Do you have adblock enabled?
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Nola.com)   "Wait, we can't just do whatever we want with the money we collect for public education?" Louisiana wants to know   (nola.com) divider line 87
    More: Dumbass, Louisiana District, U.S. Government, school vouchers, parochial schools, public education, Louisiana Supreme Court, OK'd, Tangipahoa Parish  
•       •       •

3862 clicks; posted to Politics » on 24 Aug 2013 at 5:37 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



87 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | » | Last | Show all
 
2013-08-24 02:54:34 PM  
How does one expect to keep government out of religion if one consistently injects religion into government?
 
2013-08-24 02:55:26 PM  
Interesting

This definitely is something that the courts need to look at.

Does anyone have prior case law of voucher programs? Is this the first challenged one?
 
2013-08-24 02:59:28 PM  
"Under Federal desegregation orders" is sort of the important part of the tale. This isn't about "better" education, it's about a paler education that even Jindal couldn't pass muster for. Or is it just happy coincidence, kids?
 
2013-08-24 03:01:21 PM  

hubiestubert: "Under Federal desegregation orders" is sort of the important part of the tale. This isn't about "better" education, it's about a paler education that even Jindal couldn't pass muster for. Or is it just happy coincidence, kids?


It's about schools of white Evangelicals subsisting of the evil government.
 
2013-08-24 03:08:26 PM  

hubiestubert: "Under Federal desegregation orders" is sort of the important part of the tale. This isn't about "better" education, it's about a paler education that even Jindal couldn't pass muster for. Or is it just happy coincidence, kids?


I guess you haven't got any idea of who is using most of the vouchers.
 
2013-08-24 03:33:22 PM  

doyner: How does one expect to keep government out of religion if one consistently injects religion into government?


Well... they do want a government to inpose their version of laws based on middle Eastern religion. Just not that religion.
 
2013-08-24 03:40:43 PM  
Anything that delays or inhibits voucher programs is good news.  Voucher programs don't fix the issue of failing schools - they just give the people who are vocal enough about the issue an escape hatch.  Removing the kids who have involved parents from failing schools is just going to concentrate the numbers of kids who don't give a damn because their parents don't give a damn in those schools.

Force everyone to attend the school they're districted for (or pay for a private school without government assistance if you so wish) and you'll see the concerned parents raising more of a stink to actually get those public schools fixed.  We need accountability all around, not only from teachers and administrators, but from students (once they're old enough) and most importantly for parents.  Parents who refuse to communicate with teachers, make sure their kids get to school, or whose kids routinely misbehave at school should be fined by the government, and if nothing is done, have intervention from CPS to address the issues.
 
2013-08-24 03:47:51 PM  

MisterTweak: doyner: How does one expect to keep government out of religion if one consistently injects religion into government?

Well... they do want a government to inpose their version of laws based on middle Eastern religion. Just not that religion.


This might interest you:
Sharia is based on Ten Commandments  http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/panelists/muq tedar_khan/201 0/07/islamic_shariah_is_based_on_the_ten_commandments.html
 
2013-08-24 04:23:29 PM  

simplicimus: MisterTweak: doyner: How does one expect to keep government out of religion if one consistently injects religion into government?

Well... they do want a government to inpose their version of laws based on middle Eastern religion. Just not that religion.

This might interest you:
Sharia is based on Ten Commandments  http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/panelists/muq tedar_khan/201 0/07/islamic_shariah_is_based_on_the_ten_commandments.html


Not to mention that much more importantly, large sections of the world's energy economy are based on Sharia. It's kind of amusing, some people get soooo worked up about "mooslim terrists", who are always "trying to jam sharia down our throats". But lubricate it with some money from a Saudi Aramco subcontractor who slips in a little rider about sharia, and suddenly they can swallow just fine.
 
2013-08-24 04:51:10 PM  
Because if you live in a crummy school district that is failing the community, even though there is no way you can ever pick up and move your family, you are sentenced to 12 years in a failing institution.  No voucher for you poor mom.  Jr. is going to go to a failing school.
 
2013-08-24 05:13:00 PM  

SauronWasFramed: Because if you live in a crummy school district that is failing the community, even though there is no way you can ever pick up and move your family, you are sentenced to 12 years in a failing institution.  No voucher for you poor mom.  Jr. is going to go to a failing school.


Or you can actually hold the administration for said school district accountable, and change things. Of course, looking to add your voice to folks who want their kids to get a private school education on the public dime is maybe easier...
 
2013-08-24 05:14:34 PM  

hubiestubert: SauronWasFramed: Because if you live in a crummy school district that is failing the community, even though there is no way you can ever pick up and move your family, you are sentenced to 12 years in a failing institution.  No voucher for you poor mom.  Jr. is going to go to a failing school.

Or you can actually hold the administration for said school district accountable, and change things. Of course, looking to add your voice to folks who want their kids to get a private school education on the public dime is maybe easier...


Why don't you put your money where your mouth is and come put your kids in school in the Orleans Parish public school system?
 
2013-08-24 05:26:25 PM  

Nabb1: hubiestubert: SauronWasFramed: Because if you live in a crummy school district that is failing the community, even though there is no way you can ever pick up and move your family, you are sentenced to 12 years in a failing institution.  No voucher for you poor mom.  Jr. is going to go to a failing school.

Or you can actually hold the administration for said school district accountable, and change things. Of course, looking to add your voice to folks who want their kids to get a private school education on the public dime is maybe easier...

Why don't you put your money where your mouth is and come put your kids in school in the Orleans Parish public school system?


My daughter is grown, but no I wouldn't. But all this started a long time ago, when private schools popped up everywhere because of desegregation. This voucher system is just a way of diverting public money to fund private schools. Might even hurt the existing private schools as students leave to smaller private schools.
 
2013-08-24 05:29:33 PM  

simplicimus: Nabb1: hubiestubert: SauronWasFramed: Because if you live in a crummy school district that is failing the community, even though there is no way you can ever pick up and move your family, you are sentenced to 12 years in a failing institution.  No voucher for you poor mom.  Jr. is going to go to a failing school.

Or you can actually hold the administration for said school district accountable, and change things. Of course, looking to add your voice to folks who want their kids to get a private school education on the public dime is maybe easier...

Why don't you put your money where your mouth is and come put your kids in school in the Orleans Parish public school system?

My daughter is grown, but no I wouldn't. But all this started a long time ago, when private schools popped up everywhere because of desegregation. This voucher system is just a way of diverting public money to fund private schools. Might even hurt the existing private schools as students leave to smaller private schools.


In Louisiana, it was driven in large part by poorer parents in Orleans Parish. Our schools are so bad that while I am generally to a fan of vouchures, I think it's worth a shot here. By no means do I think it is a solution for every state.
 
2013-08-24 05:38:50 PM  

Nabb1: simplicimus: Nabb1: hubiestubert: SauronWasFramed: Because if you live in a crummy school district that is failing the community, even though there is no way you can ever pick up and move your family, you are sentenced to 12 years in a failing institution.  No voucher for you poor mom.  Jr. is going to go to a failing school.

Or you can actually hold the administration for said school district accountable, and change things. Of course, looking to add your voice to folks who want their kids to get a private school education on the public dime is maybe easier...

Why don't you put your money where your mouth is and come put your kids in school in the Orleans Parish public school system?

My daughter is grown, but no I wouldn't. But all this started a long time ago, when private schools popped up everywhere because of desegregation. This voucher system is just a way of diverting public money to fund private schools. Might even hurt the existing private schools as students leave to smaller private schools.

In Louisiana, it was driven in large part by poorer parents in Orleans Parish. Our schools are so bad that while I am generally to a fan of vouchures, I think it's worth a shot here. By no means do I think it is a solution for every state.


It's not just Orleans Parish, Baton Rouge, Iberville and Assumption parishes are pretty much in the same situation.
 
2013-08-24 05:42:38 PM  
You whites stay right where you are. No you cannot leave a shiatty school system. There must be a proper racial balance.
 
2013-08-24 05:49:40 PM  
!) Defund the public schools

2) Complain about poor school performance

3) PROFIT!
 
2013-08-24 05:50:20 PM  
Rather than providing vouchers to get some kids out of the bad schools, how about fixing the schools? Federal funds should not be limited to helping a few students while leaving the others in trouble.
 
2013-08-24 05:50:58 PM  
Challenging the voucher programs on the idea that they will reverse desegregation attempts seems a bit of an iffy notion to me but the entire idea of defunding the regular public school system in order to pay tax dollars to for-profit, often religiously affiliated privatized schools seems even worse.
 
2013-08-24 05:52:14 PM  

red5ish: Rather than providing vouchers to get some kids out of the bad schools, how about fixing the schools? Federal funds should not be limited to helping a few students while leaving the others in trouble.


This is a state program, not a federal program.
 
2013-08-24 05:54:06 PM  

quatchi: Challenging the voucher programs on the idea that they will reverse desegregation attempts seems a bit of an iffy notion to me but the entire idea of defunding the regular public school system in order to pay tax dollars to for-profit, often religiously affiliated privatized schools seems even worse.


You're free to compare the schools overseen by the Archdiocese of New Orleans to the OPSB. I don't know of any that turn profit, either. Certainly the ones my kids attend don't.
 
2013-08-24 05:54:49 PM  

simplicimus: Nabb1: hubiestubert: SauronWasFramed: Because if you live in a crummy school district that is failing the community, even though there is no way you can ever pick up and move your family, you are sentenced to 12 years in a failing institution.  No voucher for you poor mom.  Jr. is going to go to a failing school.

Or you can actually hold the administration for said school district accountable, and change things. Of course, looking to add your voice to folks who want their kids to get a private school education on the public dime is maybe easier...

Why don't you put your money where your mouth is and come put your kids in school in the Orleans Parish public school system?

My daughter is grown, but no I wouldn't. But all this started a long time ago, when private schools popped up everywhere because of desegregation. This voucher system is just a way of diverting public money to fund private schools. Might even hurt the existing private schools as students leave to smaller private schools.


there's no might to it. it does hurt the public schools as they get paid per student.
 
2013-08-24 05:55:30 PM  

bojon: You whites stay right where you are. No you cannot leave a shiatty school system. There must be a proper racial balance.


In New Orleans, and to a large part Baton Rouge, you assume a condition that doesn't exist "racial balance".
 
2013-08-24 05:58:54 PM  

Hobodeluxe: simplicimus: Nabb1: hubiestubert: SauronWasFramed: Because if you live in a crummy school district that is failing the community, even though there is no way you can ever pick up and move your family, you are sentenced to 12 years in a failing institution.  No voucher for you poor mom.  Jr. is going to go to a failing school.

Or you can actually hold the administration for said school district accountable, and change things. Of course, looking to add your voice to folks who want their kids to get a private school education on the public dime is maybe easier...

Why don't you put your money where your mouth is and come put your kids in school in the Orleans Parish public school system?

My daughter is grown, but no I wouldn't. But all this started a long time ago, when private schools popped up everywhere because of desegregation. This voucher system is just a way of diverting public money to fund private schools. Might even hurt the existing private schools as students leave to smaller private schools.

there's no might to it. it does hurt the public schools as they get paid per student.


And has been hurting them for decades. This is just making a bad situation worse.
 
2013-08-24 06:03:46 PM  

Nabb1: red5ish: Rather than providing vouchers to get some kids out of the bad schools, how about fixing the schools? State Federal funds should not be limited to helping a few students while leaving the others in trouble.

This is a state program, not a federal program.


Public funds, public schools.
 
2013-08-24 06:05:22 PM  

Nabb1: hubiestubert: SauronWasFramed: Because if you live in a crummy school district that is failing the community, even though there is no way you can ever pick up and move your family, you are sentenced to 12 years in a failing institution.  No voucher for you poor mom.  Jr. is going to go to a failing school.

Or you can actually hold the administration for said school district accountable, and change things. Of course, looking to add your voice to folks who want their kids to get a private school education on the public dime is maybe easier...

Why don't you put your money where your mouth is and come put your kids in school in the Orleans Parish public school system?


Where people like you get to elect the school board? You'd have to be a loser of the highest magnitude.
 
2013-08-24 06:05:46 PM  

fusillade762: !) Defund the public schools

2) Complain about poor school performance

3) PROFIT!


Step 1.a.  Bust union.
 
2013-08-24 06:06:05 PM  

red5ish: Nabb1: red5ish: Rather than providing vouchers to get some kids out of the bad schools, how about fixing the schools? State Federal funds should not be limited to helping a few students while leaving the others in trouble.

This is a state program, not a federal program.

Public funds, public schools.


Well, you're free to tell some poor kid in New Orleans he should be stuck in a raspy school and not given the same chance as other kids who can afford to get out of a broken system because your politics are more important.
 
2013-08-24 06:07:09 PM  

red5ish: Rather than providing vouchers to get some kids out of the bad schools, how about fixing the schools? Federal funds should not be limited to helping a few students while leaving the others in trouble.


That might mean helping some kids who aren't deserving. Some oftheir parents might bethose people. YOU know what I mean.
 
2013-08-24 06:08:02 PM  

ghare: Nabb1: hubiestubert: SauronWasFramed: Because if you live in a crummy school district that is failing the community, even though there is no way you can ever pick up and move your family, you are sentenced to 12 years in a failing institution.  No voucher for you poor mom.  Jr. is going to go to a failing school.

Or you can actually hold the administration for said school district accountable, and change things. Of course, looking to add your voice to folks who want their kids to get a private school education on the public dime is maybe easier...

Why don't you put your money where your mouth is and come put your kids in school in the Orleans Parish public school system?

Where people like you get to elect the school board? You'd have to be a loser of the highest magnitude.


Why don't you play hide and go fark yourself you pissant sack of dung? In all this years here you've been nothing but ugly to me you pathetic cumstain on the mattress of humanity.
 
2013-08-24 06:09:12 PM  

ghare: red5ish: Rather than providing vouchers to get some kids out of the bad schools, how about fixing the schools? Federal funds should not be limited to helping a few students while leaving the others in trouble.

That might mean helping some kids who aren't deserving. Some oftheir parents might bethose people. YOU know what I mean.


Most of the recipients of vouchers in Louisiana are poor and black and in New Orleans, you dumb fark.
 
2013-08-24 06:10:47 PM  

simplicimus: Hobodeluxe: simplicimus: Nabb1: hubiestubert: SauronWasFramed: Because if you live in a crummy school district that is failing the community, even though there is no way you can ever pick up and move your family, you are sentenced to 12 years in a failing institution.  No voucher for you poor mom.  Jr. is going to go to a failing school.

Or you can actually hold the administration for said school district accountable, and change things. Of course, looking to add your voice to folks who want their kids to get a private school education on the public dime is maybe easier...

Why don't you put your money where your mouth is and come put your kids in school in the Orleans Parish public school system?

My daughter is grown, but no I wouldn't. But all this started a long time ago, when private schools popped up everywhere because of desegregation. This voucher system is just a way of diverting public money to fund private schools. Might even hurt the existing private schools as students leave to smaller private schools.

there's no might to it. it does hurt the public schools as they get paid per student.

And has been hurting them for decades. This is just making a bad situation worse.


Which is a feature and not a bug. It is looking to keep public schools hurting.

Somehow I managed to survive Beauregard Parish's public school system. Then again, I had a father who gave a rat's butt about my education, and pushed me. DeRidder isn't exactly swimming in cash, but you can help your kids in other ways than looking to exit the public schools...
 
2013-08-24 06:11:56 PM  

Nabb1: quatchi: Challenging the voucher programs on the idea that they will reverse desegregation attempts seems a bit of an iffy notion to me but the entire idea of defunding the regular public school system in order to pay tax dollars to for-profit, often religiously affiliated privatized schools seems even worse.

You're free to compare the schools overseen by the Archdiocese of New Orleans to the OPSB. I don't know of any that turn profit, either. Certainly the ones my kids attend don't.


I actually have a problem with religious schools being paid tax dollars regardless of whether they are running a profit or not.

If their curriculum is secular and inclusive I'm generally okay with them but if they are teaching creationism and the like. Not so much.

The bigger picture here is ALEC pushing school privatization laws in 43 states this year.

Mitt Romney took hundreds of thousands of dollars last election from the industry and they've spent an estimated 40 million dollars lobbying Congress to increase their cut of tax dollars.

They are doing this to maximize profits not out of the goodness of their hearts or from some deep and abiding commitment to education.
 
2013-08-24 06:15:17 PM  

Nabb1: red5ish: Nabb1: red5ish: Rather than providing vouchers to get some kids out of the bad schools, how about fixing the schools? State Federal funds should not be limited to helping a few students while leaving the others in trouble.

This is a state program, not a federal program.

Public funds, public schools.

Well, you're free to tell some poor kid in New Orleans he should be stuck in a raspy school and not given the same chance as other kids who can afford to get out of a broken system because your politics are more important.


A motivated kid with parents who take an active role in his or her education can excel no matter which school.

From my understanding a lot of the big problems started post-Katrina when a ton of Charter Schools were opened up which further diluted the student base in the public schools.  A school with a failing grade does not mean that it's a bad school, the teachers may be dedicated and talented, but if all of their motivated students and students whose parents care have moved them out into charter schools or private schools there's only so much that they can do with who they have left.

The issue is that if the voucher programs keep growing, and the charter schools keep drawing kids away from the regular public schools, eventually more of the public schools are going to shut down and those same kids who everyone tried to get away from are just going to get redistributed through the system, then it all starts over again.

The solution is to start fixing the public schools by fixing the students.  To fix the students you need to fix their home lives, which means educating the parents on their roles in their kids' education, and holding them accountable for it, as well as making sure the social safety nets are well funded so that the parents have the time to spend working with and following up with their kids, and the money to pay for school supplies, nourishing food, and extracurricular opportunities.
 
2013-08-24 06:20:17 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: The solution is to start fixing the public schools by fixing the students. To fix the students you need to fix their home lives, which means educating the parents on their roles in their kids' education, and holding them accountable for it, as well as making sure the social safety nets are well funded so that the parents have the time to spend working with and following up with their kids, and the money to pay for school supplies, nourishing food, and extracurricular opportunities.


zOMG SOOOOOOOOCIALISM!
 
2013-08-24 06:20:58 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: Nabb1: red5ish: Nabb1: red5ish: Rather than providing vouchers to get some kids out of the bad schools, how about fixing the schools? State Federal funds should not be limited to helping a few students while leaving the others in trouble.

This is a state program, not a federal program.

Public funds, public schools.

Well, you're free to tell some poor kid in New Orleans he should be stuck in a raspy school and not given the same chance as other kids who can afford to get out of a broken system because your politics are more important.

A motivated kid with parents who take an active role in his or her education can excel no matter which school.

From my understanding a lot of the big problems started post-Katrina when a ton of Charter Schools were opened up which further diluted the student base in the public schools.  A school with a failing grade does not mean that it's a bad school, the teachers may be dedicated and talented, but if all of their motivated students and students whose parents care have moved them out into charter schools or private schools there's only so much that they can do with who they have left.

The issue is that if the voucher programs keep growing, and the charter schools keep drawing kids away from the regular public schools, eventually more of the public schools are going to shut down and those same kids who everyone tried to get away from are just going to get redistributed through the system, then it all starts over again.

The solution is to start fixing the public schools by fixing the students.  To fix the students you need to fix their home lives, which means educating the parents on their roles in their kids' education, and holding them accountable for it, as well as making sure the social safety nets are well funded so that the parents have the time to spend working with and following up with their kids, and the money to pay for school supplies, nourishing food, and extracurricular opportunities.


I agree with what you are saying, but even kids whose parents have resources are not always actively engaged and you are expecting a lot of poor and working poor mothers, generally, who are also usually single parents. The institutional failings of the OPSB were decades in the making, and will take decades to repair. There's no reason that I can see not to try some alternative in the meantime. I don't think the vouchers should be a permanent solution, but I have no problems with them in the meantime. And to be clear - my family does not qualify financially for vouchers, so I have no personal stake in this outcome.
 
2013-08-24 06:22:23 PM  
"The Democrats are the party that says government will make you smarter, taller, richer, and remove the crabgrass on your lawn. The Republicans are the party that says government doesn't work, and then they get elected and prove it." -- P. J. O'Rourke, Parliament of Whores
 
2013-08-24 06:24:16 PM  

2wolves: fusillade762: !) Defund the public schools

2) Complain about poor school performance

3) PROFIT!

Step 1.a.  Bust union.


You mean "!.a.".
 
2013-08-24 06:25:00 PM  

hubiestubert: simplicimus: Hobodeluxe: simplicimus: Nabb1: hubiestubert: SauronWasFramed: Because if you live in a crummy school district that is failing the community, even though there is no way you can ever pick up and move your family, you are sentenced to 12 years in a failing institution.  No voucher for you poor mom.  Jr. is going to go to a failing school.

Or you can actually hold the administration for said school district accountable, and change things. Of course, looking to add your voice to folks who want their kids to get a private school education on the public dime is maybe easier...

Why don't you put your money where your mouth is and come put your kids in school in the Orleans Parish public school system?

My daughter is grown, but no I wouldn't. But all this started a long time ago, when private schools popped up everywhere because of desegregation. This voucher system is just a way of diverting public money to fund private schools. Might even hurt the existing private schools as students leave to smaller private schools.

there's no might to it. it does hurt the public schools as they get paid per student.

And has been hurting them for decades. This is just making a bad situation worse.

Which is a feature and not a bug. It is looking to keep public schools hurting.

Somehow I managed to survive Beauregard Parish's public school system. Then again, I had a father who gave a rat's butt about my education, and pushed me. DeRidder isn't exactly swimming in cash, but you can help your kids in other ways than looking to exit the public schools...


My nieces survived public school in Houma, even went to the Louisiana School for high school. But New Orleans, which is broken at all levels of government, I'm going to have to side with Nabb1 here. Not the optimal fix, but probably the best that can be made.
 
2013-08-24 06:25:19 PM  

Nabb1: red5ish: Nabb1: red5ish: Rather than providing vouchers to get some kids out of the bad schools, how about fixing the schools? State Federal funds should not be limited to helping a few students while leaving the others in trouble.

This is a state program, not a federal program.

Public funds, public schools.

Well, you're free to tell some poor kid in New Orleans he should be stuck in a raspy school and not given the same chance as other kids who can afford to get out of a broken system because your politics are more important.


My position, while no doubt naive and idealistic, is that the public schools should be a lot better, not something kids need to escape from. I think the solution is to improve the public schools. Diverting funds from improving public schools to getting kids out of public schools and into private schools is counter productive. I admit I have no local knowledge of New Orleans' school system.
 
2013-08-24 06:28:35 PM  

red5ish: Nabb1: red5ish: Nabb1: red5ish: Rather than providing vouchers to get some kids out of the bad schools, how about fixing the schools? State Federal funds should not be limited to helping a few students while leaving the others in trouble.

This is a state program, not a federal program.

Public funds, public schools.

Well, you're free to tell some poor kid in New Orleans he should be stuck in a raspy school and not given the same chance as other kids who can afford to get out of a broken system because your politics are more important.

My position, while no doubt naive and idealistic, is that the public schools should be a lot better, not something kids need to escape from. I think the solution is to improve the public schools. Diverting funds from improving public schools to getting kids out of public schools and into private schools is counter productive. I admit I have no local knowledge of New Orleans' school system.


I think long term that MUST be the goal, but until demonstrable improvement is made, this essentially has to be done. The OPSB was just toxically political before Katrina. The goals of the leadership were far from education.
 
2013-08-24 06:33:16 PM  

Nabb1: I agree with what you are saying, but even kids whose parents have resources are not always actively engaged and you are expecting a lot of poor and working poor mothers, generally, who are also usually single parents. The institutional failings of the OPSB were decades in the making, and will take decades to repair. There's no reason that I can see not to try some alternative in the meantime. I don't think the vouchers should be a permanent solution, but I have no problems with them in the meantime. And to be clear - my family does not qualify financially for vouchers, so I have no personal stake in this outcome.


I realize that poor single parents have a lot troubles to deal with, and in many cases taking an active role in their kids' educations takes a back seat to other things, like making sure there's enough money in the bank account to pay the electric bill that month.  Still, many of them are in that position due to having been failed by the educational system and their own parents, it's a vicious cycle, and one of the main driving forces behind generational poverty.

That's why I wholeheartedly believe that parents need to be held accountable just like teachers, by law if necessary.  Now, that accountability has to come with resources - training on how to help their kids with homework, teaching them how important academic success is for their kids' futures, and financial resources to give them the time to devote to working with their kids and communicating with the teachers, if that means increasing welfare, unemployment, and SNAP payouts, so be it.  Working to raise the minimum wage to make it a living wage would be an even better idea.

The problem I have with vouchers is that they take the heat off of the city and the state to fix the problem.  The parents who care enough get their kids into charter schools, or get vouchers, and once they get theirs, they stop making noise.  A silent majority doesn't get anything done, you need those who are vocal, dedicated, and outraged to lead the charge.  Closing the escape hatch and forcing people to fix the problem from within the failing schools is the only way to fix those schools.
 
2013-08-24 06:35:48 PM  
Howe many schools in how many states are actually "failing"?
 
2013-08-24 06:36:53 PM  

Nabb1: red5ish: Nabb1: red5ish: Nabb1: red5ish: Rather than providing vouchers to get some kids out of the bad schools, how about fixing the schools? State Federal funds should not be limited to helping a few students while leaving the others in trouble.

This is a state program, not a federal program.

Public funds, public schools.

Well, you're free to tell some poor kid in New Orleans he should be stuck in a raspy school and not given the same chance as other kids who can afford to get out of a broken system because your politics are more important.

My position, while no doubt naive and idealistic, is that the public schools should be a lot better, not something kids need to escape from. I think the solution is to improve the public schools. Diverting funds from improving public schools to getting kids out of public schools and into private schools is counter productive. I admit I have no local knowledge of New Orleans' school system.

I think long term that MUST be the goal, but until demonstrable improvement is made, this essentially has to be done. The OPSB was just toxically political before Katrina. The goals of the leadership were far from education.


When I attended Loyola in the early '70 (the University next to Tulane), I spent some time tutoring reading in public schools. I worked with a 3rd grade kid who was illiterate. Poor kid had memorized his reading book, so it looked like he could read, but couldn't read a single word if I pointed one out. OPSB has been broken a long time.
 
2013-08-24 06:43:34 PM  

simplicimus: Nabb1: red5ish: Nabb1: red5ish: Nabb1: red5ish: Rather than providing vouchers to get some kids out of the bad schools, how about fixing the schools? State Federal funds should not be limited to helping a few students while leaving the others in trouble.

This is a state program, not a federal program.

Public funds, public schools.

Well, you're free to tell some poor kid in New Orleans he should be stuck in a raspy school and not given the same chance as other kids who can afford to get out of a broken system because your politics are more important.

My position, while no doubt naive and idealistic, is that the public schools should be a lot better, not something kids need to escape from. I think the solution is to improve the public schools. Diverting funds from improving public schools to getting kids out of public schools and into private schools is counter productive. I admit I have no local knowledge of New Orleans' school system.

I think long term that MUST be the goal, but until demonstrable improvement is made, this essentially has to be done. The OPSB was just toxically political before Katrina. The goals of the leadership were far from education.

When I attended Loyola in the early '70 (the University next to Tulane), I spent some time tutoring reading in public schools. I worked with a 3rd grade kid who was illiterate. Poor kid had memorized his reading book, so it looked like he could read, but couldn't read a single word if I pointed one out. OPSB has been broken a long time.


Yes, I attended Tulane and was occasionally sober enough to notice the other university next door. ;)
 
2013-08-24 06:51:24 PM  

Nabb1: ghare: Nabb1: hubiestubert: SauronWasFramed: Because if you live in a crummy school district that is failing the community, even though there is no way you can ever pick up and move your family, you are sentenced to 12 years in a failing institution.  No voucher for you poor mom.  Jr. is going to go to a failing school.

Or you can actually hold the administration for said school district accountable, and change things. Of course, looking to add your voice to folks who want their kids to get a private school education on the public dime is maybe easier...

Why don't you put your money where your mouth is and come put your kids in school in the Orleans Parish public school system?

Where people like you get to elect the school board? You'd have to be a loser of the highest magnitude.

Why don't you play hide and go fark yourself you pissant sack of dung? In all this years here you've been nothing but ugly to me you pathetic cumstain on the mattress of humanity.


Stop being an asshole. If you haven't run for school board he has a legit point.
 
2013-08-24 06:54:44 PM  

Nabb1: Yes, I attended Tulane and was occasionally sober enough to notice the other university next door. ;)


Hard to miss the Touchdown Jesus statue.
 
2013-08-24 06:59:10 PM  

machodonkeywrestler: Nabb1: ghare: Nabb1: hubiestubert: SauronWasFramed: Because if you live in a crummy school district that is failing the community, even though there is no way you can ever pick up and move your family, you are sentenced to 12 years in a failing institution.  No voucher for you poor mom.  Jr. is going to go to a failing school.

Or you can actually hold the administration for said school district accountable, and change things. Of course, looking to add your voice to folks who want their kids to get a private school education on the public dime is maybe easier...

Why don't you put your money where your mouth is and come put your kids in school in the Orleans Parish public school system?

Where people like you get to elect the school board? You'd have to be a loser of the highest magnitude.

Why don't you play hide and go fark yourself you pissant sack of dung? In all this years here you've been nothing but ugly to me you pathetic cumstain on the mattress of humanity.

Stop being an asshole. If you haven't run for school board he has a legit point.


Him? Please, he's been flinging poo at me for years. What he lacks in intelligence, he makes up for with vitriol. He offers nothing of merit to any discussion. He is a troll of the most pathetic sort,
 
2013-08-24 07:12:08 PM  
Ummm...I may have misread the article, but aren't these vouchers being used to take the disadvantaged and dumb kids out of the public schools and into private schools? And based on the racial makeup of the disadvantaged and dumb kids, it's screwing up the mandated racial makeup of the public schools?

Seems to me the vouchers are being used to weed out the children to be left behind.


Does this action make the public schools better or worse? Seems like they're yanking the bad apples out, and letting the parents do it for them.

I fail to see a religious based tie-in to this at all, but then again, I read the article and didn't go all
"SCHOOL VOUCHERS <FROTH>" on it.
 
2013-08-24 07:24:34 PM  
The problems confronting New Orleans' schools are not entirely unique. Multi-generational poverty, the crack epidemic, funding cuts, white flight, are huge problems where I grew up and attended public schools; the same holds true in many cities in America. It's a national problem and unfortunately the nation is deeply divided right now. There is no easy solution and certainly none is expected in a Fark thread.

The article specifically addresses the voucher program's affect on the requirement to desegregate schools

Federal analysis found that last year's Louisiana vouchers increased racial imbalance in 34 historically segregated public schools in 13 systems. The Justice Department goes so far as to charge that in some of those schools, "the loss of students through the voucher program reversed much of the progress made toward integration."

The article isn't about whether or not there should be a voucher program, but about how the program is increasing racial imbalance in the schools (i.e. by disproportionately paying for white students to go to private schools). If the voucher program was proportionately helping black students go to private schools there would be no law suit.
 
Displayed 50 of 87 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
Advertisement
On Twitter






In Other Media


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report