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(Slashdot)   NSA, deciding that spying on US citizens wasn't enough, turns its sights on the UN. Bonus: while listening in on the UN, they discovered that the Chinese were trying to listen in as well   (yro.slashdot.org) divider line 111
    More: Scary, NSA, Chinese, videoconferencing, Der Spiegel  
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7133 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Aug 2013 at 4:22 PM (48 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



111 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-08-25 03:05:32 PM
seriously, that this is a shock to anyone is a shock to me.  The super power level countries ALL engage in spying.... PERIOD.  This has been going on forever.
 
2013-08-25 03:08:09 PM
Should I have a problem with spying on the UN?
Should I be surprised that the Chinese were doing the same?
 
2013-08-25 04:00:55 PM
This is their job! I would be pissed if our signals intelligence agency wasn't doing this.
 
2013-08-25 04:12:50 PM
I'm ok with the government spying on other countries.  I'm not ok with the government spying on American citizens (without probable cause backed by a warrant from a disinterested judge in accordance with the constitution and applicable state and federal law).
 
2013-08-25 04:27:26 PM
i.imgur.com
 
2013-08-25 04:28:59 PM
I learned it from you, Dad, alright!?  I LEARNED IT FROM WATCHING YOU!
 
2013-08-25 04:29:08 PM
Wouldn't security council nations like the US and China already be privy to anything important that was being discussed anyway? What's the point in knowing what strongly worded letter is being considered by the diplomat from Uzbekistan?
 
2013-08-25 04:31:08 PM
These are the farkers wall hacking CoD.
 
2013-08-25 04:34:29 PM

sheep snorter: [i.imgur.com image 523x490]


Church of Scientology (Las Vegas) phone number leads me to believe this is a Operation Clambake spinoff.

www.xenu.net
 
2013-08-25 04:35:19 PM
Spying on foreigners is what the NSA is for. Spying on Americans is the unacceptable bit.
 
2013-08-25 04:36:52 PM

sheep snorter: [i.imgur.com image 523x490]


Wanna know what's funny about that, I just did a quick GIS and someone did research on that number. Apparently the Church of Scientology is trying to recruit followers by putting up these fake stickers (the phone number on the front goes to a Las Vegas office of theirs, either that or someone used the CoS # as a part of the fake sticker prank).
 
2013-08-25 04:40:31 PM

Mad_Radhu: Wouldn't security council nations like the US and China already be privy to anything important that was being discussed anyway? What's the point in knowing what strongly worded letter is being considered by the diplomat from Uzbekistan?


Thats cute, You think that diplomats are just there for diplomatic things and always go through proper channels
 
2013-08-25 04:42:47 PM
meh. everyone knew that everyone was trying to listen. that's why there are codes.
 
2013-08-25 04:43:06 PM
Who really cares what the UN is saying anyways?
 
2013-08-25 04:44:43 PM

Deep Contact: Who really cares what the UN is saying anyways?




If they don't have a leaked porno then I could give to shiats.
 
2013-08-25 04:46:12 PM
Why is this being leaked by hero patriot Snowden?  It is widely known information about our international spying program the leak of which serves no purpose other than to make the US look bad and give other countries an opportunity to shake their tiny fists in rage and threaten to go back on deals with us.  I am sympathetic to leaks about potential violations vis a vis US citizens but this stuff is traitorous.
 
2013-08-25 04:48:36 PM

TheOnion: backed by a warrant from a disinterested judge


Can't get more disinterested than FISA.
 
2013-08-25 04:51:16 PM

TheOnion: I'm ok with the government spying on other countries.  I'm not ok with the government spying on American citizens (without probable cause backed by a warrant from a disinterested judge in accordance with the constitution and applicable state and federal law).


^^^ This.

It's the NSA's job to keep an eye on other countries, even our allies.
I have a problem when it turns it resources on US citizens.
 
2013-08-25 04:51:48 PM

Piizzadude: Mad_Radhu: Wouldn't security council nations like the US and China already be privy to anything important that was being discussed anyway? What's the point in knowing what strongly worded letter is being considered by the diplomat from Uzbekistan?

Thats cute, You think that diplomats are just there for diplomatic things and always go through proper channels


Yeah, but what idiot would do any of those discussions through an encrypted communications system they didn't fully control. The real shady stuff would normally be happening back at the consulate. Hell, back in the Cold War years the UN guy from the USSR probably had no clue what the KGB folks back at the consulate were up to because you want to keep that info compartmentalized for the sake of security. Even if the guy has clearance, you don't tell him what he doesn't need to know.
 
2013-08-25 04:51:52 PM
Breaking news: intelligence agency gathers and analyzes intelligence, commences counter-intelligence mission in re same.
 
2013-08-25 04:57:35 PM
Better dead than Red, amirite?
 
2013-08-25 04:58:57 PM
The US was spying on the closed sessions that led to the founding of the UN.

/also yep everyone spies on everyone else. There are spooks from Scotland Yard keeping an eye on Washington
 
2013-08-25 04:59:24 PM
Remind me who the good guys are again.
 
2013-08-25 05:02:00 PM

AliceBToklasLives: The US was spying on the closed sessions that led to the founding of the UN.

/also yep everyone spies on everyone else. There are spooks from Scotland Yard keeping an eye on Washington


Generally it is a good thing, too. Politicians and generals get all crazy and paranoid when they don't know what antagonistic nations are doing. Both sides knowing what the other was up to helped keep the Cold War from turning hot.
 
2013-08-25 05:03:55 PM
The United States is as bad as Russia and China spying on its citizens and other governments.
 
2013-08-25 05:04:01 PM

b2theory: This is their job! I would be pissed if our signals intelligence agency wasn't doing this.


Not to mention that this is the job of every nation's spies.  Everyone spies on everyone else, next on ABC News Live from Ric Romero.
 
2013-08-25 05:04:20 PM
Ok, I'll bite, and I Ill actualy take the NSA's side on this one;

HEY UN, IF YOU DON'T LIKE GETTING BUGS, THEN MOVE THE HELL OUTTA NEW YORK!!!
 
2013-08-25 05:05:26 PM

Maul555: Ok, I'll bite, and I Ill actualy take the NSA's side on this one;

HEY UN, IF YOU DON'T LIKE GETTING BUGS, THEN MOVE THE HELL OUTTA NEW YORK!!!


I think the robotic cockroaches tipped them off.
 
2013-08-25 05:11:03 PM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: TheOnion: I'm ok with the government spying on other countries.  I'm not ok with the government spying on American citizens (without probable cause backed by a warrant from a disinterested judge in accordance with the constitution and applicable state and federal law).

^^^ This.

It's the NSA's job to keep an eye on other countries, even our allies.
I have a problem when it turns it resources on US citizens.


What about US citizens living abroad?
 
NFA [TotalFark]
2013-08-25 05:11:59 PM
Aren't we a part of the UN and involved in the talks?  Has our surveillance machine grown so large and out of control we're now spying on ourselves?
 
2013-08-25 05:15:26 PM

ps69: Why is this being leaked by hero patriot Snowden?  It is widely known information about our international spying program the leak of which serves no purpose other than to make the US look bad and give other countries an opportunity to shake their tiny fists in rage and threaten to go back on deals with us.  I am sympathetic to leaks about potential violations vis a vis US citizens but this stuff is traitorous.


You seem to have little understanding about what happened here. Snowden isn't sitting behind a computer leaking info every day. He downloaded a whole bunch of NSA data and gave it to The Guardian.

This is why new stories are coming out almost every day. They have a whole bunch of data to go through.
 
2013-08-25 05:16:47 PM
You mean, they weren't already listening?  Damn, as a U.S. citizen, I'm kind of pissed off.  That's their goddamn job, doing stuff like that.  And the UN is the one place I would think the NSA would have completely and totally wired.  Jesus, guys - a high-ranking official from almost every nation on earth is in one place, on U.S. soil*, and you assholes haven't been listening??

I guess they were already too busy spying on U.S. citizens.

*Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, "neutral ground"... It's in farking Manhattan for Cthulhu's sake.  Seriously.
 
2013-08-25 05:17:13 PM

MNguy: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: TheOnion: I'm ok with the government spying on other countries.  I'm not ok with the government spying on American citizens (without probable cause backed by a warrant from a disinterested judge in accordance with the constitution and applicable state and federal law).

^^^ This.

It's the NSA's job to keep an eye on other countries, even our allies.
I have a problem when it turns it resources on US citizens.

What about US citizens living abroad?


You've got bigger problems. This government believes it can drone US citizens living abroad.
 
2013-08-25 05:17:37 PM

FunkOut: Maul555: Ok, I'll bite, and I Ill actualy take the NSA's side on this one;

HEY UN, IF YOU DON'T LIKE GETTING BUGS, THEN MOVE THE HELL OUTTA NEW YORK!!!

I think the robotic cockroaches tipped them off.


i.imgur.com
 
2013-08-25 05:18:12 PM
badhatharry:

You've got bigger problems. This government believes it can drone US citizens living abroad.

*ducks*
 
2013-08-25 05:18:15 PM

FunkOut: Maul555: Ok, I'll bite, and I Ill actualy take the NSA's side on this one;

HEY UN, IF YOU DON'T LIKE GETTING BUGS, THEN MOVE THE HELL OUTTA NEW YORK!!!

I think the robotic cockroaches tipped them off.


cdn.uproxx.com
 
2013-08-25 05:19:50 PM
What's more interesting from that article is that they got into a private, encrypted network setup between embassies of the EU. That's a goldmine of data right there.
 
2013-08-25 05:22:47 PM

wesmon: You seem to have little understanding about what happened here. Snowden isn't sitting behind a computer leaking info every day. He downloaded a whole bunch of NSA data and gave it to The Guardian.

This is why new stories are coming out almost every day. They have a whole bunch of data to go through.


So why did he give that to The Guardian, if he was only interested in leaking about spying on US citizens?

PERHAPS, and this may be hard to believe, but perhaps Snowden behaved in an *incredibly* ill-thought out and irresponsible manner, didn't bother to check what he'd downloaded, and instead just handed a shiat ton of it off, even if it wasn't related to his whistleblowing!
 
2013-08-25 05:24:47 PM

Felgraf: wesmon: You seem to have little understanding about what happened here. Snowden isn't sitting behind a computer leaking info every day. He downloaded a whole bunch of NSA data and gave it to The Guardian.

This is why new stories are coming out almost every day. They have a whole bunch of data to go through.

So why did he give that to The Guardian, if he was only interested in leaking about spying on US citizens?

PERHAPS, and this may be hard to believe, but perhaps Snowden behaved in an *incredibly* ill-thought out and irresponsible manner, didn't bother to check what he'd downloaded, and instead just handed a shiat ton of it off, even if it wasn't related to his whistleblowing!


It looks like the amount he gave em he probably couldn't have checked all of it. That is the impression I am getting.
 
2013-08-25 05:25:04 PM

Lars The Canadian Viking: What's more interesting from that article is that they got into a private, encrypted network setup between embassies of the EU. That's a goldmine of data right there.


I still hold the most interesting ting was that they had to "get in" in the first place.  Jesus, it's in Manhattan, and built by U.S. workers.  The U.S. Intelligence community as a whole is completely incompetent if they let that opportunity get away when these things were built or installed.

Unless, of course, the whole Snowden thing is an elaborate ruse to leak out false or partial information that's less damning than the whole truth...
 
2013-08-25 05:27:07 PM
And I would still call it whistleblowing. They have already caught plenty of wrongdoing. It is on the newspapers to not reveal harmful things. They should do the redacting.

And this revelation about the U.N. hardly classifies as traitorous to me.
 
2013-08-25 05:29:00 PM

AeAe: The United States is as bad as Russia and China spying on its citizens and other governments.




The US is just as good as Russia and China on spying on their citizens.
 
2013-08-25 05:30:50 PM
wesmon:
This is why new stories are coming out almost every day. They have a whole bunch of data to go through.

This isn't a new story actually, it came out pretty soon after the whole Snowden thing started. Stuff like this is why these guys have a hard time being take seriously as whistle-blowers. The stuff about how much data the NSA was gathering about Americans was important and worthy of leaking. Operations targeting other nations are not, and those leaks hurt the US for no reason.
 
2013-08-25 05:31:55 PM

wesmon: And I would still call it whistleblowing. They have already caught plenty of wrongdoing. It is on the newspapers to not reveal harmful things. They should do the redacting.

And this revelation about the U.N. hardly classifies as traitorous to me.


This revelation? The NSA was acting according to its mandate. Next thing you know we will find out that the DOD is actually an organization of heavily armed US government employees!
 
2013-08-25 05:33:11 PM

Lars The Canadian Viking: What's more interesting from that article is that they got into a private, encrypted network setup between embassies of the EU. That's a goldmine of data right there.


encrypted multicast (video conference)  must be a PITA to secure.

hack one participant and you get everything.

At least if they'd used IPsec instead of a VPN hosted in the US, there might have been a tad more security.
 
2013-08-25 05:35:18 PM

b2theory: wesmon: And I would still call it whistleblowing. They have already caught plenty of wrongdoing. It is on the newspapers to not reveal harmful things. They should do the redacting.

And this revelation about the U.N. hardly classifies as traitorous to me.

This revelation? The NSA was acting according to its mandate. Next thing you know we will find out that the DOD is actually an organization of heavily armed US government employees!


So what is the complaint about the story then?
 
2013-08-25 05:36:08 PM
Are we still pretending that the Chinese are our friends?
 
2013-08-25 05:40:35 PM

Bslim: Remind me who the good guys are again.


The ones working on the side you are on for the purposes of most discussion. None of them are actually that morally good.
 
2013-08-25 05:40:37 PM

wesmon: It looks like the amount he gave em he probably couldn't have checked all of it. That is the impression I am getting.


So, you agree with "incredibly irresponsible", then. Good to know.
 
2013-08-25 05:41:56 PM

BizarreMan: Should I have a problem with spying on the UN?
Should I be surprised that the Chinese were doing the same?


Really? Because just a couple of months ago the Obama administration was going on and on about those evil Chinese hackers.
 
2013-08-25 05:44:15 PM

Felgraf: wesmon: It looks like the amount he gave em he probably couldn't have checked all of it. That is the impression I am getting.

So, you agree with "incredibly irresponsible", then. Good to know.


Nope. The idea is it is the responsibility of the media to select what to reveal.

And I like how everyone here is arguing on one hand that this story was already common knowledge and then on the other trying to say it hurts our country. Because I guess Europe and the rest of the world is too stupid to have figured out yet.
 
2013-08-25 05:46:10 PM

wesmon: Felgraf: wesmon: It looks like the amount he gave em he probably couldn't have checked all of it. That is the impression I am getting.

So, you agree with "incredibly irresponsible", then. Good to know.

Nope. The idea is it is the responsibility of the media to select what to reveal.

And I like how everyone here is arguing on one hand that this story was already common knowledge and then on the other trying to say it hurts our country. Because I guess Europe and the rest of the world is too stupid to have figured out yet.


Well, there's a difference between suspicion and proof.

And weird, so you absolve Snowden of any and all capability for what he did with the data he took? I hope you don't give him any props either, then, since he wasn't the one that chose to release the stuff about spying on americans, it was the media selecting what to reveal.

/and before you ask, yes. The detaining of Miranda was bullshiat.
 
2013-08-25 05:48:12 PM

wesmon: I like how everyone here is arguing on one hand that this story was already common knowledge and then on the other trying to say it hurts our country.


This.

Yawn. Everybody knew this. Except for every other nation's spy agencies!
 
2013-08-25 05:48:44 PM

Felgraf: wesmon: Felgraf: wesmon: It looks like the amount he gave em he probably couldn't have checked all of it. That is the impression I am getting.

So, you agree with "incredibly irresponsible", then. Good to know.

Nope. The idea is it is the responsibility of the media to select what to reveal.

And I like how everyone here is arguing on one hand that this story was already common knowledge and then on the other trying to say it hurts our country. Because I guess Europe and the rest of the world is too stupid to have figured out yet.

Well, there's a difference between suspicion and proof.

And weird, so you absolve Snowden of any and all capability for what he did with the data he took? I hope you don't give him any props either, then, since he wasn't the one that chose to release the stuff about spying on americans, it was the media selecting what to reveal.

/and before you ask, yes. The detaining of Miranda was bullshiat.


Snowden was the one who gave the data to the media so of course he gets credit. Ellsburg gets credit for the Pentagon Papers and it was the media that chose what parts to release.
 
2013-08-25 05:53:04 PM
I'm perfectly alright with surveillance. Doesn't bother me one bit if some suit wants to watch me jerk off all day. I only have a problem with all the ridiculous things that are considered illegal that shouldn't be. Stop making it a crime to mind my own business in my home and you can put up a camera wherever you goddamn please.
 
2013-08-25 05:53:11 PM
Sure, keep spying indiscriminately, Government.

Only citizens have rights?
Oh, only  trustworthy citizens have rights?
No one has rights?


Keep stomping; it will surely end well!

i651.photobucket.com
 
2013-08-25 05:54:26 PM
teknishn:

seriously, that this is a shock to anyone is a shock to me.


/ QFT

memecrunch.com
 
2013-08-25 05:54:31 PM
This is called spying. Spying on UN, ok. Spying on ex-girlfriends, not ok.
 
2013-08-25 05:57:39 PM

Esroc: I'm perfectly alright with surveillance unclear about the value of privacy and its essential role in a Democracy.



FIFY

i651.photobucket.com
 
2013-08-25 05:58:18 PM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: TheOnion: I'm ok with the government spying on other countries.  I'm not ok with the government spying on American citizens (without probable cause backed by a warrant from a disinterested judge in accordance with the constitution and applicable state and federal law).

^^^ This.

It's the NSA's job to keep an eye on other countries, even our allies.
I have a problem when it turns it resources on US citizens.


Canadian here - you may not care but I ask myself if my government engages in the same level of espionage. I actually imagine that CSIS and NSA are very much sharing information. Is it ok if Canadians use the collected data?

Personally I will not be using any US based cloud services when other services are reasonably available. Not because I have anything to hide but rather that I do not believe that all countries are engaging in the same level of espionage and there are less creepy options.

I don't begrudge the US for trying to look out for their own interests but there does not appear to be guiding principles as a check and balance, instead it appears more of the ends justifying the means.

These revelations will hurt the US tech sector as more folks change their business models from US based cloud services.
 
2013-08-25 05:59:46 PM

HempHead: AeAe: The United States is as bad as Russia and China spying on its citizens and other governments.

The US is just as good as Russia and China on spying on their citizens.


well.. ok..   Althought you would think the US  should be better that the Russians and China.
 
2013-08-25 06:07:35 PM

b2theory: This is their job! I would be pissed if our signals intelligence agency wasn't doing this.


So very farking much *THIS*.  This is what they *SHOULD* be doing.

/Ex SIGINT weenie.
 
2013-08-25 06:10:58 PM

Bslim: Remind me who the good guys are again.


Everyone thinks they are the good guys.
 
2013-08-25 06:20:41 PM

MNguy: What about US citizens living abroad?


Ask Bradley Chelsea Maning how s/he feels about the NSA spying on people living as a broad.

/got nothin
 
2013-08-25 06:23:21 PM

ecmoRandomNumbers: Are we still pretending that the Chinese are our friends?


Didn't you see that documentary, Battleship(2012), where they helped defeat the alien invaders?
 
2013-08-25 06:23:47 PM
The good thing is that everyone working at NSA is now looking ahead to a few years of prison time. Maybe life sentence or death, depends on which country they are caught.
 
2013-08-25 06:27:16 PM

Nick Nostril: Better dead than Red, amirite?


Beats wetting the bed.
 
2013-08-25 06:27:40 PM

traylor: The good thing is that everyone working at NSA is now looking ahead to a few years of prison time. Maybe life sentence or death, depends on which country they are caught.


What?  It's *NEVER* been illegal to monitor the communications of other nations.  Ever.
 
2013-08-25 06:27:46 PM

Bslim: Remind me who the good guys are again.


Vlad_the_Inaner: ecmoRandomNumbers: Are we still pretending that the Chinese are our friends?

Didn't you see that documentary, Battleship(2012), where they helped defeat the alien invaders?




Decent Godzilla type flick.
 
2013-08-25 06:29:25 PM

dprathbun: Nick Nostril: Better dead than Red, amirite?

Beats wetting the bed.


Squirters are fun and rubber sheets are hot.
 
2013-08-25 06:29:32 PM

b2theory: wesmon: And I would still call it whistleblowing. They have already caught plenty of wrongdoing. It is on the newspapers to not reveal harmful things. They should do the redacting.

And this revelation about the U.N. hardly classifies as traitorous to me.

This revelation? The NSA was acting according to its mandate. Next thing you know we will find out that the DOD is actually an organization of heavily armed US government employees!


And that the FBI investigates crimes within the United States!  It'll be pandelirium!
 
2013-08-25 06:36:06 PM
Those of you defending the NSA for spying within the UN are extremely shortsighted.  The entire purpose of the UN is to make sure another world war doesn't happen, by creating a venue where diplomacy among all countries is encouraged.  Granted, the UN is often less than efficient, and the grandstanding and rhetoric within is usually political and non-productive, but it's still all we've got.  When the NSA or China spy inside the UN, they help create an environment that will eventually convince other countries to speak less openly there, and to put less faith in the UN's diplomatic tools.  As soon as the NSA found out that the encryption systems for the UN were vulnerable, they should have gone to the UN and fixed the problem, and then gone to all the major players, such as China, and said, "Hey, we saw that there was a problem with the encrypted communications at the UN.  We don't know if you knew about this at all, but we fixed it, and here's how.  We hope that if you were concerned about engaging in open dialogue at the UN, that this will help reassure you of the UN's commitment to secure and honest diplomacy."

Unless you're someone who profits from the defense industry, then you should be encouraging the US to do everything to make sure that China emerges as a super-power that is our friend, ally, and economic partner, and not our rival.
 
2013-08-25 06:36:55 PM

StoPPeRmobile: dprathbun: Nick Nostril: Better dead than Red, amirite?

Beats wetting the bed.

Squirters are fun and rubber sheets are hot.


You know who else liked rubber sheets?  Carl Sagan.

/Gravity well demonstration
 
2013-08-25 06:38:01 PM
Lip biting, dick squeezing, peephole monkeys drooling smugly on their super secret listening in decoder rings.  Grow the f*ck up.
 
2013-08-25 06:40:30 PM

positronica: The entire purpose of the UN is to make sure another world war doesn't happen


And  that still didn't keep them from becoming a vestigial circle jerk that helps little and enforces nothing.  It's people in headphones collecting a paycheck.
 
2013-08-25 06:40:37 PM

positronica: Those of you defending the NSA for spying within the UN are extremely shortsighted.  The entire purpose of the UN is to make sure another world war doesn't happen, by creating a venue where diplomacy among all countries is encouraged.  Granted, the UN is often less than efficient, and the grandstanding and rhetoric within is usually political and non-productive, but it's still all we've got.  When the NSA or China spy inside the UN, they help create an environment that will eventually convince other countries to speak less openly there, and to put less faith in the UN's diplomatic tools.  As soon as the NSA found out that the encryption systems for the UN were vulnerable, they should have gone to the UN and fixed the problem, and then gone to all the major players, such as China, and said, "Hey, we saw that there was a problem with the encrypted communications at the UN.  We don't know if you knew about this at all, but we fixed it, and here's how.  We hope that if you were concerned about engaging in open dialogue at the UN, that this will help reassure you of the UN's commitment to secure and honest diplomacy."

Unless you're someone who profits from the defense industry, then you should be encouraging the US to do everything to make sure that China emerges as a super-power that is our friend, ally, and economic partner, and not our rival.


Ah, yes, the long-discredited "Gentlemen don't read each other's mail" theory expressed by Henry L. Stimson, and later repudiated by him.
 
2013-08-25 06:42:35 PM

dittybopper: traylor: The good thing is that everyone working at NSA is now looking ahead to a few years of prison time. Maybe life sentence or death, depends on which country they are caught.

What?  It's *NEVER* been illegal to monitor the communications of other nations.  Ever.



The alleged spying activities are illegal. The US has a long-standing agreement with the UN stipulating that the US refrain from covert operations with regards to the UN's activities.
 
2013-08-25 06:43:32 PM

dittybopper: traylor: The good thing is that everyone working at NSA is now looking ahead to a few years of prison time. Maybe life sentence or death, depends on which country they are caught.

What?  It's *NEVER* been illegal to monitor the communications of other nations.  Ever.


You need to look up what those other nations think about it.
 
2013-08-25 06:45:34 PM

bunner: Lip biting, dick squeezing, peephole monkeys drooling smugly on their super secret listening in decoder rings.  Grow the f*ck up.


I have absolutely *ZERO* problem with our nation listening in on the communications of foreign governments.  It's their farking *JOB* to do so, in order to warn of impending attack.  In fact, I used to do that very job when I was in the US Army.  It is an appropriate, well-accepted, and normal thing for a government to monitor the diplomatic and military communications of other nations.

I would be rightfully pissed if the US government wasn't doing so, because that means it's not doing it's job protecting the United States from potential attack.

What I do have a problem with is the unwarranted monitoring of "United States Persons", and that is where your ire should be directed, not towards the US monitoring diplomatic chatter, which is something it's been doing pretty much ever since the advent of electronic communications well over 100 years ago.
 
2013-08-25 06:48:15 PM

traylor: dittybopper: traylor: The good thing is that everyone working at NSA is now looking ahead to a few years of prison time. Maybe life sentence or death, depends on which country they are caught.

What?  It's *NEVER* been illegal to monitor the communications of other nations.  Ever.

You need to look up what those other nations think about it.


Totally irrelevant, and besides, they do it too.   SIGINT isn't the sole province of the United States.
 
2013-08-25 06:53:32 PM
When do we get all get winnebagos, vacations to Hawaii, and hot FBI girl with Uzi's phone numbers for threatening to tell the public the NSA wants to spy on them?

/I leave message on your service but you do not call
//how times change over 2 decades
 
2013-08-25 07:03:22 PM

dittybopper: In fact, I used to do that very job when I was in the US Army.


Which explains your position.

dittybopper: What I do have a problem with is the unwarranted monitoring of "United States Persons", and that is where your ire should be directed,


It is.  It is also directed at a species that has manged to build an apartment that floats in space but can't mange to make unnecessary the "Dept. of Sneaky Bastards".  Which sneaky bastards sort of comes up moot in that aspect.
 
2013-08-25 07:06:33 PM

dittybopper: traylor: dittybopper: traylor: The good thing is that everyone working at NSA is now looking ahead to a few years of prison time. Maybe life sentence or death, depends on which country they are caught.

What?  It's *NEVER* been illegal to monitor the communications of other nations.  Ever.

You need to look up what those other nations think about it.

Totally irrelevant, and besides, they do it too.   SIGINT isn't the sole province of the United States.


Hint: my comment wasn't about the legality of US citizens spying on non-US citizens while in the US. Change any of the three conditions and you are in problem.
 
2013-08-25 07:10:50 PM
damn clever, those orientals

/ grandpa phrase from way back
 
2013-08-25 07:19:32 PM

wesmon: And I would still call it whistleblowing. They have already caught plenty of wrongdoing. It is on the newspapers to not reveal harmful things. They should do the redacting.

And this revelation about the U.N. hardly classifies as traitorous to me.


Der Spiegel is German, they shouldn't, and won't, redact anything that harms USA.
 
2013-08-25 07:20:56 PM

dittybopper: I have absolutely *ZERO* problem with our nation listening in on the communications of foreign governments. It's their farking *JOB* to do so, in order to warn of impending attack. In fact, I used to do that very job when I was in the US Army. It is an appropriate, well-accepted, and normal thing for a government to monitor the diplomatic and military communications of other nations.


I also have zero problem with foreign governments listening in on our government's communication - it's equally their job to listen in to protect their citizens from potential problems our country can cause.  And, of course, our government has the right to counterintelligence, such as finding out the Chinese are sniffing U.N. traffic too.

Here, the NSA got caught doing its farking job for once, rather than listening in on an employee's husband's mistress, or reading our GMail.
 
2013-08-25 07:26:44 PM

Myria: dittybopper: I have absolutely *ZERO* problem with our nation listening in on the communications of foreign governments. It's their farking *JOB* to do so, in order to warn of impending attack. In fact, I used to do that very job when I was in the US Army. It is an appropriate, well-accepted, and normal thing for a government to monitor the diplomatic and military communications of other nations.

I also have zero problem with foreign governments listening in on our government's communication - it's equally their job to listen in to protect their citizens from potential problems our country can cause.  And, of course, our government has the right to counterintelligence, such as finding out the Chinese are sniffing U.N. traffic too.

Here, the NSA got caught doing its farking job for once, rather than listening in on an employee's husband's mistress, or reading our GMail.


Maybe you missed the part on how spying on the UN is illegal.
 
2013-08-25 07:48:48 PM

mtbhucker: Here, the NSA got caught doing its farking job for once, rather than listening in on an employee's husband's mistress, or reading our GMail.

Maybe you missed the part on how spying on the UN is illegal.


Pppffftt. This is the work the NSA should be doing-spying on the UN, foreign goverments etc. If they did not do this they would be negligent. Spying on American citizens without a warrant is the illegal activity we should be upset about not this.
 
2013-08-25 08:21:20 PM
3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-08-25 08:23:40 PM
The American spook noticed a Beijing spook adding " me Chinese me make joke..." to the subject line of intercepted UN emails
 
2013-08-25 08:27:18 PM

Ex-Texan: [3.bp.blogspot.com image 850x500]


"So f*cking what?"

Someday you might be wanting a favor.  Guess what memory will pop up when you ask.

/'we'll burn that bridge before we come to it"
 
2013-08-25 08:50:37 PM

teknishn: seriously, that this is a shock to anyone is a shock to me.  The super power level countries ALL engage in spying.... PERIOD.  This has been going on forever.


Came here to say this.

Actually, before subby's great revelation, not only did I not know that the NSA spies on people, but I never would have guessed that would spy on foreigners... The REAL shocker? Other countries are spying on us! Oh my God!!!
 
2013-08-25 09:02:59 PM

positronica: Those of you defending the NSA for spying within the UN are extremely shortsighted.  The entire purpose of the UN is to make sure another world war doesn't happen, by creating a venue where diplomacy among all countries is encouraged.  Granted, the UN is often less than efficient, and the grandstanding and rhetoric within is usually political and non-productive, but it's still all we've got.  When the NSA or China spy inside the UN, they help create an environment that will eventually convince other countries to speak less openly there, and to put less faith in the UN's diplomatic tools.  As soon as the NSA found out that the encryption systems for the UN were vulnerable, they should have gone to the UN and fixed the problem, and then gone to all the major players, such as China, and said, "Hey, we saw that there was a problem with the encrypted communications at the UN.  We don't know if you knew about this at all, but we fixed it, and here's how.  We hope that if you were concerned about engaging in open dialogue at the UN, that this will help reassure you of the UN's commitment to secure and honest diplomacy."

Unless you're someone who profits from the defense industry, then you should be encouraging the US to do everything to make sure that China emerges as a super-power that is our friend, ally, and economic partner, and not our rival.


it's adorable that you believe anyone takes the UN seriously and gives a damn what that sideshow has to say. When was the last time the UN did one single thing that prevented war or an atrocity? Where is the UN on stopping Syria? The issues between Israel and the Palestinians?

I couldn't give a damn about spying on the UN, since nothing of value comes out of it. Wake me when the US gets outed bugging the HQ of the Chinese gov't or reading Putin's email.
 
2013-08-25 09:05:42 PM

hasty ambush: mtbhucker: Here, the NSA got caught doing its farking job for once, rather than listening in on an employee's husband's mistress, or reading our GMail.

Maybe you missed the part on how spying on the UN is illegal.

Pppffftt. This is the work the NSA should be doing-spying on the UN, foreign goverments etc. If they did not do this they would be negligent. Spying on American citizens without a warrant is the illegal activity we should be upset about not this.


Well, I think the NSA is doing its job gathering SIGINT from foreign governments (and to some degree trying to prevent leaks of sensitive data to foreign powers, so monitoring inbound traffic as well), but the actual spying is the CIA's job.
 
2013-08-25 09:10:37 PM
You have nothing to fear if you have nothing to hide.
 
2013-08-25 09:28:08 PM

StoPPeRmobile: You have nothing to fear if you have nothing to hide.


Credit card number, expiration date and CID number from the back, please?
 
2013-08-25 09:42:44 PM
Kit Fister
but the actual spying is the CIA's job.

Heh, with all these "the NSA is doing this to furriners" and "the NSA is doing that to furriners" I was wondering if there's any spying left for the CIA to do.
Looks like they have been reduced to torturing, funding terrorists and replacing democratically elected leaders with dictators.
 
2013-08-25 09:44:00 PM

Vlad_the_Inaner: StoPPeRmobile: You have nothing to fear if you have nothing to hide.

Credit card number, expiration date and CID number from the back, please?




That shiat was never hidden in the first place. Slightly obscured in the past, at best, I will admit.
 
2013-08-25 09:49:49 PM

mtbhucker: Maybe you missed the part on how spying on the UN is illegal.


Actually, that's not really true.  it's  just a violation of an agreement.  I'll give you an example:  It's clearly a violation of diplomatic agreements to plant listening devices in the embassies of a nation you have diplomatic relations with.  But it's done by every nation that has the wherewithal to accomplish it nonetheless.  No one has ever been arrested and charged with doing so.  Ever.  Because it's not illegal for a government to monitor the communications of and bug the embassy of other nations.  And that is precisely what happened here.

It's how the game is played.  It's been played this way for hundreds of years:  The Black Chambers of Europe are a perfect example of it.  Diplomatic agreements notwithstanding, any nation that doesn't engage in that sort of behavior is just asking to be walked all over.
 
2013-08-25 09:51:55 PM

The Voice of Doom: Heh, with all these "the NSA is doing this to furriners" and "the NSA is doing that to furriners" I was wondering if there's any spying left for the CIA to do.


The NSA's bailiwick is signals intelligence:  Intercepting the electronic communications.  Planting physical bugs is the bailiwick of the CIA.
 
2013-08-25 09:58:01 PM

spawn73: wesmon: And I would still call it whistleblowing. They have already caught plenty of wrongdoing. It is on the newspapers to not reveal harmful things. They should do the redacting.

And this revelation about the U.N. hardly classifies as traitorous to me.

Der Spiegel is German, they shouldn't, and won't, redact anything that harms USA.


The other thing to consider is that the Bundesnachtrichtendienst does the very same thing, and if the UN were headquartered in Bonn, Munich, or Berlin, you'd be hearing about the BND instead of the NSA, and it would be an American paper doing the revealing.

BTW, I love how the Germans bunch up their words into onebiguberwordofgreatimportance.
 
2013-08-26 12:02:42 AM

LargeCanine: Spying on foreigners is what the NSA is for. Spying on Americans is the unacceptable bit.


....this, I tell ya, brother; you can't have one without the other....
 
2013-08-26 12:55:16 AM
This just in: every nation spies on every other nation. Shocking I know. This is Ric Romero, reporting!
 
2013-08-26 01:59:14 AM
Iam shocked, Shocked that there is spying between countries.
 
2013-08-26 09:26:03 AM

dittybopper: spawn73: wesmon: And I would still call it whistleblowing. They have already caught plenty of wrongdoing. It is on the newspapers to not reveal harmful things. They should do the redacting.

And this revelation about the U.N. hardly classifies as traitorous to me.

Der Spiegel is German, they shouldn't, and won't, redact anything that harms USA.

The other thing to consider is that the Bundesnachtrichtendienst does the very same thing, and if the UN were headquartered in Bonn, Munich, or Berlin, you'd be hearing about the BND instead of the NSA, and it would be an American paper doing the revealing.

BTW, I love how the Germans bunch up their words into onebiguberwordofgreatimportance.


Citation, or wishful thinking?

Well, the American paper thing is obviously wishful thinking. Who the fark would ever give such information to an American paper? But what's your source for Germany spying on their allies and/or the UN?
 
2013-08-26 10:05:55 AM

Oldiron_79: Iam shocked, Shocked that there is spying between countries.




Spying is like maturbation. Everyone does it but don't get caught. We see you masturbating.
 
2013-08-26 10:17:03 AM

Kit Fister: hasty ambush: mtbhucker: Here, the NSA got caught doing its farking job for once, rather than listening in on an employee's husband's mistress, or reading our GMail.

Maybe you missed the part on how spying on the UN is illegal.

Pppffftt. This is the work the NSA should be doing-spying on the UN, foreign goverments etc. If they did not do this they would be negligent. Spying on American citizens without a warrant is the illegal activity we should be upset about not this.

Well, I think the NSA is doing its job gathering SIGINT from foreign governments (and to some degree trying to prevent leaks of sensitive data to foreign powers, so monitoring inbound traffic as well), but the actual spying is the CIA's job.


I expect the CIA to do it also.  THE NSA does a  lot of interpreting of those signals as the CIA would interpret any info it would received form document or listening devices it planted.so I think you can call it spying
 
2013-08-26 10:21:32 AM

hasty ambush: Kit Fister: hasty ambush: mtbhucker: Here, the NSA got caught doing its farking job for once, rather than listening in on an employee's husband's mistress, or reading our GMail.

Maybe you missed the part on how spying on the UN is illegal.

Pppffftt. This is the work the NSA should be doing-spying on the UN, foreign goverments etc. If they did not do this they would be negligent. Spying on American citizens without a warrant is the illegal activity we should be upset about not this.

Well, I think the NSA is doing its job gathering SIGINT from foreign governments (and to some degree trying to prevent leaks of sensitive data to foreign powers, so monitoring inbound traffic as well), but the actual spying is the CIA's job.

I expect the CIA to do it also.  THE NSA does a  lot of interpreting of those signals as the CIA would interpret any info it would received form document or listening devices it planted.so I think you can call it spying




Don't forget them spying on each other.

/tax dollars at work
//i feel safer
 
2013-08-26 11:19:56 AM

StoPPeRmobile: hasty ambush: Kit Fister: hasty ambush: mtbhucker: Here, the NSA got caught doing its farking job for once, rather than listening in on an employee's husband's mistress, or reading our GMail.

Maybe you missed the part on how spying on the UN is illegal.

Pppffftt. This is the work the NSA should be doing-spying on the UN, foreign goverments etc. If they did not do this they would be negligent. Spying on American citizens without a warrant is the illegal activity we should be upset about not this.

Well, I think the NSA is doing its job gathering SIGINT from foreign governments (and to some degree trying to prevent leaks of sensitive data to foreign powers, so monitoring inbound traffic as well), but the actual spying is the CIA's job.

I expect the CIA to do it also.  THE NSA does a  lot of interpreting of those signals as the CIA would interpret any info it would received form document or listening devices it planted.so I think you can call it spying

Don't forget them spying on each other.

/tax dollars at work
//i feel safer




On average, American federal government workers receive 16 percent higher total compensation than do similar workers in other OECD nations, even after differences in the countries' average income levels are taken into account. Yet Biggs points to several factors suggesting that U.S. federal employees are on average less skilled than their foreign counterparts.
 
2013-08-26 11:51:54 AM
Spying on Americans? Never....
The President's Analyst
The best part of the line is when a KGB guy tells a CIA guy something like "every year you become more like us and we become more like you"
How insightful for a movie made in 1967
 
2013-08-26 10:19:18 PM
31.media.tumblr.com
 
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