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(Opposing Views)   Parents are outraged that their elementary school kids are learning about something that'll consume their lives in about two years   (opposingviews.com) divider line 146
    More: Stupid, elementary school kids, Wisconsin, elementary schools, suicides  
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19681 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Aug 2013 at 1:28 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-08-25 04:19:28 PM
Boys have a penis and girls have a vagina.
 
2013-08-25 04:19:49 PM
Sounds like Madison or Milwaukee.

RTFA

Yep.
 
2013-08-25 04:22:13 PM
When my kid is ready for these topics, she can learn about them the same way her parents did.

We already have Degrassi queued in our Watchlist.
 
2013-08-25 04:23:56 PM
I'm not into sheltering precious little snowflakes, but 3rd grade seems a bit early.
Junior high's soon enough.
 
2013-08-25 04:26:41 PM

Emo Jeezus: I'm not into sheltering precious little snowflakes, but 3rd grade seems a bit early.
Junior high's soon enough.


The problem with that is quite a few girls have already had a visit from Auntie Flo before then. Hasn't anyone here seen Carrie? How scary for a girl to go to the bathroom and be all bloody and have no idea why!
 
2013-08-25 04:34:52 PM
You can never be too prepared for masturbation. Should be teaching it in the womb, before the little shiats turn into humans.
 
2013-08-25 04:36:46 PM

haolegirl: Emo Jeezus: I'm not into sheltering precious little snowflakes, but 3rd grade seems a bit early.
Junior high's soon enough.

The problem with that is quite a few girls have already had a visit from Auntie Flo before then. Hasn't anyone here seen Carrie? How scary for a girl to go to the bathroom and be all bloody and have no idea why!


Carrie was in high school. Jr high is old enough.
 
2013-08-25 04:40:06 PM

Anthracite: haolegirl: Emo Jeezus: I'm not into sheltering precious little snowflakes, but 3rd grade seems a bit early.
Junior high's soon enough.

The problem with that is quite a few girls have already had a visit from Auntie Flo before then. Hasn't anyone here seen Carrie? How scary for a girl to go to the bathroom and be all bloody and have no idea why!

Carrie was in high school. Jr high is old enough.


Lol, true. Not all girls are Carrie tho, I used her as a perfect example of what can happen when you leave basic biology up to parents. Not all parents are able to have a rational discussion about human biology with their kids.
 
2013-08-25 04:41:15 PM

spman: In the sense that even children deal with depression, and are aware of the concept of death and the permanence of it, I could see suicide being an issue children might deal with. On the other hand, unless you live in an abusive household with absent or neglectful parents, no normal kids under the age of maybe 12 is dealing with sex and drugs, and by the time they do, fifth grade is going to be nothing but a fleeting memory.


What, do kids around you not watch TV?

The kids need to understand the context of what's happening on the ads and shows they're bombarded with, so they can understand what parts of it are healthy and what are not, rather than just assembling a latent "model to emulate" without any real understanding.

There's nothing wrong, and much very right, about age-appropriate context for adult actions.
 
2013-08-25 04:41:21 PM

haolegirl: Emo Jeezus: I'm not into sheltering precious little snowflakes, but 3rd grade seems a bit early.
Junior high's soon enough.

The problem with that is quite a few girls have already had a visit from Auntie Flo before then. Hasn't anyone here seen Carrie? How scary for a girl to go to the bathroom and be all bloody and have no idea why!


Not too many menstruating 5th graders or below.
 
2013-08-25 04:43:18 PM

Anthracite: So they are cutting silent reading in the classrooms so that they can concentrate on the Core Curriculum federal standards.

And this is a part of them.

As a parent, I want to be able to teach my kids when i think they are ready to be taught stuff like this. I really think schools need to keep with math, english and etc. But leave this to the parents where it belongs.




I cranked way ahead of the rest of my peers because of silent reading and self-paced learning. Always wondered why some people sucked at reading comprehension. Now I know.

shiat ,SRAs were the sheet.

/knows nothing
 
2013-08-25 04:46:35 PM

StoPPeRmobile: God and all your dead friends and relatives are watching you masturbate.


Not to mention that farking cat.
 
2013-08-25 04:51:18 PM

happydude45: haolegirl: Emo Jeezus: I'm not into sheltering precious little snowflakes, but 3rd grade seems a bit early.
Junior high's soon enough.

The problem with that is quite a few girls have already had a visit from Auntie Flo before then. Hasn't anyone here seen Carrie? How scary for a girl to go to the bathroom and be all bloody and have no idea why!

Not too many menstruating 5th graders or below.


Speaking for yourself? I only ask because several of my friends were. Because of sex ed early on, even tho I wasn't menstruating, I had supplies on hand for when they were over and unprepared (no mom in my house, parents were divorced).
 
2013-08-25 04:58:21 PM
Sounds like the kids will be way ahead of the Chinese
 
2013-08-25 05:17:44 PM

archichris: Just let the kids mature normally, they will form comfort levels with various uncomfortable issues in due time.


This cannot be overstated. Learning about drugs and sex by being around it at a very young age and having conditioned anxiety taught by parents with absurdly guilty consciences that never want to discuss the issues will SEVERELY screw you up. My crazy mom did every thing wrong to the point where stigmatizing, shaming, and instilling fear in me about sex couldn't have been more damaging. She couldn't have done a better job if she tried to raise me gay. Now I'm off in limbo being attracted to women but so much anxiety and stress has left me with no concept of emotional bonding, let alone any pleasure to sex.

Porn kept me sane, and pot is slowly helping me recover from all that.

And for God's sake be involved in your childs emotional life. Social isolation and depression killed everything good about me at the tender age of 11 because my mother was too foolish to let me be a kid and have friends. Then in college I drove away everyone parroting her asinine religious beliefs until I finally had a nervous breakdown.
 
2013-08-25 05:22:05 PM

Thurston Howell: /Never too late to be immature csb: every time my wife asks me to macerate fruit (ie. coat them with sugar/wine/etc prior to dessert-making), I love to make her eye-roll by substituting "masturbate" in subsequent follow-up.  "Which fruit did you want me to masturbate?  How long does it have to stay in the fridge to be fully masturbated?" etc.


I'm glad I'm not the only person who's immature enough to do that. Well, mostly I go eat some and tell her I thought she wanted me to masticate it after I made the masturbate joke in front of my mother-in-law out of habit.
 
2013-08-25 05:34:38 PM

Chinchillazilla: The handbook says that students will "be encouraged to talk to parents in order to help them develop their own values and beliefs about masturbation."

Ew.


Has there ever been a kid who was convinced by his parents that masturbation was evil and therefore didn't do it?  My own social circle in school was composed entirely of kids who did it and enjoyed it, and kids who did it and felt guilty about it.  Of course I'm relying on self-report here...
 
2013-08-25 05:50:23 PM

haolegirl: happydude45: haolegirl: Emo Jeezus: I'm not into sheltering precious little snowflakes, but 3rd grade seems a bit early.
Junior high's soon enough.

The problem with that is quite a few girls have already had a visit from Auntie Flo before then. Hasn't anyone here seen Carrie? How scary for a girl to go to the bathroom and be all bloody and have no idea why!

Not too many menstruating 5th graders or below.

Speaking for yourself? I only ask because several of my friends were. Because of sex ed early on, even tho I wasn't menstruating, I had supplies on hand for when they were over and unprepared (no mom in my house, parents were divorced).


Yep, 3 daughters. Living in the same house as mom, they all know what's going on and what to expect. Part of being a household.
 
2013-08-25 06:12:53 PM

happydude45: haolegirl: happydude45: haolegirl: Emo Jeezus: I'm not into sheltering precious little snowflakes, but 3rd grade seems a bit early.
Junior high's soon enough.

The problem with that is quite a few girls have already had a visit from Auntie Flo before then. Hasn't anyone here seen Carrie? How scary for a girl to go to the bathroom and be all bloody and have no idea why!

Not too many menstruating 5th graders or below.

Speaking for yourself? I only ask because several of my friends were. Because of sex ed early on, even tho I wasn't menstruating, I had supplies on hand for when they were over and unprepared (no mom in my house, parents were divorced).

Yep, 3 daughters. Living in the same house as mom, they all know what's going on and what to expect. Part of being a household.


As long as mom is in the household that's awesome. Not all households are like that tho. I got told all kinds of crazy shiat growing up from well meaning but misinformed relatives. I think that's the point of school in the first place, making sure our kids get the most accurate information there is (in an ideal world anyway).
 
2013-08-25 06:26:21 PM

Koodz: Chinchillazilla: The handbook says that students will "be encouraged to talk to parents in order to help them develop their own values and beliefs about masturbation."

Ew.

Has there ever been a kid who was convinced by his parents that masturbation was evil and therefore didn't do it?  My own social circle in school was composed entirely of kids who did it and enjoyed it, and kids who did it and felt guilty about it.  Of course I'm relying on self-report here...


Mormons, perhaps. Their line of thinking on sec and other subjects seems more of a throwback to 19th century attitudes than most other groups in the USA. Who else can claim to have had a kid commit suicide because of the guilt? http://www.affirmation.org/suicide_in fo/sin_and_death_in_mormon_count r y.shtml

I never heard of the guilt thing until I went to a Catholic highschool, and even then it was just from other boys who had merely heard of the issue and didn't understand it themselves. Lucky for us, schools no longer teach 19th century sexual mores. They did some pretty farked up things back then to discourage masturbation, in addition to merely teaching that it was sinful.
 
2013-08-25 06:27:53 PM
*thinking on sex

/farking autocorrect
 
2013-08-25 07:15:02 PM
Anthracite: As a parent, I want to be able to teach my kids when i think they are ready to be taught stuff like this.

That's a bit idealistic, don't you think? Your kids probably need "that talk" about 5 years (or more) before you think they'll need that talk. Little brains absorb a ton of data as they interact with the world, other kids and the internet -- and you can't control every input. First rule of being a kid: never tell you parents everything you know.
 
2013-08-25 07:16:55 PM

spman: Teaching third graders about suicide? Fine, I could see that as being a potential issue they may have to deal with. Masturbation or anything relating to sex? Yeah, these are not issues that are of relevence to eight year olds (or at least SHOULDN'T be). What purpose does it serve to teach it to them? I remember in fifth grade both HIV education and Drug awareness were part of the curriculum. This is a school of suburban white kids, not a minority face to be found. HIV and Drugs were not problems we were likely going to face for many more years, if ever. And if the day ever came that we were confronted with those issues, we sure as hell weren't going to have flashbacks to fifth grade when it came time to decide whether or wear that condom or use that needle.


Yeah. None of your classmates ever had to deal with these issues.

Uh huh.

Don't stop believing. Hold on to that feeling... of being a delusional and bigoted.
 
2013-08-25 07:27:57 PM

WordyGrrl: Anthracite: As a parent, I want to be able to teach my kids when i think they are ready to be taught stuff like this.

That's a bit idealistic, don't you think? Your kids probably need "that talk" about 5 years (or more) before you think they'll need that talk. Little brains absorb a ton of data as they interact with the world, other kids and the internet -- and you can't control every input. First rule of being a kid: never tell you parents everything you know.


Moreover, it's like some people totally forget what it was like to be that age and what they had already seen/heard.
 
2013-08-25 07:28:19 PM
ninotchka: In my late 30s and still don't know anything about anal intercourse

it's when a mommy and daddy love each other very much and are overly neat and organized

/unless, of course, someone else already said this, in that case nevermind
 
2013-08-25 07:31:10 PM

Not_The_Target_Market: Frankie


SHUT THE FARK UP!  THIS IS ABOUT FRANKIE!
 
2013-08-25 07:35:40 PM

Dreamless: WordyGrrl: Anthracite: As a parent, I want to be able to teach my kids when i think they are ready to be taught stuff like this.

That's a bit idealistic, don't you think? Your kids probably need "that talk" about 5 years (or more) before you think they'll need that talk. Little brains absorb a ton of data as they interact with the world, other kids and the internet -- and you can't control every input. First rule of being a kid: never tell you parents everything you know.

Moreover, it's like some people totally forget what it was like to be that age and what they had already seen/heard.


Oh yeah. Your toddler knows a lot more cuss words than you think he/she does -- and knows not to say them around you.
 
2013-08-25 08:26:25 PM

haolegirl: thamike: haolegirl: BMFPitt: Anthracite: As a parent, I want to be able to teach my kids when i think they are ready to be taught stuff like this.

A few months after they turn 30?

Hopefully they get correct information.

Cosmopolitan.

Omg, their gonna tie em up with toilet paper :-o


Cayenne pepper in the drawers, too.
 
2013-08-25 08:33:07 PM

thamike: haolegirl: thamike: haolegirl: BMFPitt: Anthracite: As a parent, I want to be able to teach my kids when i think they are ready to be taught stuff like this.

A few months after they turn 30?

Hopefully they get correct information.

Cosmopolitan.

Omg, their gonna tie em up with toilet paper :-o

Cayenne pepper in the drawers, too.


That's hot!
 
2013-08-25 09:00:15 PM

Anthracite: As a parent, I want to be able to teach my kids when i think they are ready to be taught stuff like this.


As a society, we don't want you to have that much control over other people's lives. Nor do we believe you have the necessary perspective to make the best decision in all cases, even if we assume you are well-intentioned and well-education (which is not a trivial assumption in many cases).

During your child's early life you spent a number of years learning that your child was a helpless being that would die the moment you took your eyes off of them, that your child was incapable of making any rational decision, and that your child is not really a separate human being. Given that training most parents have trouble treating their children as independent humans, seeing that their children live large parts of their lives and make many decisions without help from their parents, or understanding that they are not an effective filter between their children and the world around them. Most parents struggle with that from the time their children start becoming independent until a good decade so later. Even if you personally can make the right choices, it's a safe bet that other parents will not, and both your children (who are members of my society) and society as a whole deserve some intervention from a more neutral party from time to time, to ensure that all children have the information we believe they need.
 
2013-08-25 09:03:56 PM

Anthracite: So they are cutting silent reading in the classrooms so that they can concentrate on the Core Curriculum federal standards.


It only takes about 100 hours -- total lifetime instruction -- to teach children most to read. Almost 100% of every school day is wasted on non-educational tasks; there is plenty of time available over the course of the decade+ that children are required to be in school. So arguments about "cutting time" from this or that are completely unfounded, because lack of time isn't a problem in the first place. It's lack of actual education that's the real problem. I don't think these topics will make any difference in that respect, but I'm quite confident they won't make our children worse at reading.
 
2013-08-25 09:17:55 PM

profplump: Anthracite: As a parent, I want to be able to teach my kids when i think they are ready to be taught stuff like this.

As a society, we don't want you to have that much control over other people's lives. Nor do we believe you have the necessary perspective to make the best decision in all cases, even if we assume you are well-intentioned and well-education (which is not a trivial assumption in many cases).

During your child's early life you spent a number of years learning that your child was a helpless being that would die the moment you took your eyes off of them, that your child was incapable of making any rational decision, and that your child is not really a separate human being. Given that training most parents have trouble treating their children as independent humans, seeing that their children live large parts of their lives and make many decisions without help from their parents, or understanding that they are not an effective filter between their children and the world around them. Most parents struggle with that from the time their children start becoming independent until a good decade so later. Even if you personally can make the right choices, it's a safe bet that other parents will not, and both your children (who are members of my society) and society as a whole deserve some intervention from a more neutral party from time to time, to ensure that all children have the information we believe they need.


You are the exact type of idiot who scares and infuriates me the most - a zealot who presumes to know what is best for other people. Fark you and your assumptions that the state knows what is best for other people's children. I pity any children you may spawn.
 
2013-08-25 09:25:20 PM

kortex: Boys have a penis and girls have a vagina.


Now with video goodness
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31b_70kzfwQ
 
2013-08-25 10:05:09 PM
As long as they aren't teaching them cursive writing.
 
2013-08-25 10:45:19 PM
Sorry, didn't really read article or this thread. But yes, teach children these topics starting at 8 years old. Maybe y'all had a more charmed life than me, but all these things were relevant to 8 year old me, and I'm sure I'm not alone.
 
2013-08-25 11:08:08 PM

profplump: Anthracite: As a parent, I want to be able to teach my kids when i think they are ready to be taught stuff like this.

As a society, we don't want you to have that much control over other people's lives. Nor do we believe you have the necessary perspective to make the best decision in all cases, even if we assume you are well-intentioned and well-education (which is not a trivial assumption in many cases).

During your child's early life you spent a number of years learning that your child was a helpless being that would die the moment you took your eyes off of them, that your child was incapable of making any rational decision, and that your child is not really a separate human being. Given that training most parents have trouble treating their children as independent humans, seeing that their children live large parts of their lives and make many decisions without help from their parents, or understanding that they are not an effective filter between their children and the world around them. Most parents struggle with that from the time their children start becoming independent until a good decade so later. Even if you personally can make the right choices, it's a safe bet that other parents will not, and both your children (who are members of my society) and society as a whole deserve some intervention from a more neutral party from time to time, to ensure that all children have the information we believe they need.


This is what liberals actually believe
 
2013-08-26 12:29:58 AM

Talondel: spman: serial_crusher: spman: Teaching third graders about suicide? Fine, I could see that as being a potential issue they may have to deal with

What kind of horrible childhood did you have?

I think for sex and drugs it's about getting the brainwashing in early.  You're impressionable enough at that age that a police officer coming to your school telling you drugs are bad makes a difference that lasts.

/ My school did DARE in 5th grade.  I knew of a couple kids experimenting with pot in 6th.

In the sense that even children deal with depression, and are aware of the concept of death and the permanence of it, I could see suicide being an issue children might deal with. On the other hand, unless you live in an abusive household with absent or neglectful parents, no normal kids under the age of maybe 12 is dealing with sex and drugs, and by the time they do, fifth grade is going to be nothing but a fleeting memory.

It is not unusual, and certainly not abnormal, for children to masturbate in kindergarten or early elementary school.


Not only that but the sex-ed curriculum described is for sixth graders. These are adolescents. Girls frequently begin menstruation at 11-12 years, some boys begin maturing at that age though not as many. We have had girls who gave birth in seventh grade (conceived in sixth). The new belief in junior highs is that oral and anal sex is somehow 1) not "doing it" and 2) much safer than "real sex. "

Don't know about y'all, but I want my kids to know how to handle themselves in sexual situations. Abstinence doesn't work for the majority of people. Masturbation is normal from infancy and should be treated as such. Kids who are capable of sexual activity (and have the lovely adolescent combo of poor impulse control and intense hornyness) should be taught the dangers of all manner unprotected sex and safer ways to go about it--emphasis on normal urges and best ways to manage. Quit being prudish. Humans are animals, we have sex drives, teach the kids that it is normal and not shameful and this is how we manage so that we don't get pregnant or infected with diseases. It is a really simple concept. I like what that school district is doing!!
 
2013-08-26 12:38:11 AM

haolegirl: Well, some sex ed is certainly relevant at that age (girls can start menstruation at a young age). As long as they divided up the classroom boys/girls and the girls have a female teacher and the boys a male teacher...what's the problem? Masturbation, lots of kids younger than school age do that. Just tell them it's normal, and do that alone and move on to the next topic. What a bunch of prudes!


If it is normal and there is no need to be prudish, why don't we start by NOT dividing the kids according to their sex and NOT worrying about the sex of the instructor. Separating the kids like that only reinforces the idea that there are secrets about sex that have to be kept away from others, perpetuating the "naughtiness" factor and making the act seem more attractive to some and absolutely terrifying to others. We discuss all other aspects of biology in mixed classes--so if you really believe this is normal, natural, not shameful and something we shouldn't be so prudish about--it shod be taught in mixed classes.

Taught all our kids that way. Still have an open discussion policy with them, even though some of their conversations are very difficult. It is worth the discomfort to know we have given them all the tools they need to help them make smart decisions. Had to counteract the Bible Belt mentality as much as possible.....
 
2013-08-26 12:40:45 AM

haolegirl: special20: haolegirl: As long as they divided up the classroom boys/girls and the girls have a female teacher and the boys a male teacher...

I still don't get why boys and girls needed to learn these things separately. I wonder what a society would be like if everyone was just honest and open about sexuality, and sex... like Sweden?

Probably because boys and girls have enough to learn concerning their own bodily functions at that age. I was perfectly ok with my daughters learning about their Aunt Flo at a young age...maybe not so much about nocturnal emissions. Since every family has a different opinion about what they want their kids to know, cover the basics and then tell the kids to follow up at home.


Aunt Flo? Seriously?

/maybe your comfort level isn't as high as you think it is....
 
2013-08-26 12:51:13 AM

WordyGrrl: Anthracite: As a parent, I want to be able to teach my kids when i think they are ready to be taught stuff like this.

That's a bit idealistic, don't you think? Your kids probably need "that talk" about 5 years (or more) before you think they'll need that talk. Little brains absorb a ton of data as they interact with the world, other kids and the internet -- and you can't control every input. First rule of being a kid: never tell you parents everything you know.


And the talk doesn't have to involve anatomical charts and enough detail to make a porn star blush. Example: 4 yr old daughter found a particular way to sit on her rocking horse that made it a LOT more fun; 3 y/o son had just figured out touching himself felt good and couldn't keep his hands out of his pants. The conversation in both cases was similar to this, "I know that feels really good and it is ok to do, but it is something you ought to do in your room where you can have privacy." Tahdah! They may end up on Dr. Phil for some other reason but sexual guilt and repression won't be one....
 
2013-08-26 12:54:09 AM

Hermione_Granger: spman: Teaching third graders about suicide? Fine, I could see that as being a potential issue they may have to deal with. Masturbation or anything relating to sex? Yeah, these are not issues that are of relevence to eight year olds (or at least SHOULDN'T be). What purpose does it serve to teach it to them? I remember in fifth grade both HIV education and Drug awareness were part of the curriculum. This is a school of suburban white kids, not a minority face to be found. HIV and Drugs were not problems we were likely going to face for many more years, if ever. And if the day ever came that we were confronted with those issues, we sure as hell weren't going to have flashbacks to fifth grade when it came time to decide whether or wear that condom or use that needle.

Yeah. None of your classmates ever had to deal with these issues.

Uh huh.

Don't stop believing. Hold on to that feeling... of being a delusional and bigoted.


Money.
 
2013-08-26 12:58:06 AM
Third grade is stupidly early for masturbation and maybe suicide imo. Masturbation doesn't even enter their little worlds naturally til they're about 11 or 12. Derp.
 
2013-08-26 01:16:31 AM

Deedeemarz: haolegirl: special20: haolegirl: As long as they divided up the classroom boys/girls and the girls have a female teacher and the boys a male teacher...

I still don't get why boys and girls needed to learn these things separately. I wonder what a society would be like if everyone was just honest and open about sexuality, and sex... like Sweden?

Probably because boys and girls have enough to learn concerning their own bodily functions at that age. I was perfectly ok with my daughters learning about their Aunt Flo at a young age...maybe not so much about nocturnal emissions. Since every family has a different opinion about what they want their kids to know, cover the basics and then tell the kids to follow up at home.

Aunt Flo? Seriously?

/maybe your comfort level isn't as high as you think it is....


Both my girls still come to me with their sex questions. Oldest just turned 22 and asked me the night she planed to have sex the first time what my thoughts were. Auntie is just a cute expression alot of females use. I work in a pet hospital where some of the customers are uncomfortable using proper names for their pets' body parts for pete's sake! You don't have to call it a "ding-ding" we all say penis.
 
2013-08-26 11:21:35 AM
In my experience 11 seems to be the magic age when a boys dad says, "How did all this porn get on the family computer?" I am judging this based on coworkers and consulting clients.

If your really unlucky it's the magic age where a boys mom says, "What the hell are you doing in here!" When she walks in unexpectedly...
 
2013-08-26 05:42:05 PM
Is masturbation something that really needs to be taught? I recall being 7 or 8 and realizing that touching myself felt really good. Experimenting on my own was all I needed to discover better ways of masturbating. I wonder what the curriculum for this class would be. I can not imagine that the class would entail details on how to masturbate. A more useful class would be on how to masturbate members of the opposite sex as that would be more useful information. Thankfully I had a 20 something female teacher when I was around 11 to instruct me in that subject as well as many others.
 
2013-08-27 12:33:47 AM

life of the sausage party: If your really unlucky it's the magic age where a boys mom says, "What the hell are you doing in here!" When she walks in unexpectedly...


Like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwgvfp3jlvc

/cringe factor 9
 
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