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(Cancer.org)   Stage 4 liver cancer that spread is beginning to spread to bones. Suggestions and experiences for my friend please. His illness is not brought on by drinking or smoking. So sad   (cancer.org) divider line 38
    More: Scary, liver cancers, cirrhosis, lymph nodes, survival rate, illness, smoking, drinks, experiences  
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273 clicks; posted to FarkUs » on 25 Aug 2013 at 11:11 AM (47 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



38 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-08-25 04:43:55 AM
Any suggestions welcome. $$ is not important here.
 
2013-08-25 05:14:23 AM
If it's the liver shutting down that kills you, it doesn't look all that bad.  I watched my brother die of liver failure a few years ago and it definitely appears to be one of the better.  You become so dillusional that you aren't even aware that you're dying.
 
2013-08-25 05:22:10 AM
Metastisis to the bones? Not good. It means the cancer is seating all over his body. chemo and radiation therapy is all I can think of that might help.
 
2013-08-25 05:40:44 AM

sithon: Metastisis to the bones? Not good. It means the cancer is seating all over his body. chemo and radiation therapy is all I can think of that might help.


Once it's in the liver and bones it will probably be in the lymph as well.  Screw chemo, just live happy for as long as possible.
 
2013-08-25 05:42:09 AM
Charter a jet and take him on a trip to the places he's always wanted to see.
 
2013-08-25 06:58:18 AM

Staffist: Charter a jet and take him on a trip to the places he's always wanted to see.


And make sure he pays via credit card.  In fact, I'd start maxing out credit cards and taking out loans now!
 
2013-08-25 06:59:48 AM
Morphine and good hospice care. Sorry for your friend,  Subby.
 
2013-08-25 07:48:23 AM

ginandbacon: Morphine and good hospice care. Sorry for your friend,  Subby.


If the liver is jacked up, they will limit (extremely) the amount of morphine allowed because you need the liver to metabolize it.  We tried to pump my brother full of morphine while he was dying, but they wouldn't give us enough to really knock him out.
 
2013-08-25 07:58:39 AM

CPT Ethanolic: ginandbacon: Morphine and good hospice care. Sorry for your friend,  Subby.

If the liver is jacked up, they will limit (extremely) the amount of morphine allowed because you need the liver to metabolize it.  We tried to pump my brother full of morphine while he was dying, but they wouldn't give us enough to really knock him out.


Well that sucks. What can you do for people in end stage liver cancer? Is there any palliative care that works?
 
2013-08-25 08:04:21 AM

ginandbacon: Well that sucks. What can you do for people in end stage liver cancer? Is there any palliative care that works?


 Once they are admitted to hospice there most likely will not be an autopsy.  You're free to invent your own methods of pain control and possibly euthanasia at that point.  Me personally?  I would be taking up a heroin habit.  Easy to get and quite effective.
 
2013-08-25 08:41:25 AM

ginandbacon: Morphine and good hospice care. Sorry for your friend,  Subby.


No, opiates cap out.  Get him to a state with medical marijuana; it will reduce his opiate need and nausea from chemotherapy.

It'll also keep him closer to how you remember him in the end stages.  Nobody wants to be remembered as a sleepy idiot in a hospital gown with tubes all over.
 
2013-08-25 09:30:12 AM

CPT Ethanolic: ginandbacon: Well that sucks. What can you do for people in end stage liver cancer? Is there any palliative care that works?

 Once they are admitted to hospice there most likely will not be an autopsy.  You're free to invent your own methods of pain control and possibly euthanasia at that point.  Me personally?  I would be taking up a heroin habit.  Easy to get and quite effective.


Sounds about right to me.
 
2013-08-25 09:36:04 AM
I'm so sorry subs. My dad had the same thing. Liver cancer. Stage 4 at diagnosis. They tried to shrink the largest of his tumors (on his spine) with radiation and it didn't help at all. In fact, he seemed a bit worse for wear after that. The chemo/radiation probably isn't going to help your friend at his point and will likely make him decline faster. Pain management and hospice care are the most important things for your friend at this time. The morphine (plus a metric asston of methadone) each day really did make a difference for my dad. They kept him out of pain. He was diagnosed in June and died in September.

Seeing someone you love die of cancer is just brutal and I wouldn't wish it on anybody. I hope you've got some emotional support because you're going to need it. EIP if you have questions or need some internet hugs.
 
2013-08-25 09:43:20 AM
something like this...

Staffist: Charter a jet and take him on a trip to the places he's always wanted to see.

(or something crazy like the first sunrise on every continent...)

and sadly this...

CPT Ethanolic: sithon: Metastisis to the bones? Not good. It means the cancer is seating all over his body. chemo and radiation therapy is all I can think of that might help.

Once it's in the liver and bones it will probably be in the lymph as well.  Screw chemo, just live happy for as long as possible.


Live as much as you can, while you can, friend of subby.
 
2013-08-25 09:48:22 AM
When my husband was in his last days of hospice care (malignant brain tumor), the morpheine wasn't working so they gave him meth for the pain. So there is still hope for pain relief at the end.

Cancer sucks. Sorry for your friend.
 
2013-08-25 09:49:16 AM

ginandbacon: Morphine and good hospice care. Sorry for your friend,  Subby.


This.  Hospice isn't where anyone WANTS to wind up, but I've seen it first hand, they are truly angels of mercy.  It's sad when the doctors basically shrug their shoulders and tell them to go home and await death, but sometimes that's all there is to do.  My brother in law's father passed last year after his cancer (which started as skin cancer) spread to, well everything.  Somebody who totally wasn't me may have supplied him with a certain plant material, which really helped him maintain at least some weight, but at that stage, you really need hospice level painkillers.

Sorry about your friend, I don't think there's anyone on Fark who hasn't watched someone go through the nastiness that is cancer.  Just lost a family friend a few weeks ago, and my daughter's "pa paw" is getting a bone marrow transplant next week.  Fark cancer.
 
2013-08-25 10:15:56 AM
Cancer sucks.

Make sure they have lots of opiate pain killers.
 
2013-08-25 11:04:14 AM
I'm with the fark you all, get the drugs that work legally or illegally. Not really worried about addiction at this point.

Make a bucket list. Do as many as you can.

Party a lot.

Hook up with old friends and relatives.

Make some recordings of whatever - can he sing? Dance? Tell stories? Just reminisce? :)

Get his friends and relatives to talk about the good times, too.
 
2013-08-25 11:34:42 AM
Sorry about your friend.  My dad died of liver cancer.  Try to line up as many good days to go with his 'good' days.  In the last week, dad was only awake a few hours a day.  I think because of the liver shut down when you die there is so much junk in your blood, it feels like pins and needles all over.  He was barely conscious but he was in discomfort from touch just before he died.
 
2013-08-25 11:54:41 AM
Sadly, I've had recent experience with loved ones and cancer.  My takeaway was that the simplest, and most fun things you can do is give them a tour of tastes and textures.  Food id a big farking deal and when someone reaches that stage their tastes change dramatically.  Give him the widest range of flavors imaginable and he'll discover new things that give him pleasure.
 
2013-08-25 11:56:02 AM
One more thing--hookers and blow.  You can never go wrong with hookers and blow.
 
2013-08-25 12:35:58 PM
Your friend might as well throw caution to the wind and take up drinking and smoking now. Stage 4 is not a good stage to be in.

Just enjoy what time you have left with him and do your best to keep him comfortable.
 
2013-08-25 01:07:27 PM
*is
 
2013-08-25 01:29:25 PM
Enjoy your time you have left with him. Cherish what you have.

Tell him to party like it's 1999, as well. Once liver cancer mets like that, there's no hope of long term survival.
 
2013-08-25 01:55:28 PM
Google Phoenix Tears. Apparently cannabis oil high in CBDs has shown some promise against certain types of cancer. What have you got to lose?

Here's the story of one Stage 4 liver patient who is surviving so far: http://www.chrisbeatcancer.com/ed-crushing-stage-four-liver-cancer-wi t h-cannabis-oil/
 
2013-08-25 03:18:36 PM
My FIL passed away last year and I was not super impressed with the family members who decided that since travel is expensive, they would make it out for the funeral but not the bedside hand-holding in hospice.  I would gently (like with a big stick or something) remind all of your friend's loved ones that if they're strapped for cash and only going to travel once, it's way more important to visit with the guy while he lives and breathes than to make it to the funeral.
 
2013-08-25 04:22:56 PM

rosekolodny: My FIL passed away last year and I was not super impressed with the family members who decided that since travel is expensive, they would make it out for the funeral but not the bedside hand-holding in hospice.  I would gently (like with a big stick or something) remind all of your friend's loved ones that if they're strapped for cash and only going to travel once, it's way more important to visit with the guy while he lives and breathes than to make it to the funeral.


Excellent point, bears repeating.
 
2013-08-25 04:36:37 PM

TsuDohNim: Google Phoenix Tears. Apparently cannabis oil high in CBDs has shown some promise against certain types of cancer. What have you got to lose?

Here's the story of one Stage 4 liver patient who is surviving so far: http://www.chrisbeatcancer.com/ed-crushing-stage-four-liver-cancer-wi t h-cannabis-oil/


Bookmarking this, oh yes.

My boyfriend just had surgery to remove a massive rectal tumor...chemo starts in two weeks for liver mets. If the first couple of chemo rounds don't work well enough to get the little bastards in the liver, we're going to Amsterdam for a nice visit with the hash bars.
 
2013-08-25 05:18:06 PM
Bonzo_1116:

Bookmarking this, oh yes.

My boyfriend just had surgery to remove a massive rectal tumor...chemo starts in two weeks for liver mets. If the first couple of chemo rounds don't work well enough to get the little bastards in the liver, we're going to Amsterdam for a nice visit with the hash bars.


Read up on this. I'm not sure of the benefits of just randomly trying to smoke some hash. It's my understanding that it's the cannabidiol levels which add to the effectiveness. There are certain strains bred to have higher CBDs.  I have briefly scanned some of these links, but here's their links to relevant studies http://www.phoenixtearsfoundation.com/scientific-studies/     Alas, none of these have links to studies on liver cancer. Anecdotes is all I can see.

I have heard multiple anecdotes about these. Initially I was skeptical. Now, I know if I were affected by certain cancers, I would move to a medical state and try this as well as any traditional treatments.
 
2013-08-25 05:47:27 PM
Just lost a friend. Stage 4 liver at 1st diagnosis. Seek out comfort and fun for your friend. If I'm in that place someday I hope someone does the same for me.
 
2013-08-25 06:13:24 PM
Give your friend a joint, go watch a sunset or sunrise, and just chat.
/had a good friend die from cancer like that. He didn't smoke, rarely drank, and was a marathon runner.
Make sure your friend share some good times with family. :)
Sucks, but dying is a part of life. We all do it.
 
2013-08-25 06:16:46 PM

SecretAgentWoman: I'm with the fark you all, get the drugs that work legally or illegally. Not really worried about addiction at this point.

Make a bucket list. Do as many as you can.

Party a lot.

Hook up with old friends and relatives.

Make some recordings of whatever - can he sing? Dance? Tell stories? Just reminisce? :)

Get his friends and relatives to talk about the good times, too.


Give your friend a joint, go watch a sunset or sunrise, and just chat.
/had a good friend die from cancer like that. He didn't smoke, rarely drank, and was a marathon runner.
Make sure your friend share some good times with family. :)
Sucks, but dying is a part of life. We all do it.
 
2013-08-25 08:53:40 PM

TsuDohNim: Google Phoenix Tears. Apparently cannabis oil high in CBDs has shown some promise against certain types of cancer. What have you got to lose?

Here's the story of one Stage 4 liver patient who is surviving so far: http://www.chrisbeatcancer.com/ed-crushing-stage-four-liver-cancer-wi t h-cannabis-oil/


Thank you!
 
2013-08-25 09:52:58 PM
My sympathy to you Subby.  My mom died 2 weeks ago from lung cancer.  Cancer sucks hard.

Aside from the advice others said, see to it that he has his estate in order while he still has a mind for things.  If he has family, make sure they know his wishes regarding end of life care: resuscitation, intubation, feed tube.  Sign up for hospice, and see what the options are for home care/cancer support/in facility.  Get his bills itemized (credit cards, mortgage, insurances), so you have an idea for afterwards.  Even things like passwords to online accounts and e-mail should be written down or known by family - ditto for social security number (for funeral home).  Go over his wishes for after his passing: what sort of memorial service (religious, what church/whatever), what songs to be played at the service, even things like what he wants to be buried in.  His family will be overwhelmed by the amount of minutia to deal with.  If he has possessions he wants others to have, and if it doesn't interfere with probate, have him give while alive - again, not sure of the legality of this, so check with a lawyer.  Oh yeah, if he has a will or anything, check with a lawyer before passing for general advice on bills.

If he is doing home care, get the non-emergency numbers for either ambulance service or fire department - if there is a fall at home and he can't get up/assistants can't get him up.  Peapod or other grocery delivery services are good.  Some small, local pharmacies will deliver to homes.  Some scripts are not carried by major chains (liquid morphine and liquid ativan in my mom's case), so find out the local medical supply or specialty pharmacies - again, these guys will often deliver.  Think about what you will need for homecare: shower chair, diapers/butt cream/baby wipes/rubber gloves, a basin for washing up in bed.  Let me repeat: rubber gloves!  Oh my lord, rubber gloves (get the nitrile or vinyl, not latex imo).

If he has pets, make sure they are cared for, and know if there are special requirements for them - if the cat is hyperthyroid and requires meds daily, for instance.

Let him cry/get angry/vent fears - it's ok and normal.  If he must make peace with anyone, do it now because you don't know when it will be.  Have people visit, and if they can't, have them phone.  Talk to him, have visitors talk to him.  Even when it gets towards the end, still talk and remember the good times.  They still hear you, even when they are unconscious (I know my mom heard things, because once in a while she would raise an eyebrow after someone said something, like she acknowledged what was said).  Also, let others help you, since you as a friend are losing someone too.  When he passes, don't be upset or surprised if he goes when the room empties for a moment - it's uncanny how they seem to wait for people to step out, even briefly.

Again, my sympathy goes to you and your friend.
 
2013-08-26 06:19:59 AM

Duck_of_Doom: My sympathy to you Subby.  My mom died 2 weeks ago from lung cancer.  Cancer sucks hard.

Aside from the advice others said, see to it that he has his estate in order while he still has a mind for things.  If he has family, make sure they know his wishes regarding end of life care: resuscitation, intubation, feed tube.  Sign up for hospice, and see what the options are for home care/cancer support/in facility.  Get his bills itemized (credit cards, mortgage, insurances), so you have an idea for afterwards.  Even things like passwords to online accounts and e-mail should be written down or known by family - ditto for social security number (for funeral home).  Go over his wishes for after his passing: what sort of memorial service (religious, what church/whatever), what songs to be played at the service, even things like what he wants to be buried in.  His family will be overwhelmed by the amount of minutia to deal with.  If he has possessions he wants others to have, and if it doesn't interfere with probate, have him give while alive - again, not sure of the legality of this, so check with a lawyer.  Oh yeah, if he has a will or anything, check with a lawyer before passing for general advice on bills.

If he is doing home care, get the non-emergency numbers for either ambulance service or fire department - if there is a fall at home and he can't get up/assistants can't get him up.  Peapod or other grocery delivery services are good.  Some small, local pharmacies will deliver to homes.  Some scripts are not carried by major chains (liquid morphine and liquid ativan in my mom's case), so find out the local medical supply or specialty pharmacies - again, these guys will often deliver.  Think about what you will need for homecare: shower chair, diapers/butt cream/baby wipes/rubber gloves, a basin for washing up in bed.  Let me repeat: rubber gloves!  Oh my lord, rubber gloves (get the nitrile or vinyl, not latex imo).

If he has pets, make sure they are cared for, and k ...


So much THIS.  My mom fought various types of cancer for about 10-12 years.  Her last fight was with pancreatic cancer, discovered at Stage 2.  Her GP missed some unusual levels in her liver enzyme count, and it went unchecked.  Had the Whipple Procedure performed, plus some chemo.  Had a clean bill for a few months, but then it came back hard.  I sat down with her and discussed most everything Duck of Doom mentioned.  Got most of it lined out.

She was on Hospice at the end as well.  It was really bad toward the last week.  She was unresponsive to most any stimuli, and would only wake up for 10-15 minutes at a time.  My brother and I had to dose her with liquid morphine to keep her pain-free.  And then, she just stopped breathing.  No rattle, no twitch, nothing.  Just...stopped.  As peaceful as one could go, I guess.

\5 years this month.  Miss ya Mom!
 
2013-08-26 11:39:18 AM
Cancer sucks.  My mom's in hospice with end stage pancreatic cancer - she'll be going any day now.  Best thing to do for your friend is to arrange for the best pallitative care possible in advance - make sure their wishes to be pain free and comfortable are clearly laid out.  Not just for pain - medical marijuana in the run up to hospice and Adavan for anxiety have made a tremendous difference.  Plan early, have the hard discussions, and it will be easier for your friend.  Good Luck!
 
2013-08-26 01:18:25 PM
Make recordings. Video and audio.  Have him tell really bad jokes. Ask him what he thinks about nearly everything. Ask him to tell you the story about that scar he has on his forehead. And about the time they got lost in that sketchy neighborhood.
 
2013-08-26 06:23:17 PM
Get all his passwords now. Write them down.
 
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