Not gonna feel bad about it.


This.

 Just don't hurt anyone and try to enjoy life.

/don't double guess yourself and don't let anyone tell you your life is over if you have/don't have kids.
//both ways can be a lot of fun.
 
2013-08-26 02:49:14 AM  
Oh you poor oppressed childless adults.
With your lack of expenses, plenty of free time and flexibility, and minimal responsibility for other people.

You are so discriminated against.
 
2013-08-26 02:52:18 AM  

emjoi: Oh you poor oppressed childless adults.
With your lack of expenses, plenty of free time and flexibility, and minimal responsibility for other people.

You are so discriminated against.


Buying groceries is kind of hard. I never manage to use all the celery before it goes bad.

/why do they insist on packing two bundles of stalks together?
 
2013-08-26 02:56:59 AM  
Aside from the fact that I am not currently in a relationship with a woman, and thus have no capability of producing children, I will never have unprotected sex with a woman again in my lifetime. Why? Because I feel that life is pointless.

I used to believe in God. I used to believe that there was some sort of "master plan" that I was a part of. But over the years, after seeing the evidence (wars, sickness, disease, tornadoes, hurricanes, etc), and realizing that life and death was so *random*, that good people die, bad people live, and nothing a person did in life could change that, I came to the conclusion that there is no master plan, that there is no supreme being who gives a rat's ass about us or our well being, and that we, as human beings, are nothing more than a cosmic, genetic, accident. We are just the result of some sort of genetic evolution, where a bunch of gloopy cells floating in water found different ways to combine together, and eventually, over millions or billions of years, what we now know as humans is the result. We are not "God's children", so no one cares about us or watches over us. Nothing we do matters, and nothing we do is being paid attention to. Unfortunately, contrary to a lot of atheists,  I don't believe that death is the end of me. I can not and will not accept the idea that when I die, everything just goes black for all eternity. My consciousness, my intelligence, my "spirit", if you want to call it that, will not simply wink out of existence when I die. Unfortunately, it will continue on. But, it will have no where to *go*. Since there is no God, that means there is no heaven, no hell, no destination. My consciousness will float free from my body... and go nowhere. I will probably stay sane for a time, remembering things that happened during my life, but eventually, my consciousness will be overcome by the sheer *emptiness* of it all, and I will go stark, raving, mad. And that is how I, and everyone else, spends eternity.

So why would I chose to not have children? Because I don't want to create another life that ultimately has to go through that sort of existence. It is better if they are simply never born.
 
2013-08-26 03:07:03 AM  

emjoi: Oh you poor oppressed childless adults.
With your lack of expenses, plenty of free time and flexibility, and minimal responsibility for other people.

You are so discriminated against.



You're right, I'm lucky to be unable to have children. I'm lucky to have relatives who call me "satanic" and "diseased" every time they hear my name. I'm lucky to have had an employer deny me a promotion on the basis of "I want a real man for this job, and anyone without children isn't a real man". I'm lucky to be constantly reminded that I'll always be the outcast of society, because I'm physically unable to do "what humans are supposed to do".

But please, feel free to share your vast wealth of knowledge about the constant euphoria that childless people have every moment of their lives. Clearly you've lived as a childless adult for far longer than I have, so you should know exactly how one can overcome the societal norms dictating that anyone who is childless at 30 is a complete failure at life and deserves to die alone.
 
2013-08-26 03:25:14 AM  
Zebulon:  Because I feel that life is pointless.

Life is for having fun and enjoying yourself and your loved ones. That's the point; that's the master plan.
 
2013-08-26 05:22:55 AM  

Zebulon: Aside from the fact that I am not currently in a relationship with a woman, and thus have no capability of producing children, I will never have unprotected sex with a woman again in my lifetime. Why? Because I feel that life is pointless.


I don't want to sound flip, but you might consider talking to someone about your feelings. I kind of remember going through a phase like that when I was in my early 30s and my first long-term relationship had fallen apart.

Also, never say never. You'd be surprised how radically different you can think about things, even in a relatively short span of time.
 
2013-08-26 05:42:01 AM  

lostcat: Zebulon: Aside from the fact that I am not currently in a relationship with a woman, and thus have no capability of producing children, I will never have unprotected sex with a woman again in my lifetime. Why? Because I feel that life is pointless.

I don't want to sound flip, but you might consider talking to someone about your feelings. I kind of remember going through a phase like that when I was in my early 30s and my first long-term relationship had fallen apart.

Also, never say never. You'd be surprised how radically different you can think about things, even in a relatively short span of time.


I tried talking to a good friend of mine about my loss of faith and such a couple years ago. I quickly stopped once I realized that I was making him question his *own* faith, and I didn't want to drag him down to my level. I have thought about trying to go to some sort of counseling or treatment for depression, but I don't know how they would handle the "lack of faith" part. I don't want to start some sort of treatment only to have them tell me they can't help and I need to go talk to a priest or pastor.
 
2013-08-26 06:39:33 AM  

Zebulon: I don't want to start some sort of treatment only to have them tell me they can't help and I need to go talk to a priest or pastor.


I also don't want to have to go to work if it doesn't lead to some sort of a career. I don't want to go on a first date if it's not going to lead to a marriage. I don't want to go to the vending machine because it might steal my money (a legitimate concern in my area!).

Total loss of interest in being is a pretty serious thing dude. You should get that checked out, even if it takes going to more than one source. I think that with the proper help, you will regain your enjoyment and purpose in life, and realize that you are a worthwhile person. Good luck.
 
2013-08-26 07:03:23 AM  
Do you people really want me to produce a bunch of little mini me's?
 
2013-08-26 07:58:48 AM  

Zebulon: I tried talking to a good friend of mine about my loss of faith and such a couple years ago. I quickly stopped once I realized that I was making him question his *own* faith, and I didn't want to drag him down to my level. I have thought about trying to go to some sort of counseling or treatment for depression, but I don't know how they would handle the "lack of faith" part. I don't want to start some sort of treatment only to have them tell me they can't help and I need to go talk to a priest or pastor.


Oh, you're not depressed, you're just an adult now. No sky daddy gives a crap about you. Boohoo. Find a hobby or something.
 
2013-08-26 08:41:09 AM  

universebetween: dont have kids

will never have kids.

very glad.

fark you for having kids.


Hey, fark you buddy.
 
2013-08-26 08:44:47 AM  

Fallout Zone: KeithLM: Where's the guilt in this article?  Seems to me the author supports the idea that people should make this decision for themselves and shouldn't feel guilty about it.

Yeah, the headline reflects more on subby than reality.  Seems like a even-handed article.


If anything, the last sentence in the article--where she tries to have her cake and eat it, too--tells us its cool not to have kids and you won't be missing anything.
 
2013-08-26 08:52:40 AM  

lostcat: Didn't make it through the article. Don't really care what some columnist in Omaha thinks.

I can understand people in my own generation (and younger) not wanting to have kids. We're all pretty self-centered (can't think of a way to say that that doesn't sound negative, but there you have it). Our childhoods have extended way beyond what previous generations were able to get away with. Video games are the norm for people in their 20s and 30s (I'm in my 40s, and I've spent a solid part of this weekend playing Ingress and Baldur's Gate).

So, why would we want to have to put up with mewling, crying, attention-needing kids? I never wanted a kid, even through my mid 30s. Too much hassle. Too much responsibility. Not enough me time. Not enough time/energy for good sex. Who needs that?

But then I was talking to a neighbor who is in her 60s. Her mother died recently, and she has no husband or children. She looks miserable most of the time I see her. She says that there is nobody left in the world who cares if she lives or dies. She said she never expected that feeling. But now that she has no living family, she feels like a stranger on the planet.

I look at my parents. They are just breaking 70. Their brothers and sisters are dropping like flies. All they have left is me and my sister to care about them, visit them and give them any emotional support.

So, while I understand my friends and peers who think having kids is crazy, I don't know how many of them have really, honestly thought about the end of their lives (who spends time dwelling that anyway?) and considered what this world will feel like when everyone they love is dead, and they have no family left on the face of the earth.

But then, but the time we're that old, Diablo 12 is going to keep your mind off of all that crap, I'm betting.


Don't you find that as you get older, games and whatever entertainment or activities you use to distract yourself from life just don't really do their job as well as they used to? Do you re-watch movies or re-play through games less these days than you did before, simply because they aren't as fulfilling as they used to be?
 
2013-08-26 08:53:28 AM  
If you decide to be child-free/childless it is certainly your decision... but then don't complain when, in a few years, there are more of those people making decisions for you.
 
2013-08-26 09:19:02 AM  

Witness99: I've had a few drinks so I'm gonna get a little politically incorrect here. I would like to see productive members of society reproducing at the same level as those who are not productive, who live on welfare and refuse to raise their children properly (i.e. without fathers or supervision). I would like it to be possible for women who get a degree and establish careers also marry and reproduce, as much as those who don't.


Funny'd!
 
2013-08-26 09:36:48 AM  
You see so many articles these days about those choosing to be child-free and articles about women turning into head-of-household. You don't read about those couples that may want to have kids someday soon which don't want to be a leech on the social "safety net" to do so. I hear the argument that "oh we were younger than you when we had you and we made it work." Yes, my parents did make it work. Neither of them had a college education nor thousands of dollars in student debt on top of the expense of my brother and I plus their mortgage.
I consider my husband and I lucky to be able to afford our mortgage and all our bills with a smidge leftover for maybe one night out a month. Knowing that I am the primary source of income means that if I leave work to have a child, there would be no way to cover everything on the hubby's pay. One needs to be responsible in their decisions to avoid being a drain on society. It'd be nice if people thought to consider someone's possible financial standing before firing off the loaded "When are you having kids?" question. I'm sick of saying "When we win the lottery... which we don't play." or "When the student debt is paid off."
 
2013-08-26 10:16:53 AM  

Peekoo: They can't make me feel guilty for something I've never wanted.  It's like trying to make me feel guilty for not eating beets.  Not possible.


Mmm beets, cooked slowly with butter and dressed with lemon juice...

/Kids, no thanks
 
2013-08-26 10:46:45 AM  

FunkOut: Ah, there's nothing so enjoyable as people who had kids and people whose chose not to have kids both telling everyone how this makes them special and better than the other side.


Er, I've never known anyone who deliberately doesn't have kids to act as if it "makes them special." I have, however, met a ton of new parents who speak to me as though my life is worthless until I experience the miracle of having a child. "It just changes you! It makes you complete! You have no idea what you're missing! My life was so empty before having my snowflake!"...implying that my life is empty, too

Have you ever been irritated by a particularly pushy Christian who won't shut up about how your life will become puppy dogs and unicorn farts if you just saw the light? There are plenty of parents out there with the same attitude. Well, I'm a confirmed bachelor (I live with my GF - what I mean is no marriage and no kids), and I'm just fine with it. Yet I'm frequently informed that I'm missing out and should be pitied.
 
2013-08-26 11:00:32 AM  

Ringshadow: theMightyRegeya: Ringshadow: /aromantic cis straight chick

[400x300 from http://img.4plebs.org/boards/tg/image/1366/79/1366795463230.jpg image 400x300]

Basically my idea of an ideal relationship would be to go to a metal show, fark the pictures off the wall then play video games until four AM, and at no point do we sit down and get touchy feely about it. No flowers, no frippery, no candlelight dinners, no monopolizing my time because I won't monopolize yours.

/doesn't understand 'white people smiling at each other in the rain' movies
//I have no innate need or drive for that crap, sue me


www.startrek.com
 
2013-08-26 11:05:24 AM  

dickfreckle: FunkOut: Ah, there's nothing so enjoyable as people who had kids and people whose chose not to have kids both telling everyone how this makes them special and better than the other side.

Er, I've never known anyone who deliberately doesn't have kids to act as if it "makes them special." I have, however, met a ton of new parents who speak to me as though my life is worthless until I experience the miracle of having a child. "It just changes you! It makes you complete! You have no idea what you're missing! My life was so empty before having my snowflake!"...implying that my life is empty, too

Have you ever been irritated by a particularly pushy Christian who won't shut up about how your life will become puppy dogs and unicorn farts if you just saw the light? There are plenty of parents out there with the same attitude. Well, I'm a confirmed bachelor (I live with my GF - what I mean is no marriage and no kids), and I'm just fine with it. Yet I'm frequently informed that I'm missing out and should be pitied.


You'd like me. I tell childless people what they want to hear all the time. It confirms their lifestyle and I get to vent a bit about my family. Then I go back to the fam and continue living a fulfilled life without pushing it in anyone's face.
 
2013-08-26 11:22:48 AM  

rka: Nabb1: When you're old and dependent on the next generation of workers to provide for your care, just remember you called them "parasites," and try to appreciate the irony before you die. Alone.

You ever spent any time in an old-folks home?

People with kids, people without kids, doesn't matter. They are all equally miserable. Medical science can prolong life but it can't make it actually worth living in many cases.

You ever had the experience of caring for an elderly relative who is just hanging on enough to suck every resource that they had and even their children had dry in some mockery of "quality of life"?

Dying alone is not my fear. Watching my older relatives (including my parents in the alarmingly rapidly approaching futre) hang on until the bitter end is.


-------------------------
My plan is to suckle on the working end of a shot gun the exact second it becomes apparent that I will need someone to "take care of me." I value independence more than most things in this world--I'll never let anyone else "take care of me."

I have never felt the slightest twinge of a maternal instinct in all of my life. I hated kids even when I was one. I have been able to accomplish amazing things in my life time. My life would have been ruined by having kids.
 
2013-08-26 11:35:01 AM  
2 local bumper stickers~ "If you can't feed'em, don't breed'em"
                                       "Cats Not Kids"
/works here, we're happy
 
2013-08-26 02:55:26 PM  

Nabb1: grumpfuff: Nabb1: pla: Nabb1 : When you're old and dependent on the next generation of workers to provide for your care, just remember you called them "parasites," and try to appreciate the irony before you die. Alone.

Thanks to not having kids, I'll most likely die with a positive net worth (though I'll do my damnedest to hit zero the day I die, make no mistake!). I'll have pretty young nurses wiping my arse once I can no longer handle that task.

And compared to what exactly? Kids grudgingly dragged in to the home for their monthly visit to grandma, so she can fail to remember their names and everyone has a good laugh and she doesn't even remember last month's visit next month?

Thanks, but no thanks. Glurge aside, I sincerely hope I still have the presence of mind when the doctors diagnose me with something fatal, so I can blow through the rest of my savings on hookers and blow, culminating with a swan-dive into a live volcano. You can have your crappy monthly "family time" at the home. I'll either go out with a bang, or won't know the difference for drooling on myself, thankyouverymuch.

/ Enjoy your choices.
// I will.  Or won't know the difference - Same thing.

If no one had kids, where would these "pretty young nurses" come from? Apart from your fantasies, we are actually in agreement - you aren't cut out for parenthood. Too many people like you who shouldn't have kids do, and the kids suffer for it. So, you've probably made the right choice. You can't be totally self-absorbed and be a good parent,

Considering how many people want kids as opposed to those who don't, that's a rather silly question.

As to the rest of your post..you sound bitter.

On the contrary. I'm not bitter at all. I think people like you would be terrible parents. I just find it funny that it's totally lost on you that one day you will essentially be a "parasite" - the creepy old lecher with no bowel control the nurses talk about. I admire people who are aware they aren't cut out for t ...


Whoever said I don't want kids? I was just pointing out you seem very angry at people who choose not to.
 
2013-08-26 03:01:36 PM  
I have not ever once in my life wanted to raise a child. I'm now 42. I'm not going to spin the wheel thinking "well gosh, maybe I'll change my mind once I have one". You can't take those things back to the store for a refund.
 
2013-08-26 03:41:08 PM  

Mambo Bananapatch: LemSkroob: We tend to speak of going child-free (or is it childless?) in hushed tones, mainly to people who we suspect may share our point of view.

Its not 'Chlidless' you sans-soul ginger. Childless (like homeless) implies a lack of something. Childfree is a choice.

Do childless people not lack children? They may lack them by choice and be happy, but they're no less childless.


Its a lack of something wanted. Infertility = childless. Snipping the tubes = childfree
 
2013-08-26 03:50:55 PM  

LemSkroob: Mambo Bananapatch: LemSkroob: We tend to speak of going child-free (or is it childless?) in hushed tones, mainly to people who we suspect may share our point of view.

Its not 'Chlidless' you sans-soul ginger. Childless (like homeless) implies a lack of something. Childfree is a choice.

Do childless people not lack children? They may lack them by choice and be happy, but they're no less childless.

Its a lack of something wanted. Infertility = childless. Snipping the tubes = childfree


Sure, but also

Infertility = childfree. Snipping the tubes = childless (assuming one didn't have children to start with).

Sorry, don't know why I'm being pedantic about this. I don't really care either way.
 
2013-08-26 04:08:13 PM  

dickfreckle: FunkOut: Ah, there's nothing so enjoyable as people who had kids and people whose chose not to have kids both telling everyone how this makes them special and better than the other side.

Er, I've never known anyone who deliberately doesn't have kids to act as if it "makes them special."


You don't spend much time around Fark then? I also personally know people who say things like "Ugh, kids are so horrible, they take up all the time and energy and money I could use for video games and beer and acting like a teenager in my 30s and 40s."
 
2013-08-26 04:38:18 PM  

Quantum Apostrophe: Zebulon: I tried talking to a good friend of mine about my loss of faith and such a couple years ago. I quickly stopped once I realized that I was making him question his *own* faith, and I didn't want to drag him down to my level. I have thought about trying to go to some sort of counseling or treatment for depression, but I don't know how they would handle the "lack of faith" part. I don't want to start some sort of treatment only to have them tell me they can't help and I need to go talk to a priest or pastor.

Oh, you're not depressed, you're just an adult now. No sky daddy gives a crap about you. Boohoo. Find a hobby or something.


If only he had some children to help him through this rough patch.

/"lack of faith" = waking up and smelling the coffee of the world
 
2013-08-26 04:48:56 PM  

Godscrack: More anti gay rising wages propaganda from Christian 'pro family' corporate groups.

They want to you procreate and have many children, then they turn around and push for stricter looser immigration laws that rip families apart

ensure everyone except C-level officers and senior finance types gets paid less.
 
2013-08-26 08:33:11 PM  
None of you want me to be in charge of children anyway. Let's just all be glad that I agree.
 
2013-08-26 10:21:24 PM  

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: Ideal number is 2 or 3 kids for a couple in a developed country. Replace yourself and your spouse and maybe have one more for good measure/replace the kids who die before procreating (drown, sick, poisoned, etc).
Breeding like rabbits, while fun, is what's done in the third world because 2/3 of those kids will die before procreating.


If each couple has 0 to 5 kids, the average can still be 2.1 per family. Lifestyles vary, life goals vary.

I'm not worried about the Idiocracy problem, since except for disabling conditions, smarts are much more determined by nurture than by nature. Nor am I worried about unequal distribution of wealth, provided that we fund schools adequately. Any loved, wanted and well educated poor kid will be better prepared for adult life than a semi-neglected, but materially pampered child of upper class professionals. Not that those are the only two options. Basically, disparate family sizes are okay, so long as people make the choices that are right for them. It evens out on the whole.
 
2013-08-26 10:44:17 PM  
Fafai:
Don't you find that as you get older, games and whatever entertainment or activities you use to distract yourself from life just don't really do their job as well as they used to? Do you re-watch movies or re-play through games less these days than you did before, simply because they aren't as fulfilling as they used to be?

Nope. Not so. Tetris, Pac-man, and Sonic the Hedgehog are still way more fun than all my new video games combined.
Also, I would rather watch The Princess Bride twice a week forever than these new crap remakes of toy marketing movies.

// YMMV, esp. if ur not dain bramaged.
 
2013-08-26 10:55:47 PM  
Not everyone came here for the sole purpose of reproduction.
 
2013-08-27 12:46:22 AM  

Quantum Apostrophe: Zebulon: I tried talking to a good friend of mine about my loss of faith and such a couple years ago. I quickly stopped once I realized that I was making him question his *own* faith, and I didn't want to drag him down to my level. I have thought about trying to go to some sort of counseling or treatment for depression, but I don't know how they would handle the "lack of faith" part. I don't want to start some sort of treatment only to have them tell me they can't help and I need to go talk to a priest or pastor.

Oh, you're not depressed, you're just an adult now. No sky daddy gives a crap about you. Boohoo. Find a hobby or something.


You just don't get it. I'm not just "Boo hoo, there is no sky daddy", I'm "Giving birth is BAD, since those kids are just going to die". I'm "It doesn't matter if you are good or evil, you all go to the same place". I'm "I might as well be a selfish asshole, since it doesn't matter anyway". I'm trying really, really hard to not just give up on good\/evil, and not just decide I can murder/steal/rape because it all DOESN'T farkING MATTER!!! If this life is ALL there is, then I should want EVERYTHING I can get my dirty little hands on, and the rest of you can all go fark YOURSELVES!!!

But I just CAN'T be that selfish. I CAN'T make myself give up. Even if NOTHING I do matters long-term, it very much *does* matter short term. So even if I think that life is simply a waste of time, I *have* to try and be nice to people, because all of us are in this shiathole together, and I don't want to be the reason why anyone else's brief life was shtty. Like I said, it might not matter long-term, but it does matter to ME. *cry*
 
2013-08-27 03:44:36 AM  
Zebulon:
Your thought process is like an irregular skin growth, probably not malignant but you should definitely get it checked by a doctor. No counselor worth his/her salt would regard lack of faith as a mental health disorder. However, being disturbed about your beliefs is something important to talk through. You'll feel better.
Maybe try some drugs too.
Under most circumstances, life is better than non-life, even though it's all temporary.
Not seeing that truth is indeed a symptom of a possible problem (as is excessive use of caps-lock).
 
2013-08-27 08:28:42 AM  

E5bie: Fafai:
Don't you find that as you get older, games and whatever entertainment or activities you use to distract yourself from life just don't really do their job as well as they used to? Do you re-watch movies or re-play through games less these days than you did before, simply because they aren't as fulfilling as they used to be?

Nope. Not so. Tetris, Pac-man, and Sonic the Hedgehog are still way more fun than all my new video games combined.
Also, I would rather watch The Princess Bride twice a week forever than these new crap remakes of toy marketing movies.

// YMMV, esp. if ur not dain bramaged.


This is pretty much exactly what I'm talking about. We don't disagree. The original person I was talking to was talking about new releases (Baldur's Gate 12). As you get old there's going to be less and less stuff to sedate yourself with if you only like the old nostalgia trips. Unless trying to break 100,000 pts on Pac-Man for the 8000th time, with arthiritis, really sounds like fun to you.

/did it once
//100,000
///Pac-Man
 
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