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(NYPost)   NYPD cops told to stand down by police-union to avoid any lawsuits from stop-and-frisk   (nypost.com) divider line 25
    More: Interesting, Benevolent Association, church members, N.Y.P.D.  
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5803 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Aug 2013 at 5:43 PM (47 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
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2013-08-24 01:37:08 PM
7 votes:
Translation: police told to obey the law.
2013-08-24 02:05:03 PM
3 votes:

cameroncrazy1984: Man, there was a whole lot of fearmongering in there. Apparently, if the cops aren't allowed to do whatever they want, crime will "skyrocket"


I know that area fairly well, not as well as a lifetime resident. I just got back from a trip to Long Island. Looks like they kicked a lot of the people out of the 5 boroughs and onto Long Island. Well, "kicked" via higher living costs and lack of affordable housing.

I'm sure crime will see an uptick, but their scare tactics are noted.

They don't seem to get this stupid little quote:

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

If they have probable cause, by all means. However, skin color is not a probable cause.

We can have zero crime if we just let the police search all of us anytime they want. I'm pretty sure that goes against everything we're supposed to stand for as a country.
2013-08-24 07:36:12 PM
2 votes:
Detaining and frisking someone for weapons requires at a minimum "reasonable suspicion" which must be supported by   "specific and articulable facts"; "taken together with rational inferences from those facts" that there is criminal activity afoot. If LE can't articulate RS, you should be "free to go" about your business.  In most States you don't even have to produce ID or even state your name in less there is Probable Cause to arrest you and or you are arrested.

Just detaining and frisking someone on a "hunch" is a violation of their rights.  Apparently LE who actually have RS can detain you for about 20 minutes.  If someone actually manages to stfu and not incriminate themselves for that 20min they have to cut you loose if you ask if you are free to go.

LE can lie to you, which they do so often they forget that they will eventually be put in check by people who have a clue.


There's video out there of people telling cops to fark off when they start in with the lies and manipulation.  Some of the videos have LE actually chortling and sending people on their way when they demonstrate their basic knowledge of the laws governing police encounters.

I personally appreciate LE for the most part, but consenting to them doing whatever the hell they want is almost as stupid as  letting a criminal do whatever they want to you.
2013-08-24 06:12:52 PM
2 votes:
All that stop and frisk has done is teach thousands of young black men that they will NEVER be trusted, treated fairly, or be given a real chance to get ahead in this world. Basically they are being bullied by the government on a daily basis and suffer all the resulting mental and emotional issues that come with repeated bullying. The entire rest of the nation is slowly moving forward towards young black men realizing they have a shot in this world, but not NYC. NYC held an entire generation of black men back, telling them they were worthless, and teaching them that they may as well become criminals since they were going to be treated like one anyway.
2013-08-24 05:59:47 PM
2 votes:

mexican bathtub cheese: Let citizens do whatever they want and crime will disappear.

Funny how that works.


When every citizen becomes a nail, it is time to get rid of the hammers.
2013-08-24 04:56:15 PM
2 votes:
Several rank-and-file cops said yesterday that they plan on following Lynch's advice rather than risk their careers.

"We are being told not to look for perpetrators of crimes because then we are opening ourselves up to a lawsuit and the job isn't going to represent us," a police source said. "We're being told not to go on fishing expeditions, stopping anyone who looks non-white, sticking our gloved fingers in their anuses and then tasering them if they flinch, stealing any electronics we find in their backpacks, planting a baggie of coke on them if they give us any lip, seizing whatever they've got in their wallets as 'drug money', and harassing them until they acknowledge our dominance. Crime is going to skyrocket if those people can walk down the street without fear."
2013-08-24 03:25:04 PM
2 votes:

cman: TuteTibiImperes: I'm not sure I see a clear line between increased regulations on stop and frisk and no longer being able to investigate crimes.  If someone says they were raped by a black male that shouldn't have meant that you could just go out and start arresting any black male you saw before this ruling, but I don't see how it limits who you can question.

I do, however, think that stop and frisk is a good idea, but having some oversight over the program isn't a bad thing.  From previous reports while it shows that more black and Hispanic people were stopped under the program, the racial breakdown of the stops seemed to line up pretty well with the racial breakdown of suspects and arrestees for violent crime in NYC, and based on that it doesn't seem to unfairly discriminate.

Stop and frisk is inherently racist.

There is no other way around it.

Cops expect black and hispanic people to be thugs

All that matters IS the skin


And ignoring the moral/legal/constitutional angle, stop-and-frisk and racial profiling are ineffective.  So there's that.
2013-08-25 12:17:10 AM
1 votes:
...

See, it should have nothing to do with race.  Any officer who targets someone solely on race should certainly be reprimanded.  I don't really have an issue with the police stopping people for engaging in suspicious activity in public though.  I'm all for privacy rights when it comes to your home and communications.  I believe the police should not be able to enter your home unless they're invited, have a warrant, or hear someone in peril inside and have to intervene.  I'm against warrantless wiretapping and the NSA e-mail snooping.  There's a clear difference between being on your own property and being in public however.

Engaging in suspicious activity is a very broad term open to a great deal of interpretation.  I don't think your interpretation is the same as mine, or that either of ours is the same as a NYC police officer's.  It is incredibly easy to say you saw a suspicious action and it's nearly impossible to prove that you didn't later unless you were somehow magically prepared to be stopped randomly for nothing.  We know this is happening because 80-90% of the stops come up with nothing, meaning that they started with nothing, nothing but perhaps the whims or predispositions of the policemen themselves.  There is no moral high ground on your side, come on over.
2013-08-24 08:14:14 PM
1 votes:

mexican bathtub cheese: Let citizens do whatever they want and crime will disappear.

Funny how that works.


When there is an affluent society, lots of work available, everyone has disposable cash, and there is adherence to moral-social responsibilities to their fellow citizens as well as for themselves, there is considerably LESS crime. It will never disappear.
2013-08-24 08:00:12 PM
1 votes:
Police performed 'Stop-and-Frisk in high-crime areas. These high-crime areas are populated mostly by Blacks and Hispanics, of course more blacks and Hispanics would be stopped...few white people live there. How come crime is not any where near has high in 'white' areas?
2013-08-24 07:52:56 PM
1 votes:
Why wasn't our civil rights leader AG Holder all over this? Oh that's right he is dealing with states who dare try to protect the integrity of their voting systems by imposing the onerous requirement of having a photo ID to vote undermining the ability of undocumented aliens democrats to vote/

Stop and Frisk hardly is worth the attention of an administration that uses the IRS a weapon against political opponents.
2013-08-24 07:29:57 PM
1 votes:

Latinwolf: cameroncrazy1984: Man, there was a whole lot of fearmongering in there. Apparently, if the cops aren't allowed to do whatever they want, crime will "skyrocket"

That's always been a police union tactic, it comes down to "if you down don't let our members be above the law, crime will skyrocket".

2013-08-24 07:29:15 PM
1 votes:

cameroncrazy1984: Man, there was a whole lot of fearmongering in there. Apparently, if the cops aren't allowed to do whatever they want, crime will "skyrocket"


That's always been a police union tactic, it comes down to "if you down let our members be above the law, crime will skyrocket".
2013-08-24 07:10:15 PM
1 votes:
In other words the police union is saying: "Oh, you want us to be accountable for our actions? Nice city you got here... Be a real shame if something were to happen to it... Oh yeah, real shame... /cracks knuckles"
2013-08-24 06:52:28 PM
1 votes:
Waaaah!  I got a slap on the hand for being a jackbooted thug.  Waaah!

I'll show you guys.  I won't do my job even more.

/Google translate from NYPD to slightly older brat
2013-08-24 06:49:44 PM
1 votes:

mrlewish: First all This message came from the "Patrolmen's Benevolent Association"

That means that message has a much force as the Boy Scouts declaring marshall law.

If a police officer changes their behavior based on this message from the "Patrolmen's Benevolent Association" they should be removed from duty and fired.


If their behavior was different from this to begin with, they should have been removed from duty and fired. But then we'd have to replace pretty much the whole NYPD. So I'll settle for getting rid of the ringleaders.
2013-08-24 06:02:59 PM
1 votes:

redmid17: I'm glad that they will refrain from harassing innocent people. Stop and Frisk was an abhorrent method to reduce crime. It was just a blatant excuse to harass minorities and a few white people to round out the numbers.

The quotes in the article make me shake my head though, just mind bogglingly histrionic and stupid.


Welcome to the NYPost.
2013-08-24 05:06:06 PM
1 votes:

TuteTibiImperes: cameroncrazy1984: TuteTibiImperes: The courts have ruled in the past that the right to privacy isn't as great in a public place as it is on your own private property.  They've also ruled that warrantless searches are valid if there's reasonable suspicion.

They've also ruled that skin color is a protected class and as such is not enough for reasonable suspicion.

I agree.  They shouldn't target the stops based on race.  If they're based on suspicious behavior, I don't see a problem.


A bunch of people hanging around together is not "suspicious behavior" either.
2013-08-24 04:07:28 PM
1 votes:

TuteTibiImperes: New York and Chicago are both large multiracial multiethnic cities with huge wealth inequality, a history of gang violence, and strong firearm control legislation. NYC has a crime rate much lower than Chicago, why is that?


NYC has priced a lot of the criminal element out of the city.  It has a growing population and a gigantic tax base.  The city is saturated with cops.  Chicago and NYC have roughly the same amount of officers per capita, but in NYC they're are twice as many cops per square mile as in Chicago.  And New York's gang problems pale in comparison to Chicago's.  Chicago is also more corrupt than NYC, and it's likely there is more ghost payroll in Chicago than in NYC.


FACT: No research has ever proven the effectiveness of New York City's stop-and-frisk regime, and the small number of arrests, summonses, and guns recovered demonstrates that the practice is ineffective. Crime data also do not support the claim that New York City is safer because of the practice. While violent crimes fell 29 percent in New York City from 2001 to 2010, other large cities experienced larger violent crime declines without relying on stop and frisk abuses: 59 percent in Los Angeles, 56 percent in New Orleans, 49 percent in Dallas, and 37 percent in Baltimore.
Stop-and-Frisk abuses corrode trust between the police and communities, which makes everyone less safe. Don't believe us? Then listen to NYPD Commissioner Ray Kelly in 2000: "[A] large reservoir of good will was under construction when I left the Police Department in 1994. It was called community policing. But it was quickly abandoned for tough-sounding rhetoric and dubious stop-and-frisk tactics that sowed new seeds of community mistrust."

Chicago has large swaths of vacant and abandoned housing and other property, less density (less cops per square mile), much of the city is derelict.  NYC doesn't have this problem because of their wealth.


cameroncrazy1984: Fark It: And ignoring the moral/legal/constitutional angle, stop-and-frisk and racial profiling are ineffective.  So there's that.

Yep. I think the stats on the actual stops to arrests ratio is like, a crazy low number.


The hit rate for minorities (which the program targets, Bloomberg has admitted to and defended this in interviews) is actually lower than the hit rate for whites.
2013-08-24 03:46:48 PM
1 votes:

TuteTibiImperes: The courts have ruled in the past that the right to privacy isn't as great in a public place as it is on your own private property.  They've also ruled that warrantless searches are valid if there's reasonable suspicion.


They've also ruled that skin color is a protected class and as such is not enough for reasonable suspicion.
2013-08-24 03:11:36 PM
1 votes:

TuteTibiImperes: I'm not sure I see a clear line between increased regulations on stop and frisk and no longer being able to investigate crimes.  If someone says they were raped by a black male that shouldn't have meant that you could just go out and start arresting any black male you saw before this ruling, but I don't see how it limits who you can question.

I do, however, think that stop and frisk is a good idea, but having some oversight over the program isn't a bad thing.  From previous reports while it shows that more black and Hispanic people were stopped under the program, the racial breakdown of the stops seemed to line up pretty well with the racial breakdown of suspects and arrestees for violent crime in NYC, and based on that it doesn't seem to unfairly discriminate.


Stop and frisk is inherently racist.

There is no other way around it.

Cops expect black and hispanic people to be thugs

All that matters IS the skin
2013-08-24 03:09:11 PM
1 votes:

TuteTibiImperes: I'm not sure I see a clear line between increased regulations on stop and frisk and no longer being able to investigate crimes.  If someone says they were raped by a black male that shouldn't have meant that you could just go out and start arresting any black male you saw before this ruling, but I don't see how it limits who you can question.

I do, however, think that stop and frisk is a good idea, but having some oversight over the program isn't a bad thing.  From previous reports while it shows that more black and Hispanic people were stopped under the program, the racial breakdown of the stops seemed to line up pretty well with the racial breakdown of suspects and arrestees for violent crime in NYC, and based on that it doesn't seem to unfairly discriminate.


From Amendment 4:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects...
2013-08-24 02:15:18 PM
1 votes:

cameroncrazy1984: I'm glad stop-and-frisk is over.


Well, over as in stated policy. But, it'll never end profiling. I'm fairly sure that'll always be with us.
2013-08-24 01:45:09 PM
1 votes:
Man, there was a whole lot of fearmongering in there. Apparently, if the cops aren't allowed to do whatever they want, crime will "skyrocket"
2013-08-24 01:44:44 PM
1 votes:
Basically all the worst parts of the bible.
 
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