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(Slashdot)   NSA, deciding that spying on US citizens wasn't enough, turns its sights on the UN. Bonus: while listening in on the UN, they discovered that the Chinese were trying to listen in as well   (yro.slashdot.org) divider line 32
    More: Scary, NSA, Chinese, videoconferencing, Der Spiegel  
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7133 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Aug 2013 at 4:22 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

2013-08-25 05:22:47 PM
4 votes:

wesmon: You seem to have little understanding about what happened here. Snowden isn't sitting behind a computer leaking info every day. He downloaded a whole bunch of NSA data and gave it to The Guardian.

This is why new stories are coming out almost every day. They have a whole bunch of data to go through.


So why did he give that to The Guardian, if he was only interested in leaking about spying on US citizens?

PERHAPS, and this may be hard to believe, but perhaps Snowden behaved in an *incredibly* ill-thought out and irresponsible manner, didn't bother to check what he'd downloaded, and instead just handed a shiat ton of it off, even if it wasn't related to his whistleblowing!
2013-08-25 04:12:50 PM
3 votes:
I'm ok with the government spying on other countries.  I'm not ok with the government spying on American citizens (without probable cause backed by a warrant from a disinterested judge in accordance with the constitution and applicable state and federal law).
2013-08-25 06:42:35 PM
2 votes:

dittybopper: traylor: The good thing is that everyone working at NSA is now looking ahead to a few years of prison time. Maybe life sentence or death, depends on which country they are caught.

What?  It's *NEVER* been illegal to monitor the communications of other nations.  Ever.



The alleged spying activities are illegal. The US has a long-standing agreement with the UN stipulating that the US refrain from covert operations with regards to the UN's activities.
2013-08-25 05:16:47 PM
2 votes:
You mean, they weren't already listening?  Damn, as a U.S. citizen, I'm kind of pissed off.  That's their goddamn job, doing stuff like that.  And the UN is the one place I would think the NSA would have completely and totally wired.  Jesus, guys - a high-ranking official from almost every nation on earth is in one place, on U.S. soil*, and you assholes haven't been listening??

I guess they were already too busy spying on U.S. citizens.

*Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, "neutral ground"... It's in farking Manhattan for Cthulhu's sake.  Seriously.
2013-08-25 04:46:12 PM
2 votes:
Why is this being leaked by hero patriot Snowden?  It is widely known information about our international spying program the leak of which serves no purpose other than to make the US look bad and give other countries an opportunity to shake their tiny fists in rage and threaten to go back on deals with us.  I am sympathetic to leaks about potential violations vis a vis US citizens but this stuff is traitorous.
2013-08-25 04:40:31 PM
2 votes:

Mad_Radhu: Wouldn't security council nations like the US and China already be privy to anything important that was being discussed anyway? What's the point in knowing what strongly worded letter is being considered by the diplomat from Uzbekistan?


Thats cute, You think that diplomats are just there for diplomatic things and always go through proper channels
2013-08-25 04:00:55 PM
2 votes:
This is their job! I would be pissed if our signals intelligence agency wasn't doing this.
2013-08-25 03:08:09 PM
2 votes:
Should I have a problem with spying on the UN?
Should I be surprised that the Chinese were doing the same?
2013-08-25 03:05:32 PM
2 votes:
seriously, that this is a shock to anyone is a shock to me.  The super power level countries ALL engage in spying.... PERIOD.  This has been going on forever.
2013-08-26 01:59:14 AM
1 votes:
Iam shocked, Shocked that there is spying between countries.
2013-08-26 12:55:16 AM
1 votes:
This just in: every nation spies on every other nation. Shocking I know. This is Ric Romero, reporting!
2013-08-25 09:58:01 PM
1 votes:

spawn73: wesmon: And I would still call it whistleblowing. They have already caught plenty of wrongdoing. It is on the newspapers to not reveal harmful things. They should do the redacting.

And this revelation about the U.N. hardly classifies as traitorous to me.

Der Spiegel is German, they shouldn't, and won't, redact anything that harms USA.


The other thing to consider is that the Bundesnachtrichtendienst does the very same thing, and if the UN were headquartered in Bonn, Munich, or Berlin, you'd be hearing about the BND instead of the NSA, and it would be an American paper doing the revealing.

BTW, I love how the Germans bunch up their words into onebiguberwordofgreatimportance.
2013-08-25 09:49:49 PM
1 votes:

mtbhucker: Maybe you missed the part on how spying on the UN is illegal.


Actually, that's not really true.  it's  just a violation of an agreement.  I'll give you an example:  It's clearly a violation of diplomatic agreements to plant listening devices in the embassies of a nation you have diplomatic relations with.  But it's done by every nation that has the wherewithal to accomplish it nonetheless.  No one has ever been arrested and charged with doing so.  Ever.  Because it's not illegal for a government to monitor the communications of and bug the embassy of other nations.  And that is precisely what happened here.

It's how the game is played.  It's been played this way for hundreds of years:  The Black Chambers of Europe are a perfect example of it.  Diplomatic agreements notwithstanding, any nation that doesn't engage in that sort of behavior is just asking to be walked all over.
2013-08-25 07:48:48 PM
1 votes:

mtbhucker: Here, the NSA got caught doing its farking job for once, rather than listening in on an employee's husband's mistress, or reading our GMail.

Maybe you missed the part on how spying on the UN is illegal.


Pppffftt. This is the work the NSA should be doing-spying on the UN, foreign goverments etc. If they did not do this they would be negligent. Spying on American citizens without a warrant is the illegal activity we should be upset about not this.
2013-08-25 07:20:56 PM
1 votes:

dittybopper: I have absolutely *ZERO* problem with our nation listening in on the communications of foreign governments. It's their farking *JOB* to do so, in order to warn of impending attack. In fact, I used to do that very job when I was in the US Army. It is an appropriate, well-accepted, and normal thing for a government to monitor the diplomatic and military communications of other nations.


I also have zero problem with foreign governments listening in on our government's communication - it's equally their job to listen in to protect their citizens from potential problems our country can cause.  And, of course, our government has the right to counterintelligence, such as finding out the Chinese are sniffing U.N. traffic too.

Here, the NSA got caught doing its farking job for once, rather than listening in on an employee's husband's mistress, or reading our GMail.
2013-08-25 06:45:34 PM
1 votes:

bunner: Lip biting, dick squeezing, peephole monkeys drooling smugly on their super secret listening in decoder rings.  Grow the f*ck up.


I have absolutely *ZERO* problem with our nation listening in on the communications of foreign governments.  It's their farking *JOB* to do so, in order to warn of impending attack.  In fact, I used to do that very job when I was in the US Army.  It is an appropriate, well-accepted, and normal thing for a government to monitor the diplomatic and military communications of other nations.

I would be rightfully pissed if the US government wasn't doing so, because that means it's not doing it's job protecting the United States from potential attack.

What I do have a problem with is the unwarranted monitoring of "United States Persons", and that is where your ire should be directed, not towards the US monitoring diplomatic chatter, which is something it's been doing pretty much ever since the advent of electronic communications well over 100 years ago.
2013-08-25 06:40:37 PM
1 votes:

positronica: Those of you defending the NSA for spying within the UN are extremely shortsighted.  The entire purpose of the UN is to make sure another world war doesn't happen, by creating a venue where diplomacy among all countries is encouraged.  Granted, the UN is often less than efficient, and the grandstanding and rhetoric within is usually political and non-productive, but it's still all we've got.  When the NSA or China spy inside the UN, they help create an environment that will eventually convince other countries to speak less openly there, and to put less faith in the UN's diplomatic tools.  As soon as the NSA found out that the encryption systems for the UN were vulnerable, they should have gone to the UN and fixed the problem, and then gone to all the major players, such as China, and said, "Hey, we saw that there was a problem with the encrypted communications at the UN.  We don't know if you knew about this at all, but we fixed it, and here's how.  We hope that if you were concerned about engaging in open dialogue at the UN, that this will help reassure you of the UN's commitment to secure and honest diplomacy."

Unless you're someone who profits from the defense industry, then you should be encouraging the US to do everything to make sure that China emerges as a super-power that is our friend, ally, and economic partner, and not our rival.


Ah, yes, the long-discredited "Gentlemen don't read each other's mail" theory expressed by Henry L. Stimson, and later repudiated by him.
2013-08-25 06:36:06 PM
1 votes:
Those of you defending the NSA for spying within the UN are extremely shortsighted.  The entire purpose of the UN is to make sure another world war doesn't happen, by creating a venue where diplomacy among all countries is encouraged.  Granted, the UN is often less than efficient, and the grandstanding and rhetoric within is usually political and non-productive, but it's still all we've got.  When the NSA or China spy inside the UN, they help create an environment that will eventually convince other countries to speak less openly there, and to put less faith in the UN's diplomatic tools.  As soon as the NSA found out that the encryption systems for the UN were vulnerable, they should have gone to the UN and fixed the problem, and then gone to all the major players, such as China, and said, "Hey, we saw that there was a problem with the encrypted communications at the UN.  We don't know if you knew about this at all, but we fixed it, and here's how.  We hope that if you were concerned about engaging in open dialogue at the UN, that this will help reassure you of the UN's commitment to secure and honest diplomacy."

Unless you're someone who profits from the defense industry, then you should be encouraging the US to do everything to make sure that China emerges as a super-power that is our friend, ally, and economic partner, and not our rival.
2013-08-25 05:57:39 PM
1 votes:

Esroc: I'm perfectly alright with surveillance unclear about the value of privacy and its essential role in a Democracy.



FIFY

i651.photobucket.com
2013-08-25 05:54:26 PM
1 votes:
teknishn:

seriously, that this is a shock to anyone is a shock to me.


/ QFT

memecrunch.com
2013-08-25 05:46:10 PM
1 votes:

wesmon: Felgraf: wesmon: It looks like the amount he gave em he probably couldn't have checked all of it. That is the impression I am getting.

So, you agree with "incredibly irresponsible", then. Good to know.

Nope. The idea is it is the responsibility of the media to select what to reveal.

And I like how everyone here is arguing on one hand that this story was already common knowledge and then on the other trying to say it hurts our country. Because I guess Europe and the rest of the world is too stupid to have figured out yet.


Well, there's a difference between suspicion and proof.

And weird, so you absolve Snowden of any and all capability for what he did with the data he took? I hope you don't give him any props either, then, since he wasn't the one that chose to release the stuff about spying on americans, it was the media selecting what to reveal.

/and before you ask, yes. The detaining of Miranda was bullshiat.
2013-08-25 05:40:37 PM
1 votes:

wesmon: It looks like the amount he gave em he probably couldn't have checked all of it. That is the impression I am getting.


So, you agree with "incredibly irresponsible", then. Good to know.
2013-08-25 05:40:35 PM
1 votes:

Bslim: Remind me who the good guys are again.


The ones working on the side you are on for the purposes of most discussion. None of them are actually that morally good.
2013-08-25 05:33:11 PM
1 votes:

Lars The Canadian Viking: What's more interesting from that article is that they got into a private, encrypted network setup between embassies of the EU. That's a goldmine of data right there.


encrypted multicast (video conference)  must be a PITA to secure.

hack one participant and you get everything.

At least if they'd used IPsec instead of a VPN hosted in the US, there might have been a tad more security.
2013-08-25 05:15:26 PM
1 votes:

ps69: Why is this being leaked by hero patriot Snowden?  It is widely known information about our international spying program the leak of which serves no purpose other than to make the US look bad and give other countries an opportunity to shake their tiny fists in rage and threaten to go back on deals with us.  I am sympathetic to leaks about potential violations vis a vis US citizens but this stuff is traitorous.


You seem to have little understanding about what happened here. Snowden isn't sitting behind a computer leaking info every day. He downloaded a whole bunch of NSA data and gave it to The Guardian.

This is why new stories are coming out almost every day. They have a whole bunch of data to go through.
2013-08-25 05:02:00 PM
1 votes:

AliceBToklasLives: The US was spying on the closed sessions that led to the founding of the UN.

/also yep everyone spies on everyone else. There are spooks from Scotland Yard keeping an eye on Washington


Generally it is a good thing, too. Politicians and generals get all crazy and paranoid when they don't know what antagonistic nations are doing. Both sides knowing what the other was up to helped keep the Cold War from turning hot.
2013-08-25 04:51:48 PM
1 votes:

Piizzadude: Mad_Radhu: Wouldn't security council nations like the US and China already be privy to anything important that was being discussed anyway? What's the point in knowing what strongly worded letter is being considered by the diplomat from Uzbekistan?

Thats cute, You think that diplomats are just there for diplomatic things and always go through proper channels


Yeah, but what idiot would do any of those discussions through an encrypted communications system they didn't fully control. The real shady stuff would normally be happening back at the consulate. Hell, back in the Cold War years the UN guy from the USSR probably had no clue what the KGB folks back at the consulate were up to because you want to keep that info compartmentalized for the sake of security. Even if the guy has clearance, you don't tell him what he doesn't need to know.
2013-08-25 04:51:16 PM
1 votes:

TheOnion: I'm ok with the government spying on other countries.  I'm not ok with the government spying on American citizens (without probable cause backed by a warrant from a disinterested judge in accordance with the constitution and applicable state and federal law).


^^^ This.

It's the NSA's job to keep an eye on other countries, even our allies.
I have a problem when it turns it resources on US citizens.
2013-08-25 04:48:36 PM
1 votes:

TheOnion: backed by a warrant from a disinterested judge


Can't get more disinterested than FISA.
2013-08-25 04:35:19 PM
1 votes:
Spying on foreigners is what the NSA is for. Spying on Americans is the unacceptable bit.
2013-08-25 04:34:29 PM
1 votes:

sheep snorter: [i.imgur.com image 523x490]


Church of Scientology (Las Vegas) phone number leads me to believe this is a Operation Clambake spinoff.

www.xenu.net
2013-08-25 04:29:08 PM
1 votes:
Wouldn't security council nations like the US and China already be privy to anything important that was being discussed anyway? What's the point in knowing what strongly worded letter is being considered by the diplomat from Uzbekistan?
 
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